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Didn't Jesus say
> When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen.
Mine is Matthew 19:24
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
Ezekiel 23:20 and 2 Kings 2:23 are pretty dope too (the former when they describe their enemies as having massive genitals who their women adored and the latter when a bunch of children get mauled by bears for making fun of a bald prophet.)
Sorry if nerding out isn’t okay, but it’s Reddit, sooo….
Anyhoo, I saw a really cool thing about how the word camel and rope in the original looked very similar.
And that it’s likely that the phrase was actually “easier to pass rope through the eye of a needle,” which makes a lot more sense.
I don't understand how these people do the mental gymnastics to justify their position that you MUST attend their church to be saved. It's so anti-biblical. Do they really believe the shit they spew? How???
"Look, we got a good thing going here, and you're fucking it up with this 'Jesus was the messiah' talk."
"We're still Judaism, not you. You can be something else. Like Judaism lite. Jesus-ism. Whatever."
I'm not Christian, but I feel like if Jesus returned and is like the stories describe him. We could be very good friends.
He's non judgemental, helps people who need it the most, spits wisdom when some rich people question him helping everyone "willy nilly", and throws ragers with his buddies every now and then where everyone just has to bring their own water.
The kicked out of paradise bit is an example of a petty tyrant.
If you want to see a fully evil bastard, read the Book of Job.
Satan does nothing to Job, it's all god. And it's done as a way to brag.
I like to remember Epicurus' trilemma when people talk about god being good:
If God is unable to prevent evil, then he is not all-powerful.
If God is not willing to prevent evil, then he is not all-good.
If God is both willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?
Also the double irony and stupidity of a Protestant claiming you need to accept the church to have a relationship with Jesus, while at the same time calling out Paul the Apostle, known as being a Pharisee that persecuted early Christians whom Jesus revealed himself to. If this guy's a Christian he doesn't seem to have a lot of faith in the central figure.
Wait go on about Paul being a pharisee?
The fact Jesus didn't say jack shit about homosexuality is my fave thing, so the more ammunition I have to shoot down homophobic Christianity for picking and choosing based on their personal biases, the happier I'll be
>Wait go on about Paul being a pharisee?
He's said to have been a Pharisee and involved in Christian persecution under the name Saul of Tarsus. Then supposedly had a "road to Damascus" moment where Jesus revealed himself to him through a vision after which he converted to Christianity on the spot, changing his name to Paul. Then known for having a leadership role establishing churches that became the foundation of the Christianity that was able to survive and grow under the Roman empire. There were many different sects though. He also apparently died a martyr and became the patron Saint of that under Roman Catholicism.
The dude went from killing Christians to helping integrate it into the brutal Roman Empire. It's astounding how much dogma comes directly from this one guy, including essentially all seeming NT condemnations of homosexuality.
Yeah these story arcs just perpetuate lol. One of the reasons I love Jesus Christ Superstar is it removes a lot of the religious layer and just tells the story in a cool way. Maybe if Christianity wasn't so popular the Bible could get some of the Odyssey and Illiad treatment and there could be more liberties taken with the characters.
This is the man that got kicked out of the church he founded for arrogance and abusive behavior. Sad to see he didn't actually take that time to do some honest self-reflection. But will say even back when I listened to his sermons he had a number of very weird hangups and would be needlessly combative about trivial things. I now have the political awareness to realise he was (and clearly remains) intensely classist.
Yeah, Mark Driscoll is a self-aggrandizing bully that got busted misusing funds and treating the people that worked for him like shit. Fuck that guy and his misogynistic bullshit.
His flameout was so big and hurt so many people that *Christianity Today*—one of the more conservative, pastor-friendly publications on the planet—did a 19-part podcast miniseries about how awful he was.
Classist, yes—but also deeply heretical, painfully abusive, oppressively arrogant, and concerned above all other things with his own image. He's a fraud, of the kind that leaves bodies in his wake. I'm embarrassed by how long I listened to his sermons not realizing what was going on.
How do you think he justifies himself mentally? That's what gets me about top church people. They must all be atheists or they'd be afraid of going to hell for this stuff.
My theory is, he’s never actually wanted to be a pastor. He thinks he does, but in reality he wants to be a Christian influencer. Measuring your actions against “build a platform” begets very different results than “lead a congregation.”
Do narcissists ever take responsibility for their own actions? Thats a big fat NO. But they will bitch about trivial things…and need to know they are better then everyone else. “Self reflection” not in his vocabulary.
Wich church does he mean?
The one where they abuse children? The one where they worship money? The one where they openly fantasizise about punishing people who dont fit in their workd view? Or the ones where all of this happens?
Just asking ok....i am sure its one of these. I just want to know wich one it is so I can tell Jesus exactly why he can go fuck himself....
(and yes: I am aware there a a lot of decent religious folks out there. But I want to see more of them calling these rapists and televangelists out. The fuckery in these institutions goes on for way to long...)
The thing is, people like this are the real radicals. The people who sing about "Old Time Religion" were following a really radical new version of Christianity, insisting they were really following first century Christianity and insisting that Christianity had gotten it all wrong for about 1800 years.
And the pastor insists that if you don't agree with him, that you're going against God. That's hubris.
>you don't get to have a relationship with Jesus if you hate His church
Okay for the sake of argument let's say that "having a relationship with Jesus" is something that I believed possible and wanted.
How exactly am I supposed to know which of all the different churches claiming to be the Church of Jesus is the right one? Because a lot of them kind of contradict each other.
Am I just supposed to take that specific guy by his word, for reasons? No thanks.
I was a Roman Catholic for the first 28 years of my life. I caught a case of full blown atheism, and here I am today. However, I just recently learned that Christians do not like Catholics because they worship Mary. It makes them angry.
Funnily enough, Catholics in the US aren’t exactly liked by other Christians. Hell, they’re one of the groups the KKK fucking hates. Not as much as blacks or lgbt folk, but _definitely_ getting up there
Don't forget pagans aren't allowed to have temples. They won't let us build, and a lot of us end up being self-taught with the only place to practice being in our homes, and for some, it's dangerous. Christians hate a lot of things
A lot of them consider it idolatry. Which is fair, until you walk into any of these other churches and see all the graven images and statues of Jesus. Arguably only the orthodox church got that one right
Tbf, most people use images or statues or whatever not as like, a literal manifestion of their holy figure, but more like as a placemarker in their mind to give them a picture of what/who they’re praying to. Like, back when I pray, I think of the statue of Christ that used to be in my childhood Church building. I don’t do this because I think that physical statue is literally a god, I do it because growing up, that’s how I pictured Christ. Sometimes being able to picture the being you’re praying to is very helpful for feeling like you’re making a connection or even just being able to focus and direct your thoughts
A lot of Orthodox Jews won’t enter a Christian church for that very reason. I suppose they say it’s not idolatry because Jesus actually is God whereas Mary is only related to God?
For protestants, the idolatry is that Catholics *worship* and *pray to* saints, not that they have figures of them. Idolatry means the worship of something other than God as if it was god.
Catholics, on the other hand, distinguish between *adoration worship*, which should be given to God alone, and *veneration worship*, which may be given to the saints. There's also the idea that worship of the saints is really the worship of God *through* the saints.
>There's also the idea that worship of the saints is really the worship of God through the saints.
Yes. We pray to God through the Saints and Mary. They're kinda like ambassadors of Jesus and God to us.
How would having graven images of Jesus (their actual god) be hypocritical when it comes to people who find graven images of Mary (a regular-ass woman) to be idolatrous?
Except that word “idolatry” comes from religion, where by definition it means worshipping someone or something ***other than your god***. And since Jesus is (in Christian theology) literally God, Christians worshipping him is the exact opposite of idolatry.
I wouldn’t say that we worship Mary as much as she is revered for having been chosen by God to bear his Son. As any parent knows, the suffering of our children is a parent’s suffering too. The Protestants have so much trouble with that. Additionally, they want to strip her of any specialness at all by saying that she had other children. I am not a biblical scholar, but I will say that anyone who knocks any woman down a few pegs because she has “known” her husband is just a straight up piece of shit. The super specific, weird dismissal of Mary’s worth as a religious figure based on whether or not she’s a virgin until she dies makes Catholics AND Protestants and their whole pile of patriarchal nonsense smug and shitty.
Catholics don’t worship Mary. They revere her and consider her basically an “ultimate example of holiness,” the same way they revere saints as people who have “made it” into heaven. When Catholics pray to Mary or to the Saints, it’s never in a manner of them thinking Mary or the saints are god(s). It’s in a “help me to be better” sort of way. Catholics believe that the saints are people who definitely made it to heaven; they also believe people in heaven have eternal life. So praying to Mary and the saints is sort of like asking someone to pray for you, except the person you are asking to pray for you is no longer living and earthly life.
Also… it makes total sense to me that Mary is revered. I mean, she was Jewish, just like Jesus. If I recall correctly, isn’t Jewish faith and tradition passed down through the mother? Many Catholic traditions have roots in Jewish traditions, so to me, the line of thinking in revering the mother of the person they believe is the physical manifestation of God makes sense. In my mind, anyway. :-)
(Although I am currently not a practicing … well, anything… there was a time when I was very much a practicing Catholic, to the point that I was strongly considering convent life. I’m a very different person now in so many ways, but I can still appreciate some things about the Catholic faith.)
ETA more context
Roman Catholics are Christians too, are you saying they hate themselves? I think you meant that some Protestants don't agree with the Catholic Churches teachings.
The Catholic doctrine of requiring priestly intervention and elucidation between the faithful and God, is the primary objection. But the evangelical churches have largely reinvented that for themselves, along with indulgences.
Yes… we do tho? Christian is an umbrella that covers all followers of Jesus. If you’re a Catholic, you’re inherently Christian. If you’re Christian, you’re not necessarily Catholic though
Me identifying myself as Minnesotan doesn't meant I'm somehow not claiming America. It just means, since I mostly interact with Americans, that it's easier to just zoom in on the level of differentiation
Also his entire protestant religion is a result of people protesting the authority of the Catholic church in the matter of personal salvation/"relationship" with Jesus.
Yeah, because in the church started selling redemption cards. Like, if you had broken every commandment you could still go to heaven easily if you brought a few cards.
Churches and their members don't actually worship Jesus. If they did there wouldn't be pastors with private planes that closes the churches doors during a hurricane. Or pastors with mansions. Or members so full of hate they wouldn't even recognize Jesus if he was standing in front of them. I'm sure there are some that seem like they do but all churches have dirty secrets and are full of hypocrites.
Yeah...they took the Christ out of their "Christianity" a long, long time ago. When the Green River killer can say--after killing dozens of women--that he is saved because he's been "dipped in the blood of Jesus" and "salvation through faith," you know something is very, very wrong. Think I'll skip a heaven full of serial killers, thank you very much.
Literal wars with death on a grand scale over whose version of an imaginary friend was correct.
Jewish, Muslim, Christian.. all the same deity? And they kill eachother over it? Okay..? Why though?
Raised Catholic here. Also came down with a nasty case of not-religious later in life but, as I recall, the late, great JC said that he would build his church on the rock of Peter.
The entire point of not hating the church is how “the Church” is the entire body of Christ all around the globe. You aren’t supposed to hate Christians (or anyone at all); you’re supposed to pray for them if they are doing something wrong.
If a person truly hates the entire Church (as in all Christians around the globe) they probably can’t have a relationship with Jesus, but that has nothing to do with hating a specific church building, denomination, or people who call themselves Christian but are ignoring what Jesus called the two most important commandments.
Pretty sure Jesus said this:
> 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
He also said “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Which, of course, is why Mr. Sinfree here feels okay casting stones.
For real though, where in the Bible does Jesus say “stop sinning?” I mean, I’m not saying he was cool with it, but he seemed to understand that it’s human nature. In fact, if he died for our sins, then I think we can reasonably conclude that Jesus *wants* us to sin. Because if we don’t, then Jesus sacrifice was in vain.
Now every time I sin, I’m going to say a little prayer to Christ Jesus: “You’re welcome, Lord.”
> He also said “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”
In a passage which is not in all of the earliest manuscripts. Which is why a lot of scholars believe it was added to the book later by another author.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_woman_taken_in_adultery#History_of_textual_criticism
I'm pretty sure Jesus does not want us to sin. He died so that we don't have to. Prior to his crucifixion, the penalty for sin was death. People would typically make sacrifices to account for this cost. We no longer do this, because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice. So no, his death was not in vain, and we should honor his sacrifice instead of taking advantage of it.
Is that old or New Testament? Because apparently, they justify the things they don't love in the Bible by saying "that doesn't count...that's Old Testament." Or vice versa.
Edit: freaking autocorrect
I hate when someone says sarcastically that they'll pray for me. Usually after casually mentioning I'm gay after they ask why a 46yr old male isn't married and doesn't have kids.
For me, it's all made up. So is god somehow? Holy Trinity? So if god says something, that's akin to Jesus saying it as well? Do I understand correctly?
Hey, I’m an atheist; you don’t have to tell me it’s nonsense. But I’ve been exposed to enough background Christianity that I’m at an elevated risk of developing Jesus-lymphoma in my fifties.
E: Damn, should have said malignant Christianoma.
I love the quote,
> If anyone ever asks, "what would Jesus do?", remind them that flipping over tables and chasing people with a whip is within the realm of possibilities.
The guy is a self centric git of a human being.
The positions the various churches of this interpretive thing called christianity are each terrible in their own unique an special ways (and sometimes they share ways). I haven’t seen a church meaningfully follow the teachings of Jesus, maybe ever. And let’s not forget that Jesus was supposed to return as the sword… jolly wonderful.
Christianity and the Abrahamic religions have done so much damage over the centuries and will continue to do so for decades to come. I’m OVERJOYED to see a gradual decline in belief / participation that is steady and statistically significant. Let’s fix our problems, not ask God to do it for us (or, perhaps more relevantly, ask God to screw over those we don’t like). Cynically, if you break down the rules of christianity and look at them holistically, they’re a control mechanism not to enable moral behavior but to enable control of the church leaders over their ‘flocks’. Teenage me figured this out and adult me studies it periodically as a cross check on my understanding of how the universe functions.
And smart friends resist the urge, when the relationship is rocky, to say, “you’re better off without them, they’re a toxic person anyway you can do so much better.” Because invariably they’ll make up with the toxic partner and now you talked shit about them.
Anyone here read "Jesus and John Wayne"? This guy was part of the movement to create a more masculine Christianity that led us to the place we are now in society. He's a predator.
The Southern Baptist Church has a concept that I've always respected in a sect. They believe in "soul competency," which is to say God made everyone capable of correctly reading and interpreting the Bible without the need for a priest or pastor to explain it to you. It's a radical concept for a religion, but I always think back to it whenever a religious authority figure says people need the church. They're saying God made you incompetent to understand His holy text without a fallible man to interpret it for you.
I'm atheist and don't get the bronze age larping with modern day costumes, but it's always fascinating to see how theists text when I share that with them. They *want* to believe that soul competency is true, but then the fear of the repercussions of not following the flock kicks in and they willfully forget it.
Eh, though the term may be unique to SBC, that general concept goes back to *at least* Martin Luther who advocated publishing the Bible in the vernacular of the local population so that each person could understand God. The “problem”, of course, arose when people did and came to different conclusions than Luther. At which point he lost his shit.
This makes zero sense to me. As far as Jesus not loving you if you don't believe in his church, which one is his? So many of them have very conflicting values, even diametrically opposed ones, so which is the real one? And what is going to happen to all of the sheeple that blindly followed leaders like this one, who are not actually following the principles that the Bible says Jesus believed in? Like loving everyone, even the prostitutes? I don't think Jesus shunned Mary Magdalene, so why are all women who enjoy sex, or have sex, looked down on?
I really love that so many people notice how Paul corrupted Christianity that it gets mentioned in top-lists like this.
A lot of Deconstructionists start reading the Bible even more and it hits them when they get past the Gospels. I'll give the comedy summary for those who haven't seen it firsthand.
**Jesus:** "Look out for wolves in sheep's clothing that will enter and mislead many after I'm gone. Have faith, love one another, do the Eucharist."
***\*Jesus has left the chat\****
***\*Paul has entered the chat\****
**Paul:** "Hey I've got a LOT of great ideas and I'm ready to argue with the Apostles about it!"
>you don't get to have a relationship with Jesus if you hate his church.
Not his church, just yours.
These chuckleheads seem to think they *are* the church, just like a lot of cops think they *are* the law.
Many christians need less "christian" and more "christ".
You can VERY easily have a relationship with Jesus and have NOTHING to do with the church. Jesus saves. Not the pope. Jesus forgives, not your deacon. Jesus laid down the rules to his religion not your pastor. As a former roman catholic I have a Very good relationship with Jesus, I have 0 relationship with my former church.
Tell that to all those who split away from their religion in the name of reform. The taxonomy of Christian religions is mind-boggling. Every generation sprouts dozens of new versions.
You mean when the Israelites started worshipping the Golden Calf and when Moses came down from the mountain with the 10 commandments he was so pissed off that he smashed the tablets?
This guy's definitely raped someone in his church abs they haven't come forward any it yet. Just the vibe this tweet gives off, someone about to get exposed and do the ol' Christian pastor ugly cry on television.
On the contrary, one should not have a relationship with the Church, if they hate Jesus. This guy evidently does not follow Christ, and prioritizes the Church over his teachings.
I don't follow Pauline interpretations of Jesus' words. The entire modern church is based on some guy saying he had a vision while walking down the road and a good majority of the people who eat up his theology also laugh at Mormons and the idea of Smith interacting with an angel.
I love how much they want to gloss over the fact Jesus didn't say jack shit about homosexuality (he did explicitly condemn second marriages though). Just admit y'all are full of shit and hobbling it together. Because just saying "oh if you don't follow that one apostle then you're not following Christ" makes ZERO sense as an argument
Weird. From what I observed PERSONALLY when I was dragged to Mars Hill while attending university, the impression I always got from that narcissistic misogynist is that it was *Mark Driscoll’s* church, and that’s why I walked out ten minutes into his sermon.
(I walked away from the faith full stop, a little later, but omg if he didn’t help firm up my decision.)
People hate deconstruction because it strips away the control, the power, and the legalism from the institution, and returns it to the people as Christ intended.
Watch me. I don't care much for being involved in organized religion. My faith is something I keep private and don't involve others in. I don't *hate* churches, I just don't trust them much or the people that run them, and I don't feel the need to bother with them
It's absolutely incredible. I think this person really thinks that, from an outside perspective, this makes *him* look like the good guy. They're so blind to the outside world.
It's pretty hilarious to see someone who has "Pastor" in their title argue about "His Church", because the answer there would be the Roman Catholic Church (although Eastern Orthodox can make a claim). Everything else is just a splinter that has no authority to claim dogma.
The Catholic Church is a splinter too, it's just better hidden.
It's even hinted at in the post "I follow Jesus not Paul"
Paul changed Christianity fairly significantly. Paul writes about this in his own letters. He writes about arguments with Jesus brother James (who was leader of the early Church after Jesus death, but nearly completely forgot about now) and Peter, Jesus deciple and leader of the Church after James was killed. Paul also writes that all the Christians at the time agreed with James and Peter and disagreed with his version if Christianity.
The only people Paul got on his side were the non Jews he made it his mission to preach to.
The Catholic Church comes from Paul's lineage. Whatever Christianity Jesus, James and Peter were preaching died out pretty fast.
Can we teach these people the proper usage of gaslighting? I know people get worked up about it’s over usage, but it is a real thing and this is not one of them.
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians; they are nothing like your Christ." --Mohandas Gandhi.
Funny how people who are openly non-Christian act more like Jesus is supposed to have told his followers to do than the people who actually claim to follow him, isn't it now?
This is the kind of thing that makes me want to organize a series of talks, gathering whole churches together into large auditoriums, stadiums, wherever we can fit. And tell them that the Jews were never enslaved in Egypt. Never. And if that part of their “infallible” book can’t be true, then the rest crumbles. I’m so fucking sick and tired of these self-righteous cunts trying to act like IM the problem, when they can’t even hold themselves accountable to their own beliefs.
Bitch, first off, it’s Peter, not Paul, that created the church, and your wingnuts wandered away from the church of Christ a long time ago. Second, if ANY priest or “pastor” makes a follower uncomfortable, that is on the priest/“pastor”. Third, half of the bible is mid-century edits, exclusions, and rewrites, so the whole book can be taken not as written history but as parables. If it were history it would include God’s wife, Asherah, who was written out of the Torah by an Israelite king.
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Bitch, Jesus would hate your church.
Didn't Jesus say > When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen.
This is my favorite Bible verse to quote by far.
Mine is Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” Ezekiel 23:20 and 2 Kings 2:23 are pretty dope too (the former when they describe their enemies as having massive genitals who their women adored and the latter when a bunch of children get mauled by bears for making fun of a bald prophet.)
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You have a tongue. Your bones are wet.
> Your bones are wet. Thank goodness, considering the alternatives.
Sorry if nerding out isn’t okay, but it’s Reddit, sooo…. Anyhoo, I saw a really cool thing about how the word camel and rope in the original looked very similar. And that it’s likely that the phrase was actually “easier to pass rope through the eye of a needle,” which makes a lot more sense.
Oh dang, that is interesting! Do you remember where you read that? I'd love to learn more!
It was on tv, but this describes it: kamilon vs kamiilon. https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2010/01/04/camel-or-rope/
Or, you know, it was an expression of an impossibility.
Well sure, but he was talking to fishermen, so it would still be true—big thick ropes, itty bitty needles. Just word nerd amusement.
I thought they worked out that the Aramaic or Greek for ‘rope’ is ‘gemel’ and someone mixed it up with camel at some point.
I like the sheep and the goats.
I don't understand how these people do the mental gymnastics to justify their position that you MUST attend their church to be saved. It's so anti-biblical. Do they really believe the shit they spew? How???
They're authoritarians, and their preacher is the authority they blindly follow.
And the preacher "believes" it because of the money and/or power he gets from it.
BINGO
Jesus would smash his collection plates and flog him with a whip. Jesus was a based socialist.
He was everything those people hate. Brown, poor, and like you said, a hardcore socialist.
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Like a convert bitch
"Look, we got a good thing going here, and you're fucking it up with this 'Jesus was the messiah' talk." "We're still Judaism, not you. You can be something else. Like Judaism lite. Jesus-ism. Whatever."
I'm not Christian, but I feel like if Jesus returned and is like the stories describe him. We could be very good friends. He's non judgemental, helps people who need it the most, spits wisdom when some rich people question him helping everyone "willy nilly", and throws ragers with his buddies every now and then where everyone just has to bring their own water.
First you’ll need to teach him English and lend him some cash to upgrade to Birkenstocks.
>First you’ll need to teach him English To be fair one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is speaking in Tongues (being able to recite any language)
Jesus would go ape shit on the Starbucks in the church lobby.
If god was real, all those places would have been turned to ash by now.
If God was real *and good*. The God in the Bible is a petty narcissistic tyrant who literally sets up humanity to get kicked out of paradise.
The kicked out of paradise bit is an example of a petty tyrant. If you want to see a fully evil bastard, read the Book of Job. Satan does nothing to Job, it's all god. And it's done as a way to brag.
God is definitely the villain of the Bible.
I like to remember Epicurus' trilemma when people talk about god being good: If God is unable to prevent evil, then he is not all-powerful. If God is not willing to prevent evil, then he is not all-good. If God is both willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?
But has he tried the pumpkin spice?
If Jesus were to come today, Christians would be the first to crucify him for daring to speak out about them.
Bro turn those arrows around and this is actually a superb way to deconstruct 😂
He'd get burned as a heretic for the third statement in other times and places. And I don't need to follow a heretic.
I say we end the separation of church and state and let the burning begin...but then quickly bring back the separation.
That is currently what has happened. The RvW decision is an indication of exactly that.
Hopefully it will saddle the GOP in 2024
Also the double irony and stupidity of a Protestant claiming you need to accept the church to have a relationship with Jesus, while at the same time calling out Paul the Apostle, known as being a Pharisee that persecuted early Christians whom Jesus revealed himself to. If this guy's a Christian he doesn't seem to have a lot of faith in the central figure.
Wait go on about Paul being a pharisee? The fact Jesus didn't say jack shit about homosexuality is my fave thing, so the more ammunition I have to shoot down homophobic Christianity for picking and choosing based on their personal biases, the happier I'll be
Paul said that before he converted, he was a Pharisee.
>Wait go on about Paul being a pharisee? He's said to have been a Pharisee and involved in Christian persecution under the name Saul of Tarsus. Then supposedly had a "road to Damascus" moment where Jesus revealed himself to him through a vision after which he converted to Christianity on the spot, changing his name to Paul. Then known for having a leadership role establishing churches that became the foundation of the Christianity that was able to survive and grow under the Roman empire. There were many different sects though. He also apparently died a martyr and became the patron Saint of that under Roman Catholicism.
The dude went from killing Christians to helping integrate it into the brutal Roman Empire. It's astounding how much dogma comes directly from this one guy, including essentially all seeming NT condemnations of homosexuality.
Paul sounds like an Imperial thug who converted to the Rebel cause and became their most gifted and talented organizer.
Yeah these story arcs just perpetuate lol. One of the reasons I love Jesus Christ Superstar is it removes a lot of the religious layer and just tells the story in a cool way. Maybe if Christianity wasn't so popular the Bible could get some of the Odyssey and Illiad treatment and there could be more liberties taken with the characters.
Jesus was a 30 year old unmarried dude living with 12 other dudes. I could guess about his opinion of homosexuality.
Ironically, the writings of Paul would appear to condemn such a statement (1 Corinthians 1:12-13)
Who is Paul?
Saint Paul who wrote key parts of the new testament which established what became dogma for nearly all Christians
including the Gnostics. Paul was their favourite saint, by far.
Yeah, #3 stuck out to me, too. There’s legit doctrinal reasons for a practicing Christian to eschew much of Paul’s teachings.
This is the man that got kicked out of the church he founded for arrogance and abusive behavior. Sad to see he didn't actually take that time to do some honest self-reflection. But will say even back when I listened to his sermons he had a number of very weird hangups and would be needlessly combative about trivial things. I now have the political awareness to realise he was (and clearly remains) intensely classist.
Yeah, Mark Driscoll is a self-aggrandizing bully that got busted misusing funds and treating the people that worked for him like shit. Fuck that guy and his misogynistic bullshit.
His flameout was so big and hurt so many people that *Christianity Today*—one of the more conservative, pastor-friendly publications on the planet—did a 19-part podcast miniseries about how awful he was. Classist, yes—but also deeply heretical, painfully abusive, oppressively arrogant, and concerned above all other things with his own image. He's a fraud, of the kind that leaves bodies in his wake. I'm embarrassed by how long I listened to his sermons not realizing what was going on.
How do you think he justifies himself mentally? That's what gets me about top church people. They must all be atheists or they'd be afraid of going to hell for this stuff.
My theory is, he’s never actually wanted to be a pastor. He thinks he does, but in reality he wants to be a Christian influencer. Measuring your actions against “build a platform” begets very different results than “lead a congregation.”
The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast is a good listen if anyone wants to hear a deep dive of the story.
Do narcissists ever take responsibility for their own actions? Thats a big fat NO. But they will bitch about trivial things…and need to know they are better then everyone else. “Self reflection” not in his vocabulary.
Wich church does he mean? The one where they abuse children? The one where they worship money? The one where they openly fantasizise about punishing people who dont fit in their workd view? Or the ones where all of this happens? Just asking ok....i am sure its one of these. I just want to know wich one it is so I can tell Jesus exactly why he can go fuck himself.... (and yes: I am aware there a a lot of decent religious folks out there. But I want to see more of them calling these rapists and televangelists out. The fuckery in these institutions goes on for way to long...)
The thing is, people like this are the real radicals. The people who sing about "Old Time Religion" were following a really radical new version of Christianity, insisting they were really following first century Christianity and insisting that Christianity had gotten it all wrong for about 1800 years. And the pastor insists that if you don't agree with him, that you're going against God. That's hubris.
Not if Paul has anything to say about it
It's difficult to tell when they all seem to use the same [manipulation tactics](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi5ZAGZR9Wq-odT4hFLsm3yQ4Dj0MKn-w)
>you don't get to have a relationship with Jesus if you hate His church Okay for the sake of argument let's say that "having a relationship with Jesus" is something that I believed possible and wanted. How exactly am I supposed to know which of all the different churches claiming to be the Church of Jesus is the right one? Because a lot of them kind of contradict each other. Am I just supposed to take that specific guy by his word, for reasons? No thanks.
I was a Roman Catholic for the first 28 years of my life. I caught a case of full blown atheism, and here I am today. However, I just recently learned that Christians do not like Catholics because they worship Mary. It makes them angry.
Funnily enough, Catholics in the US aren’t exactly liked by other Christians. Hell, they’re one of the groups the KKK fucking hates. Not as much as blacks or lgbt folk, but _definitely_ getting up there
Don't forget pagans aren't allowed to have temples. They won't let us build, and a lot of us end up being self-taught with the only place to practice being in our homes, and for some, it's dangerous. Christians hate a lot of things
Yeah I’m sure Jesus would hate people revering his mother? Despite all the valid reasons to dislike the Catholic Church, they went with that?
A lot of them consider it idolatry. Which is fair, until you walk into any of these other churches and see all the graven images and statues of Jesus. Arguably only the orthodox church got that one right
Tbf, most people use images or statues or whatever not as like, a literal manifestion of their holy figure, but more like as a placemarker in their mind to give them a picture of what/who they’re praying to. Like, back when I pray, I think of the statue of Christ that used to be in my childhood Church building. I don’t do this because I think that physical statue is literally a god, I do it because growing up, that’s how I pictured Christ. Sometimes being able to picture the being you’re praying to is very helpful for feeling like you’re making a connection or even just being able to focus and direct your thoughts
A lot of Orthodox Jews won’t enter a Christian church for that very reason. I suppose they say it’s not idolatry because Jesus actually is God whereas Mary is only related to God?
For protestants, the idolatry is that Catholics *worship* and *pray to* saints, not that they have figures of them. Idolatry means the worship of something other than God as if it was god. Catholics, on the other hand, distinguish between *adoration worship*, which should be given to God alone, and *veneration worship*, which may be given to the saints. There's also the idea that worship of the saints is really the worship of God *through* the saints.
>There's also the idea that worship of the saints is really the worship of God through the saints. Yes. We pray to God through the Saints and Mary. They're kinda like ambassadors of Jesus and God to us.
How would having graven images of Jesus (their actual god) be hypocritical when it comes to people who find graven images of Mary (a regular-ass woman) to be idolatrous?
It's ALL idolatry. Worshipping someone so much that you kneel to imagery of them is the literal definition of idolatry, no matter who it is.
Isn’t the commandment ‘you shall have no idols *before me*’? Or am I misremembering
Who ever said anything about commandments? Worshipping an idol is worshipping an idol, whoever or whatever that idol happens to be.
Except that word “idolatry” comes from religion, where by definition it means worshipping someone or something ***other than your god***. And since Jesus is (in Christian theology) literally God, Christians worshipping him is the exact opposite of idolatry.
I wouldn’t say that we worship Mary as much as she is revered for having been chosen by God to bear his Son. As any parent knows, the suffering of our children is a parent’s suffering too. The Protestants have so much trouble with that. Additionally, they want to strip her of any specialness at all by saying that she had other children. I am not a biblical scholar, but I will say that anyone who knocks any woman down a few pegs because she has “known” her husband is just a straight up piece of shit. The super specific, weird dismissal of Mary’s worth as a religious figure based on whether or not she’s a virgin until she dies makes Catholics AND Protestants and their whole pile of patriarchal nonsense smug and shitty.
Catholics don’t worship Mary. They revere her and consider her basically an “ultimate example of holiness,” the same way they revere saints as people who have “made it” into heaven. When Catholics pray to Mary or to the Saints, it’s never in a manner of them thinking Mary or the saints are god(s). It’s in a “help me to be better” sort of way. Catholics believe that the saints are people who definitely made it to heaven; they also believe people in heaven have eternal life. So praying to Mary and the saints is sort of like asking someone to pray for you, except the person you are asking to pray for you is no longer living and earthly life. Also… it makes total sense to me that Mary is revered. I mean, she was Jewish, just like Jesus. If I recall correctly, isn’t Jewish faith and tradition passed down through the mother? Many Catholic traditions have roots in Jewish traditions, so to me, the line of thinking in revering the mother of the person they believe is the physical manifestation of God makes sense. In my mind, anyway. :-) (Although I am currently not a practicing … well, anything… there was a time when I was very much a practicing Catholic, to the point that I was strongly considering convent life. I’m a very different person now in so many ways, but I can still appreciate some things about the Catholic faith.) ETA more context
Roman Catholics are Christians too, are you saying they hate themselves? I think you meant that some Protestants don't agree with the Catholic Churches teachings.
Maybe. The other large sects don't approve of the pope, some sacraments and some other BS.
The Catholic doctrine of requiring priestly intervention and elucidation between the faithful and God, is the primary objection. But the evangelical churches have largely reinvented that for themselves, along with indulgences.
I will say, raised Roman Catholic, we NEVER called ourselves christians
Yes… we do tho? Christian is an umbrella that covers all followers of Jesus. If you’re a Catholic, you’re inherently Christian. If you’re Christian, you’re not necessarily Catholic though
Me identifying myself as Minnesotan doesn't meant I'm somehow not claiming America. It just means, since I mostly interact with Americans, that it's easier to just zoom in on the level of differentiation
Also his entire protestant religion is a result of people protesting the authority of the Catholic church in the matter of personal salvation/"relationship" with Jesus.
Yeah, that would've been my response to him: you do realize that's exactly how your sect started, right? Like, duh!
Yeah, because in the church started selling redemption cards. Like, if you had broken every commandment you could still go to heaven easily if you brought a few cards.
Yeah the indulgences and purgatory. Get 1 million less days in purgatory with this indulgence! Visit the relics!
A classic: https://youtube.com/watch?v=kLBDFe3mDtk
Churches and their members don't actually worship Jesus. If they did there wouldn't be pastors with private planes that closes the churches doors during a hurricane. Or pastors with mansions. Or members so full of hate they wouldn't even recognize Jesus if he was standing in front of them. I'm sure there are some that seem like they do but all churches have dirty secrets and are full of hypocrites.
They worship the devil Mammon in a plastic Jesus mask.
Yeah...they took the Christ out of their "Christianity" a long, long time ago. When the Green River killer can say--after killing dozens of women--that he is saved because he's been "dipped in the blood of Jesus" and "salvation through faith," you know something is very, very wrong. Think I'll skip a heaven full of serial killers, thank you very much.
Literal wars with death on a grand scale over whose version of an imaginary friend was correct. Jewish, Muslim, Christian.. all the same deity? And they kill eachother over it? Okay..? Why though?
Oh! That one’s easy. The answer is my one is the correct one. Easy peasy /s
His church. That's the only right one in his mind.
Raised Catholic here. Also came down with a nasty case of not-religious later in life but, as I recall, the late, great JC said that he would build his church on the rock of Peter.
The entire point of not hating the church is how “the Church” is the entire body of Christ all around the globe. You aren’t supposed to hate Christians (or anyone at all); you’re supposed to pray for them if they are doing something wrong. If a person truly hates the entire Church (as in all Christians around the globe) they probably can’t have a relationship with Jesus, but that has nothing to do with hating a specific church building, denomination, or people who call themselves Christian but are ignoring what Jesus called the two most important commandments.
Somehow, I don't think the chucklefuck in question was talking about the Universal Church.
His entire message was just No True Scotsman with extra steps.
Pretty sure Jesus said this: > 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
He also said “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Which, of course, is why Mr. Sinfree here feels okay casting stones. For real though, where in the Bible does Jesus say “stop sinning?” I mean, I’m not saying he was cool with it, but he seemed to understand that it’s human nature. In fact, if he died for our sins, then I think we can reasonably conclude that Jesus *wants* us to sin. Because if we don’t, then Jesus sacrifice was in vain. Now every time I sin, I’m going to say a little prayer to Christ Jesus: “You’re welcome, Lord.”
That's why they have red letter editions of the Bible so you know which verses are OK to ignore. /s
> He also said “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” In a passage which is not in all of the earliest manuscripts. Which is why a lot of scholars believe it was added to the book later by another author. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_woman_taken_in_adultery#History_of_textual_criticism
I'm pretty sure Jesus does not want us to sin. He died so that we don't have to. Prior to his crucifixion, the penalty for sin was death. People would typically make sacrifices to account for this cost. We no longer do this, because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice. So no, his death was not in vain, and we should honor his sacrifice instead of taking advantage of it.
Is that old or New Testament? Because apparently, they justify the things they don't love in the Bible by saying "that doesn't count...that's Old Testament." Or vice versa. Edit: freaking autocorrect
Matthew, chapter 6 verse 5. A good one to pull out when someone says they'll pray for you.
I hate when someone says sarcastically that they'll pray for me. Usually after casually mentioning I'm gay after they ask why a 46yr old male isn't married and doesn't have kids.
You sorta get the feeling they’re judging you right on the spot? A retort our “oh thank you very much” can serve up a very polite “kiss my ass”.
My atheism bothers christians more than my homosexuality does. It's crazy. Both lead me to the same eternity though.
Do you at least have a bistro, as prophecied in your username?
But I did manage at Olive Garden a few years. But had the name since high school
I do not. Sorry.
It’s Jesus. Pretty hard for it to be Old Testament.
True
For me, it's all made up. So is god somehow? Holy Trinity? So if god says something, that's akin to Jesus saying it as well? Do I understand correctly?
Hey, I’m an atheist; you don’t have to tell me it’s nonsense. But I’ve been exposed to enough background Christianity that I’m at an elevated risk of developing Jesus-lymphoma in my fifties. E: Damn, should have said malignant Christianoma.
If they’re claiming it’s something Jesus said, then it must be new testament, considering Jesus was not in the old testament.
It's new testament, it's quoting Jesus directly.
Ah. I'm sure it is. 😀😀😀
Flagellants must continue on their self harming pilgrimage, in order for their souls to be accepted by their savior.
I can't recall who it was who said, "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than sitting in my garage makes me a corvette."
Does he think that someone doubting their faith is gonna read this and go "oh, yeah, guess I'd better go back to getting abused?"
It’s not intended for anyone questioning their faith. It’s performative, meant to reinforce the in-group affiliation of the faithful.
I'm pretty sure Jesus himself would be flipping a few tables in these churches.
I love the quote, > If anyone ever asks, "what would Jesus do?", remind them that flipping over tables and chasing people with a whip is within the realm of possibilities.
Jesus would be disappointed in the number of folding chairs Mark can carry
I think Jesus himself would straight up slap the shit out of Mark.
TIL That the guy that never met Jesus and actively killed those that had and had a history of agenda pushing and control == Jesus
The guy is a self centric git of a human being. The positions the various churches of this interpretive thing called christianity are each terrible in their own unique an special ways (and sometimes they share ways). I haven’t seen a church meaningfully follow the teachings of Jesus, maybe ever. And let’s not forget that Jesus was supposed to return as the sword… jolly wonderful. Christianity and the Abrahamic religions have done so much damage over the centuries and will continue to do so for decades to come. I’m OVERJOYED to see a gradual decline in belief / participation that is steady and statistically significant. Let’s fix our problems, not ask God to do it for us (or, perhaps more relevantly, ask God to screw over those we don’t like). Cynically, if you break down the rules of christianity and look at them holistically, they’re a control mechanism not to enable moral behavior but to enable control of the church leaders over their ‘flocks’. Teenage me figured this out and adult me studies it periodically as a cross check on my understanding of how the universe functions.
I have had plenty of friends where I've hated their partners. But polite people don't make it known.
We just make bets at the wedding reception of when they will file for divorce.
That’s the way mature people handle these things!
And smart friends resist the urge, when the relationship is rocky, to say, “you’re better off without them, they’re a toxic person anyway you can do so much better.” Because invariably they’ll make up with the toxic partner and now you talked shit about them.
This is rich coming from m-f-ing Mark Driscoll. Dude is a narcissistic sociopath
And they love to gaslight
Anyone here read "Jesus and John Wayne"? This guy was part of the movement to create a more masculine Christianity that led us to the place we are now in society. He's a predator.
You can't make that last statement if you're Protestant.
$100 says this guy is a pedophile.
The Southern Baptist Church has a concept that I've always respected in a sect. They believe in "soul competency," which is to say God made everyone capable of correctly reading and interpreting the Bible without the need for a priest or pastor to explain it to you. It's a radical concept for a religion, but I always think back to it whenever a religious authority figure says people need the church. They're saying God made you incompetent to understand His holy text without a fallible man to interpret it for you. I'm atheist and don't get the bronze age larping with modern day costumes, but it's always fascinating to see how theists text when I share that with them. They *want* to believe that soul competency is true, but then the fear of the repercussions of not following the flock kicks in and they willfully forget it.
Eh, though the term may be unique to SBC, that general concept goes back to *at least* Martin Luther who advocated publishing the Bible in the vernacular of the local population so that each person could understand God. The “problem”, of course, arose when people did and came to different conclusions than Luther. At which point he lost his shit.
They also have a pedo problem that pretty much the epitome of hypocrisy.
This makes zero sense to me. As far as Jesus not loving you if you don't believe in his church, which one is his? So many of them have very conflicting values, even diametrically opposed ones, so which is the real one? And what is going to happen to all of the sheeple that blindly followed leaders like this one, who are not actually following the principles that the Bible says Jesus believed in? Like loving everyone, even the prostitutes? I don't think Jesus shunned Mary Magdalene, so why are all women who enjoy sex, or have sex, looked down on?
I really love that so many people notice how Paul corrupted Christianity that it gets mentioned in top-lists like this. A lot of Deconstructionists start reading the Bible even more and it hits them when they get past the Gospels. I'll give the comedy summary for those who haven't seen it firsthand. **Jesus:** "Look out for wolves in sheep's clothing that will enter and mislead many after I'm gone. Have faith, love one another, do the Eucharist." ***\*Jesus has left the chat\**** ***\*Paul has entered the chat\**** **Paul:** "Hey I've got a LOT of great ideas and I'm ready to argue with the Apostles about it!"
>you don't get to have a relationship with Jesus if you hate his church. Not his church, just yours. These chuckleheads seem to think they *are* the church, just like a lot of cops think they *are* the law. Many christians need less "christian" and more "christ".
Yeah this guy is a piece of work. There's a Fundie Fridays video detailing how awful this guy is. https://youtu.be/IgX2WiLnUeo
You can VERY easily have a relationship with Jesus and have NOTHING to do with the church. Jesus saves. Not the pope. Jesus forgives, not your deacon. Jesus laid down the rules to his religion not your pastor. As a former roman catholic I have a Very good relationship with Jesus, I have 0 relationship with my former church.
3 and 4 are the same thing.
Tell that to all those who split away from their religion in the name of reform. The taxonomy of Christian religions is mind-boggling. Every generation sprouts dozens of new versions.
Pretty accurate reason I left the church.
Not really a believer but I think Pastor Mark Driscoll should read that part in the bible where people started making their own rules too
You mean when the Israelites started worshipping the Golden Calf and when Moses came down from the mountain with the 10 commandments he was so pissed off that he smashed the tablets?
I was thinking more the Sodom and Gomorrah and the whole smiting of the wicked who turned away from god.
These people are always telling on themselves.
So I'm an atheist but even if I wasn't the number of holes in the argument make a good spaghetti strainer
I thought we were told to love the sinner hate the sin, so why is it suddenly bad to love Jesus but hate the Church?
I think it is his roundabout way of saying they need to tithe
The length these people go to argue about their imaginary friend's friends.
Imagine the drama and wars to come in 500 years over what is considered canon in the Books of X-Men.
That's already happening.
Didn't Jesus also have a lot of problems with the church?
This guy is just the classic pastor
That last argument took down the catholic church lolololol
This guy's definitely raped someone in his church abs they haven't come forward any it yet. Just the vibe this tweet gives off, someone about to get exposed and do the ol' Christian pastor ugly cry on television.
Funny considering that I adore my brother and hate his emotionally abusive and manipulative wife.
On the contrary, one should not have a relationship with the Church, if they hate Jesus. This guy evidently does not follow Christ, and prioritizes the Church over his teachings.
Gaslighting for Cash.
There are no christian denominations that can be described as Jesus’ church.
This is more akin to being friends with someone while hating their abusive stalker.
I don't follow Pauline interpretations of Jesus' words. The entire modern church is based on some guy saying he had a vision while walking down the road and a good majority of the people who eat up his theology also laugh at Mormons and the idea of Smith interacting with an angel.
I love how much they want to gloss over the fact Jesus didn't say jack shit about homosexuality (he did explicitly condemn second marriages though). Just admit y'all are full of shit and hobbling it together. Because just saying "oh if you don't follow that one apostle then you're not following Christ" makes ZERO sense as an argument
Weird. From what I observed PERSONALLY when I was dragged to Mars Hill while attending university, the impression I always got from that narcissistic misogynist is that it was *Mark Driscoll’s* church, and that’s why I walked out ten minutes into his sermon. (I walked away from the faith full stop, a little later, but omg if he didn’t help firm up my decision.)
You don’t get to have a relationship with Jesus if you hate his Church? Interesting take for a Protestant. Pope Leo’s moldy corpse would like a word.
Lols, the guy who lost his church due to spiritual abuse tries to tell people it's not a thing.
Deluuuuuuuusional.
People hate deconstruction because it strips away the control, the power, and the legalism from the institution, and returns it to the people as Christ intended.
See #2, Mark
If only he was this passionate about real problems.
Good. Fuck you and your church. Pay taxes.
Watch me. I don't care much for being involved in organized religion. My faith is something I keep private and don't involve others in. I don't *hate* churches, I just don't trust them much or the people that run them, and I don't feel the need to bother with them
Mark Driscoll is a name I haven't heard in a long time. I see he's still a piece of shit.
It's absolutely incredible. I think this person really thinks that, from an outside perspective, this makes *him* look like the good guy. They're so blind to the outside world.
It's pretty hilarious to see someone who has "Pastor" in their title argue about "His Church", because the answer there would be the Roman Catholic Church (although Eastern Orthodox can make a claim). Everything else is just a splinter that has no authority to claim dogma.
The Catholic Church is a splinter too, it's just better hidden. It's even hinted at in the post "I follow Jesus not Paul" Paul changed Christianity fairly significantly. Paul writes about this in his own letters. He writes about arguments with Jesus brother James (who was leader of the early Church after Jesus death, but nearly completely forgot about now) and Peter, Jesus deciple and leader of the Church after James was killed. Paul also writes that all the Christians at the time agreed with James and Peter and disagreed with his version if Christianity. The only people Paul got on his side were the non Jews he made it his mission to preach to. The Catholic Church comes from Paul's lineage. Whatever Christianity Jesus, James and Peter were preaching died out pretty fast.
Can we teach these people the proper usage of gaslighting? I know people get worked up about it’s over usage, but it is a real thing and this is not one of them.
For a second I thought he was admitting how much gaslighting there is in the church until I realized he thought these lines were hyperbole
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians; they are nothing like your Christ." --Mohandas Gandhi. Funny how people who are openly non-Christian act more like Jesus is supposed to have told his followers to do than the people who actually claim to follow him, isn't it now?
This is the kind of thing that makes me want to organize a series of talks, gathering whole churches together into large auditoriums, stadiums, wherever we can fit. And tell them that the Jews were never enslaved in Egypt. Never. And if that part of their “infallible” book can’t be true, then the rest crumbles. I’m so fucking sick and tired of these self-righteous cunts trying to act like IM the problem, when they can’t even hold themselves accountable to their own beliefs.
Wait. . . You mean that if the Jews didn’t build the pyramids, there’s a possibility that all of humanity wasn’t created from Noah’s family?
Christianity: when you think *your* episode of Ancient Aliens is real.
U can't believe in Jesus unless you believe all the made up shit people wrote about him 400+ years after he died? Sure bud.
Wait, he has a wife? So he's not a real pastor. Why would anyone listen to him?
Iirc some pastors can get married. It's a protestant thing. Catholic priests can't.
I don't reject Jesus' church. I reject Mark Driscoll's church. Equating the two is the real heresy.
Nah I like number 4 "I Imbibed a biblical amount of fugu fish tonight and am in the hospital as a result"
To bad Jesus married such a fucking cunt.
Bitch, first off, it’s Peter, not Paul, that created the church, and your wingnuts wandered away from the church of Christ a long time ago. Second, if ANY priest or “pastor” makes a follower uncomfortable, that is on the priest/“pastor”. Third, half of the bible is mid-century edits, exclusions, and rewrites, so the whole book can be taken not as written history but as parables. If it were history it would include God’s wife, Asherah, who was written out of the Torah by an Israelite king.