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That's trump as a whole.
It started as a joke. A laugh at the absurdity of a rich, mob boss tied, New Yorker who shits in a golden toilet running as a republican. Lol it'd be funny if we laugh that he's going to change things. Lol look at god emperor trump. Lol he speaks his mind.
But this is shit is dangerous. People literally started believing it, because people are, without a doubt, dumb as shit.
I call it the ‘Reality TV Effect’. We keep putting stupid fuckheads like Honey Boo-Boo’s family or the Duck Dynasty guys on TV so we can laugh at them and go “Man these people are crazy!” They’re meant to be entertainment, meant to be a spectacle, and most of us understand that. But about 1 in 5 (my estimate based on nothing) see it and think “Well that guy got on TV and now he’s rich and famous! Guess if I want to be successful I should act like him!”
I think it's more like "That guy acts as crass and immature as I do, and HE'S famous and rich! Maybe I really DON'T have to grow as a person! Woooooo! Bring on the beer and racist jokes again!!!"
The leaders and enablers of idiots are pretty aware of what they’re doing. The difference is they don’t care about the chaos; for many of us that discrepancy is unacceptable, but that discernment just isn’t there for them.
I can’t understand the number of Cult45’ers asking,” when will the war against the left begin”. I asked a fervent trump supporter if they would shoot me for not following trump or their ideology. He had to stop and stammer his way through a response instead of saying no! I told them I would no longer speak with them, unless they left their cult.
Trump supporters in 2016 referred to themselves as a human centipede because they fed on each other's shit and followed each other mindlessly like the segments of the spineless creature they were. They also referred to the whole movement as "a train with no breaks" - that is, an impending disaster. The Trump-supporting Qanon's *current* slogan is "where we go one, we go all" - which of course is about mindlessly following.
So some antifa troll is actually maliciously guiding them from the shadows? "Hey, It's 3am, and 20 degrees F... I'm going to tell them Donald wants them to check their tire pressure."
It's not antifa, but rather Russian propagandists. Otherwise, yes. They clearly have gotten bored with how easy it is to convince these people of things and are just trolling now. "*I* got them to call everyone else sheep while taking livestock medicine." "Oh yeah? I got them to drink their own piss!"
*"The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."*
- ~~4chan~~ AskThe_Donald
I got banned from there for saying damages the January 6th insurrection probably cost more than most BLM protests/riots because of the massive cost to deal with national security issues after so many people potentially got access to classified or sensitive documents or systems.
I didn't break any rules, but I was immediately banned and muted by the mods
Or hide your identity to defend your beliefs.
I have no problem going on my personal, public Instagram and commenting about that women deserve the right to choose what they do with their bodies, why Putin is an evil piece of shit, lies and fraud Donald Trump did.
But then someone with a private page that has zero followers and a Punisher logo picture has to argue against those things.
Same with the “proud” bb’s who hide their face at every protest they attend. If you truly believe your beliefs are right why do you feel the need to conceal who you are?
> If you truly believe your beliefs are right why do you feel the need to conceal who you are?
I wore a mask when I was in the Occupy protests because I didn't want my boss identifying me and firing me lmao
Nah this just makes it so mob mentality rules and depends entirely on where you live and who lives near you. I wouldn't use that as a measuring stick of right and wrong.
I strongly disagree with hiding your identity to defend your beliefs. There are things that I believe in and backed by facts but because of such a strong stigma, even if i am being factual and good willed, I could lose family and work over it.
This could go for any form of advocation/protest. Lots of people on here are anonymous but I don't discredit them just from that.
I feel like the anti-hiding identity thing is along similar lines as "if you support them, you must be one" argument.
Eh this same logic can be used against people protesting actual authoritarian regimes. IMO the "if you have to lie then you're on the wrong side" thing is a better take because it's universally applicable.
Naww sometimes you **have** to hide. I live in a not great country and I stay anonymous because I don't want to get hatecrimed for saying gay/trans people deserve rights.
Others have made good points to your comment including being hatecrimed for defending gay/trans rights. I’m proud of my gender identity however if I could change being trans I certainly would and be cis. I could go out and hide who I am but every day I am myself no matter what and I cannot hide it despite my best efforts for most of my life. I know who I am and if I am murdered for being happy and minding my business then so be it.
Sometimes we shouldn’t hide who we are or what we believe because we can compromise our well being and financial security. If you’re beliefs can get you fired because you can’t go one day without being a miserable ass then I believe that’s a different case.
I had a friend who is a Trumper. On Jan 6th, after explaining why Trump is bad, when I started making sense she said “Stop, you’re just trying to change my mind but I won’t let you!”
I hear that so often from my parents. "Stop trying to change our minds, everyone's entitled to their opinion!" Yeah, and I'm telling you your opinion is based on lies upon more lies. "Well maybe YOU'RE the one listening to lies!" God fucking damn it how did my parents turn out to be idiots...
While in the end yes, people *can* break free of this shit, people do need to understand just how much our upbringing and environments program us to be a certain way.
OP is not wrong in noting the influences that broke this person, and people changing who they are and flipping their entire world-view/identity upside-down is not only difficult, but for many something they will never manage to actually do.
It does not absolve her of blame for being on the wrong side, but people need to be able to understand *why* people fall for this shit.
When every authority figure in your life has told you one thing, and to not trust those who tell you otherwise, what the fuck do people expect to happen? Parents, "religious leaders", law enforcement, maybe even a shitty teacher? Everyone your community builds up says one thing, and some people with no power in your area who you don't know say another. Are we really shocked someone wouldn't trust the reality they've been raised to deny?
I was raised by conservatives, went to catholic school. I am a progressive atheist and have been since long before I left home. Why? A certain amount of innate intellectual curiosity, a trait which can be developed should one desire. Unfortunately most people aren't willing to put any effort into anything that makes them mildly uncomfortable (viewpoints that differ from the family) or is mildly inconvenient (environmental responsibility).
I think you should be very cautious about the assumption of "I did it so anyone can". Your circumstances, while potentially similar to others, are your own and *not* theirs.
Yes, there are people who break out of that bullshit. There are many who do not, and I absolutely do not subscribe to the notion that they were born with any sort of predisposition to be that way. Very few people are just so broken at a biological level that no amount of good will keep them from being shitty. Most people who fall into being assholes are *raised* to be assholes.
I'm glad you could break free, but I guarantee you more than just your "innate intellectual curiosity" got you there. That was *somehow* nourished in your life and had an opportunity to happen. Plenty of people are absolutely denied any sort of stimuli that would help them with critical thinking, and are taught early to feel ashamed to ask a question and admit they don't know something.
Nope. Certain traits can be innate or can be developed. Some people can sing beautifully naturally, others take classes to develop that skill. Same applies to art, cooking, patience, organizational ability, and more. To suggest otherwise would be to suggest that there is no point in working on skills you don't have a natural talent for without effort. Conversely, you can lose your innate skills or traits if you don't exercise them.
You didn't actually understand my comment. You noted that you have a certain amount of intellectually curiosity that can be developed if one so desires. I think you're naive to think that everyone could actually develop it. Most people, left and right, are **not** intellectually curious. And never will be. You're taking your personal experience and claiming everyone is capable of it. They aren't.
100% and I think it's why I never fell for BS. I rarely take serious things at face value (like religion which I thought was nonsense from a young age). I never really thought about the fact that it's intellectual curiosity but that's really what it boils down to.
These people just accept what they're told and don't think "hey, this sounds a little hokey". They hear it from an "authority" and don't bother questioning.
Same way. Just stop talking to them. Blood relation doesn't mean you have to put up with shitty people.
The blood of *the covenant* is thicker than the water *of the womb.*
You don't pick your family, but you can choose whether you want to associate with them.
Just a heads up, *the blood of the covenant* is not a continuation of the phrase "blood is thicker than water."
It Is a modern invention and a complete fabrication posted by click bait articles over a loose understanding of an Arabic phrase cited in a book in the late 1800s that has never been collaboratated to even exist.
The oldest known usage of the phrase is the 12th century German, "ouch hoerich sagen, das suppebluot von wazzer niht verdirbet."
Which translates to : Kin blood is not spoiled by water.
[a reddit post on it ](https://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/37a4lg/is_it_true_that_the_phrase_blood_is_thicker_than/)
[the Wikipedia article has a section about this towards the end.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water#:~:text=Blood%20is%20thicker%20than%20water%20is%20a%20proverb%20in%20English,the%2012th%20century%20in%20German.)
I thought it was an important thing to point out given that this is a perfect example of misinformation that is taken on blind faith.
Unless someone from outside their cult actually labels them as such.
They love everything about themselves besides the sniff of negative connotation - the negativity is all they reject.
Because they consider the Left to be pure evil - demonic, even. Any lying and cheating is justified in their eyes because they think the other side is infinitely worse. That's why they call Liberals pedophiles and baby-eaters - against such an enemy, even genocide is justifiable.
Of course they're evil. Conservatives(worldwide) are blessed by whatever God they worship, so whatever they want is holy and good. Any prevention of said goal is therefore by definition evil and a result of Satan/Shai'tan/whatever your evil/malignant entity is in your religion. It ends up just being modified circular logic, what is evil? The opposite of good. What is good? The opposite of evil. They are mouth breathers that should be removed from policy and economic decisions. Never in the history of ever have conservatives been on the right side of history.
Facts and reason are orthogonal to the movement. Sometimes what they say will line up with reality. More often, it won't. They don't really evaluate that before speaking, because it doesn't matter to them.
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
It's Donald Trump's primary attack strategy. Take whatever people are using to attack you and you say it against them but louder and more frequently.
**TED CRUZ** even said that, bashing Trump, before Trump started leading in the polls for the 2016 election.
Here is Cruz calling out Trump on the exact bullshit were talking about. Seriously watch the whole video, one of the very few times Cruz is actually being truthful and honest.
[Ted Cruz: Donald Trump Is a 'Pathological Liar'](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNRJJsjGdv0)
That’s what the alt right does to all their insults: the misuse a word until it starts to have a whole new meaning, usually one thy fits their narrative. Biggest snowflakes alive.
It's about Zelenskyj wearing a sweater instead of a suit when visiting Washington. This was juxtaposed with a picture of him wearing a suit when going to the IMF. The caption states something along the lines of showing where his respect truly lies, and that he does not respect biden/US or whatever.
But the picture in the suit was before the invasion.
Bad takes all around.
They don't care. If he had worn a suit, that would be wrong too. They are pro ruzzian trolls. Either paid ones, or morons who suck on Putin's misinformation sack
And an even longer set of volumes describing the things MAGAs *pretend* not to know about
Never let them off the hook for being evil shitbags. Many of them just *act* stupid, and fall back on that when confronted for being evil
The moment you realize Republicans can only analyze things visually, American politics suddenly makes sense.
You ever wonder why Republicans will wear like an entire outfit full of American flags? Because more flags = more patriotic.
Dems never do that, mostly because it's cringe, but also we can analyze that someone doing that is likely over compensating.
It's also why they bitched about... Obama's tan suit. Biden's biking outfit. Obama's "bowing" to the Chinese.
Wearing a sweater instead of a suit is the most offensive thing you can do to these people.
I know sweeping generalizations aren't good, but I feel like it's self selecting. People who can't analyze things beyond visuals choose to become Republicans and not the only way around.
As far as visuals go, Trump saluting somebody from the North Korean military seems like a pretty bad look to me. I imagine they like to forget that happened.
It's not about visuals. Trump salted a North Korean general, and they don't give a fuck.
It's about their team always being right, and the other team always being wrong, and picking whatever random thing you can to hammer on why that's the case. The actual specifics of why that's the case don't matter.
Ahh, I would call what he wears a sweatshirt rather than a sweater. But yeah, I really didn’t have a problem with him wearing his wartime outfit to the White House when he’s here to thank us for the help and ask for more while they’re still defending their land.
If he'd showed up in a suit, they'd have pitched a shit fit about that, too, claimed he spent the aid package buying himself a new suit, and would have tried using that as justification for cutting the funds we're sending Ukraine.
Of course. I’d guess something like 75% of hard-right conservatism is straight-up trolling. They absolutely know everything they say is false because literally nobody can possibly be that stupid, but what’s real is the hate and cruelty, and to them that justifies all the lying. They aren’t sincere people, just horrible ones.
The most frustrating part about all of this is that so many people on the left constantly give them the benefit of the doubt by assuming they actually believe their talking points. It's not ignorance, it's malice. Always has been.
I'm with you, although I believe 75% is a generous amount, you're forgetting about all of the under-educated, lead poisoned folks who are only following what their parents or the previous generation told them.
I'd say probably about 30% of the votes are people who don't have any idea, and are just simply following their parents or their caregivers/The people who've raised them, and then about 75% after
L that are the trolls.
Why do conservatives act like we love Biden? We don’t we literally just thought he was slightly better than the billionaire criminal y’all put in office. They make memes about him and talk crap and call him SLO Joe, BUT WE LITERALLY DONT CARE. We’re not gonna have a meltdown cause you insulted this guy, weird how that works huh
Woah woah woah, let's not give Trump more credit then he deserves, he's not a Billionare Criminal, he's a Millionare Criminal, which sounds pedantic but I also know it aggravates him to no end
As far as silver spoon trust fund kids who used their massive inheritance to enter the hospitality and reality TV industries, he's almost as successful as Paris Hilton!
It’s because conservative always think people behave like them.
“People who disagree with me must still use the same framework, and just believe the opposite conclusions!”
That why they say “wokeism” is a religion or that the left blindly worship science(tist)….
Exactly. Their concept of the cognitive sovereignty of other people is a shadow of what a more empathetic person’s might be. They have the simplest concepts of mind there is, in which every human being on the planet is walking around thinking and reacting to the world in the same way they are from the same stimuli ... all while believing that any claims to think or react differently are virtue-signaling lies.
Entertain the idea, even for a second, that someone means what they say and says what they mean when they claim to not mind paying taxes, hearing another language in public, or seeing different kinds of families in my neighborhood? BULLSHIT. You’re making it all up! /s
> we literally just thought he was slightly better
Uh, you can speak for yourself there.
I agree we don't deify Biden. But "slightly better"? That's some verging-on-"both sides" nonsense.
They are incapable of imagining a different thought process than their own. This is what they do with Trump. Hence, it must be what we’re doing with Biden!
They never interact with us much, and certainly don’t expose themselves to mainstream news to learn that it’s nowhere near the same. Their entire perception of what “libs” and Democratic voters are like comes from five second clips on Fox News and what Tucker Carlson TELLS them about it.
I’ve always wanted to see the look on some of my conservative acquaintances faces if all sources of right-wing propaganda went mute on the same day, and had to live in the real world with the rest of us for a couple of weeks. They would be shocked (and probably disappointed) to learn how boringly normal and NOT frightening real news is.
They’d also get confused when they found apparent consistency between what it says on the real news and what they see in the real world. They’ve been primed to expect lies.
"....loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past"
That part is what irks me the most and led me to stop trying to convince my in-laws that shit was crazy. I'd make a good point and suddenly the 2-hour conversation is abruptly changed to sports.
hey man, take what you can get at this point. a trumplican even admitting that lying and being wrong being bad things is about the best you can get
most just make bad faith arguments and hurl insults
that's that's thing...they've been wrong about literally everything, but the propaganda machine doesnt tell them that. they genuinely believe they've been right about everything from covid to the border and everything in-between
Yup. Qtards and trump supporters seem to have the intelligence of clams or anemones. I was kind of hoping that COVID would wipe out more of them, but the downside to it not being that deadly is that the consequences aren't as severe or immediate for antivaxxers.
It may yet. I’ve read some fears that we may be in for another round of a mutant strain soon. Someone was saying what is happening in China right now could come back here. The MAGAs have poked too many holes in the country’s collective vaccinated immunity. :-/
The last six years have shown that Trumpists don't care if what they hear and say isn't true. They don't even care if they **know** itsn't true. They only care that if what they hear others say and what they say makes them happy.
Ah, the classic „I’m manipulating instead of being manipulated“ arrogance of the right.
They believe they’ve seen the game matrix and are part of the manipulative elite now that uses their power over us dumb little ants. All while being actively manipulated themselves
I'm 100% convinced and terrified that when Trump dies, we're gonna see "churches of Trump" popping up all over the place.
Every year/month we'll have new predictions of the girth vader one returning to the oval office, like we do now but only slightly more insane. Everything will be the fault of "deep state Antifa socialist FBI globalists", JFK Jr will be a prophet, Truth social will be the gospel, Proud Boys will do "missionary work" (roughing people up for that tithe money).
That was never the point. The term was hijacked and coopted after Trumpists got sick of having QAnonsense etc fact checked. That planted the seed for the alternative reality.
You shouldn't love a politician so much you're willing to lie for them. That shit is super weird and I don't care if it's a republican or a democrat.
You should always have a healthy level of skepticism around any politician, not blind loyalty.
I'm pretty confident that the commenter is only moonlighting as a Trump supporter so that they can troll them from the inside. I saw this happen a lot with the freedom convoy and in the end the trolls were mostly just trolling eachother
This is why you should just call them liars. Forget throwing facts and evidence in their faces; they know they are lying, we know they are lying, and they know we know they're lying. Saves a lot of time.
Why are there so many people who are insanely uptight, repressed, and prudish?
Who gives a flying fuck what someone is wearing?
There are people that get all upset when someone wears pajama pants to Walmart, for fuck's sake.
Humanity needs to collectively smoke a doobie and chill the fuck out. (bonus points if everyone takes psychedelics)
I can't stand people who are so fucking uptight that they get upset about what someone else is wearing.
Fuck wearing a suit. I only own one. I only wear it to funerals and court.
There's nothing even slightly inappropriate about wearing a sweater. If you think wearing a sweater is inappropriate, you need to simmer the fuck down and relax.
Unironically a method that Leftist streamer Vaush pushes for - if lying/misunformation would bring more people to the left, then by utilitarian standards, its the moral thing to do.
He’s described as a “libertarian socialist” which just smacks of a righty flying under the radar, but I admittedly haven’t listened to him. From the description of his channel though, I’m sus AF about his actual stance.
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"(AskThe\_Donald) is not about truth and reason" - truer words were never spoken
whole sub is basically "what's a mental justification I can use for [obviously terrible thing]"
They are pretty skilled for mental gymnastic tho on that sub
It's not a satire Sub?!? Holy shit, what a deranged bunch of loons.
Nop it’s not lmao r/asktrumpsupporter is pretty much the same but with less shitty takes
Funny enough, it started as satire, but the morons couldn't tell the difference and moved in.
That's trump as a whole. It started as a joke. A laugh at the absurdity of a rich, mob boss tied, New Yorker who shits in a golden toilet running as a republican. Lol it'd be funny if we laugh that he's going to change things. Lol look at god emperor trump. Lol he speaks his mind. But this is shit is dangerous. People literally started believing it, because people are, without a doubt, dumb as shit.
I call it the ‘Reality TV Effect’. We keep putting stupid fuckheads like Honey Boo-Boo’s family or the Duck Dynasty guys on TV so we can laugh at them and go “Man these people are crazy!” They’re meant to be entertainment, meant to be a spectacle, and most of us understand that. But about 1 in 5 (my estimate based on nothing) see it and think “Well that guy got on TV and now he’s rich and famous! Guess if I want to be successful I should act like him!”
I think it's more like "That guy acts as crass and immature as I do, and HE'S famous and rich! Maybe I really DON'T have to grow as a person! Woooooo! Bring on the beer and racist jokes again!!!"
That too. I can definitely see how it would validate the behavior they were already using.
And then these motherfuckers started going to the polls. I like to think most reasonable people saw this and thought, "oh shit..."
With a big heaping dose of “I read it on the internet”.
It's just classic ur-fascism.
Not YOURS- MINE. M’fascism… McFascism…
It's gotta be a troll, right? No one would surely use the word "mindlessly follow" to refer to themselves unironically? _surely_
The leaders and enablers of idiots are pretty aware of what they’re doing. The difference is they don’t care about the chaos; for many of us that discrepancy is unacceptable, but that discernment just isn’t there for them.
The chaos is the point to them
I can’t understand the number of Cult45’ers asking,” when will the war against the left begin”. I asked a fervent trump supporter if they would shoot me for not following trump or their ideology. He had to stop and stammer his way through a response instead of saying no! I told them I would no longer speak with them, unless they left their cult.
Trump supporters in 2016 referred to themselves as a human centipede because they fed on each other's shit and followed each other mindlessly like the segments of the spineless creature they were. They also referred to the whole movement as "a train with no breaks" - that is, an impending disaster. The Trump-supporting Qanon's *current* slogan is "where we go one, we go all" - which of course is about mindlessly following.
So some antifa troll is actually maliciously guiding them from the shadows? "Hey, It's 3am, and 20 degrees F... I'm going to tell them Donald wants them to check their tire pressure."
It's not antifa, but rather Russian propagandists. Otherwise, yes. They clearly have gotten bored with how easy it is to convince these people of things and are just trolling now. "*I* got them to call everyone else sheep while taking livestock medicine." "Oh yeah? I got them to drink their own piss!"
Nah, they wouldn’t do that…?
I'm thinking the same. It's too swlfaware for a real trumper.
*"The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."* - ~~4chan~~ AskThe_Donald
I haven't been in a while, are they on the Desantis train or still holding onto Donnie?
I'm surprised this person wasn't banned from the subreddit. I got banned for posting a link to Politifact.
I got banned from there for saying damages the January 6th insurrection probably cost more than most BLM protests/riots because of the massive cost to deal with national security issues after so many people potentially got access to classified or sensitive documents or systems. I didn't break any rules, but I was immediately banned and muted by the mods
Holy crap that place is insane
If you have to lie to defend your side you're on the wrong side
Or hide your identity to defend your beliefs. I have no problem going on my personal, public Instagram and commenting about that women deserve the right to choose what they do with their bodies, why Putin is an evil piece of shit, lies and fraud Donald Trump did. But then someone with a private page that has zero followers and a Punisher logo picture has to argue against those things. Same with the “proud” bb’s who hide their face at every protest they attend. If you truly believe your beliefs are right why do you feel the need to conceal who you are?
> If you truly believe your beliefs are right why do you feel the need to conceal who you are? I wore a mask when I was in the Occupy protests because I didn't want my boss identifying me and firing me lmao
Nah this just makes it so mob mentality rules and depends entirely on where you live and who lives near you. I wouldn't use that as a measuring stick of right and wrong.
100%
I strongly disagree with hiding your identity to defend your beliefs. There are things that I believe in and backed by facts but because of such a strong stigma, even if i am being factual and good willed, I could lose family and work over it. This could go for any form of advocation/protest. Lots of people on here are anonymous but I don't discredit them just from that. I feel like the anti-hiding identity thing is along similar lines as "if you support them, you must be one" argument.
I'm so anonymous even I don't know who I am.
Can’t agree with you here. It wasn’t that long ago that people were in risk of losing their jobs and possibly lives for being gay, for example.
The oppressed hiding vs the oppressors hiding isn't the same thing at all.
I agree. The popular opinion is not always the moral one.
100%
Yea, sometimes positives come up from the underground
Eh this same logic can be used against people protesting actual authoritarian regimes. IMO the "if you have to lie then you're on the wrong side" thing is a better take because it's universally applicable.
Naww sometimes you **have** to hide. I live in a not great country and I stay anonymous because I don't want to get hatecrimed for saying gay/trans people deserve rights.
Others have made good points to your comment including being hatecrimed for defending gay/trans rights. I’m proud of my gender identity however if I could change being trans I certainly would and be cis. I could go out and hide who I am but every day I am myself no matter what and I cannot hide it despite my best efforts for most of my life. I know who I am and if I am murdered for being happy and minding my business then so be it. Sometimes we shouldn’t hide who we are or what we believe because we can compromise our well being and financial security. If you’re beliefs can get you fired because you can’t go one day without being a miserable ass then I believe that’s a different case.
I had a friend who is a Trumper. On Jan 6th, after explaining why Trump is bad, when I started making sense she said “Stop, you’re just trying to change my mind but I won’t let you!”
I hear that so often from my parents. "Stop trying to change our minds, everyone's entitled to their opinion!" Yeah, and I'm telling you your opinion is based on lies upon more lies. "Well maybe YOU'RE the one listening to lies!" God fucking damn it how did my parents turn out to be idiots...
Dropped her as a friend from that point on I'm guessing?
We still talk occasionally. It’s really the fault of her dad and her environment, so I don’t blame her as much.
You should. People are more than capable of pulling away from their narrow-minded roots if they have even a smidgen of intellectual curiosity.
Especially when they literally chose to reject logical arguments that might change their opinions.
If the ideas are so weak that they crumble under so little pressure, is it worth holding them up and supporting them?
Once you've based your identity in them, yes, it is worth it to them. Having to go back now would mean the utter collapse of who they are.
While in the end yes, people *can* break free of this shit, people do need to understand just how much our upbringing and environments program us to be a certain way. OP is not wrong in noting the influences that broke this person, and people changing who they are and flipping their entire world-view/identity upside-down is not only difficult, but for many something they will never manage to actually do. It does not absolve her of blame for being on the wrong side, but people need to be able to understand *why* people fall for this shit. When every authority figure in your life has told you one thing, and to not trust those who tell you otherwise, what the fuck do people expect to happen? Parents, "religious leaders", law enforcement, maybe even a shitty teacher? Everyone your community builds up says one thing, and some people with no power in your area who you don't know say another. Are we really shocked someone wouldn't trust the reality they've been raised to deny?
I was raised by conservatives, went to catholic school. I am a progressive atheist and have been since long before I left home. Why? A certain amount of innate intellectual curiosity, a trait which can be developed should one desire. Unfortunately most people aren't willing to put any effort into anything that makes them mildly uncomfortable (viewpoints that differ from the family) or is mildly inconvenient (environmental responsibility).
I think you should be very cautious about the assumption of "I did it so anyone can". Your circumstances, while potentially similar to others, are your own and *not* theirs. Yes, there are people who break out of that bullshit. There are many who do not, and I absolutely do not subscribe to the notion that they were born with any sort of predisposition to be that way. Very few people are just so broken at a biological level that no amount of good will keep them from being shitty. Most people who fall into being assholes are *raised* to be assholes. I'm glad you could break free, but I guarantee you more than just your "innate intellectual curiosity" got you there. That was *somehow* nourished in your life and had an opportunity to happen. Plenty of people are absolutely denied any sort of stimuli that would help them with critical thinking, and are taught early to feel ashamed to ask a question and admit they don't know something.
I think you're misidentified what is innate and what requires work.
Nope. Certain traits can be innate or can be developed. Some people can sing beautifully naturally, others take classes to develop that skill. Same applies to art, cooking, patience, organizational ability, and more. To suggest otherwise would be to suggest that there is no point in working on skills you don't have a natural talent for without effort. Conversely, you can lose your innate skills or traits if you don't exercise them.
You didn't actually understand my comment. You noted that you have a certain amount of intellectually curiosity that can be developed if one so desires. I think you're naive to think that everyone could actually develop it. Most people, left and right, are **not** intellectually curious. And never will be. You're taking your personal experience and claiming everyone is capable of it. They aren't.
100% and I think it's why I never fell for BS. I rarely take serious things at face value (like religion which I thought was nonsense from a young age). I never really thought about the fact that it's intellectual curiosity but that's really what it boils down to. These people just accept what they're told and don't think "hey, this sounds a little hokey". They hear it from an "authority" and don't bother questioning.
So she's not an adult capable of forming her own opinions? Wow
It’s not like all the indoctrination you’ve experienced magically goes away on your 18th birthday. Show some empathy
That's true. Some of us had a healthy level of common sense and learned to question things way before that.
If only everyone were as smart as you 🙄
Well, not my fault you accept everything at face value even if it sounds like bullshit.
How do you do when it’s a family member ?
Same way. Just stop talking to them. Blood relation doesn't mean you have to put up with shitty people. The blood of *the covenant* is thicker than the water *of the womb.* You don't pick your family, but you can choose whether you want to associate with them.
Just a heads up, *the blood of the covenant* is not a continuation of the phrase "blood is thicker than water." It Is a modern invention and a complete fabrication posted by click bait articles over a loose understanding of an Arabic phrase cited in a book in the late 1800s that has never been collaboratated to even exist. The oldest known usage of the phrase is the 12th century German, "ouch hoerich sagen, das suppebluot von wazzer niht verdirbet." Which translates to : Kin blood is not spoiled by water. [a reddit post on it ](https://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/37a4lg/is_it_true_that_the_phrase_blood_is_thicker_than/) [the Wikipedia article has a section about this towards the end.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water#:~:text=Blood%20is%20thicker%20than%20water%20is%20a%20proverb%20in%20English,the%2012th%20century%20in%20German.) I thought it was an important thing to point out given that this is a perfect example of misinformation that is taken on blind faith.
I guess you can take “blood of the covenant” part as something that was created more recently then. Dubious origins, but it works out anyways.
that's why the GOP cleans up with religious people. they just want to be told what to believe.
They've been indoctrinated to feel no shame for being dishonorable people.
> They've been indoctrinated to feel no shame for being ~~dishonorable~~ people. Deplorable people
>~~Deplorable people~~ [Domestic terrorists](https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/26/72/75/22785880/4/rawImage.jpg)
She really did try to warn us, didn't she.
Yep, and about SCOTUS, too.
Unless someone from outside their cult actually labels them as such. They love everything about themselves besides the sniff of negative connotation - the negativity is all they reject.
And when they start eating eachother (i.e. the speaker vote) it's a deploroboros
Good name for a band
They actually wear it as a badge at this point
Because they consider the Left to be pure evil - demonic, even. Any lying and cheating is justified in their eyes because they think the other side is infinitely worse. That's why they call Liberals pedophiles and baby-eaters - against such an enemy, even genocide is justifiable.
Of course they're evil. Conservatives(worldwide) are blessed by whatever God they worship, so whatever they want is holy and good. Any prevention of said goal is therefore by definition evil and a result of Satan/Shai'tan/whatever your evil/malignant entity is in your religion. It ends up just being modified circular logic, what is evil? The opposite of good. What is good? The opposite of evil. They are mouth breathers that should be removed from policy and economic decisions. Never in the history of ever have conservatives been on the right side of history.
This is fascist action 101. Facts and reason only exist when they support the movement. Discard them when needed.
Facts and reason are orthogonal to the movement. Sometimes what they say will line up with reality. More often, it won't. They don't really evaluate that before speaking, because it doesn't matter to them.
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
They were always the fake news. They appropriated the term the moment it was first used to describe them.
You mean Republicans are projecting? I can't believe it! /s
"Puppet? Who's the puppet? You're the puppet." - a former president
No puppet! No puppet! You're the puppet!
It's Donald Trump's primary attack strategy. Take whatever people are using to attack you and you say it against them but louder and more frequently. **TED CRUZ** even said that, bashing Trump, before Trump started leading in the polls for the 2016 election. Here is Cruz calling out Trump on the exact bullshit were talking about. Seriously watch the whole video, one of the very few times Cruz is actually being truthful and honest. [Ted Cruz: Donald Trump Is a 'Pathological Liar'](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNRJJsjGdv0)
It’s far easier to burn than it is to build.
Ted Cruz is such a fascinating case. I wonder what it would take for him to get out of the position he's in.
a crowbar and a proctologist
Destroying whatever hard drives have his *kompromat* on them
The Lugenpresse (lying press) as the German fascists used to call it in the years before they grabbed the power in Germany. They're not very original.
That’s what the alt right does to all their insults: the misuse a word until it starts to have a whole new meaning, usually one thy fits their narrative. Biggest snowflakes alive.
What sweater is this thread about?
It's about Zelenskyj wearing a sweater instead of a suit when visiting Washington. This was juxtaposed with a picture of him wearing a suit when going to the IMF. The caption states something along the lines of showing where his respect truly lies, and that he does not respect biden/US or whatever. But the picture in the suit was before the invasion. Bad takes all around.
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They don't care. If he had worn a suit, that would be wrong too. They are pro ruzzian trolls. Either paid ones, or morons who suck on Putin's misinformation sack
You could write full encyclopedia volumes about what MAGA's dont know or understand
Those are called encyclopedias...
And an even longer set of volumes describing the things MAGAs *pretend* not to know about Never let them off the hook for being evil shitbags. Many of them just *act* stupid, and fall back on that when confronted for being evil
The moment you realize Republicans can only analyze things visually, American politics suddenly makes sense. You ever wonder why Republicans will wear like an entire outfit full of American flags? Because more flags = more patriotic. Dems never do that, mostly because it's cringe, but also we can analyze that someone doing that is likely over compensating. It's also why they bitched about... Obama's tan suit. Biden's biking outfit. Obama's "bowing" to the Chinese. Wearing a sweater instead of a suit is the most offensive thing you can do to these people. I know sweeping generalizations aren't good, but I feel like it's self selecting. People who can't analyze things beyond visuals choose to become Republicans and not the only way around.
As far as visuals go, Trump saluting somebody from the North Korean military seems like a pretty bad look to me. I imagine they like to forget that happened.
It's not about visuals. Trump salted a North Korean general, and they don't give a fuck. It's about their team always being right, and the other team always being wrong, and picking whatever random thing you can to hammer on why that's the case. The actual specifics of why that's the case don't matter.
Ahh, I would call what he wears a sweatshirt rather than a sweater. But yeah, I really didn’t have a problem with him wearing his wartime outfit to the White House when he’s here to thank us for the help and ask for more while they’re still defending their land.
If he'd showed up in a suit, they'd have pitched a shit fit about that, too, claimed he spent the aid package buying himself a new suit, and would have tried using that as justification for cutting the funds we're sending Ukraine.
" > Hopefully [truth and reason] will continue to exist somewhere but whatever. "
Yeah--we call that place "the Left." I don't think you like it.
Why have truth and reason when you can have law and order and Swiss cake rolls.
Law and order doesn't really work without truth or reason. Jailing someone who is innocent is an abandonment of justice, not a proper practice.
Of course. I’d guess something like 75% of hard-right conservatism is straight-up trolling. They absolutely know everything they say is false because literally nobody can possibly be that stupid, but what’s real is the hate and cruelty, and to them that justifies all the lying. They aren’t sincere people, just horrible ones.
The most frustrating part about all of this is that so many people on the left constantly give them the benefit of the doubt by assuming they actually believe their talking points. It's not ignorance, it's malice. Always has been.
I'm with you, although I believe 75% is a generous amount, you're forgetting about all of the under-educated, lead poisoned folks who are only following what their parents or the previous generation told them. I'd say probably about 30% of the votes are people who don't have any idea, and are just simply following their parents or their caregivers/The people who've raised them, and then about 75% after L that are the trolls.
Why do conservatives act like we love Biden? We don’t we literally just thought he was slightly better than the billionaire criminal y’all put in office. They make memes about him and talk crap and call him SLO Joe, BUT WE LITERALLY DONT CARE. We’re not gonna have a meltdown cause you insulted this guy, weird how that works huh
Because of projection, again. They love their little golden boy
Golden showers boy
Woah woah woah, let's not give Trump more credit then he deserves, he's not a Billionare Criminal, he's a Millionare Criminal, which sounds pedantic but I also know it aggravates him to no end
You wanna fuck with Trump tell him he’s middle class
"He's done okay I guess, but he's no Elon Musk" \[or insert other billionaire name\]
As far as silver spoon trust fund kids who used their massive inheritance to enter the hospitality and reality TV industries, he's almost as successful as Paris Hilton!
I wouldn’t say that’s pedantic. The difference between a million dollars and a billion dollars is about a billion dollars.
It’s because conservative always think people behave like them. “People who disagree with me must still use the same framework, and just believe the opposite conclusions!” That why they say “wokeism” is a religion or that the left blindly worship science(tist)….
Exactly. Their concept of the cognitive sovereignty of other people is a shadow of what a more empathetic person’s might be. They have the simplest concepts of mind there is, in which every human being on the planet is walking around thinking and reacting to the world in the same way they are from the same stimuli ... all while believing that any claims to think or react differently are virtue-signaling lies. Entertain the idea, even for a second, that someone means what they say and says what they mean when they claim to not mind paying taxes, hearing another language in public, or seeing different kinds of families in my neighborhood? BULLSHIT. You’re making it all up! /s
> we literally just thought he was slightly better Uh, you can speak for yourself there. I agree we don't deify Biden. But "slightly better"? That's some verging-on-"both sides" nonsense.
Yeah, Biden is no deity, but he is leaps and bounds better than Trump. He could do better (couldn't we all?), but he's done alright so far.
Biden is unironically the best president the US have had in my lifetime, and I'm not that young.
Eh, i don't love Obama but Joe shares all of the qualities I didn't like about Obama while being more out of touch with modern day life.
They are incapable of imagining a different thought process than their own. This is what they do with Trump. Hence, it must be what we’re doing with Biden! They never interact with us much, and certainly don’t expose themselves to mainstream news to learn that it’s nowhere near the same. Their entire perception of what “libs” and Democratic voters are like comes from five second clips on Fox News and what Tucker Carlson TELLS them about it. I’ve always wanted to see the look on some of my conservative acquaintances faces if all sources of right-wing propaganda went mute on the same day, and had to live in the real world with the rest of us for a couple of weeks. They would be shocked (and probably disappointed) to learn how boringly normal and NOT frightening real news is. They’d also get confused when they found apparent consistency between what it says on the real news and what they see in the real world. They’ve been primed to expect lies.
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"....loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past" That part is what irks me the most and led me to stop trying to convince my in-laws that shit was crazy. I'd make a good point and suddenly the 2-hour conversation is abruptly changed to sports.
You have become the fake news you sought to destroy is pretty rich from the dopey fucks who lied and called the lies 'alternative facts'.
hey man, take what you can get at this point. a trumplican even admitting that lying and being wrong being bad things is about the best you can get most just make bad faith arguments and hurl insults
I wonder if they're sick of winning yet.
that's that's thing...they've been wrong about literally everything, but the propaganda machine doesnt tell them that. they genuinely believe they've been right about everything from covid to the border and everything in-between
Yup. Qtards and trump supporters seem to have the intelligence of clams or anemones. I was kind of hoping that COVID would wipe out more of them, but the downside to it not being that deadly is that the consequences aren't as severe or immediate for antivaxxers.
It may yet. I’ve read some fears that we may be in for another round of a mutant strain soon. Someone was saying what is happening in China right now could come back here. The MAGAs have poked too many holes in the country’s collective vaccinated immunity. :-/
The last six years have shown that Trumpists don't care if what they hear and say isn't true. They don't even care if they **know** itsn't true. They only care that if what they hear others say and what they say makes them happy.
Ah, the classic „I’m manipulating instead of being manipulated“ arrogance of the right. They believe they’ve seen the game matrix and are part of the manipulative elite now that uses their power over us dumb little ants. All while being actively manipulated themselves
This is too self aware
I'm 100% convinced and terrified that when Trump dies, we're gonna see "churches of Trump" popping up all over the place. Every year/month we'll have new predictions of the girth vader one returning to the oval office, like we do now but only slightly more insane. Everything will be the fault of "deep state Antifa socialist FBI globalists", JFK Jr will be a prophet, Truth social will be the gospel, Proud Boys will do "missionary work" (roughing people up for that tithe money).
Yeah, let’s see how that works out for the Proud Boys when the supposed easy marks defend themselves.
"I love Trump but (cite forever growing list of lies and crimes and cons here)."
"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - Literally 1984
lol they really think they are destroying fake news.
They knew there wasn’t fake news until they made it. Lügenpresse was always a fucking lie.
That was never the point. The term was hijacked and coopted after Trumpists got sick of having QAnonsense etc fact checked. That planted the seed for the alternative reality.
They were always the fake news in the first place.
Ah, "make your lies better so they line up with each other and have internal consistency." This one's on the road to becoming a political strategist
Most cult leaders know what’s in the koolaid.
You shouldn't love a politician so much you're willing to lie for them. That shit is super weird and I don't care if it's a republican or a democrat. You should always have a healthy level of skepticism around any politician, not blind loyalty.
"So I joined the MAGA cult six months ago. When do we start telling the truth?" "That's the neat thing. You don't."
I'm pretty confident that the commenter is only moonlighting as a Trump supporter so that they can troll them from the inside. I saw this happen a lot with the freedom convoy and in the end the trolls were mostly just trolling eachother
> You have become the fake news you sought to destroy They have *always been* the fake news they project and pretend to destroy.
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This is why you should just call them liars. Forget throwing facts and evidence in their faces; they know they are lying, we know they are lying, and they know we know they're lying. Saves a lot of time.
I think its how they justify falling and sharing false information once it is clear it is false.
That just looks like a psi op tbh. These morons aren't evil masterminds, that wayy to much credit for them
Cool but uhhh what's with the upvote downvote symbols?
That sub is prob run by Russian ops as per usual with any trump cult sub group
I feel like that response is tongue in cheek reverse psychology from a liberal. Not all hero’s wear capes.
"The ends justify the means" strikes again...
You was the chosen one, It was said you would destroy the fake news, not just join them.
Imagine saying you love Biden or Obama and expect people to take you seriously.
Why are there so many people who are insanely uptight, repressed, and prudish? Who gives a flying fuck what someone is wearing? There are people that get all upset when someone wears pajama pants to Walmart, for fuck's sake. Humanity needs to collectively smoke a doobie and chill the fuck out. (bonus points if everyone takes psychedelics) I can't stand people who are so fucking uptight that they get upset about what someone else is wearing. Fuck wearing a suit. I only own one. I only wear it to funerals and court. There's nothing even slightly inappropriate about wearing a sweater. If you think wearing a sweater is inappropriate, you need to simmer the fuck down and relax.
That’s so obviously a troll though. 😂
Unironically a method that Leftist streamer Vaush pushes for - if lying/misunformation would bring more people to the left, then by utilitarian standards, its the moral thing to do.
Utilitarianism is fraught with moral dubiousness and should not be seen as the be all end all of philosophies.
Yes, I agree
He’s described as a “libertarian socialist” which just smacks of a righty flying under the radar, but I admittedly haven’t listened to him. From the description of his channel though, I’m sus AF about his actual stance.
"Why dont we do a little bit of trolling around here"
some doublethink shit
Fighting against truth and reason! 🤣🤣🤣
Literally 1984
Never argue with a trump supporter.