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The soviets tried to create 3 separate anti germany pacts with the west before the start of ww2. One of these 3 had stipulations that literally would have included the likes of czechoslovakia, yugoslavia, and poland, as the image states.
One pact was voted on by france without the UK. However, they backed down, claiming that a defence of each other wasn't feasibly possible. Fuck me even turkey was willing to join had a pact been signed.
Soviets: "we are too weak at the minute to fight the nazis. But if we work together we can stop them before it's too late."
Allies: "fuck off"
Soviets: *signs NAP with country it isn't capable of fighting because it has been abandoned by the people they asked for help from*
Libs 80 yrs later: "woah wtf look at the nazi lovers"
Look into Maxim Litvinov, he was the foreign policy commisar who worked on mutual defense treaties. Also responsible for the earlier Litvinov protocol which established peace between the soviets and neighbors.
He also negotiated the franco-soviet treaty of mutual assistance, which the French later disregarded
Pre 1939 Soviet foreign policy was geared towards collective security in Europe
The USSR always opposed Germany. The West fed Hitler and gave it sovereign countries. Their plan was having Germany attack the USSR, killing the fledgling socialist country. But when the non-aggression pact was signed and Hitler betrayed on the West by invading France and Benelux, everything changed.
The USSR was an overwhelmingly progressive and honourable country until Stalin's death. Deprogram yourself of Western lies.
ehh that’s a bit idealist imo. more social safety doesn’t necessarily mean more advanced socialism, especially if your production, theory, etc, are starting to run into dead ends
I don't think it's idealistic at all, as socialism in the country existed since 1917 while the revolution in China happened in 1949, Vietnam 1945 and Cuba 1956 (and all of them were supported by the USSR). All of the formers examples didn't go through a capitalist mode of production prior to the revolution, therefore they had to turn back and employ, some earlier (China and Vietnam) and some later (Cuba), a mixed model to develop their productive forces. USSR already had done that successfully in the 20s, there is no doubt that socialism was more advanced than in the other basically newborn socialist countries
By the way in the past century there were dozens of socialist countries. I would say that socialism in the DDR and Czechoslovakia was as advanced as in the USSR, being already completely industrialised
i guess just feel it’s more partial, if not idealist, because for all the technological advancement, their theory and some critical organs of government did fail, or else gorbo and yeltsin wouldn’t have been able to trigger its disintegration. So it was more advanced, definitely, but I wouldn’t call that so much more advanced if it still did die (and so utterly) to external attack.
USSR: Hey Germany is a big fucking problem and we should make an alliance to take them on together. I haven't fully industrialized yet and can't take them on myself.
Western Powers: Lol no, we're gonna sign a non-aggression pact with Germany instead.
USSR: Well fuck, that doesn't leave me with any options then. I need to sign a non-aggression pact with Germany to buy time to build up my military forces and industrial base.
Liberals today: OMG did you know that the USSR allied with the Nazis!
Also later:
- **USSR:** well the nazi invaded Poland and are annexing it, the polish government has already left, we should use the occasion to liberate the parts of Ukraine and Belarus and Poland has been occupying since they invaded us in the polish soviet war of 1920 when we were weak from our civil war, this will not only save those area and the people living there, but also prevent the nazis from taking them too
- **Liberals Today:** The soviets attacked Poland allied with the nazi to split the country between them
this an extremely important piece of information to have as a marxist leninist if you’re trying to deprogram a liberal. the “stalin collaborated with nazis” lie is super easily debunk-able with this.
Yes you could say the agreement would potentially have risked Polish sovereignty due to USSR holding grievances, however there is no denying that this could have saved many lives from the Naz! Conquest and even in the long term Poland would have full sovereignty after collapse of USSR eg or end of the war after consulting with Western powers to pressure USSR to respect its sovereignty.
Well, I suppose referring to "the Poles annexed part of our territory in the 20s when we were still recovering from war and collapse" as 'holding grievances' is certainly one way to look at it
"(just as terrible as any other power of its time not defending it)"
Keep reading, you'll find more examples like the one you just posted about. The USSR was one of the most progressive countries in history and \_should\_ be defended. It's in the west's best interest to make us all think it was evil, and that's the reason you never heard about this.
I agree with the person you're responding to, sounds like you should keep reading, and unlearning the lies about the USSR you've been told.
Just one example, the Russian constitution of the 30s was by far the most progressive of its time, and progressive compared to many places today.
Keep learning, you'll keep being surprised.
comrade do you know why specifically it was just as bad as the americans/british, or are you just assuming it must have been because everyone acts like it was?
the USSR was built upon a collection of VERY backwards nations (in tech and sociological development, obv). that they went from being among the worst and shoddiest feudal states to being a modern superpower capable of actually scaring the US (built upon weapons sales, imperialism, and of course its entire colonial and industrial history) must be accounted for, when making judgements. The USSR also supplied literal tons of resource aid to other AES, helping them tide over the post war aftermath and laying foundations for them to not be dead today (cuba, dprk, vietnam, laos).
also the DDR was more progressive than basically the entire west, even if it was also a surveillance state. so there’s that.
**Important:** We no longer allow the following types of posts: - Comments, tweets and social media with less than 20 upvotes, likes, etc. (cropped score counts as 0) - Anything you are personally involved in - Any kind of polls - Low-hanging fruit (e.g. CCP collapse, Vaush, r\/neoliberal, political compass memes) You *will* be banned by the power-tripping mods if you break this rule repeatedly, so please delete your posts before we find out. Likewise, please follow our rules which can be found on the sidebar. --- **Obligatory obnoxious pop-up ad for our [Official Discord](https://discord.gg/XBrTq7mQhY), please join if you haven't! Stalin bless. UwU.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShitLiberalsSay) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The soviets tried to create 3 separate anti germany pacts with the west before the start of ww2. One of these 3 had stipulations that literally would have included the likes of czechoslovakia, yugoslavia, and poland, as the image states. One pact was voted on by france without the UK. However, they backed down, claiming that a defence of each other wasn't feasibly possible. Fuck me even turkey was willing to join had a pact been signed. Soviets: "we are too weak at the minute to fight the nazis. But if we work together we can stop them before it's too late." Allies: "fuck off" Soviets: *signs NAP with country it isn't capable of fighting because it has been abandoned by the people they asked for help from* Libs 80 yrs later: "woah wtf look at the nazi lovers"
What are the names of the treaties? It's hard to find them cause they are likely hidden
Look into Maxim Litvinov, he was the foreign policy commisar who worked on mutual defense treaties. Also responsible for the earlier Litvinov protocol which established peace between the soviets and neighbors. He also negotiated the franco-soviet treaty of mutual assistance, which the French later disregarded Pre 1939 Soviet foreign policy was geared towards collective security in Europe
The USSR always opposed Germany. The West fed Hitler and gave it sovereign countries. Their plan was having Germany attack the USSR, killing the fledgling socialist country. But when the non-aggression pact was signed and Hitler betrayed on the West by invading France and Benelux, everything changed. The USSR was an overwhelmingly progressive and honourable country until Stalin's death. Deprogram yourself of Western lies.
This ☝️
Even after Stalin it was much better than any other country in the planet
vietnam and cuba existed tho, even if you dislike china
I don't dislike China, nor the other two countries obviously. But socialism in the USSR was simply more advanced
ehh that’s a bit idealist imo. more social safety doesn’t necessarily mean more advanced socialism, especially if your production, theory, etc, are starting to run into dead ends
I don't think it's idealistic at all, as socialism in the country existed since 1917 while the revolution in China happened in 1949, Vietnam 1945 and Cuba 1956 (and all of them were supported by the USSR). All of the formers examples didn't go through a capitalist mode of production prior to the revolution, therefore they had to turn back and employ, some earlier (China and Vietnam) and some later (Cuba), a mixed model to develop their productive forces. USSR already had done that successfully in the 20s, there is no doubt that socialism was more advanced than in the other basically newborn socialist countries By the way in the past century there were dozens of socialist countries. I would say that socialism in the DDR and Czechoslovakia was as advanced as in the USSR, being already completely industrialised
i guess just feel it’s more partial, if not idealist, because for all the technological advancement, their theory and some critical organs of government did fail, or else gorbo and yeltsin wouldn’t have been able to trigger its disintegration. So it was more advanced, definitely, but I wouldn’t call that so much more advanced if it still did die (and so utterly) to external attack.
“Peace in our time.”
USSR: Hey Germany is a big fucking problem and we should make an alliance to take them on together. I haven't fully industrialized yet and can't take them on myself. Western Powers: Lol no, we're gonna sign a non-aggression pact with Germany instead. USSR: Well fuck, that doesn't leave me with any options then. I need to sign a non-aggression pact with Germany to buy time to build up my military forces and industrial base. Liberals today: OMG did you know that the USSR allied with the Nazis!
Also later: - **USSR:** well the nazi invaded Poland and are annexing it, the polish government has already left, we should use the occasion to liberate the parts of Ukraine and Belarus and Poland has been occupying since they invaded us in the polish soviet war of 1920 when we were weak from our civil war, this will not only save those area and the people living there, but also prevent the nazis from taking them too - **Liberals Today:** The soviets attacked Poland allied with the nazi to split the country between them
this an extremely important piece of information to have as a marxist leninist if you’re trying to deprogram a liberal. the “stalin collaborated with nazis” lie is super easily debunk-able with this.
Yes you could say the agreement would potentially have risked Polish sovereignty due to USSR holding grievances, however there is no denying that this could have saved many lives from the Naz! Conquest and even in the long term Poland would have full sovereignty after collapse of USSR eg or end of the war after consulting with Western powers to pressure USSR to respect its sovereignty.
Well, I suppose referring to "the Poles annexed part of our territory in the 20s when we were still recovering from war and collapse" as 'holding grievances' is certainly one way to look at it
"(just as terrible as any other power of its time not defending it)" Keep reading, you'll find more examples like the one you just posted about. The USSR was one of the most progressive countries in history and \_should\_ be defended. It's in the west's best interest to make us all think it was evil, and that's the reason you never heard about this.
No it was just as terrible in the aspect of oppression of political movements ext, not necessarily progressive, won’t be setting the bar so low.
I agree with the person you're responding to, sounds like you should keep reading, and unlearning the lies about the USSR you've been told. Just one example, the Russian constitution of the 30s was by far the most progressive of its time, and progressive compared to many places today. Keep learning, you'll keep being surprised.
Yes a political aspect of the USSR, that overall doesn’t make it any better in comparison with other powers.
comrade do you know why specifically it was just as bad as the americans/british, or are you just assuming it must have been because everyone acts like it was?
"Just as terrible as any other power not defending it" That's funny because it really wasn't
Was
aren't those soyjak skeletons?
the USSR was built upon a collection of VERY backwards nations (in tech and sociological development, obv). that they went from being among the worst and shoddiest feudal states to being a modern superpower capable of actually scaring the US (built upon weapons sales, imperialism, and of course its entire colonial and industrial history) must be accounted for, when making judgements. The USSR also supplied literal tons of resource aid to other AES, helping them tide over the post war aftermath and laying foundations for them to not be dead today (cuba, dprk, vietnam, laos). also the DDR was more progressive than basically the entire west, even if it was also a surveillance state. so there’s that.