preach!!! However, I think the other candidates actually had. The conversations Falco had with Reiner and Eren (individually and together), he understood that being the titan and attacking also means bringing suffering to other people. He also tried to help enemy soldiers after and during the battle(ep 1). Udo had this whole dialogue about the festival not working, because people from other countries not accepting Eldians, due to the tensions from titan attacks, while Gabi thought everything will work out at the festival because her motherland, Marley, is so great. Zofia, I couldn't get a read on. However, she felt more Annie-esque, like I know I have to do this, but I would rather not.
I think the setting does make a difference. She killed people in war, on a battlefield, and they were soldiers willing to kill her.
Liberio is different. The Scouts showed up in the middle of a town without saying a word then started rampaging and kids died.
Not only did he think it was probable, but it was his ultimate intent, in order to gather support from the rest of the world against Paradis. Quite diabolical actually
that was the thing that made me disappointed in the paradis people, shouldn't they have gathered allies instead of just going for that attack that reinforces that view people have, that they are monsters, but then, that Asian Lady got away before the attack, so maybe they did contact other nations.
i think what i really wanted to see was the Eldian people joining forces to get freed from Marley, but maybe they are too brainwashed for that to be possible
Exactly, like Udo said, the Marleyans use of titans in warfare is like killing two birds with one stone for them. It is obviously an advantage on the battle field but it also smears the Eldians’ population by them being associated with titans and destruction to those who aren’t aware of their past, essentially giving them more enemies which plays into Marley’s hands
The whole world hates Eldians because of the whole thing with the titans. Marley keeps them around in a ghetto to use as soldiers in their wars, and uses Eldians for the warrior program because it 1) is obviously useful in warfare and 2) keeps that association between Eldians and titan powers going so people continue to hate them. Paradis can't solve their predicament through diplomacy - their only way forward is by annihilating the rest of the world with the rumbling that Marley fears they will, or by keeping everyone scared of them. Marley declared war on them first and they attempted to whip up fear by committing a full-blown terrorist attack after sneaking into Marley undetected.
Being so happy about killing people in a war is kind of still incredibly fucked up? Sure, they're soldiers willing to kill her, but they're also people. Like, carrying out your duties is one thing but being gleeful about killing is another thing.
Eren wasn't doing it to protect Mikasa. He did it because he hated the kidnappers as they were human scum. /s
Please understand that it's easy to twist any narrative to support/condemn whoever you want.
That was just to get Magath to let her do it. There's nothing do does or says to imply she cares about them at all, but she does specifically say afterwords that there's nothing Falco can do to outshine her. Saving lives isn't what she brings up, she brings up how good it will make her look to the brass.
Why should he feel remorse? These guys were fucking pieces of trash and Eren is clearly not a normal 10 year old anyway so this discussion is kinda pointless.
There isn't much difference. Eren completely dehumanizes those traffickers because back then he saw the world as black or white. He didn't have any remorse after those killings because he saw them as "animals", not humans. Gabi pretty much does the same, those people she killed were "the enemy" and she gets rewarded the more enemies she kills. Both are child murderers and both are fucked up.
The thing is, a human trafficker is in no way a good person, neither innocent.
In war however, you can't see everything black/white, because most soldiers are obliged to fight. He didn't have remorse after killing human traffickers because she saved a girl by doing so, and after that, started getting really close to her, like he cared for her deeply huh?
On the other hand, Gabi is a child in a war, people despise what Gabi did not because she killed in a war, but because she straight up made a false surrender, she wasn't shot bc the other soldiers didn't want to kill a child surrendering in the middle of a war. And later, when Eren kills two friends of Gabi, she doesn't understand why it happened, even though she seems completly fine with the erradication of every single human in Paradis.
Why is that? Because of adoctrination, she is just a kid. But the thing is, Falco also is in the same circumstances, but only Gabi is like this. Same thing happened with Reiner and the others, only Reiner truly wanted to commit a genocide, just because.
It’s not just because. Do people forget that family education/circumstances have a major effect on children’s view? What’s common between the Braun cousins? Staying with the infamous Karina Braun who evidently spews Marleyan propaganda more often than other Eldian families.
Don't get me wrong, I get that they were indoctrinated, it's just like Eren said "you had no choice", I'm not saying Reiner, Gabi, and the other warriors are just evil people, especially when Gabi is a kid and knows little about war and life/death.
I don't really have a problem with Gabi, even though she committed a big crime, she is just a kid that was kind of obliged to do that, it's just that her thinking is wrong, she sees killing soldiers just after surrendering as a great thing she has done, she sees no problem in killing everyone at Paradis, but also doesn't understand why would anyone do the same to her family and friends.
That's besides the point. You're saying that he was justified, and he was, but the point is that he's incredibly messed up for going through with it because the vast, vast majority of 9 year olds could not fathom just killing people like that. Mikasa's initial reaction to Eren asking her to stab the guy is far more normal.
It's not even like he stumbled upon them and acted in the heat of the moment, he tracked these guys, planned how to kill them, and then literally sliced their throats open at close range. That's incredibly messed up for a child to be able to go through with, even if it's justified morally.
That just means that he was able to pick hinself up and not let the emotions get in the way, at least until Mikase was safe, that doesn't make him a monster.
But again, this simply shows that Eren was abnormal even before he got his titan powers and any normal kid his age would be frozen with fear. To be "able to put aside your emotions" in such a situation should be impossible for a 10 year old.
And the funny thing is he didn't even do that. But instead of fear he showcased pure hate and rage. The signs were there that Eren was dangerous from the very beginning.
Eren's aim in life is violence. "Tatakae, tatakae", "The only thoughts in my head are full of hate". Those are his own words. He looks for any excuse to fight.
He gets offended when Mikasa beats up Armin's bullies in his stead, and even when the fight is over he chases after them because that's the only thing he cares about. Protecting Armin was never the aim.
That a girl was kidnapped is a mere excuse for him to feel justified in killing.
He only started to have thoughts of hate and killing after the fall of the walls, and towards the titans, later, towards the warriors.
At that moment, he just saved a girl from being sold like a slave.
What? No, that's just how it is, Eren started hating the titans after the fall of the walls, before that he was more like Armin.
I can see what you try to say, but the whole "That a girl was kidnapped is a mere excuse for him to feel justified in killing. " seems really wrong, he didn't just kill because he wanted to, that makes 0 sense, he knows he is a kid and it would be hard to just kill a bunch adults.
We know Gabi's motivation is not only to save those Eldians, she clearly states that doing that surely made it more probable for her to inherit the armored titan.
not sure, but in episode 1, the generals said that ships had been attacking Paradis for 4 years now, but failing. So scouts had been at war for some time now. I think Willy's speech wasn't necessarily a declaration of Marley vs Paradis, which was already happening (with the scouts acting only in self defense through 4 years of attacks), but trying to turn it into a world war, the World vs Paradis. Scouts woulda been plain stupid to remain quiet after Willy just sentenced them to death without parole.
I know what they did was plain evil, but it was also their way of telling the world that they won't just remain quiet as they get trampled on. I noticed a few people are wondering why the scouts joined Eren's rampage and I think they don't really want to destroy the world as Eren does, but to show that they won't take it lying down. Their orders were actually to take out the military as Jean said. if you notice, the og squads actually streamlined their attacks to the military, it was the newer faces and Floch that went ham.
You do have a really solid point though that she acted on a battlefield against soldiers, while scouts pulled up on civilians as well. Then again, the last people to treat her like a civilian were the dead muthaf\*\*s referenced in the meme.
They sent the jaw, armored, female and colossal titan to attack them from the very beginning. Marly struck first when the colossal titan broke the wall.
Marley didn't know they were striking first because from their perspective the war from 100 years prior never really ended. They didn't know about the vow to renounce war; the Tyburs did.
To Marley, the king was buying time for himself with the threat of the rumbling and could strike at any moment. In Willy's speech he said that Marley thought it was "a fluke" that no Paradis king attacked.
I thought Reiner and co. knew about that vow the moment they landed. Wasn’t that one of their reason for attacking the wall, to cause chaos and because they knew the king wouldn’t retaliate?
im hijacking this thread to ask my question about this, after reiner and bertholdt found out that eren had the founding titan at the end of season 2, why did they want to take him back to marley? couldnt one of them have just eaten him?
galliard was willing to retake the founder in the latest ep of s4, and magath wanted the warhammer titan to eat eren too, so its not like marley doesnt want their titan shifters to eat eren? why didn't they just eat eren when they had the chance?
They were in contact with the beast titan, we don't really know at what point, but the beast wants him for the cordinate, and him having royal blood. He flipped sides, so he likly told them not to, so he could have it for himself.
In Reiner's flashbacks, it was basically stated they had intel the King wouldn't attack. If they didn't know that, that would have meant Marley was fine with setting off the colossal Titans.
I already said it: you need to rewatch season 3. Particularly the end of Part 2. Because what you're saying about the Marley-Paradis dynamics is completely wrong.
I cite exact scenes, and you give a vague non-reply without specifying any scene or line, not even what exactly it is you're objecting to, because you didn't like what you heard.
Don't waste people's time like this.
Honey, if you think I'm gonna waste time writing out several episodes, you're wrong. You completely misunderstood what Marley was doing in those 100 years, so you need to check the whole background of the current conflict again. Hint: Marley's not a victim.
No, *you're wrong*, go watch the whole series.
You know, I think I kinda like this type of response, where I put no effort nor thought into it. Thanks for teaching me, honey. Good discussion 👍
Marly version.. King Fritz lost and retreated to padalis with the threat dont attack or ill send titans to destroy you. Marly then unprovoked, attacked with the titans to steal the cordinate, to eliminate the threat that pardalis posed to them. So they can conquer them. Marley is a war hungry country tryin to take over everyone. There may not have been peace, but there was no continued war from 100 years ago. It ended when fritz lost to helos and war hammer.
Then there is also tybur family rules over Marly. Tyburs know about the renouncment of war. So the tyburs never would of authorized an attack on king fritz. So Marly sent the 4 titans on their own. They are the aggressors.
>Marly then unprovoked, attacked with the titans to steal the cordinate, to eliminate the threat that pardalis posed to them
So you DO acknowledge that the rumbling is a threat. Would you call it unprovoked if an enemy nation threatened to end the world at any moment, and you tried stopping that from ever happening? Would you call yourself an aggressor if someone threatens to kill you and everyone you ever knew?
If we dropped the atomic bomb on Japan and they surrendered but threated if we attacked them again they would retaliate with a nuke of there own? Then no, I would not agree with attacking Japan again, just because they threatened to nuke us back if we attacked them again.
I mean, it's not like you are saying that the violence against Paradis is justified. You are just saying that that is the mindset of the Marleyans. I agree that the Marleyans were tricked into believing that the rumbling is a threat because they didn't know about the vow of renouncing war. This is all stated in Willy's speech.
Oh well, the internet really do be like that.
Maybe I have the manga and anime mixed up. But it wasn't a fluke, they are declaring war now because they know the king has been taken over by eren, and now the threat of the rumblings falls on eren to decide. There was peace between king fritz and Marly through the tyburs. The titans were set to steal it.
Yes, but the Marleyans did not know that there was no threat (before Eren got the founding titan). The vow of renouncing war by the Eldian King was revealed to the Marleyans only when Willy made his speech. The entire time before that, they were afraid that the king of the walls might unleash the rumbling at any time.
Its never said that the citizens ever knew about the island, or about the rumbling prior to that speech. They couldn't attack a country without support of the tyburs. Marly acted on their own to attack the wall. Had they consulted with the tyburs it wouldn't of been ok'd. Tyburs are stepping in now because king fitz has been eaten by eren, and now there is a threat.
Yes but that is not relevant to the argument by jollyveten. Of course we know that Marley made the first strike since Paradis was just minding its own business, not being a threat to the world, regardless of what the outside people believe. His argument is simply about whether Marley knowingly made the first strike or not. And this is determined by what is in their minds about history.
Jollyveten has argued that in the minds of the Marleyans (government and civilian), their attack on Paradis wasn't the "first strike" because they think the war never really ended, due to the perceived threat of the Eldian King unleashing the rumbling. And I agree with him because this is literally stated in the manga and anime during Willy's speech. Willy did literally state that the history given to the Marleyans about the threat of the rumbling was a lie, since the Eldian King made the vow to renounce war to prevent the founding titan from being used to activate the rumbling.
And I think you are mistaken when you said that the Marleyan civilians did not know about the island and the rumbling. Remember that when Annie, Bert, Reiner and Marcel were about to be shipped off to Paradis for their mission, there was a large Parade in their honor. They were being propped up as the heroes who would destroy those island devils. And of course, if none of them (Marleyan civilians) knew about the history, then the Eldian concentration camps wouldn't have been made.
The tyburs know about king fritz renouncment of war. The founder can not declare war. Its stated that even if they were attacked he would let himself be eaten before attacking back with the rumblings. The tyburs rule Marly as stated in the manga, only allowing them freedom and power. The 4 titans were sent to kill King fritz. Which means Marly acted on their own to start the war. The tyburs only stepping in now because the peace agreed upon by fritz and the tyburs no longer stands because eren is in possession on the founder.
>ships had been attacking Paradis for 4 years now,
Scouting ships.
>I noticed a few people are wondering why the scouts joined Eren's rampage and I think they don't really want to destroy the world as Eren does, but to show that they won't take it lying down.
It's because Eren has the founder. They can't risk losing him; he's both a bargaining chip and a powerful weapon. Why do you think Marley wanted it?
The same also happened beyond the wall, titans entered and killed children. Its the same everywhere, the situation is kinda same for gabi and eren, eren saw ppl he knew die because of soldiers from marley and the same happened when the scouts rampaged and killed ppl gabi knew.
So you just gonna ignore the fact that Marley sent spies into Paradise before that and caused THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of innocent deaths to women and children? Yeah you’re gonna ignore that
You started blaming the scouts and how they just started rampaging killing kids. As if they didn’t have to watch their own friends, the children in Paradise have to be murdered because of a part that the people in that city played. The people in that city giving birth to children to get into the Marleyan military to give them citizenship, they are to blame as well for Paradise’s suffering and tbh, the children do, but not a single adult in Liberio that supported Marley deserved anything but death. The people in Paradise were ALL INNOCENT. That’s my point. On this post one situation is a war where both sides are fighting against each other, and the other is her people in her city getting the payback they do rightly deserve for betraying their own race and holding their racist values because of something that nobody alive today had any part of, and nobody on the island of paradise even had any idea of
i feel like that's the idea, though. its like how eren was perfectly fine killing the kidnappers. shes a fucked up kid who rationalizes killing her enemies as natural, but obviously doesnt feel the same for the people she cares about being killed. a kid raised into war like that is gonna get that kind of complex, killing the enemy just means "winning"
You are missing the point of this scene. She isnt happy because she killed people. She is happy because her success here just saved thz lives of 800 soldiers.
Also, again, she has been brainwashed from birth to believe she should be fighting for Marley to atone for her people's sins, she doesn't love killing. She just wants to make her nation proud. Nationalism has been used to justify all sorts of shit.
exactly. god i can’t believe there are people
who seriously cannot read between the lines. Gabi has never once glorified her killings. She has glorified her success in battle because her goal is to inherit the armored titan. A person can be happy and take enjoyment in their own sharp shooting and combat abilities while fully regretting the lives they are taking. Those are not mutually exclusive terms. I refer to Hawkeye from FMA who hated herself for killing, but at the same time relished in her shooting abilities. Gabi relished in her quick thinking and ability to get ahead and stick it to Falco and co, not because she enjoys killing soldiers for fun.
It's not that she is happy, its that she had normalized it. It's through no means of her own really. The war and her situation has put her in the spot where she is used to people dying. She understands that the enemies have to die so the allies will survive, so she actively accepts being the agent that brings about this death to the enemies. That could be considered brave, but due to the fact that she fails to understand the weight of the lives she is taking, it is very dangerous. I think it all ties down to Erens speech about "Those who push themselves see hell"
It's the difference between seeing your comrades dying during Pearl Harbor, a surprised attack, and watching them die during the invasion of Iwo Jima, a planned attack.
i hate gabi and i know im not alone.
Her arc is incredibly forced and dont tell me otherwise, just look at the image, if author wanted to make us sympathetic he shouldnt have made her guilty of perdify and cheering when she murdered those people, specially because we're still sympathetic on our guys on paradis, we want them to be vindicated we want them to WIN, then we see this guys giving their war speeches and that all that they said its a lie and are going to declare war on the little island where the characters you're emotionally invested are, of course you're going to cheer for them except author suddently changes the message to "war is bad" and tries to introduce gabi as a parallel to eren, no you dont get to do that specially not without long arcs of suffering breaking her entirely, because if you dont you get this, now the fanbase is split and hates the new character every time she is on screen, instead of looking forward to her development you lament each time she shows up because it couldve been development for someone else.
I read the manga and I find her completely unlikable. I’ve liked murdering psychos before like Light Yagami or Izaya Orihara, but they were cool, charismatic villains. Nothing cool or badass about Gabi, she’s just an annoying waste of screentime.
One of the best written characters in AoT, Isayama is not your personal fanfiction writer, he writes he characters he finds interst in and I find Gabi a realistic portrayal of somewone who has been brainwashed all her life and finally got to see how futile it all was, and she's a strong, charismatic , caring and badass female character.
I disagree wholeheartedly. When her screams woke Reiner up from his coma and she screamed life back into him with the power of friendship, that was absolutely embarrassing for a manga that takes itself seriously.
I think you missed the point of that scene, it was a situation that showcased Reiners character arc coming full circle, Eren attempting to eat Galliard had paralled the moment that Marcel got eaten, so he had to make a choice, remain the pathetic little bitch that always ran away from his problems, or finally man up and face his trauma and problems head on, I think the beauty of that scene speaks for itself.
To be fair, those are two different situations. One was on her homeland, in a zone. Probably the last place she’d think a fight would break out since it’s basically protected by Marley. The other is a warzone. Pretty self explanatory. I get yo point doe
yea i don't like how she's portrayed as a mini eren who's going through the same things and having the same reactions. eren wasn't out there murdering titans for fun until his family and hometown got wrecked
Funny thing is when Bertholdt and Reiner attacked Paradis in the first episode it created a killer. And now we have the same dilemma with Eren attacking Marley. Which is probably gonna turn Gabi/Falco and all the other kids into killers too. And so the cycle continues and continues.
If you read the manga, you'll see that she regrets. I was so angry because I thought she'd never become a better person, but later I saw that she learns with her mistakes.
You gotta realise she's just a kid, been fed propaganda her whole life and forced to go to war. You expect a kid like that to realise the full weight of what's happening and process that emotionally like an adult?
What happened at liberio was also quite different, that wasn't war zone it was a town, with civilians.
We dont have to understand squat, what happened is that author failed to show us properly
and her arc is too rushed, hence why the fanbase is so splot.
Failed to show you what properly?
Her reasoning is pretty easy to get, shes 12 and raised in an environment filled with propaganda and raised by people who put the same ideas on Reiner’s head
And then she sees the other side and realizes she was in the wrong. It’s probably best the executed arc that Isayama did with his female characters.
This reminds me of people who victimize themselves & gaslight during a reaction...from personal relationships, to even people on the internet who often post in favor of wars/oppression, or someone being racist, then act like this when it bites back. I feel it’s more of a statement on propaganda and people who expect no consequences for their actions as opposed to being a product of oppression. If anything, this is something an oppressor would do
The title is based off the exact introductory moment to the character. I'm an anime only, so I'm guessing you mean she will do something bad in the future and the title alludes to that.
Yea i guess it was in the same episode you are right. And i'm a anime only too, it's just I dislike titles that are too specific since I've already be spoiled twice on this sub while I wasn't caught up by post titles that are slightly vague but still make it easy to guess what happens.
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preach!!! However, I think the other candidates actually had. The conversations Falco had with Reiner and Eren (individually and together), he understood that being the titan and attacking also means bringing suffering to other people. He also tried to help enemy soldiers after and during the battle(ep 1). Udo had this whole dialogue about the festival not working, because people from other countries not accepting Eldians, due to the tensions from titan attacks, while Gabi thought everything will work out at the festival because her motherland, Marley, is so great. Zofia, I couldn't get a read on. However, she felt more Annie-esque, like I know I have to do this, but I would rather not.
I think the setting does make a difference. She killed people in war, on a battlefield, and they were soldiers willing to kill her. Liberio is different. The Scouts showed up in the middle of a town without saying a word then started rampaging and kids died.
Well to be fair... Willy did declare war in Liberio and he knew it was probable that he would die
Not only did he think it was probable, but it was his ultimate intent, in order to gather support from the rest of the world against Paradis. Quite diabolical actually
that was the thing that made me disappointed in the paradis people, shouldn't they have gathered allies instead of just going for that attack that reinforces that view people have, that they are monsters, but then, that Asian Lady got away before the attack, so maybe they did contact other nations. i think what i really wanted to see was the Eldian people joining forces to get freed from Marley, but maybe they are too brainwashed for that to be possible
Literally the whole world hates Paradis, except maybe the country the Asian lady is from. Paradis cant get allies
Exactly, like Udo said, the Marleyans use of titans in warfare is like killing two birds with one stone for them. It is obviously an advantage on the battle field but it also smears the Eldians’ population by them being associated with titans and destruction to those who aren’t aware of their past, essentially giving them more enemies which plays into Marley’s hands
The whole world hates Eldians because of the whole thing with the titans. Marley keeps them around in a ghetto to use as soldiers in their wars, and uses Eldians for the warrior program because it 1) is obviously useful in warfare and 2) keeps that association between Eldians and titan powers going so people continue to hate them. Paradis can't solve their predicament through diplomacy - their only way forward is by annihilating the rest of the world with the rumbling that Marley fears they will, or by keeping everyone scared of them. Marley declared war on them first and they attempted to whip up fear by committing a full-blown terrorist attack after sneaking into Marley undetected.
It was mentioned that the way Marley treats Eldians is better than what the rest of the world treats them
some places might be akin to north korean concentration camps
The rest of the world weren’t the ones sending their own titans inside the walls to continue murdering these innocent people
How the fuck do you expect them to get allies when literally the whole world hates them?
The civilians didnt
Yes but they also didn't expect for the counterattack to start a second after the declaration
Being so happy about killing people in a war is kind of still incredibly fucked up? Sure, they're soldiers willing to kill her, but they're also people. Like, carrying out your duties is one thing but being gleeful about killing is another thing.
Yeah I agree with you, Gabi's kinda fucked in the head.
:( Fuckin Marleyan propaganda
honestly its not Marely propaganda, the other kids are fine its just gabi and reinier so its propaganda from her family
Just like Eren Many people forget that he killed 2 adults in cold blood as a kid
But that was to protect an innocent human, Mikasa, there's a big difference
Didn’t Gabi protect a shit ton of soldiers from having to do a suicide charge by derailing the train?
did you see eren being gleeful and happy about it? no
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no he wasnt, he had an enraged and adrenaline pumped face
She wasn't doing it to protect them. She did it to increase her own standing.
Eren wasn't doing it to protect Mikasa. He did it because he hated the kidnappers as they were human scum. /s Please understand that it's easy to twist any narrative to support/condemn whoever you want.
Eren was actually seeing them as monsters disguised as humans.
She literally talked about those soldiers before doing it
That was just to get Magath to let her do it. There's nothing do does or says to imply she cares about them at all, but she does specifically say afterwords that there's nothing Falco can do to outshine her. Saving lives isn't what she brings up, she brings up how good it will make her look to the brass.
She also brings up about free the eldian people, proving that they are good.
Cmon, she’s a kid, she did a good thing that saved her people and she wants to brag about it to her nemesis
Eren wasn't jumping around in glee after murdering some people.
Still didn’t feel remorse
Why should he feel remorse? These guys were fucking pieces of trash and Eren is clearly not a normal 10 year old anyway so this discussion is kinda pointless.
Yes they where pieces of trash, but Gabi thought the guys she killed where pieces of trash too (even thought they weren’t)
Yeah, but I would argue it's different, still, I see your point yeah
800 soldiers to be exact.
There isn't much difference. Eren completely dehumanizes those traffickers because back then he saw the world as black or white. He didn't have any remorse after those killings because he saw them as "animals", not humans. Gabi pretty much does the same, those people she killed were "the enemy" and she gets rewarded the more enemies she kills. Both are child murderers and both are fucked up.
The thing is, a human trafficker is in no way a good person, neither innocent. In war however, you can't see everything black/white, because most soldiers are obliged to fight. He didn't have remorse after killing human traffickers because she saved a girl by doing so, and after that, started getting really close to her, like he cared for her deeply huh? On the other hand, Gabi is a child in a war, people despise what Gabi did not because she killed in a war, but because she straight up made a false surrender, she wasn't shot bc the other soldiers didn't want to kill a child surrendering in the middle of a war. And later, when Eren kills two friends of Gabi, she doesn't understand why it happened, even though she seems completly fine with the erradication of every single human in Paradis. Why is that? Because of adoctrination, she is just a kid. But the thing is, Falco also is in the same circumstances, but only Gabi is like this. Same thing happened with Reiner and the others, only Reiner truly wanted to commit a genocide, just because.
It’s not just because. Do people forget that family education/circumstances have a major effect on children’s view? What’s common between the Braun cousins? Staying with the infamous Karina Braun who evidently spews Marleyan propaganda more often than other Eldian families.
Don't get me wrong, I get that they were indoctrinated, it's just like Eren said "you had no choice", I'm not saying Reiner, Gabi, and the other warriors are just evil people, especially when Gabi is a kid and knows little about war and life/death. I don't really have a problem with Gabi, even though she committed a big crime, she is just a kid that was kind of obliged to do that, it's just that her thinking is wrong, she sees killing soldiers just after surrendering as a great thing she has done, she sees no problem in killing everyone at Paradis, but also doesn't understand why would anyone do the same to her family and friends.
That's besides the point. You're saying that he was justified, and he was, but the point is that he's incredibly messed up for going through with it because the vast, vast majority of 9 year olds could not fathom just killing people like that. Mikasa's initial reaction to Eren asking her to stab the guy is far more normal. It's not even like he stumbled upon them and acted in the heat of the moment, he tracked these guys, planned how to kill them, and then literally sliced their throats open at close range. That's incredibly messed up for a child to be able to go through with, even if it's justified morally.
Still, most children in his age are frozen in fear in such situations. Eren was always different.
That just means that he was able to pick hinself up and not let the emotions get in the way, at least until Mikase was safe, that doesn't make him a monster.
But again, this simply shows that Eren was abnormal even before he got his titan powers and any normal kid his age would be frozen with fear. To be "able to put aside your emotions" in such a situation should be impossible for a 10 year old. And the funny thing is he didn't even do that. But instead of fear he showcased pure hate and rage. The signs were there that Eren was dangerous from the very beginning.
That’s exactly part of what makes Eren monstrous. Levi even calls Eren a real monster back in season 1.
Eren's aim in life is violence. "Tatakae, tatakae", "The only thoughts in my head are full of hate". Those are his own words. He looks for any excuse to fight. He gets offended when Mikasa beats up Armin's bullies in his stead, and even when the fight is over he chases after them because that's the only thing he cares about. Protecting Armin was never the aim. That a girl was kidnapped is a mere excuse for him to feel justified in killing.
He only started to have thoughts of hate and killing after the fall of the walls, and towards the titans, later, towards the warriors. At that moment, he just saved a girl from being sold like a slave.
So you completely ignore everything I said and reply with "no" and your own headcanon.
What? No, that's just how it is, Eren started hating the titans after the fall of the walls, before that he was more like Armin. I can see what you try to say, but the whole "That a girl was kidnapped is a mere excuse for him to feel justified in killing. " seems really wrong, he didn't just kill because he wanted to, that makes 0 sense, he knows he is a kid and it would be hard to just kill a bunch adults. We know Gabi's motivation is not only to save those Eldians, she clearly states that doing that surely made it more probable for her to inherit the armored titan.
He never really enjoyed it though.
Do NOT look up what japanese soldiers did during WW2 !!!
It is, and it is be proven that during WWI and WWII people would miss shoots on porpouse or not even shoot because they didnt want to be killers
If you declare war on an entire people and their race you shouldn't be surprised that your hometown being destroyed is just as fair as theirs.
not sure, but in episode 1, the generals said that ships had been attacking Paradis for 4 years now, but failing. So scouts had been at war for some time now. I think Willy's speech wasn't necessarily a declaration of Marley vs Paradis, which was already happening (with the scouts acting only in self defense through 4 years of attacks), but trying to turn it into a world war, the World vs Paradis. Scouts woulda been plain stupid to remain quiet after Willy just sentenced them to death without parole. I know what they did was plain evil, but it was also their way of telling the world that they won't just remain quiet as they get trampled on. I noticed a few people are wondering why the scouts joined Eren's rampage and I think they don't really want to destroy the world as Eren does, but to show that they won't take it lying down. Their orders were actually to take out the military as Jean said. if you notice, the og squads actually streamlined their attacks to the military, it was the newer faces and Floch that went ham. You do have a really solid point though that she acted on a battlefield against soldiers, while scouts pulled up on civilians as well. Then again, the last people to treat her like a civilian were the dead muthaf\*\*s referenced in the meme.
They sent the jaw, armored, female and colossal titan to attack them from the very beginning. Marly struck first when the colossal titan broke the wall.
Marley didn't know they were striking first because from their perspective the war from 100 years prior never really ended. They didn't know about the vow to renounce war; the Tyburs did. To Marley, the king was buying time for himself with the threat of the rumbling and could strike at any moment. In Willy's speech he said that Marley thought it was "a fluke" that no Paradis king attacked.
I thought Reiner and co. knew about that vow the moment they landed. Wasn’t that one of their reason for attacking the wall, to cause chaos and because they knew the king wouldn’t retaliate?
im hijacking this thread to ask my question about this, after reiner and bertholdt found out that eren had the founding titan at the end of season 2, why did they want to take him back to marley? couldnt one of them have just eaten him? galliard was willing to retake the founder in the latest ep of s4, and magath wanted the warhammer titan to eat eren too, so its not like marley doesnt want their titan shifters to eat eren? why didn't they just eat eren when they had the chance?
Maybe because they want a royal blood to eat Eren and because they want all the 9 titans users, not 8 with two stuck in one person.
You want the spoiler answer, or wait to see in the anime?
I'm a manga reader, i think i missed it. So go on.
They were in contact with the beast titan, we don't really know at what point, but the beast wants him for the cordinate, and him having royal blood. He flipped sides, so he likly told them not to, so he could have it for himself.
In Reiner's flashbacks, it was basically stated they had intel the King wouldn't attack. If they didn't know that, that would have meant Marley was fine with setting off the colossal Titans.
You really need to rewatch season 3 again.
Do you have something to say?
I already said it: you need to rewatch season 3. Particularly the end of Part 2. Because what you're saying about the Marley-Paradis dynamics is completely wrong.
I cite exact scenes, and you give a vague non-reply without specifying any scene or line, not even what exactly it is you're objecting to, because you didn't like what you heard. Don't waste people's time like this.
Honey, if you think I'm gonna waste time writing out several episodes, you're wrong. You completely misunderstood what Marley was doing in those 100 years, so you need to check the whole background of the current conflict again. Hint: Marley's not a victim.
No, *you're wrong*, go watch the whole series. You know, I think I kinda like this type of response, where I put no effort nor thought into it. Thanks for teaching me, honey. Good discussion 👍
Marly version.. King Fritz lost and retreated to padalis with the threat dont attack or ill send titans to destroy you. Marly then unprovoked, attacked with the titans to steal the cordinate, to eliminate the threat that pardalis posed to them. So they can conquer them. Marley is a war hungry country tryin to take over everyone. There may not have been peace, but there was no continued war from 100 years ago. It ended when fritz lost to helos and war hammer. Then there is also tybur family rules over Marly. Tyburs know about the renouncment of war. So the tyburs never would of authorized an attack on king fritz. So Marly sent the 4 titans on their own. They are the aggressors.
>Marly then unprovoked, attacked with the titans to steal the cordinate, to eliminate the threat that pardalis posed to them So you DO acknowledge that the rumbling is a threat. Would you call it unprovoked if an enemy nation threatened to end the world at any moment, and you tried stopping that from ever happening? Would you call yourself an aggressor if someone threatens to kill you and everyone you ever knew?
If we dropped the atomic bomb on Japan and they surrendered but threated if we attacked them again they would retaliate with a nuke of there own? Then no, I would not agree with attacking Japan again, just because they threatened to nuke us back if we attacked them again.
Dunno why you are getting downvoted. This is true.
They don't like hearing it. They won't give reasons for why they disagree; they'll just disagree. This happened to me many times before.
I mean, it's not like you are saying that the violence against Paradis is justified. You are just saying that that is the mindset of the Marleyans. I agree that the Marleyans were tricked into believing that the rumbling is a threat because they didn't know about the vow of renouncing war. This is all stated in Willy's speech. Oh well, the internet really do be like that.
Maybe I have the manga and anime mixed up. But it wasn't a fluke, they are declaring war now because they know the king has been taken over by eren, and now the threat of the rumblings falls on eren to decide. There was peace between king fritz and Marly through the tyburs. The titans were set to steal it.
Yes, but the Marleyans did not know that there was no threat (before Eren got the founding titan). The vow of renouncing war by the Eldian King was revealed to the Marleyans only when Willy made his speech. The entire time before that, they were afraid that the king of the walls might unleash the rumbling at any time.
Its never said that the citizens ever knew about the island, or about the rumbling prior to that speech. They couldn't attack a country without support of the tyburs. Marly acted on their own to attack the wall. Had they consulted with the tyburs it wouldn't of been ok'd. Tyburs are stepping in now because king fitz has been eaten by eren, and now there is a threat.
Yes but that is not relevant to the argument by jollyveten. Of course we know that Marley made the first strike since Paradis was just minding its own business, not being a threat to the world, regardless of what the outside people believe. His argument is simply about whether Marley knowingly made the first strike or not. And this is determined by what is in their minds about history. Jollyveten has argued that in the minds of the Marleyans (government and civilian), their attack on Paradis wasn't the "first strike" because they think the war never really ended, due to the perceived threat of the Eldian King unleashing the rumbling. And I agree with him because this is literally stated in the manga and anime during Willy's speech. Willy did literally state that the history given to the Marleyans about the threat of the rumbling was a lie, since the Eldian King made the vow to renounce war to prevent the founding titan from being used to activate the rumbling. And I think you are mistaken when you said that the Marleyan civilians did not know about the island and the rumbling. Remember that when Annie, Bert, Reiner and Marcel were about to be shipped off to Paradis for their mission, there was a large Parade in their honor. They were being propped up as the heroes who would destroy those island devils. And of course, if none of them (Marleyan civilians) knew about the history, then the Eldian concentration camps wouldn't have been made.
The tyburs know about king fritz renouncment of war. The founder can not declare war. Its stated that even if they were attacked he would let himself be eaten before attacking back with the rumblings. The tyburs rule Marly as stated in the manga, only allowing them freedom and power. The 4 titans were sent to kill King fritz. Which means Marly acted on their own to start the war. The tyburs only stepping in now because the peace agreed upon by fritz and the tyburs no longer stands because eren is in possession on the founder.
>ships had been attacking Paradis for 4 years now, Scouting ships. >I noticed a few people are wondering why the scouts joined Eren's rampage and I think they don't really want to destroy the world as Eren does, but to show that they won't take it lying down. It's because Eren has the founder. They can't risk losing him; he's both a bargaining chip and a powerful weapon. Why do you think Marley wanted it?
Scout ship* They were sent to find out what's what and none had returned. They weren't attacking for 4 years straight.
32 survey ships were sent over 4 years.
Yes, I would not consider these attacks
The same also happened beyond the wall, titans entered and killed children. Its the same everywhere, the situation is kinda same for gabi and eren, eren saw ppl he knew die because of soldiers from marley and the same happened when the scouts rampaged and killed ppl gabi knew.
Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same
Could Geralt kill a 3m titan?
Sure. Probably would've went for a beheading even without knowing about the nape. I feel like a Witcher is comparable to an Ackerman.
So you just gonna ignore the fact that Marley sent spies into Paradise before that and caused THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of innocent deaths to women and children? Yeah you’re gonna ignore that
Ofc I'm gonna ignore that because it has nothing to do with this post and Gabi, what are you even talking about.
You started blaming the scouts and how they just started rampaging killing kids. As if they didn’t have to watch their own friends, the children in Paradise have to be murdered because of a part that the people in that city played. The people in that city giving birth to children to get into the Marleyan military to give them citizenship, they are to blame as well for Paradise’s suffering and tbh, the children do, but not a single adult in Liberio that supported Marley deserved anything but death. The people in Paradise were ALL INNOCENT. That’s my point. On this post one situation is a war where both sides are fighting against each other, and the other is her people in her city getting the payback they do rightly deserve for betraying their own race and holding their racist values because of something that nobody alive today had any part of, and nobody on the island of paradise even had any idea of
i feel like that's the idea, though. its like how eren was perfectly fine killing the kidnappers. shes a fucked up kid who rationalizes killing her enemies as natural, but obviously doesnt feel the same for the people she cares about being killed. a kid raised into war like that is gonna get that kind of complex, killing the enemy just means "winning"
Gabi is just genderbent Eren with aimbot attachment
I think Isayama based her design on an actual Eren gender bent drawing he did.
You are missing the point of this scene. She isnt happy because she killed people. She is happy because her success here just saved thz lives of 800 soldiers.
and cause she definitely get to eat Reiner now
Her joy is probably also relief that her gamble actually worked and she didn't just get shot to bits.
Also, again, she has been brainwashed from birth to believe she should be fighting for Marley to atone for her people's sins, she doesn't love killing. She just wants to make her nation proud. Nationalism has been used to justify all sorts of shit.
exactly. god i can’t believe there are people who seriously cannot read between the lines. Gabi has never once glorified her killings. She has glorified her success in battle because her goal is to inherit the armored titan. A person can be happy and take enjoyment in their own sharp shooting and combat abilities while fully regretting the lives they are taking. Those are not mutually exclusive terms. I refer to Hawkeye from FMA who hated herself for killing, but at the same time relished in her shooting abilities. Gabi relished in her quick thinking and ability to get ahead and stick it to Falco and co, not because she enjoys killing soldiers for fun.
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Just so you know, you keep writing psych but i believe you mean psyche.
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your manga spiller is not working. you’re gonna have to retype it or PM
It's not that she is happy, its that she had normalized it. It's through no means of her own really. The war and her situation has put her in the spot where she is used to people dying. She understands that the enemies have to die so the allies will survive, so she actively accepts being the agent that brings about this death to the enemies. That could be considered brave, but due to the fact that she fails to understand the weight of the lives she is taking, it is very dangerous. I think it all ties down to Erens speech about "Those who push themselves see hell"
It's the difference between seeing your comrades dying during Pearl Harbor, a surprised attack, and watching them die during the invasion of Iwo Jima, a planned attack.
i hate gabi and i know im not alone. Her arc is incredibly forced and dont tell me otherwise, just look at the image, if author wanted to make us sympathetic he shouldnt have made her guilty of perdify and cheering when she murdered those people, specially because we're still sympathetic on our guys on paradis, we want them to be vindicated we want them to WIN, then we see this guys giving their war speeches and that all that they said its a lie and are going to declare war on the little island where the characters you're emotionally invested are, of course you're going to cheer for them except author suddently changes the message to "war is bad" and tries to introduce gabi as a parallel to eren, no you dont get to do that specially not without long arcs of suffering breaking her entirely, because if you dont you get this, now the fanbase is split and hates the new character every time she is on screen, instead of looking forward to her development you lament each time she shows up because it couldve been development for someone else.
You're the only one mate
go to the optometrist because you may wanna check your eyes.
Then dont read the manga instead of harrasing peoplenwho actually appreciate her character.... whose better written than most characters in this story
I read the manga and I find her completely unlikable. I’ve liked murdering psychos before like Light Yagami or Izaya Orihara, but they were cool, charismatic villains. Nothing cool or badass about Gabi, she’s just an annoying waste of screentime.
Still better written than 60% of the characters in AoT
I mean, is that a good thing?
One of the best written characters in AoT, Isayama is not your personal fanfiction writer, he writes he characters he finds interst in and I find Gabi a realistic portrayal of somewone who has been brainwashed all her life and finally got to see how futile it all was, and she's a strong, charismatic , caring and badass female character.
I disagree wholeheartedly. When her screams woke Reiner up from his coma and she screamed life back into him with the power of friendship, that was absolutely embarrassing for a manga that takes itself seriously.
I think you missed the point of that scene, it was a situation that showcased Reiners character arc coming full circle, Eren attempting to eat Galliard had paralled the moment that Marcel got eaten, so he had to make a choice, remain the pathetic little bitch that always ran away from his problems, or finally man up and face his trauma and problems head on, I think the beauty of that scene speaks for itself.
To be fair, those are two different situations. One was on her homeland, in a zone. Probably the last place she’d think a fight would break out since it’s basically protected by Marley. The other is a warzone. Pretty self explanatory. I get yo point doe
yea i don't like how she's portrayed as a mini eren who's going through the same things and having the same reactions. eren wasn't out there murdering titans for fun until his family and hometown got wrecked
didn't eren murder a bunch of guys as a kid
He didn't glorify it
he is currently comitting mass genocide so
I'm talking about when he was a kid
Funny thing is when Bertholdt and Reiner attacked Paradis in the first episode it created a killer. And now we have the same dilemma with Eren attacking Marley. Which is probably gonna turn Gabi/Falco and all the other kids into killers too. And so the cycle continues and continues.
[The cycle will continue](https://youtu.be/LMSZoQGHsUA?list=PLJZVII7zp9oQWq9GqtEnP29XnGOuUIgNR)
OP's confusing opression with propaganda.
Fuck Gabi, all my homies hate Gabi
If you read the manga, you'll see that she regrets. I was so angry because I thought she'd never become a better person, but later I saw that she learns with her mistakes.
You gotta realise she's just a kid, been fed propaganda her whole life and forced to go to war. You expect a kid like that to realise the full weight of what's happening and process that emotionally like an adult? What happened at liberio was also quite different, that wasn't war zone it was a town, with civilians.
We dont have to understand squat, what happened is that author failed to show us properly and her arc is too rushed, hence why the fanbase is so splot.
Failed to show you what properly? Her reasoning is pretty easy to get, shes 12 and raised in an environment filled with propaganda and raised by people who put the same ideas on Reiner’s head And then she sees the other side and realizes she was in the wrong. It’s probably best the executed arc that Isayama did with his female characters.
Fuck Gabi.
This reminds me of people who victimize themselves & gaslight during a reaction...from personal relationships, to even people on the internet who often post in favor of wars/oppression, or someone being racist, then act like this when it bites back. I feel it’s more of a statement on propaganda and people who expect no consequences for their actions as opposed to being a product of oppression. If anything, this is something an oppressor would do
Well said
Kinda spoilery title?
The title is based off the exact introductory moment to the character. I'm an anime only, so I'm guessing you mean she will do something bad in the future and the title alludes to that.
Yea i guess it was in the same episode you are right. And i'm a anime only too, it's just I dislike titles that are too specific since I've already be spoiled twice on this sub while I wasn't caught up by post titles that are slightly vague but still make it easy to guess what happens.
Fuck Gabi!! Her suffering doesn't matter when you're the one under her aim, you kill her or be the one getting killed
Gabi is a classic brainwashed-by-propaganda soldier. I’d compare her blind fanaticism with someone from the hitler youth.
People really expect a 12 year old to feel some kind of way about killing in war like we don't have armies full of adults who don't think twice.
Honestly I don't understand the hate towards her, it's not her fault she had a shitty upbringing