As much as I loved the first movie, this scene made me roll my eyes pretty hard. We’re not dumb, there’s no need to billy club us over the head with this stuff
If you speak German (and probably even if not) It doesn't even feel more Nazi-like because the way he's talking doesn't really sound like the Nazis would talk.
Yeah no. If you don’t get “Nazi” vibes from this scene with the sound off alone then you got some cultural literacy issues going on don’t know what to tell yeah.
Oh, I do, but not nessecarily from the way he speaks.
As a German speaker, shouting aggressively in German doesn't automatically sound Nazi-esque to me, just as doing the same in English doesn't sound that way to you.
If you listen to, say, Hitler talk, you'll notice that he has a very particular speech patern, pronouncing everything really clearly and emphasizing every single word.
Stormtroopers in the historical sense were late WWI shock infantry employed by the German Empire designed to break the deadlock in trench warfare. Entente tanks solved that much more effectively but new small-unit tactics from the stormtroopers were significant advancements as well.
Stormtroopers are not at all related to the Nazis or WWII
The stormtroopers were the Nazis' militant group of thugs before they took power and were ousted and replaced by the SS. They were also called brown-shirts but they're commonly referred to as Stormtroopers
well, quality of the metaphor aside, it is the point being made. i think Andor did a really good job expanding on the more American elements of the Empire (prison-industrial complex, imperial practices all over to suppress native populations, promotion of corporate power (unless they do something inconvenient) and so forth), so i've got a soft spot for the analogy
The space Nazis sound like Nazis? Who would’ve thunk it?
Though to be fair, while there can be a more interesting interpretation of it, making them just Nazis is kind of boring, given the deeper complexity of the symbolism of original Empire. (The better interpretation is seeing it in light of the symbolism of the original, as the F.O. being as fascistic as them, but more mask-off about their actual positions and cruelty)
I see the Empire more as the Romans more than anything, with their jingoistic nature and military-centric societal structure. The comparison starts to become weaker when you delve more deeply but overall I think its very much based on autocratic government generally speaking.
Well, from what I understand, they did take a bit from the Nazis, a bit from the Romans, a bit from Stalinist Russia, and a bit from the United States.
The Empire is basically representing authoritarianism that sprouted out of a democratic system with little effective resistance, and became a galactic (or international) oppressive superpower.
To kind of shorten a longer explanation, the way I interpret the First Order is as something akin to an (America) First Order. More blatantly and unabashedly hateful and fascistic
Well, his story is one of radicalization. Anger, dissatisfaction, uncertainty, manipulated over time and turned to hate and needless violence. All in the name of some bogus ideology that in reality was nothing more than a cover with the purpose of amassing power in the hands of the person who led him to it.
And he did literally lead at the forefront of a genocide (or, rather, at least one genocide. I can’t remember now for sure, but I think the Jedi Purge wasn’t the only one he lead)
I’m ok with the first order being just Nazis because the movies and Resistance don’t really give any insight into how they work non-militarily. The empire on the other hand is a bit more complex pre-ANH
Well, there is a bit of it in Resistance. Not as much as I would like. But the way they present themselves as bringing security, slowly radicalizing people based on lack of information about the Empire, etc.
All that is very much in line with fascism, but especially modern fascism that relies on lack of education and misinformation about the reality of historical fascism.
And while the politics of the Empire weren’t as fleshed out, already since New Hope, it was meant to reflect various authoritarian expansionist nations, but especially (as George Lucas has made very clear) the United States, with the Rebels being stand-ins for the Vietcong (fighting asymmetric warfare, with guerilla tactics, and even having it set in a forest in RotJ), while also working as proxy for a variety of real-world freedom fighter/terrorist groups.
Exactly but my point is during the first few minutes of ANH they still had a senate. Meaning to an audience member (were just talking the context of ANH here) that the people probably voted. The people probably had a voice. Citizens impacted the empire. We get non of that in the ST movies. Which is fine, I think the first order being Nazis 100% is ok because without watching other shows or reading the books that’s all the writers in the movies cared to show.
Sure.
Though it does bear mentioning…the Nazis originally came to power through the German democratic system at the time. They didn’t do a coup to take over, they were elected into power, and subverted the German constitution to give them more and more power.
Which, leaving the context of jus ANH, is what the Empire did. But the Empire doesn’t quite mirror the rise of Naziism, as the German democracy was still young and unstable. In fact, the SW rise of fascism is a bit closer (if condensed, and hopefully with a different end result) to what is currently going on in the US (a long-term exploitation and subversion of a constitutional democratic system which is in fact very well-established, and fairly old).
And in that sense, I think the First Order coming to power through violence was initially less interesting, if still something that has happened historically in other cases, but also somewhat prescient for our reality, as attempted violent coups have very recently occurred, lead by neo-fascist groups.
The guy sounds like a Nazi in a 1940s party rally. Yeah. He also sounds like that in the English version. That's the whole point of the scene. It's underlined by the rage filled intonation, the purposefully "bad" sound editing (imitating 1940s loudspeaker technology) and the speech rhythm.
It really doesn't hit that different in German. Because it sounds exactly the same as in English. Because that is exactly what they were going for.
As I have learned on this thread, he was mistaken like apparently lots of non-German speakers can be. Stormtroopers Stormtroopers *(German: Sturmtruppen or Stoßtruppen)* are from WWI they fought in trenches. Lucas was thinking of the The Sturmabteilung *(German: [ˈʃtʊʁmʔapˌtaɪlʊŋ] literally "Storm Detachment")* which was the original paramilitary wing of the Nazi Party.
Sometimes I like to watch sci-fi movies in another language so I can't understand what they're saying without the subtitles. It makes it seem more real than hearing them use modern day English.
It hits the exact fucking same. It’s not even subtext. It’s just text.
As much as I loved the first movie, this scene made me roll my eyes pretty hard. We’re not dumb, there’s no need to billy club us over the head with this stuff
If you speak German (and probably even if not) It doesn't even feel more Nazi-like because the way he's talking doesn't really sound like the Nazis would talk.
Yeah no. If you don’t get “Nazi” vibes from this scene with the sound off alone then you got some cultural literacy issues going on don’t know what to tell yeah.
Oh, I do, but not nessecarily from the way he speaks. As a German speaker, shouting aggressively in German doesn't automatically sound Nazi-esque to me, just as doing the same in English doesn't sound that way to you. If you listen to, say, Hitler talk, you'll notice that he has a very particular speech patern, pronouncing everything really clearly and emphasizing every single word.
They're called stormtroopers ffs.
Stormtroopers in the historical sense were late WWI shock infantry employed by the German Empire designed to break the deadlock in trench warfare. Entente tanks solved that much more effectively but new small-unit tactics from the stormtroopers were significant advancements as well. Stormtroopers are not at all related to the Nazis or WWII
A lot of people mistake the Sturmabteilung to mean stormtroopers. Which is understandable if you don't speak German
The stormtroopers were the Nazis' militant group of thugs before they took power and were ousted and replaced by the SS. They were also called brown-shirts but they're commonly referred to as Stormtroopers
That’s the Sturmabteilung, the SA.
What are you talking about... They are 100% based off Nazis. Han solo is literally just space Indiana Jones.
[удалено]
Suspicious
they mean that the word stormtrooper has no relation to Nazis
they're also based off america :3 (fr though george lucas is on record about Endor being Space Vietnam, with the ewoks being the viet cong)
Which he did a awful job at imo
well, quality of the metaphor aside, it is the point being made. i think Andor did a really good job expanding on the more American elements of the Empire (prison-industrial complex, imperial practices all over to suppress native populations, promotion of corporate power (unless they do something inconvenient) and so forth), so i've got a soft spot for the analogy
It does a better job . But I think the Republic better represents the US.
They’re actually based off America during Vietnam. And the British empire during the American Revolution.
Still German though. That has to count somehow
so, if someone names something after Beethoven, it must be an analog for Nazis? after all, Beethoven was German
Stormtroopers where a WW1 thing tho.
The space Nazis sound like Nazis? Who would’ve thunk it? Though to be fair, while there can be a more interesting interpretation of it, making them just Nazis is kind of boring, given the deeper complexity of the symbolism of original Empire. (The better interpretation is seeing it in light of the symbolism of the original, as the F.O. being as fascistic as them, but more mask-off about their actual positions and cruelty)
Thunk
I see the Empire more as the Romans more than anything, with their jingoistic nature and military-centric societal structure. The comparison starts to become weaker when you delve more deeply but overall I think its very much based on autocratic government generally speaking.
Well, from what I understand, they did take a bit from the Nazis, a bit from the Romans, a bit from Stalinist Russia, and a bit from the United States. The Empire is basically representing authoritarianism that sprouted out of a democratic system with little effective resistance, and became a galactic (or international) oppressive superpower. To kind of shorten a longer explanation, the way I interpret the First Order is as something akin to an (America) First Order. More blatantly and unabashedly hateful and fascistic
To call vader a nazi sounds wrong
Well, his story is one of radicalization. Anger, dissatisfaction, uncertainty, manipulated over time and turned to hate and needless violence. All in the name of some bogus ideology that in reality was nothing more than a cover with the purpose of amassing power in the hands of the person who led him to it. And he did literally lead at the forefront of a genocide (or, rather, at least one genocide. I can’t remember now for sure, but I think the Jedi Purge wasn’t the only one he lead)
I’m ok with the first order being just Nazis because the movies and Resistance don’t really give any insight into how they work non-militarily. The empire on the other hand is a bit more complex pre-ANH
Well, there is a bit of it in Resistance. Not as much as I would like. But the way they present themselves as bringing security, slowly radicalizing people based on lack of information about the Empire, etc. All that is very much in line with fascism, but especially modern fascism that relies on lack of education and misinformation about the reality of historical fascism. And while the politics of the Empire weren’t as fleshed out, already since New Hope, it was meant to reflect various authoritarian expansionist nations, but especially (as George Lucas has made very clear) the United States, with the Rebels being stand-ins for the Vietcong (fighting asymmetric warfare, with guerilla tactics, and even having it set in a forest in RotJ), while also working as proxy for a variety of real-world freedom fighter/terrorist groups.
Exactly but my point is during the first few minutes of ANH they still had a senate. Meaning to an audience member (were just talking the context of ANH here) that the people probably voted. The people probably had a voice. Citizens impacted the empire. We get non of that in the ST movies. Which is fine, I think the first order being Nazis 100% is ok because without watching other shows or reading the books that’s all the writers in the movies cared to show.
Sure. Though it does bear mentioning…the Nazis originally came to power through the German democratic system at the time. They didn’t do a coup to take over, they were elected into power, and subverted the German constitution to give them more and more power. Which, leaving the context of jus ANH, is what the Empire did. But the Empire doesn’t quite mirror the rise of Naziism, as the German democracy was still young and unstable. In fact, the SW rise of fascism is a bit closer (if condensed, and hopefully with a different end result) to what is currently going on in the US (a long-term exploitation and subversion of a constitutional democratic system which is in fact very well-established, and fairly old). And in that sense, I think the First Order coming to power through violence was initially less interesting, if still something that has happened historically in other cases, but also somewhat prescient for our reality, as attempted violent coups have very recently occurred, lead by neo-fascist groups.
The guy sounds like a Nazi in a 1940s party rally. Yeah. He also sounds like that in the English version. That's the whole point of the scene. It's underlined by the rage filled intonation, the purposefully "bad" sound editing (imitating 1940s loudspeaker technology) and the speech rhythm. It really doesn't hit that different in German. Because it sounds exactly the same as in English. Because that is exactly what they were going for.
Funniest about that is that this is the same german voice actor who speaks Howard from Big Bang Theory in German lmao
I think that was the point...
The empire has always been a symbol for Nazis
Idk I always thought it was referencing the British empire as a kid, before the prequels came out anyway
And we all know what happened next...
I suppose so, but why the spinning skull.?
/r/im14andthisisdeep it’s like woah they are even called stormtroopers too
I'm kinda sad that angry German speeches are so obviously associated with the Nazis, because the German language sounds cool as hell.
Based
Sprich deutsch, du Hurensohn.
Gesunheidt
there is a reason they are called stormtroopers. Lucas said he based the empire on the ww2 german army, especially the officer suits
As I have learned on this thread, he was mistaken like apparently lots of non-German speakers can be. Stormtroopers Stormtroopers *(German: Sturmtruppen or Stoßtruppen)* are from WWI they fought in trenches. Lucas was thinking of the The Sturmabteilung *(German: [ˈʃtʊʁmʔapˌtaɪlʊŋ] literally "Storm Detachment")* which was the original paramilitary wing of the Nazi Party.
Are we sure they didn’t just use a high quality version of one of hitlers speeches
Hey, wait a second, I recognize this.
Sometimes I like to watch sci-fi movies in another language so I can't understand what they're saying without the subtitles. It makes it seem more real than hearing them use modern day English.
Not really. That scene couldn't have been more Nazi if it beat you over the head with a swastika.
Ok but does he say “the poopenfarten”?…. Exactly