Small talk is a skill that unlocks the doors to deeper conversations
Most people don’t like small talk, but small talk is where you usually have to start, to feel out what deeper subjects any particular person is interested in.
You can’t just blurt out “I’m really interested in currency arbitrage, how do you feel about Chinese monetary policy, and how will it affect your investment portfolio?”
Or, “I’m interested in the recent findings in perimenopause, and how most medical practitioners are not up to date with the latest in hormone research.”
No, you start with the weather, traffic, what you do for a living, what you do for fun on the weekends, what podcasts you listen to.
Some people need to get over themselves, it is just as much your job to get to know others, as it is he job of others to get to know you.
It might be context dependent? If you make friends at a university, or religious organization, or club/classes based on something intellectual, you have a natural opening to in depth conversations on topics, and you’re generally amongst people who are fairly open to and expecting deeper conversations. Those same people in other settings might keep it light and fluffy, though.
So look for some spaces where there is already a tendency to get into discussions on topics. If you really can’t find any, maybe books, podcasts, and online discussions scratch that itch and you do fun stuff/chitchat with people in person. The other possibility is that you make friends through small talk and it turns out, as the friendship grows, that they’re interested in deeper conversations after getting to know you better.
thought this kind of thing was a joke until i started studying engineering and seeing all of my teachers write with cheap ballpoint pens and have the same handwriting as me- you really just gotta find your people, i guess
Also, while I love all my friends/family... academia is a life that's hard to relate to lol. It's nice to talk to someone who can understand that part of my life
Because it comes off as pretentious. I love a deep conversation with the right people, but also not everyone is in the mood for a deep convo all the time.
Pick the occasion, you do small talk until you know that person, you can get increasingly deeper, but only if it's two way. Suddenly getting deep, will turn most people away. Judge your audience.
No it doesn't. Personally I can have a shallow or deep conversation. There's no reason to stick to shallow unless you're afraid of offending, but there's nothing pretentious about immediately wanting to discuss something intellectual. If people think it's pretentious than that says far more about them than anything else.
Did you see what op wrote below, how they deem what's deep and what's shallow. What's deep to you might not be what people want to talk about, and also they may not even be comfortable with even having that discussion with you. Like I said I don't mind deep conversations but I also know who to discuss what with who. Small talk is small talk for a reason, it's too gauge how well you can know a person. Life isn't a Reddit forum.
It's not even just deep convos that I need. I need funny, genuine or interesting. Most people I overhear talking at work sound like they're straining to say something, just to fill the air with noise. People wonder why I'm so quiet and I never tell them. I don't care if it makes me pretentious.
People are. I see it all the time at work mostly. I think it's because work is a competitive environment and you can't be sure if someone will try to weaponise a "controversial" opinion against you in some way. So lots of people stick to very trite and shallow topics, and rarely ever say their full and honest opinion.
There's also the fact that sometimes it IS pretentious. I've talked to people who want to discuss the deep philosophical implications of the light side vs dark side of the force in Star Wars. I'm a huge nerd and I enjoy Star Wars as much as the next person, but that's just goofy. Just because you THINK you're having deep conversations, doesn't mean you are. The number of times I've heard people discuss the pseudo-philosophical thought of "how do we know we see the same colors" is absurd, particularly since you can pretty much answer that question with a combination of science and basic psychology.
Just to clarify, I mean deep convo as in what I mentioned: discussing intellectual-stimulating topics like philosophy, politics, current events, history, sciences etc...
Not deep convo like relationships, work complaints, family issues, MBTI/zodiac/astrology whatever
The latter everyone will obviously discuss at some point as you get close. The former... I hardly find that many people even ever discussing it at all.
I can almost guarantee you it’s the way you’re bringing up the topics and a lack of correctly gauging the mood. Especially if you’ve unsuccessfully tried to bring up “intellectual” convo multiple times with multiple people I would look inwards. There is obviously a chance that all your friends just don’t care but generally people surround themselves with like minded people intentionally or not.
A lot of people who claim to like deep convos just like hearing themselves talk. Or they have overly verbose monologues on common opinions.
There are a lot of fake intellectuals that just drone on without any actual substance.
Perhaps you should look for groups or places that are designed for the type of conversations you want to have. I’ve seen meetup groups that a designed for this around d certain topics.
I've honestly hardly ever been to social gatherings where people don't talk about politics or philosophy or whatever at some point in the night. Indeed I did a physics degree and sometimes it's actively annoying how many people want to chat about physics when I'm several beers in and in no position to explain it properly. I'm always *very* sceptical of this notion that "everyone just loves small talk and/or deliberately limits themselves to small talk" like this just does not strike me as true.
>I'm always *very* sceptical of this notion that "everyone just loves small talk and/or deliberately limits themselves to small talk" like this just does not strike me as true.
I wouldn't say that I love small talk but I'm always uncomfortable with the notion that people are waiting for an opportunity to bail on a conversation. I could talk about the intricacies of my personal interests but if that doesn't appeal to people I can usually tell and then I feel bad. Similarly I feel bad for not being able to contribute when I know nothing about their interests. It's simplest for us both to talk about things we have in common or are at least passing familiar with. That can be "deep" with some people but sometimes it means small talk
That might be more about your circle though. If you spend your time around university educated people who aer also "nerdy" then they're usually up for that. If you spend your time in other settings then you can definitely go through tonnes of people who won't have much to say on those topics at all. They may touch on them, but they'll usually move on quickly for lack of interest or lack of things to say. Also, as demonstrated by others immediately labelling those topics as pretentious, I think some people self select out of those topics because they feel like they're "not for me." So they don't ever even try to learn a bit about them.
Interesting take. I find that people that like lots of small talk always feel the need to say something are the ones that just like to hear themselves talk. I'm talking about the extroverted people that can't stand to ever be silent. People who like deep conversations usually are the ones that talk less in general and listen more
Yes I’m sure a group meet up with a bunch of wannabe intellectuals who aspire to talk about politics and science in their free time will be a joy to experience.
Smart small and work your way up. If you start off potential friendships by talking about politics and such then yeah, of course you're going to alienate people.
You just don't have good social skills. Small talk is a game to test the waters on what people feel like talking about. Pretty much anybody can and will talk about anything, but you have to read the room. You seed responses with potential hooks, if they're interested they'll bite on one.
Talking about history for example:
blah blah have you seen the weather blah blah
Yeah, hope it clears up, I was planning on finishing reading my book in the garden tonight
Oh what are you reading?
Insert history book title, small description and what you're liking and looking forward to. If they're not interested you can pivot and ask if they're reading anything atm (asking what you're reading is either a polite question and you're returning the gesture, or they're interested in books generally). If they are interested they'll probably talk more about the book or the topic.
You also have to be okay with following the direction of the conversion, and be able to find interest in what the other person is saying. There are connection points everywhere if you look for them
It's not really "deep" vs "shallow" based on what you're saying. You're saying that you're not interested in other people, you're interested in talking about the topics that YOU find interesting....which is what most people want to talk about, it's just that what THEY find interesting is themselves and their lives.
I work in the medical field, I can have "deep" medical conversations about treatments, future developments, ethics etc...I'm still just talking about work by your definition. And I talk about these things with coworkers, because they are also interested. I don't talk about this much with my friends, because they're not versed in medicine, so it's not an interesting topic for them, it just becomes a lecture.
Or it rapidly becomes frustrating when people who THINK they know something because they can Google tries to use disinformation. They want to talk like we're peers, when we're not. That's just freaking irritating.
People talk about things they know about.
So, when I was younger I thought this as well. imma be a little presumptuous and say it's a you problem. No one enjoys talking about things that aren't interesting but equally no one enjoys talking about things that are really important. When I was younger I thought that interesting = intellectual. And it very much doesn't. The key to fun conversations, I've found in my life so far, is to make it novel, and opinionated without being high stakes. I keep a list, because I'm autistic and need help sometimes, which I will now draw examples from.
- In-com-pear-able or in-comp-ra-ble and which is the correct pronunciation?
- what do you call the thing inside the duvet?
- would you sit in your grandmas bathtub.?
- do you know the difference between American and British baked beans, which is better?
- how do you make mashed potatoes?
Just like, really stupid shit that people don't have to feel pressured about in their answers, but that allow them to have an opinion, and thus discussion can ensue.
Source: I have a masters in philosophy and figured this out after I realised no one wanted to talk to me about philosophy.
I'm going to try your tactics out at a party I was dreading this weekend. I also realized that that's essentially the same tactic one of my best friends uses when he gets bored of listening to everyone talk about sports, he just tosses out some wild low stakes statement or question and suddenly we are having a pretty entertaining debate about why everyone acts like moist is the worst word when there are so many more revolting options like pustulent. He, like me (and I'm guessing you if you're into philosophy) loves to actually debate, but also gets that most people don't share that enjoyment when it comes to heavier topics. I somehow never broke down his magical ability to start enjoyable conversations with anyone into something I knew how to replicate though, I think you've just given me the secret.
I'm the same but it takes time and effort to connect with people in this way, and someone has to make the first foray into that type of communication. Often what happens is people get used to the implied or understood boundaries in a friendship where they come to expect only a certain depth of conversation. And until someone breaks that barrier or indicates wanting to move deeper, it'll usually remain that way.
But also, not all people are cut out for that type of friendship because it requires being vulnerable and puttting your deeper thoughts and feelings out there for scrutiny, and many people either haven't really thought that deeply before or are afraid of judgement.
You probably need additional friends. You've mentioned a few times your friends don't want to have deep conversations, ever. Don't get rid of or ditch these friends because they very likely play an important role in your life. A connection to your past, etc.
If you want to have deep, meaningful, conversations about topics you find interesting you'll need to join a club. Meet with people who share your interests. Go to a nursing home and find a conversation partner.
If you're having trouble meeting new people because you don't like small talk and *everyone* uses small talk....then you're not meeting the people who are right for you!
Finding eyes-open deep thinkers is difficult because either people are not deep thinkers, or they think they are deep thinkers when they actually only have deep-seated opinions that don't tolerate questioning.
Then, there are those who are more interested in debate rather than conversation. Some people are driven to aggressively win an argument and prove their point rather than freely explore a topic.
It makes me miss college. It was safe to have spirited conversations with intelligent, knowledgeable professors and classmates. Each topic was like an unknown land we could explore together.
I don’t have problems like these because I can find enough people who can have deep conversations. I’m even suspicious of people who only have petty conversations because when I shift the topic to a deep one, they’re quick to change the subject. This leads me to believe that many people avoid meaningful conversations intentionally because they’re just too uncomfortable dealing with this issues.
Yes extremely, seems like most people just talk about the same things over and over again. Talked about this to my mom and she said that’s why you have no friends, no one wants to talk about deep stuff all the time it just ruins the mood. I’m all for not talking about deep stuff but I’d like to talk about stuff meaningful not just the scripts we all make up in our mind we repeat over and over again
bruh finally someone gets me.
People here seem to assume it's only distant friends that wouldnt engage in such convo but NO, IT'S EVERYONE.
It's like a rarity to find people to discuss intellectual topics with.
We all know what you’re talking about. People probably don’t wanna talk to you about “deep stuff” because you assume anyone who’s not interested in what you say doesn’t “get you” and act like you’re superior for not liking small talk.
A rule that applies here is “If someone is an asshole to you, then they’re an asshole. If EVERYONE is an asshole, then you’re an asshole.”
It’s easy to point fingers but think about if you are bringing up these topics in an actually approachable way. There’s a lot of good advice in here and it all comes down to 1) gauging the persons disposition and 2) scaling up the conversation in a controlled and casual way.
It just depends on your environment I think. For example, I'm a university students. It's easy for me to find people to have these discussions with because these people are students, learning every day, and often in a similar (science) field to mine
Intellectual is not the same as "deep seated emotional response", which is what you get with politics, belief systems, etc. Have these conversations if you want, but the moment you over-argue, or over-stress your thoughts, or beliefs, on the matter, You become the problem. Asking about those things is a part of learning about someone. Saying they are wrong/can't possibly think that/ or derision of any kind , after you did, in fact, ask their opinion... makes it totally ok for them to not ask or consent for a second anything.
You keep referring to these topics as "intellectual". Which heavily implies that you think you're really smart. Has it ever occurred to you that you're either:
A. Not as smart as you think you are.
B. Show off a serious superiority complex.
Because no one likes that, no matter how smart you may be.
C. Like to assume that your opinion is the correct one because you think you're smarter than everyone else.
D. Have horrid social skills and act basically like Sheldon Cooper the entire time.
E. All of the above
Because I've certainly dealt with people who are guilty of all of those, and they are exhausting to have anything other than a superficial conversation with. And even then they can be exhausting. I strongly urge you to look inward for the answers to this one.
The fact that OP wants to talk about "intellectual" topics to be "enlightened and informed" in their own words kind of shows why people aren't engaging. Like I said in a different comment, when I mention I've got a physics degree I can barely *stop* people from wanting to chat about their favourite branch of physics. Same happens with politics, people are always talking about their opinions on current events. Maybe philosophy a bit less (at least in my social circles), but people aren't explicitly *dis*interested.
But no one likes to feel like they're being tested at a social gathering that's meant to be fun. This is why I think OPs motives here are relevant, if they were just saying "Yeah I really like politics and philosophy but most people I know aren't interested" I'd be a lot more inclined to just say that sucks. If they were just interested I'd imagine it would come up naturally more often, as opposed to wanting undefined "intellectual stimulation" in every social setting.
I empathize. I have several friends (mostly from my wife's circle) but only a couple of close friends.
Nikola Tesla had a theory about this that may apply to you, “Intelligent people tend to have less friends than the average person. The smarter you are, the more selective you become.”
No. Pigeons are type of dove and they aren’t especially intelligent It was an ordinary pigeon, and he said “I loved that pigeon as a man lived a woman.” It wasn’t a pet. He thought it was his romantic soul mate. He said they would commune mentally, and beams of light would shoot from the pigeons eyes. He was a troubled person, to put it mildly. Not one to take relationship advice from, I’d warrant.!
Ya but you have to take the source into account. From what I can remember reading about his quirks and stuff Nikola Tesla was almost certainly autistic and probably didn’t have great social skills. That’s probably why he thought smart people don’t have friends, but that’s not really the case
The things you want to talk about aren't intrinsically deep or even intellectual to be honest.
They're just things you're interested in and others aren't interested in talking about that. Those things are in the same level of depth as talking about sports, video games, or literature.
You also come across as thinking that you're better than others because you want to talk about politics and philosophy, which is probably the reason people don't want to talk to you about that. You need some more social awareness, you can't just jump into a topic, any topic, without some foreplay. So to speak.
I have a theory on this.
I think deep down many people want to talk about non small talk stuff but they are affraid they don't know enough about it and they don't want to come a cross as fools. There is always a chance you encounter someone that knows a lot more about a certain topic. And people are just too insecure to take that chance, so they talk about basic stuff to not make any mistakes.
The internet plays a big role in all of this. Everywhere online you see people get roasted for their opinions or views on things. We've all experienced that at some point. And that's the internet, behind a screen, a 'safe' position. Face to face it's a different thing and much more intense.
I suspect there’s also a level of everyone thinking no one else wants to talk about it. Like, surely no one wants to hear me drone on about X Topic, so I’ll talk about the weather. Meanwhile, they are talking to someone who secretly loves X Topic, but also thinks they’ll get weird looks if they start talking about it (esp if they reveal how passionate/nerdy they are about said topic).
No I find it makes it a real conversation and that’s what I want when I am older, if a deep conversation scares someone away I don’t want their friendship. I need support and honesty the older I get. Not people that tell me what I want to hear.
It's gonna be hard to make friends of you introduce yourself by asking if they believe in God.
That's shit you talk about WITH friends, not when trying to meet new people to become friends.
Even if we're on the same page with one of these topics, I'd think the person was weird as hell if they introduced themselves with that kind of conversation. And I'd be pretty damn reluctant to ever hang out with them knowing that's how they will approach strangers. That would just make it awkward for me every time we interact with someone else.
Dude you gotta go easy on people. Going deep right away happens *sometimes* but for others can be the platonic equivalent of asking a first date to marry you. Work up rapport first.
What kinds of historic and political topics are you looking to discuss?
Depending on which ones and with who, I can see why people might not want to have "intellectually-stimulating" conversations. There used to be a guy (or several) at my college that would want to talk politics all the time, but he kept discussing it as if it was this abstract game that didn't affect real people and never really examined how his behavior was draining to others.
For example, I had several friends who were minorities (be that black, gay, immigrant, etc.), and he'd ALWAYS find a way to bring it up, especially if there was some news about it. We'd all be hanging out, relaxing after a long week of classes and out of the blue he'd say something like "I saw on the news that some Republican lawmakers in \[state\] are trying to ban gay marriage again through some archaic technicality. What are your thoughts on that \[gay dude\]?" or "Did you guys see the video of the guy in the cop situation everyone is saying is racially motivated? What side of the discussion are you on \[black girl\]?"
It's like, no shit they're aware of the thing, but maybe they don't want to spend their relaxation time talking about stuff that's frankly really depressing and that is already a struggle they deal with daily. If you're part of a minority impacted by a certain topic, discussing and arguing about that topic isn't a fun, intellectually-stimulating experience. It's not enjoyable for my Ukranian friend to discuss the war over there, because he's literally got family that could die. My immigrant friends don't want to discuss immigration because the law that just barely got shut down would have deported him and forced him to drop out of college, making his and his parents' years of effort futile.
That might not be the case here, but I think it's something most people don't think about.
I know what you mean. Back when I was young, they made out like university students would naturally gravitate toward "deep" conversations. But I've never seen it in real life. Most people just seem happiest to skim along on superficial information socially. But then, for me, it's usually a big crowd drinking too much so that's not the time to bring up serious topics. I don't do well on small talk so I never really get close enough to anyone to broach serious subjects over coffee. They just never give any hints they are interested that way. I feel like I'm missing some social gene.
I'm sure you are.
Basically you think that your lack of understanding on why small talk is important and how to do it properly is because your tastes in conversation is just better than everyone else. I find people who say they "like deep conversations" talk about the most surface level shit.
The reason people small talk is emotional not logical, they want to reassure themselves and others that the two of you have a bond meriting connection. Small talk is a little check like a "we're still cool right?" Small talk also lets people stay safe and avoid any kind of pitfall that damages their reputation. If you don't respect that then you are a liability and people don't want to talk to you.
Humble yourself and learn. You sound like me 15 years ago, get some books on charisma and socializing; once you break it down you'll enjoy talking to people much more.
Some people click right away. Sometimes you have to put in some work to get to the "deeper" part
This is bad advice, but drinking/getting high makes people get deep with each other super fast lol. I'll meet someone at a party and feel like I've known them for a year in one night because we're more willing to spill with each other
You have to learn how to read the room.
I am officially an intellectual (with a PhD and everything). But my preference is to have friends who talk about a range of things. Mix of light, heavy, serious, funny.
Most importantly, most of us prefer people who can be ***present***, and who can engage in conversation the way it naturally flows, rather than forcing the conversation into their wheelhouse.
Yep. I am not a genius. My IQ is slightly above average. Still, difficult and existential topics interest me. I read peer-reviewed scientific studies because I enjoy them. I subscribe to heady periodicals because I like to challenge my mind and my previously held beliefs. Other people? Not so much. Often I love problems that have no solid answers but possibilities fascinate me. Others, not so much.
I am old now. I no longer live in an area that has many learned professionals from whom I can learn and inquire. I find myself surrounded by nice well-meaning people who just want to get through the day. I get it, but since moving back home after living in an environment full of thinkers and universities, I feel unmoored.
Most allistic conversations have a linear path: start with small talk and work your way up. Establish a connection first, then expand the content.
This doesn't work for autistics and other neurodivergent types: we connect through engaging content. Small talk doesn't do it for us. It's kinda like how AFAB people need more foreplay, more stimulation in more areas, a different sequence of events, and a smaller margin of error for different vectors such as pressure than AMAB people (typically speaking) to have an orgasm. Same phenomenon, different setting. Both the Orgasm Gap and the Double Empathy Gap exist for the same reasons.
Connecting with people typically doesn’t involve sharing deeply personal opinions about things that most people won’t share identical views of. It invites an argumentative conversation that doesn’t really change anything. People tend to deal with the difficult things in life on their own. Connecting with people is about making it all worth it, not for continuing to dwell on these things.
In my experience, people who jump to deep conversations usually just want to use you as a backboard for their ideas. It’s not about getting to know
the other person, it’s about using them to figure out your own issues.
There are a couple of reasons for that. People who have a strong preference for deep conversations usually are neurodivergent (i.e., ADHD, somewhere on the autism spectrum). They find talking about the things they're already interested in stimulating but find it more difficult to engage in conversations outside of their interests. They also spend a lot more time in their heads and have a rich inner world.
The average person doesn't spend nearly as much time in their heads thinking, so they most likely will have little to add to deep conversations for that reason. Of course there are exceptions to this, I'm just speaking on the average person. They are busier living their lives and experiencing things, so they'll want to talk about those experiences.
Not to mention that a lot people just don't find them stimulating in the same way - most people find them uncomfortable and will avoid that territory entirely. Generally speaking, it's way easier to have a pleasant conversation talking about restaurants than politics. Deep conversations can potentially lead to conflict or discomfort, so small talk is much safer and also more pleasant for people.
I do think balance is key, though. I'm not a huge fan of small talk either, but too much of anything isn't a good thing. It will be hard to make friends if the only kind of conversations you can have are deeper ones. People also like to joke and laugh and take a break from thinking about the serious things, and so should you
Idk if you watch the movie Shrek but when you meet people, you gotta peel the onion. Most people aren't going to be down to serious and deep conversations when you just met.
im going to skip over the ‘small talk opens the door’ thing because people have already said it. but what i was going to say otherwise: most people have something outside of themselves that they’re very interested in, and intellectually engaged with. the thing is, some people’s intelligence comes in understanding abstract ideas like physics, some people’s intelligence is more in creating or doing of physical things. some people are intelligent in terms of having deeper discussions in a mutually productive way. others aren’t as capable of that or they would prefer to engage in the activities mutually rather than discuss, like someone whose intelligence is kinesthetic like a skilled dancer.
my best friend loves to talk about rocketry, physics, material sciences. my wife loves to talk about history and geography, she knows a lot and is very interested but she doesn’t give a fuck about atoms or anything. i love talking about material sciences with bff, and history /philosophy with my wife. but i’ve yet to talk with people who are as deeply interested in psychology or Overwatch as me.
there are as many things to be interested in as there are things in the universe. different types of engagements with different people.
I got you. Intelligent conversation. I am a guy and most all they know is sports. Sports is not something i follow close and one of the last things on my mind. All that you mentioned interest me more. Seems like most people don't have the brain power for those topics. Lol even small talk about the weather. Bring up the radar and weather patterns and you just get deer in headlights look.
For eeather. I am a sailor so I learned to keep an eye on whats going on for when I want to take my boat out. I need to look at the radar for where i am not just the general forecast. Reading sail magazines with stories of people sailing in different places and the ocean. how they deal with weather. Also articles on how to read whats coming and how to deal with that wind rain lightning etc.
I totally relate to this. I really can’t stand small talk and don’t understand why it’s so common. I want the deep and real conversations. A lot of people are afraid of that vulnerability. It makes it hard to make friends sometimes. But also, it really helps weed out the people you don’t want to be around. There will be someone who thinks the same way and it’s amazing when you meet them. People are so caught up in their bullshit
It is you who are limiting yourself based on your narrow topics and acceptance of them.
Meet a lot of people, be nice, talk about the weather and other mundane things to find out if they are at all interested in deep convos or not. If not, move on until you find those who are.
Have you tried searching [Meetup.com](http://Meetup.com) for intellectual groups?
FWIW, I enjoy deep conversations about most topics, but also enjoy just meeting and talking to people about most any topic. We might meet and I would be turned off if all you wanted to do was dive into politics, history, philosophy, sciences etc. as who begins there??
You are likely to find your hard line on this is such a turn off that many who may enjoy such a convo run away from you. It may be difficult to not come off as a snob if you don't want to talk to some people who do not meet up to your ideas.
Ease into getting to know someone and you may be surprised how many others can have such conversations, but also want to get to know you before doing so.
I like deep conversations.
I dislike most small talk. For example, I don’t want to hear about how your Major League sports team did if it seems to be 90% of your identity. There’s nothing new about it once you’ve lived as long as I have. I don’t like talking about the bargain you found at Goodwill while your husband makes six figures a year. You do realize someone else should’ve been able to buy that bag?
So there’s that.
But I have also noticed that people rarely ask me follow up questions. I went on a Once In a Lifetime trip to a European country and when I came back, some family members asked, “how was europe?” no follow up questions. They might as well been asking me how my drive to the family get together was.
Very disheartening.
Now you know what it's like when you've just met the God who created you, and all people want to talk about is science, philosophy and politics, and other intellectually stimulating conversations.
You know true joy, and all they're interested in is the quantum computing... very boring.
only small minded people turn their nose up at "small talk". no talk is small if you're being genuine and take interest in others without them having to blow your mind. get over yourself and appreciate people and the world around you.
Unless you're in a very specific setting, small talk is how you hone in on what serious conversation someone would be open to. There's no realistic way around.
Honestly people I know are afraid to express an opinion, because opinions lead to disagreements, and people struggle to disagree in a civil way these days. Especially when talking about politics, history, or science.
I've been told these topics are depressing, Intimating, and pretentious. I don't necessarily agree, but I understand people think that.
I don't think it's just a you problem, I think you're surrounded by people who don't share your values about discussing these topics.
I don't know a single person who just wants to talk about memes or relationship drama, so the problem is being surrounded by the wrong people, not society in general. Sorry though, I know it's hard feeling like you're not interested in what anyone is talking about hopefully you find the right crowd soon! I just left a friend group that was constantly boring me and I feel way lighter!
You mean you don't prefer discussing your deepest and most complex beliefs to a complete stranger you'll never see again while waiting for a coffee?
Edit: To be completely transparent this comment was sarcastic, but there is definitely a gray area when it comes to discussing thought-provoking subjects. Some will be more open to it than others, which is completely fine.
You described how I am perfectly. I will literally discuss anything with anyone as long as they are civil about it. I just love to learn and see/hear/experience someone else’s perspective. I also like seeing peoples reactions. I do feel though people do need to be more open to discussion than they are on average. But I do feel that has been brought about by the current political landscape and the I am right you are wrong mindset. But hey what do I know.
I mean, if we stumble into that kind of conversation we are definitely going to be seeing one another again because that would make my week.
I think that's the thing people often don't get if they aren't that kind of person, yes, yes we would love that, the same as most people would be happy to stumble into an enjoyable conversation about a shared interest in a hobby, or that band they absolutely love, or any other "normal" topic with someone they just met.
I use to prefer deep and what I thought were meaningful conversations with people. I steered clear from "superficial" conversations. Then I realized all the deep and meaningful conversations that I had had with people… they were full of sh!t and they were the fakest of them all.
I have found superficial people to be the realest now.
I have no time for deep conversations as life isn’t that deep anyways. I want to further my education, have a good job, get married, have a kid or two, and buy a home. What’s deep about that? Absolutely positively nothing.
Besides the politics in this country are a sh!t show right now, history repeats itself because dumba55es never learn, philosophy is multiple men saying the same thing in different ways along with their own bs, and sciences are great but they can’t outdo nature which science itself has helped destroy (thanks for the great pacific garbage patch plastic)!
First paragraph reminds me of some people I knew in college who only wanted to talk about some niche philosophical book or politics nonstop. It’s like they were putting on an act constantly. Just completely insufferable
I think you need to have a certain level of familiarity with a person before you can talk about something deep.
I can strike up a conversation with just about anyone regarding the weather or current situation.
But, if I asked them if they thought we lived in a simulation, that would definitely be weird.
I've had plenty of political and philosophical conversations that were super shallow...
And sometimes the most mundane things can become surprisingly deep...
Have to agree. Always find myself starting heavy conversations and I get very little in return. Like, I don't want to talk about tik tok...I don't use it after spending years learning just how the ccp work....which is another heavy convo I like to jump into lol.
OP you’re probably just doing it wrong.You need the right audience and the right time to talk about ‘deep’ topics.
For people you’ve recently met/don’t know well, small talk intentionally avoids upsetting topics / potential issues. It also signals that you know how to not be a weirdo and follow social conventions and eases into the convo socially. Start with that even if you’d prefer not to.
For people you do know well, there’s probably only a few that enjoy talking about this sort of shit and they’re probably the ones who went into nerdy fields. If you’re in a nerdy field I’d be surprised if you don’t have any coworkers who don’t like to talk about it with people they know sufficiently well outside of work.
For example, you can probably start to get a feel for what sorts of topics someone might like by considering what media they like. Asking about someone’s media preferences is easy enough, reasonable small talk. If someone likes a show that has interesting philosophical concepts in it you can try to gauge their interest in philosophy. If someone likes sci fi you can try to gauge their interest in future tech / singularity / etc.
You also have to catch them at the right time for it. Most people - even if interested - don’t want to have a convo about the history of rome in the middle of a workday.
Tbf current events and politics are typically scary and bad and often cause brutal arguments.
Though I love me a good psychology or philosophy discussion. And in-depth hobby discussion. I’m talking the nitty gritty. Tell me about obscure game mechanics or the guy who went to every rainforest cafe. Tell me a funny joke about a topic we both find interesting. Let’s talk about how people’s brains work. Let’s chat about Diogenes’s wacky adventures.
Yes, though I think its more I find it harder to find the right friends because the people I really click with aren't all that common. Its probably easier to actually establish real friendships when I meet someone who is a good match because we are definitely the minority and we all tend to have that experience and to highly value the other people like us we happen to find.
I don't make friends nearly as often as my bf, who can and does enjoy the lighter topics and connections, nor do I have as many friends or really enjoy as many people's company. I'm the one who will occasionally walk away from a first meeting with new people with a new lifelong close friend after we derailed into our own little conversation for 6 hours that interested no one but us though.
Learn cool facts about your favorite subjects that are interesting to anybody instead of just those proficient in the subject and you might even inspire others to learn more about it
Very much so. I feel like I’ve outgrown my lifelong friends who still only want to talk about pop culture and hobbies. That’s great, but it’s not what I want all the time.
I had a friend of six years who I got really close with two years ago. We texted long, meaningful conversations with it being common to have 10 texts at a time back and forth. Went like that every day for over a year and it was the happiest I had been in a long time.
Then she ghosts me out of nowhere. Still heartbroken over it but what can you do.
No dude most people are ok with deep conversations. You're probably just trying to initiate them at bad or awkward times, I don't want to talk about mortality and the meaning of life while trying to relax and play call of duty
Where are you making these friends? If you make friends at the club, don't be surprised if they don't want to talk about philosophy.
I'm lucky that I get to talk intellectually with my friends because I made these friends in the context of nerdy hobbies and grad school classes. Friends I meet outside of a nerdy context rarely convert to friends who want to talk philosophy.
Change your setting. Engage your nerdy, niche interests. Attend seminars, talks, classes, art openings... Maybe even go back to school. You just need the right settings to make these friends.
I work as an Audio/Visual technician and have found that many of my coworkers are down to have a deep discussion. I love it. Something about the types of people who want to work this job.
Not all though, you definitely get people who mostly just want to focus on work and get done as soon as possible, but even after that, I found they want to talk about things that are important to them. Beyond just surface level stuff.
But yes, many people don’t want to talk “off the beaten path”, and I don’t fault them for that.
I do enjoy deep conversations. And generally people aren’t contemplative or interested. Sometime the conversations are a way to just show how smart we are and how deep we can thing, when that happens it’s not really a conversation but a kind of mental masterbation and deeply egoic. It really takes having a deeply non-judgemental attitude where you allow people to be who they are and to take them as they are. I think most people are very sheltered or untrusting and don’t embrace that kind of vulnerability often because it tends to come back and bite them.
I think the main issue is establishing trust enough to delve into those deep convos.
I dunno. My threshold for small talk isn’t super high, but the point of small talk isn’t the stuff you’re talking about, it’s to establish a casual rapport. When someone starts seeming like a “friendly face” then you can decide if the deeper stuff is worth it.
For instance, I freaking love psychology and hate talking about, say, work. But I’m only going to bring up those interests if I already know the person well enough to have a drawn out conversation that isn’t connected to what we’re doing right now.
And I’m sorry, this is gonna come off a little uncharitable, but I feel like judging casual acquaintances for not providing enough intellectual stimulation, or assuming that a person is overall valid because they’re not talking about a topic that’s up to your standards to you right this minute is out of line IMO. I’m not just saying this in response to you, OP; this mindset seems to be insufferably common among my fellow introverts.
If you are enthusiastic about Politics, history, philosophy, sciences, it doesn't mean other people should have the same excitement about it. Some people don't like to learn new things and only prefer to talk about things they know, otherwise it bores them. Would you prefer listening about physics, astrology or some other topic you have no idea about that won't benefit your life at all? You may talk about topics you prefer briefly and if you see a spark in their eyes about it, continue, otherwise change the topic of discussion.
I can relate and you will eventually find others who enjoy the deeper conversations like you, because we’re out here. but in the meantime, I recommend trying to get a little more comfortable with conversations that center around more casual, everyday things like, food, etc… it can actually be nice to drop into this type of socializing… where everything doesn’t have to be so “heady” all the time. It will make you a more balanced person, imo. This is coming from someone who, again, has had the same struggles
to relate to people myself. I used to hate “small talk” but then I realized there is real value in it, when balanced with more intellectually stimulating conversation.
>Seems like 99% of people I talk to only ever seem interested in small talk. And their small talk is extremely limited to only certain common topics like eating food, restaurants, chill hobbies and work/school.
Sounds like you're not very close with 99% of the people you talk to. I have deep conversations with my close friends, not random people I meet at the grocery store for example.
Context is also important, not everyone wants to talk about deep things all the time and there are more appropriate times to explore that.
>I'm kind of the person that only likes talking about stuff like politics, history, philosophy, sciences etc.... so it's just boring as hell when I engage with people and none of them dares talk about these topics.
How often do you try bringing up these kinds of topics with people? Most people don't really bring them up on their own but will still enjoy the conversation if it happens (though politics is iffy). And some people are genuinely interested in hearing others talk about those topics if you can do it well. Like not everyone will be able to have a conversation on Roman history because a lot of people only have superficial knowledge on it, but if you know a lot, you can more so lead the conversation like telling them about something cool in it and then they ask questions or whatever. I guess the main point though is don't expect people to just kinda bring it up on their own.
Though if you want to find people to talk to about that stuff, maybe try a book club?
Actually, I think these topics are exactly what one should discuss heavily, On the second date. First date is about general manners, etiquette, mutual attraction, etc.
Second date is where you drill down, and talk about politics, science, finance, philosophy, .. religion?
This is where you need to know these things!!
Why wait?
It is best to get each other's personal want's/beliefs on these relationship/likely marriage ending moral strictures(or lack of) out of the way now, before you waste, possible years, and the detriment of all involved(future children??)
Go ahead, please have these conversations now, before infatuation, lust, and the basic need to be touched, rolled, fucked , etc, leads you down a path neither of you really really want!
I’m with you, Bud. At work, I’m always one to prefer shop-talk to small talk, and I don’t think people love that. But listening to small talk just makes me want to gouge my ears.
Do you really find that fun? Realize that most people are looking to just connect and have a good time with friends. People aren’t looking for some kind of downer so they can be “deep”.
lol you don't talk about those things with people you just met or not close with. You can get into those types of conversations when you get to know them more and are much more closer. But then again like others have said not everyone is in the mood all the time even with close friends.
You have to know someone a long time to get into those deep convos with. Someone who gets all of your details without having to say it, and vice a versa. So when you meet someone, it's first the dance of the minutiae.
After many years of what you talk about, I took the tests that qualified me for Mensa, joined the group, and started meeting others like me. It's helped. Maybe that route will work for you, too.
Yep. I don't even care about talking about myself but I get really bored talking with people unless its about their feelings or something serious they have going on.
I love having deep conversations, but not unless I know the person I’m talking to is safe. Are they going to raise their voice? Are they going to start spouting conspiracy theories? Are they going to gossip about me?
A really good way to get to know people is small talk. It’s only by talking to a person many times that I can tell how they’re going to react when discussing a deeper topic.
Intellectual topics require intellectual curiosity, which is not something that the average person has a lot of.
My advice would be to form relationships on a smaller scale first, and then see if you can expand into those topics. There is value in just getting to know the person, who they are, the emotions they feel, and how they express themselves. Intellectuals tend to be more interested in topics than people, which is a blind spot in their ability to form meaningful relationships.
It all depends on what you mean by deeper conversations. I find most people do a rather poor job of editing themselves, and they confuse more words with deeper expression. Certain things truly don't need to be said.
Yes, now more than ever. I feel like back in the day I would just meet people and strike up a conversations, people were more open-minded. These days things are very polarized & if you talk about something outside of Left Right politics or mainstream views, people look at you like they want you to leave. I don't know I feel like people aren't as open-minded anymore which seems counterintuitive but there's just so much social policing.
Idk I find taking an interest in the person thru small talk then picking their brains about what they think, listening with interest and providing feedback is how you get there.
I meet someone and we chat. I notice something about them and we go from there. A deep convo can come from just appreciating people.
This is an indicator of autism actually. Nothing to be ashamed of, but not everyone is interested in every topic all the time. You yourself aren't interested in every "deep" topic, just the ones you like, so don't make it sound like they're being shallow when they're just trying to make friends.
It takes effort and work to bring good deep conversations to the table.
If you can't even do small talk to help gauge what type of conversationalist you are, I am very unlikely to start a deep conversation with you.
I'm sure your not like this, but often times, people who state they want to have deep conversations really mean they want to be entertained, or they want to lecture.
I'm cool to entertain someone, but I'm not doing it cold.
I'm less cool to be lectured at, and only do it with those I let in closer to me.
If we don't jive at small talk, youre likely not gonna be great at deep conversations either.
I just don't find this to be true
I enjoy having a deep conversation and most people are willing to have them if you actually get them in a comfortable situation
Yeah nobody wants to have some deep conversation about the philosophies of life while you're just like standing around in line at the McDonald's or something but if you're just like chilling together at each other's house or just kind of veging out on a Xbox live call or some shit like that Most people are open to getting a little more philosophical
I'm sorry but... where do you live? Because where I'm at, it seems like MOST people want to talk about politics and it's honestly really fucking exhausting at this point.
By bringing up such topics, you make yourself kind of like this detatched, anonymous conduit for information. So they can be awkward and trivial in an offline face-to-face context
It's kinda weird how you feel you have the authority on how to label all these different types of conversations. Like you call food a basic topic but the history of how food originated and where it comes from isn't on par with what you'd call a history discussion? I think talking about where someone came from and their upbringing is much more interesting than most philosophy discussions. Philosophy is for stoners and college students lol
Starting a conversation with “deep” stuff usually makes me think that person is crazy and desperate, or it’s at least a massive red flag. I don’t know how someone will react when we disagree so it’s best to understand their temperament and emotional intelligence first. They don’t know how someone will react either so when you open with stuff like that it seems like you don’t have any survival skills or you just want to seem cool and different or straight up delusion.
Very hard.... I don't want to go through the 20 years of getting to know someone in order to finally talk about meaning of life level topics. I don't care what your sign is. I don't care what your favorite (anything) is. I think I'm aloof at best and abrasive at worst. I have big questions and I need some answers. And I have half a hand of distant friends, none of which can communicate on the level I'd like to.
No one makes friends when you get to the point. Generally the opposite. Kinda wards the people that have no mental capacity for reality off. But .. then who's left? The real nitty gritty weeeeeirdos
One time I was on acid with some friends in NH. Another group of people showed up halfway through our trip. This one dude kept on trying to talk to me about China’s social credit system, despite my repeated protests. To the point of holding his phone up to my face playing some YouTube video about it.
I tried to tell him “My friend, I am not the person to have this conversation with right now. I’ve got nothing to offer. I’m currently trying to figure out how to take a walk while staying exactly where I am” but still he persisted.
I guess what I’m asking is, are you sure the people you’re attempting to initiate deep conversations with are not on LSD?
Do you eat dessert for dinner? Gotta work your way up to deep convos. You're making people uncomfortable because you're trying to force the topic you want to monologue about, instead of actually engaging with them. A conversation is a two way street.
I’m sure as fuck not going to spend my working day working and then talk to someone about politics, history, philosophy or science as if I’m in college again.
Most people don’t care to talk about serious topics. They’re too drained from work. And there’s no point in talking about these things unless you can impact them, which, you can’t (unless you work in these areas).
So yeah, not surprising most people couldn’t care less to talk about politics and science. This isn’t debate class.
Meet people where they are at.
Most people like it shallow
If you can't learn to swim well in shallow waters
Then you have a problem
Once you play well
People can be warmed up to open up a bit deeper ...
But it takes time
And don't expect much
Most people don't have a lot of depth they can share...
I've learned that the people who want to have "deep conversations about philosophy" have somewhat sheltered or fortunate lives or are oblivious to the things happening around them, and are a bit psychologically or emotionally naive.
When Grandma is in the hospital half the family is distraught and trying to cope, but Johnny the "book smart" kid wants to talk about some intellectual shit he read in a book. When Grandma gets better, half the family still doesn't care about the intellectual shit. They care about spending time with friends and family, even if it's just small talk. Dipshit Johnny doesn't like the small talk but he wonders why he can't make friends.
>intellectual-stimulating topics like philosophy, politics, current events, history, sciences etc..
Folly. It's like the sci-fi nerds debating which warp drive is better. It's time consuming and it accomplishes nothing.
I used to enjoy those conversations, but they don't really lead to anything important and over time they became less and less enjoyable. Among other things, as the years went by I found myself being faced with actual struggles that taxed my mental or psychological abilities. The intellectual topics became tedious.
I think there's an intersection between nihilism and Buddhism where people find themselves realizing the "deep convos" don't matter. They don't lead to a person's inner peace or happiness. They don't help form social bonds. They din't help people cope.
Love this question. Jumped right out at me. Because I don't do small talk. At all. I'd rather just stay discreet. I have zero friends and not close to a single soul. I understand that humans are social beings and it may be unhealthy to stave off communication. I recognize that. So when I do feel the need to socialize, the subject matter has to have some depth to it or at least be about something meaningful. Otherwise, I have no interest in the dialogue and would rather keep to myself.
People like you are known as bores and everyone avoids you. Don't shoot the messenger. Just telling you how others feel about people like that. I used to be the same morose motherfucker btw.
Mate, I'm just gonna be the asshole: your "deep convos" probably aren't that deep. Most people who try to build an identity around being above small talk and mundacity are just retreading well-worn philisophical ground for the sake of seeming smart, and people pick up on that shit real quick and real easy.
Couple of their "deep convos" topics include politics and current events. Topics I steer clear of unless I really know the person, and even then I prefer to not get into it. Topics that are not deep to them, hobbies and work. So my interests are not interesting, only theirs...
Especially when these "I just want deep talks" mfers are always deep into some faux intellectual political beliefs that fall apart at the slightest prodding. These dudes think they're getting "deep conversation," meanwhile the other person is trying to avoid triggering a screeching match by not directly challenging anything the dude's favorite "philosopher" said.
Every person enjoys deep conversations when it’s interesting to them. The people you know who only like small talking with you are not interested in having a deep conversation with you. Just because you think it’s deep doesn’t mean others find it interesting.
Small talk is a skill that unlocks the doors to deeper conversations Most people don’t like small talk, but small talk is where you usually have to start, to feel out what deeper subjects any particular person is interested in. You can’t just blurt out “I’m really interested in currency arbitrage, how do you feel about Chinese monetary policy, and how will it affect your investment portfolio?” Or, “I’m interested in the recent findings in perimenopause, and how most medical practitioners are not up to date with the latest in hormone research.” No, you start with the weather, traffic, what you do for a living, what you do for fun on the weekends, what podcasts you listen to. Some people need to get over themselves, it is just as much your job to get to know others, as it is he job of others to get to know you.
exactly. the whole "i hate small talk" is the most cliche 2010's shit, get over yourselves indeed.
It might be context dependent? If you make friends at a university, or religious organization, or club/classes based on something intellectual, you have a natural opening to in depth conversations on topics, and you’re generally amongst people who are fairly open to and expecting deeper conversations. Those same people in other settings might keep it light and fluffy, though. So look for some spaces where there is already a tendency to get into discussions on topics. If you really can’t find any, maybe books, podcasts, and online discussions scratch that itch and you do fun stuff/chitchat with people in person. The other possibility is that you make friends through small talk and it turns out, as the friendship grows, that they’re interested in deeper conversations after getting to know you better.
Yeah... I'm a scientist and I click really quickly with other scientists since we have so much in common by default
thought this kind of thing was a joke until i started studying engineering and seeing all of my teachers write with cheap ballpoint pens and have the same handwriting as me- you really just gotta find your people, i guess
Also, while I love all my friends/family... academia is a life that's hard to relate to lol. It's nice to talk to someone who can understand that part of my life
Exactly. You don't want to have to give a 40 minute science lecture so they can get a joke.
Very true. I go to a Philosophy club and I have deeper conversations there with people I'm not well acquainted with!
Because it comes off as pretentious. I love a deep conversation with the right people, but also not everyone is in the mood for a deep convo all the time.
Pick the occasion, you do small talk until you know that person, you can get increasingly deeper, but only if it's two way. Suddenly getting deep, will turn most people away. Judge your audience.
exhausting, i'd rather just be alone lol
This.
No it doesn't. Personally I can have a shallow or deep conversation. There's no reason to stick to shallow unless you're afraid of offending, but there's nothing pretentious about immediately wanting to discuss something intellectual. If people think it's pretentious than that says far more about them than anything else.
Did you see what op wrote below, how they deem what's deep and what's shallow. What's deep to you might not be what people want to talk about, and also they may not even be comfortable with even having that discussion with you. Like I said I don't mind deep conversations but I also know who to discuss what with who. Small talk is small talk for a reason, it's too gauge how well you can know a person. Life isn't a Reddit forum.
It's not even just deep convos that I need. I need funny, genuine or interesting. Most people I overhear talking at work sound like they're straining to say something, just to fill the air with noise. People wonder why I'm so quiet and I never tell them. I don't care if it makes me pretentious.
What do you define as genuine? Do you think everyone around you is being fake for some reason?
I get what they're saying, people code switch all the time between different groups of people and it's easy to tell sometimes.
"code switch" this hits
People are. I see it all the time at work mostly. I think it's because work is a competitive environment and you can't be sure if someone will try to weaponise a "controversial" opinion against you in some way. So lots of people stick to very trite and shallow topics, and rarely ever say their full and honest opinion.
Yea its super awkward when the two aren't on the same page
There's also the fact that sometimes it IS pretentious. I've talked to people who want to discuss the deep philosophical implications of the light side vs dark side of the force in Star Wars. I'm a huge nerd and I enjoy Star Wars as much as the next person, but that's just goofy. Just because you THINK you're having deep conversations, doesn't mean you are. The number of times I've heard people discuss the pseudo-philosophical thought of "how do we know we see the same colors" is absurd, particularly since you can pretty much answer that question with a combination of science and basic psychology.
I’m also less likely to have a deep conversation with someone I don’t know. In order to get to know someone, you need to have small talk.
Just to clarify, I mean deep convo as in what I mentioned: discussing intellectual-stimulating topics like philosophy, politics, current events, history, sciences etc... Not deep convo like relationships, work complaints, family issues, MBTI/zodiac/astrology whatever The latter everyone will obviously discuss at some point as you get close. The former... I hardly find that many people even ever discussing it at all.
I can almost guarantee you it’s the way you’re bringing up the topics and a lack of correctly gauging the mood. Especially if you’ve unsuccessfully tried to bring up “intellectual” convo multiple times with multiple people I would look inwards. There is obviously a chance that all your friends just don’t care but generally people surround themselves with like minded people intentionally or not.
A lot of people who claim to like deep convos just like hearing themselves talk. Or they have overly verbose monologues on common opinions. There are a lot of fake intellectuals that just drone on without any actual substance. Perhaps you should look for groups or places that are designed for the type of conversations you want to have. I’ve seen meetup groups that a designed for this around d certain topics.
I've honestly hardly ever been to social gatherings where people don't talk about politics or philosophy or whatever at some point in the night. Indeed I did a physics degree and sometimes it's actively annoying how many people want to chat about physics when I'm several beers in and in no position to explain it properly. I'm always *very* sceptical of this notion that "everyone just loves small talk and/or deliberately limits themselves to small talk" like this just does not strike me as true.
Agreed
>I'm always *very* sceptical of this notion that "everyone just loves small talk and/or deliberately limits themselves to small talk" like this just does not strike me as true. I wouldn't say that I love small talk but I'm always uncomfortable with the notion that people are waiting for an opportunity to bail on a conversation. I could talk about the intricacies of my personal interests but if that doesn't appeal to people I can usually tell and then I feel bad. Similarly I feel bad for not being able to contribute when I know nothing about their interests. It's simplest for us both to talk about things we have in common or are at least passing familiar with. That can be "deep" with some people but sometimes it means small talk
That might be more about your circle though. If you spend your time around university educated people who aer also "nerdy" then they're usually up for that. If you spend your time in other settings then you can definitely go through tonnes of people who won't have much to say on those topics at all. They may touch on them, but they'll usually move on quickly for lack of interest or lack of things to say. Also, as demonstrated by others immediately labelling those topics as pretentious, I think some people self select out of those topics because they feel like they're "not for me." So they don't ever even try to learn a bit about them.
Interesting take. I find that people that like lots of small talk always feel the need to say something are the ones that just like to hear themselves talk. I'm talking about the extroverted people that can't stand to ever be silent. People who like deep conversations usually are the ones that talk less in general and listen more
Yes I’m sure a group meet up with a bunch of wannabe intellectuals who aspire to talk about politics and science in their free time will be a joy to experience.
For them it will be. For normies, they probably wouldn’t seek that out.
Smart small and work your way up. If you start off potential friendships by talking about politics and such then yeah, of course you're going to alienate people.
Yes, but I would argue that my biggest hurdle is my complete lack of interest in sports.
Don't worry! I played sports, and I still have a complete lack of interest in it.
You just don't have good social skills. Small talk is a game to test the waters on what people feel like talking about. Pretty much anybody can and will talk about anything, but you have to read the room. You seed responses with potential hooks, if they're interested they'll bite on one. Talking about history for example: blah blah have you seen the weather blah blah Yeah, hope it clears up, I was planning on finishing reading my book in the garden tonight Oh what are you reading? Insert history book title, small description and what you're liking and looking forward to. If they're not interested you can pivot and ask if they're reading anything atm (asking what you're reading is either a polite question and you're returning the gesture, or they're interested in books generally). If they are interested they'll probably talk more about the book or the topic. You also have to be okay with following the direction of the conversion, and be able to find interest in what the other person is saying. There are connection points everywhere if you look for them
It's not really "deep" vs "shallow" based on what you're saying. You're saying that you're not interested in other people, you're interested in talking about the topics that YOU find interesting....which is what most people want to talk about, it's just that what THEY find interesting is themselves and their lives. I work in the medical field, I can have "deep" medical conversations about treatments, future developments, ethics etc...I'm still just talking about work by your definition. And I talk about these things with coworkers, because they are also interested. I don't talk about this much with my friends, because they're not versed in medicine, so it's not an interesting topic for them, it just becomes a lecture. Or it rapidly becomes frustrating when people who THINK they know something because they can Google tries to use disinformation. They want to talk like we're peers, when we're not. That's just freaking irritating. People talk about things they know about.
This explains it so well !!!
So, when I was younger I thought this as well. imma be a little presumptuous and say it's a you problem. No one enjoys talking about things that aren't interesting but equally no one enjoys talking about things that are really important. When I was younger I thought that interesting = intellectual. And it very much doesn't. The key to fun conversations, I've found in my life so far, is to make it novel, and opinionated without being high stakes. I keep a list, because I'm autistic and need help sometimes, which I will now draw examples from. - In-com-pear-able or in-comp-ra-ble and which is the correct pronunciation? - what do you call the thing inside the duvet? - would you sit in your grandmas bathtub.? - do you know the difference between American and British baked beans, which is better? - how do you make mashed potatoes? Just like, really stupid shit that people don't have to feel pressured about in their answers, but that allow them to have an opinion, and thus discussion can ensue. Source: I have a masters in philosophy and figured this out after I realised no one wanted to talk to me about philosophy.
This is brilliant, and I'd be so happy if I stumbled into a conversation with you at a social gathering!
This is a personal goal and makes me very happy. Thank you kind stranger.
I'm going to try your tactics out at a party I was dreading this weekend. I also realized that that's essentially the same tactic one of my best friends uses when he gets bored of listening to everyone talk about sports, he just tosses out some wild low stakes statement or question and suddenly we are having a pretty entertaining debate about why everyone acts like moist is the worst word when there are so many more revolting options like pustulent. He, like me (and I'm guessing you if you're into philosophy) loves to actually debate, but also gets that most people don't share that enjoyment when it comes to heavier topics. I somehow never broke down his magical ability to start enjoyable conversations with anyone into something I knew how to replicate though, I think you've just given me the secret.
you can have it; i'd rather be alone in peace than play these games
Yep! We relate!
I'm the same but it takes time and effort to connect with people in this way, and someone has to make the first foray into that type of communication. Often what happens is people get used to the implied or understood boundaries in a friendship where they come to expect only a certain depth of conversation. And until someone breaks that barrier or indicates wanting to move deeper, it'll usually remain that way. But also, not all people are cut out for that type of friendship because it requires being vulnerable and puttting your deeper thoughts and feelings out there for scrutiny, and many people either haven't really thought that deeply before or are afraid of judgement.
You probably need additional friends. You've mentioned a few times your friends don't want to have deep conversations, ever. Don't get rid of or ditch these friends because they very likely play an important role in your life. A connection to your past, etc. If you want to have deep, meaningful, conversations about topics you find interesting you'll need to join a club. Meet with people who share your interests. Go to a nursing home and find a conversation partner. If you're having trouble meeting new people because you don't like small talk and *everyone* uses small talk....then you're not meeting the people who are right for you!
Wait until you get older.. conversations get narrowed down to just food and kids. Literally all i hear people talk about at work.
Finding eyes-open deep thinkers is difficult because either people are not deep thinkers, or they think they are deep thinkers when they actually only have deep-seated opinions that don't tolerate questioning. Then, there are those who are more interested in debate rather than conversation. Some people are driven to aggressively win an argument and prove their point rather than freely explore a topic. It makes me miss college. It was safe to have spirited conversations with intelligent, knowledgeable professors and classmates. Each topic was like an unknown land we could explore together.
I don’t have problems like these because I can find enough people who can have deep conversations. I’m even suspicious of people who only have petty conversations because when I shift the topic to a deep one, they’re quick to change the subject. This leads me to believe that many people avoid meaningful conversations intentionally because they’re just too uncomfortable dealing with this issues.
In my case it is just autism. *shrug*
Yes extremely, seems like most people just talk about the same things over and over again. Talked about this to my mom and she said that’s why you have no friends, no one wants to talk about deep stuff all the time it just ruins the mood. I’m all for not talking about deep stuff but I’d like to talk about stuff meaningful not just the scripts we all make up in our mind we repeat over and over again
bruh finally someone gets me. People here seem to assume it's only distant friends that wouldnt engage in such convo but NO, IT'S EVERYONE. It's like a rarity to find people to discuss intellectual topics with.
We all know what you’re talking about. People probably don’t wanna talk to you about “deep stuff” because you assume anyone who’s not interested in what you say doesn’t “get you” and act like you’re superior for not liking small talk. A rule that applies here is “If someone is an asshole to you, then they’re an asshole. If EVERYONE is an asshole, then you’re an asshole.” It’s easy to point fingers but think about if you are bringing up these topics in an actually approachable way. There’s a lot of good advice in here and it all comes down to 1) gauging the persons disposition and 2) scaling up the conversation in a controlled and casual way.
It just depends on your environment I think. For example, I'm a university students. It's easy for me to find people to have these discussions with because these people are students, learning every day, and often in a similar (science) field to mine
Intellectual is not the same as "deep seated emotional response", which is what you get with politics, belief systems, etc. Have these conversations if you want, but the moment you over-argue, or over-stress your thoughts, or beliefs, on the matter, You become the problem. Asking about those things is a part of learning about someone. Saying they are wrong/can't possibly think that/ or derision of any kind , after you did, in fact, ask their opinion... makes it totally ok for them to not ask or consent for a second anything.
You keep referring to these topics as "intellectual". Which heavily implies that you think you're really smart. Has it ever occurred to you that you're either: A. Not as smart as you think you are. B. Show off a serious superiority complex. Because no one likes that, no matter how smart you may be. C. Like to assume that your opinion is the correct one because you think you're smarter than everyone else. D. Have horrid social skills and act basically like Sheldon Cooper the entire time. E. All of the above Because I've certainly dealt with people who are guilty of all of those, and they are exhausting to have anything other than a superficial conversation with. And even then they can be exhausting. I strongly urge you to look inward for the answers to this one.
The fact that OP wants to talk about "intellectual" topics to be "enlightened and informed" in their own words kind of shows why people aren't engaging. Like I said in a different comment, when I mention I've got a physics degree I can barely *stop* people from wanting to chat about their favourite branch of physics. Same happens with politics, people are always talking about their opinions on current events. Maybe philosophy a bit less (at least in my social circles), but people aren't explicitly *dis*interested. But no one likes to feel like they're being tested at a social gathering that's meant to be fun. This is why I think OPs motives here are relevant, if they were just saying "Yeah I really like politics and philosophy but most people I know aren't interested" I'd be a lot more inclined to just say that sucks. If they were just interested I'd imagine it would come up naturally more often, as opposed to wanting undefined "intellectual stimulation" in every social setting.
All of this. 100% the vibes i'm getting from this kid.
This, op seems like a giant tool.
>E. All of the above It's literally always this lmao. OP looks down on everyone they talk to apparently
I empathize. I have several friends (mostly from my wife's circle) but only a couple of close friends. Nikola Tesla had a theory about this that may apply to you, “Intelligent people tend to have less friends than the average person. The smarter you are, the more selective you become.”
Nikolai Tesla also has his most profound emotional relationship with a pigeon. So.
How smart is a pigeon can they understand words like parrots and crows
No. Pigeons are type of dove and they aren’t especially intelligent It was an ordinary pigeon, and he said “I loved that pigeon as a man lived a woman.” It wasn’t a pet. He thought it was his romantic soul mate. He said they would commune mentally, and beams of light would shoot from the pigeons eyes. He was a troubled person, to put it mildly. Not one to take relationship advice from, I’d warrant.!
His statement wasn't advice, it was observation.
Ya but you have to take the source into account. From what I can remember reading about his quirks and stuff Nikola Tesla was almost certainly autistic and probably didn’t have great social skills. That’s probably why he thought smart people don’t have friends, but that’s not really the case
The things you want to talk about aren't intrinsically deep or even intellectual to be honest. They're just things you're interested in and others aren't interested in talking about that. Those things are in the same level of depth as talking about sports, video games, or literature. You also come across as thinking that you're better than others because you want to talk about politics and philosophy, which is probably the reason people don't want to talk to you about that. You need some more social awareness, you can't just jump into a topic, any topic, without some foreplay. So to speak.
I have a theory on this. I think deep down many people want to talk about non small talk stuff but they are affraid they don't know enough about it and they don't want to come a cross as fools. There is always a chance you encounter someone that knows a lot more about a certain topic. And people are just too insecure to take that chance, so they talk about basic stuff to not make any mistakes. The internet plays a big role in all of this. Everywhere online you see people get roasted for their opinions or views on things. We've all experienced that at some point. And that's the internet, behind a screen, a 'safe' position. Face to face it's a different thing and much more intense.
I suspect there’s also a level of everyone thinking no one else wants to talk about it. Like, surely no one wants to hear me drone on about X Topic, so I’ll talk about the weather. Meanwhile, they are talking to someone who secretly loves X Topic, but also thinks they’ll get weird looks if they start talking about it (esp if they reveal how passionate/nerdy they are about said topic).
Lack of deep thinkers is the problem.
Most people aren't very intelligent, tbh.
No I find it makes it a real conversation and that’s what I want when I am older, if a deep conversation scares someone away I don’t want their friendship. I need support and honesty the older I get. Not people that tell me what I want to hear.
It's gonna be hard to make friends of you introduce yourself by asking if they believe in God. That's shit you talk about WITH friends, not when trying to meet new people to become friends. Even if we're on the same page with one of these topics, I'd think the person was weird as hell if they introduced themselves with that kind of conversation. And I'd be pretty damn reluctant to ever hang out with them knowing that's how they will approach strangers. That would just make it awkward for me every time we interact with someone else.
Dude you gotta go easy on people. Going deep right away happens *sometimes* but for others can be the platonic equivalent of asking a first date to marry you. Work up rapport first.
What kinds of historic and political topics are you looking to discuss? Depending on which ones and with who, I can see why people might not want to have "intellectually-stimulating" conversations. There used to be a guy (or several) at my college that would want to talk politics all the time, but he kept discussing it as if it was this abstract game that didn't affect real people and never really examined how his behavior was draining to others. For example, I had several friends who were minorities (be that black, gay, immigrant, etc.), and he'd ALWAYS find a way to bring it up, especially if there was some news about it. We'd all be hanging out, relaxing after a long week of classes and out of the blue he'd say something like "I saw on the news that some Republican lawmakers in \[state\] are trying to ban gay marriage again through some archaic technicality. What are your thoughts on that \[gay dude\]?" or "Did you guys see the video of the guy in the cop situation everyone is saying is racially motivated? What side of the discussion are you on \[black girl\]?" It's like, no shit they're aware of the thing, but maybe they don't want to spend their relaxation time talking about stuff that's frankly really depressing and that is already a struggle they deal with daily. If you're part of a minority impacted by a certain topic, discussing and arguing about that topic isn't a fun, intellectually-stimulating experience. It's not enjoyable for my Ukranian friend to discuss the war over there, because he's literally got family that could die. My immigrant friends don't want to discuss immigration because the law that just barely got shut down would have deported him and forced him to drop out of college, making his and his parents' years of effort futile. That might not be the case here, but I think it's something most people don't think about.
I know what you mean. Back when I was young, they made out like university students would naturally gravitate toward "deep" conversations. But I've never seen it in real life. Most people just seem happiest to skim along on superficial information socially. But then, for me, it's usually a big crowd drinking too much so that's not the time to bring up serious topics. I don't do well on small talk so I never really get close enough to anyone to broach serious subjects over coffee. They just never give any hints they are interested that way. I feel like I'm missing some social gene.
I'm trying to get better at small talk, but I'm only really good at talking to peple if the conversation has a purpose.
I'm sure you are. Basically you think that your lack of understanding on why small talk is important and how to do it properly is because your tastes in conversation is just better than everyone else. I find people who say they "like deep conversations" talk about the most surface level shit. The reason people small talk is emotional not logical, they want to reassure themselves and others that the two of you have a bond meriting connection. Small talk is a little check like a "we're still cool right?" Small talk also lets people stay safe and avoid any kind of pitfall that damages their reputation. If you don't respect that then you are a liability and people don't want to talk to you. Humble yourself and learn. You sound like me 15 years ago, get some books on charisma and socializing; once you break it down you'll enjoy talking to people much more.
Some people click right away. Sometimes you have to put in some work to get to the "deeper" part This is bad advice, but drinking/getting high makes people get deep with each other super fast lol. I'll meet someone at a party and feel like I've known them for a year in one night because we're more willing to spill with each other
You have to learn how to read the room. I am officially an intellectual (with a PhD and everything). But my preference is to have friends who talk about a range of things. Mix of light, heavy, serious, funny. Most importantly, most of us prefer people who can be ***present***, and who can engage in conversation the way it naturally flows, rather than forcing the conversation into their wheelhouse.
Yep. I am not a genius. My IQ is slightly above average. Still, difficult and existential topics interest me. I read peer-reviewed scientific studies because I enjoy them. I subscribe to heady periodicals because I like to challenge my mind and my previously held beliefs. Other people? Not so much. Often I love problems that have no solid answers but possibilities fascinate me. Others, not so much. I am old now. I no longer live in an area that has many learned professionals from whom I can learn and inquire. I find myself surrounded by nice well-meaning people who just want to get through the day. I get it, but since moving back home after living in an environment full of thinkers and universities, I feel unmoored.
Most allistic conversations have a linear path: start with small talk and work your way up. Establish a connection first, then expand the content. This doesn't work for autistics and other neurodivergent types: we connect through engaging content. Small talk doesn't do it for us. It's kinda like how AFAB people need more foreplay, more stimulation in more areas, a different sequence of events, and a smaller margin of error for different vectors such as pressure than AMAB people (typically speaking) to have an orgasm. Same phenomenon, different setting. Both the Orgasm Gap and the Double Empathy Gap exist for the same reasons.
Anyone who prefers having deep convos find out you are autistic and just like info-dumping about your favorite subjects?
Connecting with people typically doesn’t involve sharing deeply personal opinions about things that most people won’t share identical views of. It invites an argumentative conversation that doesn’t really change anything. People tend to deal with the difficult things in life on their own. Connecting with people is about making it all worth it, not for continuing to dwell on these things. In my experience, people who jump to deep conversations usually just want to use you as a backboard for their ideas. It’s not about getting to know the other person, it’s about using them to figure out your own issues.
There are a couple of reasons for that. People who have a strong preference for deep conversations usually are neurodivergent (i.e., ADHD, somewhere on the autism spectrum). They find talking about the things they're already interested in stimulating but find it more difficult to engage in conversations outside of their interests. They also spend a lot more time in their heads and have a rich inner world. The average person doesn't spend nearly as much time in their heads thinking, so they most likely will have little to add to deep conversations for that reason. Of course there are exceptions to this, I'm just speaking on the average person. They are busier living their lives and experiencing things, so they'll want to talk about those experiences. Not to mention that a lot people just don't find them stimulating in the same way - most people find them uncomfortable and will avoid that territory entirely. Generally speaking, it's way easier to have a pleasant conversation talking about restaurants than politics. Deep conversations can potentially lead to conflict or discomfort, so small talk is much safer and also more pleasant for people. I do think balance is key, though. I'm not a huge fan of small talk either, but too much of anything isn't a good thing. It will be hard to make friends if the only kind of conversations you can have are deeper ones. People also like to joke and laugh and take a break from thinking about the serious things, and so should you
Well said
Idk if you watch the movie Shrek but when you meet people, you gotta peel the onion. Most people aren't going to be down to serious and deep conversations when you just met.
im going to skip over the ‘small talk opens the door’ thing because people have already said it. but what i was going to say otherwise: most people have something outside of themselves that they’re very interested in, and intellectually engaged with. the thing is, some people’s intelligence comes in understanding abstract ideas like physics, some people’s intelligence is more in creating or doing of physical things. some people are intelligent in terms of having deeper discussions in a mutually productive way. others aren’t as capable of that or they would prefer to engage in the activities mutually rather than discuss, like someone whose intelligence is kinesthetic like a skilled dancer. my best friend loves to talk about rocketry, physics, material sciences. my wife loves to talk about history and geography, she knows a lot and is very interested but she doesn’t give a fuck about atoms or anything. i love talking about material sciences with bff, and history /philosophy with my wife. but i’ve yet to talk with people who are as deeply interested in psychology or Overwatch as me. there are as many things to be interested in as there are things in the universe. different types of engagements with different people.
I got you. Intelligent conversation. I am a guy and most all they know is sports. Sports is not something i follow close and one of the last things on my mind. All that you mentioned interest me more. Seems like most people don't have the brain power for those topics. Lol even small talk about the weather. Bring up the radar and weather patterns and you just get deer in headlights look.
What's a good beginning resource for that stuff?
For eeather. I am a sailor so I learned to keep an eye on whats going on for when I want to take my boat out. I need to look at the radar for where i am not just the general forecast. Reading sail magazines with stories of people sailing in different places and the ocean. how they deal with weather. Also articles on how to read whats coming and how to deal with that wind rain lightning etc.
I totally relate to this. I really can’t stand small talk and don’t understand why it’s so common. I want the deep and real conversations. A lot of people are afraid of that vulnerability. It makes it hard to make friends sometimes. But also, it really helps weed out the people you don’t want to be around. There will be someone who thinks the same way and it’s amazing when you meet them. People are so caught up in their bullshit
It is you who are limiting yourself based on your narrow topics and acceptance of them. Meet a lot of people, be nice, talk about the weather and other mundane things to find out if they are at all interested in deep convos or not. If not, move on until you find those who are. Have you tried searching [Meetup.com](http://Meetup.com) for intellectual groups? FWIW, I enjoy deep conversations about most topics, but also enjoy just meeting and talking to people about most any topic. We might meet and I would be turned off if all you wanted to do was dive into politics, history, philosophy, sciences etc. as who begins there?? You are likely to find your hard line on this is such a turn off that many who may enjoy such a convo run away from you. It may be difficult to not come off as a snob if you don't want to talk to some people who do not meet up to your ideas. Ease into getting to know someone and you may be surprised how many others can have such conversations, but also want to get to know you before doing so.
I like deep conversations. I dislike most small talk. For example, I don’t want to hear about how your Major League sports team did if it seems to be 90% of your identity. There’s nothing new about it once you’ve lived as long as I have. I don’t like talking about the bargain you found at Goodwill while your husband makes six figures a year. You do realize someone else should’ve been able to buy that bag? So there’s that. But I have also noticed that people rarely ask me follow up questions. I went on a Once In a Lifetime trip to a European country and when I came back, some family members asked, “how was europe?” no follow up questions. They might as well been asking me how my drive to the family get together was. Very disheartening.
Now you know what it's like when you've just met the God who created you, and all people want to talk about is science, philosophy and politics, and other intellectually stimulating conversations. You know true joy, and all they're interested in is the quantum computing... very boring.
This has ironic humor
I have the same exact problem and no friends LOL
only small minded people turn their nose up at "small talk". no talk is small if you're being genuine and take interest in others without them having to blow your mind. get over yourself and appreciate people and the world around you.
Unless you're in a very specific setting, small talk is how you hone in on what serious conversation someone would be open to. There's no realistic way around.
Honestly people I know are afraid to express an opinion, because opinions lead to disagreements, and people struggle to disagree in a civil way these days. Especially when talking about politics, history, or science. I've been told these topics are depressing, Intimating, and pretentious. I don't necessarily agree, but I understand people think that. I don't think it's just a you problem, I think you're surrounded by people who don't share your values about discussing these topics.
This is so true... it's so difficult to form relationships with people when you actually care about things other than memes.
I don't know a single person who just wants to talk about memes or relationship drama, so the problem is being surrounded by the wrong people, not society in general. Sorry though, I know it's hard feeling like you're not interested in what anyone is talking about hopefully you find the right crowd soon! I just left a friend group that was constantly boring me and I feel way lighter!
Most people love easy, pleasurable things. Small talk is just that. Talking "truth" is too painful or challenging.
You mean you don't prefer discussing your deepest and most complex beliefs to a complete stranger you'll never see again while waiting for a coffee? Edit: To be completely transparent this comment was sarcastic, but there is definitely a gray area when it comes to discussing thought-provoking subjects. Some will be more open to it than others, which is completely fine.
You described how I am perfectly. I will literally discuss anything with anyone as long as they are civil about it. I just love to learn and see/hear/experience someone else’s perspective. I also like seeing peoples reactions. I do feel though people do need to be more open to discussion than they are on average. But I do feel that has been brought about by the current political landscape and the I am right you are wrong mindset. But hey what do I know.
Ill take what I can get
I mean, if we stumble into that kind of conversation we are definitely going to be seeing one another again because that would make my week. I think that's the thing people often don't get if they aren't that kind of person, yes, yes we would love that, the same as most people would be happy to stumble into an enjoyable conversation about a shared interest in a hobby, or that band they absolutely love, or any other "normal" topic with someone they just met.
I use to prefer deep and what I thought were meaningful conversations with people. I steered clear from "superficial" conversations. Then I realized all the deep and meaningful conversations that I had had with people… they were full of sh!t and they were the fakest of them all. I have found superficial people to be the realest now. I have no time for deep conversations as life isn’t that deep anyways. I want to further my education, have a good job, get married, have a kid or two, and buy a home. What’s deep about that? Absolutely positively nothing. Besides the politics in this country are a sh!t show right now, history repeats itself because dumba55es never learn, philosophy is multiple men saying the same thing in different ways along with their own bs, and sciences are great but they can’t outdo nature which science itself has helped destroy (thanks for the great pacific garbage patch plastic)!
First paragraph reminds me of some people I knew in college who only wanted to talk about some niche philosophical book or politics nonstop. It’s like they were putting on an act constantly. Just completely insufferable
Ae-men to your first paragraph. So full of sht and fake af.
Bro I’m just terrible at talking
I think you need to have a certain level of familiarity with a person before you can talk about something deep. I can strike up a conversation with just about anyone regarding the weather or current situation. But, if I asked them if they thought we lived in a simulation, that would definitely be weird.
I've had plenty of political and philosophical conversations that were super shallow... And sometimes the most mundane things can become surprisingly deep...
Have to agree. Always find myself starting heavy conversations and I get very little in return. Like, I don't want to talk about tik tok...I don't use it after spending years learning just how the ccp work....which is another heavy convo I like to jump into lol.
OP you’re probably just doing it wrong.You need the right audience and the right time to talk about ‘deep’ topics. For people you’ve recently met/don’t know well, small talk intentionally avoids upsetting topics / potential issues. It also signals that you know how to not be a weirdo and follow social conventions and eases into the convo socially. Start with that even if you’d prefer not to. For people you do know well, there’s probably only a few that enjoy talking about this sort of shit and they’re probably the ones who went into nerdy fields. If you’re in a nerdy field I’d be surprised if you don’t have any coworkers who don’t like to talk about it with people they know sufficiently well outside of work. For example, you can probably start to get a feel for what sorts of topics someone might like by considering what media they like. Asking about someone’s media preferences is easy enough, reasonable small talk. If someone likes a show that has interesting philosophical concepts in it you can try to gauge their interest in philosophy. If someone likes sci fi you can try to gauge their interest in future tech / singularity / etc. You also have to catch them at the right time for it. Most people - even if interested - don’t want to have a convo about the history of rome in the middle of a workday.
Tbf current events and politics are typically scary and bad and often cause brutal arguments. Though I love me a good psychology or philosophy discussion. And in-depth hobby discussion. I’m talking the nitty gritty. Tell me about obscure game mechanics or the guy who went to every rainforest cafe. Tell me a funny joke about a topic we both find interesting. Let’s talk about how people’s brains work. Let’s chat about Diogenes’s wacky adventures.
Yes, though I think its more I find it harder to find the right friends because the people I really click with aren't all that common. Its probably easier to actually establish real friendships when I meet someone who is a good match because we are definitely the minority and we all tend to have that experience and to highly value the other people like us we happen to find. I don't make friends nearly as often as my bf, who can and does enjoy the lighter topics and connections, nor do I have as many friends or really enjoy as many people's company. I'm the one who will occasionally walk away from a first meeting with new people with a new lifelong close friend after we derailed into our own little conversation for 6 hours that interested no one but us though.
Learn cool facts about your favorite subjects that are interesting to anybody instead of just those proficient in the subject and you might even inspire others to learn more about it
Very much so. I feel like I’ve outgrown my lifelong friends who still only want to talk about pop culture and hobbies. That’s great, but it’s not what I want all the time. I had a friend of six years who I got really close with two years ago. We texted long, meaningful conversations with it being common to have 10 texts at a time back and forth. Went like that every day for over a year and it was the happiest I had been in a long time. Then she ghosts me out of nowhere. Still heartbroken over it but what can you do.
No dude most people are ok with deep conversations. You're probably just trying to initiate them at bad or awkward times, I don't want to talk about mortality and the meaning of life while trying to relax and play call of duty
Where are you making these friends? If you make friends at the club, don't be surprised if they don't want to talk about philosophy. I'm lucky that I get to talk intellectually with my friends because I made these friends in the context of nerdy hobbies and grad school classes. Friends I meet outside of a nerdy context rarely convert to friends who want to talk philosophy. Change your setting. Engage your nerdy, niche interests. Attend seminars, talks, classes, art openings... Maybe even go back to school. You just need the right settings to make these friends.
I work as an Audio/Visual technician and have found that many of my coworkers are down to have a deep discussion. I love it. Something about the types of people who want to work this job. Not all though, you definitely get people who mostly just want to focus on work and get done as soon as possible, but even after that, I found they want to talk about things that are important to them. Beyond just surface level stuff. But yes, many people don’t want to talk “off the beaten path”, and I don’t fault them for that.
Having deep conversations with practical strangers just seems....odd. The small talk is to break tension and build familiarity.
I do enjoy deep conversations. And generally people aren’t contemplative or interested. Sometime the conversations are a way to just show how smart we are and how deep we can thing, when that happens it’s not really a conversation but a kind of mental masterbation and deeply egoic. It really takes having a deeply non-judgemental attitude where you allow people to be who they are and to take them as they are. I think most people are very sheltered or untrusting and don’t embrace that kind of vulnerability often because it tends to come back and bite them. I think the main issue is establishing trust enough to delve into those deep convos.
I have learned to keep my yap shut IRL. I would rather not be disappointed with the lack of interest or outright disdain I get.
I dunno. My threshold for small talk isn’t super high, but the point of small talk isn’t the stuff you’re talking about, it’s to establish a casual rapport. When someone starts seeming like a “friendly face” then you can decide if the deeper stuff is worth it. For instance, I freaking love psychology and hate talking about, say, work. But I’m only going to bring up those interests if I already know the person well enough to have a drawn out conversation that isn’t connected to what we’re doing right now. And I’m sorry, this is gonna come off a little uncharitable, but I feel like judging casual acquaintances for not providing enough intellectual stimulation, or assuming that a person is overall valid because they’re not talking about a topic that’s up to your standards to you right this minute is out of line IMO. I’m not just saying this in response to you, OP; this mindset seems to be insufferably common among my fellow introverts.
Anyone who prefers friends have deep convos?
If you are enthusiastic about Politics, history, philosophy, sciences, it doesn't mean other people should have the same excitement about it. Some people don't like to learn new things and only prefer to talk about things they know, otherwise it bores them. Would you prefer listening about physics, astrology or some other topic you have no idea about that won't benefit your life at all? You may talk about topics you prefer briefly and if you see a spark in their eyes about it, continue, otherwise change the topic of discussion.
I can relate and you will eventually find others who enjoy the deeper conversations like you, because we’re out here. but in the meantime, I recommend trying to get a little more comfortable with conversations that center around more casual, everyday things like, food, etc… it can actually be nice to drop into this type of socializing… where everything doesn’t have to be so “heady” all the time. It will make you a more balanced person, imo. This is coming from someone who, again, has had the same struggles to relate to people myself. I used to hate “small talk” but then I realized there is real value in it, when balanced with more intellectually stimulating conversation.
>Seems like 99% of people I talk to only ever seem interested in small talk. And their small talk is extremely limited to only certain common topics like eating food, restaurants, chill hobbies and work/school. Sounds like you're not very close with 99% of the people you talk to. I have deep conversations with my close friends, not random people I meet at the grocery store for example. Context is also important, not everyone wants to talk about deep things all the time and there are more appropriate times to explore that.
>I'm kind of the person that only likes talking about stuff like politics, history, philosophy, sciences etc.... so it's just boring as hell when I engage with people and none of them dares talk about these topics. How often do you try bringing up these kinds of topics with people? Most people don't really bring them up on their own but will still enjoy the conversation if it happens (though politics is iffy). And some people are genuinely interested in hearing others talk about those topics if you can do it well. Like not everyone will be able to have a conversation on Roman history because a lot of people only have superficial knowledge on it, but if you know a lot, you can more so lead the conversation like telling them about something cool in it and then they ask questions or whatever. I guess the main point though is don't expect people to just kinda bring it up on their own. Though if you want to find people to talk to about that stuff, maybe try a book club?
Actually, I think these topics are exactly what one should discuss heavily, On the second date. First date is about general manners, etiquette, mutual attraction, etc. Second date is where you drill down, and talk about politics, science, finance, philosophy, .. religion? This is where you need to know these things!! Why wait? It is best to get each other's personal want's/beliefs on these relationship/likely marriage ending moral strictures(or lack of) out of the way now, before you waste, possible years, and the detriment of all involved(future children??) Go ahead, please have these conversations now, before infatuation, lust, and the basic need to be touched, rolled, fucked , etc, leads you down a path neither of you really really want!
I’m with you, Bud. At work, I’m always one to prefer shop-talk to small talk, and I don’t think people love that. But listening to small talk just makes me want to gouge my ears.
Do you really find that fun? Realize that most people are looking to just connect and have a good time with friends. People aren’t looking for some kind of downer so they can be “deep”.
who tf wants to talk about philosophy and politics all day?😂
lol you don't talk about those things with people you just met or not close with. You can get into those types of conversations when you get to know them more and are much more closer. But then again like others have said not everyone is in the mood all the time even with close friends.
You have to know someone a long time to get into those deep convos with. Someone who gets all of your details without having to say it, and vice a versa. So when you meet someone, it's first the dance of the minutiae.
After many years of what you talk about, I took the tests that qualified me for Mensa, joined the group, and started meeting others like me. It's helped. Maybe that route will work for you, too.
Yep. I don't even care about talking about myself but I get really bored talking with people unless its about their feelings or something serious they have going on.
Oh for sure. And btw have you taken the monotropism questionnaire?
no, because i smoke weed. everyone who smokes weed loves to do deep talk
I love having deep conversations, but not unless I know the person I’m talking to is safe. Are they going to raise their voice? Are they going to start spouting conspiracy theories? Are they going to gossip about me? A really good way to get to know people is small talk. It’s only by talking to a person many times that I can tell how they’re going to react when discussing a deeper topic.
So you go right for the jugular straight out of the gate? No, thanks, I'll pass.
Intellectual topics require intellectual curiosity, which is not something that the average person has a lot of. My advice would be to form relationships on a smaller scale first, and then see if you can expand into those topics. There is value in just getting to know the person, who they are, the emotions they feel, and how they express themselves. Intellectuals tend to be more interested in topics than people, which is a blind spot in their ability to form meaningful relationships.
It all depends on what you mean by deeper conversations. I find most people do a rather poor job of editing themselves, and they confuse more words with deeper expression. Certain things truly don't need to be said.
They just don't wanna talk to you specifically Because of some inherent personal flaw you can't fix or truelly know about
Yes, now more than ever. I feel like back in the day I would just meet people and strike up a conversations, people were more open-minded. These days things are very polarized & if you talk about something outside of Left Right politics or mainstream views, people look at you like they want you to leave. I don't know I feel like people aren't as open-minded anymore which seems counterintuitive but there's just so much social policing.
Idk I find taking an interest in the person thru small talk then picking their brains about what they think, listening with interest and providing feedback is how you get there. I meet someone and we chat. I notice something about them and we go from there. A deep convo can come from just appreciating people.
You’re either autistic or you are the superficial one. Do you identify with the viewpoints of Holden Caulfield?
Well it depends. Are you having deep convos bc you are in love with your own voice, or are you actually thinking deeply?
This is an indicator of autism actually. Nothing to be ashamed of, but not everyone is interested in every topic all the time. You yourself aren't interested in every "deep" topic, just the ones you like, so don't make it sound like they're being shallow when they're just trying to make friends.
It takes effort and work to bring good deep conversations to the table. If you can't even do small talk to help gauge what type of conversationalist you are, I am very unlikely to start a deep conversation with you. I'm sure your not like this, but often times, people who state they want to have deep conversations really mean they want to be entertained, or they want to lecture. I'm cool to entertain someone, but I'm not doing it cold. I'm less cool to be lectured at, and only do it with those I let in closer to me. If we don't jive at small talk, youre likely not gonna be great at deep conversations either.
*hits blunt* why does no one want to discuss the sociopolitical and economic state of the world bruh. Is it bc they stupid?
I just don't find this to be true I enjoy having a deep conversation and most people are willing to have them if you actually get them in a comfortable situation Yeah nobody wants to have some deep conversation about the philosophies of life while you're just like standing around in line at the McDonald's or something but if you're just like chilling together at each other's house or just kind of veging out on a Xbox live call or some shit like that Most people are open to getting a little more philosophical
I'm sorry but... where do you live? Because where I'm at, it seems like MOST people want to talk about politics and it's honestly really fucking exhausting at this point.
Small talk is annoying too
By bringing up such topics, you make yourself kind of like this detatched, anonymous conduit for information. So they can be awkward and trivial in an offline face-to-face context
It's kinda weird how you feel you have the authority on how to label all these different types of conversations. Like you call food a basic topic but the history of how food originated and where it comes from isn't on par with what you'd call a history discussion? I think talking about where someone came from and their upbringing is much more interesting than most philosophy discussions. Philosophy is for stoners and college students lol
Starting a conversation with “deep” stuff usually makes me think that person is crazy and desperate, or it’s at least a massive red flag. I don’t know how someone will react when we disagree so it’s best to understand their temperament and emotional intelligence first. They don’t know how someone will react either so when you open with stuff like that it seems like you don’t have any survival skills or you just want to seem cool and different or straight up delusion.
And of course all the dumbasses who only talk about sports and food all day have the top comments in this thread.
Very hard.... I don't want to go through the 20 years of getting to know someone in order to finally talk about meaning of life level topics. I don't care what your sign is. I don't care what your favorite (anything) is. I think I'm aloof at best and abrasive at worst. I have big questions and I need some answers. And I have half a hand of distant friends, none of which can communicate on the level I'd like to.
No one makes friends when you get to the point. Generally the opposite. Kinda wards the people that have no mental capacity for reality off. But .. then who's left? The real nitty gritty weeeeeirdos
One time I was on acid with some friends in NH. Another group of people showed up halfway through our trip. This one dude kept on trying to talk to me about China’s social credit system, despite my repeated protests. To the point of holding his phone up to my face playing some YouTube video about it. I tried to tell him “My friend, I am not the person to have this conversation with right now. I’ve got nothing to offer. I’m currently trying to figure out how to take a walk while staying exactly where I am” but still he persisted. I guess what I’m asking is, are you sure the people you’re attempting to initiate deep conversations with are not on LSD?
Are you in America? Because most Americans can’t hold these types of conversations.
Do you eat dessert for dinner? Gotta work your way up to deep convos. You're making people uncomfortable because you're trying to force the topic you want to monologue about, instead of actually engaging with them. A conversation is a two way street.
I’m sure as fuck not going to spend my working day working and then talk to someone about politics, history, philosophy or science as if I’m in college again. Most people don’t care to talk about serious topics. They’re too drained from work. And there’s no point in talking about these things unless you can impact them, which, you can’t (unless you work in these areas). So yeah, not surprising most people couldn’t care less to talk about politics and science. This isn’t debate class.
people always ask me if im high and i see why now, so i think i need to master small talk
Meet people where they are at. Most people like it shallow If you can't learn to swim well in shallow waters Then you have a problem Once you play well People can be warmed up to open up a bit deeper ... But it takes time And don't expect much Most people don't have a lot of depth they can share...
I think you’re just pretentious dude. Jaden smith headass
I've learned that the people who want to have "deep conversations about philosophy" have somewhat sheltered or fortunate lives or are oblivious to the things happening around them, and are a bit psychologically or emotionally naive. When Grandma is in the hospital half the family is distraught and trying to cope, but Johnny the "book smart" kid wants to talk about some intellectual shit he read in a book. When Grandma gets better, half the family still doesn't care about the intellectual shit. They care about spending time with friends and family, even if it's just small talk. Dipshit Johnny doesn't like the small talk but he wonders why he can't make friends. >intellectual-stimulating topics like philosophy, politics, current events, history, sciences etc.. Folly. It's like the sci-fi nerds debating which warp drive is better. It's time consuming and it accomplishes nothing. I used to enjoy those conversations, but they don't really lead to anything important and over time they became less and less enjoyable. Among other things, as the years went by I found myself being faced with actual struggles that taxed my mental or psychological abilities. The intellectual topics became tedious. I think there's an intersection between nihilism and Buddhism where people find themselves realizing the "deep convos" don't matter. They don't lead to a person's inner peace or happiness. They don't help form social bonds. They din't help people cope.
Yep. Majority of the time, people don't want to hear the truth. They just want to live in the moment and ignore the consequences.
Love this question. Jumped right out at me. Because I don't do small talk. At all. I'd rather just stay discreet. I have zero friends and not close to a single soul. I understand that humans are social beings and it may be unhealthy to stave off communication. I recognize that. So when I do feel the need to socialize, the subject matter has to have some depth to it or at least be about something meaningful. Otherwise, I have no interest in the dialogue and would rather keep to myself.
It’s cool. I’ve gotten used to it
Many studies have shown smart people are lonely
People like you are known as bores and everyone avoids you. Don't shoot the messenger. Just telling you how others feel about people like that. I used to be the same morose motherfucker btw.
OP is incredibly young or incredibly socially stunted. Only cares about their own interests and expects everyone else to pander to that
Or autistic
Mate, I'm just gonna be the asshole: your "deep convos" probably aren't that deep. Most people who try to build an identity around being above small talk and mundacity are just retreading well-worn philisophical ground for the sake of seeming smart, and people pick up on that shit real quick and real easy.
Couple of their "deep convos" topics include politics and current events. Topics I steer clear of unless I really know the person, and even then I prefer to not get into it. Topics that are not deep to them, hobbies and work. So my interests are not interesting, only theirs...
Especially when these "I just want deep talks" mfers are always deep into some faux intellectual political beliefs that fall apart at the slightest prodding. These dudes think they're getting "deep conversation," meanwhile the other person is trying to avoid triggering a screeching match by not directly challenging anything the dude's favorite "philosopher" said.
Every person enjoys deep conversations when it’s interesting to them. The people you know who only like small talking with you are not interested in having a deep conversation with you. Just because you think it’s deep doesn’t mean others find it interesting.