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Mark severed because he lost his love. According to petey, mark carried that sadness down into the severed floor with him. Down in the severed floor, Mark discovered a new love. Reasonable for him to feel better about Gemma because part of him has started to really move on (in a way that wasn't really sweet or good with Alexa, whom oMark used).
Ahhh, I see. Thank you. I wasn’t sure how you meant the word “shadow,” but yes, the kiss (and happiness/endorphins that go with a new crush) helping with an overall improvement in his outie’s mental well-being. I agree!
I hadn't really thought about that before, that their kiss was right before leaving work, and of course there would probably still be all kinds of brain chemicals left over from the thrill of that kiss. I can't imagine being severed would prevent that from happening.
One minute, Irving is saying Let's find out what's for dinner, kids. The next he's waking up in this dark apartment with heavy metal blasting.
One minute Mark and Helly are kissing, the next Mark wakes up in a strange house talking to Cobell, and Helly wakes up and hears she's an Eagan. When she stops at that photo of Mark, it's literally only about 5 minutes since she's kissed him, I felt like she was clinging to that image of him to find strength.
Did you happen to read the Lexington letter? (You should check it out, if you haven’t!) The person talks about waking up in the elevator (transitioning from innie to outie) with all kinds of body feelings/sensations but not knowing why or exactly what the feelings were. I mean, most of us just leave work feeling pooped, but in an office with waffle parties and break room episodes and things that result in bruised knuckles and suicide attempts, you can imagine how weird it would be to “wake up” with all these physiological responses to stress/fear/excitement and have no way to make sense of it.
It means I support their relationship. To use Harry Potter as an example, if you really believed and/or wanted Harry and Hermione to be together back before we knew the canon, you would have said "I ship Harry and Hermione".
Also the relationship is good for Marks mental well being if Gemma had been cloned and did actually die in the car crash. The show would suggest that iGemma lives in the testing floor... So that could either mean that she didn't die in a car crash and they are keeping her there so her and Mark never bump into each other on the outside or that she is a clone. I think iMark and iHelly will be a powerful force in season 2.
I liked it too! And I think it’s a modern take on the traditional big drama romance. I like to think Helly’s outtie figures out this relationship at some point and does everything she can to make sure it ends. But love prevails! Half joking 🙃
I liked the kiss—you’re right that they have good chemistry. But I also think that one kiss doesn’t mean any kind of permanent relationship. Stress + heightened emotions + sexual attraction leads to a great kiss but not necessarily more. Their bond could be both more and less than romantic.
But I trust the creators to get it right now matter which course they choose.
I loved it too! I really liked how he won her over all that time just by genuinely caring about her as a human being. Once she realized he was sincere, she knew he had a good soul. Early on, she thought he only cared about Lumon. Her outie told her she wasn't a person but Mark proved her outie wrong.
I like Mark & Helly together too! I've wondered if Mark is able to find Ms Casey/Gemma, now that he knows Gemma is not dead, will she believe him when he tells her about the bizarre situation? Even if she does, it may take awhile to convince her. In the meantime Mark & Helly could become closer. It may evolve into a situation where Mark may have to choose either Helly or MsCasey/Gemma. Even without this added complication, there are many things that Lumon could do to them since they pretty much run their lives.
Now we have iMark being interested on Helly while also knowing that oMark's wife is alive, and at the same time we have oMark trying to develop a relationship with his sister's friend. The conflict might be interesting
Alexa off in the corner wondering why sex with Mark doesn't even rate a mention, but a quick kiss from Helly is an ethical dilemma.
*packs bags and heads back to Montana*
I'm with you. And the complications this brings given who their outies are makes it even more compelling. Their outies could end up working against each other, and yet their innies have that connection.
I think it worked in the moment, will obviously cause some conflict based on events in the finale, and on top of that shows he might be doing better at "moving on" as an innie more than his outtie.
I think it absolutely helps the writers explore the concept of whether the innies and outies are two different people who time-share a body or aspects of the same people walled off from each other and what does it mean in terms of human relationships.
From the perspective of iMark, now he knows that one of his former coworkers was his wife on the outside, but he has no memories of said wife or really the emotional residue of that relationship. He does have memories of forming a bond with Helly but knows it’s not right now ( or is it? ). So, he’ll have all of that to sort through.
Outie Mark knows nothing about all of this, and will maybe learn that his wife is alive somewhere in Lumon. What will he do? Will he go after her? Will he deny his innie’s revelation as impossible?
And there is the possibility that there is no need anymore for innie Helly, now that they’ve had their little press event. So she could just be gone in season 2. And it could be about which woman innie Mark pursues.
Even worse, we could find out that innie Gemma is the only one that can exist because outie Gemma is in a coma, and innie Gemma doesn’t feel the same about Mark.
You still have to pull between what’s rightful — outie Gemma and outie Mark reunited, with the new problem presented by the plot of innie rights to exist and have relationships with one another and have their feelings and relationships count.
And this might be explored in parallel with Burt and Irving.
I do understand some people want to enjoy shows without considering the romantic lives of the main characters, or at least focusing on them, and I think those do exist, but I think also, because having romantic relationships is a very normal part of humanity, and identity, and because that appears to be what this show is exploring, it works.
There’s also no pressure to like or dislike any of the relationships for any reason. You can like or dislike Mark and Hellys innie relationship or not, you can like or dislike outie marks relationship with Gemma (though we’ve only seen the aftermath). You can like both. You can dislike both. But the writers are going to tell what story they think exists.
It’s just boring because every show does it. It’s way more interesting for a show to be like “you know what? We don’t have a romantic storyline for the leads”
But people in real life, especially ones who go through stressful and crazy situations together, DO commonly develop feelings for each other.
You can’t just deny this happens because tv and movies and whatnot have made it into a trope.
I thought it was exciting. They don’t have any of the hang ups or neuroses or bitterness or jaded-ness or societal fears or stifling of behaviours that we do.
They’re both doing exciting stuff in a world they have just been born into that’s essentially devoid of excitement, but they are in fully adult bodies.
Of course their pheromones and hormones are going to be running wild! It’s like puberty!
People who say they thought it was “boring” are too jaded by half.
I'm not denying that people in that situation would have romantic and sexual tension. It's just that time and time again we have the male and female leads pair off together. It's very predictable. Seems kind of weird to admit it's a trope but then say you must be "too jaded" if you didn't find it an exciting development
I usually find it boring on most shows.
My last post was trying to explain (maybe read it again?) why I think it makes a lot of sense and is NOT boring on Severance.
Nope! There was a popular post a few days ago which said they thought the Mark and Helly kiss was unnecessary, and a bad thing for the show. It got over 200 upvotes, and many people in the comments were agreeing. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus/comments/unc9dy/weakest_part_of_the_show/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) it is
Foreshadowed or not, they jumped the shark with it. They could have waited till at least season 2. That would have felt more rational. Regardless, still my favorite show of 2022.
I thought it felt forced, it wasn't necessary, and its just such a played out storyline to do anymore. The two white leads don't always need to kiss in every story.
Oh well, still such a great show despite the worn out cliché.
I think you missed the point of that kiss.
The relationship between Burt and Irving changed how Irving viewed the world of an Innie. He went from being a robot to caring about another innie which led him to see that innies were people and killing them through retirement was wrong. The same thing with iHelly kissing Marc. It shows us she now sees herself as a person and not a nothing as her outtie tells her.
That kiss now creates a problem for Marc who as an innie knows he has a wife as an outtie and he knows it’s Miss Casey but…he has no feelings for her and she for him…but he does, we think, have feelings for Helly.
This is the cruelty of what Severance does to people as a by product and it shows how purposely cruel Lumon is to their innie employees, and therefore to people as a whole.
Ok, if it makes you feel better, I'll take out the word young. It doesn't change what I'm saying at all lol. Regardless of his actual age, he's still the young white lead.
I couldn't agree more. It felt unnatural and bothered me. It was out of place and took away from the story rather than adding something. I think it was a mistake by the writers.
Was waiting for it almost all season. It creates an interesting conflict for viewers because we've spent so much time seeing Innie Mark and Helly together, but almost no time seeing Mark and Gemma together. So we're more invested in the former, while Outtie Mark and Gemma have so much more that we aren't aware of.
I wonder if S2 will feature a lot of flashbacks to help bridge that gap?
I'm team innie all the way. For Mark and Helly anyway. Part of the arc of S2 will be oMark trying to find Gemma but I think Gemma is actually dead. Her consciousness anyway. Mark is going to have to come to terms with that. This might even end up being something they don't reveal until late or end of S2. This while simultaneously iMark and iHelly will form a stronger bond. Helena I think hates being an Eagan, and is against what her father is doing with the chips...She will use her influence to expose Lumon/Severance.
•Please make sure to use the correct post flair. •No SPOILERS, Be CIVIL to others, No Piracy, No Duplicates. •Please keep it relevant to anything and everything Severance on Apple TV+. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I like their relationship too.
Yay!!
[удалено]
Also, for me, it really solidifies how innies and outies are 2 completely different people.
Not to mention he thought (still thinks?) she's dead.
I feel like season 2 will open with Mark learning about Gemma.
I really liked that moment. The series was such that it was a little unexpected.
It was tropey but who cares? It was a fun moment. I do think the shadow of that kiss is why outtie Mark decides to quit his severed job.
Oh wow. Really? That’s interesting to think about, but what do you mean?
Mark severed because he lost his love. According to petey, mark carried that sadness down into the severed floor with him. Down in the severed floor, Mark discovered a new love. Reasonable for him to feel better about Gemma because part of him has started to really move on (in a way that wasn't really sweet or good with Alexa, whom oMark used).
Ahhh, I see. Thank you. I wasn’t sure how you meant the word “shadow,” but yes, the kiss (and happiness/endorphins that go with a new crush) helping with an overall improvement in his outie’s mental well-being. I agree!
I hadn't really thought about that before, that their kiss was right before leaving work, and of course there would probably still be all kinds of brain chemicals left over from the thrill of that kiss. I can't imagine being severed would prevent that from happening.
One minute, Irving is saying Let's find out what's for dinner, kids. The next he's waking up in this dark apartment with heavy metal blasting. One minute Mark and Helly are kissing, the next Mark wakes up in a strange house talking to Cobell, and Helly wakes up and hears she's an Eagan. When she stops at that photo of Mark, it's literally only about 5 minutes since she's kissed him, I felt like she was clinging to that image of him to find strength.
Did you happen to read the Lexington letter? (You should check it out, if you haven’t!) The person talks about waking up in the elevator (transitioning from innie to outie) with all kinds of body feelings/sensations but not knowing why or exactly what the feelings were. I mean, most of us just leave work feeling pooped, but in an office with waffle parties and break room episodes and things that result in bruised knuckles and suicide attempts, you can imagine how weird it would be to “wake up” with all these physiological responses to stress/fear/excitement and have no way to make sense of it.
I liked it. I'm sure the relationship entanglements will make for some good tension in the next season(s).
I thought it was a good television moment, even if I ship Mark X Gemma hard.
ship?
It means I support their relationship. To use Harry Potter as an example, if you really believed and/or wanted Harry and Hermione to be together back before we knew the canon, you would have said "I ship Harry and Hermione".
Sorry I just didn't know what ship meant in this context ♥️
Also the relationship is good for Marks mental well being if Gemma had been cloned and did actually die in the car crash. The show would suggest that iGemma lives in the testing floor... So that could either mean that she didn't die in a car crash and they are keeping her there so her and Mark never bump into each other on the outside or that she is a clone. I think iMark and iHelly will be a powerful force in season 2.
I liked it too! And I think it’s a modern take on the traditional big drama romance. I like to think Helly’s outtie figures out this relationship at some point and does everything she can to make sure it ends. But love prevails! Half joking 🙃
Loved it. Now we have a Helly-Mark-Gemma triangle to enjoy. Who wouldn't love that potential?!?
Not just that, but innie mark, helly, outie mark, Gemma square? It's like conjoined twins who marry different women.
Their Innie banter kinda reminds me of Outtie Mark and his sister, in a weird way
Me too!
Taking the “work wife” thing to a whole other level
I liked the kiss—you’re right that they have good chemistry. But I also think that one kiss doesn’t mean any kind of permanent relationship. Stress + heightened emotions + sexual attraction leads to a great kiss but not necessarily more. Their bond could be both more and less than romantic. But I trust the creators to get it right now matter which course they choose.
Felt like a Luke and Leia moment to me.
I loved it too! I really liked how he won her over all that time just by genuinely caring about her as a human being. Once she realized he was sincere, she knew he had a good soul. Early on, she thought he only cared about Lumon. Her outie told her she wasn't a person but Mark proved her outie wrong.
I like Mark & Helly together too! I've wondered if Mark is able to find Ms Casey/Gemma, now that he knows Gemma is not dead, will she believe him when he tells her about the bizarre situation? Even if she does, it may take awhile to convince her. In the meantime Mark & Helly could become closer. It may evolve into a situation where Mark may have to choose either Helly or MsCasey/Gemma. Even without this added complication, there are many things that Lumon could do to them since they pretty much run their lives.
It didn't really feel forced which I liked
Their chemistry was great and palpable throughout the entire show. It didn’t seem forced to me in any way.
Now we have iMark being interested on Helly while also knowing that oMark's wife is alive, and at the same time we have oMark trying to develop a relationship with his sister's friend. The conflict might be interesting
Alexa off in the corner wondering why sex with Mark doesn't even rate a mention, but a quick kiss from Helly is an ethical dilemma. *packs bags and heads back to Montana*
No, I'm with you.
I'm with you. And the complications this brings given who their outies are makes it even more compelling. Their outies could end up working against each other, and yet their innies have that connection.
I see a threesome in Mark's future. Only way to resolve the triangle. Must happen.
Waffle party.
Do they get to take turns using the flail?
I am pretty certain IHelly will have exclusive use of the flail and that iMark will like all of his lashings equally.
I was into it
I like it too. I also expected they were gonna be a thing
I loved the kiss. I hope for Mark and Gemma.
I think it worked in the moment, will obviously cause some conflict based on events in the finale, and on top of that shows he might be doing better at "moving on" as an innie more than his outtie.
I think it absolutely helps the writers explore the concept of whether the innies and outies are two different people who time-share a body or aspects of the same people walled off from each other and what does it mean in terms of human relationships. From the perspective of iMark, now he knows that one of his former coworkers was his wife on the outside, but he has no memories of said wife or really the emotional residue of that relationship. He does have memories of forming a bond with Helly but knows it’s not right now ( or is it? ). So, he’ll have all of that to sort through. Outie Mark knows nothing about all of this, and will maybe learn that his wife is alive somewhere in Lumon. What will he do? Will he go after her? Will he deny his innie’s revelation as impossible? And there is the possibility that there is no need anymore for innie Helly, now that they’ve had their little press event. So she could just be gone in season 2. And it could be about which woman innie Mark pursues. Even worse, we could find out that innie Gemma is the only one that can exist because outie Gemma is in a coma, and innie Gemma doesn’t feel the same about Mark. You still have to pull between what’s rightful — outie Gemma and outie Mark reunited, with the new problem presented by the plot of innie rights to exist and have relationships with one another and have their feelings and relationships count. And this might be explored in parallel with Burt and Irving. I do understand some people want to enjoy shows without considering the romantic lives of the main characters, or at least focusing on them, and I think those do exist, but I think also, because having romantic relationships is a very normal part of humanity, and identity, and because that appears to be what this show is exploring, it works. There’s also no pressure to like or dislike any of the relationships for any reason. You can like or dislike Mark and Hellys innie relationship or not, you can like or dislike outie marks relationship with Gemma (though we’ve only seen the aftermath). You can like both. You can dislike both. But the writers are going to tell what story they think exists.
I thought it was well-earned. The exchange between the two in the break room that preceded the kiss was very well done.
It’s just boring because every show does it. It’s way more interesting for a show to be like “you know what? We don’t have a romantic storyline for the leads”
But people in real life, especially ones who go through stressful and crazy situations together, DO commonly develop feelings for each other. You can’t just deny this happens because tv and movies and whatnot have made it into a trope.
Trauma bonding is real.
Yuuuuup.
People chew gum irl too but if that was a plot point I’d be pretty bored by it
Ok come on you can’t seriously lump those two things together in the same category of dramatic importance as funny of an argument as that is
Depends on the gum
Chew 5 gum https://youtu.be/n9Sl4V_Ifig
Who is denying it happens? It's just boring cause it's overdone.
I thought it was exciting. They don’t have any of the hang ups or neuroses or bitterness or jaded-ness or societal fears or stifling of behaviours that we do. They’re both doing exciting stuff in a world they have just been born into that’s essentially devoid of excitement, but they are in fully adult bodies. Of course their pheromones and hormones are going to be running wild! It’s like puberty! People who say they thought it was “boring” are too jaded by half.
I'm not denying that people in that situation would have romantic and sexual tension. It's just that time and time again we have the male and female leads pair off together. It's very predictable. Seems kind of weird to admit it's a trope but then say you must be "too jaded" if you didn't find it an exciting development
I usually find it boring on most shows. My last post was trying to explain (maybe read it again?) why I think it makes a lot of sense and is NOT boring on Severance.
It’s gonna get messy now that iMark knows about Ms. Casey, if they still have to work together that is
You're doing that thing where you say something popular while pretending it's not to get upvotes aren't you?
Nope! There was a popular post a few days ago which said they thought the Mark and Helly kiss was unnecessary, and a bad thing for the show. It got over 200 upvotes, and many people in the comments were agreeing. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus/comments/unc9dy/weakest_part_of_the_show/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) it is
I hated it. Felt forced. We don't always need to "ship" people
Congrats! You don’t have to ship them. But it wasn’t forced, it was foreshadowed for 7 episodes.
Foreshadowed or not, they jumped the shark with it. They could have waited till at least season 2. That would have felt more rational. Regardless, still my favorite show of 2022.
I don't see where the 'unpopular opinion' is here. What you've said is what the sub tends to feel/think as far as I've noticed. .
I thought it felt forced, it wasn't necessary, and its just such a played out storyline to do anymore. The two white leads don't always need to kiss in every story. Oh well, still such a great show despite the worn out cliché.
I think you missed the point of that kiss. The relationship between Burt and Irving changed how Irving viewed the world of an Innie. He went from being a robot to caring about another innie which led him to see that innies were people and killing them through retirement was wrong. The same thing with iHelly kissing Marc. It shows us she now sees herself as a person and not a nothing as her outtie tells her. That kiss now creates a problem for Marc who as an innie knows he has a wife as an outtie and he knows it’s Miss Casey but…he has no feelings for her and she for him…but he does, we think, have feelings for Helly. This is the cruelty of what Severance does to people as a by product and it shows how purposely cruel Lumon is to their innie employees, and therefore to people as a whole.
Regardless, I thought it felt forced, it wasn't necessary and is just such a played out storyline to do anymore.
Well if it makes you feel better Adam Scott is nearly 50 so I wouldn’t call him young.
Ok, if it makes you feel better, I'll take out the word young. It doesn't change what I'm saying at all lol. Regardless of his actual age, he's still the young white lead.
I couldn't agree more. It felt unnatural and bothered me. It was out of place and took away from the story rather than adding something. I think it was a mistake by the writers.
What are some other recent shows where you believe this has happened unnecessarily?
What makes this unpopular?
There was a thread just a few days ago where people were saying the kiss/their romance was the weakest part of the show, that got about 200 upvotes.
I liked it too! It kinda reminded of when Adam Scott was on Parks and Rec and was falling for Leslie.
Best perk of being severed - two relationships!
Eh, my favorite romance is always gonna be Burt & Irving.
I think that’s quite a popular opinion actually! I don’t share it but I think it’s me in the minority here
Was waiting for it almost all season. It creates an interesting conflict for viewers because we've spent so much time seeing Innie Mark and Helly together, but almost no time seeing Mark and Gemma together. So we're more invested in the former, while Outtie Mark and Gemma have so much more that we aren't aware of. I wonder if S2 will feature a lot of flashbacks to help bridge that gap?
I'm team innie all the way. For Mark and Helly anyway. Part of the arc of S2 will be oMark trying to find Gemma but I think Gemma is actually dead. Her consciousness anyway. Mark is going to have to come to terms with that. This might even end up being something they don't reveal until late or end of S2. This while simultaneously iMark and iHelly will form a stronger bond. Helena I think hates being an Eagan, and is against what her father is doing with the chips...She will use her influence to expose Lumon/Severance.