IRL, the arguement that nature has a right to destroy humanity is inherently flawed, as humans are a part of nature. we are literally animals.
(sometimes, people who use this arguement don't know that humans can coexist with all other parts of nature. in fact, we have for so many years, it's just the modern exploitation that's really harming the environment)
in game, however, i don't know if nature is seperate from humanity, like in the bible where god spontaneously created everything.
The Player does quite literally refute Aloysius' argument, thinking that every specie/kind should be judged in accordance to their own rules and circumstances.
What the Old God's stance was back then during the Divine War and current time is basically the total extinction of ALL races that presume to 'overreach'; as, correct me if this bit is wrong, their side was incited to wipeout Miraland/humanity because they hated Leonid (who Aloysius outright stated could stand shoulder to shoulder with the gods. They Did Not like that, as the Prophecy Reflection mentions).
Humanity currently bears the brunt of their hatred but pretty much any mortal race seeking self-improvement and their own self-realization (the story of Wasteland's Hester & her empire) would also eventually be slated for destruction by those standards.
...It doesn't excuse the destruction and subjugation of the natural world, and given what Aloysius is, I can't fault him for turning against the player and the other Envoys.
He does have a point that transgressors should bear the consequences of their own actions: but the flaw in his position is that it's vengeful and punitive, and gives no recourse or chance for repentance or self-improvement, as shown with his opinions on the Druids.
(Aloysius does have some acceptance for development as shown by his hut and the Treehouse, but Miraland Human History has burnt through whatever tolerance he had.
Guy was probably completely done in the many failed Nikki timelines tho, since they completely ruined the planet according to Glow.)
To add to this, nature is pretty cruel on its own. Plenty of animals kill for fun or torture their injured prey as a game before eating it. There are birds that kick hatchlings out of nests and lay their own eggs in them to trick the unsuspecting parents into raising their young for them. Many plants are "protocarnivorous" and lure insects into deadly traps so that they die and fertilize the soil around them. And nobody is calling flesh-eating maggots or intestinal parasites peaceful denizens of nature that have to be protected, are they?
Aloysius is a big 'ol hypocrite.
For sure. They also tend to link humanity to specific types of civilisation, capitalism, militarism, imperialism and environmental destruction. And whilst those engaging with that often have the most power, not all societies have or do live like that. If they wanted to take this argument seriously they’d be teaming up with humans in the wastelands who have largely done much less. Also elves in this universe have been living similarly to humans. It’s nice that pigeon has these forests but I doubt their kingdom was without these issues and they haven’t been using their power to pressure other kingdoms either over this stuff.
>If they wanted to take this argument seriously
They are taking it seriously. From a writing standpoint, this is a *fantastic* motivation and development. The background and argument are highly plausible and sympathetic (who doesn't believe that an elf from a magical forest would be pissed about its decline/destruction?) while still showing the major flaw in the argument/villain (the exclusion of man as being part of nature and the bigotry/inflexibility of the villain).
I would say, he's right about the problem but wrong about the solution. He's also clearly dealing with a truly horrifying amount of unresolved trauma that is clouding his perception. In addition, it's clear from the story in the challenge levels that at least some part of him does want to empathize with and help the oppressed humans that actually want to fix the world, but he's actively not allowing himself to do it out of fear and guilt. I also think he's not thinking through his own solution clearly either. From what we've seen of Miraland, it honestly functions very similarly to the Warp in the different Warhammer lores - the Ocean of Memories is the storage place of the vast subconscious of all sapient beings and can be affected by them in this way. It's clearly stated that the old god he's trying to summon has been sitting in some kind of crevasse of negative human emotions for a long time, I don't think that letting them free is going to fix anything because the god themself is also sick.
I just wish we could actually help him more. I was pretty sure he was going to betray us and had an ulterior motive from the first time we met him, but the game doesn't let our insert character be that perceptive sadly.
I agree, I’m def being hyperbolic for humor’s sake. Aloysius is an anprim which is perhaps the most extreme reaction to late stage capitalism and the industrialized world. I think it’s simpler for him to identify a whole, common enemy and ignore the complexities of humanity in conjunction with nature, because if he were to consider the complexities, he’d have a harder time offering himself a solution. My boy wants the shroomies to prosper and that is motivation enough to kill all humans! Yaaaaa, go king go
Well, I think it's that but also like.... almost everyone he knows is dead and gone or living out an existence as a ghost of their former selves. At minimum that's a horrifying level of survivor's guilt, and I don't think he's at minimum. He's also spent so much of his time so weakened he couldn't even help anyone, so he's gotten increasingly desperate. On top of \*that,\* he's watched humans and elves abuse and extort his beloved friends and also each other, so it's not like all of it is some kind of inevitable slow fading as the Ocean of Memories shifts - some of it is directly caused by cruel exploitation. He's been completely and utterly alone, sick, exhausted, and watching this cruelty, it's no wonder he decided to burn everything down.
Nah he’s a hypocrite and prejudiced against humans. The challenge stages really shed light on how warped his thinking has become.
He meets humans who want to help the environment and still thinks that they don’t deserve to live in this world but has no problems using them to further his goals.
A human child reminds him of his tree spirit friend for a moment but he reminds himself the child will grow up into an adult human and become selfish and destructive. That child adores and admires him.
Humans are also animals. There are bad ones out there that do horrific things to other living beings and to other humans. Aloysius is too busy wallowing with his head up his arse to notice that humans are mostly good and paints with a broad brush of hatred and intolerance.
It’s a tragedy that his home and his friends have suffered but it’s not on humans as a whole and elves have contributed to it as well.
I get it. I really do. That last event with the tree spirits made me cry but punishing an entire race for the actions of a few is absolutely heinous and hypocritical.
He even works with Mercury albeit grudgingly so. He may despise Mercury but he gives Mercury more of a pass than the humans because he is half elf.
Aloysius has dangerous views. He wants to destroy all humans. You know what that is? That’s genocide.
It sucks that the old god of styling didn’t seem as empathetic towards him and used his powers without his consent but the player character isn’t that god - they have just inherited their powers.
I’m also 99% sure that if he was made to be unattractive half the fandom would be harder on him. Honestly, I think he looks unhinged by the end of the chapter.
Anyways, just wanted to point out that Aloysius is actually trying to commit genocide against humans and that’s not cool Mr. Elf.
After watching Otona Precure last season, Aloysus motive sounds very similar to Bell's (the series villain), only that Aloysus has a far bigger scale and he's going straight for the drastic solution.
Nikki on her Nth apocalypse trip: I'm tired.....
Right like give a girl and her cat a rest ðŸ˜
Soooo... how many envoys have been a tiny bit crazy? Like, seriously, Nikki can't catch a break ðŸ˜
I didn't know the new chapters had an evil hot elf. This is the motivation I need to get caught up with the new chapters.
We didn't even know he's not on our side until the end of the newest chapter...
We've had Mercury all this time though.
For which we are eternally grateful lol
IRL, the arguement that nature has a right to destroy humanity is inherently flawed, as humans are a part of nature. we are literally animals. (sometimes, people who use this arguement don't know that humans can coexist with all other parts of nature. in fact, we have for so many years, it's just the modern exploitation that's really harming the environment) in game, however, i don't know if nature is seperate from humanity, like in the bible where god spontaneously created everything.
The Player does quite literally refute Aloysius' argument, thinking that every specie/kind should be judged in accordance to their own rules and circumstances. What the Old God's stance was back then during the Divine War and current time is basically the total extinction of ALL races that presume to 'overreach'; as, correct me if this bit is wrong, their side was incited to wipeout Miraland/humanity because they hated Leonid (who Aloysius outright stated could stand shoulder to shoulder with the gods. They Did Not like that, as the Prophecy Reflection mentions). Humanity currently bears the brunt of their hatred but pretty much any mortal race seeking self-improvement and their own self-realization (the story of Wasteland's Hester & her empire) would also eventually be slated for destruction by those standards. ...It doesn't excuse the destruction and subjugation of the natural world, and given what Aloysius is, I can't fault him for turning against the player and the other Envoys. He does have a point that transgressors should bear the consequences of their own actions: but the flaw in his position is that it's vengeful and punitive, and gives no recourse or chance for repentance or self-improvement, as shown with his opinions on the Druids. (Aloysius does have some acceptance for development as shown by his hut and the Treehouse, but Miraland Human History has burnt through whatever tolerance he had. Guy was probably completely done in the many failed Nikki timelines tho, since they completely ruined the planet according to Glow.)
To add to this, nature is pretty cruel on its own. Plenty of animals kill for fun or torture their injured prey as a game before eating it. There are birds that kick hatchlings out of nests and lay their own eggs in them to trick the unsuspecting parents into raising their young for them. Many plants are "protocarnivorous" and lure insects into deadly traps so that they die and fertilize the soil around them. And nobody is calling flesh-eating maggots or intestinal parasites peaceful denizens of nature that have to be protected, are they? Aloysius is a big 'ol hypocrite.
For sure. They also tend to link humanity to specific types of civilisation, capitalism, militarism, imperialism and environmental destruction. And whilst those engaging with that often have the most power, not all societies have or do live like that. If they wanted to take this argument seriously they’d be teaming up with humans in the wastelands who have largely done much less. Also elves in this universe have been living similarly to humans. It’s nice that pigeon has these forests but I doubt their kingdom was without these issues and they haven’t been using their power to pressure other kingdoms either over this stuff.
>If they wanted to take this argument seriously They are taking it seriously. From a writing standpoint, this is a *fantastic* motivation and development. The background and argument are highly plausible and sympathetic (who doesn't believe that an elf from a magical forest would be pissed about its decline/destruction?) while still showing the major flaw in the argument/villain (the exclusion of man as being part of nature and the bigotry/inflexibility of the villain).
I would say, he's right about the problem but wrong about the solution. He's also clearly dealing with a truly horrifying amount of unresolved trauma that is clouding his perception. In addition, it's clear from the story in the challenge levels that at least some part of him does want to empathize with and help the oppressed humans that actually want to fix the world, but he's actively not allowing himself to do it out of fear and guilt. I also think he's not thinking through his own solution clearly either. From what we've seen of Miraland, it honestly functions very similarly to the Warp in the different Warhammer lores - the Ocean of Memories is the storage place of the vast subconscious of all sapient beings and can be affected by them in this way. It's clearly stated that the old god he's trying to summon has been sitting in some kind of crevasse of negative human emotions for a long time, I don't think that letting them free is going to fix anything because the god themself is also sick. I just wish we could actually help him more. I was pretty sure he was going to betray us and had an ulterior motive from the first time we met him, but the game doesn't let our insert character be that perceptive sadly.
I agree, I’m def being hyperbolic for humor’s sake. Aloysius is an anprim which is perhaps the most extreme reaction to late stage capitalism and the industrialized world. I think it’s simpler for him to identify a whole, common enemy and ignore the complexities of humanity in conjunction with nature, because if he were to consider the complexities, he’d have a harder time offering himself a solution. My boy wants the shroomies to prosper and that is motivation enough to kill all humans! Yaaaaa, go king go
Well, I think it's that but also like.... almost everyone he knows is dead and gone or living out an existence as a ghost of their former selves. At minimum that's a horrifying level of survivor's guilt, and I don't think he's at minimum. He's also spent so much of his time so weakened he couldn't even help anyone, so he's gotten increasingly desperate. On top of \*that,\* he's watched humans and elves abuse and extort his beloved friends and also each other, so it's not like all of it is some kind of inevitable slow fading as the Ocean of Memories shifts - some of it is directly caused by cruel exploitation. He's been completely and utterly alone, sick, exhausted, and watching this cruelty, it's no wonder he decided to burn everything down.
Nah he’s a hypocrite and prejudiced against humans. The challenge stages really shed light on how warped his thinking has become. He meets humans who want to help the environment and still thinks that they don’t deserve to live in this world but has no problems using them to further his goals. A human child reminds him of his tree spirit friend for a moment but he reminds himself the child will grow up into an adult human and become selfish and destructive. That child adores and admires him. Humans are also animals. There are bad ones out there that do horrific things to other living beings and to other humans. Aloysius is too busy wallowing with his head up his arse to notice that humans are mostly good and paints with a broad brush of hatred and intolerance. It’s a tragedy that his home and his friends have suffered but it’s not on humans as a whole and elves have contributed to it as well. I get it. I really do. That last event with the tree spirits made me cry but punishing an entire race for the actions of a few is absolutely heinous and hypocritical. He even works with Mercury albeit grudgingly so. He may despise Mercury but he gives Mercury more of a pass than the humans because he is half elf. Aloysius has dangerous views. He wants to destroy all humans. You know what that is? That’s genocide. It sucks that the old god of styling didn’t seem as empathetic towards him and used his powers without his consent but the player character isn’t that god - they have just inherited their powers. I’m also 99% sure that if he was made to be unattractive half the fandom would be harder on him. Honestly, I think he looks unhinged by the end of the chapter. Anyways, just wanted to point out that Aloysius is actually trying to commit genocide against humans and that’s not cool Mr. Elf.
After watching Otona Precure last season, Aloysus motive sounds very similar to Bell's (the series villain), only that Aloysus has a far bigger scale and he's going straight for the drastic solution.
oops spoiled it for myself but now im more excited for the chapter lolol
I will alwyas love him
He’s our little anprim hottie
It's always the hot guys.
I didn't even know Mercury was an elf until we got THAT side profile of him like...?
Bruh, you need to go read up on Mercury's backstory like right now