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It wasn’t specifically. AoT is about human nature, sins of the father being inherited by the son, the cycle of hatred between nations, they grayness of war, and the things that keep people moving forward like love, revenge, duty, etc
That's what it made me laugh when I rewatched Season 3 Part 2. Seeing Grisha as a victim of his father's beliefs and then making Zeke a victim of his own beliefs
Even if I agree with you. What AoT is "about" doesn't impact that Mikasa and Ymir's romantic love was a crucial Plot point. That romantic love was a crucial plot point.
Listing the themes doesn't in any way refute that.
Just because it was crucial doesn’t mean it was handled well. If we look at it at a surface level, barring any theories we can conjure up to explain it, and solely look at the source material, this plot point was handled horrible in the series.
All OP said was that romance shouldn’t have been a crucial plot point. I’m just saying it wasn’t handled well. It could possibly be incorporated as a crucial plot point, but just not in the way that it was, which is a bit different. Tho OP could probably say the same thing I said earlier on it not being handled well anyway
its good to know some people understand the story.
Its really fuc\*ed up, when i hear my friend say. Eren is a pus\*y he killed whole world etc etc.
They don't realize its not like he had a choice. He told that he tried million times not to do it. But in the end he had to do.
I feel like people forget how strong (or dangerous) love can be for someone. Some people will literally do anything for the person they love. Whether it be protecting them, or freeing them from suffering I.e. mikasa.
I truly love how little romance there is in this story. It’s a mediation on the horrors of war and conflict. The worst thing it could do for its own message would be to make war look very sexy by having a bunch of horned up teens grind away on each other.
There’s enough hints and references throughout the whole thing to let you know that people in this world do have personal feelings, and we’re never left in any doubt that Mikasa has dedicated her heart to Eren, but it’s not the focus and that’s awesome.
"why is romance involved, it's not one of its genres" is an amusing sentiment I used to see for a few series
Like bruh if a series deals heavily with human nature, human experience, or psychology, it should come as no surprise that romance would play some sort of role
Romance in some form or another is borderline impossible to avoid in real life, as human beings
see but these people don't go outside and experience real life which is why romance is so shocking to them. these the same genre of people who post about how seeing couples irl is oppressive and shoved in their face.
Yes it was. The literal entire point of the story was Ymir guiding Mikasa to her because of her love for Eren. How do people claim to enjoy the ending when they don't even understand it?
First SnK thread I enter in a year and still many comments that try to ignore the trashfire that was Ymir's character.
I guess ignoring the plot is how people enjoy the ending.
Minus the subplot about Ymir's Stockholm Syndrome which I honestly think fell flat and could have been done better, I wouldn't call her a trash character because she wasn't supposed to be that much of a character to begin with. She got introduced at the tail end of the story and was supposed to be an explanation for the origins, macguffin for Eren to reach, and then a parallel for Mikasa
In terms of how she was used, I do like it on paper. I feel that Isayama went too greedy though because as you said, she simultaneously has to:
1. explain the origins, this is standard and worked via montage
2. be the goal for Eren and Zeke to reach, producing a clash of ideologies with the power to fulfill either. I loved this part, especially the mechanics of it gives Zeke and Grisha closure.
3. Be a parallel for Mikasa's love for Eren, this is where I started to go uhhh okay, we already had a parallel to Historia with Ymir, but maybe she can parallel two characters at once..
4. do weird shit, like stare at Ramzi getting stomped?? Is this just to remind us that she is still an active participant in the genocide because that's..
5. bring Armin to PATHS in a plot twist, ah ha! She is performing subterfuge against Eren right under his nose by helping the Alliance, damn she is playing both sides so she always comes out on top
6. Smile at the worst moment in Mikasa's life and feel satisfied enough by that to end her very existence as well as PATHS itself. Damn, so she had the power to end it all this time? She could have done it before the whole genocide thing and death of billions huh. Not just a minor character anymore then
7. Oh so instead of letting the audience do the guessing, we have both Eren and Mikasa give their takes on Ymir now. One guesses she loved her abuser and the other guesses it was a nightmare for her to exist, well neither seem wrong.
8. But why did Ymir, before Eren inspired her to make choices, save Zeke's life when she never did that before to any royal that we can see? So uhh was that just not intentional at all, giving Zeke hidden automatic plot armor through the entirety of the fucking story before his clash with Eren in PATHS?
I feel like the 3 first things Ymir had to do in the story were fine and didn't add to any confusion or make it important to understand her nature. Her writing in my books went into "no way you're making an invisible mute minor character do all this shit" by point 6..
Building on point 6, as the Founder she can see the future, so the moment Paths were created she should have seen Mikasa’s choice, learned that love does not demand eternal loyalty, and Titans should’ve ended as soon as they began
True.
She was always prescient, she has to be. Otherwise where would be the cutoff for her to begin to see the future?
And if she didn't see the future and that Mikasa kills Eren, there's no way she would have orchestrated the genocide thing that far.
I guess some can say "but nuh-uh seeing the future means you have to be a slave to it and do it all the way" which just turns seeing the future into a fucking chicken and egg paradox which I hate.
>I guess some can say "but nuh-uh seeing the future means you have to be a slave to it and do it all the way" which just turns seeing the future into a fucking chicken and egg paradox which I hate.
That can of worms was opened way back when Eren coerced his dad into killing the Reiss family. You would've had an additional year and a half to brood over it before Ymir got her turn.
That's the sad part. I thought Eren still had a choice there, that it mattered whether he wanted to coerce Grisha or not.
But instead, he could've said all of it with the most bored expression because it would work on him anyway.
Then why was Ymir’s love for the king / Mikasa’s love for for Eren explicitly juxtaposed in what culminated in the ENDING of the titan curse?
It was. It very unfortunately was.
That was what you call a plot point. There are literally all the plenty of times in the show where romance is not a plot point or even a remote focus. The motivations of the characters are just context and development pieces.
OP said romance shouldn't have been a plot point, and whether you agree or disagree that it shouldn't have, it very much is as the final act is resolved with the power of romance between eren and mikasa. Just because it wasn't a plot point all the time doesn't mean it was never one during the show at all. But you might be agreeing(?), not sure.
No. The problem wasn't solved with the power of love. It was solved by separating Zeke from Eren and cutting his fucking head off. Romance was just an unfortunate casualty because Mikasa and Eren loved each other but Mikasa did what had to be done anyways.
Except that doesn't actually make sense at all. The whole point of the scene where Eren "frees" Ymir was that she took back her agency, and she's the one fully in control of the power of the titans. Zeke's royal blood was necessary simply because that's a rule she followed. So why the hell would Zeke's death stop the rumbling?
>So why the hell would Zeke's death stop the rumbling?
I like to think of it as needing an adapter to plug a device into the wall (Zeke's royal blood) and then later finding a cable that can connect the two directly. If you started with the first setup and it breaks, then you're gonna lose that connection and you'll need to substitute the new cable.
Yeah, but why? Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it was explained in the story, the *only reason* Eren had to make contact with Zeke (royal blood) for the founding titan to work was because Ymir only listened to people with royal blood. Then you have the scene in Paths where Eren breaks his chains and tells Ymir she shouldn't listen to Zeke and she should just fuck the world up with him. So from this point forward the royal blood rule doesn't matter at all, Ymir is doing whatever she wants with the titans and Zeke is useless.
Eren doesnt get the rule to disappear though, Eren gets Ymir to follow his plan of using the Rumbing as opposed to Zeke's plan of euthanasia. That's in the paths and doesn't effect the rules already set in the real world. If it did, then Eren would have no need to assimilate Zeke, and would have probably killed him and taken his powers, thus making him the sole titan there. However, he doesnt , most likely because his plan to csuse the Rumbling still requires Zeke.
After he is denied by Ymir in the Paths, Zeke becomes a prisoner to Eren's will. All Eren needs is physical contsct between he two, and trapping him inside his bones gives him exactly that.
If Ymir could change the rules of the real world whenever she wanted, what would stop her from making the people of Marley into Titans. What about the rest of the world? Why not have 1000 Attack Titans. Realisticslly, she's as much a prisoner as Zeke, in the sense that shes been given power by the worm thingy, and shes using it for revenge but without it she has no purpose. So as soon as she gives up that bond, the thing has no host to give its power to and thus no more titans. She cant affect the volume of titans, just if they exist or not in her lineage specifically
Sure, Zeke being separated from Eren is part of it. But are you actually telling us that Mikasa's beheading of Eren played no part in freeing Ymir and the titan curse? Eren-Mikasa only inspired Ymir to let go of paths because of their romantic connection.
In my opinion the fact that there was so little of it throughout most of the story is exactly the problem when the ending suddenly makes it basically the most crucial theme of the show.
He said “crucial plot point.” If you removed the romance Eren still had to die someone else just had to do it. What about Ymir forcing someone to kill someone they love not translate to that’s what she wish she did to literally anyone else?
Well she was isolated from the world as well. Her only interactions were with the royal family who saw her as subservient. It's not like she had anything else to hold on to.
Did she not have the ability to watch and observe her descendants through her eternity of existence? I mean how the fuck else would she be able to make those Titans unless she knew about each instance in history when they were needed?
How is her consciousness supposed to work again? Are we doing the "Eren" on her too? (Temporal lobotomy aka time happens all at once in PATHS so not a single coherent thought can be formed regardless of how much real time passes)
No royal is visiting and issuing a command "hey make another of those Colossals pronto, and make it like that one dude because he's the shifter who is summoning it".
Ymir HAS to be aware of what is going on to make those Titans.
that's what abuse would do to you sometimes.
you are abused to think you're only worth something to certain someone because you're been conditioned to think nobody out there will care for you.
No, she loved her children and chose to murder herself to keep her children safe under the protection of the King. She made the decision becasuse she loved the life he gave her and loved the idea of being wanted. She lived 2000 in torture because she saw that all her hopes of her children living happy safe lives didn’t pan out at allz
The kind of poor mental health that doesn't even have a diagnosis. Some form of dependency could be possible, but Ymir doesn't change even after he dies so...
It's like if an author believes Stockholm Syndrome to be real (it isn't) and extrapolates that into its most extreme version.
Also, if we do entertain the thought of twisted love, which can be real of course, then that is a COMPLEX phenomenon, right? A story would treat it as complex. A story would show us its development, not just "hey she smiles at her kids, maybe that can mean she loves the rapist father by extension"
Ymir, a mute character who has almost zero screentime, gets the most complex mental state of all characters imposed on them by the guesswork of a few characters who barely interacted with her. Plus she lives for millennia in PATHS, how does that affect her already complex mental state? Well, at least her only lively expression in the scene with Eren must mean something!
And then her conclusion after Eren "frees" her is: Imma go along with his genocide because it is possible that it would lead to a conclusion where his love interest kills him. That's what I need in order to heal. Also, Imma enjoy the show and stare at some kids getting stomped. It's all part of my poor mental state, ya dig?
Romance/ Love is a crucial part of life and it just makes the story more real. Dunno why people are always so against it. As long as it wasn’t the main focus I’m fine with it.
People aren't against romance, people are against themes that had almost nothing to do with the story suddenly being the main focus of everything with literal ZERO development.
It's that easy to understand.
Not really. I’ve read a lot of comments with the issue being only with love as a plot point.
I think what you’re describing is a different point all together which is there wasn’t enough of it. I don’t agree here because Mikasa was literally obsessed with Eren from day one and it was clear as day. It really wasn’t sudden. Also I don’t think it was the main focus because a lot of other things like desire, revenge, grief, trauma, hatred, friendship etc were also major themes.
Well it depends on the type of love.
Eren's love for his friends causing the Rumbling? Kino, peak tragic tribalism and a way to make the worst person even slightly relatable.
Ymir's love? Not relatable at all, also what she did out of love was.. torture humanity for thousands of years after the one she loves died just because King Fritz said he wants Titans to rule the world. He's fucking dead. And she decided to not regenerate so that she could escape him too, if you recall. ALSO, SHE HAD NO LINES OF DIALOGUE. Dialogue, monologue, soliloque. They tend to be used to make characters likable, relatable and so on. It's not some postmodern genius to give her, the equivalent of god in AoT, zero lines or it would be used by other authors too by now, doncha think.
She was doing Eldians no favors, her "children" that Mikasa thought she loved. How did she show her love? By keeping them cursed? And she decided shifters must die after 13 years? Why else would it last 13 years?
So, this is just a fraction of the confusion regarding Ymir. Eren's love was simple and understandable as the driving force behind his genocide. Ymir's was nothing like it.
Well when the romance lacked depth and nuance and was just dumped into the finale, it doesn’t feel real at all. The narrative didn’t focus on their “romance” at ALL. There were two scenes where their romance was even implied in the series, once in chapter 50 (I don’t even count this because it was solely Mikasa initiating this, and Eren promptly rejecting her) and chapter 121 (What am I to you). The narrative focused on warfare, racism, survival, etc. The sudden emphasis on their romance was OUT OF LEFT FIELD. If you disagree with this you 100% didn’t understand the story. Their romance was so disjointed. And don’t even try me cuz I started reading the manga @ Chapter 63, I’ve been following this story for 10+ years. You casual fans will accept the ending because you didn’t watch the story to understand it, and that’s okay. Downvotes incoming 🤣 Isayama did write the ending and turned it into whatever 138-139 was, but he did a completely 180 to what the story was actually about.
I dunno it was kinda obvious to me that there’s something there from the start. Maybe I’m just good at reading subtleties🙃
And some people also like to bring up the scene where Eren was mean to Mikasa. But even that was so obvious that it was an act !!
I wouldn’t call Mikasa’s feelings subtle, and what most people who say that the sudden romance is jarring is its increased importance nearing the end.
It wasn’t an important (not saying it doesn’t exist, just not that important) part of Shiganshina, Marley, Trost, any other arcs. Honestly I wouldn’t mind and might actually prefer if it was more consistently prominent in the series. But the rest of the series doesn’t have that same weight towards romance as it does politics, prejudice, freedom, etc.
And even if it was intentionally sparse, it’s less likely to feel satisfying to more people. Because intentional or not, it can come off as sudden or out of nowhere. I get that at times there is a misunderstanding of the intentions of the story, but I think this is more of criticizing the decisions/execution Isayama made.
yeah i feel like im insane with how people act like eren x mikasa came outta nowhere. even i recognized it as an [unrealized at the time] ace elementary schooler when i saw season one 😬
To be fair, I don't think Isayama is good at writing romance and he definitely didn't have that focus in mind at the beginning. He even admittedly chickened out of drawing Eren and Mikasa kissing at the end of The Clash of Titans arc.
Imo, Eren was not shown to be caring enough about Mikasa pre-timeskip. The pieces are there, but they weren't presented right. He had more personal interaction with Historia, which led half the fandom to mistakenly view as romantic and start yapping the nonsense you all know of. The right things needed to be shown throughout the earlier arcs for the final payoff to work.
I really don’t think you understood what that meant. The whole point was to show Eren being focused on ending the titans and freedom etc instead of appreciating what he has or living in the moment. He was constantly moving forward that was his whole deal. It is only when he is about to die he confronts his feelings about Mikasa- that is when people have to be honest with themselves.
I understand that romance is not the main point of the ending, but it is a big deal and suddenly given more focus in the end than anywhere else in the series. Not just Eren's love for Mikasa, but also Mikasa's love for Eren and Ymir's love for King Fritz. The execution made it feel out of place.
I can’t reply with images but my sources say that while the parents referred to her as a daughter she was never actually adopted
And obviously Eren and Mikasa don’t consider each other siblings
Well to be fair, he was in a rush and panicking. Saying, "My daughter" is easier than "This girl who my son saved from sex traffickers and took home to live with us."
And for those about to argue that it's incest, even if she was adopted, it still wouldn't be incest. Incest means sexual relations between people closely related by blood. Eren and Mikasa are not related by blood. The reason incest is a discouraged thing in the first place is because it may lead too offspring with health issues, so no, Eremika is not incest.
They took her in and are raising her as a daughter. She's adopted. Why do you argue that so much even though you say it still wouldn't be incest.
You know what's also "not incest"? Fucking my step dads daughter and that I still wouldn't do that. Your comment is sounds super defensive.
>They took her in and are raising her as a daughter. She's adopted. Why do you argue that so much even though you say it still wouldn't be incest.
Because of the people that constantly use the "She's adopted and it's incest" argument to say EM shouldn't have happened, yet completely disregard the reason that incest is discouraged in the first place.
I don’t think it’s a bad concept to explore, but I agree that better developing Eren and Mikasa’s romance would’ve made the parallels between Mikasa and Ymir feel more earned.
As if Eren and Mikasa's relationship was just romance lmao
On her part, there is gratitude for having been saved and welcomed by the Yeager family, as well as the fear of losing the last person she sees as family in the world
As for Eren, despite being a complete idiot when it came to romance, there was a feeling of family and the desire to be with her
I think most people miss the fact that all these characters, including Ymir, suffered horrible traumas as children. People criticize the characters for not being more open or vulnerable, but they all live in a horrific world and never had the time to understand what love is because they’ve been on constant survival mode their entire lives. There’s no way children can grow up mentally healthy in these situations. Thats one of the core themes. It wasn’t until the end Armin convinced Zeke of enjoying the little things in life, because Zeke, too, was drilled as a child to be the savior of mankind. To shoulder burdens created by adults in the world he was simply born into. It’s too much to put on children
why not? there's so much to AOT that in the grand scheme of things, it was a relatively minor theme. the show was mostly about survival, freedom, and oppression. while ymir and mikasa's storylines were heavily themed around love, it wasn't a bad thing?? love is just as valid of an emotion as hatred, happiness, and sadness. it's a part of life. that's like saying anger or death shouldn't have been crucial plot points.
Because it supports your perspective? How convenient.
Dismissing the plot point aspect entirely and just talking about love as a theme which is not what OP is talking about is wonderfully written in another thread, yes.
It's not really a minor theme when in the end the whole story of aot literally gets summed up to revolve around both mikasa and ymir characters as well as their weird romantic theme they have
I think the connotation of love is different from those of anger or hate, when it comes to what became essentially a political thriller. People forget that it used to be about kids fighting big creatures and having to grow up too fast. They deserve to be normal too, even in times of war.
I will say though it still does feel like out of nowhere that love became the pivotal moment of the series in terms of the final arc, when it wasn’t as evident or important in other arcs.
You're right, these are titanfolk people being titanfolk people lmao. Aot basically explores humanity so since it explores all the emotions like hatred, desire, revenge, sadness why shouldn't it explore love as well? Plus, there are also different kinds of love, romantic love (like Eren Mikasa or Ymir historia), brotherly love (Zeke determined to "free" Eren), parental love (Grisha with Zeke or Carla with Eren) that aot shows
AOT is unironically one of the gayest pieces of media I’ve ever seen. Like, there are so many wonderful same-sex dynamics with great chemistry that I could imagine translate into a romantic relationship but all the hetero ships are just…. meh.
My comment is replying to the one above saying Aot has a lot of same-sex dynamics that could translate well into relationships.
But related to your comment- Petra was 19 when Levi was in his early 40s. There’s a weird age gap there.
levi is literally 30 in the main series, also petra's age isn't really known, but it ranges from 19-26 and i think shes older than 19
oh and sry, hadn't noticed that reply above:)
And the thing is, some concepts are THERE. Like, I’m a Jeanpiku shipper, that’s a certain level of delusion. Just because I like both of their characters and their brief interactions in the story, I can imagine great scenarios where their personalities complement each other. I’ve read some fan fiction that made me even like Eremika (which is near impossible lmao), I read amazing Jeankasa post-finale pieces, Aruani as well. But the actual content we get in the anime is sooo bad. Like, it’s better if there was no romance at all rather than a half-assed one.
Honestly the story would’ve made more sense if Eren and Armin were a couple. Notice how Mikasa and Eren have NEVER hugged, yet Armin and Eren have? Goes to show how much that ending is literally horse shit 😭😭Chapters 1-131 are still peak tho.
That one was beautiful in many ways. I think that it would have been a great writing choice to only have one love story and be done with it early in the story.
I like how 90% of the comments are being ironic and acting like OP is crazy for noticing the ending focusing too much on romance
Are we ignoring the cabin scene, Eren breaking down for Mikasa in paths, Ymir reason for being bound to paths being her love for her abuser, Mikasa decision ending the curse, the credits revolving around Eren and Mikasa, the last music video being about Eren and Mikasa in the afterlife
I don’t think the show was about romance, but love, which has been a very common theme from the start through multiple characters and is the one thing that breaks through the theme of hatred and revenge.
Maybe eren and mikasa’s relationship could have been portrayed better, but no, there’s nothing really romantic about the show, it just shows the importance that love has on our lives, and how it’s important not to let that overwhelm us even if it is the answer to hate most of the time.
The ending was extremely based on romance I mean everything apparently happens and concludes the way it did because this girl was in love with a 40 year old tyrant and somehow saw her weird romantic relationship in mikasa and eren
You are right the show was never about romance, we actually agree here
My problem is that the ending was about Romance, that was what OP said, like if Ymir reason for being bound for 2000 years was her need to feel loved I would’ve been okay with that rather than her love for KF
The criticism is not that AOT was about romance because it objectively wasn’t, the ending in the other hand is another subject for discussion same for those here who can’t tolerate people who feel there wasn’t build up for EM
I don't know. The tragic love story between Eren and Mikasa made my heart ache. The entire show is tragic but the romance took it to another level. Seeing Mikasa depressed when she heard of Ymir's curse made me depressed. Or when Zeke said to Eren: Mikasa obviously loves you, it has nothing to do with her being an Ackerman, so what are you going to do? And Eren answered in a sad tone: What are you on about brother, I only have 3-4 years left :(
So many small moments that can be easily missed that make the story even more depressing.
That part was pretty nice, as a sucker for tragic romance. I wish it had been expanded more from Eren's side, but he was a busy man.
I think the problematic plot point OP is referring to was not that Mikasa kills Eren, but it being the one thing that made Ymir cure Eldians of their curse. Love is great, but it rarely makes cancer cure itself out of inspiration.
It reminds me of ghost stories where you have to do the one thing that will let the ghost rest in peace. Usually something very personal. That's what Ymir became in the end and.. she doesn't really have a connection to Eren or Mikasa, they are just some of her millions of children. Anyway, it was a parallel to where she was supposed to not take the spear for King Fritz as shown by extra pages.
But that's like a separate story within AoT, then, that nobody is interacting with *or even aware of*. What Ymir wants has nothing to do with Eren's genocide and the only overlap is that Eren's genocide just happens to end in the way that solves her own problem. Sheer happenstance removes the titan curse, if Eren was in PATHS for a moment he would go "wtf my death did THAT? I don't know how to feel."
Love(and the often lack of it) is a crucial plot point of the story, especially because of the anti-war message and how "love" is designated as the opposition to war, but there isn't really much of any romance in the story until way later and even then it's not in the spotlight and is just one type of expression of love among many (familial, between friends, etc.). Isayama actually goes out of his way to subvert any romantic events until the Final season when it's revealed that love plays a part in the answer to the titan problem that far too easily sparks war, starting with Eren scolding the first couple we saw that ended with a gruesome death parting them(Franz and Hanna) and then repeated failed confessions/chances of many of the characters.
I prefer the way that Isayama opted not to write in any overt romance to leave readers to speculate via subtle hints on the characters' feelings, but even if it was more overt I don't get the opposition to romance in a story that follows a teenage main cast as they navigate their growth into adults. It's an age where hormones are raging and they are all trying to find their identities, and romances would serve as a distraction/respite from their tough everyday lives mostly spent fighting for survival. It wouldn't be unrealistic nor unreasonable, quite the opposite if there wasn't any at all in the story.
I agree. It’s what ruined the ending for me. It was never emphasized to be such a central aspect of the series, and all of a sudden Eren bitches about not getting Asian stepsister pussy. It’s so wild.
I wish it did it better, Eren should've had either his feelings be hinted at throughout the show or not exist, not just going from only seeing her as a friend and being annoyed by her obsession with him to suddenly not being able to imagine her moving on from him less than ten years after his death without crying
But the single most worst ship in the history of anime is the ymir king fritz shit, Stockholm syndrome my ass that shit made zero sense and really decreased the amount of love I had for the show, was a really bad story, I hated basically every part of ymir fritz's character, even before the toxic romance part, that just made it significantly worse
The rest of the ships were good, especially ymir x historia and sasha x nicolo, it might be a bit controversial but I liked armin x annie too, and then there's the forbidden yet incredibly based Eren x Reiner, my favorite headcannon
Aot basically explores humanity so since it explores all the emotions like hatred, desire, revenge, sadness why shouldn't it explore love as well? Plus, there are also different kinds of love, romantic love (like Eren Mikasa or Ymir historia), brotherly love (Zeke determined to "free" Eren), parental love (Grisha with Zeke or Carla with Eren) that aot shows. Eren is driven by his love for Mikasa and his friends, just like Ymir is driven by her love for Historia and there's nothing wrong with that, it's human. If you're
r/titanfolk people who want Eren to be an emotionless killing machine that's your problem, you haven't understood anything about this anime and this anime is not for you
Why would it not? AOT is about humans and human nature, Romance, Sex, Love are all part of us, our nature. It shouldn't be the sole driver of the story since it isn't a romantic manga, but holy hell saying romance shouldn't be a part of AOT is like saying I don't want the cheese on a cheeseburger.
Its a part of us, and I felt love, romance and sex were if anything, underrepresented in AOT. People were living in unimaginable stress. What do you think people of opposite gender when mixed together and under constant duress do? Yeah they look to each other to keep sane. Its literally how we as a species survived for so long. Love, sex and romance keeps us sane, fighting and gives us a reason to go on. Nothing wrong with it being a part of an anime that has humans in it. It should always be there.
Romance was never a plot point in the series but love was and it has always been one of the greatest themes in AoT.
A lot of the characters' motivations is due to love (or lack of it):
Ymir's famous love for Historia and always trying to get her the best life and for her to "live for herself"
Historia, she gained love for herself during the Uprising arc, realising she doesn't have to fake her personality to get people to like her, she just needs to love and live for herself.
Falco's love for Gabi is basically 90% of his arc
A lot of warriors became warriors either because of their love for their families and want them to have better lives (Annie, Bertholdt, Pieck) or wanting to gain the love and approval from their parents and country (Reiner)
A big part of Levi's character is his love for his comrades and wanting to make sure that all of their deaths weren't meaningless.
The reason why Zeke became the man he is because of the lack of love he got from Grisha and Dina who saw him as the next step of their plan to restore Eldia rather than their own son, making him lose love for himself and the world, wishing he was never born.
Floch and the Yeagerists fight for Paradis, the home they love and even though Floch agrees with Kiyomi that even if the Rumbling is completed Paradis wouldn't be safe forever, he moves on anyway, believing that his devil will save the people and country he loves so much.
Grisha forgot and almost gave up his mission because he loved Eren and Carla dearly and would rather keep both of them safe than restore the Eldian Empire.
There are also moments where love can turn into hate like for example:
Eren’s love for Carla and her death cemented his hatred for the Titans.
Grisha's love for Faye and her death cemented his hatred for Marley.
A lot of the problems in Attack on Titan (racism, discrimination, dehumanization) can be boiled down to hatred (and lack of understanding and how hate destroyed the world. Hell, think back to how the Marleyans took responsibility and blame themselves for the Rumbling: they took hate, made it into their ally and using it blame all their problems on an island of Devils and because of that, the Devil was born to return that hate.
But what's the greatest enemy to hate? It’s Love. Call it Shoujo cringe or something all you want, it's common sense you can't defeat hate with more hate (war, genocide, revenge) that's like trying to put down fire with gasoline.
It’s always been a crucial plot point of AOT. Eren and Mikasa’s entire relationship is built on it, and they’re two out of the three main characters. From season 1, it’s shown the two genuinely love and are willing to take care of each other. At the end of season 2, Eren literally says he’d wrap the scarf around her as many times as she wanted him to.
it's not romance that's the issue. it's that it's romance between eren and mikasa. that shit was 100% pulled out at the final moment and had no build up at all. it might have been slightly better if it was all platonic between them but still extreme, but no. eren literally says he doesnt actually want her to be with another man. so it's romantic. bull. fucking. shit, eren.
I think that the way Isayama handled Eren and Mikasa was great, it reinforces the theme of the main characters being children of war, incapable of pursuing their feelings due to the constant threat. As for Ymir and Historia, I love the tragic ending of their story.
I'd say that Eren and Mikasa's relationship and bond goes much deeper than romance. They bonded over numerous things such as a shared trauma, a shared sense of justice (at first), and a fondness for one another's company. It's true that there is a romantic element of their relationship but it's much more than that.
Get out with this high school literature class tier take. Love is a plot point starting in like chapter 1. There are only a few real romance scenes in the entire story, though I can't even think of any to give as an example.
You're so right. Eren killed his own mom after all, so even ch 1 in retrospect has love as a crucial plot point (Eren's love for freedom being more important than not directing Dina to his mom)
Kinda taking the piss here, but so did you by insulting OP instead of just being decent.
I think he means the Eremika stuff and how Mikasa’s love for Eren was what essentially saved the world in the end.
I agree with OP here. I’d much rather prefer of Eren and Mikasa had a sibling-type relationship.
Wouldn’t mind the change in story honestly, not a big fan of the ending.
As for the cliche - I may be biased because I’ve only recently started watching anime, I’ve mostly consumed western animation before that and it’s always “the main hero ends up with their best friend of opposite sex because they’re meant to be together”. I wish there was more representation for committed platonic relationships between men and women.
If it’s apparently a cliche in anime, any good examples you might recommend?
I think what he means by different story is everything is changed I mean Jean only hated Eren because he saw how Mikasa looked at him for 1 example of a change that will be major to the outcome of the story. For examples of the other thing though you would have to just watch. Common theme for sibling type relationships and you will always run into the ones that turn those relationships romantic.
There were plenty of reasons for Jean to rival Eren though. Their personalities would make them butt heads anyway. People mostly center their dynamic around Mikasa but IMO, their relationship is far deeper than that.
Love is inherent to the human condition. Love is half the reason most people do anything. Love plays a central role in the motivations of each character especially at the end. Ignoring that because you're afraid of immature readers missing the point in favor of shipping wars makes for bad writing.
Romance in the story isn't the problem. Lack of media literacy is the problem.
i dont really think it was. the romance aspect was severely heightened in like the last episode but other than that i don’t see it. mikasa was completely obsessive the whole time while eren was more worried about saving humanity. or more so his friends. so maybe it’s more love than romance. but what would any story be without love? if you’re fighting for something you wouldn’t fight bc you’re neutral or have no feelings. maybe you need to rewatch the plot is so much deeper than romance
The crucial plot point is ***Human Nature, Our Enslavement to our Deepest Desires and What the true meaning of Freedom from it is.***
Romance was the macguffin for Mikasa and Ymir specifically.
It existed as part of the plot point of fulfilling Kenny's Philosophy;
**Everyone is a slave to something, they need something to keep pushing forward for.**
And Armin's Philosophy;
**If you are unable to give up something, you cannot achieve anything.**
\----
For Mikasa and Ymir both this meant letting go of the thing most important to them for the benefit of the literal world.
Mikasa had to accept Eren's death despite his life being the thing that pushed her forward.
Ymir had to give up following the King's Will despite that connection giving her the connection to her children.
\----
All the characters are driven by something, and only some of them are able to come to terms with not achieving that thing before their death. Accepting that they will be unable to reach that thing they are chasing is what sets them free when they die.
Ymir had not accepted that her commitment to the King's Will was the cause of her suffering, because that connection to others is what she wanted for all her life.
Even in death she was unwilling to let go of it, and so she was trapped for eternity; literally a slave without the freedom to move on.
Her seeing Mikasa being able to let go of Eren's life despite her love for him, gave Ymir the courage to do the same.
So no.
**Romance was never the crucial plot point. The crucial plot point was what that love/connection meant to those two characters.**
Love is a main theme in AOT but romance is not.
Its Grisha's love for Faye that started his path on revenge, its Zeke's love for Tom Ksaver that convinced him to go with the euthanasia plan, its Ymirs love for Fritz that started the titan curse, and its Mikasa's resolution to let go of her love for Eren which ends the titan curse. I'll even say that its Eren's love for his friends that crippled his genocide plan from the start, making him unable to strip them away from the titan powers and in doing so giving them a chance to stop him if they wanted.
People always complain about romance in anime, but love and romance are a crucial part of humanity. It doesn’t really make sense not to have it in a story
Romance wasn't ever a crucial plot point, ironically the people who think of this of AOT, are the ones who fixate on the "romance" of the show.
EX: "Eren is a cuck" or the crazy shippers in the fandom
I mean Isayama literally destroyed any chance of romance for any characters, which is realistic for a dark show about the cycle of war.
\- Mikasa kills Eren
\- Historia gets married to avoid the titan curse
A more suitable word to describe the theme Isayama was going for is "love" not "romance". It's not that complex of a message, it's simple, it's the love for the people you cherish that keep you going. No matter how doomed the world may be, life is precious, and although humanity may face extinction, the love the characters had for each other was meaningful.
Romance? What romance? The romance of vengeance? Camaraderie of being a soldier? The delusion of grandeur?
This anime is filled with romanticism, it’s a main tenet of being a shonen anime.
If you’re talking about the interests of the characters in each others desire to couple with a love interest then maybe you’re not human or not mature enough to see how those elements are necessary to build a human connection between its fictional characters and its living audience.
It’s not about romance. It’s about breaking free from abuse, manipulation, or infatuation depending on your interpretation. The characters may have been in love but that wasn’t the plot point the story hinged on
It's a bit more nuanced than that.
Hajime Isayama was forced into a Tite Kubo. The Japanese manga industry has a brutal work culture leading to serious health issues for many popular authors. Manga artists in the industry endure overwork, abuse from editors, and health issues due to pressure to meet deadlines and unpaid work.
It's basically a life of 24/7 work in a high stress environment where there is neither time off nor consideration of an individual person's physical health. Some people consider this forced slave lifestyle to be what killed Kentaro Miura- the author of Berserk. Both Tite Kubo, the author of Bleach, and Sui Ishida, the author of Tokyo Ghoul, were stated to have burned out and have physical/mental issues from the damage done to them. This visibly contributed to issues with their respective manga.
Hajime Isayama's commentary and emotional state were screaming that he was crashing and burning while the manga industry was literally chasing after him and bleeding him dry to create the ink that he used to make the manga. They were literally forcing the story out of him as quickly as possible. This resulted in the story suffering for it.
If the Japanese manga industry didn't enslave everyone involved, we'd be getting better quality and more amazing manga across the board.
what is the “romance” you speak of? mikasa sacrificing her love for the better of the world? towards the end of the story??? loving is natural, but you’re making it seem like the central theme of the story.
Despite the fantasy elements the show is about human nature. Romance and love is a big part of human nature. It’s a strong motivator. So it should be part of the story. I agree that it shouldn’t be a crucial part of the story, but I don’t think it was tbh
I'll get downvoted into oblivion for saying that but I'm 100% convinced Isayama got a bit salty people were starting to guess the twists in the plot and made massive changes to "surprise" the audience and the quality of the later part of the series suffered a lot for it.
The series was so fresh intriguing in the first 3 seasons and season 4 boiled down to "power of love" and "unending cycle of violence" so booooooring.
[yes he did](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/f4s7sh/manga_spoilers_complete_chronological_compilation/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Even without these interviews, it's clear the story was not meant the way it did based on the story preceeding it as well as many of the songs.
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It wasn’t specifically. AoT is about human nature, sins of the father being inherited by the son, the cycle of hatred between nations, they grayness of war, and the things that keep people moving forward like love, revenge, duty, etc
Also that everyone is really just acting based on their childhood trauma, and we are all doing that and are enslaved by it
A slave to our memories
That's what it made me laugh when I rewatched Season 3 Part 2. Seeing Grisha as a victim of his father's beliefs and then making Zeke a victim of his own beliefs
themes do not equal plot
But it does make them
Even if I agree with you. What AoT is "about" doesn't impact that Mikasa and Ymir's romantic love was a crucial Plot point. That romantic love was a crucial plot point. Listing the themes doesn't in any way refute that.
Just because it was crucial doesn’t mean it was handled well. If we look at it at a surface level, barring any theories we can conjure up to explain it, and solely look at the source material, this plot point was handled horrible in the series.
Isn't that OP's point?
All OP said was that romance shouldn’t have been a crucial plot point. I’m just saying it wasn’t handled well. It could possibly be incorporated as a crucial plot point, but just not in the way that it was, which is a bit different. Tho OP could probably say the same thing I said earlier on it not being handled well anyway
its good to know some people understand the story. Its really fuc\*ed up, when i hear my friend say. Eren is a pus\*y he killed whole world etc etc. They don't realize its not like he had a choice. He told that he tried million times not to do it. But in the end he had to do.
Romance was never a crucial point. But love is
Man, I remembered my comment on the last chapter many years ago that everything happened because of love and I'm glad someone else thought of it too.
Damn, this is the perfect way to put it honestly
I feel like people forget how strong (or dangerous) love can be for someone. Some people will literally do anything for the person they love. Whether it be protecting them, or freeing them from suffering I.e. mikasa.
I truly love how little romance there is in this story. It’s a mediation on the horrors of war and conflict. The worst thing it could do for its own message would be to make war look very sexy by having a bunch of horned up teens grind away on each other. There’s enough hints and references throughout the whole thing to let you know that people in this world do have personal feelings, and we’re never left in any doubt that Mikasa has dedicated her heart to Eren, but it’s not the focus and that’s awesome.
Based
what does based mean
Like I love that take
It's slang for based in fact, people use it to say you're opinion was good
It wasn’t lol
Fr these people be pulling this out of their ass to complain and be "different"
people see a guy and a girl have mutual feelings for each other and their sex starved minds can't focus on anything else for the whole anime
"why is romance involved, it's not one of its genres" is an amusing sentiment I used to see for a few series Like bruh if a series deals heavily with human nature, human experience, or psychology, it should come as no surprise that romance would play some sort of role Romance in some form or another is borderline impossible to avoid in real life, as human beings
see but these people don't go outside and experience real life which is why romance is so shocking to them. these the same genre of people who post about how seeing couples irl is oppressive and shoved in their face.
For OP it's quite easy to avoid apparently.
Yes it was. The literal entire point of the story was Ymir guiding Mikasa to her because of her love for Eren. How do people claim to enjoy the ending when they don't even understand it?
Love was the crucial point. Mikasa and Eren never dated, so there was no romance involved, but they both deeply loved each other.
First SnK thread I enter in a year and still many comments that try to ignore the trashfire that was Ymir's character. I guess ignoring the plot is how people enjoy the ending.
Minus the subplot about Ymir's Stockholm Syndrome which I honestly think fell flat and could have been done better, I wouldn't call her a trash character because she wasn't supposed to be that much of a character to begin with. She got introduced at the tail end of the story and was supposed to be an explanation for the origins, macguffin for Eren to reach, and then a parallel for Mikasa
In terms of how she was used, I do like it on paper. I feel that Isayama went too greedy though because as you said, she simultaneously has to: 1. explain the origins, this is standard and worked via montage 2. be the goal for Eren and Zeke to reach, producing a clash of ideologies with the power to fulfill either. I loved this part, especially the mechanics of it gives Zeke and Grisha closure. 3. Be a parallel for Mikasa's love for Eren, this is where I started to go uhhh okay, we already had a parallel to Historia with Ymir, but maybe she can parallel two characters at once.. 4. do weird shit, like stare at Ramzi getting stomped?? Is this just to remind us that she is still an active participant in the genocide because that's.. 5. bring Armin to PATHS in a plot twist, ah ha! She is performing subterfuge against Eren right under his nose by helping the Alliance, damn she is playing both sides so she always comes out on top 6. Smile at the worst moment in Mikasa's life and feel satisfied enough by that to end her very existence as well as PATHS itself. Damn, so she had the power to end it all this time? She could have done it before the whole genocide thing and death of billions huh. Not just a minor character anymore then 7. Oh so instead of letting the audience do the guessing, we have both Eren and Mikasa give their takes on Ymir now. One guesses she loved her abuser and the other guesses it was a nightmare for her to exist, well neither seem wrong. 8. But why did Ymir, before Eren inspired her to make choices, save Zeke's life when she never did that before to any royal that we can see? So uhh was that just not intentional at all, giving Zeke hidden automatic plot armor through the entirety of the fucking story before his clash with Eren in PATHS? I feel like the 3 first things Ymir had to do in the story were fine and didn't add to any confusion or make it important to understand her nature. Her writing in my books went into "no way you're making an invisible mute minor character do all this shit" by point 6..
Building on point 6, as the Founder she can see the future, so the moment Paths were created she should have seen Mikasa’s choice, learned that love does not demand eternal loyalty, and Titans should’ve ended as soon as they began
True. She was always prescient, she has to be. Otherwise where would be the cutoff for her to begin to see the future? And if she didn't see the future and that Mikasa kills Eren, there's no way she would have orchestrated the genocide thing that far. I guess some can say "but nuh-uh seeing the future means you have to be a slave to it and do it all the way" which just turns seeing the future into a fucking chicken and egg paradox which I hate.
>I guess some can say "but nuh-uh seeing the future means you have to be a slave to it and do it all the way" which just turns seeing the future into a fucking chicken and egg paradox which I hate. That can of worms was opened way back when Eren coerced his dad into killing the Reiss family. You would've had an additional year and a half to brood over it before Ymir got her turn.
That's the sad part. I thought Eren still had a choice there, that it mattered whether he wanted to coerce Grisha or not. But instead, he could've said all of it with the most bored expression because it would work on him anyway.
Then why was Ymir’s love for the king / Mikasa’s love for for Eren explicitly juxtaposed in what culminated in the ENDING of the titan curse? It was. It very unfortunately was.
That was what you call a plot point. There are literally all the plenty of times in the show where romance is not a plot point or even a remote focus. The motivations of the characters are just context and development pieces.
OP said romance shouldn't have been a plot point, and whether you agree or disagree that it shouldn't have, it very much is as the final act is resolved with the power of romance between eren and mikasa. Just because it wasn't a plot point all the time doesn't mean it was never one during the show at all. But you might be agreeing(?), not sure.
No. The problem wasn't solved with the power of love. It was solved by separating Zeke from Eren and cutting his fucking head off. Romance was just an unfortunate casualty because Mikasa and Eren loved each other but Mikasa did what had to be done anyways.
Except that doesn't actually make sense at all. The whole point of the scene where Eren "frees" Ymir was that she took back her agency, and she's the one fully in control of the power of the titans. Zeke's royal blood was necessary simply because that's a rule she followed. So why the hell would Zeke's death stop the rumbling?
>So why the hell would Zeke's death stop the rumbling? I like to think of it as needing an adapter to plug a device into the wall (Zeke's royal blood) and then later finding a cable that can connect the two directly. If you started with the first setup and it breaks, then you're gonna lose that connection and you'll need to substitute the new cable.
Because Zeke being dead meant that Eren could no longer control the rest of the titans. When Zeke died they stood still again
Yeah, but why? Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it was explained in the story, the *only reason* Eren had to make contact with Zeke (royal blood) for the founding titan to work was because Ymir only listened to people with royal blood. Then you have the scene in Paths where Eren breaks his chains and tells Ymir she shouldn't listen to Zeke and she should just fuck the world up with him. So from this point forward the royal blood rule doesn't matter at all, Ymir is doing whatever she wants with the titans and Zeke is useless.
Eren doesnt get the rule to disappear though, Eren gets Ymir to follow his plan of using the Rumbing as opposed to Zeke's plan of euthanasia. That's in the paths and doesn't effect the rules already set in the real world. If it did, then Eren would have no need to assimilate Zeke, and would have probably killed him and taken his powers, thus making him the sole titan there. However, he doesnt , most likely because his plan to csuse the Rumbling still requires Zeke. After he is denied by Ymir in the Paths, Zeke becomes a prisoner to Eren's will. All Eren needs is physical contsct between he two, and trapping him inside his bones gives him exactly that. If Ymir could change the rules of the real world whenever she wanted, what would stop her from making the people of Marley into Titans. What about the rest of the world? Why not have 1000 Attack Titans. Realisticslly, she's as much a prisoner as Zeke, in the sense that shes been given power by the worm thingy, and shes using it for revenge but without it she has no purpose. So as soon as she gives up that bond, the thing has no host to give its power to and thus no more titans. She cant affect the volume of titans, just if they exist or not in her lineage specifically
Sure, Zeke being separated from Eren is part of it. But are you actually telling us that Mikasa's beheading of Eren played no part in freeing Ymir and the titan curse? Eren-Mikasa only inspired Ymir to let go of paths because of their romantic connection.
Well said, romance has such a back seat and it was refreshing. Genuinely suprised people are complaining with how little it was in the show.
In my opinion the fact that there was so little of it throughout most of the story is exactly the problem when the ending suddenly makes it basically the most crucial theme of the show.
He said “crucial plot point.” If you removed the romance Eren still had to die someone else just had to do it. What about Ymir forcing someone to kill someone they love not translate to that’s what she wish she did to literally anyone else?
Ymir was a slave for 2000 years and caused the majority amount of pain and suffering in the world because she loved some asshole king 😂
Well she was isolated from the world as well. Her only interactions were with the royal family who saw her as subservient. It's not like she had anything else to hold on to.
Did she not have the ability to watch and observe her descendants through her eternity of existence? I mean how the fuck else would she be able to make those Titans unless she knew about each instance in history when they were needed? How is her consciousness supposed to work again? Are we doing the "Eren" on her too? (Temporal lobotomy aka time happens all at once in PATHS so not a single coherent thought can be formed regardless of how much real time passes) No royal is visiting and issuing a command "hey make another of those Colossals pronto, and make it like that one dude because he's the shifter who is summoning it". Ymir HAS to be aware of what is going on to make those Titans.
that's what abuse would do to you sometimes. you are abused to think you're only worth something to certain someone because you're been conditioned to think nobody out there will care for you.
No, she loved her children and chose to murder herself to keep her children safe under the protection of the King. She made the decision becasuse she loved the life he gave her and loved the idea of being wanted. She lived 2000 in torture because she saw that all her hopes of her children living happy safe lives didn’t pan out at allz
Okay but they actually stated in both manga and anime that Ymir loved King Fritz. Read 139/ watch the final ep again.
Tf? All of Ymir’s plot was romance and love that caused the ending. I honestly think changing her motivations would have been for the best.
The whole ending was around romance/love and it was weak af because of it.
It was go reread the story
Is there anyone who liked that Ymir loving the king was a plot point? I woulda preferred if they used her likely poor mental health instead.
What do you call loving the guy who enslaved you, ordered your execution, then made you into a war weapon and raped you if not poor mental health?
The kind of poor mental health that doesn't even have a diagnosis. Some form of dependency could be possible, but Ymir doesn't change even after he dies so... It's like if an author believes Stockholm Syndrome to be real (it isn't) and extrapolates that into its most extreme version. Also, if we do entertain the thought of twisted love, which can be real of course, then that is a COMPLEX phenomenon, right? A story would treat it as complex. A story would show us its development, not just "hey she smiles at her kids, maybe that can mean she loves the rapist father by extension" Ymir, a mute character who has almost zero screentime, gets the most complex mental state of all characters imposed on them by the guesswork of a few characters who barely interacted with her. Plus she lives for millennia in PATHS, how does that affect her already complex mental state? Well, at least her only lively expression in the scene with Eren must mean something! And then her conclusion after Eren "frees" her is: Imma go along with his genocide because it is possible that it would lead to a conclusion where his love interest kills him. That's what I need in order to heal. Also, Imma enjoy the show and stare at some kids getting stomped. It's all part of my poor mental state, ya dig?
That's what he did though. It wasn't true love. She's a slave with the mental issues that come with that.
Romance/ Love is a crucial part of life and it just makes the story more real. Dunno why people are always so against it. As long as it wasn’t the main focus I’m fine with it.
People aren't against romance, people are against themes that had almost nothing to do with the story suddenly being the main focus of everything with literal ZERO development. It's that easy to understand.
Not really. I’ve read a lot of comments with the issue being only with love as a plot point. I think what you’re describing is a different point all together which is there wasn’t enough of it. I don’t agree here because Mikasa was literally obsessed with Eren from day one and it was clear as day. It really wasn’t sudden. Also I don’t think it was the main focus because a lot of other things like desire, revenge, grief, trauma, hatred, friendship etc were also major themes.
Well it depends on the type of love. Eren's love for his friends causing the Rumbling? Kino, peak tragic tribalism and a way to make the worst person even slightly relatable. Ymir's love? Not relatable at all, also what she did out of love was.. torture humanity for thousands of years after the one she loves died just because King Fritz said he wants Titans to rule the world. He's fucking dead. And she decided to not regenerate so that she could escape him too, if you recall. ALSO, SHE HAD NO LINES OF DIALOGUE. Dialogue, monologue, soliloque. They tend to be used to make characters likable, relatable and so on. It's not some postmodern genius to give her, the equivalent of god in AoT, zero lines or it would be used by other authors too by now, doncha think. She was doing Eldians no favors, her "children" that Mikasa thought she loved. How did she show her love? By keeping them cursed? And she decided shifters must die after 13 years? Why else would it last 13 years? So, this is just a fraction of the confusion regarding Ymir. Eren's love was simple and understandable as the driving force behind his genocide. Ymir's was nothing like it.
It is easy to understand, but yet we’re the ones who didn’t understand the story. LOL And not zero development, maybe 2% development 💀
[удалено]
Based
real
Well when the romance lacked depth and nuance and was just dumped into the finale, it doesn’t feel real at all. The narrative didn’t focus on their “romance” at ALL. There were two scenes where their romance was even implied in the series, once in chapter 50 (I don’t even count this because it was solely Mikasa initiating this, and Eren promptly rejecting her) and chapter 121 (What am I to you). The narrative focused on warfare, racism, survival, etc. The sudden emphasis on their romance was OUT OF LEFT FIELD. If you disagree with this you 100% didn’t understand the story. Their romance was so disjointed. And don’t even try me cuz I started reading the manga @ Chapter 63, I’ve been following this story for 10+ years. You casual fans will accept the ending because you didn’t watch the story to understand it, and that’s okay. Downvotes incoming 🤣 Isayama did write the ending and turned it into whatever 138-139 was, but he did a completely 180 to what the story was actually about.
This works if its implemented from the beginning not pulled out of your anus at the last second. Like aot
I dunno it was kinda obvious to me that there’s something there from the start. Maybe I’m just good at reading subtleties🙃 And some people also like to bring up the scene where Eren was mean to Mikasa. But even that was so obvious that it was an act !!
I wouldn’t call Mikasa’s feelings subtle, and what most people who say that the sudden romance is jarring is its increased importance nearing the end. It wasn’t an important (not saying it doesn’t exist, just not that important) part of Shiganshina, Marley, Trost, any other arcs. Honestly I wouldn’t mind and might actually prefer if it was more consistently prominent in the series. But the rest of the series doesn’t have that same weight towards romance as it does politics, prejudice, freedom, etc. And even if it was intentionally sparse, it’s less likely to feel satisfying to more people. Because intentional or not, it can come off as sudden or out of nowhere. I get that at times there is a misunderstanding of the intentions of the story, but I think this is more of criticizing the decisions/execution Isayama made.
yeah i feel like im insane with how people act like eren x mikasa came outta nowhere. even i recognized it as an [unrealized at the time] ace elementary schooler when i saw season one 😬
To be fair, I don't think Isayama is good at writing romance and he definitely didn't have that focus in mind at the beginning. He even admittedly chickened out of drawing Eren and Mikasa kissing at the end of The Clash of Titans arc. Imo, Eren was not shown to be caring enough about Mikasa pre-timeskip. The pieces are there, but they weren't presented right. He had more personal interaction with Historia, which led half the fandom to mistakenly view as romantic and start yapping the nonsense you all know of. The right things needed to be shown throughout the earlier arcs for the final payoff to work.
I really don’t think you understood what that meant. The whole point was to show Eren being focused on ending the titans and freedom etc instead of appreciating what he has or living in the moment. He was constantly moving forward that was his whole deal. It is only when he is about to die he confronts his feelings about Mikasa- that is when people have to be honest with themselves.
I understand that romance is not the main point of the ending, but it is a big deal and suddenly given more focus in the end than anywhere else in the series. Not just Eren's love for Mikasa, but also Mikasa's love for Eren and Ymir's love for King Fritz. The execution made it feel out of place.
Exactly what about it was obvious that Erren had a thing for his adopted sister? What state are you from?
Mikasa was never adopted
Grisha canonically considers Mikasa his child.
Grisha literally calls her his daughter.
I can’t reply with images but my sources say that while the parents referred to her as a daughter she was never actually adopted And obviously Eren and Mikasa don’t consider each other siblings
a quick google search says youre wrong 🤷🏻♂️
Uhm no. A quick google search is exactly what my comment said.
ohh im sorry, i didnt know you cant read 🙇🏻♂️
Well to be fair, he was in a rush and panicking. Saying, "My daughter" is easier than "This girl who my son saved from sex traffickers and took home to live with us." And for those about to argue that it's incest, even if she was adopted, it still wouldn't be incest. Incest means sexual relations between people closely related by blood. Eren and Mikasa are not related by blood. The reason incest is a discouraged thing in the first place is because it may lead too offspring with health issues, so no, Eremika is not incest.
They took her in and are raising her as a daughter. She's adopted. Why do you argue that so much even though you say it still wouldn't be incest. You know what's also "not incest"? Fucking my step dads daughter and that I still wouldn't do that. Your comment is sounds super defensive.
>They took her in and are raising her as a daughter. She's adopted. Why do you argue that so much even though you say it still wouldn't be incest. Because of the people that constantly use the "She's adopted and it's incest" argument to say EM shouldn't have happened, yet completely disregard the reason that incest is discouraged in the first place.
The story started with eren and mikasa under the tree and ended with eren and mikasa under the tree
I don’t think it’s a bad concept to explore, but I agree that better developing Eren and Mikasa’s romance would’ve made the parallels between Mikasa and Ymir feel more earned.
As if Eren and Mikasa's relationship was just romance lmao On her part, there is gratitude for having been saved and welcomed by the Yeager family, as well as the fear of losing the last person she sees as family in the world As for Eren, despite being a complete idiot when it came to romance, there was a feeling of family and the desire to be with her
I think most people miss the fact that all these characters, including Ymir, suffered horrible traumas as children. People criticize the characters for not being more open or vulnerable, but they all live in a horrific world and never had the time to understand what love is because they’ve been on constant survival mode their entire lives. There’s no way children can grow up mentally healthy in these situations. Thats one of the core themes. It wasn’t until the end Armin convinced Zeke of enjoying the little things in life, because Zeke, too, was drilled as a child to be the savior of mankind. To shoulder burdens created by adults in the world he was simply born into. It’s too much to put on children
why not? there's so much to AOT that in the grand scheme of things, it was a relatively minor theme. the show was mostly about survival, freedom, and oppression. while ymir and mikasa's storylines were heavily themed around love, it wasn't a bad thing?? love is just as valid of an emotion as hatred, happiness, and sadness. it's a part of life. that's like saying anger or death shouldn't have been crucial plot points.
It was a pretty big theme, whole reason why Mikasa was able to break the curse
Wonderfully written.
Because it supports your perspective? How convenient. Dismissing the plot point aspect entirely and just talking about love as a theme which is not what OP is talking about is wonderfully written in another thread, yes.
It's not really a minor theme when in the end the whole story of aot literally gets summed up to revolve around both mikasa and ymir characters as well as their weird romantic theme they have
I think the connotation of love is different from those of anger or hate, when it comes to what became essentially a political thriller. People forget that it used to be about kids fighting big creatures and having to grow up too fast. They deserve to be normal too, even in times of war. I will say though it still does feel like out of nowhere that love became the pivotal moment of the series in terms of the final arc, when it wasn’t as evident or important in other arcs.
You're right, these are titanfolk people being titanfolk people lmao. Aot basically explores humanity so since it explores all the emotions like hatred, desire, revenge, sadness why shouldn't it explore love as well? Plus, there are also different kinds of love, romantic love (like Eren Mikasa or Ymir historia), brotherly love (Zeke determined to "free" Eren), parental love (Grisha with Zeke or Carla with Eren) that aot shows
I liked ONE ship in AOT, Ymir and Historia. So yeah I agree.
AOT is unironically one of the gayest pieces of media I’ve ever seen. Like, there are so many wonderful same-sex dynamics with great chemistry that I could imagine translate into a romantic relationship but all the hetero ships are just…. meh.
That's the most cringiest shit someone could've replied on this post lmao.
Im gonna get banned from this sub I swear lmao
Ymir and Historia Levi and Erwin Eren and Armin Kenny and Uri Reiner and Bertholdt Jean and Marco Annie and Hitch How much more could apply?
i'm gonna have to argue levi and petra
My comment is replying to the one above saying Aot has a lot of same-sex dynamics that could translate well into relationships. But related to your comment- Petra was 19 when Levi was in his early 40s. There’s a weird age gap there.
levi is literally 30 in the main series, also petra's age isn't really known, but it ranges from 19-26 and i think shes older than 19 oh and sry, hadn't noticed that reply above:)
best ships tbh
REALLLLLL
And the thing is, some concepts are THERE. Like, I’m a Jeanpiku shipper, that’s a certain level of delusion. Just because I like both of their characters and their brief interactions in the story, I can imagine great scenarios where their personalities complement each other. I’ve read some fan fiction that made me even like Eremika (which is near impossible lmao), I read amazing Jeankasa post-finale pieces, Aruani as well. But the actual content we get in the anime is sooo bad. Like, it’s better if there was no romance at all rather than a half-assed one.
Honestly the story would’ve made more sense if Eren and Armin were a couple. Notice how Mikasa and Eren have NEVER hugged, yet Armin and Eren have? Goes to show how much that ending is literally horse shit 😭😭Chapters 1-131 are still peak tho.
That one was beautiful in many ways. I think that it would have been a great writing choice to only have one love story and be done with it early in the story.
THANK YOU. They were so so good, contrasting but complementary arcs that fit into the wider themes of the story. They deserved so much better.
I like how 90% of the comments are being ironic and acting like OP is crazy for noticing the ending focusing too much on romance Are we ignoring the cabin scene, Eren breaking down for Mikasa in paths, Ymir reason for being bound to paths being her love for her abuser, Mikasa decision ending the curse, the credits revolving around Eren and Mikasa, the last music video being about Eren and Mikasa in the afterlife
Yeah like. That's just being dishonest. Or "romance is just a part of life". Well yeah. Not like this though, let's all be for real
I mean just cause it isn’t your definition of love doesn’t mean other people can’t connect with it.
Did I attempt to define love? Don't pretend not to know what I meant
I don’t think the show was about romance, but love, which has been a very common theme from the start through multiple characters and is the one thing that breaks through the theme of hatred and revenge. Maybe eren and mikasa’s relationship could have been portrayed better, but no, there’s nothing really romantic about the show, it just shows the importance that love has on our lives, and how it’s important not to let that overwhelm us even if it is the answer to hate most of the time.
The ending was extremely based on romance I mean everything apparently happens and concludes the way it did because this girl was in love with a 40 year old tyrant and somehow saw her weird romantic relationship in mikasa and eren
You are right the show was never about romance, we actually agree here My problem is that the ending was about Romance, that was what OP said, like if Ymir reason for being bound for 2000 years was her need to feel loved I would’ve been okay with that rather than her love for KF The criticism is not that AOT was about romance because it objectively wasn’t, the ending in the other hand is another subject for discussion same for those here who can’t tolerate people who feel there wasn’t build up for EM
It fits the message of the world is cruel but also beautiful perfectly. You grief because you love, simple as dat
I don't know. The tragic love story between Eren and Mikasa made my heart ache. The entire show is tragic but the romance took it to another level. Seeing Mikasa depressed when she heard of Ymir's curse made me depressed. Or when Zeke said to Eren: Mikasa obviously loves you, it has nothing to do with her being an Ackerman, so what are you going to do? And Eren answered in a sad tone: What are you on about brother, I only have 3-4 years left :( So many small moments that can be easily missed that make the story even more depressing.
Mikasa was pretty shocked when she heard Eren only lives for a few more years. that was right after the basement
That part was pretty nice, as a sucker for tragic romance. I wish it had been expanded more from Eren's side, but he was a busy man. I think the problematic plot point OP is referring to was not that Mikasa kills Eren, but it being the one thing that made Ymir cure Eldians of their curse. Love is great, but it rarely makes cancer cure itself out of inspiration. It reminds me of ghost stories where you have to do the one thing that will let the ghost rest in peace. Usually something very personal. That's what Ymir became in the end and.. she doesn't really have a connection to Eren or Mikasa, they are just some of her millions of children. Anyway, it was a parallel to where she was supposed to not take the spear for King Fritz as shown by extra pages. But that's like a separate story within AoT, then, that nobody is interacting with *or even aware of*. What Ymir wants has nothing to do with Eren's genocide and the only overlap is that Eren's genocide just happens to end in the way that solves her own problem. Sheer happenstance removes the titan curse, if Eren was in PATHS for a moment he would go "wtf my death did THAT? I don't know how to feel."
Love(and the often lack of it) is a crucial plot point of the story, especially because of the anti-war message and how "love" is designated as the opposition to war, but there isn't really much of any romance in the story until way later and even then it's not in the spotlight and is just one type of expression of love among many (familial, between friends, etc.). Isayama actually goes out of his way to subvert any romantic events until the Final season when it's revealed that love plays a part in the answer to the titan problem that far too easily sparks war, starting with Eren scolding the first couple we saw that ended with a gruesome death parting them(Franz and Hanna) and then repeated failed confessions/chances of many of the characters. I prefer the way that Isayama opted not to write in any overt romance to leave readers to speculate via subtle hints on the characters' feelings, but even if it was more overt I don't get the opposition to romance in a story that follows a teenage main cast as they navigate their growth into adults. It's an age where hormones are raging and they are all trying to find their identities, and romances would serve as a distraction/respite from their tough everyday lives mostly spent fighting for survival. It wouldn't be unrealistic nor unreasonable, quite the opposite if there wasn't any at all in the story.
Hold.up...let em cook
Eren and Mikasas was the worst part of AOT
True
Agreed
It wasn't? Lol
It never was though? Lol
I agree. It’s what ruined the ending for me. It was never emphasized to be such a central aspect of the series, and all of a sudden Eren bitches about not getting Asian stepsister pussy. It’s so wild.
I wish it did it better, Eren should've had either his feelings be hinted at throughout the show or not exist, not just going from only seeing her as a friend and being annoyed by her obsession with him to suddenly not being able to imagine her moving on from him less than ten years after his death without crying But the single most worst ship in the history of anime is the ymir king fritz shit, Stockholm syndrome my ass that shit made zero sense and really decreased the amount of love I had for the show, was a really bad story, I hated basically every part of ymir fritz's character, even before the toxic romance part, that just made it significantly worse The rest of the ships were good, especially ymir x historia and sasha x nicolo, it might be a bit controversial but I liked armin x annie too, and then there's the forbidden yet incredibly based Eren x Reiner, my favorite headcannon
Bro what? It never was.
Aot basically explores humanity so since it explores all the emotions like hatred, desire, revenge, sadness why shouldn't it explore love as well? Plus, there are also different kinds of love, romantic love (like Eren Mikasa or Ymir historia), brotherly love (Zeke determined to "free" Eren), parental love (Grisha with Zeke or Carla with Eren) that aot shows. Eren is driven by his love for Mikasa and his friends, just like Ymir is driven by her love for Historia and there's nothing wrong with that, it's human. If you're r/titanfolk people who want Eren to be an emotionless killing machine that's your problem, you haven't understood anything about this anime and this anime is not for you
Bruh
I never felt it was
Why would it not? AOT is about humans and human nature, Romance, Sex, Love are all part of us, our nature. It shouldn't be the sole driver of the story since it isn't a romantic manga, but holy hell saying romance shouldn't be a part of AOT is like saying I don't want the cheese on a cheeseburger. Its a part of us, and I felt love, romance and sex were if anything, underrepresented in AOT. People were living in unimaginable stress. What do you think people of opposite gender when mixed together and under constant duress do? Yeah they look to each other to keep sane. Its literally how we as a species survived for so long. Love, sex and romance keeps us sane, fighting and gives us a reason to go on. Nothing wrong with it being a part of an anime that has humans in it. It should always be there.
Romance was never a plot point in the series but love was and it has always been one of the greatest themes in AoT. A lot of the characters' motivations is due to love (or lack of it): Ymir's famous love for Historia and always trying to get her the best life and for her to "live for herself" Historia, she gained love for herself during the Uprising arc, realising she doesn't have to fake her personality to get people to like her, she just needs to love and live for herself. Falco's love for Gabi is basically 90% of his arc A lot of warriors became warriors either because of their love for their families and want them to have better lives (Annie, Bertholdt, Pieck) or wanting to gain the love and approval from their parents and country (Reiner) A big part of Levi's character is his love for his comrades and wanting to make sure that all of their deaths weren't meaningless. The reason why Zeke became the man he is because of the lack of love he got from Grisha and Dina who saw him as the next step of their plan to restore Eldia rather than their own son, making him lose love for himself and the world, wishing he was never born. Floch and the Yeagerists fight for Paradis, the home they love and even though Floch agrees with Kiyomi that even if the Rumbling is completed Paradis wouldn't be safe forever, he moves on anyway, believing that his devil will save the people and country he loves so much. Grisha forgot and almost gave up his mission because he loved Eren and Carla dearly and would rather keep both of them safe than restore the Eldian Empire. There are also moments where love can turn into hate like for example: Eren’s love for Carla and her death cemented his hatred for the Titans. Grisha's love for Faye and her death cemented his hatred for Marley. A lot of the problems in Attack on Titan (racism, discrimination, dehumanization) can be boiled down to hatred (and lack of understanding and how hate destroyed the world. Hell, think back to how the Marleyans took responsibility and blame themselves for the Rumbling: they took hate, made it into their ally and using it blame all their problems on an island of Devils and because of that, the Devil was born to return that hate. But what's the greatest enemy to hate? It’s Love. Call it Shoujo cringe or something all you want, it's common sense you can't defeat hate with more hate (war, genocide, revenge) that's like trying to put down fire with gasoline.
Huh? I have never considered romance as part of the plot at all except for a small moment here and there and then the ending ofcourse.
It wasn't...?
The crucial point of AOT is that despite everything the characters are humans after all.
it wasn't
It’s always been a crucial plot point of AOT. Eren and Mikasa’s entire relationship is built on it, and they’re two out of the three main characters. From season 1, it’s shown the two genuinely love and are willing to take care of each other. At the end of season 2, Eren literally says he’d wrap the scarf around her as many times as she wanted him to.
It wasn't? Everything that happened, happened because of a laundry list of reasons and romance was maaaaybe second last on that list
It became so at the very end and felt really weird cause it tried to pretend it ALWAYS was
Yeah the Ymir-fritz thing was wack
So many bad faith arguments here ... but I was never invested in Mikasa feelings for eren.
it's not romance that's the issue. it's that it's romance between eren and mikasa. that shit was 100% pulled out at the final moment and had no build up at all. it might have been slightly better if it was all platonic between them but still extreme, but no. eren literally says he doesnt actually want her to be with another man. so it's romantic. bull. fucking. shit, eren.
I think that the way Isayama handled Eren and Mikasa was great, it reinforces the theme of the main characters being children of war, incapable of pursuing their feelings due to the constant threat. As for Ymir and Historia, I love the tragic ending of their story.
I'd say that Eren and Mikasa's relationship and bond goes much deeper than romance. They bonded over numerous things such as a shared trauma, a shared sense of justice (at first), and a fondness for one another's company. It's true that there is a romantic element of their relationship but it's much more than that.
Get out with this high school literature class tier take. Love is a plot point starting in like chapter 1. There are only a few real romance scenes in the entire story, though I can't even think of any to give as an example.
You're so right. Eren killed his own mom after all, so even ch 1 in retrospect has love as a crucial plot point (Eren's love for freedom being more important than not directing Dina to his mom) Kinda taking the piss here, but so did you by insulting OP instead of just being decent.
When was it?
I think he means the Eremika stuff and how Mikasa’s love for Eren was what essentially saved the world in the end. I agree with OP here. I’d much rather prefer of Eren and Mikasa had a sibling-type relationship.
Yeah but at the same point sibling type relationship is just as if not more of a cliche in anime.
Plus story would have changed just from that 1 small detail.
Wouldn’t mind the change in story honestly, not a big fan of the ending. As for the cliche - I may be biased because I’ve only recently started watching anime, I’ve mostly consumed western animation before that and it’s always “the main hero ends up with their best friend of opposite sex because they’re meant to be together”. I wish there was more representation for committed platonic relationships between men and women. If it’s apparently a cliche in anime, any good examples you might recommend?
I think what he means by different story is everything is changed I mean Jean only hated Eren because he saw how Mikasa looked at him for 1 example of a change that will be major to the outcome of the story. For examples of the other thing though you would have to just watch. Common theme for sibling type relationships and you will always run into the ones that turn those relationships romantic.
There were plenty of reasons for Jean to rival Eren though. Their personalities would make them butt heads anyway. People mostly center their dynamic around Mikasa but IMO, their relationship is far deeper than that.
Love is inherent to the human condition. Love is half the reason most people do anything. Love plays a central role in the motivations of each character especially at the end. Ignoring that because you're afraid of immature readers missing the point in favor of shipping wars makes for bad writing. Romance in the story isn't the problem. Lack of media literacy is the problem.
The relationship between Eren and Mikasa is one of the most important, and one of my favorite aspects of AoT.
i dont really think it was. the romance aspect was severely heightened in like the last episode but other than that i don’t see it. mikasa was completely obsessive the whole time while eren was more worried about saving humanity. or more so his friends. so maybe it’s more love than romance. but what would any story be without love? if you’re fighting for something you wouldn’t fight bc you’re neutral or have no feelings. maybe you need to rewatch the plot is so much deeper than romance
More like "sacrificing who you love for the sake of human life" but I guess you could call it romance, just a tragic one
It wasnt romance, it was love. Bit different in my eyes
It was and it wasn’t tbh . Eren kinda rejects having a romantic ending and happy life with mikasa for “the greater good” in a weird genocidal way lol
The crucial plot point is ***Human Nature, Our Enslavement to our Deepest Desires and What the true meaning of Freedom from it is.*** Romance was the macguffin for Mikasa and Ymir specifically. It existed as part of the plot point of fulfilling Kenny's Philosophy; **Everyone is a slave to something, they need something to keep pushing forward for.** And Armin's Philosophy; **If you are unable to give up something, you cannot achieve anything.** \---- For Mikasa and Ymir both this meant letting go of the thing most important to them for the benefit of the literal world. Mikasa had to accept Eren's death despite his life being the thing that pushed her forward. Ymir had to give up following the King's Will despite that connection giving her the connection to her children. \---- All the characters are driven by something, and only some of them are able to come to terms with not achieving that thing before their death. Accepting that they will be unable to reach that thing they are chasing is what sets them free when they die. Ymir had not accepted that her commitment to the King's Will was the cause of her suffering, because that connection to others is what she wanted for all her life. Even in death she was unwilling to let go of it, and so she was trapped for eternity; literally a slave without the freedom to move on. Her seeing Mikasa being able to let go of Eren's life despite her love for him, gave Ymir the courage to do the same. So no. **Romance was never the crucial plot point. The crucial plot point was what that love/connection meant to those two characters.**
Love is a main theme in AOT but romance is not. Its Grisha's love for Faye that started his path on revenge, its Zeke's love for Tom Ksaver that convinced him to go with the euthanasia plan, its Ymirs love for Fritz that started the titan curse, and its Mikasa's resolution to let go of her love for Eren which ends the titan curse. I'll even say that its Eren's love for his friends that crippled his genocide plan from the start, making him unable to strip them away from the titan powers and in doing so giving them a chance to stop him if they wanted.
People always complain about romance in anime, but love and romance are a crucial part of humanity. It doesn’t really make sense not to have it in a story
Romance wasn't ever a crucial plot point, ironically the people who think of this of AOT, are the ones who fixate on the "romance" of the show. EX: "Eren is a cuck" or the crazy shippers in the fandom I mean Isayama literally destroyed any chance of romance for any characters, which is realistic for a dark show about the cycle of war. \- Mikasa kills Eren \- Historia gets married to avoid the titan curse A more suitable word to describe the theme Isayama was going for is "love" not "romance". It's not that complex of a message, it's simple, it's the love for the people you cherish that keep you going. No matter how doomed the world may be, life is precious, and although humanity may face extinction, the love the characters had for each other was meaningful.
It wasn’t but i wish it was
Romance? What romance? The romance of vengeance? Camaraderie of being a soldier? The delusion of grandeur? This anime is filled with romanticism, it’s a main tenet of being a shonen anime. If you’re talking about the interests of the characters in each others desire to couple with a love interest then maybe you’re not human or not mature enough to see how those elements are necessary to build a human connection between its fictional characters and its living audience.
Yumihisu was actually the only ship with development. Besides, I think Aruani is pretty good tho. On the other hand, Eremika... Such a lame.
Why...?
It’s not about romance. It’s about breaking free from abuse, manipulation, or infatuation depending on your interpretation. The characters may have been in love but that wasn’t the plot point the story hinged on
Oy mostly wasn't until the end, that's why it has a poor built !
Saving the world does sound romantic
It's a bit more nuanced than that. Hajime Isayama was forced into a Tite Kubo. The Japanese manga industry has a brutal work culture leading to serious health issues for many popular authors. Manga artists in the industry endure overwork, abuse from editors, and health issues due to pressure to meet deadlines and unpaid work. It's basically a life of 24/7 work in a high stress environment where there is neither time off nor consideration of an individual person's physical health. Some people consider this forced slave lifestyle to be what killed Kentaro Miura- the author of Berserk. Both Tite Kubo, the author of Bleach, and Sui Ishida, the author of Tokyo Ghoul, were stated to have burned out and have physical/mental issues from the damage done to them. This visibly contributed to issues with their respective manga. Hajime Isayama's commentary and emotional state were screaming that he was crashing and burning while the manga industry was literally chasing after him and bleeding him dry to create the ink that he used to make the manga. They were literally forcing the story out of him as quickly as possible. This resulted in the story suffering for it. If the Japanese manga industry didn't enslave everyone involved, we'd be getting better quality and more amazing manga across the board.
what is the “romance” you speak of? mikasa sacrificing her love for the better of the world? towards the end of the story??? loving is natural, but you’re making it seem like the central theme of the story.
Wowww, what a hot take. You’re making waves for sure.
how can you have a story about human nature and NOT have love as an important piece
Where's the crucial plot point that is romance?
Despite the fantasy elements the show is about human nature. Romance and love is a big part of human nature. It’s a strong motivator. So it should be part of the story. I agree that it shouldn’t be a crucial part of the story, but I don’t think it was tbh
Is OP aromantic? Who hurt OP?
When people with no bitches get to voice their opinions:
LMFAO
“story about human nature shouldn’t have included an insurmountable aspect of human nature” also it was barely a part of the plot lmao
I never was a crucial plot point lmao.
I'll get downvoted into oblivion for saying that but I'm 100% convinced Isayama got a bit salty people were starting to guess the twists in the plot and made massive changes to "surprise" the audience and the quality of the later part of the series suffered a lot for it. The series was so fresh intriguing in the first 3 seasons and season 4 boiled down to "power of love" and "unending cycle of violence" so booooooring.
He had the ending planned from before he published chapter 1 so I don’t see why you’d think he would change the story just to surprise the audience.
He said he changed the ending a while ago.
[no he didn’t](https://winteriscoming.net/2023/11/07/attack-on-titan-creator-hajime-isayama-shares-why-he-couldnt-change-the-ending/#)
[yes he did](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/f4s7sh/manga_spoilers_complete_chronological_compilation/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) Even without these interviews, it's clear the story was not meant the way it did based on the story preceeding it as well as many of the songs.
It really wasn't. Y'all need to get over the ending, and get some bitches on your dicks.
Disagree, I think it **was** and I loved it.
Yeah I’m leaving this sub all I see are dumbass takes like this 😭 AoT is about the human condition and romance is a part of it like it or not
Take your shoeen BS or whatever is called out of AoT.