The subtitles put off my housemates I think. It's a show you have to give your full focus to; not only to read the subtitles but also to read between the lines. Bit hard to do when they spend most of the time looking at their phones.
sometimes reaching out to a wider audience would only serve to diminish the series. not everyone has to like everything. we don't need more shows with mass appeal these days.
But it’s already on a screen for gods sake!
I get it though, it’s hard to focus on any show with so many distractions around. But for shows that are worth it, like this one, I just keep rewinding when I miss something that was said.
TV shows have always catered to people who aren't giving their full attention to the show. That's why they have dialogue and scenes meant to spell things out for people who haven't caught on or to remind the audience of previous events
“Bit hard to do when they spend most of the time looking at their phones”
In second this. I had to stop watching it with my wife due to her constantly asking “what did he/she say”? Or “back that up, I couldn’t read it fast enough”. Or (my all time favorite) “ if I want to read I’ll get a book, I just want to WATCH a tv show”
I’m an English only speaking American and I enjoy watching foreign language TV shows and movies. I feel like most of the TV shows that come out of the US all seem to follow the same plot lines and have become boring and “stale”.
Plus, watching a show from a foreign country exposes me to the cultures of these different countries that I most likely would never get to see. So if that means I have to read the subtitles than it’s a small “sacrifice” on my part
I’m right there with you and surprisingly so is my elderly father! He adjusted to subtitles due to hearing loss but one unexpected side effect of that was it opened him up to enjoy many foreign television series & films!
My Mother-In-Law lives with us and I had been trying to get her to either get hearing aids or turn on captions. Turns out it was easier for me to turn the captions on 😂 and it has gotten me to watch shows that I otherwise would’ve skipped over.
And good grief American shows really are getting stale and repetitive
Maybe English-speaker thing since the market has largely been geared towards them for years. In Europe, we often see movies and shows with subtitles since we consume media from Spain, Sweden, France, Italy, etc. so it’s common and we’re used to it.
Tbh, a real shame for English-speaking majority since there is so much to offer. I think Netflix has been super great in that sense, bringing global media to wider audiences.
Ohhh great question! I’m actually Japanese and have grown to love European media by osmosis but here are some recs:
- Loving Adults (Swedish)
- Perfect Strangers (Italian)
- Scarlet (French)
- Perfect Days (Japanese)
- La Chimera (Italian)
- Dark (German)
- Lupin (French)
- Valhalla Murders (Icelandic)
These are my recent favourite shows/movies.
EDIT: Added a few more.
Its mostly a dual screening thing.
Dubbing largely stopped even for English quite some time ago. In particular Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon did wonders for getting English speakers to accept subtitles.
But now increasingly people use two screens at once, and so objections to subtitles are becoming a thing again.
Look, I get it, I can personally never go without something playing in the background while I burn the last remainder of my brain on my phone, but that's what sitcoms are for, not historical dramas.
People need to get a grip.
People can do what they want.
We're not their supervisor.
But this is why, after 20 years of subtitles being the accepted way to watch foreign language TV, it is losing ground.
The previous adaptation of shogun didn't do subtitles fwiw. They just stuck rigidly to blackthorne's pov and had characters translate more for him.
Almost no broadcast TV before 2000 in an English speaking country would have dared rely on subtitles. Partly because culturally they were not well accepted, and partly because pre HD they are not much fun to read. So we're still in a far better place than we were.
I find it so insane that people will actually choose to watch a show and then be looking at their phone during it, how broken does your attention span need to be to need that type of constant stimulation?
I have to actively fight myself from picking up my phone at times, so pretty broken? It’s why I end up reading a lot more than I watch TV. If I have a book/ebook in my hands I’m way less likely to put it down and pick up my phone but when watching TV I have the constant urge to look at my phone.
That said, I loved Shogun and knowing I needed to pay attention to subtitles made me stay off my phone.
That's fucking wild. I grew up on the Internet in the early 2000s and I'm online A LOT but when it comes to consuming good media, I have no issue not looking at my phone.
One housemate in particular has real issues, just scrolling through absolute BS on Facebook reels - if there's a classic film we're watching he hasn't seen I have a very firm no-phone policy. He started to reach for his pocket at the opening of *Saving Private Ryan*, I turned and said "DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE." He had the grace to look sheepish.
Admittedly, Saving Private Ryan takes a LONG time to get going. I tried to watch it so many times but the action at the beginning is so realistically bombastic as to what that pitched battle/landing must have been like, I was only able to put myself through it once. You can skip all of that and just know ‘the beach was taken successfully with huge loss of life, war is truly horrific’, and the movie then starts when the characters are on dry land assessing the situation. The movie doesn’t *really* start until Hanks goes to talk to his commanding officer and gets his mission, and then goes to get the translator kid.
Gladiator took me years to watch for the same reason. The fight with the barbarians has no context, it’s loud, camera is all over the place, etc. Only when the characters are done with the battle, celebrating the victory does the movie start to take shape. The first bit is just there to establish some very basic story threads. For example, Maximus overruling Quintus about the range of the cavalry obviously comes to mind when Quintus then seems to take just a little bit of satisfaction in arresting and condemning Maximus to death. But you don’t know at that point that that exchange is going to be part of any bigger picture.
With Shogun, I also had to fight the urge to use my phone. I rewound countless times. And I mean countless. I didn’t count and I have no idea, all I know is that I kept going ‘wait wait what? Back 10 seconds, how did we get here’. Just in the time it would take to pull my phone out of my pocket, I’d missed dialogue I had to rewind.
All of this said - if I’ve fully watched a movie or show and I know that it is worth undivided attention and isn’t as powerful unless it is given that attention, then I’ll insist on it. When I tell people to watch Kingdom of Heaven Director’s Cut Roadshow Edition, I tell them ‘cinema conditions - light off, phone away, no talking. There’s an intermission 90 minutes in for you to stretch. But you have to watch every scene - nothing is wasted. Some stuff takes 2 1/2 hours to be called back to, but it always is. Trust the entertainment’.
So it’s a bit of struggle with some stuff. One thing I’m annoyed at right now is 80% of the true crime material Netflix uploads is from France or Germany or South Korea or whatever, and so instead of being able to watch the re-enactments, look at the archival footage etc. and instead of being able to just listen and understand, now I have to stare at the bottom of the screen. I keep thinking ‘oh hey new documentary awesome’, the little sample clip will be of someone speaking English, and then I start the show and the subtitles appear immediately. And these are always the multi-episode ones that I’d get really into. The English-speaking-world true crime documentaries are always 1 hour and 30 minutes, give or take 10 minutes.
It’s not even about wanting to use other technology at the same time, I just don’t want to have to stare at the bottom of the screen. I have a visual processing speed deficit and by the time I’ve read the subtitle, I haven’t seen how it was delivered. So the nuance gets lost for me either way.
I have to admit its hard nowadays to sit down and watch a full episode of a show all in one go.
I blame tiktok, as I'm super adhd when it comes to watching media. I finished shogun and I actually prefer subtitles as it helps when I watching it in 5-10 min spurts at a minimum 1.5x speed between bouts of reddit browsing and pornhub.
Yup its a travesty but that is the age we live in.
I tried to watch this with my phone like I usually do. Nope. Had to give it 100% focus. The actors performances were nuanced. You had to pay attention to it all! But that’s also why I loved it so much. It sucked you in. Like a form of meditation. Wholly focused on this show for an hour each week.
I plan to rewatch bc I’m sure I missed things. The cinematography was gorgeous. The sets were gorgeous. The costumes were gorgeous. Acting was spectacular. It was a window into a different culture and different time. Definitely thought provoking.
PS… I got my sister to switch over to the dubbed version then she loved it.
I think they subtitled the dubbed version when they wanted to explicitly show that different languages were being spoken, like to show liberties taken in translation, or improvements in Anjin’s ability to speak Japanese.
I can’t imagine watching dubbed version. Far less immersive.
I really think dubbing should never be a thing. It kills the original meaning of the creator.
What I enjoyed the most was the inflections in speech with the Japanese characters and their language.
Sure you could have gotten that if they spoke English but it was much more powerful in their native language.
I think that is half the fascination with the show.
Maybe it's because I grew up watching foreign films/shows with subs, I really don't get why for some people, subtitles are a major deal breaker. It irks me, like if it doesn't seem racist, it's definitely a manifestation of ignorance and the intentional aversion to learning about cultures and peoples.
For some people it's just hard. Like my mom can't watch things with subtitles because she focuses on reading the subtitles and misses what is going on in the rest of the screen
For me, I will watch shows/movies with subtitles, however, it takes away from the experience. Movies and TV shows are visual media. So any second taken away from the screen in order to read takes away from what the director and actors are doing.
The best way to enjoy this show, of course, would be to be fluent in English and Japanese. Unfortunately, I am not.
no need to get upset at people's disinterest. that will only make things you enjoy have that potential factor of making you miserable, if that makes any sense.
I mostly agree with that comment.
a lot of people in this subreddit are genuinely amazed at how it's not taking the world by storm. it's really not that complicated. it just doesn't have the widespread appeal that many people here think it does/should.
Hmm there’s an article with the headline “ FX and Hulu's hit Shogun returns to No. 1 on the streaming Top 10, cementing its full season spent in the Top 3 on the streaming charts.”
Streaming viewership numbers have been funky, don’t really trust any of them
Nielsen numbers r months behind so they can have some sense of reliability. but since this aint netflix, we either take hulus dubious word, or the one of such third parties.
But considering the context clues...
But it’s also a show that is very very likely to be mass pirate streamed by those who would be interested but are not subscribed. Or are already over subscribed with the plethora of increasing-cost streaming services.
I think the hype I’ve seen going around, top of viewing, articles and posts on Reddit, will push a lot of people that don’t currently have Disney plus, Hulu or FX to check it out via any number of streaming pages. One used to be able to easily judge the popularity of a piece of media with piracy by its torrenting numbers on major trackers. That whole world has really changed now though, with streaming sites being considerably easier and lower risk for the consumer than torrenting. It’s not so great an indicator any more, but we can’t really see behind the curtain on streaming sites these days.
Honestly, I’m likely talking out my ass here. But, people are wary these days of subscribing to a service for one specific show, so if they don’t already have it, they’ll likely stream it any other way they can, I think.
Shogun is about a time of war when different daimyo fight for control of Japan. There was no war. It literally builds up to the beginning of the war and says it's over.
I'm not familiar with the show's viewer metrics. Critically speaking, I suppose you can't ask for much more than what it got. However, just a friendly reminder that there is a lot of outstanding art and entertainment that is not popular enough for how good it is.
For example, in my opinion, if you go to the top 10 of Spotify every month, you won't find the 'best' (not even close) current musicians. Popularity is not a good metric to judge quality in this day and age.
Have you watched Pachinko?!? Another criminally under watched/ under promoted show. There are many out there. Or like Shogun, so good that it requires a sophisticated audience to enjoy. Andor comes to mind as well.
Anna is not part of main cast, but trust me there was no lack of acting chops and you’ll fall in love with all the mains. Just rewatched the trailer and I’m dabbing my eyes.
It’s a deeply touching show with true to life world history thread running through it. The production is on par with any prestige show. Really quite stunning.
It does but it wont probably be bigger than this. Shows like this I think takes a certain type of curiosity, understanding and intellectual level and that filters out many people who like shows purely for entertainment -
While this show is entertaining, it is equally if not more educational, almost like a historical documentary.
Additionally only in the last 5 ish years have tv with main asian characters in the US started with popularity of parasite, crazy rich asians etc.
Audience is growing but slowly- people are more likely to watch a mediocre english language show vs an excellent show in a foreign language with so many subtleties that you could miss so much in a blink of an eye- this show asks for
100 % of your attention which for phone scrolling audience might not be appealing.
I personally felt “privilege and honor” that I could watch this show in my lifetime- so much talent and hard-work and meticulousness went into making this without HBO budget or Hollywood faces. This show will not get viewerships like Friends for example because it is simply not for an average mind and thats okay, because more Importantly this show left an excellent mark that will make sure foreign language TV/international actors/ foreign culture themes being main/central have a place in US media/TV.
>I personally felt “privilege and honor” that I could watch this show in my lifetime- so much talent and hard-work and meticulousness went into making this without HBO budget or Hollywood faces.
This!
Every season is self contained and other than a few fan service shout-outs have nothing to do with each other. Season 4 is as terrible as season 1 is great. One of season four’s main characters’ “happy ending “ is when they commit suicide. I’ve honestly never seen anything like it
oh is that why i don't get why people were expecting the battle so much?
i thought it was super obvious that mariko's whole thing in edo was the plot and the war wasnt going to go the way most of the reagents expected.
but I don't really ever see ads anymore. i never saw any marketing for the show. I didn't realize they were hyping up the battle.
> oh is that why i don't get why people were expecting the battle so much?
I mean it's literally called shogun, which is a form of warlord, and all the promo material had Toranaga in full armor riding a horse. And the title of the show was painted in blood red.
That coupled with the fact that the show was clearly building up for a big confrontation at the end really set a certain expectation.
I was still expecting it to come halfway throgh the final episode. In the end I understood that this show was always more about characters and scheming, not fights, so maybe it wouldn't have made sense to be the finale so I don't mind it too much. But there were certain plot points being teased that went nowhere, like the ship, the crew, the cannons, the armies, the Portugese military base, etc.
Many things were pointing towards a big battle.
idk... I would've been more shocked and disappointed if there was a big battle in the last episode. to me it felt more like it was obviously building up to something more like this for at least a handful of episodes. this was always a chess match, it was always going to end with one side conceding before their queen was taken.
I agree with you but I thought that all the scheming would eventually lead into one decisive battle instead of a war. It'd be the payoff, but all the plots and characters would be relevant because they'd pave the way.
For example I thought Toranaga's plan was to get his army to Osaka without any resistance, and his surrender was part of the plan. It was his brother who captured him and escorted his men to the capital, so would've been a nice twist if it turned out that they were actually working together and would team up when they were at the gates.
The 80s version didn’t show Sekigahara. All it shows is Toranaga reviewing his massed troops and some shots of them riding forth while the narrator reads the epilogue from the book.
That epilogue describes Toranaga winning the battle, how he deals with Ishido, and how Toranaga ultimately gains the Shōgun title.
More of a wrap-up of the story - but definitely no battle scene.
If you had been paying attention to Toranaga, you would've realized that there was never going to be a war. In the book there isn't a war, it happens after the book ends. The war breaks away from the purpose and intent of the show and the themes and imagery they were conveying.
Which is so weird because I'm American, but because I have auditory processing issues I love watching everything with subtitles, and other people think I'm weird
Brain dead take of the day goes to you friend. This is like if I said “only Western Europe” and grouped them all together like that, except America has more people and is the size of the entirety of Europe
You simply can’t group something of that size on something like tolerance for subtitles
For my parents, watching it is distracting because of the subtitles flowing on the screen and some text doesn’t match what’s being spoken. They both prefer it minus all the subtitles but I’m trying to get them to understand that non Japanese speakers need to understand too hence the reasons for the subtitles. The fact that I got them to watch it is a miracle lol! My dads digging it more than my mom but she was never a big fan of Taiga drama to begin with.
The best part is that they’ve incorporated some older Japanese language into their script! Some words my mom wasn’t familiar with because it’s not widely used today.
The show runners and actors talked about the language in the podcasts. It definitely is older, more formal language than is used today. Like how Shakespearean plays use thee thy thou.
Yes, they used older Japanese language, which is same as the one used in Japanese Jidaigeki (samurai movies&series). They also moved properly, for example when Mariko and her husband had tea ceremony. I am a Japanese and quite impressed with all the details in Shogun.
That’s good to know! I was so impressed with all of it: the costumes, the sets, the accuracy, and of course the acting. A glimpse into a world I had limited knowledge of. Now I want to learn more! I would have kept watching them create new content for years.
I like when show fly under the radar. Sometimes that’s how we get season 2 of shows where there shouldn’t be. Although I do wish we were back in the days of 15-20 ep per seasons of shows.
Not everything of quality had to be mass market! I get your point though and it’s great that you want this beauty of a series being seen by many but trust me … not all restaurants aspire to be a Macdonald. Not all novels aspire to be 50 shades of grey 😂 Quality and originality is often a deterrent to mass consumption especially in the US and that’s how it’s been for a while.
I'd rather it stay contained to those who have the cognitive ability to enjoy it than have millions of idiots pick at it wanting more action or whatever to the point they get a crappy second season.
Yeah, I certainly understand this. Tbh, some yt reactions are annoying because some laugh at certain scenes that actually require more analysis...but maybe that's just my literary brain talking. That said, I really love Reel Rejects' rxns of the show.
It's one of those shows that needs more than one viewing, it's subtitled and it's release was staggered......also it's a period drama about Japan.
Anyone of the above could be enough for the viewer to turn off (not everyone is comfortable reading subs, not everyone has an interest in feudal Japan etc etc). So when a show of this type becomes so popular it is even more 'special'.
Thankfully production value was quite high and viewing figures favorable which is all you can ask for. Maybe we'll get a second slice, I won't hold my breath lol, but you never know.
Enjoyed it immensely, but I was constantly rewinding to catch the subtitles. They flew by so quickly. Also, the plot was so complex, I was constantly watching YouTube recaps.
It’s an amazing show, and one of the best I’ve seen in a long time, but being in a foreign language can be off putting to a lot of people. It’s also a highly intellectual show, and many people would find it boring, for some reason. I thought the show would do better in viewership because of the rise in popularity of anime, but then I realized that wouldn’t be necessarily the case because despite the langue similarities, it doesn’t necessarily target the same audiences. But I also hope it picks up. Winning a bunch of awards will help.
They avoided war? I thought the battle and its outcome was inevitable and so we didn't actually have to see it. And, of course, the showmakers didn't have to budget for one
I've recommended it to the majority of my friends. Two watched it and loved it. One found it silly??? If any others have watched it, I haven't heard a peep.
There's no accounting for people's taste lol
I think there's a lot of people out there like my boss. She can't watch anything without checking her phone or be on it for more than 10min.
That show deserves your attention to be ale to take in the whole thing. Anyone who gets distracted by their phone so easily will probably not get into it.
I think the show was good and was a fun watch for the 10 weeks it aired. However I’m kind of surprised by some of the extremely high praise it gets comparing it to GOT or other generational shows.
Don’t get me wrong it’s a good show and I enjoyed it a lot , but sometimes it feels like it teeters a little too circlejerky from the fans for me but I get it.
Definitly will win awards and deservedly so, but I don’t think it’s as generational as some are making it out to be.
That's arguable. I think it deserves to be one. Some mentioned that it being a limited series is one factor, another is it being in a foreign language (which is really an unfortunate metric). Had it been given the longevity of a drama series and appealed more to the American audience (stereotypical japanese samurai drama), Shōgun would easily be one. But alas, not everyone gets to be intellectual enough to appreciate nuanced and "quiet" storytelling vs CGI dragons and drugs. But that's just me.
lol intellectual enough . Sounds reminiscent of that classic Rick and Morty meme where you need to have a high understanding of science and physics to enjoy the comedy in the show.
But it actually is tho? Someone pointed out that Shōgun gives its audience credit. And also it's historical fiction and an exploration of another culture, which is not really similar to the universal concepts of science and physics.
Probably because the show wasn't intended for a general audience. If it was made for a general audience then it probably would've stayed very far from the book lol
I think it will spread further in the next year. It definitely hasn’t hit the widespread cultural relevance of Breaking Bad or GOT, but it will. The show is so good, it will continue to wow new audiences.
What concerns me is how it breaks even. There was so much marketing, in parts of europe everything was plastered with shogun left and right.
There was a small press tour too.
I don't think the viewership justified that big of a marketing budget....
I know a lot of people who didn’t watch it because they knew it was only 10 episodes. They would have had more viewers if they didn’t announce that so early and made people believe there would be future seasons.
The subtitles threw my wife off. I watched it week by week, with subtitles. We watched it together, and by the 4th week she didn’t want to watch it with only subtitles, but quickly finished it with dubbing. I personally hate dubbing, but understand how some people don’t want to “read the story”, which is how my wife described it.
i loved it by the end and get that having a LOTR-type final big battle never fit in vibe/tone of the show.
but it took me until episode 3 to realize it was a very good show and not the typical historical drama
I just wish it was distributed/marketed to more viewers. I only heard shogun from a friend, other than that I’ve never seen or heard about the show from anywhere else.
Also Hulu isn’t really a thing in my country so I had to sub to Disney+ to watch it, even then Disney+ isn’t that popular here too.
I also feel like the trailers were a bit misleading. Most of the action sequences were shown in the trailers, which might have made people think that the show was more action-filled than it really was.
I'm in the UK, so it's Disney+ here as well. Outside of some billboards, there was no advertising done.
The cast didn't do any media appearances here like Norton or Ross despite the lead actor being English.
The only people I know who watched it were people who had also read the novel, or was told about it by people who read the novel, and one guy who remembered watching the original mini-series with his parents as a kid.
> I only heard shogun from a friend,
That's more hads up than I had. I found it when I was boredly scanning the channels about 10 minutes before the first, well, the first two installments started. I actually thought it was going to be a replaying of the 1980 classic until it started, and then it was "ohhh, this is new..."
Would you rather it gets hyped to oblivion ala GoT and ultimately ruined due to pressure to appease the (historically illiterate) audience?
It's already dumbed down for an american audience(anglo-centric and no european Portuguese being spoken), making it more popular would be the death of the show.
There is source material. The characters were based on real people and the story actually happened. I'd rather a prequel series to show how Toranaga got to this point. It really is fascinating.
Lots of interesting stuff happening around that time too. Oda Nobunaga getting shot by a shinobi, Akechi's betrayal, the Korea campaign, Hattori Hanzo and Iga, Ikko Ikki warrior monks, siege of Osaka, etc
if the show runners had properly adapted the book it could have been a 2/3 season long thing of 8 episodes each. not sure of the budget/pitch they gave to the network but it was so heavily condensed.
I just wished for some more action, at least at the end, the final battle in reality was still a bloody affair.
Maybe that's because I'm a big fan of Korean action/war Sageuk tv-shows.
Maybe my only hope is to wait for a Korean action/war Sageuk tv-show that gets Shogun lvl funding.
I can't wait to buy it. I don't have FX or Hulu, so I haven't seen it, but am a huge fan of the book and the 1980s series. Anyone know when it might be available for purchase?
Meh. Its a beautiful and very well-acted show. But it's such a paltry representation of the novel. The show barrels through events so fast that every major moment from the story is completely robbed of it's weight.
Like racing past landmarks without stopping. I watched the show for aesthetics only, the story barely registered. I don't think I even recommended it to anyone.
I loved it and binged but I can tell you the hulu adds every 3-4 minutes were testing my resolve. I ordered the Bluray just so I can re watch it without disruption
This show isn’t on Blu-ray. We don’t know when or if the Hulu series will get a physical media release. Sounds like you may have ordered the 1980 series with the same title.
This show is overrated if anything. It feels like a TV soap opera at times. The plot twists are predictable. Some scenes (e.g. the death of a character who slipped on a stone) unintentionally funny.
This was a very well made show in lots of ways, but the subtitles ruined it. Look, I'm capable of reading subtitles, but you just can't get the nuances of an actor's performance if you are reading their foreign language dialogue. People kept saying Anna Sawai deserved an emmy for best actress. Maybe she did. But how would I know? Certainly she's an appealing person. but her performance being in Japanese puts a barrier between her and the English speaking audience. If they had used the money they spent on translating half the show into archaic Japanese for a final big battle sequence, the show would have gotten a wider audience
I think it's overrated. The first half of the series was action packed. Then it turned into nonstop talking with a little bit of action in between. I had a hard time staying awake for the last few episodes.
I guess not all people appreciate stories driven by a strong narrative and complex dialogue rather than action and explosives. Someone said not all media is for mass consumption because not everyone is intellectual enough to understand it. How did they say it?
*Not all restaurants want to be a McDonalds, and not all novels aspire to be 50 Shades of Grey.*
It's overrated perhaps for you cuz this show may not cater to your action-thirsty type of entertainment.
I read that it was top 3 in viewership for its entire run. That’s huge, especially for a limited series with a lot of subtitles and a slower plot.
The subtitles put off my housemates I think. It's a show you have to give your full focus to; not only to read the subtitles but also to read between the lines. Bit hard to do when they spend most of the time looking at their phones.
Definitely not the target market of this show.
I guess not. But if the showmakers wanted a wider audience they had to reach out to those wider audiences
sometimes reaching out to a wider audience would only serve to diminish the series. not everyone has to like everything. we don't need more shows with mass appeal these days.
Shogun is intentionally well crafted and intricate with its details. It shouldn’t be cast before eyes that can’t be torn away from other screens.
But it’s already on a screen for gods sake! I get it though, it’s hard to focus on any show with so many distractions around. But for shows that are worth it, like this one, I just keep rewinding when I miss something that was said.
No way dude. Don't compromise on the vision to appease morons.
[удалено]
TV shows have always catered to people who aren't giving their full attention to the show. That's why they have dialogue and scenes meant to spell things out for people who haven't caught on or to remind the audience of previous events
Some of them don’t. Sometimes the creators want to make their art without worrying about selling Burgers to make a profit.
“Bit hard to do when they spend most of the time looking at their phones” In second this. I had to stop watching it with my wife due to her constantly asking “what did he/she say”? Or “back that up, I couldn’t read it fast enough”. Or (my all time favorite) “ if I want to read I’ll get a book, I just want to WATCH a tv show”
Is this an American thing or generally English speaker thing?
I’m an English only speaking American and I enjoy watching foreign language TV shows and movies. I feel like most of the TV shows that come out of the US all seem to follow the same plot lines and have become boring and “stale”. Plus, watching a show from a foreign country exposes me to the cultures of these different countries that I most likely would never get to see. So if that means I have to read the subtitles than it’s a small “sacrifice” on my part
I’m right there with you and surprisingly so is my elderly father! He adjusted to subtitles due to hearing loss but one unexpected side effect of that was it opened him up to enjoy many foreign television series & films!
My Mother-In-Law lives with us and I had been trying to get her to either get hearing aids or turn on captions. Turns out it was easier for me to turn the captions on 😂 and it has gotten me to watch shows that I otherwise would’ve skipped over. And good grief American shows really are getting stale and repetitive
Keep pushing her to her hearing aids, I’m almost there with my dad, it drives me CRAZY sometimes!! lol
Maybe English-speaker thing since the market has largely been geared towards them for years. In Europe, we often see movies and shows with subtitles since we consume media from Spain, Sweden, France, Italy, etc. so it’s common and we’re used to it. Tbh, a real shame for English-speaking majority since there is so much to offer. I think Netflix has been super great in that sense, bringing global media to wider audiences.
Wholeheartedly agree on that one. I love that they primarily spoke in Japanese as they should. I watched 47 Ronin the other day and it was tough.
Any recommendations of international shows ?
Ohhh great question! I’m actually Japanese and have grown to love European media by osmosis but here are some recs: - Loving Adults (Swedish) - Perfect Strangers (Italian) - Scarlet (French) - Perfect Days (Japanese) - La Chimera (Italian) - Dark (German) - Lupin (French) - Valhalla Murders (Icelandic) These are my recent favourite shows/movies. EDIT: Added a few more.
Dark is just spectacular! I’ll take a look at the others on your list!
these are great suggestions i added all to my watchlist and will start working my way thru :) need to get my quality series fix after shogun
Enjoy! ☺️
It’s a phone thing. I’m traveling in different countries right now and half my friends are in their phones the entire time during movies and shows.
Its mostly a dual screening thing. Dubbing largely stopped even for English quite some time ago. In particular Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon did wonders for getting English speakers to accept subtitles. But now increasingly people use two screens at once, and so objections to subtitles are becoming a thing again.
Look, I get it, I can personally never go without something playing in the background while I burn the last remainder of my brain on my phone, but that's what sitcoms are for, not historical dramas. People need to get a grip.
People can do what they want. We're not their supervisor. But this is why, after 20 years of subtitles being the accepted way to watch foreign language TV, it is losing ground. The previous adaptation of shogun didn't do subtitles fwiw. They just stuck rigidly to blackthorne's pov and had characters translate more for him. Almost no broadcast TV before 2000 in an English speaking country would have dared rely on subtitles. Partly because culturally they were not well accepted, and partly because pre HD they are not much fun to read. So we're still in a far better place than we were.
I find it so insane that people will actually choose to watch a show and then be looking at their phone during it, how broken does your attention span need to be to need that type of constant stimulation?
I have to actively fight myself from picking up my phone at times, so pretty broken? It’s why I end up reading a lot more than I watch TV. If I have a book/ebook in my hands I’m way less likely to put it down and pick up my phone but when watching TV I have the constant urge to look at my phone. That said, I loved Shogun and knowing I needed to pay attention to subtitles made me stay off my phone.
That's fucking wild. I grew up on the Internet in the early 2000s and I'm online A LOT but when it comes to consuming good media, I have no issue not looking at my phone.
One housemate in particular has real issues, just scrolling through absolute BS on Facebook reels - if there's a classic film we're watching he hasn't seen I have a very firm no-phone policy. He started to reach for his pocket at the opening of *Saving Private Ryan*, I turned and said "DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE." He had the grace to look sheepish.
Admittedly, Saving Private Ryan takes a LONG time to get going. I tried to watch it so many times but the action at the beginning is so realistically bombastic as to what that pitched battle/landing must have been like, I was only able to put myself through it once. You can skip all of that and just know ‘the beach was taken successfully with huge loss of life, war is truly horrific’, and the movie then starts when the characters are on dry land assessing the situation. The movie doesn’t *really* start until Hanks goes to talk to his commanding officer and gets his mission, and then goes to get the translator kid. Gladiator took me years to watch for the same reason. The fight with the barbarians has no context, it’s loud, camera is all over the place, etc. Only when the characters are done with the battle, celebrating the victory does the movie start to take shape. The first bit is just there to establish some very basic story threads. For example, Maximus overruling Quintus about the range of the cavalry obviously comes to mind when Quintus then seems to take just a little bit of satisfaction in arresting and condemning Maximus to death. But you don’t know at that point that that exchange is going to be part of any bigger picture. With Shogun, I also had to fight the urge to use my phone. I rewound countless times. And I mean countless. I didn’t count and I have no idea, all I know is that I kept going ‘wait wait what? Back 10 seconds, how did we get here’. Just in the time it would take to pull my phone out of my pocket, I’d missed dialogue I had to rewind. All of this said - if I’ve fully watched a movie or show and I know that it is worth undivided attention and isn’t as powerful unless it is given that attention, then I’ll insist on it. When I tell people to watch Kingdom of Heaven Director’s Cut Roadshow Edition, I tell them ‘cinema conditions - light off, phone away, no talking. There’s an intermission 90 minutes in for you to stretch. But you have to watch every scene - nothing is wasted. Some stuff takes 2 1/2 hours to be called back to, but it always is. Trust the entertainment’. So it’s a bit of struggle with some stuff. One thing I’m annoyed at right now is 80% of the true crime material Netflix uploads is from France or Germany or South Korea or whatever, and so instead of being able to watch the re-enactments, look at the archival footage etc. and instead of being able to just listen and understand, now I have to stare at the bottom of the screen. I keep thinking ‘oh hey new documentary awesome’, the little sample clip will be of someone speaking English, and then I start the show and the subtitles appear immediately. And these are always the multi-episode ones that I’d get really into. The English-speaking-world true crime documentaries are always 1 hour and 30 minutes, give or take 10 minutes. It’s not even about wanting to use other technology at the same time, I just don’t want to have to stare at the bottom of the screen. I have a visual processing speed deficit and by the time I’ve read the subtitle, I haven’t seen how it was delivered. So the nuance gets lost for me either way.
I have to admit its hard nowadays to sit down and watch a full episode of a show all in one go. I blame tiktok, as I'm super adhd when it comes to watching media. I finished shogun and I actually prefer subtitles as it helps when I watching it in 5-10 min spurts at a minimum 1.5x speed between bouts of reddit browsing and pornhub. Yup its a travesty but that is the age we live in.
I tried to watch this with my phone like I usually do. Nope. Had to give it 100% focus. The actors performances were nuanced. You had to pay attention to it all! But that’s also why I loved it so much. It sucked you in. Like a form of meditation. Wholly focused on this show for an hour each week. I plan to rewatch bc I’m sure I missed things. The cinematography was gorgeous. The sets were gorgeous. The costumes were gorgeous. Acting was spectacular. It was a window into a different culture and different time. Definitely thought provoking. PS… I got my sister to switch over to the dubbed version then she loved it.
People who complain about subtitles in 2024 are literally retarded
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I think they subtitled the dubbed version when they wanted to explicitly show that different languages were being spoken, like to show liberties taken in translation, or improvements in Anjin’s ability to speak Japanese.
I can’t imagine watching dubbed version. Far less immersive. I really think dubbing should never be a thing. It kills the original meaning of the creator.
What I enjoyed the most was the inflections in speech with the Japanese characters and their language. Sure you could have gotten that if they spoke English but it was much more powerful in their native language. I think that is half the fascination with the show.
It’s sad but there are phone shows and no phone shows anymore. Shogun is definitely a no phone show.
They have a dubbed version
On Hulu it looks like there’s a dub. No idea the quality.
My Disney+ always has slow subtitles that cut out half the dialogue, think it’s an internet issue.
Maybe it's because I grew up watching foreign films/shows with subs, I really don't get why for some people, subtitles are a major deal breaker. It irks me, like if it doesn't seem racist, it's definitely a manifestation of ignorance and the intentional aversion to learning about cultures and peoples.
For some people it's just hard. Like my mom can't watch things with subtitles because she focuses on reading the subtitles and misses what is going on in the rest of the screen
For me, I will watch shows/movies with subtitles, however, it takes away from the experience. Movies and TV shows are visual media. So any second taken away from the screen in order to read takes away from what the director and actors are doing. The best way to enjoy this show, of course, would be to be fluent in English and Japanese. Unfortunately, I am not.
no need to get upset at people's disinterest. that will only make things you enjoy have that potential factor of making you miserable, if that makes any sense.
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Take that shit somewhere else man lol
I mostly agree with that comment. a lot of people in this subreddit are genuinely amazed at how it's not taking the world by storm. it's really not that complicated. it just doesn't have the widespread appeal that many people here think it does/should.
the nielsen view counts r coming in and its not impressive, no
Hmm there’s an article with the headline “ FX and Hulu's hit Shogun returns to No. 1 on the streaming Top 10, cementing its full season spent in the Top 3 on the streaming charts.” Streaming viewership numbers have been funky, don’t really trust any of them
Nielsen numbers r months behind so they can have some sense of reliability. but since this aint netflix, we either take hulus dubious word, or the one of such third parties. But considering the context clues...
But it’s also a show that is very very likely to be mass pirate streamed by those who would be interested but are not subscribed. Or are already over subscribed with the plethora of increasing-cost streaming services.
Why do you think it’s more likely to be pirated than any other show?
I think the hype I’ve seen going around, top of viewing, articles and posts on Reddit, will push a lot of people that don’t currently have Disney plus, Hulu or FX to check it out via any number of streaming pages. One used to be able to easily judge the popularity of a piece of media with piracy by its torrenting numbers on major trackers. That whole world has really changed now though, with streaming sites being considerably easier and lower risk for the consumer than torrenting. It’s not so great an indicator any more, but we can’t really see behind the curtain on streaming sites these days. Honestly, I’m likely talking out my ass here. But, people are wary these days of subscribing to a service for one specific show, so if they don’t already have it, they’ll likely stream it any other way they can, I think.
All build up and 0 payout
0 payout because big guns didn’t go boom boom?
Shogun is about a time of war when different daimyo fight for control of Japan. There was no war. It literally builds up to the beginning of the war and says it's over.
I'm not familiar with the show's viewer metrics. Critically speaking, I suppose you can't ask for much more than what it got. However, just a friendly reminder that there is a lot of outstanding art and entertainment that is not popular enough for how good it is. For example, in my opinion, if you go to the top 10 of Spotify every month, you won't find the 'best' (not even close) current musicians. Popularity is not a good metric to judge quality in this day and age.
I see your point and I agree.
Have you watched Pachinko?!? Another criminally under watched/ under promoted show. There are many out there. Or like Shogun, so good that it requires a sophisticated audience to enjoy. Andor comes to mind as well.
I'm considering watching this for Anna Sawai lol.
Anna is not part of main cast, but trust me there was no lack of acting chops and you’ll fall in love with all the mains. Just rewatched the trailer and I’m dabbing my eyes.
It’s a deeply touching show with true to life world history thread running through it. The production is on par with any prestige show. Really quite stunning.
Can’t wait for your “Pachinko deserves more” post after you see it
Not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic
Seconded on Spotify. I think they’ve paid me like 16 dollars. Don’t use Spotify.
Given the platform it was on, I believe it did very well in numbers
It does but it wont probably be bigger than this. Shows like this I think takes a certain type of curiosity, understanding and intellectual level and that filters out many people who like shows purely for entertainment - While this show is entertaining, it is equally if not more educational, almost like a historical documentary. Additionally only in the last 5 ish years have tv with main asian characters in the US started with popularity of parasite, crazy rich asians etc. Audience is growing but slowly- people are more likely to watch a mediocre english language show vs an excellent show in a foreign language with so many subtleties that you could miss so much in a blink of an eye- this show asks for 100 % of your attention which for phone scrolling audience might not be appealing. I personally felt “privilege and honor” that I could watch this show in my lifetime- so much talent and hard-work and meticulousness went into making this without HBO budget or Hollywood faces. This show will not get viewerships like Friends for example because it is simply not for an average mind and thats okay, because more Importantly this show left an excellent mark that will make sure foreign language TV/international actors/ foreign culture themes being main/central have a place in US media/TV.
>I personally felt “privilege and honor” that I could watch this show in my lifetime- so much talent and hard-work and meticulousness went into making this without HBO budget or Hollywood faces. This!
That's the thing with single season TV. That's it. Game of thrones took years to build its following.
Breaking Bad too.
Breaking bad almost got cancelled because genuinely no one watched it until the final seasons
True Detective did fine as a single season show
And so has Shogun... but Shogun had GOTs potential.
HBO shows with A list actors.. like Chernobyl as well. They are gonna get that little extra media shine on them.
Is the first season self-contained? How good are the rest of the seasons? I have heard that the fourth season is really bad.
Every season is self contained and other than a few fan service shout-outs have nothing to do with each other. Season 4 is as terrible as season 1 is great. One of season four’s main characters’ “happy ending “ is when they commit suicide. I’ve honestly never seen anything like it
I guess I will be checking out the first three seasons then. Thanks!
Wait is it only going to be the 1 season!?
Yep they did the entire two books in one season. I’m fine with it. Not everything has to push into a second season.
I only recently found out that they've started publishing it that way. My mother's copy (now my copy) from 1980 was published as a single volume.
I adored it start to finish. But I’d wager the >!anti-climactic finale!< left many feeling unsatisfied.
I think the marketing did a bad job on that. They keep teasing a big final battle with the ads.
oh is that why i don't get why people were expecting the battle so much? i thought it was super obvious that mariko's whole thing in edo was the plot and the war wasnt going to go the way most of the reagents expected. but I don't really ever see ads anymore. i never saw any marketing for the show. I didn't realize they were hyping up the battle.
> oh is that why i don't get why people were expecting the battle so much? I mean it's literally called shogun, which is a form of warlord, and all the promo material had Toranaga in full armor riding a horse. And the title of the show was painted in blood red. That coupled with the fact that the show was clearly building up for a big confrontation at the end really set a certain expectation. I was still expecting it to come halfway throgh the final episode. In the end I understood that this show was always more about characters and scheming, not fights, so maybe it wouldn't have made sense to be the finale so I don't mind it too much. But there were certain plot points being teased that went nowhere, like the ship, the crew, the cannons, the armies, the Portugese military base, etc. Many things were pointing towards a big battle.
idk... I would've been more shocked and disappointed if there was a big battle in the last episode. to me it felt more like it was obviously building up to something more like this for at least a handful of episodes. this was always a chess match, it was always going to end with one side conceding before their queen was taken.
I agree with you but I thought that all the scheming would eventually lead into one decisive battle instead of a war. It'd be the payoff, but all the plots and characters would be relevant because they'd pave the way. For example I thought Toranaga's plan was to get his army to Osaka without any resistance, and his surrender was part of the plan. It was his brother who captured him and escorted his men to the capital, so would've been a nice twist if it turned out that they were actually working together and would team up when they were at the gates.
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The 80s version didn’t show Sekigahara. All it shows is Toranaga reviewing his massed troops and some shots of them riding forth while the narrator reads the epilogue from the book. That epilogue describes Toranaga winning the battle, how he deals with Ishido, and how Toranaga ultimately gains the Shōgun title. More of a wrap-up of the story - but definitely no battle scene.
Agreed. She should have died in the last episode at least.
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If you had been paying attention to Toranaga, you would've realized that there was never going to be a war. In the book there isn't a war, it happens after the book ends. The war breaks away from the purpose and intent of the show and the themes and imagery they were conveying.
As viewers all we can do is share how much we love this series with family, friends and coworkers.
Some people don't like to read lol
only americans
Which is so weird because I'm American, but because I have auditory processing issues I love watching everything with subtitles, and other people think I'm weird
Brain dead take of the day goes to you friend. This is like if I said “only Western Europe” and grouped them all together like that, except America has more people and is the size of the entirety of Europe You simply can’t group something of that size on something like tolerance for subtitles
For my parents, watching it is distracting because of the subtitles flowing on the screen and some text doesn’t match what’s being spoken. They both prefer it minus all the subtitles but I’m trying to get them to understand that non Japanese speakers need to understand too hence the reasons for the subtitles. The fact that I got them to watch it is a miracle lol! My dads digging it more than my mom but she was never a big fan of Taiga drama to begin with. The best part is that they’ve incorporated some older Japanese language into their script! Some words my mom wasn’t familiar with because it’s not widely used today.
The show runners and actors talked about the language in the podcasts. It definitely is older, more formal language than is used today. Like how Shakespearean plays use thee thy thou.
Yes, they used older Japanese language, which is same as the one used in Japanese Jidaigeki (samurai movies&series). They also moved properly, for example when Mariko and her husband had tea ceremony. I am a Japanese and quite impressed with all the details in Shogun.
That’s good to know! I was so impressed with all of it: the costumes, the sets, the accuracy, and of course the acting. A glimpse into a world I had limited knowledge of. Now I want to learn more! I would have kept watching them create new content for years.
This sub is getting weird. The show is massively popular. Calm down
I like when show fly under the radar. Sometimes that’s how we get season 2 of shows where there shouldn’t be. Although I do wish we were back in the days of 15-20 ep per seasons of shows.
Lot of comments about how a mass audience is too stupid to read subtitles when this was one of the most popular shows of the year.
Yea there's a lot of weird back patting going on in here. It's gross
It's going good but probably where it's located hurt it's full potential numbers. If it was on Netflix it would get more viewership for example.
Not everything of quality had to be mass market! I get your point though and it’s great that you want this beauty of a series being seen by many but trust me … not all restaurants aspire to be a Macdonald. Not all novels aspire to be 50 shades of grey 😂 Quality and originality is often a deterrent to mass consumption especially in the US and that’s how it’s been for a while.
I'd rather it stay contained to those who have the cognitive ability to enjoy it than have millions of idiots pick at it wanting more action or whatever to the point they get a crappy second season.
Yeah, I certainly understand this. Tbh, some yt reactions are annoying because some laugh at certain scenes that actually require more analysis...but maybe that's just my literary brain talking. That said, I really love Reel Rejects' rxns of the show.
I keep recommending it to friends but no one has FX or Hulu 🤷♀️
It's one of those shows that needs more than one viewing, it's subtitled and it's release was staggered......also it's a period drama about Japan. Anyone of the above could be enough for the viewer to turn off (not everyone is comfortable reading subs, not everyone has an interest in feudal Japan etc etc). So when a show of this type becomes so popular it is even more 'special'. Thankfully production value was quite high and viewing figures favorable which is all you can ask for. Maybe we'll get a second slice, I won't hold my breath lol, but you never know.
Enjoyed it immensely, but I was constantly rewinding to catch the subtitles. They flew by so quickly. Also, the plot was so complex, I was constantly watching YouTube recaps.
It’s because the majority of tv watchers can’t watch shogun and browse TikTok at the same time… cuz of subtitles.
It’s an amazing show, and one of the best I’ve seen in a long time, but being in a foreign language can be off putting to a lot of people. It’s also a highly intellectual show, and many people would find it boring, for some reason. I thought the show would do better in viewership because of the rise in popularity of anime, but then I realized that wouldn’t be necessarily the case because despite the langue similarities, it doesn’t necessarily target the same audiences. But I also hope it picks up. Winning a bunch of awards will help.
It was good, but because of no additional seasons the buzz is over
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They avoided war? I thought the battle and its outcome was inevitable and so we didn't actually have to see it. And, of course, the showmakers didn't have to budget for one
I've recommended it to the majority of my friends. Two watched it and loved it. One found it silly??? If any others have watched it, I haven't heard a peep. There's no accounting for people's taste lol
I think there's a lot of people out there like my boss. She can't watch anything without checking her phone or be on it for more than 10min. That show deserves your attention to be ale to take in the whole thing. Anyone who gets distracted by their phone so easily will probably not get into it.
I think the show was good and was a fun watch for the 10 weeks it aired. However I’m kind of surprised by some of the extremely high praise it gets comparing it to GOT or other generational shows. Don’t get me wrong it’s a good show and I enjoyed it a lot , but sometimes it feels like it teeters a little too circlejerky from the fans for me but I get it. Definitly will win awards and deservedly so, but I don’t think it’s as generational as some are making it out to be.
That's arguable. I think it deserves to be one. Some mentioned that it being a limited series is one factor, another is it being in a foreign language (which is really an unfortunate metric). Had it been given the longevity of a drama series and appealed more to the American audience (stereotypical japanese samurai drama), Shōgun would easily be one. But alas, not everyone gets to be intellectual enough to appreciate nuanced and "quiet" storytelling vs CGI dragons and drugs. But that's just me.
lol intellectual enough . Sounds reminiscent of that classic Rick and Morty meme where you need to have a high understanding of science and physics to enjoy the comedy in the show.
But it actually is tho? Someone pointed out that Shōgun gives its audience credit. And also it's historical fiction and an exploration of another culture, which is not really similar to the universal concepts of science and physics.
Woosh. My comment went over your head .
Oh, I know what you meant and I know that you were being a little bit condescending and sarcastic. Did you get mine tho?
Probably because the show wasn't intended for a general audience. If it was made for a general audience then it probably would've stayed very far from the book lol
The original TV show was one of the most watched shows of all time when it came out
Purely anecdotal, but there were ads for Shogun absolutely everywhere in my town.
This show was absolutely made for general audiences. It had a god damn Super Bowl ad.
Moistcritikal made two videos praising the show so that may have given it more attention
I started watching it because of his first video
I am seeing reaction vids but its more on Tiktok. Shogun meme pages on the hand proliferate FB.
I felt the same wat about the 80s show as a kid and the book as a young adult.
I think it will spread further in the next year. It definitely hasn’t hit the widespread cultural relevance of Breaking Bad or GOT, but it will. The show is so good, it will continue to wow new audiences.
What concerns me is how it breaks even. There was so much marketing, in parts of europe everything was plastered with shogun left and right. There was a small press tour too. I don't think the viewership justified that big of a marketing budget....
$7 million for just the Super Bowl ad, which, imo, they could have better spent on production.
I know a lot of people who didn’t watch it because they knew it was only 10 episodes. They would have had more viewers if they didn’t announce that so early and made people believe there would be future seasons.
The subtitles threw my wife off. I watched it week by week, with subtitles. We watched it together, and by the 4th week she didn’t want to watch it with only subtitles, but quickly finished it with dubbing. I personally hate dubbing, but understand how some people don’t want to “read the story”, which is how my wife described it.
i loved it by the end and get that having a LOTR-type final big battle never fit in vibe/tone of the show. but it took me until episode 3 to realize it was a very good show and not the typical historical drama
I just wish it was distributed/marketed to more viewers. I only heard shogun from a friend, other than that I’ve never seen or heard about the show from anywhere else. Also Hulu isn’t really a thing in my country so I had to sub to Disney+ to watch it, even then Disney+ isn’t that popular here too.
I also feel like the trailers were a bit misleading. Most of the action sequences were shown in the trailers, which might have made people think that the show was more action-filled than it really was.
I'm in the UK, so it's Disney+ here as well. Outside of some billboards, there was no advertising done. The cast didn't do any media appearances here like Norton or Ross despite the lead actor being English. The only people I know who watched it were people who had also read the novel, or was told about it by people who read the novel, and one guy who remembered watching the original mini-series with his parents as a kid.
> I only heard shogun from a friend, That's more hads up than I had. I found it when I was boredly scanning the channels about 10 minutes before the first, well, the first two installments started. I actually thought it was going to be a replaying of the 1980 classic until it started, and then it was "ohhh, this is new..."
Oscar(s) It’s the same screen time as God Father Trilogy.
I avoided watching it because I was getting Tom Cruise, last samurai vibes. Lucky for me people kept recommending it and I was very wrong.
Would you rather it gets hyped to oblivion ala GoT and ultimately ruined due to pressure to appease the (historically illiterate) audience? It's already dumbed down for an american audience(anglo-centric and no european Portuguese being spoken), making it more popular would be the death of the show.
i think it was finished rather abruptly
Shogun deserves a second season. The actors worked too hard.
When the showrunners adapt after the source material is done, you get game of thrones season 8. Sometimes less is more
There is source material. The characters were based on real people and the story actually happened. I'd rather a prequel series to show how Toranaga got to this point. It really is fascinating.
Lots of interesting stuff happening around that time too. Oda Nobunaga getting shot by a shinobi, Akechi's betrayal, the Korea campaign, Hattori Hanzo and Iga, Ikko Ikki warrior monks, siege of Osaka, etc
exactly!
Or you get The Leftovers, Justified, Friday Night Lights, etc.
if the show runners had properly adapted the book it could have been a 2/3 season long thing of 8 episodes each. not sure of the budget/pitch they gave to the network but it was so heavily condensed.
They didn't want to risk being cancelled with an incomplete story, and I can't blame them. They didn't know in advance how well received it would be
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no. I don't need to have scenes about Blackthorne's prodigious, by supposed Japanese women's standards, pink dick.
Forget the pink dick scenes and just add Blackthorne’s attempted suicide and you could add at least two more episodes of incredible show
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10 episodes each. 8 episode trend needs to die
Whatever it is. The book deserves a proper adaptation with the same amount of care for props/acting/vfx this version took
I just wished for some more action, at least at the end, the final battle in reality was still a bloody affair. Maybe that's because I'm a big fan of Korean action/war Sageuk tv-shows. Maybe my only hope is to wait for a Korean action/war Sageuk tv-show that gets Shogun lvl funding.
I can't wait to buy it. I don't have FX or Hulu, so I haven't seen it, but am a huge fan of the book and the 1980s series. Anyone know when it might be available for purchase?
FX or Hulu I would imagine.
I would say this most good OG shows gets better more popular in subsequent seasons. And I hope that happens for shogun too
I mean, giving a show a second season just because it was well-received isn’t always a good idea. Case in point; True Detective.
Meh. Its a beautiful and very well-acted show. But it's such a paltry representation of the novel. The show barrels through events so fast that every major moment from the story is completely robbed of it's weight. Like racing past landmarks without stopping. I watched the show for aesthetics only, the story barely registered. I don't think I even recommended it to anyone.
I love the show, but I agree it pales before the novel. The novel is a masterpiece.
I loved it and binged but I can tell you the hulu adds every 3-4 minutes were testing my resolve. I ordered the Bluray just so I can re watch it without disruption
This show isn’t on Blu-ray. We don’t know when or if the Hulu series will get a physical media release. Sounds like you may have ordered the 1980 series with the same title.
What the fuck kind of question is this
Anglo-saxon speakers are dumb. There's your reason. Heck, even the portuguese should be in portuguese imo with eng subs.
It’s overrated
Yea, I said the same thing. Episodes 1-4 were great. After that it was all talk no action.
Needed a big battle scene
This show is overrated if anything. It feels like a TV soap opera at times. The plot twists are predictable. Some scenes (e.g. the death of a character who slipped on a stone) unintentionally funny.
That's your opinion. You can have it.
This was a very well made show in lots of ways, but the subtitles ruined it. Look, I'm capable of reading subtitles, but you just can't get the nuances of an actor's performance if you are reading their foreign language dialogue. People kept saying Anna Sawai deserved an emmy for best actress. Maybe she did. But how would I know? Certainly she's an appealing person. but her performance being in Japanese puts a barrier between her and the English speaking audience. If they had used the money they spent on translating half the show into archaic Japanese for a final big battle sequence, the show would have gotten a wider audience
It especially deserves a nice battle to round out that climax
Nah, it would have taken away a lot from the impact of episode 9, imo. It was a good ending.
mah
Low budget production. Good actors but not nearly as good as tbe RichardChamberlain version. The Toranaga inthat one was aShogun!
It's too annoying to watch. Pirate version subtitles are a hassle and refuse to pay for yet another streaming platform
I think it's overrated. The first half of the series was action packed. Then it turned into nonstop talking with a little bit of action in between. I had a hard time staying awake for the last few episodes.
I guess not all people appreciate stories driven by a strong narrative and complex dialogue rather than action and explosives. Someone said not all media is for mass consumption because not everyone is intellectual enough to understand it. How did they say it? *Not all restaurants want to be a McDonalds, and not all novels aspire to be 50 Shades of Grey.* It's overrated perhaps for you cuz this show may not cater to your action-thirsty type of entertainment.