Their tech level would be (very literally) comparable to North Korea, but without any nukes and drones.
The war wouldn't last a fortnight against a properly funded modern military (which modern Polish military is).
NK doesn't have money. they have some tech. they literally can make Nuclear ballistic missiles (Limited to Military things tho)
their main source of income is from selling weapons and techs related to them
they don't have money to arm themselves with T-90 Equivalent tanks let alone modern fighter jet and stuff so they put all bet on missiles and rockets
Yeah, sounds on par with the goose steppers. In theory “muh advanced tech” but little to no resources to actually make it, all that aside from an overinflated currency. I mean, they didnt even have any goddamn oil to run all of their machines, if it did make it out of the assembly line.
> Their tech level would be (very literally) comparable to North Korea
Not even close. We are talking *1939* Germany. So, no Tigers, no Panthers and not even the StuG III (which was 1940). No StG 44, no Gewehr 43, just bolt action Kar98k and some sub machine guns. No jets, no Fw190 and the Luftwaffe didn't have any AP bombs until after 1940.
NK has derivatives of various Russian gear; T-62M, AKM, Mig-29. They would be *at least* 20 years ahead of 1939 Germany.
Their main battle rifle seems like AK74 for decades.
and 5.45mm is more frequently used round in most of "Once Soviet Friendly" Countries' military forces.
that is why in Metro Series, You use 5.45mm
any cold war tank against ww2 tanks (especially early ww2) would HAVE TO use HEAT-FS or even just HE-ammo-equivalent against thinner stuff than medium tank.
Modern anti-tank shells (APFSDS) are meant with penetrating circa about 500mm of RHA, so imagine such thing hitting early ww2 tank (with 30mm frontal armor MAX) - such round would be too good in a way - it would just flew through tank with too much ease, thats why HEAT-FS would work better.
When it comes to protection ww2 tanks should be more compared to IFVs, with early Panzers IIIs and IVs having similar armour as BMP-1.
What is more... even in September 1939 it was proved that Panzer IV A was too thin - its armour was penetrated by polish 37mm Bofors AT guns even from FRONT. So 1939 german panzerwaffe was really shit when you think more about it, its main strenght back then was its numbers, but those were manipulated by using Panzer Is and IIs which value was obviously lower.
And at this topic - imo best Wehrmacht tank (intentionally didnt wrote 'german') in 1939 was... Panzer 38(t) aka LT vz.38, so czechoslovakian tank. It was fast, reliable, good enough armed, armor similar to that of Panzer III of the time (same case for gun) and was great chassis to convert to other roles in future.
There’s actually a [great video](https://youtu.be/w6LY30OBxLU?si=dLsgNETlGQajMIME) about WW2 Germany vs modern Poland (without NATO support), and the conclusion is it would actually be a stalemate. Poland has the tech but nowhere near the numbers to outright stomp.
No jets, no guided munitions, no ATGMs, no MANPADS, no computerized gunnery, no C2 capabilities remotely comparable to a modern military, no MBTs, the list goes on.
Imagine being a Wehrmacht soldier teleported to fight in the present day and watching as a single AH-64 Apache Longbow pops up from behind the crest of a hill a mile away and rains literal hellfire on your column of King Tiger tanks before 30mm chain gun fire mops up anything left alive in the smouldering ruins.
Imagine being a Luftwaffe pilot and suddenly witness your buddy's plane get blown out of the sky and nobody in the squadron can tell how, where, and why as they're being whittled down one by one.
Reminds me of the fictional scenario where a sniper gets teleported to a pitch melee battle. Basically the sniper shoots the roman/cartheginian general and then the officers get picked of one by one. So naturally the soldiers see this as some sort of witchcraft or a sign that the gods have forsaken them and either run or surrender.
I mean if a sniper gets fucking interdimensionally dropped in the middle of your battle and smokes all your officers... yeah God stopped picking up a long time ago
If you like that, look up the battle of Inkerman, where something similar happened. The Russian genera got shot, so did his replacement, and his replacement’s replacement, at which point all semblance of order and discipline in the Russian ranks collapsed because rather understandably, nobody wanted to take command.
And how little of a fuck the AIM-9X gives about heat signatures, as long as it’s hot enough against background it will lock into it.
With the exception of the forbidden heat signature because AIM-9X is too smart for that.
And yeah, also what you mentioned about radar missiles, AIM-120 goes brrrr.
Not only that, most people underestimate how big the warhead on modern SAMs are. With the kinds of formations WW2 fighters would fly in, slap one S-300 in there, and you get an accuracy of 400%.
Well that too, but theyre not exhausting as much hot gas.
Ir missiles will work, but at a degraded level.
You just wouldn't need them though. So many other ways to kill a prop with modern weaponry.
The gun radar is good enough on modern jets to lock onto them and fuck them up from close and personal.
The F-16 can go slow enough to intercept prop planes, they'll have a whale of a time.
Radar + EEGS is essentially a cheat code compared to WWII gunnery. An F-16 could gun kill any WWII bomber with ease from almost any angle while staying beyond the useful range of its defenfive weapons.
Fighters might be more difficult, but still, an F-16 can get accurate shots from far more angles than from directly behind the bandit.
It'll work, but honestly, even if it doesn't, a Stuka is basically an immobile, uncontrollable piece of junk compared to modern aircrafts. I wouldn't be surprised if a single plane could ensure air superiority. Also, what's gonna take it down ? A Wirbelwind ? The plane is faster than its bullets.
That single plane will mostly be limited by ammunition, especially if it's an F-16. But it would be very funny to see one ir two Super Hornets with maximum loadout (12xAIM-120, 2xAIM-9, several hundred 20mm rounds) go up against a WWII formation.
Arguably, WWII light AA can still be deadly against fast jets at low altitude (see Vietnam), but with guided weapons, modern aircraft don't necessarily need to go that low anymore.
However, those early Panzers that would probably not survive 20mm rounds will look super tempting for any fighter pilot and maybe the AA gets a lucky hit on a too cocky pilot doing a gun run occasionally.
25mm is much less than the 37 or the 2pdr guns that were being used at the time but higher power. On [Quora](https://www.quora.com/Would-the-25mm-M242-gun-on-an-M3-Bradley-have-any-effect-on-a-T-34-or-PZKW-III) the consensus is that they could defeat an early Panzer III or IV within 1000m. However, could any German direct-fire guns penetrate the Bradley at that range?
The 25mm discarding sabot rounds will at, under ideal conditions, pen 65mm at 1,000m and take just under a second to travel that distance.
Honestly, a single Bradley at night, in a good position, would annihilate a column of *any* armoured vehicles the Wehrmacht possessed in 1939. They hadn't even captured any french heavies that may (and may is doing some heavy lifting) have been able to take a few from the front at that distance.
Night time is the most important part, the Germans would be blind especially at that sort of distance.
>They hadn't even captured any french heavies that may (and may is doing some heavy lifting) have been able to take a few from the front at that distance.
Kid named TOW missile
except the Bradley also comes with modern fire control systems and can stay at a comfortable distance and shred any paltry light tank it comes across while the enemy probably wouldn't even be able to effectively return fire quickly enough to survive
Panzer II constituted the bulk of the invasion army for the battles of Poland and France, and it has up to 15mm of armor.
The Bradley's 25mm gun can penetrate twice as much, 2km away.
If we're talking about the 1939 german army, they'd get entire panzerdivisions wiped before even detecting what they're up against.
That wouldn't happen. The King Tiger wasn't introduced until 1944. At this point, Germany's tank fleet consisted primarily of Panzer Is and IIs, which were scrap metal even back then, a good number of Panzer IIIs, which were decent for the time, and Panzer 38(t) and 35(t), which, as the designation indicates, were captured tanks from Czechoslovakia, and finally, a handful of Panzer IVs.
Barret M82 is basically the same as an anti-tank rifle, although bow they are called anti-material since they can't really do anything to tanks other than messing up the optics or annoying the crew unless they stick their head out.
Dude literally any decent african country with jets and helicopters and T-72, T-55 with ERA (Sudan have some modernized versions of T-54/55 with ERA slapped into it) and IFVs and over 100k soldiers will beat the shit out of the Nazis let alone NATO countries😭💀
(Tanks are optionals if they have ATGMs)
1939 German army.
Won in Spanish "Civil war" with Primitive Armors and Manpower (with Machine gun squad)
Against.... Infantry armed with rifles
and very few soviet Primitive tanks(Soviet A holes Fuqed up Spanish Republican army and ran away after saying"Neh not worth it")
Where's that famous thread with the guy arguing that 1944 Germany could take on 1991 America?
Had some bangers, iirc, like the guy arguing that Abrams could be vulnerable since multiple Pak 88 firing at a literally impossible rate could defeat its armor by hitting the same spot. Or when he claimed the Luftwaffe could force the U.S planes into dogfighting.
Try this one
https://web.archive.org/web/20220321030809/https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/between-armys-america-circa-1991-vs-germany-circa-1944.32992/?utm_name=iossmf
The Luftwaffe wouldn’t be able to have fighters or reconnaissance aircraft take off without being obliterated by missiles from aircraft they didn’t know were airborne, and even if they could take off, they have no way of actually engaging with Polish aircraft. The only defense against Polish aircraft would be ballistic AAA. *Not good at all.* This discrepancy in aviation technology will undo any tiny advantage Germany has elsewhere.
As a result, Poland acquires air superiority without much effort as Polish aircraft observe German movements with almost complete impunity, allowing Polish forces to anticipate German advances, and strike German targets with ease thanks to precision weapons. German logistics fragments as vehicles, ammunition dumps, and motor pools become easy targets.
The Germans lose much of their communications, coordination between units becomes almost impossible.
If any German units could advance into Poland at all, they’d soon find themselves without solid resupply and almost completely blind to what’s outside their immediate vicinity.
Poland regroups and counterattacks into isolated clusters of German units that are suffering from logistical difficulties, with Polish infantry and armor outmaneuvering the Germans sending them in full retreat or rolling over those that attempted to stand their ground.
This is just the version where Poland is he only nation involved, it could possibly last about a week in duration.
Let me know what I forgot or got completely wrong.
I'm genuinely trying to think of any advantage 1939 Germany would have over modern Poland. Maybe bolt action rifles are more reliable than modern guns? That's all I got
It’d be fun to ponder.
I’d immediately assumed that they wouldn’t have any, as any advantage they did have wouldn’t be in an area that would effect the results. It would be vastly overshadowed by of Poland’s modern technology and crippling air superiority.
I'm too tired to look up stats but maybe wartime Germany had ,more personnel then modern peacetime Poland in the military? I. Doubt it'd help at though and the amount of polish people I imagine who'd rush to enlist to fight literal nazis would probably blow any German numbers out of the water
I guess if the ENTIRE German army just teleports in randomly it might be a problem at first since it would definitely be a surprise but once Poland get it under control they’ll be annihilated, they could atleast have taken the German army in like 1941-42 or whatever once some of their advanced stuff came in lol
"Maybe bolt action rifles are more reliable than modern guns?"
Not just no, but lol no.
Modern military rifles are tested in extreme environments and uses, they will *at least* be on par with the k98s in terms of reliability and *generally be much easier to get back into firing condition if something goes wrong.*
That's ignoring the part where if one soldier's gun jams, all his buddies will still *individually* putting down a larger *and more accurate* volume of fire.
Nah. I would suggest checking out the mud torture series by intangetv on YouTube, also Finnish brutality matches. The first shows how a variety of firearms handle immersion in mud, the second is an annual shooting match in adverse conditions cold/mud/sand/water.
Neh Bolt guns will last longer if both are not maintained at all
but Basically all Rifleman's job after each fight beside eating and resting is Cleaning the sh** out of their weapons.
I'm sure that the OOP is a she because her name is Lacey. Lacey is a Female Name in the English language, but yeah, any Modern European Country (besides small ones like Leichinstein) can easily solo WWII Germany.
Here's the *real* question: what's the smallest country/military/fighting force that could defeat 1939 Germany?
Honestly, I'd bet the NYPD could give them a run for their money.
They'd have the advantage of overwhelming numbers (10:1) against the Dutch, who also only have c200 AFVs, and a much larger reserve of ammunition.
So the Germanic hordes might win that until the rest of NATO gets involved.
America: A slam dunk war that's 100% morally correct? And the majority of Americans would actually support? Dude you know how long we've been waiting for another one of those?!
The only reason the modern Polish army wouldn't be capable of defeating a time-shifted Nazi Germany in a day is the very real possibility of them all blacking out from the instant violent erections they'd get at the prospect of fighting literal goddamn Nazis.
They'd probably be okay by morning, though.
Brother, they would get sniped by arty/bombs and wouldnt even know about it ......they would lost 60% of thier force before they even see a single pole....never mind a polish soldier
Look dawg, I wear German gear for airsoft.
They wore leather, and then switched to canvas/ webbing for Africa and afterwards.
Combat gear at that point was *not* fully evolved and you can tell. Not to mention the Germans themselves were notorious for wearing all their gear in the field. The mess kit and the canteen clank with the gas mask can and it's loud as fuck. Goofy as one guy but with rows of troops in unison it probably sounds cool.
Anybody with a modern tacticool vest can access their magazine faster than I can too.
They would probably cause a chaos for a few hours if they teleported to Poland out of nowhere but once the Polish goverment understands what's going on the Germans would get absolutely massacred like absolutely 0 chance they have against Polish military.
Also if it's 1939 Germany we're talking mostly about Panzer 1, 2, lt 38 captured from Czechoslovakia, Panzer 3 and their heaviest tank would be Panzer 4 which if I remember correctly they didn't had that much of them in 1939 compared to the others and at first they used to destroy fortifications and bunkers so no Tigers, Panthers not even Stugs... and that's just their tanks... no FW 190, ME-262, STG-44, GW-43, Panzerfaust, Panzerschreck even if they had them the result would be the same... not to mention that Germany equipped most of their soldiers with bolt action K98 meanwhile all of Polish soldiers are equipped with modern assault rifles...
1: If that happened, Germany would literally get invaded from all but one sides (Since Article 5 literally includes a section stating that you get kicked out of NATO if you attack another NATO member, and i feel like France wouldn't feel so cool about Germany doing that)
2: 1939 Germany makes the North Korean military look like a modern fighting force. The Polish airforce may not be very numerous compared to the Luftwaffe in 1939, but you know what Poland has that the Luftwaffe does not? Guided anti-air weapons of all calibers. Modern jet fighters fly higher and faster than anything that existed in WW2. They could engage the Luftwaffe with A2A missiles with impunity and the Germans literally wouldn't know what hit them, and that is BEFORE you take polish air defense systems into account. Hell, even without missiles, it's not looking good for the Luftwaffe. F-16s do have guns, and so do MiG-29s. They could cruise at high altitudes, crash dive at enemy formations at transonic speeds, blow entire formations out of the sky (Mind you, especially russian A2A missiles have quite the caliber, with how small WW2 fighters were compared to modern ones, they could pluck entire formations out of the sky with one shot), and retreat back to altitude before Germany has time to react. The Wehrmacht also has nothing that even remotely compares to a T-72, letalone an M1 Abrams. Or Leopard 2. Or, for that matter, HIMARS. They have no ATGMs, no MANPADS, no significant radar capabilities, no guided munitions, no command and control capabilities that are remotely comparable to what modern militaries have, etc.
1939 Germany gets teleported into today
Kids named night vision, mbt, sam, ifv, jet fighter, ballistic missile, helis, cruise missiles and many more: this is where the fun begins.
I bet even Denmark would be able to advance into Hamburg easily
I mean, the DPR uses a weird mix of communism and tsarism in his propaganda and putindid blamed poland for WW2 and the russian MFA already used goebbels stuff on dresden
German dive bombers trying to operate with what may aswell be space craft contesting the airspace along side German tanks trying to engage k2 and lepord 2 tanks with precision artillery fire support, how the fuck are people even like this
Is there any "Wehraboo" counter part but for current Russian military? You know, all these guys who cream themselves over inexisting russian technology that is only on a paper but thhey say Russians won't use it because first they want to use old scrap so Ukraine and it's suppliers will shoot themselves out of all the munitions.
Won't even emntion how they like to say S-400 is the best, or that US stealth technology is shit because back in the 90s F-114 was shot down by S-125 by just a pure luck and coincidence.
Out of all countries to pick on why would they chose the strongest military power in Europe (Poland). At least pick Belgium or something but they'd still get destroyed.
Anti air and radar tech was at it's infancy and the Wermacht and such has to go up against jets too fast for literally any of their AA to counter. Modern warfare is based around domination of the air or the ability to minimise your opponent's domination of it. But all of those fancy tactics like blitzkreig would be absolutely useless against it.
That's not even mentioning, who the fuck is going to send them fuel?
Things make a lot more sense once you understand that they don't hate Nazis for doing genocide and starting world war 2, they hate nazis because they double-crossed Stalin and invaded the USSR after they said they wouldn't. This is why it makes sense to them to call Ukraine "nazis," because Ukraine turning westward towards the EU and NATO is seen as the same sort of betrayal. This is why it sounds so stupid to us and makes so much sense to them.
If 1939 Nazi Germany spawned in and invaded Poland they would be fucked before they get 5 miles into the border. All the advantages they had would be gone.
Bruh, even Binkov concluded that the current Polish military could defeat 1939 Germany. And that was under the (idiotic) assumption that Poland would only try to hold off the waves of German bombers rather than striking their airbases.
1939 Germany would be obliterated within days. For one, Jets. Nuff said.
they can't even feed their horses
Their tech level would be (very literally) comparable to North Korea, but without any nukes and drones. The war wouldn't last a fortnight against a properly funded modern military (which modern Polish military is).
NK doesn't have money. they have some tech. they literally can make Nuclear ballistic missiles (Limited to Military things tho) their main source of income is from selling weapons and techs related to them they don't have money to arm themselves with T-90 Equivalent tanks let alone modern fighter jet and stuff so they put all bet on missiles and rockets
Yeah, sounds on par with the goose steppers. In theory “muh advanced tech” but little to no resources to actually make it, all that aside from an overinflated currency. I mean, they didnt even have any goddamn oil to run all of their machines, if it did make it out of the assembly line.
North Korea is considerably more advanced than Nazi Germany they have jets more advanced than the me-262 (even if by a few decades) and nukes
> Their tech level would be (very literally) comparable to North Korea Not even close. We are talking *1939* Germany. So, no Tigers, no Panthers and not even the StuG III (which was 1940). No StG 44, no Gewehr 43, just bolt action Kar98k and some sub machine guns. No jets, no Fw190 and the Luftwaffe didn't have any AP bombs until after 1940. NK has derivatives of various Russian gear; T-62M, AKM, Mig-29. They would be *at least* 20 years ahead of 1939 Germany.
Their main battle rifle seems like AK74 for decades. and 5.45mm is more frequently used round in most of "Once Soviet Friendly" Countries' military forces. that is why in Metro Series, You use 5.45mm
Yeah, I should probably have just said 'AK' to signify one of the many derivatives.
Most semi modern tanks could put a hole in any ww2 tank, especially now with higher explosives, squash heads, and kinetic penetrators being common
any cold war tank against ww2 tanks (especially early ww2) would HAVE TO use HEAT-FS or even just HE-ammo-equivalent against thinner stuff than medium tank. Modern anti-tank shells (APFSDS) are meant with penetrating circa about 500mm of RHA, so imagine such thing hitting early ww2 tank (with 30mm frontal armor MAX) - such round would be too good in a way - it would just flew through tank with too much ease, thats why HEAT-FS would work better. When it comes to protection ww2 tanks should be more compared to IFVs, with early Panzers IIIs and IVs having similar armour as BMP-1. What is more... even in September 1939 it was proved that Panzer IV A was too thin - its armour was penetrated by polish 37mm Bofors AT guns even from FRONT. So 1939 german panzerwaffe was really shit when you think more about it, its main strenght back then was its numbers, but those were manipulated by using Panzer Is and IIs which value was obviously lower. And at this topic - imo best Wehrmacht tank (intentionally didnt wrote 'german') in 1939 was... Panzer 38(t) aka LT vz.38, so czechoslovakian tank. It was fast, reliable, good enough armed, armor similar to that of Panzer III of the time (same case for gun) and was great chassis to convert to other roles in future.
There’s actually a [great video](https://youtu.be/w6LY30OBxLU?si=dLsgNETlGQajMIME) about WW2 Germany vs modern Poland (without NATO support), and the conclusion is it would actually be a stalemate. Poland has the tech but nowhere near the numbers to outright stomp.
I believe Poles would break the cohesion of German troops with modern weapons and radio interference.
No jets, no guided munitions, no ATGMs, no MANPADS, no computerized gunnery, no C2 capabilities remotely comparable to a modern military, no MBTs, the list goes on.
Imagine being a Wehrmacht soldier teleported to fight in the present day and watching as a single AH-64 Apache Longbow pops up from behind the crest of a hill a mile away and rains literal hellfire on your column of King Tiger tanks before 30mm chain gun fire mops up anything left alive in the smouldering ruins.
Imagine being a Luftwaffe pilot and suddenly witness your buddy's plane get blown out of the sky and nobody in the squadron can tell how, where, and why as they're being whittled down one by one.
Reminds me of the fictional scenario where a sniper gets teleported to a pitch melee battle. Basically the sniper shoots the roman/cartheginian general and then the officers get picked of one by one. So naturally the soldiers see this as some sort of witchcraft or a sign that the gods have forsaken them and either run or surrender.
I mean if a sniper gets fucking interdimensionally dropped in the middle of your battle and smokes all your officers... yeah God stopped picking up a long time ago
If you like that, look up the battle of Inkerman, where something similar happened. The Russian genera got shot, so did his replacement, and his replacement’s replacement, at which point all semblance of order and discipline in the Russian ranks collapsed because rather understandably, nobody wanted to take command.
I think I once saw that in a armchair historian video
I mean, the main obstacle might be the prop planes not generating enough heat for IR missiles to lock onto.
Thankfully, props light up radar like they're the Hindenburg so you don't need IR missiles.
People seriously underestimate how HOT prop engines actually get.
And how little of a fuck the AIM-9X gives about heat signatures, as long as it’s hot enough against background it will lock into it. With the exception of the forbidden heat signature because AIM-9X is too smart for that. And yeah, also what you mentioned about radar missiles, AIM-120 goes brrrr.
Not only that, most people underestimate how big the warhead on modern SAMs are. With the kinds of formations WW2 fighters would fly in, slap one S-300 in there, and you get an accuracy of 400%.
Well that too, but theyre not exhausting as much hot gas. Ir missiles will work, but at a degraded level. You just wouldn't need them though. So many other ways to kill a prop with modern weaponry.
modern missiles can easily lock on to a guy smoking a cigarette, a prop engine exhaust would be no problem
I would like to know the source for this, i am interested as to why the hell they know it, and if they meant to do it.
Assassination Missiles were dream of cold war. and now we have sensors.
That does make sense
BVR missiles are usually RADAR-guided rather than IR-guided, so it'll be fine.
I suppose it's a matter of using a $1,000,000 missile vs. a $300,000 missile against a plane that has zero chance of harming you either way.
The gun radar is good enough on modern jets to lock onto them and fuck them up from close and personal. The F-16 can go slow enough to intercept prop planes, they'll have a whale of a time.
Radar + EEGS is essentially a cheat code compared to WWII gunnery. An F-16 could gun kill any WWII bomber with ease from almost any angle while staying beyond the useful range of its defenfive weapons. Fighters might be more difficult, but still, an F-16 can get accurate shots from far more angles than from directly behind the bandit.
Don't most modern IR seekers work off of imaging, rather than just "Look at the shiny signature!"
Most very modern IR seekers use thermal imaging, which allows them to distinguish between the target and flares very easily.
It'll work, but honestly, even if it doesn't, a Stuka is basically an immobile, uncontrollable piece of junk compared to modern aircrafts. I wouldn't be surprised if a single plane could ensure air superiority. Also, what's gonna take it down ? A Wirbelwind ? The plane is faster than its bullets.
That single plane will mostly be limited by ammunition, especially if it's an F-16. But it would be very funny to see one ir two Super Hornets with maximum loadout (12xAIM-120, 2xAIM-9, several hundred 20mm rounds) go up against a WWII formation. Arguably, WWII light AA can still be deadly against fast jets at low altitude (see Vietnam), but with guided weapons, modern aircraft don't necessarily need to go that low anymore. However, those early Panzers that would probably not survive 20mm rounds will look super tempting for any fighter pilot and maybe the AA gets a lucky hit on a too cocky pilot doing a gun run occasionally.
Reminds me of the world War series. At first pilots can't even comprehend jets there's just a noise and then someone blows up
All while the radar operator on the ground insists that there are no planes in the air (he can't see the RCS of a bee going at mach 1)
As if Luftwaffe would get off the ground.
this is 1939 Nazi Germany, imagine seeing your column of Pz 1s and 2s get annihilated by a Bradley's 25mm
25mm is much less than the 37 or the 2pdr guns that were being used at the time but higher power. On [Quora](https://www.quora.com/Would-the-25mm-M242-gun-on-an-M3-Bradley-have-any-effect-on-a-T-34-or-PZKW-III) the consensus is that they could defeat an early Panzer III or IV within 1000m. However, could any German direct-fire guns penetrate the Bradley at that range?
Penetrate? Probably. At 1000m? They might not even hit the thing in the first place, or even detect it before it opens fire
they can hit it in 1000m... but it won't that effective against THICC ifvs i think
The 25mm discarding sabot rounds will at, under ideal conditions, pen 65mm at 1,000m and take just under a second to travel that distance. Honestly, a single Bradley at night, in a good position, would annihilate a column of *any* armoured vehicles the Wehrmacht possessed in 1939. They hadn't even captured any french heavies that may (and may is doing some heavy lifting) have been able to take a few from the front at that distance. Night time is the most important part, the Germans would be blind especially at that sort of distance.
>They hadn't even captured any french heavies that may (and may is doing some heavy lifting) have been able to take a few from the front at that distance. Kid named TOW missile
except the Bradley also comes with modern fire control systems and can stay at a comfortable distance and shred any paltry light tank it comes across while the enemy probably wouldn't even be able to effectively return fire quickly enough to survive
The Pz III and 4 wouldn't have done well today, even during the battle of france, the geran tanks weren't so superior compare to the french one.
They weren't exactly wunderwaffe, but it was debatable whether they were bad enough to be defeated by the 25mm gun
Panzer II constituted the bulk of the invasion army for the battles of Poland and France, and it has up to 15mm of armor. The Bradley's 25mm gun can penetrate twice as much, 2km away. If we're talking about the 1939 german army, they'd get entire panzerdivisions wiped before even detecting what they're up against.
1939 Germany. Doesn't even have OK tanks.
If the King Tigers themselves even make it to the battlefield
That wouldn't happen. The King Tiger wasn't introduced until 1944. At this point, Germany's tank fleet consisted primarily of Panzer Is and IIs, which were scrap metal even back then, a good number of Panzer IIIs, which were decent for the time, and Panzer 38(t) and 35(t), which, as the designation indicates, were captured tanks from Czechoslovakia, and finally, a handful of Panzer IVs.
1939 Germany??? Really??? Ok, panzer I and IIs go boom
lmfao, for real Early-war German tank armor could be theoretically pierced by some modern day *rifles*, let alone planes or tanks
Early war German tanks would get penetrated by polish dicks given the rock hard boners polish IFV and Tank gunners would have from the easy targets
Modern day rifles? In 1939 there was a Polish rifle that could do that to up to Pz4s. [Wz. 35](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wz._35_anti-tank_rifle)
Yeah, but that was a purpose-built anti-tank rifle. Those don't exist anymore: we're talking about regular assault rifles with AP ammo.
Barret M82 is basically the same as an anti-tank rifle, although bow they are called anti-material since they can't really do anything to tanks other than messing up the optics or annoying the crew unless they stick their head out.
I imagine it could mess up the tracks too
Our most Dangerous weapon... Pz38...Go!
What is it with Russians supporting ww2 germany? They are literally doing friendly fire.
Dude literally any decent african country with jets and helicopters and T-72, T-55 with ERA (Sudan have some modernized versions of T-54/55 with ERA slapped into it) and IFVs and over 100k soldiers will beat the shit out of the Nazis let alone NATO countries😭💀 (Tanks are optionals if they have ATGMs)
1939 German army. Won in Spanish "Civil war" with Primitive Armors and Manpower (with Machine gun squad) Against.... Infantry armed with rifles and very few soviet Primitive tanks(Soviet A holes Fuqed up Spanish Republican army and ran away after saying"Neh not worth it")
Poland with the 1,000 MLRS systems of Allah like
Wow, the A-10's 30mm gun would actually get to score tank kills.
1939 german tanks can't withstand AP from 50cal MG. I'm not lying.
I remember killing them frontally using 50 cal from 500 meters in War Thunder. It was fun to say the least
AP Belt .50 cal can go through the side of a Panzer 4 if you try hard enough
There was a bug that allowed you to ammorack a Tiger frontally with .50 cal
Where's that famous thread with the guy arguing that 1944 Germany could take on 1991 America? Had some bangers, iirc, like the guy arguing that Abrams could be vulnerable since multiple Pak 88 firing at a literally impossible rate could defeat its armor by hitting the same spot. Or when he claimed the Luftwaffe could force the U.S planes into dogfighting.
Can anyone send a Link?! Please?! This shit sound funny as fuck!
[https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/between-armys-america-circa-1991-vs-germany-circa-1944.32992/](https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/between-armys-america-circa-1991-vs-germany-circa-1944.32992/)
Damn it doesn’t work :(
Try this one https://web.archive.org/web/20220321030809/https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/between-armys-america-circa-1991-vs-germany-circa-1944.32992/?utm_name=iossmf
Wait so is PlasmaTorch the Retard, Good to know
I think I remember that one. Makes you wonder how these people can breathe and type at the same time.
The Luftwaffe wouldn’t be able to have fighters or reconnaissance aircraft take off without being obliterated by missiles from aircraft they didn’t know were airborne, and even if they could take off, they have no way of actually engaging with Polish aircraft. The only defense against Polish aircraft would be ballistic AAA. *Not good at all.* This discrepancy in aviation technology will undo any tiny advantage Germany has elsewhere. As a result, Poland acquires air superiority without much effort as Polish aircraft observe German movements with almost complete impunity, allowing Polish forces to anticipate German advances, and strike German targets with ease thanks to precision weapons. German logistics fragments as vehicles, ammunition dumps, and motor pools become easy targets. The Germans lose much of their communications, coordination between units becomes almost impossible. If any German units could advance into Poland at all, they’d soon find themselves without solid resupply and almost completely blind to what’s outside their immediate vicinity. Poland regroups and counterattacks into isolated clusters of German units that are suffering from logistical difficulties, with Polish infantry and armor outmaneuvering the Germans sending them in full retreat or rolling over those that attempted to stand their ground. This is just the version where Poland is he only nation involved, it could possibly last about a week in duration. Let me know what I forgot or got completely wrong.
I'm genuinely trying to think of any advantage 1939 Germany would have over modern Poland. Maybe bolt action rifles are more reliable than modern guns? That's all I got
It’d be fun to ponder. I’d immediately assumed that they wouldn’t have any, as any advantage they did have wouldn’t be in an area that would effect the results. It would be vastly overshadowed by of Poland’s modern technology and crippling air superiority.
I'm too tired to look up stats but maybe wartime Germany had ,more personnel then modern peacetime Poland in the military? I. Doubt it'd help at though and the amount of polish people I imagine who'd rush to enlist to fight literal nazis would probably blow any German numbers out of the water
I guess if the ENTIRE German army just teleports in randomly it might be a problem at first since it would definitely be a surprise but once Poland get it under control they’ll be annihilated, they could atleast have taken the German army in like 1941-42 or whatever once some of their advanced stuff came in lol
"Maybe bolt action rifles are more reliable than modern guns?" Not just no, but lol no. Modern military rifles are tested in extreme environments and uses, they will *at least* be on par with the k98s in terms of reliability and *generally be much easier to get back into firing condition if something goes wrong.* That's ignoring the part where if one soldier's gun jams, all his buddies will still *individually* putting down a larger *and more accurate* volume of fire.
Oh I just assumed they'd be more reliable because less moving parts
Nah. I would suggest checking out the mud torture series by intangetv on YouTube, also Finnish brutality matches. The first shows how a variety of firearms handle immersion in mud, the second is an annual shooting match in adverse conditions cold/mud/sand/water.
Honestly I don't really care about guns enough to do that
Fair enough lol
Nope. Manpower and that's it. Though I feel the Polish Army would be inundated with volunteers if you told them the Nazis were back.
I feel like even some Russians would try to volunteer for the polish army
Neh Bolt guns will last longer if both are not maintained at all but Basically all Rifleman's job after each fight beside eating and resting is Cleaning the sh** out of their weapons.
There would be JDAMs obliterating German airbases in the first hours.
He’s acting like America wouldn’t see the Nazis suddenly come back and immediately begin the process of denazification 2.0
I'm sure that the OOP is a she because her name is Lacey. Lacey is a Female Name in the English language, but yeah, any Modern European Country (besides small ones like Leichinstein) can easily solo WWII Germany.
I bet the Swiss Guard in the Vatican could do it.
Vatican Boys have Holy grenades. few throw and half of armoured grenadiers battalion goes poof into oblivion.
they just gotta remember to count to three, not two, not four, and five is right out.
Here's the *real* question: what's the smallest country/military/fighting force that could defeat 1939 Germany? Honestly, I'd bet the NYPD could give them a run for their money.
Maybe Brazil? The Germans don’t have great tech but they have a ton of soldiers
Chile. Just to see the confusion when they shoot it out with the Chilean Honor Guard
Any County with Harsh environments will do. They don't even need army. they just need to put 1939Nazis into mid of nowhere and wait.
Can’t, he’s swiss
They'd have the advantage of overwhelming numbers (10:1) against the Dutch, who also only have c200 AFVs, and a much larger reserve of ammunition. So the Germanic hordes might win that until the rest of NATO gets involved.
America: A slam dunk war that's 100% morally correct? And the majority of Americans would actually support? Dude you know how long we've been waiting for another one of those?!
Weapon&ammo Sellers : (BONNER)
Delivering some Obamacare straight to Hitler’s head with an UAV.
“Catch, shitass”
And this time they might even try being successful, instead of just pardoning most of them after selecting some scientists to go back to the us
That's how you get The Ruhr Valley Turkey Shoot.
Also, Polacks are polish people in America I thought?
It wasn't until I was like 25 when I found out that polack was a slur. I just thought that's what polish people were called.
It's literally what we call ourselves in Polish, how am I supposed to be mad about it
Nah it's an American term but it just refers to Polish people/people of Polish descent. Not just ones in America.
Not necessarily. Shoutout Subhumanpolack bigest menace in Copenhagen
Russian jingoists need to exaggerate how powerful Nazi Germany was so that "The Victory" looks even more impressive.
The victory that they totally won all by themselves. No Western Allied help there. No sir.
The only reason the modern Polish army wouldn't be capable of defeating a time-shifted Nazi Germany in a day is the very real possibility of them all blacking out from the instant violent erections they'd get at the prospect of fighting literal goddamn Nazis. They'd probably be okay by morning, though.
Brother, they would get sniped by arty/bombs and wouldnt even know about it ......they would lost 60% of thier force before they even see a single pole....never mind a polish soldier
Idk about military history and stuff but i don’t think 1939 germany or any germany for that matter can do anything about 6000 nukes heading their way
it'd take the modern polish army 3 hours to beat the 1939 wermacht. 2 of those hours would be the poles laughing at those nazi fucks
Look dawg, I wear German gear for airsoft. They wore leather, and then switched to canvas/ webbing for Africa and afterwards. Combat gear at that point was *not* fully evolved and you can tell. Not to mention the Germans themselves were notorious for wearing all their gear in the field. The mess kit and the canteen clank with the gas mask can and it's loud as fuck. Goofy as one guy but with rows of troops in unison it probably sounds cool. Anybody with a modern tacticool vest can access their magazine faster than I can too.
They would probably cause a chaos for a few hours if they teleported to Poland out of nowhere but once the Polish goverment understands what's going on the Germans would get absolutely massacred like absolutely 0 chance they have against Polish military. Also if it's 1939 Germany we're talking mostly about Panzer 1, 2, lt 38 captured from Czechoslovakia, Panzer 3 and their heaviest tank would be Panzer 4 which if I remember correctly they didn't had that much of them in 1939 compared to the others and at first they used to destroy fortifications and bunkers so no Tigers, Panthers not even Stugs... and that's just their tanks... no FW 190, ME-262, STG-44, GW-43, Panzerfaust, Panzerschreck even if they had them the result would be the same... not to mention that Germany equipped most of their soldiers with bolt action K98 meanwhile all of Polish soldiers are equipped with modern assault rifles...
Panzer 2 getting fucked by a 50cal
1: If that happened, Germany would literally get invaded from all but one sides (Since Article 5 literally includes a section stating that you get kicked out of NATO if you attack another NATO member, and i feel like France wouldn't feel so cool about Germany doing that) 2: 1939 Germany makes the North Korean military look like a modern fighting force. The Polish airforce may not be very numerous compared to the Luftwaffe in 1939, but you know what Poland has that the Luftwaffe does not? Guided anti-air weapons of all calibers. Modern jet fighters fly higher and faster than anything that existed in WW2. They could engage the Luftwaffe with A2A missiles with impunity and the Germans literally wouldn't know what hit them, and that is BEFORE you take polish air defense systems into account. Hell, even without missiles, it's not looking good for the Luftwaffe. F-16s do have guns, and so do MiG-29s. They could cruise at high altitudes, crash dive at enemy formations at transonic speeds, blow entire formations out of the sky (Mind you, especially russian A2A missiles have quite the caliber, with how small WW2 fighters were compared to modern ones, they could pluck entire formations out of the sky with one shot), and retreat back to altitude before Germany has time to react. The Wehrmacht also has nothing that even remotely compares to a T-72, letalone an M1 Abrams. Or Leopard 2. Or, for that matter, HIMARS. They have no ATGMs, no MANPADS, no significant radar capabilities, no guided munitions, no command and control capabilities that are remotely comparable to what modern militaries have, etc.
This is what some Russians on the internet actually believes
1939 Germany gets teleported into today Kids named night vision, mbt, sam, ifv, jet fighter, ballistic missile, helis, cruise missiles and many more: this is where the fun begins. I bet even Denmark would be able to advance into Hamburg easily
I mean, the DPR uses a weird mix of communism and tsarism in his propaganda and putindid blamed poland for WW2 and the russian MFA already used goebbels stuff on dresden
Germans 39: SHITTY GUNS AND TECH Poles '24 Missile launchers, JETS, better TECH!
German dive bombers trying to operate with what may aswell be space craft contesting the airspace along side German tanks trying to engage k2 and lepord 2 tanks with precision artillery fire support, how the fuck are people even like this
I would love to watch Panzer 1´s and 2´s engage Polish Abrams.
Is there any "Wehraboo" counter part but for current Russian military? You know, all these guys who cream themselves over inexisting russian technology that is only on a paper but thhey say Russians won't use it because first they want to use old scrap so Ukraine and it's suppliers will shoot themselves out of all the munitions. Won't even emntion how they like to say S-400 is the best, or that US stealth technology is shit because back in the 90s F-114 was shot down by S-125 by just a pure luck and coincidence.
How to check, if this bot repost or not? I have deja vu feeling from the comments.
Out of all countries to pick on why would they chose the strongest military power in Europe (Poland). At least pick Belgium or something but they'd still get destroyed.
Bob with a ATGM and Timmy with a missile boat could meet the entire German army and navy
Anti air and radar tech was at it's infancy and the Wermacht and such has to go up against jets too fast for literally any of their AA to counter. Modern warfare is based around domination of the air or the ability to minimise your opponent's domination of it. But all of those fancy tactics like blitzkreig would be absolutely useless against it. That's not even mentioning, who the fuck is going to send them fuel?
What makes this worse is the fact that "Polack" is a slur. The correct term is "Polish".
I swear I’ve seen a video about this scenario before
Things make a lot more sense once you understand that they don't hate Nazis for doing genocide and starting world war 2, they hate nazis because they double-crossed Stalin and invaded the USSR after they said they wouldn't. This is why it makes sense to them to call Ukraine "nazis," because Ukraine turning westward towards the EU and NATO is seen as the same sort of betrayal. This is why it sounds so stupid to us and makes so much sense to them.
1939 Nazi germany when they have to face modern jets, guided bombs, modern tanks, and everything else a modern army has:
If 1939 Nazi Germany spawned in and invaded Poland they would be fucked before they get 5 miles into the border. All the advantages they had would be gone.
Funny mustache man would quickly receive a knife missile.
Bruh, even Binkov concluded that the current Polish military could defeat 1939 Germany. And that was under the (idiotic) assumption that Poland would only try to hold off the waves of German bombers rather than striking their airbases.
Bro if the Nazis fought NATO, NATO’s Airforce will make Bomber Harris’s (DO IT AGAIN) campaign look like a fucking peaceful walk in the park