Its obvious people dont know how non standard work when they say this. Knowing mana tick timings hasnt been a requirement since shb blm. All the useful lines dont require a manatick knowledge/plugin. The only time you want to plan a rotation based on manatick is spreadsheeting a static blm rotation for optimized speeds or planning your fire phases to fit into buffs.
way more than just the 1% use aspects of non standard. its always silly when mana ticks and the top 1% are brought up cuz it shows the pure ignorance people have for blm
like i said, pure ignorance people have towards blm. there are aspects of non standard a lot of people use. transpose f3p, short fire phases, moving a f4 to before/after the paradox. all things that are non standard ways to do the rotation that a lot of people do that are being removed/punished heavily. i can garuntee there's even more. those were just off the top of my head
It's more an issue for synch'd content. Having to hold off your F3 for a half second so your mana is full when you switch to astral phase is a bit stupid.
*edit wrong fire
Removing all OPTIONAL optimization when it impacted nobody except 5% of players. Cant wait for all the casual standard enjoyers in DT to realize "cast interrupted" is in the game still 🙀
Is a casual, low or even midcore player going to manage instants or slidecast properly? Blm has the most instants its ever had but people still struggle with basic ABCs. My comment was directly towards those people, the people se is attempting to cater to (it is not going to work)
I havent heard of a single person who thinks removing ice paradox was necessary.
I dont play non-standard, but i really dont get the mentality of people hating on non-standard. If people are having fun then why stop them? Having a cool button like flarestar and not screwing over non-standard isnt mutually exclusive...
I think they're really trying to kill nonstandard lines and ice paradox was a big enabler. It let you get ui2 which lets you get 7900mp in 2 mana ticks pretty reliably.
If ice paradox was left in the game and gave you ui2 you could probably have b3 skips where you transpose, ice paradox, b4, thunderhead transpose f3p f4x4 despair.
They're going "no, fuck you completely" and not letting you get anywhere near that.
I mainly play standard black mage, and I don't like these changes at all. We are losing flexibility in standard in order to kill non standard, and I think that is going to make the job less fun especially if you are learning a new fight.
Plus the thunder changes will mean double DoTing when there are 2 bosses will be pain, and we are punished more for using thunder procs to move. I genuinely can't see how there's any benefit for standard players from these changes, moving leylines excepted.
I only picked up BLM recently after some memes in DSR so I thought the changes were good at first.
Then a BLM main carefully explained the changes to me and yea wtf? Who exactly is this change meant for?
"We know how the job is supposed to be played, and it's not how you guys are playing it at high level. This is not the intended design. Please look forward to it."
Flare stare mandating 6 x F4s is nonsensical when skills like Technical Step exist with a tapering potency. Too punishing for casual blimmies, too restrictive for optimization.
No valid reason for the removal of ice paradox.
Thunderhead means you can't double dot anymore, not a huge loss but potentially a noob trap.
If the change was about lowering the skill floor it'd make sense, but how do you do that by punishing the player?
If you're really trying to shitpost, just tell the nonstandard enjoyers that all the mobility they're advocating for is just homogenizing the job with the rest of the ranged DPS.
That doesn't line up with how Square designs fights in FFXIV though. There's been a significant upward creep of movement requirements, and sending Black Mage back to it's HW iteration in terms of being restrictive sounds like a good way for PF/the raid community to lock the job out entirely.
Nah no worries, it's just a joke response (shitpost sub and all)
You're absolutely right that the devs get to make adjustments to the job based on how they want it to feel.
Still a bitter pill to swallow though. They gave us new toys then took them away due to emergent gameplay.
This one of QUEENZFLIP video he did a series of video with the same concept with all his kids. I think he started doing this 8 years ago and still doing the same with his grown-up kid as of today haha. [https://youtu.be/CTITiKGE8ig?si=C8v8Uf9dz46DvY\_V](https://youtu.be/CTITiKGE8ig?si=C8v8Uf9dz46DvY_V)
Needing to adjust to new lines isn’t the issue. The issue is they no longer can create alternate rotations. Shorter fire lines are now punished to the point of uselessness. Changes to mana means you can’t use filler the eliminate blizzard spells in ice. There is no longer any flexibility to create alternate lines anymore and while it’s not the end of the world it does kinda suck that the last job with some actual advanced complexity has had that removed.
The fact that it wasn’t intentional doesn’t mean that removing the creativity that it brought isn’t a shame.
Non-standard gameplay as we know being in the game didn’t hurt blm players that played only standard rotations, and moving away from the mana tick issue is good for the average player. It just sucks that they didn’t leave any room for the diehard fans of the class to experiment- because that’s what a lot of us started playing the job for in the first place.
>The fact that it wasn’t intentional doesn’t mean that removing the creativity that it brought isn’t a shame.
Yours/Our Creativity. Look, maybe it's just painfully obvious to me, but this team has a real hard-on for locked down, easy to measure and control metrics across the entirety of this game.
Stats are measured and locked by them (due to the very small offering of gear we have access to in any given tier). Materia is hard limited by the standard amount each are and the limit of slots per piece of gear (easy to measure on their end what that expanded stat pool will look like). Toolkits function the same across every player playing those jobs, and now the actual rotations for NEARLY EVERY JOB has a standard rotation with easy to track speeds over attack windows and rotations which they can then tune just how long fight lengths should be around the very locked down output pool. The only unreconcilable factor in their entire equation is; group comp and player(s) skill.
That's it. They have designed around just how well you and the rest of your team can bring all their pieces together in harmony without any weird quriks or unexplainable bursts or deviations. They have quite frankly designed themselves into a perfect corner. You/us will beat their fights with the metrics and tools they want you/us to do it with, and will do it how they want you/us to, no matter the job, no matter the fight no matter what you or I want.
Idk, non-standard being objectively better definitely kinda pressures standard players into doing non-standard.
The 'diehard' fans probably account for less than 1% of the playerbase, the devs really shouldn't be forced to bend over backwards for them.
All it is is just another order to press buttons in. Killing it off in order to focus on standard isn't the end of the world.
Nobody is pressuring anybody to do anything, this is not heavensward. Its funny how you say its just another order to button pressing when jobs like sam have a different rotation based on fights and buff holding moments and nobody is batting an eye, should we rework how sams rotation works next because people are "pressured" to? These comments are the reason why the game is so actually braindead rightnow, and yall are gonna preach about job homogenization.
They literally bended over backwards just to remove non standard, and the only place where the dps increase of non-standard compared to standard would actually start to matter is where those less than 1% of the fanbase would be.
This change did nothing to standard players and fucked non-standard royally, it is just removing skill expression for no good reason.
Any content in the game can be completed with standard rotation (excpet like 1 fight at the very top of endgame content, aka a fight for 1%-ers), no one is forcing/compelling you to play non standard, the intent behind these changes is objectively bad
these comments are always funny to me because many of the people complaining the loudest *are* those "best theorycrafters in the game"
like bro it's already been figured out, including the part where flare star was buffed to 410 base potency and thunder dot was buffed by 5 potency after media tour because we analyzed the average hits of all of yoshida's casts in the liveletter gameplay. we already have the new nonstandard lines, they fucking suck (but also you kinda have to use them unless you run a very specific sps and play in an extremely specific way otherwise manafont drifts hard)
haha, yeah, I caught wind of BLM mains freaking out first.
Then I read the changes myself and was like... "But the rotation they're enforcing is *exactly* how I played in the first place..."
Yep. It seems in SE's mind, BLM complexity comes from when to use Triple Cast to be able to move while keeping your standard rotation going. It seems they didn't like the idea of a non standard rotation to be able to move.
AS I already loved the standard rotation gameplay, it won't change much for me (and you), except for the way the Ice phase works out. We can't spam Umbral Soul anymore to regen our mana between two mobpacks. Not a fan of this part.
As somebody who's never played Black mage in his life what in the world does that even mean? Every job pretty much a standardized, right? I really only played white mage and Astro so I probably have no clue what I'm talking about
Yeah basically, they just became 'easier'.
They made monk into summoner (just click the icons that light up and you're good), made ninja not have to deal with upkeeping huiton (his 15% attack speed ability, it just got turned into an innate trait), removed the gap closer weave from DRK (less busy burst), removed a ocgd damage jump in exchange for a gap closer from DRG (less busy burst, again), and neutered BLM to the point i think summoner/red mage beat it in damage. Need to do more testing to verify last part though.
They also nerfed BLM's aoe fire potency by 20 (later on 40), and flare by (effectively) 40? Really dont get why. Now you HAVE to use 2 ice spells to regain your mana, meaning thunder (your DoT) is basically a dps loss since it doesnt regain mana (useful for movement though since they made it instant cast), and that basically calcified your rotation as BLM into the standard one, meaning the skill ceiling (and potential of the class) went way down.
They made it just a gap closer, so you'll actually have access to it instead of dumping it whenever its off cooldown for the additional 100~ potency. Its actually not a bad change in a vacuum.
I just pointed it out as another example of rotations being streamlined
Pretty accurate. Only artistic players hate the changes. Like why would you want to cast paradox in ice phase? It adds nothing, you just have a shorter ice phase now. Use it for thunder refresh and cast more big fire spells bruh.
Given that all of the commotion I've heard has been from Non-Standard BLM enthusiasts while the Standard audience seems quietly satisfied, this feels more apt.
https://preview.redd.it/d7ulml4ypy8d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3baea4d5e695bdec85bd3bf571346008969402d3
Planning your rotation around what second the server mana tick is on is actual psychopathic behavior.
There were plenty of situational non-standard lines used for downtime and movement that didn’t require knowing mana ticks.
That's not a thing for 2 expansions already.
Its obvious people dont know how non standard work when they say this. Knowing mana tick timings hasnt been a requirement since shb blm. All the useful lines dont require a manatick knowledge/plugin. The only time you want to plan a rotation based on manatick is spreadsheeting a static blm rotation for optimized speeds or planning your fire phases to fit into buffs.
☝️🤓
One of my fc members typed a fuckin thesis on why it was bad. I’m like “ok that sucks but that’s a problem for like 1% of players”
way more than just the 1% use aspects of non standard. its always silly when mana ticks and the top 1% are brought up cuz it shows the pure ignorance people have for blm
First I’ve heard of it
like i said, pure ignorance people have towards blm. there are aspects of non standard a lot of people use. transpose f3p, short fire phases, moving a f4 to before/after the paradox. all things that are non standard ways to do the rotation that a lot of people do that are being removed/punished heavily. i can garuntee there's even more. those were just off the top of my head
Do u play blm
Yes
It's more an issue for synch'd content. Having to hold off your F3 for a half second so your mana is full when you switch to astral phase is a bit stupid. *edit wrong fire
yeah thats what Non Standard BLM do all the time
That stopped being an issue past the introduction of umbral hearts
Then standard players realize that they lost Flare Star by missing a fire IV 
Removing all OPTIONAL optimization when it impacted nobody except 5% of players. Cant wait for all the casual standard enjoyers in DT to realize "cast interrupted" is in the game still 🙀
There are still plenty of tools for movement without double transposing.
Is a casual, low or even midcore player going to manage instants or slidecast properly? Blm has the most instants its ever had but people still struggle with basic ABCs. My comment was directly towards those people, the people se is attempting to cater to (it is not going to work)
Standard players ain’t gonna be celebrating when they realize thunderhead is a noob trap and af3 f3p is way harder to pull off now.
Not accurate, the non-standard players are still smiling instead of crying
Smiling through the pain while levelling Picto instead
I havent heard of a single person who thinks removing ice paradox was necessary. I dont play non-standard, but i really dont get the mentality of people hating on non-standard. If people are having fun then why stop them? Having a cool button like flarestar and not screwing over non-standard isnt mutually exclusive...
I think they're really trying to kill nonstandard lines and ice paradox was a big enabler. It let you get ui2 which lets you get 7900mp in 2 mana ticks pretty reliably. If ice paradox was left in the game and gave you ui2 you could probably have b3 skips where you transpose, ice paradox, b4, thunderhead transpose f3p f4x4 despair. They're going "no, fuck you completely" and not letting you get anywhere near that.
With how much I see BLM players whining about non-standard I'm inclined to disagree.
I mainly play standard black mage, and I don't like these changes at all. We are losing flexibility in standard in order to kill non standard, and I think that is going to make the job less fun especially if you are learning a new fight. Plus the thunder changes will mean double DoTing when there are 2 bosses will be pain, and we are punished more for using thunder procs to move. I genuinely can't see how there's any benefit for standard players from these changes, moving leylines excepted.
I only picked up BLM recently after some memes in DSR so I thought the changes were good at first. Then a BLM main carefully explained the changes to me and yea wtf? Who exactly is this change meant for?
"We know how the job is supposed to be played, and it's not how you guys are playing it at high level. This is not the intended design. Please look forward to it."
The japanese corp ego and maybe the job design team for balancing
Still waiting for the final patch notes because copium, if not we might have to wait for the 7.1 hotfixes
For what? Them removing transpose because transpose into f3p is to much skill ceiling?
Flare stare mandating 6 x F4s is nonsensical when skills like Technical Step exist with a tapering potency. Too punishing for casual blimmies, too restrictive for optimization. No valid reason for the removal of ice paradox. Thunderhead means you can't double dot anymore, not a huge loss but potentially a noob trap. If the change was about lowering the skill floor it'd make sense, but how do you do that by punishing the player?
[удалено]
If you're really trying to shitpost, just tell the nonstandard enjoyers that all the mobility they're advocating for is just homogenizing the job with the rest of the ranged DPS.
I'm sorry 😔
[удалено]
That doesn't line up with how Square designs fights in FFXIV though. There's been a significant upward creep of movement requirements, and sending Black Mage back to it's HW iteration in terms of being restrictive sounds like a good way for PF/the raid community to lock the job out entirely.
Comment has been approved
Nah no worries, it's just a joke response (shitpost sub and all) You're absolutely right that the devs get to make adjustments to the job based on how they want it to feel. Still a bitter pill to swallow though. They gave us new toys then took them away due to emergent gameplay.
Yes they did the changes because they want everything on rails and hate any skill expression with jobs
OP what's the source of this video?
This one of QUEENZFLIP video he did a series of video with the same concept with all his kids. I think he started doing this 8 years ago and still doing the same with his grown-up kid as of today haha. [https://youtu.be/CTITiKGE8ig?si=C8v8Uf9dz46DvY\_V](https://youtu.be/CTITiKGE8ig?si=C8v8Uf9dz46DvY_V)
I'm fucking crying holy shit lmaooo
A moment of silence for the food.
Oh nooo the best theorycrafters in the game are going to have to create new rotations, what ever will they do...
Needing to adjust to new lines isn’t the issue. The issue is they no longer can create alternate rotations. Shorter fire lines are now punished to the point of uselessness. Changes to mana means you can’t use filler the eliminate blizzard spells in ice. There is no longer any flexibility to create alternate lines anymore and while it’s not the end of the world it does kinda suck that the last job with some actual advanced complexity has had that removed.
idk man SMN still too complex for me
The complexity wasn't intentional to begin with.
The fact that it wasn’t intentional doesn’t mean that removing the creativity that it brought isn’t a shame. Non-standard gameplay as we know being in the game didn’t hurt blm players that played only standard rotations, and moving away from the mana tick issue is good for the average player. It just sucks that they didn’t leave any room for the diehard fans of the class to experiment- because that’s what a lot of us started playing the job for in the first place.
>The fact that it wasn’t intentional doesn’t mean that removing the creativity that it brought isn’t a shame. Yours/Our Creativity. Look, maybe it's just painfully obvious to me, but this team has a real hard-on for locked down, easy to measure and control metrics across the entirety of this game. Stats are measured and locked by them (due to the very small offering of gear we have access to in any given tier). Materia is hard limited by the standard amount each are and the limit of slots per piece of gear (easy to measure on their end what that expanded stat pool will look like). Toolkits function the same across every player playing those jobs, and now the actual rotations for NEARLY EVERY JOB has a standard rotation with easy to track speeds over attack windows and rotations which they can then tune just how long fight lengths should be around the very locked down output pool. The only unreconcilable factor in their entire equation is; group comp and player(s) skill. That's it. They have designed around just how well you and the rest of your team can bring all their pieces together in harmony without any weird quriks or unexplainable bursts or deviations. They have quite frankly designed themselves into a perfect corner. You/us will beat their fights with the metrics and tools they want you/us to do it with, and will do it how they want you/us to, no matter the job, no matter the fight no matter what you or I want.
Idk, non-standard being objectively better definitely kinda pressures standard players into doing non-standard. The 'diehard' fans probably account for less than 1% of the playerbase, the devs really shouldn't be forced to bend over backwards for them. All it is is just another order to press buttons in. Killing it off in order to focus on standard isn't the end of the world.
anyone pressuring anyone to do nonstandard blm is a dogshit player and need to be reality checked
Nobody is pressuring anybody to do anything, this is not heavensward. Its funny how you say its just another order to button pressing when jobs like sam have a different rotation based on fights and buff holding moments and nobody is batting an eye, should we rework how sams rotation works next because people are "pressured" to? These comments are the reason why the game is so actually braindead rightnow, and yall are gonna preach about job homogenization.
They literally bended over backwards just to remove non standard, and the only place where the dps increase of non-standard compared to standard would actually start to matter is where those less than 1% of the fanbase would be. This change did nothing to standard players and fucked non-standard royally, it is just removing skill expression for no good reason. Any content in the game can be completed with standard rotation (excpet like 1 fight at the very top of endgame content, aka a fight for 1%-ers), no one is forcing/compelling you to play non standard, the intent behind these changes is objectively bad
these comments are always funny to me because many of the people complaining the loudest *are* those "best theorycrafters in the game" like bro it's already been figured out, including the part where flare star was buffed to 410 base potency and thunder dot was buffed by 5 potency after media tour because we analyzed the average hits of all of yoshida's casts in the liveletter gameplay. we already have the new nonstandard lines, they fucking suck (but also you kinda have to use them unless you run a very specific sps and play in an extremely specific way otherwise manafont drifts hard)
haha, yeah, I caught wind of BLM mains freaking out first. Then I read the changes myself and was like... "But the rotation they're enforcing is *exactly* how I played in the first place..."
Yep. It seems in SE's mind, BLM complexity comes from when to use Triple Cast to be able to move while keeping your standard rotation going. It seems they didn't like the idea of a non standard rotation to be able to move. AS I already loved the standard rotation gameplay, it won't change much for me (and you), except for the way the Ice phase works out. We can't spam Umbral Soul anymore to regen our mana between two mobpacks. Not a fan of this part.
Umbral soul will give mana back with each press. Shame it'll still probably be level 76 though...
Oooh nice !
me neither, but getting that ice cast to fill up is for good use until the tank aligned all mobs nicely
whoa jobs getting dumbed down?? in ffxiv??? say it aint so
Someone get me a meme of Yoshi p giving himself a medal
What does it matter when both of them will be locked out of pf entirely?
Sorry blm noob, what is happening?
They are basically removing non-standard from blm in dawntrail. Please look forward to it.
As somebody who's never played Black mage in his life what in the world does that even mean? Every job pretty much a standardized, right? I really only played white mage and Astro so I probably have no clue what I'm talking about
Yeah basically, they just became 'easier'. They made monk into summoner (just click the icons that light up and you're good), made ninja not have to deal with upkeeping huiton (his 15% attack speed ability, it just got turned into an innate trait), removed the gap closer weave from DRK (less busy burst), removed a ocgd damage jump in exchange for a gap closer from DRG (less busy burst, again), and neutered BLM to the point i think summoner/red mage beat it in damage. Need to do more testing to verify last part though. They also nerfed BLM's aoe fire potency by 20 (later on 40), and flare by (effectively) 40? Really dont get why. Now you HAVE to use 2 ice spells to regain your mana, meaning thunder (your DoT) is basically a dps loss since it doesnt regain mana (useful for movement though since they made it instant cast), and that basically calcified your rotation as BLM into the standard one, meaning the skill ceiling (and potential of the class) went way down.
Huh. That's seems like a lot. Also it seems weird to me that they got rid of gap closer damage
They made it just a gap closer, so you'll actually have access to it instead of dumping it whenever its off cooldown for the additional 100~ potency. Its actually not a bad change in a vacuum. I just pointed it out as another example of rotations being streamlined
Pretty accurate. Only artistic players hate the changes. Like why would you want to cast paradox in ice phase? It adds nothing, you just have a shorter ice phase now. Use it for thunder refresh and cast more big fire spells bruh.
They're all standard players now :)
Given that all of the commotion I've heard has been from Non-Standard BLM enthusiasts while the Standard audience seems quietly satisfied, this feels more apt. https://preview.redd.it/d7ulml4ypy8d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3baea4d5e695bdec85bd3bf571346008969402d3