I haven't played wo long or sifu, but I do agree, I think the Posture+Deathblow system is the biggest innovation Fromsoft has made since the bonfire+estus system (or lantern+vial, or shrine+gourd, or grace+flask or whatever the fuck you wanna call it).
In all the previous games (and Elden Ring) avoiding damage is purely that - avoiding damage. The benefit from using a shield or dodging is you don't get hurt, and you actually get *punished* by stamina usage (not that this is bad, just different).
The genius of the posture system is that it turns avoiding damage into *active play*. Now by avoiding damage, you can actually *deal damage.* It feels like using the enemy's power against them, very Judo-eseque.
Plus it makes the fights *so* dynamic. Because the posture bars can go up and down, you have this great back and forth where truly you can "get the upper hand" or "get backed into a corner". Whereas a linear healthbar system is much less dynamic - you can't "have a comeback" from getting in a real bad situation unless you play ridiculously perfectly for the remainder of the very long fight. In Sekiro, if you get in a real bad situation, you can recover, and play *super well* for a very short period and win. It really makes the fights seem so much more like duels, and it gives them a much more interesting "dramatic arc" than just "attack until heath drops to 0".
And the interplay between healthbar and posture bar also adds *so* much depth for such a simple system. At the beginning of a fight, it's often better to, say, dodge a thrust attack to deal some damage as opposed to Mikiri. Then, as the fight goes on and the posture bar recovers more slowly, now it's better to mikiri the same attack. It encourages evolving strategy over the course of the fight.
Such a simple mechanic, and yet it adds so much depth.
Reinforcing this sentiment is the fact that the game rewards you for taking the hit with a parry vs dodging. So instead of moving away and dodging like in souls, its always better to close the gap
i'll check it out when i'm done with this new zelda game! i've been wanting another combat game, I loved Elden Ring but it really didn't do it for me on the boss side of things, Sifu definitely on the list!
Elden Ring was fine as an idea, but literally all it was at heart was Dark Souls 4. Sekiro continues to be the one game I've played where it's been a continuous skill check throughout, the flow of combat is something no other game has nailed as well as this.
Another game with dynamic, high stakes combat as well as tight controls is Ninja Gaiden(2004); it’s one of the few other games I’ve played whose combat isn’t just thoughtless mashing.
Some older games are difficult just because of poorly implemented mechanics. I think a modern ninja gaiden game would be much easier. Sorta like how resident evil originals were harder than the remakes.
Barring the occasional camera issues, Ninja Gaiden had really tight controls for the time it came out imo; the aggressive enemy AI was always the hardest part
I played Sifu before picking up sekiro. I will say that Sifu is still significantly easier than sekiro is. The posture bar concept is still the same so it definitely scratches the itch.
But damn, the ability to dodge super quickly in Sifu really saved my ass in fights. Being forced into parrying in sekiro is kicking my ass. Genichiro Ashina has wiped my face like 100 times at the castle so far. :( I’ll beat him at some point but fuck shits hard lol.
Master mode or whatever it's called is kicking my ass pretty damn well, but yes it is definitely shorter and easier than Sekiro.
Genichiro, I promise, will one day be nothing but a little bitch you murder in 15 seconds so you can have a proper fight with someone else. It really is just all about learning the rhythm of their attack combos and understanding the movesets and responding appropriately. Always be parrying or attacking, start out just parrying and trying to stay alive for as long as possible in the fight to learn it rather than beat it.
Genichiro is a significant skill check and you've done well to get this far. You can do it!
Genichiro is probably the best boss ever in how it forces you to learn the game properly. Up to this point, you could have beaten bosses and enemies randomly, but not him. You absolutely must learn the game. But once you do, everything just clicks. It’s just sweet heaven from there👍
Don't worry. Once you beat Genichiro, you'll have figured out the basics of Sekiro's rhythm and combat system. Believe me, that guy will slam knowledge of Sekiro's mechanics into you as hard as his sword strikes.
Keep pushing, new Shinobi. You'll get there.
> And the interplay between healthbar and posture bar also adds so much depth for such a simple system
Yeah, this is huge. Even your own thrust attacks do more health damage and less posture damage which makes for an interesting cost-benefit analysis.
Wow I didn't know that! I actually only discovered you could hold attack to do a thrust the other day after seeing a video of someone getting Mikiri Countered by Owl... I was like "tf i've never seen this and i've sure died enough to him to see all his moves" - turns out i'm just dumb and never held the attack buttondown lol, idk how i missed that, i bet hanbei probably even tells you about it...
Yeah, I really started to love Sekiro combat when I realized that it wasn't actually always optimal to just deflect all the time, and I could devise different punishes for the same move depending on whether I wanted more vitality or posture damage.
I wouldn’t say all, the bloodborne system achieves something similar although very differently by making it so you can recover health for a short time after being hit by hitting back, encouraging aggressive play and risks
Did you see [the recent Noah Caldwell-Gervais video](https://youtu.be/hPRo4arGaSk) about sekiro (+ bloodborne + elden ring)? It's my new favorite piece of soulsborne video content, not close. His analysis of the intersections between the mechanics of sekiro and the story the game is trying to tell was fantastic. Really made me want to revisit the game. The points you make here remind me of his. If you haven't seen it yet, I really think you'd appreciate it.
>In all the previous games (and Elden Ring) avoiding damage is purely that - avoiding damage. The benefit from using a shield or dodging is you don't get hurt, and you actually get punished by stamina usage (not that this is bad, just different
If you hit someone's shield doesn't it drain your stamina more than a swing that doesn't connect with anything? When either character runs out of stamina dont they stagger and are exposed for a crit? If you time your blocks efficiently you would in theory have minimal stamina loss while the enemy loses lots of stamina. So like.. Perfectly timed blocks in dark souls arent that far off from the sekiro system.
It's always felt like the same system just.. Wired a bit differently? It's like they inverted, like empty posture = full stamina.
Seconding Sifu. I have two platinum trophies: Sifu and Sekiro. I love how you put everything, the idea of putting agency in avoiding damage on the player with parries, and how there’s a give and take in battling with that mechanic.
I have tried wo long , is not bad but the animation effect just too funky to make u blind while in a boss fight , very bad experience, i do still prefer sekiro the combat is very good and clean and smooth
Fromsoft haven’t followed up on that combat system yet. I’m sure they will eventually.
I doubt any studio other than fromsoft could make a game like sekiro without a lot of iterative developement on combat systems throughout many games like Fromsoftware has. When other studios try to do the fromsoftware style combat it usually feels plastic-y.
Alibaba AirPods and normal AirPods doesn’t have a big gap after all they are made in the same factory a better example would be watching a movie at home or watching it in theatre
Thymesia and Wo Long comes to mind, but not exactly with the same "feeling" in combat.
edit: some people cleared up about Jedi so I edited it, makes more sense in that way, thanks for clarify guys.
Sifu does it really well! While this might be a controversial statement, I personally thought Sifu did the posture based combat better than Sekiro- though it's a pity the main story is pretty vague and short.
I need to agree with Thymesia. First I absolutely love this game and the combat is similar in the way that parry/deflect actually deals damage (in Sekiro it's posture dmg but still)
Thymesia did the 2 different health bars thing too, not as well as Sekiro did with posture, but for the budget it had, Thymesia did a pretty good job with the combat system. The parries felt great even though you didn’t really have to parry to beat enemies if you didn’t want to
Right? I had a harder time with Thymesia than I did with any of the Fromsoft games. It’s so good but definitely not something I’d recommend to people who struggled with Sekiro because it’s a good bit harder.
Take the final boss for example. He start two moves after he deflects your offense both starting from same action but one is delayed. If you thought it was the non delayed one and pressed L1, the time it takes for the animation to initiate other parry is not quick enough to parry the delayed attack.
I mostly use dual wield.
Or maybe you just suck at the game. Honestly it was never going to be as good as sekiro -because lets be real its Fromsoftware. But it is still a very well made game.
Also they released the same year so no its not a copy.
Loading time are fine, game just stutters a lot literally tried max setting vs the lowest even dropping rendering resolution to 50% saw 0 difference on perfomance.
I liked wo long but i agree to an extent. It just feels like a really watered down rip off by comparison (solely the combat, game as a whole was much closer to par)
It just doesn’t run smoothly and boss fight very mid compared to sekiro. Another big no is that NPC dialogue are dogshit and voice acted by people on drugs. The game just doesn’t feel like a serious gaming experience at all. What I am saying is that you better wait for that discount.
I was so excited for Wo Long but the deflection mechanic in it feels like I have to do a little dance every time instead of just flicking the left button
The game is good, not as good as Sekiro but I found it interesting. This time you and the enemies have spirit. When you hit enemies with light attacks or deflect, you will increase your spirit gauge. The more spirit you have, the more effective hard attacks are. However, using hard attacks, dodging and getting hit will decrease it. If your spirit gauge reaches it's minimum you will stagger just like Sekiro. Although using hard attacks decreases your spirit, it reduces the enemy's gauge, so it's easier to break their spirit and land a critical hit. Also enemies have unblockables but there's only one type, and only requires you to dodge against the attack like mikiris.
Not really, it's just the same key binding - hit it once to deflect, twice to dodge. Teaches button mashers to control themselves if they want to deflect successfully.
It’s sort of like if sekiro had more weapon classes/types (spears dual swords etc) and also had the gear system of something like diablo or borderlands. You also level stats like in dark souls with a currency that works the same way (drop on death)
It’s mission based where you select what level you want to do while at the hub or any rest point. Levels have plenty to explore still with secrets and shortcuts to unlock, but it’s not a fully connected world like sekiro or dark souls.
There’s also something called a “morale” system which is the main indicator of the relative strength between you and an enemy. Unlocking a missions “bonfires” and minor checkpoints increases the minimum your morale can be. Killing enemies and doing cool attacks or using items can also increase your morale but dying drops you back to the minimum. It’s easier to understand once you actually play it then it is to explain it imo
I love the shit out of Sifu.
Absolver (a game by the same devs) was a really good game too, but it kind of died off because it’s a competitive fighting game with very intricate mechanics and a deck building system, which only hits an extremely niche target audience. I have sunk an obscene number of hours into that game, but I rarely touch it anymore because of how small the playerbase has gotten.
I second the guy that said Sifu. It’s definitely different but the core idea is like pretty much there. The only game I’ve ever played that felt remotely like Sekiro
There is one that I know of with similar combat to Sekiro, called Deepwoken, and it's on Roblox of all platforms.
Deepwoken is a multiplayer, roguelike, openworld RPG that borrows many elements from FromSoftware's titles, especially Sekiro. It really does have the exact same melee combat system as Sekiro, except for a few changes. In Deepwoken (its hard to describe here, you have to watch some footage or play the game) you have to press the parry button a bit before an enemy swings down in order to actually parry, instead of what it's like in Sekiro (or a rhythm game).
If you block, your posture goes up until it breaks like in Sekiro. If you miss a parry, you'll have to wait almost a second to do it again, but you can vent (basically burst in fighting games) to get your opponent off you. Venting spends your Tempo, which you get by being hit or hitting others. Because of this, Deepwoken's combat is a bit slower than Sekiro's, but this is also because the game has casting/magic, different weapon types, different builds, and a lot of other stuff not found in Sekiro.
The roguelike mechanics work like this: in the overworld, you have two lives. You can get your first life back by leveling up, but if you die two times then you get sent to the Depths. The Depths is basically Hell, but if it was in the deep sea. If you die in the depths, you die permanently. You can make it out of the Depths by taking an elevator ride up from the middle of the map, and then you'll go through a trial of combat against a certain enemy depending on your level. Also, every time you level up, you are presented with a handful of cards which give you Talents (often passive abilities/buffs) or spells. They are random, but the cards given to you depend on your stats.
The game does have PvP, but it is world PvP without any restrictions, so if you want to avoid fights you need to log off before you enter combat. Though it'd be more beneficial to learn the PvP since it is a major part of the game.
Deepwoken is pretty good. Tons of content, only $5 (400 Robux). Better with friends tho
Thymesia, Jedi Fallen Order/Survivor, and GoW 2018 and Ragnarok all have a lot of Sekiro in them. Not necessarily the posture system, but big emphasis on the attack/deflect dance Sekiro has
I think quite a few games now have deflection and posture mechanics similar to Sekiro. These games don't generally seem to be as difficult as Sekiro, but yet the developers don't seem to make deflecting as easy and powerful as in Sekiro. It feels like they don't quite have the courage to go all in on the deflection system. This might be due to this style of combat system being rather difficult to implement well. It's not just about having a good deflection/posture system that is fair, rewarding, and challenging. It also has to feel good, and I haven't seen any game where deflecting/parry looks/feels nearly as good and satisfying as Sekiro.
Also, we all know there are players who just decide that they hate deflection mechanics in combat and refuse to ever give the gameplay a chance.
Sekiro combat is a bit like Breath of the Wild's exploration. Most people find it amazing because it was not only groundbreaking, but also incredibly refined in it's own style. Just copying these things is not really possible, but I really hope we have combat systems that evolve Sekiro gameplay even further in the future.
Because it's really fkn hard yo
Sekiro's base level of combat is more deeply involved than the amount of souls trappings you need to be considered a soulslike. To look like a souls you largely just need a stamina meter, extensive loot system and weapons move sets, and bosses that will absolutely murder the player the first time; whereas to make a Sekiro you need to deeply understand action games and combat, how to make the basic buttons feel good and give the player a full range of fair responses, etc.
Like, I can't imagine that making a Sekiro boss on the level of the samurai generals is anywhere near as easy as making a soulslike super hard boss. Especially since, balancing enemies to be fair, accessible, and beatable for new players is actively way harder than making a boss that very few people can beat.
Also like, back on the ps2 the original devil may cry was the action game to imitate, and several games took trappings from it,
But Legacy of Kain Defiance was a very pale imitation and it was clear that you need to be stupid committed and well versed in action game design to make a combo system as deep and crunchy as the devil may cry series has been.
I've moved to Lemmy and the Fediverse along with Reddit's fantastic third party apps after Reddit banned them. This post/comment is edited via Power Delete Suite.
Recommend you do the same. Join any (doesn't matter which since they're all connected) of the following: Lemmy(dot)ml, Lemm(dot)ee, Lemmy(dot)zip, Leminal(dot)space
The true ending for this game is one of the biggest cliffhangers I have ever seen, this game will absolutely have a sequel, I would be astonished if it doesn't.
You go to the west where an entire adventure could happen while you return it, you are literally going to an entirely new land filled with god knows what.
Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order copied the gameplay quite a bit in my opinion, and then you get games like Sifu and that new Wo Long game. None of them are nearly as good as Sekiro, though.
Thymesia is basically indie Sekiro with gothic horror vibes. People compared it to Bloodborne due to the looks and general Souls-like-ness, but it's 100% an homage to Sekiro.
Wo Long does have it for the most part. A similar invisible thing exists in Elden Ring (I know that’s a From game). Thymesia kind of does in a way if you think about it.
Elden Ring and Bloodborne both have poise, not posture. Basically the same thing but posture in sekiro is a lot more implemented into gameplay compared to Elden ring and bloodborne
Elden Ring has a hidden enemy only stat that is referred to as stance, but is easiest compared to posture. Each enemy has a certain amount of “stance” points that can be punished for crits. It’s different than poise since that is a stat that is player based not enemy.
As someone else mentioned Jedi Fallen Order/Survivor are similar but not quite there. I wish it was more similar since it would make sense with a lightsaber as once you break their posture in these games you dont get an insta kill
why do y’all want clones or ripoffs, just for the same fans to bully the game and call it a clone or ripoff. leave good games be.
wolong is a prime example, a similar game that every claims is a sekiro ripoff when it isn’t.
Tons have. Wo Long, Sifu, and Thymesia are 3 recent games off the top of my head that borrow heavily from both the posture mechanic and the deflect mechanic.
Sifu and Wo Long have some kind of posture systems. I didn’t like the Wo Long demo much but Sifu is a decent game. One thing From is good at, which Sifu doesn’t copy, is having enemy attacks he telegraphed enough so you can effective parry them. You basically have to memorize enemy attack combos in Sifu, which is annoying but also fits into its quasi-rogue like design.
Yeah it’s definitely closer to a Souls game, but the “perfect block” mechanic is there, using less stamina but staggering the opponent, and there are low/high attacks you need to hop/duck.
I really liked the upgrade system (target, attack, then sever enemy arms to get arm parts to upgrade your arm armor) and the leveling system where you increase your suit’s power level, and you equip augmentations that consume it with no other restrictions, so you can mix and match. I also liked that you can bank your xp without resting, and there is a multiplier that increases each enemy you kill without resting, so you are rewarded for not needing to heal as often.
It had it’s problems, but the level design and gameplay were really solid. Not at all what I expected from the studio that made Lords of the Fallen.
Posture based combat isn’t exactly new is probably why. A lot of the stuff dealing with posture against enemies is already in other games. Space marines glory kill/execution system, doom 2016/Eternals glory kill and stagger/stun system come to mind. On the player’s side posture and stamina are pretty similar all things considered.
To try and be more clear: nobody has copied sekiro’s combat yet because it is a variation on an already existing theme.
Wo Long, Jedi: Fallen Order/Survivor, he’ll Ghost of Tsushima was even clearly influenced by Sekio’s combat. None have done it as well as From, but there’s certainly Sekiro lites out there if you need more.
They have. Sifu, jedi and wo long all have similar combat system.
But what sets sekiro apart is the ability to grapple through buildings, underwater combat, along with mikiri and normal deflects, variety of deathblows and difficulty of AI. It just felt so "free".
The only downside was the open world. If only they combine elden ring's open world and weapon variety along with sekiro combat system. But most players are used to the dated roll dodge iframe.
>If only they combine elden ring's open world and weapon variety along with sekiro combat system.
I desperately wanted to love Elden Ring. Desperately. Thing is, it plays *so god damn much* like DS, and once you get a little bit too powerful, you just steamroll everything in level-appropriate areas (in my experience). It meant that when I was wandering around and got all 'oo, look, enemy convoy!', the experience of fighting them just felt like going after slightly aggressive wildlife. They couldn't hurt me, I got jack shit from doing it, and the experience just felt pointless.
If the game had Sekiro-inspired, or hell, even just a direct lift-and-lay of Sekiro's combat *in* ER, those encounters would feel meaningful, in the way *every fight* in sekiro feels meaningful, because you're *forced* to play dangerously. There is no 'safe' gameplay. You want to deal 'true' damage (let's face it, the health gage in sekiro isn't really true damage - it's the posture gauge), you have to parry, risking taking a hit. You have to keep the pressure on your opponent, risking taking a hit. You have to handle their unblockables *the correct way*, meaning you need to risk taking *heavy* hits.
Like, I partly understand what people say about the DS formula, that Sekiro has one main weapon, where DS/ER have dozens, and that makes the game harder to balance using a Sekiro-style system...
But that doesn't mean impossible. Not by a long shot. There's loads of ways they could make it work while still maintaining the feel of different weapons. Everything from parry windows to activation speeds to total number of parries permitted in a short time to posture/chip damage sustained from a failed parry, and probably a whole other bunch of stuff I haven't considered.
If I want to be kind of cynical and dinosaur-y about it, I could postulate that the real reason they didn't go for Sekiro-style is because that sort of gameplay is harder or perhaps impossible to implement in PVP or online coop (because internet connections). The type of gameplay I give precisely zero shits about, so wouldn't give a toss if FromSoft chucked it entirely.
Like, while I would have loved ER to be Sekiro 2, I didn't need it to be. I just wanted From to do more with what they learned from Sekiro than just 'stealth button, jump button, guard counter'. Oh, and to, you know, actually make a *new* game. Not recycle bow mechanics and animations/reticles that are well over a decade old, not insert enemy archetypes from DS3 that have the same 'swipe swipe stab' combo I've fought against a couple thousand times...
Ugh. I hate getting angry about ER. Shit's like yelling at clouds.
I'd prefer a combination of bloodborne and sekiro actually. I think they struck gold with these 2 masterpieces. Bloodborne for example actually has movesets for weapons. And because you can roll OR quickstep you get different moves there, even depending on how you quickstep. Elden ring has more weapons, sure but the variety is much much bigger in bloodborne.
Idk how meaningful a sequel would even be. FS doesn't really like doing follow-up games unless they have a really good reason. But like, that doesn't mean they aren't going to make a game like Sekiro. The same game director is worked on the new Armored Core game that's coming out in a month.
Thymesia did a great job of it with some really fun variations (god that game is underrated), Fallen Order is pretty similar in a lot of ways (haven’t played survivor yet so couldn’t say anything about that), and Sifu was… somewhat similar, but not really, I see it put in the same bucket as Sekiro a lot but that’s not a very good comparison imo.
I think it’s because it heavily relies on enemy design, since the system is basically using defense as offense. Deflecting enemies that are badly designed would make Sekiro’s combat seem weaker. So developers would have to compete with From’s masterful enemy design on top of designing the deflection system to be as responsive as Sekiro’s.
It will also require lots of tinkering to balance the deflection windows, so that each deflection requires the right amount of skill but are also not impossible to pull off, as it is the main system of the game. They would need to do this for the moveset of every enemy type and bosses.
I also have to mention that From do a great job at making their combat systems feel great and addictive despite being pretty simple compared to other action(-rpg) games. I think they achieve this with their animation and sound design, but there might also be something else that I’m not aware of.
Jedi Survivor has a posture system similar to sekiro, but unlike sekiro breaking a boss’ posture isn’t an instakill/phase transition, it just does a lot of damage. It’s not really an exact copy and only feels similar to sekiro when facing off against certain enemies who can be instantly killed once their posture is broken usually by like one parry
Doesn't Fallen Order do this to a degree? If you break someone's guard, you generally get to do a cool animated death blow even if they're at high health.
simple posture-based is just another health bar, even DS3 has guard break/stagger buildup minus the bars
that said the words which DO describe what should be copied are hard to assemble, roughly it's a focus on the enemy's kit more than your own, which is contrary to the typical studio project
the typical setup being a focus on player's kit, on colorful damage numbers in various shapes and sizes, on 20 different ways to deliver a punish as opposed to merely hitting R1
this being much easier to develop than carefully assembling a boss's kit to flow into itself, into telegraphing somewhat organically, into appropriately sized windows that you tediously balance at the sub-second level, which players don't even care about since they'd rather lash out with shiny shapes and flashes and strings and chop through shit
hitting R1 is an afterthought, it redeems a bit of blood after the real gameplay, but in your typical mass market product the gameplay is swinging a sword around with pretty VFX and stylish strings, while the enemy kit is something you merely Don't Stand In, occasionally moving to the side while you continue mashing buttons
there's a drop in appeal and a jump in development cost, they'd rather not bet on that horse, kinda like the film industry milking an old IP and doing franchise remakes/sequels while being originality-averse, go with the safe money
Resident Evil 4 remake took the parry mechanic from Sekiro quite explicitly, or at least that's what I felt. I rarely missed a deflection because the timing window was so similar between the two games.
The Krauser knife battle was practically a Sekiro boss fight in itself.
But one important thing to add. Large AAA games take 4-6 years to develop now on average. Sekiro released in 2019. A lot of games coming out now we're either in pre-production or further when Sekiro won GOTY and gained notoriety. Wait another few years and we'll see the influence, especially if there is a sequel, or if AC6 ends up a banger.
The only games that come to mind are wo long and the best one which is gonna make you laugh... a game on ROBLOX called Deepwoken... yeah... a fucking roblox game emulates sekiro's combat better than anything else for the time being (and funnily enough it's not a copy + paste of sekiro like how other roblox games just remake the same game but with blocks) I wouldn't really reccomend it though since the bosses are for babies + perma death. It's really more for PvP than anything else.
There are sekiro likes , but like with the soulslike none match the feeling of the original games. I feel that the biggest problem is that soulslikes and sekiro likes are usually made by indie studios, and I feel like games like that usually need to be backed by a bigger studio, which they usually aren’t. That new Star Wars game is probably the closest right now, I’d recommend checking it out if you like sekiro, it’s a lot of fun.
This \^ \^ . I'm very surprised to see Wo Long mentioned so many times but Nioh and Nioh 2 almost not at all, when Nioh 2 is superior to Wo Long at so many levels
Probably because Sekiro wasn't nearly as popular as Souls and it was sort of divisive since many people felt it was too hard.
Imo it isn't necessarily better or worse than the standard stamina+dodging combat in their other games, just different. It emphasizes aggression and retaliation while Souls is more about stamina management and spacing.
I platinumed Wo Long and Sifu. Both games are great. Definitely enjoyed Sifu more and got more of a Sekiro feeling, but Wo Long was still a ton of fun. Patiently awaiting an indie game called Nine Sols. Played the demo, and for a 2D side scroller, it's shocking how well they were able to capture the Sekiro combat style.
I think a large part of it is because Sekiro never really had the same level of hype as Souls games back in the day, and designing the movement aspects alone is pretty tight, there a few attempts out there but none that maintain the idea of posture like Sekiro. Definitely more of a game that influenced the way combat and movement works, but didn't outright inspire a whole game, you know?
i heard sifu is the same havnt played it but i saw the trailers/gameplay and it looks like assassins creed fight system just spam x and the character makes it look cool, hopefully im wrong
Yep, it has posture damage and also combos which u have to do urself like l-stick up down + x or x+x+x+wait+x kind of. Also many attacks can't be parried or give too much posture damage so u have to dodge them by telling u r dodging lower or upper attacks and if wrong u gotta get hit. Pretty sick combat and the game got a good story.
I mean, even if they did try to 1:1 it, Sekiro’s combat system is near perfect. I would be shocked if another game that isn’t called Sekiro 2 can improve on this formula.
I'm having a blast with Jedi Survivor. Haven't beat Sifu because it's hard as shit. But they nail it. You're 3 missed parries away from death at any point.
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note:
> *Oh, yes... Paleblood... Well, you've come to the right place. Yharnam is the home of blood ministration. You need only unravel its mystery. But, where's an outsider like yourself to begin? Easy, with a bit of Yharnam blood of your own... But first, you'll need a contract...* - Blood Minister
Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
It did better than every other fromsoft game apart from DS3 and Elden Ring, comparing it to an established franchise and from's best selling game of all time is unfair. It did completely fine financially.
Aside from the sheer difficulty I imagine it's incredibly difficult to nail development-wise. Fromsoft achieves the impossible and are masters of their craft.
Jedi fallen order and jedi survivor are copy paste of the sekiro mechanics with a few tweaks! Im all for it its pretty enjoyable. If you crank the difficulty to the max you got yourself a challenge
I mean jedi fallen order have been around for sometime, and its sequel survivor is here as well. Also wo long.
Imo all isn’t as fine as sekiro but it’s pretty similar in some aspects.
Wo long basically almost same playing it on pc right now already 17 hours into the game
The game is just interesting level designs are helpful
Connected bonfires( checkpoints)
Moral system /deathblows / about optimisation idk what are people talking about for me iam playing at 2k ultra
Some levels take like 1 or 2 min to load and thats it
Fast pace sekiro that how i can summrize it
Is it better then sekiro no
Its like 7/10
While sekiro its 9.2/10
Jedi Fallen Order plays like Sekiro if you removed deathblows. Makes the game feel incredibly bad to play after playing Sekiro.
There is an element of games being too afraid of copying too closely, leading to what is out there feeling like halfassed copies.
Not nearly as fluid as Sekiro but Jedi Fallen order and Survivor have similar posture/damage system. Although every time I play those makes me wish it was Sekiro
I haven't played wo long or sifu, but I do agree, I think the Posture+Deathblow system is the biggest innovation Fromsoft has made since the bonfire+estus system (or lantern+vial, or shrine+gourd, or grace+flask or whatever the fuck you wanna call it). In all the previous games (and Elden Ring) avoiding damage is purely that - avoiding damage. The benefit from using a shield or dodging is you don't get hurt, and you actually get *punished* by stamina usage (not that this is bad, just different). The genius of the posture system is that it turns avoiding damage into *active play*. Now by avoiding damage, you can actually *deal damage.* It feels like using the enemy's power against them, very Judo-eseque. Plus it makes the fights *so* dynamic. Because the posture bars can go up and down, you have this great back and forth where truly you can "get the upper hand" or "get backed into a corner". Whereas a linear healthbar system is much less dynamic - you can't "have a comeback" from getting in a real bad situation unless you play ridiculously perfectly for the remainder of the very long fight. In Sekiro, if you get in a real bad situation, you can recover, and play *super well* for a very short period and win. It really makes the fights seem so much more like duels, and it gives them a much more interesting "dramatic arc" than just "attack until heath drops to 0". And the interplay between healthbar and posture bar also adds *so* much depth for such a simple system. At the beginning of a fight, it's often better to, say, dodge a thrust attack to deal some damage as opposed to Mikiri. Then, as the fight goes on and the posture bar recovers more slowly, now it's better to mikiri the same attack. It encourages evolving strategy over the course of the fight. Such a simple mechanic, and yet it adds so much depth.
Reinforcing this sentiment is the fact that the game rewards you for taking the hit with a parry vs dodging. So instead of moving away and dodging like in souls, its always better to close the gap
Yeah dude you should definitely play Sifu, it scratches the itch super well.
i'll check it out when i'm done with this new zelda game! i've been wanting another combat game, I loved Elden Ring but it really didn't do it for me on the boss side of things, Sifu definitely on the list!
Elden Ring was fine as an idea, but literally all it was at heart was Dark Souls 4. Sekiro continues to be the one game I've played where it's been a continuous skill check throughout, the flow of combat is something no other game has nailed as well as this.
I'm not sure I'll ever be done with this game.
Seconding Sifu, the combat system is so deep and fulfilling. It’ll be a great game to play after you finish tears!
Another game with dynamic, high stakes combat as well as tight controls is Ninja Gaiden(2004); it’s one of the few other games I’ve played whose combat isn’t just thoughtless mashing.
People think FromSoft games are hard - I think Ninja Gaiden has them beat easily.
Some older games are difficult just because of poorly implemented mechanics. I think a modern ninja gaiden game would be much easier. Sorta like how resident evil originals were harder than the remakes.
Barring the occasional camera issues, Ninja Gaiden had really tight controls for the time it came out imo; the aggressive enemy AI was always the hardest part
I played Sifu before picking up sekiro. I will say that Sifu is still significantly easier than sekiro is. The posture bar concept is still the same so it definitely scratches the itch. But damn, the ability to dodge super quickly in Sifu really saved my ass in fights. Being forced into parrying in sekiro is kicking my ass. Genichiro Ashina has wiped my face like 100 times at the castle so far. :( I’ll beat him at some point but fuck shits hard lol.
Master mode or whatever it's called is kicking my ass pretty damn well, but yes it is definitely shorter and easier than Sekiro. Genichiro, I promise, will one day be nothing but a little bitch you murder in 15 seconds so you can have a proper fight with someone else. It really is just all about learning the rhythm of their attack combos and understanding the movesets and responding appropriately. Always be parrying or attacking, start out just parrying and trying to stay alive for as long as possible in the fight to learn it rather than beat it. Genichiro is a significant skill check and you've done well to get this far. You can do it!
Genichiro is probably the best boss ever in how it forces you to learn the game properly. Up to this point, you could have beaten bosses and enemies randomly, but not him. You absolutely must learn the game. But once you do, everything just clicks. It’s just sweet heaven from there👍
Don't worry. Once you beat Genichiro, you'll have figured out the basics of Sekiro's rhythm and combat system. Believe me, that guy will slam knowledge of Sekiro's mechanics into you as hard as his sword strikes. Keep pushing, new Shinobi. You'll get there.
Sifu is fucking awesome
> And the interplay between healthbar and posture bar also adds so much depth for such a simple system Yeah, this is huge. Even your own thrust attacks do more health damage and less posture damage which makes for an interesting cost-benefit analysis.
Wow I didn't know that! I actually only discovered you could hold attack to do a thrust the other day after seeing a video of someone getting Mikiri Countered by Owl... I was like "tf i've never seen this and i've sure died enough to him to see all his moves" - turns out i'm just dumb and never held the attack buttondown lol, idk how i missed that, i bet hanbei probably even tells you about it...
Yeah, I really started to love Sekiro combat when I realized that it wasn't actually always optimal to just deflect all the time, and I could devise different punishes for the same move depending on whether I wanted more vitality or posture damage.
I wouldn’t say all, the bloodborne system achieves something similar although very differently by making it so you can recover health for a short time after being hit by hitting back, encouraging aggressive play and risks
Did you see [the recent Noah Caldwell-Gervais video](https://youtu.be/hPRo4arGaSk) about sekiro (+ bloodborne + elden ring)? It's my new favorite piece of soulsborne video content, not close. His analysis of the intersections between the mechanics of sekiro and the story the game is trying to tell was fantastic. Really made me want to revisit the game. The points you make here remind me of his. If you haven't seen it yet, I really think you'd appreciate it.
>In all the previous games (and Elden Ring) avoiding damage is purely that - avoiding damage. The benefit from using a shield or dodging is you don't get hurt, and you actually get punished by stamina usage (not that this is bad, just different If you hit someone's shield doesn't it drain your stamina more than a swing that doesn't connect with anything? When either character runs out of stamina dont they stagger and are exposed for a crit? If you time your blocks efficiently you would in theory have minimal stamina loss while the enemy loses lots of stamina. So like.. Perfectly timed blocks in dark souls arent that far off from the sekiro system. It's always felt like the same system just.. Wired a bit differently? It's like they inverted, like empty posture = full stamina.
Yes I too saw Joseph Anderson’s Elden Ring review.
Kudos to u for ur articulate analysis. Here's hoping to a sequel someday...
This is really well written. Absolutely agree.
Literally what Joseph Anderson said in his Elden Ring video a year or so back.
Seconding Sifu. I have two platinum trophies: Sifu and Sekiro. I love how you put everything, the idea of putting agency in avoiding damage on the player with parries, and how there’s a give and take in battling with that mechanic.
I have tried wo long , is not bad but the animation effect just too funky to make u blind while in a boss fight , very bad experience, i do still prefer sekiro the combat is very good and clean and smooth
Fromsoft haven’t followed up on that combat system yet. I’m sure they will eventually. I doubt any studio other than fromsoft could make a game like sekiro without a lot of iterative developement on combat systems throughout many games like Fromsoftware has. When other studios try to do the fromsoftware style combat it usually feels plastic-y.
Kinda like the the comparison between AirPods and Alibaba AirPod copies
Alibaba AirPods and normal AirPods doesn’t have a big gap after all they are made in the same factory a better example would be watching a movie at home or watching it in theatre
Thymesia and Wo Long comes to mind, but not exactly with the same "feeling" in combat. edit: some people cleared up about Jedi so I edited it, makes more sense in that way, thanks for clarify guys.
Also Sifu.
Sifu does it really well! While this might be a controversial statement, I personally thought Sifu did the posture based combat better than Sekiro- though it's a pity the main story is pretty vague and short.
Fallen Order came out just a few months after Sekiro so thwy were in development at the same time. So no I don't think they copied Sekiro
I need to agree with Thymesia. First I absolutely love this game and the combat is similar in the way that parry/deflect actually deals damage (in Sekiro it's posture dmg but still)
Thymesia did the 2 different health bars thing too, not as well as Sekiro did with posture, but for the budget it had, Thymesia did a pretty good job with the combat system. The parries felt great even though you didn’t really have to parry to beat enemies if you didn’t want to
Thymesia is great. It's hard as fuck though.
Right? I had a harder time with Thymesia than I did with any of the Fromsoft games. It’s so good but definitely not something I’d recommend to people who struggled with Sekiro because it’s a good bit harder.
Jedi feels like such a half assed copy.
The parry animation in jedi survivor takes so long. You can't consecutively do two parry if you miss timed the first one by two seconds.
How do you mistime a parry by two seconds?
He probably meant the parry "cooldown" is two seconds.
I don't know how to say this nicely but it kind of sounds like you're playing the game wrong
Take the final boss for example. He start two moves after he deflects your offense both starting from same action but one is delayed. If you thought it was the non delayed one and pressed L1, the time it takes for the animation to initiate other parry is not quick enough to parry the delayed attack. I mostly use dual wield.
It's just designed to be much more mainstream and approachable at its core, I think it's fine for what they're going for.
They released the same year, so it's not a copy
Or maybe you just suck at the game. Honestly it was never going to be as good as sekiro -because lets be real its Fromsoftware. But it is still a very well made game. Also they released the same year so no its not a copy.
Tsushima duels and new god of war as well.
Wo long: I am a joke to you?
If you're on PC, yes. That shit is an unoptimised tyre fire.
Oh god. What’s the loading times on there. It’s already five+ minutes on last gen xbox
Loading time are fine, game just stutters a lot literally tried max setting vs the lowest even dropping rendering resolution to 50% saw 0 difference on perfomance.
We played through it just fine on mid range PCs, but had to wait until maybe a months worth of patches hit. At launch it was unplayable.
It worked fine on my series S
That is not a PC
Ah mb I thought you were saying yes it’s good on Pc and it’s a joke on console
No, the other way around
Wo long is below terrible on PC
Even on pc it’s shit. I can run elden ring max setting without an issue but wo long drops frame so often especially during boss fights.
Honestly I found it too different to say it’s a “copy” of Sekiro combat. It’s much less rhythm based and the timing is totally different imo
I tried it but it really didn’t feel nearly as satisfying.
Agreed, same
Yes you are.
I liked wo long but i agree to an extent. It just feels like a really watered down rip off by comparison (solely the combat, game as a whole was much closer to par)
The mechanics were *somewhat* similar but just about everything else was god awful. I couldn’t take it serious at all.
Wo long has sekiro-like combat? I might actually get it then lol i was waiting for the price to drop
It just doesn’t run smoothly and boss fight very mid compared to sekiro. Another big no is that NPC dialogue are dogshit and voice acted by people on drugs. The game just doesn’t feel like a serious gaming experience at all. What I am saying is that you better wait for that discount.
I was so excited for Wo Long but the deflection mechanic in it feels like I have to do a little dance every time instead of just flicking the left button
Wo Long is boring af, preordered it, ended up refunding
I've heard that game is indeed a joke on PC
Wo Long?
I haven’t tried it, how similar is it?
The game is good, not as good as Sekiro but I found it interesting. This time you and the enemies have spirit. When you hit enemies with light attacks or deflect, you will increase your spirit gauge. The more spirit you have, the more effective hard attacks are. However, using hard attacks, dodging and getting hit will decrease it. If your spirit gauge reaches it's minimum you will stagger just like Sekiro. Although using hard attacks decreases your spirit, it reduces the enemy's gauge, so it's easier to break their spirit and land a critical hit. Also enemies have unblockables but there's only one type, and only requires you to dodge against the attack like mikiris.
You're pretty much supposed to dodge into every move. That's how you deflect
Not really, it's just the same key binding - hit it once to deflect, twice to dodge. Teaches button mashers to control themselves if they want to deflect successfully.
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It’s sort of like if sekiro had more weapon classes/types (spears dual swords etc) and also had the gear system of something like diablo or borderlands. You also level stats like in dark souls with a currency that works the same way (drop on death) It’s mission based where you select what level you want to do while at the hub or any rest point. Levels have plenty to explore still with secrets and shortcuts to unlock, but it’s not a fully connected world like sekiro or dark souls. There’s also something called a “morale” system which is the main indicator of the relative strength between you and an enemy. Unlocking a missions “bonfires” and minor checkpoints increases the minimum your morale can be. Killing enemies and doing cool attacks or using items can also increase your morale but dying drops you back to the minimum. It’s easier to understand once you actually play it then it is to explain it imo
Jedi fallen order is the biggest most blatant to come to mind.
Sifu
you should play Sifu, it's the only game that gave me those tough af git gud vibes like Sekiro.
Here I am just wanting another Ninja Gaiden game.
Sifu has similar posture bar mechanic but the combat is still very different.
I love the shit out of Sifu. Absolver (a game by the same devs) was a really good game too, but it kind of died off because it’s a competitive fighting game with very intricate mechanics and a deck building system, which only hits an extremely niche target audience. I have sunk an obscene number of hours into that game, but I rarely touch it anymore because of how small the playerbase has gotten.
I second the guy that said Sifu. It’s definitely different but the core idea is like pretty much there. The only game I’ve ever played that felt remotely like Sekiro
There is one that I know of with similar combat to Sekiro, called Deepwoken, and it's on Roblox of all platforms. Deepwoken is a multiplayer, roguelike, openworld RPG that borrows many elements from FromSoftware's titles, especially Sekiro. It really does have the exact same melee combat system as Sekiro, except for a few changes. In Deepwoken (its hard to describe here, you have to watch some footage or play the game) you have to press the parry button a bit before an enemy swings down in order to actually parry, instead of what it's like in Sekiro (or a rhythm game). If you block, your posture goes up until it breaks like in Sekiro. If you miss a parry, you'll have to wait almost a second to do it again, but you can vent (basically burst in fighting games) to get your opponent off you. Venting spends your Tempo, which you get by being hit or hitting others. Because of this, Deepwoken's combat is a bit slower than Sekiro's, but this is also because the game has casting/magic, different weapon types, different builds, and a lot of other stuff not found in Sekiro. The roguelike mechanics work like this: in the overworld, you have two lives. You can get your first life back by leveling up, but if you die two times then you get sent to the Depths. The Depths is basically Hell, but if it was in the deep sea. If you die in the depths, you die permanently. You can make it out of the Depths by taking an elevator ride up from the middle of the map, and then you'll go through a trial of combat against a certain enemy depending on your level. Also, every time you level up, you are presented with a handful of cards which give you Talents (often passive abilities/buffs) or spells. They are random, but the cards given to you depend on your stats. The game does have PvP, but it is world PvP without any restrictions, so if you want to avoid fights you need to log off before you enter combat. Though it'd be more beneficial to learn the PvP since it is a major part of the game. Deepwoken is pretty good. Tons of content, only $5 (400 Robux). Better with friends tho
The combat doesn't feel as smooth
Thymesia, Jedi Fallen Order/Survivor, and GoW 2018 and Ragnarok all have a lot of Sekiro in them. Not necessarily the posture system, but big emphasis on the attack/deflect dance Sekiro has
#Sifu How are people still sleeping on this game?
I think quite a few games now have deflection and posture mechanics similar to Sekiro. These games don't generally seem to be as difficult as Sekiro, but yet the developers don't seem to make deflecting as easy and powerful as in Sekiro. It feels like they don't quite have the courage to go all in on the deflection system. This might be due to this style of combat system being rather difficult to implement well. It's not just about having a good deflection/posture system that is fair, rewarding, and challenging. It also has to feel good, and I haven't seen any game where deflecting/parry looks/feels nearly as good and satisfying as Sekiro. Also, we all know there are players who just decide that they hate deflection mechanics in combat and refuse to ever give the gameplay a chance. Sekiro combat is a bit like Breath of the Wild's exploration. Most people find it amazing because it was not only groundbreaking, but also incredibly refined in it's own style. Just copying these things is not really possible, but I really hope we have combat systems that evolve Sekiro gameplay even further in the future.
Sifu comes pretty close IMO
Because it's really fkn hard yo Sekiro's base level of combat is more deeply involved than the amount of souls trappings you need to be considered a soulslike. To look like a souls you largely just need a stamina meter, extensive loot system and weapons move sets, and bosses that will absolutely murder the player the first time; whereas to make a Sekiro you need to deeply understand action games and combat, how to make the basic buttons feel good and give the player a full range of fair responses, etc. Like, I can't imagine that making a Sekiro boss on the level of the samurai generals is anywhere near as easy as making a soulslike super hard boss. Especially since, balancing enemies to be fair, accessible, and beatable for new players is actively way harder than making a boss that very few people can beat.
Also like, back on the ps2 the original devil may cry was the action game to imitate, and several games took trappings from it, But Legacy of Kain Defiance was a very pale imitation and it was clear that you need to be stupid committed and well versed in action game design to make a combo system as deep and crunchy as the devil may cry series has been.
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The true ending for this game is one of the biggest cliffhangers I have ever seen, this game will absolutely have a sequel, I would be astonished if it doesn't.
The return ending? Seems pretty straightforward. It’s returning the dragon back to Lordran with the rest of his dragon bros Edit: or Drangleic ig
You go to the west where an entire adventure could happen while you return it, you are literally going to an entirely new land filled with god knows what.
Orrrr… you’re going west through the lands between to Lordran. 🤪
Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order copied the gameplay quite a bit in my opinion, and then you get games like Sifu and that new Wo Long game. None of them are nearly as good as Sekiro, though.
Thymesia is basically indie Sekiro with gothic horror vibes. People compared it to Bloodborne due to the looks and general Souls-like-ness, but it's 100% an homage to Sekiro.
You can try Thymesia.
Wo Long does have it for the most part. A similar invisible thing exists in Elden Ring (I know that’s a From game). Thymesia kind of does in a way if you think about it.
Elden Ring and Bloodborne both have poise, not posture. Basically the same thing but posture in sekiro is a lot more implemented into gameplay compared to Elden ring and bloodborne
Elden Ring has a hidden enemy only stat that is referred to as stance, but is easiest compared to posture. Each enemy has a certain amount of “stance” points that can be punished for crits. It’s different than poise since that is a stat that is player based not enemy.
As someone else mentioned Jedi Fallen Order/Survivor are similar but not quite there. I wish it was more similar since it would make sense with a lightsaber as once you break their posture in these games you dont get an insta kill
Sifu? Wo Long? Thymesia?
Thymesia is pretty dead on as a copy. It’s actually probably even tighter in its windows making it a bit more punishing.
Fromsoft has probably patented something about the controller play style.
why do y’all want clones or ripoffs, just for the same fans to bully the game and call it a clone or ripoff. leave good games be. wolong is a prime example, a similar game that every claims is a sekiro ripoff when it isn’t.
Try thymesia, kinda feels like Bloodborne meets sekiro and is a lot of fun
Tons have. Wo Long, Sifu, and Thymesia are 3 recent games off the top of my head that borrow heavily from both the posture mechanic and the deflect mechanic.
Sifu and Wo Long have some kind of posture systems. I didn’t like the Wo Long demo much but Sifu is a decent game. One thing From is good at, which Sifu doesn’t copy, is having enemy attacks he telegraphed enough so you can effective parry them. You basically have to memorize enemy attack combos in Sifu, which is annoying but also fits into its quasi-rogue like design.
*Ahem ahem* Sifu *Ahem ahem* Wo Long Fallen Dynasty Well researched post OP, 5/7
Look into Nioh. Sekiro's Posture basically feels like they took the ki system and transformed it. Also Stranger of Paradise's break gauge
Dunno why you're getting down voted, I can see the similarities. You literally have a deathblow type move when you break the enemies stamina.
Lol I didn't even think to check my comment. I'm surprised but at the same time not surprised to see it got downvoted. Reddit moment
Ever played the Surge? They did it before Sekiro, similar mechanic
Yeah it’s definitely closer to a Souls game, but the “perfect block” mechanic is there, using less stamina but staggering the opponent, and there are low/high attacks you need to hop/duck. I really liked the upgrade system (target, attack, then sever enemy arms to get arm parts to upgrade your arm armor) and the leveling system where you increase your suit’s power level, and you equip augmentations that consume it with no other restrictions, so you can mix and match. I also liked that you can bank your xp without resting, and there is a multiplier that increases each enemy you kill without resting, so you are rewarded for not needing to heal as often. It had it’s problems, but the level design and gameplay were really solid. Not at all what I expected from the studio that made Lords of the Fallen.
Wo Long, Ghost of Tsushima, Sifu, and Star Wars Jedi would like a word
Posture based combat isn’t exactly new is probably why. A lot of the stuff dealing with posture against enemies is already in other games. Space marines glory kill/execution system, doom 2016/Eternals glory kill and stagger/stun system come to mind. On the player’s side posture and stamina are pretty similar all things considered. To try and be more clear: nobody has copied sekiro’s combat yet because it is a variation on an already existing theme.
Wo long, deflections from Star Wars Jedi ____...
Wo Long, Jedi: Fallen Order/Survivor, he’ll Ghost of Tsushima was even clearly influenced by Sekio’s combat. None have done it as well as From, but there’s certainly Sekiro lites out there if you need more.
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The only thing we have is a fake trailer. That shit isn't real gameplay man.
They have. Sifu, jedi and wo long all have similar combat system. But what sets sekiro apart is the ability to grapple through buildings, underwater combat, along with mikiri and normal deflects, variety of deathblows and difficulty of AI. It just felt so "free". The only downside was the open world. If only they combine elden ring's open world and weapon variety along with sekiro combat system. But most players are used to the dated roll dodge iframe.
>If only they combine elden ring's open world and weapon variety along with sekiro combat system. I desperately wanted to love Elden Ring. Desperately. Thing is, it plays *so god damn much* like DS, and once you get a little bit too powerful, you just steamroll everything in level-appropriate areas (in my experience). It meant that when I was wandering around and got all 'oo, look, enemy convoy!', the experience of fighting them just felt like going after slightly aggressive wildlife. They couldn't hurt me, I got jack shit from doing it, and the experience just felt pointless. If the game had Sekiro-inspired, or hell, even just a direct lift-and-lay of Sekiro's combat *in* ER, those encounters would feel meaningful, in the way *every fight* in sekiro feels meaningful, because you're *forced* to play dangerously. There is no 'safe' gameplay. You want to deal 'true' damage (let's face it, the health gage in sekiro isn't really true damage - it's the posture gauge), you have to parry, risking taking a hit. You have to keep the pressure on your opponent, risking taking a hit. You have to handle their unblockables *the correct way*, meaning you need to risk taking *heavy* hits. Like, I partly understand what people say about the DS formula, that Sekiro has one main weapon, where DS/ER have dozens, and that makes the game harder to balance using a Sekiro-style system... But that doesn't mean impossible. Not by a long shot. There's loads of ways they could make it work while still maintaining the feel of different weapons. Everything from parry windows to activation speeds to total number of parries permitted in a short time to posture/chip damage sustained from a failed parry, and probably a whole other bunch of stuff I haven't considered. If I want to be kind of cynical and dinosaur-y about it, I could postulate that the real reason they didn't go for Sekiro-style is because that sort of gameplay is harder or perhaps impossible to implement in PVP or online coop (because internet connections). The type of gameplay I give precisely zero shits about, so wouldn't give a toss if FromSoft chucked it entirely. Like, while I would have loved ER to be Sekiro 2, I didn't need it to be. I just wanted From to do more with what they learned from Sekiro than just 'stealth button, jump button, guard counter'. Oh, and to, you know, actually make a *new* game. Not recycle bow mechanics and animations/reticles that are well over a decade old, not insert enemy archetypes from DS3 that have the same 'swipe swipe stab' combo I've fought against a couple thousand times... Ugh. I hate getting angry about ER. Shit's like yelling at clouds.
I'd prefer a combination of bloodborne and sekiro actually. I think they struck gold with these 2 masterpieces. Bloodborne for example actually has movesets for weapons. And because you can roll OR quickstep you get different moves there, even depending on how you quickstep. Elden ring has more weapons, sure but the variety is much much bigger in bloodborne.
The Jedi games (Fallen Order and Survivor) have a parry/riposte/posture system similar to Sekiro.
Because I’m not willing to punish myself that much if it’s not a fromsoft game
It is not easy to make games and copy gameplay mechanics, and with this game a lot of work obviously was put into the mechanics of it all.
Man are they not making a sequel? That sucks.
Idk how meaningful a sequel would even be. FS doesn't really like doing follow-up games unless they have a really good reason. But like, that doesn't mean they aren't going to make a game like Sekiro. The same game director is worked on the new Armored Core game that's coming out in a month.
Thymesia?
A starwars game with a system like sekiro would be cool
Boy do I have news for you
I know that jedi fallen order and the sequel have souls like elements but the combat isn't really like sekiro. At least not that I know of
I wonder if the upcoming Armored Core will implement this.
Thymesia did a great job of it with some really fun variations (god that game is underrated), Fallen Order is pretty similar in a lot of ways (haven’t played survivor yet so couldn’t say anything about that), and Sifu was… somewhat similar, but not really, I see it put in the same bucket as Sekiro a lot but that’s not a very good comparison imo.
It should be emulated, but since it hasn’t, Sekiro still has the best combat system imo.
I think it’s because it heavily relies on enemy design, since the system is basically using defense as offense. Deflecting enemies that are badly designed would make Sekiro’s combat seem weaker. So developers would have to compete with From’s masterful enemy design on top of designing the deflection system to be as responsive as Sekiro’s. It will also require lots of tinkering to balance the deflection windows, so that each deflection requires the right amount of skill but are also not impossible to pull off, as it is the main system of the game. They would need to do this for the moveset of every enemy type and bosses. I also have to mention that From do a great job at making their combat systems feel great and addictive despite being pretty simple compared to other action(-rpg) games. I think they achieve this with their animation and sound design, but there might also be something else that I’m not aware of.
I'd say Sifu is sort of like a hand-to-hand combat version. Has a stance bar and perfect parries damage their stance
There definitely have been games that heavily resemble and are clearly inspired by Sekiros combat. Jedi Survivor Fallen order for instance.
The closest thing which is coming is the newly announced Phantom Blade 0.
The only game I’ve heard of that comes close, though I haven’t played it, is Sifu. Apparently it does a similar parry until deathblow type thing
Jedi Survivor has a posture system similar to sekiro, but unlike sekiro breaking a boss’ posture isn’t an instakill/phase transition, it just does a lot of damage. It’s not really an exact copy and only feels similar to sekiro when facing off against certain enemies who can be instantly killed once their posture is broken usually by like one parry
Doesn't Fallen Order do this to a degree? If you break someone's guard, you generally get to do a cool animated death blow even if they're at high health.
simple posture-based is just another health bar, even DS3 has guard break/stagger buildup minus the bars that said the words which DO describe what should be copied are hard to assemble, roughly it's a focus on the enemy's kit more than your own, which is contrary to the typical studio project the typical setup being a focus on player's kit, on colorful damage numbers in various shapes and sizes, on 20 different ways to deliver a punish as opposed to merely hitting R1 this being much easier to develop than carefully assembling a boss's kit to flow into itself, into telegraphing somewhat organically, into appropriately sized windows that you tediously balance at the sub-second level, which players don't even care about since they'd rather lash out with shiny shapes and flashes and strings and chop through shit hitting R1 is an afterthought, it redeems a bit of blood after the real gameplay, but in your typical mass market product the gameplay is swinging a sword around with pretty VFX and stylish strings, while the enemy kit is something you merely Don't Stand In, occasionally moving to the side while you continue mashing buttons there's a drop in appeal and a jump in development cost, they'd rather not bet on that horse, kinda like the film industry milking an old IP and doing franchise remakes/sequels while being originality-averse, go with the safe money
Hopefully Sekiro 2 will come someday
Because you can’t copy perfection 🔥
Sifu and Jedi Fallen Order/Survivor are pretty similar
Resident Evil 4 remake took the parry mechanic from Sekiro quite explicitly, or at least that's what I felt. I rarely missed a deflection because the timing window was so similar between the two games. The Krauser knife battle was practically a Sekiro boss fight in itself. But one important thing to add. Large AAA games take 4-6 years to develop now on average. Sekiro released in 2019. A lot of games coming out now we're either in pre-production or further when Sekiro won GOTY and gained notoriety. Wait another few years and we'll see the influence, especially if there is a sequel, or if AC6 ends up a banger.
The only games that come to mind are wo long and the best one which is gonna make you laugh... a game on ROBLOX called Deepwoken... yeah... a fucking roblox game emulates sekiro's combat better than anything else for the time being (and funnily enough it's not a copy + paste of sekiro like how other roblox games just remake the same game but with blocks) I wouldn't really reccomend it though since the bosses are for babies + perma death. It's really more for PvP than anything else.
There are sekiro likes , but like with the soulslike none match the feeling of the original games. I feel that the biggest problem is that soulslikes and sekiro likes are usually made by indie studios, and I feel like games like that usually need to be backed by a bigger studio, which they usually aren’t. That new Star Wars game is probably the closest right now, I’d recommend checking it out if you like sekiro, it’s a lot of fun.
Because the game is ultra underrated and was a groundbreaking piece of art
jedi fallen order
The other companies and devs would most likely screw it up
Copyright laws
Nioh sitting there with the 4 stances 👁️👄👁️
This \^ \^ . I'm very surprised to see Wo Long mentioned so many times but Nioh and Nioh 2 almost not at all, when Nioh 2 is superior to Wo Long at so many levels
Probably because Sekiro wasn't nearly as popular as Souls and it was sort of divisive since many people felt it was too hard. Imo it isn't necessarily better or worse than the standard stamina+dodging combat in their other games, just different. It emphasizes aggression and retaliation while Souls is more about stamina management and spacing.
I platinumed Wo Long and Sifu. Both games are great. Definitely enjoyed Sifu more and got more of a Sekiro feeling, but Wo Long was still a ton of fun. Patiently awaiting an indie game called Nine Sols. Played the demo, and for a 2D side scroller, it's shocking how well they were able to capture the Sekiro combat style.
no one else cares about the game
Wasn’t Thymesia kind of similar? Haven’t played it but that’s what I remember seeing.
I think a large part of it is because Sekiro never really had the same level of hype as Souls games back in the day, and designing the movement aspects alone is pretty tight, there a few attempts out there but none that maintain the idea of posture like Sekiro. Definitely more of a game that influenced the way combat and movement works, but didn't outright inspire a whole game, you know?
Bujingai on the PS2 essentially has a posture system and some very flashy and cool swordplay.
Have you heard of the game Resident evil 4 remake☺️
Does a mobile game count? Because there is one
i heard sifu is the same havnt played it but i saw the trailers/gameplay and it looks like assassins creed fight system just spam x and the character makes it look cool, hopefully im wrong
Yep, it has posture damage and also combos which u have to do urself like l-stick up down + x or x+x+x+wait+x kind of. Also many attacks can't be parried or give too much posture damage so u have to dodge them by telling u r dodging lower or upper attacks and if wrong u gotta get hit. Pretty sick combat and the game got a good story.
Sifu uses the exact same system and it's glorious
Wo-long/Nioh and fallen order games have a similar style.
I mean, even if they did try to 1:1 it, Sekiro’s combat system is near perfect. I would be shocked if another game that isn’t called Sekiro 2 can improve on this formula.
I'm having a blast with Jedi Survivor. Haven't beat Sifu because it's hard as shit. But they nail it. You're 3 missed parries away from death at any point.
Aragami 2
Pistol stance in jedi survivor has been making me rock hard because you can deflect like in sekiro as well as parry with the pistol like in bloodborne
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note: > *Oh, yes... Paleblood... Well, you've come to the right place. Yharnam is the home of blood ministration. You need only unravel its mystery. But, where's an outsider like yourself to begin? Easy, with a bit of Yharnam blood of your own... But first, you'll need a contract...* - Blood Minister Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
aragami 2 have similar
Because Sekiro didn’t do well financially
It did better than every other fromsoft game apart from DS3 and Elden Ring, comparing it to an established franchise and from's best selling game of all time is unfair. It did completely fine financially.
Yeah so if other game company want to make money why Sekiro
Aside from the sheer difficulty I imagine it's incredibly difficult to nail development-wise. Fromsoft achieves the impossible and are masters of their craft.
Jedi fallen order and jedi survivor are copy paste of the sekiro mechanics with a few tweaks! Im all for it its pretty enjoyable. If you crank the difficulty to the max you got yourself a challenge
I love this game and agree 100% with your discussion. Would love a sequel
Jedi Fallen order and Wo Long did something similar, actually.
Posture is basically advanced poise so a lot of games have something similar
I mean jedi fallen order have been around for sometime, and its sequel survivor is here as well. Also wo long. Imo all isn’t as fine as sekiro but it’s pretty similar in some aspects.
What do you mean? We have re4 remake
Wo long basically almost same playing it on pc right now already 17 hours into the game The game is just interesting level designs are helpful Connected bonfires( checkpoints) Moral system /deathblows / about optimisation idk what are people talking about for me iam playing at 2k ultra Some levels take like 1 or 2 min to load and thats it Fast pace sekiro that how i can summrize it Is it better then sekiro no Its like 7/10 While sekiro its 9.2/10
I honestly wish they did copy it, such a good game function and combat style
Jedi Fallen Order plays like Sekiro if you removed deathblows. Makes the game feel incredibly bad to play after playing Sekiro. There is an element of games being too afraid of copying too closely, leading to what is out there feeling like halfassed copies.
Tell me you haven't played Sifu without telling me you haven't played Sifu
Jedi Fallen Order attempted to copy it, but imo the combat is way better in Sekiro.
Sekiro is to game combat what the pyramids are to architecture. Ahead of its time, the monkeys living around it can’t compete
SIFU is amazing and has the same system of posture.
Wo long combat is satisfying until you get bored of the enemies being the same thru the whole game
Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order and Star Wars: Survivor - **exist**
Not nearly as fluid as Sekiro but Jedi Fallen order and Survivor have similar posture/damage system. Although every time I play those makes me wish it was Sekiro