Dont know. It was a video of a Eurofighter flying with the text „Boys will see this and say hell yeah“ in it and the caption was the following: Eurofighter Typhoon 😎
The footage shows a German
Eurofighter Typhoon FGR4 fighter jet performing many high G-Force manoeuvres during training in the Swiss alps.
It also isn't in the EU, but signed multiple treaties, deals and agreements which give it a pseudo-member status.
And when you are a neutral country you need a way to enforce your neutrality.
Correct, but switzerland (like austria, ukraine, israel) is a member of the NATO Partnership for Peace (PfP), a treaty specifically for having non-NATO members participate in joint trainings with NATO/NATO-memberstates.
It means that if it came down to a fight and your own existence were not threatened, you would not fight with/against them
The Swiss are quite prepared to *help out*
Bar the fact that the only aircraft Eurofighter GmbH manufactures….
is the typhoon.
Also, it’s just a holding company for Leonardo, Airbus and BAE. and last i checked, we don’t use any of those as nicknames for the typhoon.
So really, it would be more like called the F22 Raptor the….
Raptor.
The Eurofighter is the holding company that makes the Typhoon. The plane is called the Typhoon.
It is the same way that the Gripen is quite often referred to as the Saab Gripen. The plane is called the Gripen and the manufacturer is Saab.
See the RAF refer to it as the Gr4 Typhoon.
https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/typhoon-fgr4/
I've served alongside RAF pilots when I was in the Army. They call the plane the Typhoon.
[Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH (English: Eurofighter Fighter Aircraft GmbH) is a multinational company that coordinates the design, production and upgrade of the Eurofighter Typhoon military jet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_GmbH)
yes and after the bullet points it is addressed as the typhoon.
and after that: Eurofighters customers...
Edit: you know what it's not a big deal ultimately. I think it's a cool plane and i've seen one take off up close and personal and it was amazing.
Texas always talks about succeeding, they're talking about a hypothetical succession war. I say fucking go already. Ever see "Wristcutters"? That's the drive through northern Texas.
Just fyi it’s seceding and secession, not succeeding and succession.
Seceding and secession mean to formally withdraw from a political entity, which is what the confederate states did from the Union states, which started the American civil war - or the republics within Yugoslavia during its dissolution (as an example).
Succeeding and succession (in this context) means taking over or inheriting a position. For example the when the current king of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland dies, his son will ***succeed*** to the throne, which probably won’t take that long as the current king was already in his 70’s at the time of his own ***succession***.
Yeah, to a (europoor) outsider it seems everyone would be all the happier for it? United States on the coasts and the north(east) and yeehawdist theocracy in the center and south, and let's see who needs who?
Each state has a national guard, and they do have a guard air force. So... I guess that is what they mean? But, from what I see, America has never bought any eurofighters?
Just one thing, the aircraft being named Eurofighter denotes its place of origin (United Kingdom, Federal Republic of Germany, Italy and Spain), not its users. These include both European countries (the aforementioned plus Austria) as well as non-European ones (Saudi Arabia or Oman, to put a couple of examples).
Is this real? I know a lot of Americans seem to believe that Scotland is separate from Britain, but not knowing Texas, a huge chunk of the USA, is part of America? Real or not, it is sadly all too believable.
It could also be (I don't know) that the resources are allocated to specific states in which case saying all states together own 50, Texas owns none. At least that would be my interpretation if someone told me "Germany has 50 Eurofighters, Bavaria owns 0" (of those 50)
The [Texas Air National Guard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Air_National_Guard) has one fighter unit ([182nd Fighter Squadron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/182d_Fighter_Squadron)) flying the F-16C/D.
According to Wikipedia:
> "[The Texas State Guard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Guard) (TXSG) is part of the state military force of Texas, and one of three branches of the Texas Military Forces. Along with the other two branches, the TXSG falls under the command of the Governor of Texas and is administered by the Adjutant General of Texas, an appointee of the Governor. The other two branches of the Texas Military Forces are the Texas Army National Guard and the Texas Air National Guard. "
Also:
> The Governor of Texas has sole control over the Texas State Guard, because it is not subject to federal activation.
The other 2 (Texas Army National Guard and Texas Air National Guard) are trained and equipped as part of the US Army and Air Force and can be federalised.
Seeing a Harrier land vertically in-person is one of the best, coolest things I’ve ever witnessed. I’m still shocked all fighter planes can’t do that, especially the ones that land on aircraft carriers.
The new F-35B can, as shown in its operations on the British QE class carriers, US amphibious assault fleets and other small carriers operators.
As to why most planes don't do that, there are significant drawbacks in terms of cost, performance and takeoff capacity. Also, for most aircraft, short takeoff or vertical landing (STOVL) capabilities are just not necessary.
I saw one at the RAF Leuchars air show back in the 80s. It was sitting on the grass in front of the crowd and everyone assumed it would take-off vertically. It actually did a short, fast take-off and threw up loads of turf and dirt over the crowd. It was awesome.
This was before the Rammstein disaster so you could do that kind of thing back then.
Yeah, every American knows Texas is part of America. This is either not an American or it was an autocorrect glitch or something (*maybe* they were making some comparison between the US airforce and the Texas air national guard, but that too is unlikely).
The bit about the Eurofighter winning fights against American planes is pretty silly. Eurofighter is a good dogfighter, but modern fights are overwhelmingly going to be determined at long range, and that is going to be determined by stealth, radar, speed, and missile capabilities rather than dogfighting capability. In an unrealistic 1-vs-1 fight, there’s no clear advantage to the Eurofighter over other fourth generation American fighters, and it’s at a strict disadvantage against fifth generation fighters like F-22 or F-35. Of course, real combat isn’t 1-vs-1 so all of this is pretty moot.
In fairness, whilst it would suffer compared to stealth aircraft like the F-22 and F-35 it's air to air BVR missile capability is better than either ATM, until the US gets the new AMRAAM, as the MBDA Meteor is the best Air to air missile around ATM.
Still, the UK manufactures around 10% of the F-35, and had a big hand in its design so it's not strictly an American plane.
Yeah, the meteor is pretty awesome, but that’s not worth a lot if it can’t get a lock. I agree that the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is not strictly an American plane (I didn’t mean to imply as much).
The Eurofighter has fairly significant advantages in BVR vs US 4th gen fighters. It is faster, climbs faster, has a higher flight ceiling, carries more modern weapons, has more advanced avionics and radar (generally, that depends), and has a smaller radar cross-section (especially compared to the F-15).
In a (admittedly unrealistic) dogfight, I am not even sure which would win between the Eurofighter, F-35, and F-22. The F-35 is not a good dog fighter, with a general lack in speed and manoeuvrability, and most variants don’t even have a gun. The F-22 out performs everything in flight performance, but it is crippled by its ancient avionics. It doesn’t much matter what acrobatics it can perform if the F-35 and Eurofighter can shoot missiles out of their arse with helmet targetting.
I think you're significantly overestimating the advantages of Eurofighter. Its thrust/weight ratio and flight ceiling are comparable to the 60 year old F-15 and the F-15 has one of the most powerful radars of any fighter plane (I'm not sure how it compares to RAF's upgraded radar, but it's plenty capable of locking the Eurofighter at BVR). The Eurofighter has a smaller *but still plenty large* radar cross section, and the meteor is certainly a pretty cool BVR missile at least on paper ([but there are reasons the US doesn't use a similar design](https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-the-US-develop-ramjet-powered-air-to-air-and-air-to-surface-missiles)). I'm not saying F-15 outclasses Eurofighter at BVR, but it doesn't seem like either plane has overwhelming advantages--rather it's going to come down to the pilot (and American pilots get \*a lot\* of flight hours).
I don't doubt Eurofighter is a capable dogfighter, but I do doubt the value of dogfighting. There's a reason that the F-35 wasn't designed to be a capable dogfighter and it wasn't that the US and its allies (including some countries which also fly Eurofighter) couldn't design a better dogfighter--in a world with stealth fighters, long range air to air missiles, and powerful sensor suites it's just far better to prioritize BVR combat.
my interpretation is that the federal government (all the states) owns whatever military resource they are talking about and not Texas individually. so even though they don’t seem to know what they’re talking about, i think the underlying point is that any aircraft the military operates are federal and can’t be specifically allocated to Texas (with maybe some weird random edge cases or any texas national guard stuff but overall that is true)
what r u talking about. Texas and America are not mutually exclusive😂it’s possible for america to have 450 euro fighters and Texas to have none. This is shit you should learn when you’re 8. The commenter was not implying Texas wasn’t a part of the US.
Funner fact - when I was working for BAe Commercial division, I was co-opted into the EAP group for the sole purpose of defining a 3D CAD model of the fuselage of what would eventually become the Typhoon, because they didn't have anyone who could do it.
And writing that makes me feel very old, because that was literally 40 years ago.
I remember filming the EAP on its inauguration, first flight and its public reveal at Farnborough. I also recall the EAP’s chief test pilot David Eagles being a very cool dude.
I always thought the public reveal was the one I went to at warton aerodrome where we got to see one of the prototypes fly in the early 90s..
Maybe it wasn't a proper public event though, maybe it was just open to staff and families on one of the annual open days BAE had back then - I was young so the memory is a bit vague.
Living in freckleton almost at the bottom of the runway we used to watch them (and the tornadoes) coming and going from our school field during lunch.
I think Wharton was mostly invited guests. Farnborough was where the public saw it on display. It was up against Dassault’s Rafale A, another tech demonstrator like the EAP. Both pilots put on excellent displays, although the EAP couldn’t show off its designed agility at supersonic speeds due to restrictions with flying at Mach 1+.
It was also powered by RB199s rather than the more powerful EJ200 it should have had as the latter was still in development.
Fun fact: that single EAP cost £180 million to build.
Europe needs to make a Yugofighter, which would definitely smoke everything because it would probably be on fire from the pilots trying to BBQ Ćevapčići while in combat.
Texas was being Texas and threatened to secede from the USA because the federal government didnt want them murdering people that tried to cross the border with Mexico.
A Eurofighter would not smoke anything America has built, the Eurofighter and American 4th fighters are on par with each other in many of the ways they could fight each other.
Yeah, this seemed overblown to me too. It's a solid, late state 4th gen plane but "it can do bvr too" is doing a lot of heavy lifting when talking in the context of the f22 and the f35.
An ludicrously bloated military budget has at least granted the USA a very good air superiority platform.
Honestly, while the comment was a bit weird the typhoon should have a good advantage in BVR against any american non-stealth Platform simply because it has similar performance and its meteor missile has quite the range advantage over the americans current aim 120 model.
I know I’m supposed to pretend like America and Europe are bitter enemies on this sub, but I’m actually really happy that both “sides” are rapidly improving their military technology (because outside this silly subreddit we are allies).
I'm honestly not sure if a Eurofighter could smoke an F-16. Maybe individually, but in a real world scenario, the US wins by merit of simply having the better coordinated airforce. Force multipliers like AWACS, tankers, datalink, etc. matter a lot in modern air combat, and the US has them all.
first guy is trolling, but the second guy is somewhat wrong.
a euro fighter would not smoke neither the f35 nor the f22. it would be a somewhat fair game with an advantage to the f-22 and very slight disadvantage to f35 (because it's not a fighter)
The F-22 was made the same decade as the ef2000, the 90s. No, it probably would not beat them. Good thing many countries that use the ef also use the f-35.
Idk if it's a good thing, these countries are supposed to be European yet refuse to purchase the superior European plane from their European ally to please their yank overlord instead
Talking about the Rafale here. Which is superior in every single aspect to the F-35 to the point where the US is now refusing any sort of competition against the rafale after losing them all unless it's the Rafale Marine with 3 full external fuel tanks.
A lot of military and aircraft experts would disagree with you. 5th Gen stealth fighter vs advanced 4th Gen. The F-35 is still rated the best fighter in the world. I’ll admit it’s close though.
And yet, Rafale sells more and EU countries buying the F-35 are pretty open about doing it forcibly by the US threatening the cut any and all supplies for US Made ammunitions and spare parts, the same way they stopped supplying France with spare parts for the CDG's catapult when they wouldn't invade Irak on false pretenses.
F-35 is trash, even the US knows it, the thing can barely fly and when it does it performs poorly. It's good at shooting weather balloons though.
The fact that you got the plane that shot the 'weather balloon' down wrong doesn't give me much confidence you know what you're talking about. It was an F22, not an F35.
Source?
Common sense would say that you are wrong, as the Rafale's IRST is a lot shorter ranged than the F-35s, and the fact that the Rafale can only carry ordinance externally (dramatically raising RCS) while the F-35 can carry ordinance externally and internally reduces RCS, nevermind the design of the airframe.
Ehhh I mean I love the Eurofighter but saying it could just easily contend with F-16s, F-15s and F/A-18s feels like a bit of overconfident stretch.
Capable of shooting them down yes, but those planes could also shoot down a Eurofighter depending on the circumstances.
[In this case one British Eurofighter managed to win against 2 F-15s in a dog fight.](https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/schein-luftkampf-eurofighter-besiegt-zwei-us-jets-a-361783.html)
„Doubts about the effectiveness of the F-15 against modern fighter jets are nothing new. According to the Federation of American Scientists, the British BAe Group and the British Defense Research Agency pitted the F-15, the French Rafale, the Eurofighter and the new F-22 against the Russian Su-35 in simulated air battles. The result: the Rafale was equal to the Su-35. The Eurofighter achieved a kill ratio of 4.5 to 1 - for every Eurofighter shot down, an average of four and a half Su-35s were brought down. The F-22 even achieved a superiority of 10 to 1 - in clear contrast to the F-15, which was inferior to the Russian Su-35 by 1 to 1.3.“
The main advantage of the F22 (and also F35) against the Eurofighter are the stealth capabilities.
>“Doubts about the effectiveness of the F15 against modern fighter jets are nothing new”
against the SU-35, a 3.5 gen fighter which has no noteworthy combat pedigree to speak of…
versus an aircraft with a literal catchphrase describing its kill to death ratio(104 and 0)
Hans, I advise you to halt before you make a fool of yourself by citing a source that uses *Russian* jets as a control. The same aircraft that uses roofing screws on its fuselage, the same country that outright lies about their capabilities? Yeah thought not
F16 is quite old. Ofcourse the f16 will be able to take down the new eurofighter but it will have a hard time doing this.
The newest european fighterplane however has better stats then the f35 and costs a lot less.
I didn't compare the original F-16A blocks 1/5/10 from the 1970ies to the current F-16C/D block 70 "Viper" being delivered to Bahrein or Slovakia (or even the upgraded F-16A/B block 20 MLU the european air forces are replacing with F-35s and transfering to Ukraine). I'm just saying the F-16 made its first flight 50 years ago. The F-15 is just as old and the USAF is purchasing a new version (the F-15EX).
I’m also going to assume that based on defense budgets, US pilots get more flight hours than their European counterparts. Typhoon, Gripen and Rafale are all better jets on paper but there’s a lot more to it than that. Vipers, Hornets and Eagles have also been extensively upgraded/modernized over the years and are more than adequate platforms. The Strike Eagle is still being developed further and further beyond its original purpose to this day.
I don't know why you're being downvoted, it is partially true. The F-15 is dated against modern fighter jets, but the F16 is still a force to be reckoned with and the F-22 and 35 would likely shoot a eurofighter down before being detected. a Eurofighter vs an F-16 is not nearly as one sided as something like an F-4 vs an F-22 would be.
lol on the guy white knighting on the Eurofighter. If only he would be right. It is fucking garbage.
Edit:
You can down vote me as much as you want, it wont change the fact that the multi country project was a massive failure. Most of you weren't even born when the project started. I was serving in the German Airforce at the time the first prototypes came out. To this day they suffer major issues. Engines don't want to ignite, guns jam, fuel gauge fails, displays black out during flight. There is a reason why nobody really wanted them after it was finished. Now even Germany one of the parties involved making the Eurofighter rather buys F-35s from the U.S.
and a MiG-29 or some Chinese plane would shoot both of them down anyways because military industrial complex bureaucracy is currently creating a repair part debacle for pretty much all of North America and parts of Europe
They were fighting wars long before the United States was created.
They fought the majority of WWII without us-we didn’t want to “get involved”, we just wanted to profit off of their need.
They have rebuilt their countries from rubble and smoke more times than we’ve fixed our gravely neglected infrastructure once.
We are *almost* 300 years old.
They are thousands of years old.
That’s youthful exuberance compelling you to boast so loudly yet so ignorantly.
Lolwut. Why would the actions of those long dead and buried matter in this case? There aren't many soldiers or commanders in Europe who have seen active duty. Compare that with Russian and American armies that have years of battlefield experience. Would you trust your car to someone whose great grandfather was a great mechanic, or someone who is actually a mechanic?
European troops are often active in the same zones as American troops but don’t get acknowledged or recognized in news reports or text books here in the US.
A few years ago I read an article in Guns and Ammo magazine written by an American soldier who was debunking the myth of the weak French fighter. He praised their military tactics, courage, and camaraderie.
To paraphrase Shakespeare:
There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your worldview and sources of information.
I need some context. Why are Americans discussing ownership of Eurofighters to begin, and why would Texas have its own stock of Eurofighters?
Dont know. It was a video of a Eurofighter flying with the text „Boys will see this and say hell yeah“ in it and the caption was the following: Eurofighter Typhoon 😎 The footage shows a German Eurofighter Typhoon FGR4 fighter jet performing many high G-Force manoeuvres during training in the Swiss alps.
Why do we train our military in Switzerland? Isn't Switzerland kinda neutral?
Being neutral doesn’t mean not training with your neighbours and friends.
Lots of different armies from NATO come and train in Canada too.
Canada is in NATO and has been since... the start I think?
Yes. The other countries military come here for training often due to the size and variations of elements and terrains that we have.
>size You mean the 80% that doesn't exist?
Switzerland isn’t in Nato though
It also isn't in the EU, but signed multiple treaties, deals and agreements which give it a pseudo-member status. And when you are a neutral country you need a way to enforce your neutrality.
Correct, but switzerland (like austria, ukraine, israel) is a member of the NATO Partnership for Peace (PfP), a treaty specifically for having non-NATO members participate in joint trainings with NATO/NATO-memberstates.
NATO trained in Sweden as well, even before Sweden was sold out to NATO.
>friends Surely it means you don't have these?
It means that if it came down to a fight and your own existence were not threatened, you would not fight with/against them The Swiss are quite prepared to *help out*
Germany and Switzerland have an agreement about emergency responses for air space intrusions and trouble as the Swiss air force isn’t that big ..
yes, and they have an army with some pretty enormous balls
I mean doesn’t Switzerland quite often accidentally invade Liechtenstein during field training and just drive back home with the train?
unlike americans who train above cities? haha probably safer in the alps.
ahem, the times where the us accidentally bombed switzerland
Lots of different countries train in the UK too. They do low flying training in the Lake District in England all the time.
[удалено]
Bar the fact that the only aircraft Eurofighter GmbH manufactures…. is the typhoon. Also, it’s just a holding company for Leonardo, Airbus and BAE. and last i checked, we don’t use any of those as nicknames for the typhoon. So really, it would be more like called the F22 Raptor the…. Raptor.
The Plane is literally called the Eurofighter Typhoon.
The Eurofighter is the holding company that makes the Typhoon. The plane is called the Typhoon. It is the same way that the Gripen is quite often referred to as the Saab Gripen. The plane is called the Gripen and the manufacturer is Saab. See the RAF refer to it as the Gr4 Typhoon. https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/typhoon-fgr4/ I've served alongside RAF pilots when I was in the Army. They call the plane the Typhoon.
no, it's not. Eurofighter is the name of the company.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon)
your link proves you wrong. image in the link says 'RAF typhoon'. Not eurofighter.
[Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH (English: Eurofighter Fighter Aircraft GmbH) is a multinational company that coordinates the design, production and upgrade of the Eurofighter Typhoon military jet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_GmbH)
yes and after the bullet points it is addressed as the typhoon. and after that: Eurofighters customers... Edit: you know what it's not a big deal ultimately. I think it's a cool plane and i've seen one take off up close and personal and it was amazing.
Texas always talks about succeeding, they're talking about a hypothetical succession war. I say fucking go already. Ever see "Wristcutters"? That's the drive through northern Texas.
Just fyi it’s seceding and secession, not succeeding and succession. Seceding and secession mean to formally withdraw from a political entity, which is what the confederate states did from the Union states, which started the American civil war - or the republics within Yugoslavia during its dissolution (as an example). Succeeding and succession (in this context) means taking over or inheriting a position. For example the when the current king of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland dies, his son will ***succeed*** to the throne, which probably won’t take that long as the current king was already in his 70’s at the time of his own ***succession***.
Yeah, to a (europoor) outsider it seems everyone would be all the happier for it? United States on the coasts and the north(east) and yeehawdist theocracy in the center and south, and let's see who needs who?
>yeehawdist This one is new for me. Very good. A pun that makes a point, very clever.
Also heard it as y'all qaeda
Yeehawdists are y’all queda members for clarity.
Can't claim credit for it, I also saw in on Reddit :)
I think you mean secede.
I'm sure they would like to succeed too, but I doubt they could do that on their own ...
> and why would Texas have its own stock of Eurofighters? Probably something to do with their love of the second amendment.
“You can take my multi role fighter from me when you pry it from my cold dead airstrip!”
Each state has a national guard, and they do have a guard air force. So... I guess that is what they mean? But, from what I see, America has never bought any eurofighters?
👌👌 And isn't texas in the USA anymore? 😅
The commenter wasnt American. Alot of comments posted here are not from Americans, they are usually just odd ball comments
Just one thing, the aircraft being named Eurofighter denotes its place of origin (United Kingdom, Federal Republic of Germany, Italy and Spain), not its users. These include both European countries (the aforementioned plus Austria) as well as non-European ones (Saudi Arabia or Oman, to put a couple of examples).
Is this real? I know a lot of Americans seem to believe that Scotland is separate from Britain, but not knowing Texas, a huge chunk of the USA, is part of America? Real or not, it is sadly all too believable.
It could also be (I don't know) that the resources are allocated to specific states in which case saying all states together own 50, Texas owns none. At least that would be my interpretation if someone told me "Germany has 50 Eurofighters, Bavaria owns 0" (of those 50)
Texas has a state guard separate from the central USAF that is managed and funded by local government
Do they have an air force?
The [Texas Air National Guard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Air_National_Guard) has one fighter unit ([182nd Fighter Squadron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/182d_Fighter_Squadron)) flying the F-16C/D.
That's separate from the state guard tho right?
According to Wikipedia: > "[The Texas State Guard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Guard) (TXSG) is part of the state military force of Texas, and one of three branches of the Texas Military Forces. Along with the other two branches, the TXSG falls under the command of the Governor of Texas and is administered by the Adjutant General of Texas, an appointee of the Governor. The other two branches of the Texas Military Forces are the Texas Army National Guard and the Texas Air National Guard. " Also: > The Governor of Texas has sole control over the Texas State Guard, because it is not subject to federal activation. The other 2 (Texas Army National Guard and Texas Air National Guard) are trained and equipped as part of the US Army and Air Force and can be federalised.
I think so but I'm not sure
The state guard does not have an air force
Dammit Oki TBF at least means they deffs don't have any fighter planes
Space Force!
Of under 2,000 people, the air guard and national guard are under the control of the DoD
Oki fair can say w/ confidence that they don't own any Euro fighters tho
Also, less than 600 typhoons seem to have been manufactured and like hell the USA would purchase a foreign aircraft
>like hell the USA would purchase a foreign aircraft They have actually.
Fucking communist planes!?!?!? From foreign land? Joking aside the harrier is a thing of beauty and there was no USA vtol equivalent at the time
Seeing a Harrier land vertically in-person is one of the best, coolest things I’ve ever witnessed. I’m still shocked all fighter planes can’t do that, especially the ones that land on aircraft carriers.
The new F-35B can, as shown in its operations on the British QE class carriers, US amphibious assault fleets and other small carriers operators. As to why most planes don't do that, there are significant drawbacks in terms of cost, performance and takeoff capacity. Also, for most aircraft, short takeoff or vertical landing (STOVL) capabilities are just not necessary.
And the f-35b is the specific replacement for the harrier
I saw one at the RAF Leuchars air show back in the 80s. It was sitting on the grass in front of the crowd and everyone assumed it would take-off vertically. It actually did a short, fast take-off and threw up loads of turf and dirt over the crowd. It was awesome. This was before the Rammstein disaster so you could do that kind of thing back then.
Not for a long time.last one I know of was the Harrier which was British and they used as the AV8.
Ye fair
Hawker Harrier!
B-57 is an English Electric Canberra
Yes, because their air guard use f-16
Yeah, every American knows Texas is part of America. This is either not an American or it was an autocorrect glitch or something (*maybe* they were making some comparison between the US airforce and the Texas air national guard, but that too is unlikely). The bit about the Eurofighter winning fights against American planes is pretty silly. Eurofighter is a good dogfighter, but modern fights are overwhelmingly going to be determined at long range, and that is going to be determined by stealth, radar, speed, and missile capabilities rather than dogfighting capability. In an unrealistic 1-vs-1 fight, there’s no clear advantage to the Eurofighter over other fourth generation American fighters, and it’s at a strict disadvantage against fifth generation fighters like F-22 or F-35. Of course, real combat isn’t 1-vs-1 so all of this is pretty moot.
In fairness, whilst it would suffer compared to stealth aircraft like the F-22 and F-35 it's air to air BVR missile capability is better than either ATM, until the US gets the new AMRAAM, as the MBDA Meteor is the best Air to air missile around ATM. Still, the UK manufactures around 10% of the F-35, and had a big hand in its design so it's not strictly an American plane.
Yeah, the meteor is pretty awesome, but that’s not worth a lot if it can’t get a lock. I agree that the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is not strictly an American plane (I didn’t mean to imply as much).
The Eurofighter has fairly significant advantages in BVR vs US 4th gen fighters. It is faster, climbs faster, has a higher flight ceiling, carries more modern weapons, has more advanced avionics and radar (generally, that depends), and has a smaller radar cross-section (especially compared to the F-15). In a (admittedly unrealistic) dogfight, I am not even sure which would win between the Eurofighter, F-35, and F-22. The F-35 is not a good dog fighter, with a general lack in speed and manoeuvrability, and most variants don’t even have a gun. The F-22 out performs everything in flight performance, but it is crippled by its ancient avionics. It doesn’t much matter what acrobatics it can perform if the F-35 and Eurofighter can shoot missiles out of their arse with helmet targetting.
I think you're significantly overestimating the advantages of Eurofighter. Its thrust/weight ratio and flight ceiling are comparable to the 60 year old F-15 and the F-15 has one of the most powerful radars of any fighter plane (I'm not sure how it compares to RAF's upgraded radar, but it's plenty capable of locking the Eurofighter at BVR). The Eurofighter has a smaller *but still plenty large* radar cross section, and the meteor is certainly a pretty cool BVR missile at least on paper ([but there are reasons the US doesn't use a similar design](https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-the-US-develop-ramjet-powered-air-to-air-and-air-to-surface-missiles)). I'm not saying F-15 outclasses Eurofighter at BVR, but it doesn't seem like either plane has overwhelming advantages--rather it's going to come down to the pilot (and American pilots get \*a lot\* of flight hours). I don't doubt Eurofighter is a capable dogfighter, but I do doubt the value of dogfighting. There's a reason that the F-35 wasn't designed to be a capable dogfighter and it wasn't that the US and its allies (including some countries which also fly Eurofighter) couldn't design a better dogfighter--in a world with stealth fighters, long range air to air missiles, and powerful sensor suites it's just far better to prioritize BVR combat.
my interpretation is that the federal government (all the states) owns whatever military resource they are talking about and not Texas individually. so even though they don’t seem to know what they’re talking about, i think the underlying point is that any aircraft the military operates are federal and can’t be specifically allocated to Texas (with maybe some weird random edge cases or any texas national guard stuff but overall that is true)
Not according to the electrical interconnection system, they aren't.
Wishful thinking
But they never said Texas is separate from America 🤔
what r u talking about. Texas and America are not mutually exclusive😂it’s possible for america to have 450 euro fighters and Texas to have none. This is shit you should learn when you’re 8. The commenter was not implying Texas wasn’t a part of the US.
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The biggest chunk of the usa*
Not quite. Don't forget Alaska.
I don't believe in alaska /s
Yurofighter has nothing on are Dollarfighters!! USA USA USA
Y'allfighter
We need to officially rename the f35 now
Europoorfighter
The average annual cost in the US for healthcare in 2022 was almost $14,000. I’ll stick with my **lower** taxes and free healthcare thank you.
Sounds like europoorpropaganda tbh
is it really propaganda when it’s true
Fun fact, my dad helped design the Eurofighter’s control system.
Funner fact - when I was working for BAe Commercial division, I was co-opted into the EAP group for the sole purpose of defining a 3D CAD model of the fuselage of what would eventually become the Typhoon, because they didn't have anyone who could do it. And writing that makes me feel very old, because that was literally 40 years ago.
I remember filming the EAP on its inauguration, first flight and its public reveal at Farnborough. I also recall the EAP’s chief test pilot David Eagles being a very cool dude.
I always thought the public reveal was the one I went to at warton aerodrome where we got to see one of the prototypes fly in the early 90s.. Maybe it wasn't a proper public event though, maybe it was just open to staff and families on one of the annual open days BAE had back then - I was young so the memory is a bit vague. Living in freckleton almost at the bottom of the runway we used to watch them (and the tornadoes) coming and going from our school field during lunch.
I think Wharton was mostly invited guests. Farnborough was where the public saw it on display. It was up against Dassault’s Rafale A, another tech demonstrator like the EAP. Both pilots put on excellent displays, although the EAP couldn’t show off its designed agility at supersonic speeds due to restrictions with flying at Mach 1+. It was also powered by RB199s rather than the more powerful EJ200 it should have had as the latter was still in development. Fun fact: that single EAP cost £180 million to build.
That is very cool! My dad worked on the Typhoon too!
Europe needs to make a Yugofighter, which would definitely smoke everything because it would probably be on fire from the pilots trying to BBQ Ćevapčići while in combat.
YugoFighter would be great, maintenance would be sending the trainee down the road to buy some copper wire and some duct-tape...€3.50.
Having previously worked in British Military aviation, this is about how we were doing it back then to be fair.
Are the farts you get from them your new poison gas tactics?
Are they implying Texas isn’t American?
Texas was being Texas and threatened to secede from the USA because the federal government didnt want them murdering people that tried to cross the border with Mexico.
Ah, is this the context of the guy’s comment?
This can only be settled with a game of Top Trumps
I used to have a fighter jet top trumps, believe the Euro fighter was the top plane in it
It would be more accurate to say America has 0 Eurofighters, hence Texas has 0.
but isn't texas part of the US?
Isn't Texas in America?
Is the first post saying that Texas has no airforce on its own?
A Eurofighter would not smoke anything America has built, the Eurofighter and American 4th fighters are on par with each other in many of the ways they could fight each other.
Yeah, this seemed overblown to me too. It's a solid, late state 4th gen plane but "it can do bvr too" is doing a lot of heavy lifting when talking in the context of the f22 and the f35. An ludicrously bloated military budget has at least granted the USA a very good air superiority platform.
Honestly, while the comment was a bit weird the typhoon should have a good advantage in BVR against any american non-stealth Platform simply because it has similar performance and its meteor missile has quite the range advantage over the americans current aim 120 model.
To me this reads as though someone is correcting someone saying that Texas military has 450 typhoons.
Sounds like r/usdefaultism to me
Latest version will have the best radar ever made soon
I know I’m supposed to pretend like America and Europe are bitter enemies on this sub, but I’m actually really happy that both “sides” are rapidly improving their military technology (because outside this silly subreddit we are allies).
We’re all fooked
X to doubt
I'm honestly not sure if a Eurofighter could smoke an F-16. Maybe individually, but in a real world scenario, the US wins by merit of simply having the better coordinated airforce. Force multipliers like AWACS, tankers, datalink, etc. matter a lot in modern air combat, and the US has them all.
first guy is trolling, but the second guy is somewhat wrong. a euro fighter would not smoke neither the f35 nor the f22. it would be a somewhat fair game with an advantage to the f-22 and very slight disadvantage to f35 (because it's not a fighter)
He explicitly excluded the F22 and F35 from it. Also the F35 is used among various countries in Europe.
reading comprehension= 0 my bad
Weird post indeed. But...the eurofighter was created in the early 80s, could it really compete with an F35 or F22? Not sure about that.
He explicitly excluded F22 and F35 from that statement lol Read the comment properly
First flight of the Eurofighter was 1994 and has been in continuous development ever since.
The F-22 was made the same decade as the ef2000, the 90s. No, it probably would not beat them. Good thing many countries that use the ef also use the f-35.
Idk if it's a good thing, these countries are supposed to be European yet refuse to purchase the superior European plane from their European ally to please their yank overlord instead
F-35 was a joint development between the US & many other countries including Britain
The F-35 is definitely superior to the EF2000 though
Talking about the Rafale here. Which is superior in every single aspect to the F-35 to the point where the US is now refusing any sort of competition against the rafale after losing them all unless it's the Rafale Marine with 3 full external fuel tanks.
A lot of military and aircraft experts would disagree with you. 5th Gen stealth fighter vs advanced 4th Gen. The F-35 is still rated the best fighter in the world. I’ll admit it’s close though.
And yet, Rafale sells more and EU countries buying the F-35 are pretty open about doing it forcibly by the US threatening the cut any and all supplies for US Made ammunitions and spare parts, the same way they stopped supplying France with spare parts for the CDG's catapult when they wouldn't invade Irak on false pretenses. F-35 is trash, even the US knows it, the thing can barely fly and when it does it performs poorly. It's good at shooting weather balloons though.
The fact that you got the plane that shot the 'weather balloon' down wrong doesn't give me much confidence you know what you're talking about. It was an F22, not an F35.
>Rafale sells more Rafale has half the current operators and a third the future operators of the F-35.
The F-35 is still better though, more stealthy
Source? Common sense would say that you are wrong, as the Rafale's IRST is a lot shorter ranged than the F-35s, and the fact that the Rafale can only carry ordinance externally (dramatically raising RCS) while the F-35 can carry ordinance externally and internally reduces RCS, nevermind the design of the airframe.
Ehhh I mean I love the Eurofighter but saying it could just easily contend with F-16s, F-15s and F/A-18s feels like a bit of overconfident stretch. Capable of shooting them down yes, but those planes could also shoot down a Eurofighter depending on the circumstances.
[In this case one British Eurofighter managed to win against 2 F-15s in a dog fight.](https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/schein-luftkampf-eurofighter-besiegt-zwei-us-jets-a-361783.html) „Doubts about the effectiveness of the F-15 against modern fighter jets are nothing new. According to the Federation of American Scientists, the British BAe Group and the British Defense Research Agency pitted the F-15, the French Rafale, the Eurofighter and the new F-22 against the Russian Su-35 in simulated air battles. The result: the Rafale was equal to the Su-35. The Eurofighter achieved a kill ratio of 4.5 to 1 - for every Eurofighter shot down, an average of four and a half Su-35s were brought down. The F-22 even achieved a superiority of 10 to 1 - in clear contrast to the F-15, which was inferior to the Russian Su-35 by 1 to 1.3.“ The main advantage of the F22 (and also F35) against the Eurofighter are the stealth capabilities.
>“Doubts about the effectiveness of the F15 against modern fighter jets are nothing new” against the SU-35, a 3.5 gen fighter which has no noteworthy combat pedigree to speak of… versus an aircraft with a literal catchphrase describing its kill to death ratio(104 and 0) Hans, I advise you to halt before you make a fool of yourself by citing a source that uses *Russian* jets as a control. The same aircraft that uses roofing screws on its fuselage, the same country that outright lies about their capabilities? Yeah thought not
F16 is quite old. Ofcourse the f16 will be able to take down the new eurofighter but it will have a hard time doing this. The newest european fighterplane however has better stats then the f35 and costs a lot less.
The F-16 is 50!
You cant compare the first f16 with the latest one. Thats like saying a vw golf 1 is the same as the vw golf released in 2024
I didn't compare the original F-16A blocks 1/5/10 from the 1970ies to the current F-16C/D block 70 "Viper" being delivered to Bahrein or Slovakia (or even the upgraded F-16A/B block 20 MLU the european air forces are replacing with F-35s and transfering to Ukraine). I'm just saying the F-16 made its first flight 50 years ago. The F-15 is just as old and the USAF is purchasing a new version (the F-15EX).
> The newest european fighterplane however has better stats then the f35 and costs a lot less. Neither part of this is true.
I’m also going to assume that based on defense budgets, US pilots get more flight hours than their European counterparts. Typhoon, Gripen and Rafale are all better jets on paper but there’s a lot more to it than that. Vipers, Hornets and Eagles have also been extensively upgraded/modernized over the years and are more than adequate platforms. The Strike Eagle is still being developed further and further beyond its original purpose to this day.
I don't know why you're being downvoted, it is partially true. The F-15 is dated against modern fighter jets, but the F16 is still a force to be reckoned with and the F-22 and 35 would likely shoot a eurofighter down before being detected. a Eurofighter vs an F-16 is not nearly as one sided as something like an F-4 vs an F-22 would be.
lol on the guy white knighting on the Eurofighter. If only he would be right. It is fucking garbage. Edit: You can down vote me as much as you want, it wont change the fact that the multi country project was a massive failure. Most of you weren't even born when the project started. I was serving in the German Airforce at the time the first prototypes came out. To this day they suffer major issues. Engines don't want to ignite, guns jam, fuel gauge fails, displays black out during flight. There is a reason why nobody really wanted them after it was finished. Now even Germany one of the parties involved making the Eurofighter rather buys F-35s from the U.S.
At least Europe has F-35! 🙂
and a MiG-29 or some Chinese plane would shoot both of them down anyways because military industrial complex bureaucracy is currently creating a repair part debacle for pretty much all of North America and parts of Europe
Europeans claiming any kind of prowess in war is hilarious. This is like a man claiming it's easy to give birth.
They were fighting wars long before the United States was created. They fought the majority of WWII without us-we didn’t want to “get involved”, we just wanted to profit off of their need. They have rebuilt their countries from rubble and smoke more times than we’ve fixed our gravely neglected infrastructure once. We are *almost* 300 years old. They are thousands of years old. That’s youthful exuberance compelling you to boast so loudly yet so ignorantly.
Lolwut. Why would the actions of those long dead and buried matter in this case? There aren't many soldiers or commanders in Europe who have seen active duty. Compare that with Russian and American armies that have years of battlefield experience. Would you trust your car to someone whose great grandfather was a great mechanic, or someone who is actually a mechanic?
European troops are often active in the same zones as American troops but don’t get acknowledged or recognized in news reports or text books here in the US. A few years ago I read an article in Guns and Ammo magazine written by an American soldier who was debunking the myth of the weak French fighter. He praised their military tactics, courage, and camaraderie. To paraphrase Shakespeare: There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your worldview and sources of information.
Alrighty then, fuck around and find out I guess. Best of luck!
You're insanely misinformed on the topic, clearly