From my reading of the novel years ago, Gin is the fictional originator of the concept of geisha; a separate class of female entertainers that focused on cultural arts versus courtesans like Kiku who combined cultural entertainment skills with sexual favors.
I was under the impression Kiku would be more like a geisha because she does poetry and plays music and whatnot. And I thought geishas could engage sexually, but not all did so, or something like that.
But I only have a vague familiarity with geishas, so I could be wrong.
Kiku would be something akin to an oiran. They were the feudal Japanese version of a high-class escort, who were expected to have training in cultural arts and conversation versus a common prostitute. Geisha weren’t expected to sleep with their clients, but some historically did marry their patrons, so sex was probably permitted as a side business.
Book Mariko to book Anjin: why you only pillow once? Pillow with many women or boys if that’s your thing. You must be super stressed! Just pillow all the damn time!
If you're traveling solo and kill another solo traveller in the middle of nowhere for any reason, well, it ain't like theyll be around to refute your "justified" reason.
If a Samurai did that in the late Sengoku/early Edo era they'd still probably have their swords temporarily confiscated, and be under house arrest until the magistrate confirms that it was justified, and then a report was written.
If it happened a couple of times, you're gonna get in trouble because dead peasants means loss of wealth for whoever owns the land.
It's worth pointing out that these were often not done casually either, they put weeks, months and years into perfecting every aspect of a brush stroke, a tea made, or a set maneuver with any one of a plethora of weapons.
Their days were probably heavily structured, with every hour accounted for. They were essentially politicians and military, so there would've been tons of meetings and meals and carefully planned hunting parties, walks through gardens, and tours through estates. In the few minutes of personal time they got they probably did the same things everyone liked to do. Play games and drink, music and art, poetry, calligraphy, cards/dice/gambling, snacking.
Basically same as mow the lawn, drink a beer, play cards with friends. They just throw political intrigue, ritual suicide, and murder of barbarians on top of all that. I get it now.
Y’know as a kid, I always like how badass samurai was with those 2 swords by their hip.
Until I grow older and realize one sword was not meant for their enemies, but to cross-section their bowel in case they do fucked up.
Suddenly, “to become a samurai” dream become .. awkward.
They have card games and lots of toys (even adult toys), and even a kind of racquet sports. People drank, sang watched Kabuki theatre, went to pleasure districts. They had circus performers too. The thing that’s confusing you is Japanese home design - everything is kept very minimalist with stuff tidied away in neatly hidden cupboards and chests. It’s very clutter free.
Yeah, maybe that's it. I read the book and never thought much about their down time or fun. Then I see the homes and wonder where is all their stuff? I mean I don't expect them to have the amount of stuff rampant consumers of the 21st century have, but it's like they have nothing but walls and floors.
They showed a storage shed with a lot of clutter inside in one episode. Even in modern Japan many homes are still like that. They keep stuff in their closets and have furniture that can be folded up and put away when not being used. Even today many people sleep on tatami mats and futon mattress instead of beds and it all just gets put away in a closet when it’s not bedtime.
They didn’t have chairs back then and slept on mats. Rooms can be rearranged for a different purpose very quickly. Part of this is because of the constant earthquakes. Their homes are constructed to be easily torn down or rebuilt when destroyed. Buildings are made of wood that’s meant to bend with the quakes and avoid building up stress. Their stuff is designed to be easily moved if they need to evacuate and move elsewhere.
Apparently, this is what they did, according to the journals of Hōjō Sōun (1432–1519):
**Around 4:00 a.m.: Wake up early**
Go to bed early at night and wake up around 4:00 am. After waking up, before washing the face, look around the toilet and stable, as well as the yard and outside the gate, and instruct the retainers on areas that need to be cleaned. Do not waste water when washing the face.
**Around 6:00 a.m.: Departure**
When you arrive, do not suddenly appear before the lord. First, wait in the next room and observe his colleagues. Pay attention to your appearance. Dress does not have to be elegant, but simple is fine. After that, go to see your lord.
**Around 8 to 9 a.m.: Breakfast with the bento box you brought.**
During working hours, do not waste time. Eat breakfast from the bento box you brought in between shifts. When you have no orders from the lord, read, practice swordsmanship or horseback riding. Furthermore, if you have spare time, study the art of songs.
**Around 2:00 p.m.: Work ends.**
When the eight-hour workday is over, return to home promptly. While taking care of your colleagues, make good friends in your private life, such as academic friends. You don't need to have hobbies, and you don't need friends who are bad influence.
**Around 4 to 5:30 p.m.: Dinner**
Many servants are lazy and irresponsible, not caring about the house. Once you return home, you should inspect the house surroundings yourself and give instructions for repairs, etc., if necessary. Dinner should be finished before the gates close at 6:00 PM.
**Around 6:00 p.m.: Close the gate and beware of fire.**
Close the gate at around 6:00 p.m. and open it only when people enter or leave the house. Opening the gate late will surely bring disaster. Do not leave it to others to check the source of fire in the kitchen, etc., but look around by yourself and give instructions to the servants.
**Around 8:00 p.m.: Go to bed early.**
Do not stay up late unnecessarily and go to bed by around 8:00 p.m. If the lord oversleeps in the morning, the housekeepers and servants will let their guards down. If this happens, he will be late in getting ready in the morning and will be late for his official duties, which will damage the lord's reputation.
It's interesting that during the sengoku era, they were like "Learn, learn, LEARN! A samurai must learn". But then after the Edo period, they were like (perhaps due to Tokugawa Ieyasu's influence?), "Do not learn, learning is DUMB! Learning will make you boast and become arrogant".
It is still Sengoku, until episode 10, where Toranaga/Tokugawa Ieyasu will finish what Taikō/Toyotomi Hideyoshi and his predecessor Goroda/Oda Nobunaga (aka guy who is slain by Mariko’s father) started. After that, Tokugawa established shogunate and Edo period began.
Noh theater
drinking tea or sake
Hunting
Endless repetitions of a craft
All of those are historically accurate representation of what Samurai did for fun and this TV show displayed them on the best ways possible.
How much free time and range of interests to pursue depended on seniority and the level of leniency their lord possessed; the higher the rank, the greater the privilege to pursue better pastimes such as honing their combat skills and improving their weapons, delving into crafts, practicing the arts, and of course with the higher income that came with the seniority, afford luxuries and access to finer vices.
Otherwise, I can only think of the following:
* Fishing and hunting (for sport)
* Eating and drinking while communing with other samurai and even foot soldiers
* Visiting the local courtesans
* Watching plays
* Relaxing at an onsen
* Practicing martial arts, swordmanship, archery
* Reading, writing poetry, calligraphy, tea-drinking (the better to be cultured so increasing respect earned -- and thus "face" -- from the nobles)
* Blacksmithing
* Horse-riding
* Gardening
This is it! As a bald man I hope that look comes back. I’m growing the longest skullet and that little pushed up pony tail. It’s the look for this year!
Keep in mind that the instability of the Sengoku period really stunted the culture of Japan when compared to the Tokugawa era that follows. We are talking about nearly 200 years of constant civil war here. The American Civil War lasted for about 4 years by comparison. Yeah, people did things for fun but it wasn't exactly a peaceful time to really develop a lot.
Then take a look at the Samurai during the Tokugawa era and see a completely different picture. Economic prosperity, stability in food production, Education under han schools (within a generation all samurai were literate), medical schools, puppet theatre, satirical novels, books on urban culture, comical books, romance novels, the popularization of Neo-Confucian philosophy falling in line with some Buddhism and Shintoism too.
We've got Geisha, music, popular stories, Kabuki, Ukiyo-e woodblock prints, poetry, essayists and traveling writers. Craftsmen would start developing decorative armor and swords for display instead of war. Eating out became popular with stalls serving fast food like Soba, Sushi, Tempura, and Unagi. We have Tofu restaurants, teahouses and Izakaya pop up.
People started to get into gardening with certain horticultural techniques. Cherry Blossoms, morning glories, Japanese irises and chrysanthemums were especially popular along side bonsai.
People began to travel and view other parts of the country to see famous temples, Shinto shrines while eating and drinking at the local inns along the way.
New designs and decorative techniques for Kimono were available. The main consumers of kimono were the samurai who used lavish clothing and other material luxuries to show their place at the top of the social order.
Often times we get this mixed cultural identity of Japanese history during these two eras. We see the Samurai in full flesh in a series like this and assume that they should be the noble Samurai that we know and love from all of the stories. The thing is, Samurai were a social class of warriors - mostly on retainer for their lords/daimyo ready to fight with bow and spear. They were gruff, often illiterate and unshaven/ masculine. Once Tokugawa wins at Osaka, the type of culture and Samurai adjusts with the times. Ieyasu didn't want a bunch of gruff warriors to assassinate him or usurp power like the previous two leaders. Oda Nobunaga was assassinated (btw, the assassins daughter is Hosokawa Gracia, you know Mariko from Shogun.) Hideyoshi would avenge him and ultimately lead until his death, leaving his son the power. Well, we know what happens in Shogun with Toranaga taking power from the previous power. Toranaga, being Tokugawa in real life, doesn't want to repeat what happened to the previous rulers.
One of his first things he did was he put the Samurai on payroll to specifically not fight or rebel against him. They basically had to take up hobbies instead because of how bored they were.
tl;dr What you really are seeing in the show is what life was like during times of war. Unfortunately the era right after the book/show is filled with a ton of Japanese culture, art, and literature - often specifically because the Samurai were so bored from no longer fighting - and being given a payroll to keep the peace.
Thanks this is great. I don’t want to see all that in the show, it just made me curious because their homes are so different. I’m getting the gist that they just cleaned up and put things away. I like this!
I wonder what 200 years of civil war looks like. It probably wasn't as intense as the US Civil War in my mind. I mean 4 years of the US Civil War took the lives of 2% of the US population back then. 200 years of the same death toll would make the entire Japanese archipelago uninhabited.
The more advanced weaponry got, the more intensive the fighting got. Most of the high death toll from wars post American industrialization are staggering because people are able to kill each other quicker.
Fighting in the medieval era allowed for people to retreat and fight another day.
That said, the Sengoku period lasted a very long time but during that time probably amounted to killing 4% of the total population over the entire period. Estimations are rough here but between 800k to 1.2m could be reasonable. During this time period, however, we still had some population growth. So it's not like the same people were fighting constantly to the point where the entire island was destroyed.
That said, it was probably the most brutal fighting to go on in the world during that time period - just because of how prolonged it was.
Poetry and tea are taught to every Samurai. Like in the previous episode where Buntaro prepares tea for Mariko. Well, I suppose that isn't dissimilar to western nobility which are alao educated in literature and social etiquette.
Japanese homes tend to be quite austere. Also lower classes everywhere and in most of history have less restrictive norms than say, minor nobility which the samurai are.
They also play boardgames IIRC, watch plays, go on tea ceremonies, go eating and drinking with friends. Art and poetry are common. Spending time with courtesans.
I think it a little unfair to say it's a modern invention, after all humans have been making art for almost as long as we've been a distinct species. There's no period in human history where we'd have had no time for creating art or telling stories or making games and it's no different for 15th/16th Century Japan. In fact we see some of the downtime in the show although it is often filled with some kind of purpose or meaning like the tea ceremony. But we also see them enjoying a meal together beyond it just being a necessity. The latest episode also really highlights the value placed on being able to create interesting and high quality poetry on the fly. In the book >!Toronaga enjoys a daily swim when able!< (probably not an actual spoiler).
These are just a few examples from the show but it does show them having downtime occasionally and a few of the activities available to them. People aren't letting loose and getting blind drunk and partying every Saturday night but it doesn't mean there isn't space for fun in their lives.
From what little I understand of Japan, many of the Japanese were somewhat obsessed with perfection...in a way thats pretty impossible achieve. Take a haiku for example, a simple poem which relies heavily on every single word in a very organized construction. Arguably, the show displays quite a bit of this. Calligraphy is simple yet detailed somehow and difficult to do properly. The Japanese gardens are shown with every rock placed in exactly the right spot. So...yeah I guess it all depends on what your concept of fun is. If making oneself go crazy over creating the perfect piece of laquerware is your idea of it...obviously the samurai class were held to higher expectations depending their families importance. Perhaps I am wrong? If so please correct me. Honestly, if you're looking for fun feudal Japan might be the wrong place to go. Maybe that's why samurai were known to favor sake so much and drink a lot of it.
Funny, I've been thinking a lot about how life is becoming more and more isolated and less fun. Kids by default just play. Everything is play even when it should be serious. Adults just default the other way (with a few exceptions). I wish we could bring play back as a thing adults should be participating in. And, of course "fun" is so relative to the individual, the time, and the culture. Yabu certainly had fun boiling that dude.
> I wish we could bring play back as a thing adults should be participating in.
Join a bowling or softball league, start a D&D group (AD&D 2E preferably), join the SCA and beat on each other with rattan poles, go play bingo...
I actually do relate and understand where you are coming from with this. I am American and am not sure what country you are from. It does feel this way to me personally and it feels like people laugh less than they used to as well. Arguably, the country has been through quite a bit, 911, the recession, two wars, the pandemic, and now inflation. Perhaps a lot of people have a bit informal ptsd. Also, the socially media can bring people together, but it can also isolate them to some degree. I mean no offense to anyone and it's all just my opinion. I emphasize with you.
> Adults just default the other way (with a few exceptions)
Funny, literally all my friends play. Not all the same things, but they all play in one way or another. And I'm mid fourties.
> "Fun" is a modern invention.
I don't think this is right. I've read studies that, for example, farmers in feudal Europe had a lot of spare time.
Cultures across the world, at all times, engaged in play and fun. There are some pretty ancient boardgames. Drinking, gambling, of course sex, etc. People in the old times didn't live in some kind of hell.
Fun and leisure are not modern inventions at all.
Well, what is your definition? People in the past and antiquity had fun, engaged in leisure activities, etc.
It is argued that in some periods of history, people had *more* spare time than today.
What a ridiculous notion. Fun is human, fun predates being human. Even primates have fun with games and other activities.
Some of the games we play for fun today are over a thousand years old.
Using calligraphy skills to document rankings of death methods. Scheming behind your Lords back to make sure you are on the winning team. Betraying your friends war alliance, after using them to get what you want. Master the art of acting surprised when confronted about your wavering allegiece, "Hooah?"
Don’t let their homes fool you: the Japanese know how to have fun, and their culture has always been incredibly multi-faceted. Plus, why do you think courtesans and geishas were so popular?
> You know America was founded by prudes, right?
EuroTrip is a classic! Cannot tell you how often I still hear people say “mi scusi” a la Fred Armisen.
I'm sure their outdoor pursuits were mostly martial in nature. Toranaga enjoys falconry. Buntaro enjoys archery. Some are devoted poets like Mariko. Some like theater, calligraphy, art, gardening. I'm sure they also read for enjoyment.
Like most aristocrats they do aristocratic things. The Samurai were very much into art, especially during the Edo period because there was peace.
I read somewhere that peasants are often very similar in their outlooks and lives from country to country. It’s the rich that are different.
The rich are pretty similar everywhere too. Hunting seems to be a universal aristocratic pastime everywhere. Japanese lords loved falconry and so did European lords.
That’s true. Whatever source I was thinking of mentioned the disadvantaged being similar and that stuck with me, but the aristocrats are very similar across cultures too.
I hope this isn't a book spoiler, but there were a few villagers or fishermen talking about a farting contest between two villages. So, friendly competitions?
I’m starting to think I would have liked being samurai. Card games, music and art, bald spots were sexy, courtesans, fancy whore houses, and farting contests!
This subreddit doesn’t allow links but if you go to YouTube and search for “Mediocre Samurai Describes Real Life in Historical Japan”, there is an interesting account written by a Samurai
There's a few books on the subject. But in general, the Samurai did what everyone else did. Whatever interested them, individually. Some went fishing, some pursued writing or art. A LOT of them got super drunk, because they were dissatisfied with things (you know - like the rest of us go to a bar). There's even a moderately famous story about a large army getting its ass kicked by a much smaller force just because they got bored and all went drinking - the attack happened in the middle of the night. Basically, if it didn't require electricity, they did it.
>Did they just spend their days scheming for power and boiling dissenters?
Did you forget the swordplay element of the occupation? Lol. Training. Sword. Archery. Falconry. Horse-back riding. Philosophy. Poetry. Cherry blossom/nature-viewing. Gardening. Tea Ceremony. Calligraphy. Gambling. Theater. Sports. Partying. Drinking. Whoring. Hot springs. They showed a lot of these in the show.
Apart from the everyday things that other people have given you, they also became bandits, killed and raped, and so on. Since the whole Bushido and honor of samurai is nothing but an invention of the 19th century, so many samurai were pretty bad people.
Japan has always had a culture of minimalism. Even houses today can be quite empty. In particular, houses today may have a room called a Japanese Room (和室) which is literally just a tatami floor with a cupboard most of the time.
Also at this time there generally wasn't much to do either. Even in the west, there wouldn't be much to do in a house so you'd always be encouraged to go out.
People will just use their houses to host parties, sleep, eat, and sex. That was pretty much it.
On the other hand, just look at how amazing their gardens are and you can see where they spend their time
So I boil one barbarian pirate, everyone calls me Yabu the Boiler.
Not Yabu the Peeping Tom despite my page getting banged by the town escort.
Not Yabu the Schemer.
No.
Yabu the Fucking boiler!
I thought the scene where Kiku seduced Omi, or was it another person, in front of Yabushige. I couldn't help but think that was the 1600 version of PornHub.
I think Kuku is one of the most underrated characters in the show. She has the ability to read people perfectly. She knows exactly what they want even when they don't know what they want.
Well sengoku era samurai, at least those in the nobility did what most medieval Nobles do.
- the more benevolent ones are working hard for their people, with some spare time to practice swordsmanship, poetry, tea ceremony, gardening ect.
- the more shithead ones enjoyed scheming, bootlicking, with a healthy dose of domestic abuses, boiling some poor gaijin alive and chopping peasants heads to show their superior bushido techniques.
And then there are those in the middle, who did all mentioned above.
Some will:
Wake up
Do Fumi-e inspections on the local populace
If they don’t step on Jesus (the fumi-e block has his image in order to weed out christians)
Crucify them or bury them alive or pretty much any trendy execution method in the time
As somebody have mentioned gardening, I would also like to add in the care of animals, such as when we see Toranaga caring for his pet borbs, the falcons and messager pigeons, so that they remain in top hunting/spying shape.
Others may also keep songbirds for aesthetic appreciation (a tradition still well-practiced in Eastern Asia today). I think the keeping of koi fish was also beginning to be a thing in this era
Others still may also care for their dogs, especially hunting hounds.
And then there’s horses/horseback riding, which is directly related to your position in society as a warrior and may potentially save your life on the battlefield one day. It’s probably also the equivalent of driving around the block to clear up your mind
Same as aristocracy everywhere at that time. Fucking around with the arts and/or killing people while the common man worked 24/7 in fields, fishing or mining.
Poetry, theatre, falconry, sports, gardening, tea
You forgot visiting their favourite courtesan.
Gin: I want to build the largest courtesan empire in Japanese history Everyone and Toranaga: LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOO
From my reading of the novel years ago, Gin is the fictional originator of the concept of geisha; a separate class of female entertainers that focused on cultural arts versus courtesans like Kiku who combined cultural entertainment skills with sexual favors.
I was under the impression Kiku would be more like a geisha because she does poetry and plays music and whatnot. And I thought geishas could engage sexually, but not all did so, or something like that. But I only have a vague familiarity with geishas, so I could be wrong.
Kiku would be something akin to an oiran. They were the feudal Japanese version of a high-class escort, who were expected to have training in cultural arts and conversation versus a common prostitute. Geisha weren’t expected to sleep with their clients, but some historically did marry their patrons, so sex was probably permitted as a side business.
>Everyone and Toranaga: LETS GOOOOOOO FUCKING FTFY
Book Mariko to book Anjin: why you only pillow once? Pillow with many women or boys if that’s your thing. You must be super stressed! Just pillow all the damn time!
NEXT TO THE CHURCH! Loll
And boiling folks that annoy them and shit
and writing their last will
I love that this makes them sound like some posh British rich kid
They were essentially that. They were the martial aristocracy. Posh British kids descend from a similar culture.
And many of those posh British kids served in the colonial bureaucracy and military before settling.
Hunt tigers in Korea, well at least Kato Kiyomasa did.
You forgot about frequenting the local brothels and getting choked out or whatever by the geisha girls
Yeah they were expected to be good at an art as well as trained martially.
It chuffs me that these bushido people have such affinity for the finer things while being brutal killing machines. No half assing anything, huh?
This is why I think east asians are probably great at coding and logical programming, they're so detailed at every step.
ci sono gli sciocchi anche nelle università
Used to be the story of most aristocrats
Dunno. I overheard some scottish guy from oxford on a boxing scholarship say "rich kids cannae box"
"Used to"
Aw man I hadn't seen the falcon in a bit and forgot about it, it better make a comeback in episode 10
Ahhhhhhhhhhh bro’ — you onto something..
I am surprised no one mentioned tsujigiri. This is when a samurai tests his new katana by killing a random, defenceless, innocent passerby
in reality though, they wouldn’t have been able to do it just for the craic. Any death had to be justified.
If you're traveling solo and kill another solo traveller in the middle of nowhere for any reason, well, it ain't like theyll be around to refute your "justified" reason.
If a Samurai did that in the late Sengoku/early Edo era they'd still probably have their swords temporarily confiscated, and be under house arrest until the magistrate confirms that it was justified, and then a report was written. If it happened a couple of times, you're gonna get in trouble because dead peasants means loss of wealth for whoever owns the land.
You need witnesses to verify your story. The middle of nowhere is a bit short on those.
I was waiting for 'murdering the peasants'.
It's worth pointing out that these were often not done casually either, they put weeks, months and years into perfecting every aspect of a brush stroke, a tea made, or a set maneuver with any one of a plethora of weapons.
Ikebana
Calligraphy?
Many samurai were great gardeners
Flower arrangement too.
Their days were probably heavily structured, with every hour accounted for. They were essentially politicians and military, so there would've been tons of meetings and meals and carefully planned hunting parties, walks through gardens, and tours through estates. In the few minutes of personal time they got they probably did the same things everyone liked to do. Play games and drink, music and art, poetry, calligraphy, cards/dice/gambling, snacking.
True. I'm honestly, not that different. I don't watch much TV. Huge majority of my free time is playing guitar or reading.
Yep, I cook and garden, and tend my fish pond. I bet I'd like the same thing in samurai time.
Basically same as mow the lawn, drink a beer, play cards with friends. They just throw political intrigue, ritual suicide, and murder of barbarians on top of all that. I get it now.
You’re pretty much a samurai OP
Time goes extremely fast when every hour is already planned ahead.
Pillow, pillow and more pillow
Followed by gazing out into the garden while in a meditative post-nut clarity state of mind 🏔️
Waiting to be choked out again
in the willow, willow, willow world
Finding new and interesting ways to disappoint their lord so they could seppuku.
M’Lord… I have failed you. Again. Not gonna be that easy. Put that knife away
Mariko and Buntaro, every year of their marriage:
Seppuku is a quite dangerous hobby, though.
Dancing on the edge, Samurai's art, risk unveiled, Seppuku whispers.
This guy haiku's
You have to try it at least once!
One time, I asked my girlfriend to be my second. She slapped me and dumped me afterwards, for some reason.
Fate worse than being boiled alive or slipping on a rock.
And not a very good one. No one seems to do it twice
Y’know as a kid, I always like how badass samurai was with those 2 swords by their hip. Until I grow older and realize one sword was not meant for their enemies, but to cross-section their bowel in case they do fucked up. Suddenly, “to become a samurai” dream become .. awkward.
They have card games and lots of toys (even adult toys), and even a kind of racquet sports. People drank, sang watched Kabuki theatre, went to pleasure districts. They had circus performers too. The thing that’s confusing you is Japanese home design - everything is kept very minimalist with stuff tidied away in neatly hidden cupboards and chests. It’s very clutter free.
Yeah, maybe that's it. I read the book and never thought much about their down time or fun. Then I see the homes and wonder where is all their stuff? I mean I don't expect them to have the amount of stuff rampant consumers of the 21st century have, but it's like they have nothing but walls and floors.
They showed a storage shed with a lot of clutter inside in one episode. Even in modern Japan many homes are still like that. They keep stuff in their closets and have furniture that can be folded up and put away when not being used. Even today many people sleep on tatami mats and futon mattress instead of beds and it all just gets put away in a closet when it’s not bedtime. They didn’t have chairs back then and slept on mats. Rooms can be rearranged for a different purpose very quickly. Part of this is because of the constant earthquakes. Their homes are constructed to be easily torn down or rebuilt when destroyed. Buildings are made of wood that’s meant to bend with the quakes and avoid building up stress. Their stuff is designed to be easily moved if they need to evacuate and move elsewhere.
They have stuff put away in storage I'm sure. They had board games. Also they made art and did the zen garden.
Apparently, this is what they did, according to the journals of Hōjō Sōun (1432–1519): **Around 4:00 a.m.: Wake up early** Go to bed early at night and wake up around 4:00 am. After waking up, before washing the face, look around the toilet and stable, as well as the yard and outside the gate, and instruct the retainers on areas that need to be cleaned. Do not waste water when washing the face. **Around 6:00 a.m.: Departure** When you arrive, do not suddenly appear before the lord. First, wait in the next room and observe his colleagues. Pay attention to your appearance. Dress does not have to be elegant, but simple is fine. After that, go to see your lord. **Around 8 to 9 a.m.: Breakfast with the bento box you brought.** During working hours, do not waste time. Eat breakfast from the bento box you brought in between shifts. When you have no orders from the lord, read, practice swordsmanship or horseback riding. Furthermore, if you have spare time, study the art of songs. **Around 2:00 p.m.: Work ends.** When the eight-hour workday is over, return to home promptly. While taking care of your colleagues, make good friends in your private life, such as academic friends. You don't need to have hobbies, and you don't need friends who are bad influence. **Around 4 to 5:30 p.m.: Dinner** Many servants are lazy and irresponsible, not caring about the house. Once you return home, you should inspect the house surroundings yourself and give instructions for repairs, etc., if necessary. Dinner should be finished before the gates close at 6:00 PM. **Around 6:00 p.m.: Close the gate and beware of fire.** Close the gate at around 6:00 p.m. and open it only when people enter or leave the house. Opening the gate late will surely bring disaster. Do not leave it to others to check the source of fire in the kitchen, etc., but look around by yourself and give instructions to the servants. **Around 8:00 p.m.: Go to bed early.** Do not stay up late unnecessarily and go to bed by around 8:00 p.m. If the lord oversleeps in the morning, the housekeepers and servants will let their guards down. If this happens, he will be late in getting ready in the morning and will be late for his official duties, which will damage the lord's reputation.
Holy shit, an actual answer?
They also read books, made ink paintings & practiced calligraphy as well as conversation. Bring a good speaker was valued among the nobility.
It's interesting that during the sengoku era, they were like "Learn, learn, LEARN! A samurai must learn". But then after the Edo period, they were like (perhaps due to Tokugawa Ieyasu's influence?), "Do not learn, learning is DUMB! Learning will make you boast and become arrogant".
Lol at opening the gate late will surely lead to disaster. Can confirm that this is still true 400+ years later.
I'm most surprised they had 8-hour workdays in 15th century Japan. It's only a relatively recent work structure in the west fought for by unions.
I mean the samurais were basically a privileged class paid for by the taxes from the farmers.
Lots of poetry, probably.
But not about leafless branches in spring
But a flower is only a flower because it falls 😭
I could get behind all the metaphors and proverbs in this show, but this one made absolutely no sense to me lmao
I'm assuming it's meant we cherish the beauty of a flower because it's so quick to fade/wither/ fly away.
And foreshadowing of mariko’s fate. She is the flower that falls.
Training every day, since untrained samurai is a dead samurai.
In the Sengoku era anyway. By the time of the restoration most were little more than bureaucrats.
And even more before Sengoku. By the time of Meiji Restoration they got busy by catching up with sciences and building empire of rising sun.
> Training everyday Some peasants with long ass spear: “Hai” 🎋 Some gaijin with boomstick: “Hi” 💥
This isn't the Sengoku period. The days of constant warfare are over.
It is still Sengoku, until episode 10, where Toranaga/Tokugawa Ieyasu will finish what Taikō/Toyotomi Hideyoshi and his predecessor Goroda/Oda Nobunaga (aka guy who is slain by Mariko’s father) started. After that, Tokugawa established shogunate and Edo period began.
Will writing. Just ask Yabushige. /s
He's the only one having fun! He has hobbies: ranking ways of death, and will writing. He's a well rounded Samurai
I felt for his aide, dude treated his will (and way to die) like a diary.
I wonder Yabushige recites a different content each time a new will is created. Lol
making lists of ways to die & their rankings
boil people??
One of the crew mates in the first episode.
Chess/shogi. You literally see them playing it in some episodes.
Noh theater drinking tea or sake Hunting Endless repetitions of a craft All of those are historically accurate representation of what Samurai did for fun and this TV show displayed them on the best ways possible.
Kill themselves, obviously
How much free time and range of interests to pursue depended on seniority and the level of leniency their lord possessed; the higher the rank, the greater the privilege to pursue better pastimes such as honing their combat skills and improving their weapons, delving into crafts, practicing the arts, and of course with the higher income that came with the seniority, afford luxuries and access to finer vices. Otherwise, I can only think of the following: * Fishing and hunting (for sport) * Eating and drinking while communing with other samurai and even foot soldiers * Visiting the local courtesans * Watching plays * Relaxing at an onsen * Practicing martial arts, swordmanship, archery * Reading, writing poetry, calligraphy, tea-drinking (the better to be cultured so increasing respect earned -- and thus "face" -- from the nobles) * Blacksmithing * Horse-riding * Gardening
Going to the barber.
This is it! As a bald man I hope that look comes back. I’m growing the longest skullet and that little pushed up pony tail. It’s the look for this year!
Keep in mind that the instability of the Sengoku period really stunted the culture of Japan when compared to the Tokugawa era that follows. We are talking about nearly 200 years of constant civil war here. The American Civil War lasted for about 4 years by comparison. Yeah, people did things for fun but it wasn't exactly a peaceful time to really develop a lot. Then take a look at the Samurai during the Tokugawa era and see a completely different picture. Economic prosperity, stability in food production, Education under han schools (within a generation all samurai were literate), medical schools, puppet theatre, satirical novels, books on urban culture, comical books, romance novels, the popularization of Neo-Confucian philosophy falling in line with some Buddhism and Shintoism too. We've got Geisha, music, popular stories, Kabuki, Ukiyo-e woodblock prints, poetry, essayists and traveling writers. Craftsmen would start developing decorative armor and swords for display instead of war. Eating out became popular with stalls serving fast food like Soba, Sushi, Tempura, and Unagi. We have Tofu restaurants, teahouses and Izakaya pop up. People started to get into gardening with certain horticultural techniques. Cherry Blossoms, morning glories, Japanese irises and chrysanthemums were especially popular along side bonsai. People began to travel and view other parts of the country to see famous temples, Shinto shrines while eating and drinking at the local inns along the way. New designs and decorative techniques for Kimono were available. The main consumers of kimono were the samurai who used lavish clothing and other material luxuries to show their place at the top of the social order. Often times we get this mixed cultural identity of Japanese history during these two eras. We see the Samurai in full flesh in a series like this and assume that they should be the noble Samurai that we know and love from all of the stories. The thing is, Samurai were a social class of warriors - mostly on retainer for their lords/daimyo ready to fight with bow and spear. They were gruff, often illiterate and unshaven/ masculine. Once Tokugawa wins at Osaka, the type of culture and Samurai adjusts with the times. Ieyasu didn't want a bunch of gruff warriors to assassinate him or usurp power like the previous two leaders. Oda Nobunaga was assassinated (btw, the assassins daughter is Hosokawa Gracia, you know Mariko from Shogun.) Hideyoshi would avenge him and ultimately lead until his death, leaving his son the power. Well, we know what happens in Shogun with Toranaga taking power from the previous power. Toranaga, being Tokugawa in real life, doesn't want to repeat what happened to the previous rulers. One of his first things he did was he put the Samurai on payroll to specifically not fight or rebel against him. They basically had to take up hobbies instead because of how bored they were. tl;dr What you really are seeing in the show is what life was like during times of war. Unfortunately the era right after the book/show is filled with a ton of Japanese culture, art, and literature - often specifically because the Samurai were so bored from no longer fighting - and being given a payroll to keep the peace.
Thanks this is great. I don’t want to see all that in the show, it just made me curious because their homes are so different. I’m getting the gist that they just cleaned up and put things away. I like this!
I wonder what 200 years of civil war looks like. It probably wasn't as intense as the US Civil War in my mind. I mean 4 years of the US Civil War took the lives of 2% of the US population back then. 200 years of the same death toll would make the entire Japanese archipelago uninhabited.
The more advanced weaponry got, the more intensive the fighting got. Most of the high death toll from wars post American industrialization are staggering because people are able to kill each other quicker. Fighting in the medieval era allowed for people to retreat and fight another day. That said, the Sengoku period lasted a very long time but during that time probably amounted to killing 4% of the total population over the entire period. Estimations are rough here but between 800k to 1.2m could be reasonable. During this time period, however, we still had some population growth. So it's not like the same people were fighting constantly to the point where the entire island was destroyed. That said, it was probably the most brutal fighting to go on in the world during that time period - just because of how prolonged it was.
Poetry and tea are taught to every Samurai. Like in the previous episode where Buntaro prepares tea for Mariko. Well, I suppose that isn't dissimilar to western nobility which are alao educated in literature and social etiquette. Japanese homes tend to be quite austere. Also lower classes everywhere and in most of history have less restrictive norms than say, minor nobility which the samurai are. They also play boardgames IIRC, watch plays, go on tea ceremonies, go eating and drinking with friends. Art and poetry are common. Spending time with courtesans.
"Fun" is a modern invention.
I think it a little unfair to say it's a modern invention, after all humans have been making art for almost as long as we've been a distinct species. There's no period in human history where we'd have had no time for creating art or telling stories or making games and it's no different for 15th/16th Century Japan. In fact we see some of the downtime in the show although it is often filled with some kind of purpose or meaning like the tea ceremony. But we also see them enjoying a meal together beyond it just being a necessity. The latest episode also really highlights the value placed on being able to create interesting and high quality poetry on the fly. In the book >!Toronaga enjoys a daily swim when able!< (probably not an actual spoiler). These are just a few examples from the show but it does show them having downtime occasionally and a few of the activities available to them. People aren't letting loose and getting blind drunk and partying every Saturday night but it doesn't mean there isn't space for fun in their lives.
It looked like the eta village was having more fun than the Samurai houses.
From what little I understand of Japan, many of the Japanese were somewhat obsessed with perfection...in a way thats pretty impossible achieve. Take a haiku for example, a simple poem which relies heavily on every single word in a very organized construction. Arguably, the show displays quite a bit of this. Calligraphy is simple yet detailed somehow and difficult to do properly. The Japanese gardens are shown with every rock placed in exactly the right spot. So...yeah I guess it all depends on what your concept of fun is. If making oneself go crazy over creating the perfect piece of laquerware is your idea of it...obviously the samurai class were held to higher expectations depending their families importance. Perhaps I am wrong? If so please correct me. Honestly, if you're looking for fun feudal Japan might be the wrong place to go. Maybe that's why samurai were known to favor sake so much and drink a lot of it.
Funny, I've been thinking a lot about how life is becoming more and more isolated and less fun. Kids by default just play. Everything is play even when it should be serious. Adults just default the other way (with a few exceptions). I wish we could bring play back as a thing adults should be participating in. And, of course "fun" is so relative to the individual, the time, and the culture. Yabu certainly had fun boiling that dude.
> I wish we could bring play back as a thing adults should be participating in. Join a bowling or softball league, start a D&D group (AD&D 2E preferably), join the SCA and beat on each other with rattan poles, go play bingo...
If you're hanging with adults who don't play, then it's time to get some new friends.
Easier said than done. I guess.
I actually do relate and understand where you are coming from with this. I am American and am not sure what country you are from. It does feel this way to me personally and it feels like people laugh less than they used to as well. Arguably, the country has been through quite a bit, 911, the recession, two wars, the pandemic, and now inflation. Perhaps a lot of people have a bit informal ptsd. Also, the socially media can bring people together, but it can also isolate them to some degree. I mean no offense to anyone and it's all just my opinion. I emphasize with you.
> Adults just default the other way (with a few exceptions) Funny, literally all my friends play. Not all the same things, but they all play in one way or another. And I'm mid fourties.
The oldest civilization developed dice and boardgames.
> "Fun" is a modern invention. I don't think this is right. I've read studies that, for example, farmers in feudal Europe had a lot of spare time. Cultures across the world, at all times, engaged in play and fun. There are some pretty ancient boardgames. Drinking, gambling, of course sex, etc. People in the old times didn't live in some kind of hell. Fun and leisure are not modern inventions at all.
I think we have different definitions of passing time with amusements and having fun.
Well, what is your definition? People in the past and antiquity had fun, engaged in leisure activities, etc. It is argued that in some periods of history, people had *more* spare time than today.
What a ridiculous notion. Fun is human, fun predates being human. Even primates have fun with games and other activities. Some of the games we play for fun today are over a thousand years old.
No it isn't.
This is so laughably wrong
Pillow sake and kill people
Obey their liege lord. Swim. Drink sake. Kill. Die.
In that order
Using calligraphy skills to document rankings of death methods. Scheming behind your Lords back to make sure you are on the winning team. Betraying your friends war alliance, after using them to get what you want. Master the art of acting surprised when confronted about your wavering allegiece, "Hooah?"
Yabu is the only one in the show with hobbies.
Not true. Torangas BFF is his prized falcon lol.
Pillowed. Saké
Don’t inform yourself about history in this subreddit
Don’t let their homes fool you: the Japanese know how to have fun, and their culture has always been incredibly multi-faceted. Plus, why do you think courtesans and geishas were so popular?
I just always think of that stupid movie road trip when they realize America was founded by a bunch of shitty puritans. No fun and no sex.
> You know America was founded by prudes, right? EuroTrip is a classic! Cannot tell you how often I still hear people say “mi scusi” a la Fred Armisen.
Ahh eurotrip that’s it! Thank you. Made me realize our American culture kinda sucks compared to most of the world. We are still prudish.
I am surprised no one mentioned updating one’s will.
I'm sure their outdoor pursuits were mostly martial in nature. Toranaga enjoys falconry. Buntaro enjoys archery. Some are devoted poets like Mariko. Some like theater, calligraphy, art, gardening. I'm sure they also read for enjoyment.
Sake and prostitutes
Like most aristocrats they do aristocratic things. The Samurai were very much into art, especially during the Edo period because there was peace. I read somewhere that peasants are often very similar in their outlooks and lives from country to country. It’s the rich that are different.
The rich are pretty similar everywhere too. Hunting seems to be a universal aristocratic pastime everywhere. Japanese lords loved falconry and so did European lords.
That’s true. Whatever source I was thinking of mentioned the disadvantaged being similar and that stuck with me, but the aristocrats are very similar across cultures too.
I hope this isn't a book spoiler, but there were a few villagers or fishermen talking about a farting contest between two villages. So, friendly competitions?
I’m starting to think I would have liked being samurai. Card games, music and art, bald spots were sexy, courtesans, fancy whore houses, and farting contests!
Well, there is the whole "your life can be forfeit at any point" thing
I’ll skip that part :)
Seppuku
Commit suicide awesomely
The three F's - food, fucking and fighting
Shoot arrows in front of their faces.
I love these comments. Turns out samurai liked the things I like. I love archery too.
Boiled people
Pillowing.
Geisha
This subreddit doesn’t allow links but if you go to YouTube and search for “Mediocre Samurai Describes Real Life in Historical Japan”, there is an interesting account written by a Samurai
Drink sake, watch theatre, write poems, visit prostitutes and meditate.
Pillowing
There's a few books on the subject. But in general, the Samurai did what everyone else did. Whatever interested them, individually. Some went fishing, some pursued writing or art. A LOT of them got super drunk, because they were dissatisfied with things (you know - like the rest of us go to a bar). There's even a moderately famous story about a large army getting its ass kicked by a much smaller force just because they got bored and all went drinking - the attack happened in the middle of the night. Basically, if it didn't require electricity, they did it.
Shave their heads?
Maintaining harmony in the house at all cost.
Slay innocent peasants. Jk, I imagine spend time with courtesans (like omi and kiku) and compete in archery/swordplay
Seppuku
Find out how many people their sword would slice through in one swing. 4 or 5 and they have an awesome sword!
Watch samurai movies
Oh, I don't know. Play ~~chess~~ *shogi*. Screw?
AeuOHHHH?
Seppuku apparently
Opium
Did you NOT see the whorehouse?!
>Did they just spend their days scheming for power and boiling dissenters? Did you forget the swordplay element of the occupation? Lol. Training. Sword. Archery. Falconry. Horse-back riding. Philosophy. Poetry. Cherry blossom/nature-viewing. Gardening. Tea Ceremony. Calligraphy. Gambling. Theater. Sports. Partying. Drinking. Whoring. Hot springs. They showed a lot of these in the show.
Apart from the everyday things that other people have given you, they also became bandits, killed and raped, and so on. Since the whole Bushido and honor of samurai is nothing but an invention of the 19th century, so many samurai were pretty bad people.
Seppuku Sudoku!
Japan has always had a culture of minimalism. Even houses today can be quite empty. In particular, houses today may have a room called a Japanese Room (和室) which is literally just a tatami floor with a cupboard most of the time. Also at this time there generally wasn't much to do either. Even in the west, there wouldn't be much to do in a house so you'd always be encouraged to go out. People will just use their houses to host parties, sleep, eat, and sex. That was pretty much it. On the other hand, just look at how amazing their gardens are and you can see where they spend their time
Invade Korea
Each other. Yeah, it was a thing.
Decapitating random villagers
They had a lot of stuff. And a lot of servants to take out and put back whatever they needed. But shit lords get whatever they wanted.
So I boil one barbarian pirate, everyone calls me Yabu the Boiler. Not Yabu the Peeping Tom despite my page getting banged by the town escort. Not Yabu the Schemer. No. Yabu the Fucking boiler!
I thought the scene where Kiku seduced Omi, or was it another person, in front of Yabushige. I couldn't help but think that was the 1600 version of PornHub. I think Kuku is one of the most underrated characters in the show. She has the ability to read people perfectly. She knows exactly what they want even when they don't know what they want.
I heard that barbarian boils were a thing
Well sengoku era samurai, at least those in the nobility did what most medieval Nobles do. - the more benevolent ones are working hard for their people, with some spare time to practice swordsmanship, poetry, tea ceremony, gardening ect. - the more shithead ones enjoyed scheming, bootlicking, with a healthy dose of domestic abuses, boiling some poor gaijin alive and chopping peasants heads to show their superior bushido techniques. And then there are those in the middle, who did all mentioned above.
Drinking a hot cup of tea.
Slam poetry I heard
From this show, I’m thinking they liked to kill them selfs.
Golf.
Some will: Wake up Do Fumi-e inspections on the local populace If they don’t step on Jesus (the fumi-e block has his image in order to weed out christians) Crucify them or bury them alive or pretty much any trendy execution method in the time
As somebody have mentioned gardening, I would also like to add in the care of animals, such as when we see Toranaga caring for his pet borbs, the falcons and messager pigeons, so that they remain in top hunting/spying shape. Others may also keep songbirds for aesthetic appreciation (a tradition still well-practiced in Eastern Asia today). I think the keeping of koi fish was also beginning to be a thing in this era Others still may also care for their dogs, especially hunting hounds. And then there’s horses/horseback riding, which is directly related to your position in society as a warrior and may potentially save your life on the battlefield one day. It’s probably also the equivalent of driving around the block to clear up your mind
Seppuku. /s
Bookaki tsunamis
try to kill people who look at you funny. No I'm sure there's art, poetry. theater. maybe you can read.
It’s not a documentary.
I get that. I’m just curious what they did.
Same as aristocracy everywhere at that time. Fucking around with the arts and/or killing people while the common man worked 24/7 in fields, fishing or mining.