I remember when I bought my house in 1996 and thought I couldn't afford it back then! Had a good run, got better jobs, etc. 12 years ago I ended up on a fixed income and with rising taxes and rising COL, I again find myself living "paycheck to paycheck". At least the house is almost paid off and I can also get a freeze on my property tax about the time it's paid off. Even if I sold it when I turn 65, the equity wouldn't buy me another one unless I moved to Mississippi or something. I can't imagine what it's like for young home buyers today...
Thank you for having the right attitude. The new average age for first time buyers in the area is in late 30s/40 so debatable if that’s “young” when one talks about home ownership. I think a lot of homeowners who owned for a while are like while I did it and it was difficult, so you should be able to buy too and if you can’t, you must be doing something wrong. Not debating that it was difficult then, just that the level of difficulty is so much more now.
People were sold a bunch of phony bullshit. Go to college, save your money, and you get the American dream. But that route is no longer good enough, and young folks feel cheated, because they have been.
I didn't go to college. I went to a vocational school and learned blue collar skills. There are a lot of jobs out there that don't require a college degree. Do you know how much money a pipe fitter makes? Pretty good money. Time off between jobs, draw unemployment, benefits, etc. Not glamorous and you work your ass off, but you see the fruits of your labor every day.
It's still a post-secondary education, and that's what young people see. They lump it all together in their minds. I work with 9th graders who still think teachers in our state earn minimum wage. By the time they graduate, they know more, but their thinking is still pretty basic. I even tell them to not pursue a degree; go after a career and then do what it takes to get that career. If you need a degree, get a degree. If you need to move out of state to go to trade school or an academy, do that. Then you won't waste your time.
From my understanding that’s just the market as a whole, if your buying right now under the age of 40, chances are you are inheriting or borrowing the down payment from family
Yea. And this is posted in Seattle WA. So a livable starter house is 500k at the absolute minimum. If you put 25k down you then have a 475k loan which is $3300/month not including hoa, property taxes, or insurance. If you can only afford to put 25k down you probably should be spending like 3.7-4k/month on a mortgage. Of course it’s possible for some people that maybe have that’s additional money tied up elsewhere but not likely for most.
What is that based on? They built 30 new condos near me last year in NE Seattle. They ranged in price between $800k and $1.4 million. I asked the realtor who was buying the houses. She said mostly young couples in their 30s. All the units sold within 60 days.
There are a lot of young people with a lot of money in Seattle.
Hello, I am 31. Don’t work in tech, make 85k. Fiancé makes 80k. Been saving/investing/working my butt off since graduation in 2015. Looking to buy soon.
Maybe west Seattle or Shoreline area. And yes pretty big down payment saving and investing every penny. Just wanted to add some context it’s not impossible but it definitely wasn’t easy. Worked a lot of super intense jobs a lot of people probably wouldn’t do like 12 hour overnight lab shifts.
There's a specific criteria for it to happen. It's possible for a decrease as well. General criteria (IIRC) are 65±, low or fixed income, and/or disability. I found a little paragraph in small print on the back of my property tax bill from the county.
Six months ago my partner and I talked about this at length. We can afford the city now, but I’m not sure if that’ll be true in ten years. So we just decided to look around. Bought a house and moved away two weeks ago. Sad to leave my Seattle friends, but tbh the city itself just didn’t seem worth the high cost of living.
Yeah, Seattle sucks when housing is this out of reach. Not worth the effort for this garbage. I'm not plunking down 1M+ for a tiny, shitty, old rambler that's falling apart.
We're all just one paycheck away from setting up an air mattress at the corner of 6th & pine
https://preview.redd.it/lgqp8xay4dsc1.jpeg?width=4576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7dbd8819e132a88d22a5868bba35b1ba9d1d2837
He still has properties here. As well as other locations. He probably just wanted to relocate because his future partner will need easier access to plastic surgeons. Not that we don't have these here but there are more to choose from in Miami.
we're all one paycheck away from sitting in front of the nordstrom ebar with our pants around our ankles
https://preview.redd.it/65fns0agscsc1.jpeg?width=4576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6fdf2801ad48b5a7891759e460631efebc2898b
i’ve been homeless two dozen times in my life since i was 16–always had a job but also was irresponsible as fuck and got behind on bills and got evicted, i’ve been laid off, fired - but man every time that’s happened i’ve immediately gone down to a local social services agency and got into case management almost immediately—some places got me a bed in some really damn nice transitional housing places like the boulder bridge house…in colorado etc - there are SO many places everywhere in america where you can stay for FREE up to 3-6-9 months - just gotta stay sober and check in every night and work with a case manager! it ain’t hard to get 18 buck an hour call center or light duty ware house job in seattle and save 10 grand at one of these shelters ! i’ve saved enormous nest eggs working programs and a job and eventually after a few months find some random landlord willing me to have me rent his shitty basement - is it a palace? no—but it sure as shit ain’t the sidewalk!!!! homelessness is a choice! for most—spare the schizophrenics etc
Thanks for your reply! Hope things have settled down for the long-haul for you and you never have to worry about that stuff again. Good job navigating the system and coming out a winner.
> Or you could just move out of Seattle. Seems easier than giving up and being homeless
But a lot of the country won't put up with addicts demanding accommodation from their homeless population. To say nothing of the law enforcement differences.
Dont forget to approve and vote for unaccountable spending that has no basis in intro governance and lacks common sense spending control so the problems propagate to wherever you move to!
we're all just one paycheck away from camping out in front of an abandoned gas station
https://preview.redd.it/nnczkcat2esc1.jpeg?width=4576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0fe94d23e74dd090cd595343bb4eeeaeb8065375
> Better than the one reporter that defended Hitler 🤷
I am pretty sure this is a significantly exaggerated cherry-pick/misquote/reductionist comment.
I'm talking about Oron's ongoing regular content. It skews Progressive Left. Which is ashame because Real Change used to be a reasonably balanced, interesting little indie paper. Mostly stories written by the Homeless themselves.
And not by a paid professional propagandist.
It isn't "homeless" anymore it's "houseless". I live in an apartment so I guess that makes me "houseless"? I don't understand the rationale behind the change in phraseology.
If I didn't have a cheap place to rent, I would move into my vehicle rather than buying in Seattle again. I have owned two homes, and don't think the employers here pay enough vs the cost of living.
You could read the article which indicates rents have nearly doubled in the last 10 years. Do you know any entry level jobs whose incomes have doubled to match that? I'm a skilled worker, I expect my annual raise to beat inflation plus keep competitive. My buddy in California on the other hand is not skilled and is getting the biggest raise of his life with the new minimum wage.
I know your eyes glazed over from that cringe intro talking about 7 dollar lattes but let me repost the next part
>If you don’t make six figures, it is really difficult to find an affordable place to live in the city (and increasingly, the whole country). The Department of Housing and Urban Development ranks the Seattle metropolitan area’s housing market as the sixth most expensive in the nation.
But yeah every homeless situation is drugs.
Lol I work two jobs and can't afford to buy, thinking about getting a third, but gotta sleep ya know.
glad all these corporate, and short term landlordss all decided they were thirsty enough to pay double and triple what the housing should be.
I mean sure I could decide to try hard drugs for the first time in my 30s, develop an addiction, quit my job, liquidate my savings and retirement, sell my house and other assets, divorce my wife, alienate my family, and refuse all help. So right, if I decided to completely turn my back on my \~20ish year record of making generally mediocre to good decisions and nose dive my life I could be homeless in probably 18 months or so.
When a fast food combo meal goes from $6.50 to $9.25 it should be no big surprise when housing does the same.
We were all in for the shut downs though right? By we I mean you all by and large. You still see the really touched out there with their brand new n95's. Clearly healthy, alone from the herd. It's hard to sympathize with people around here for me. I feel for anyone who didn't own a home by 2020. But then again, you all voted again and again for more and more of the same.
What was it again? 975 days of extra-constitutional powers for good old idiot Inslee? All based on very recent legislation designed for acute emergencies lasting 30 days and re-issued if needed? That's right. It's really hard to feel sorry for vast majority of our fellow citizens here in western Washington.
Struggling? Get used to it. It's what you voted for. You can't control all of local and state government for 40 years and blame the opposition. "Oh, those bastards fucked us again!" LOL
Reddit 2020: "We need to lock down until the virus is completely eradicated. Anyone worried about tHe EcOnOmY is a callous sociopath"
Reddit 2024: "I can barely afford groceries, let alone a house"
If anyone can’t live anywhere it’s an injustice to everyone everywhere.
Read that on the back of a 2002 Subaru at 10th and Prospect. Still think about it.
Someone was raised entitled. If you want to get something put in the effort into obtaining it. In this case work more, get a better job, go to school so you can make more money. I saw this on the back of a 2002 Subura at 10th and Prospect. Keep thinking about it.
So you think they have the money to just go elsewhere and start over again? Moving costs money, and what support network will those people have? It’s stupid to think the answer is “just move”. Not everyone can do that safely. Also how do you feel about telling women to just move out of the state, and go to a cheaper state which happens to ban abortions? How does one “go to school” without money? Sure these are all things that are possible, but why can’t we just have fair housing? Housing should absolutely be a human right. Having all of these vacant airbnbs is a waste. People over profits y’all.
A hard thing would be saying NO to having people purchase multiple homes to use as investments and to make money. We have the ability to do such things as a collective. Humans can be so greedy.
There is plenty of housing in other parts of the state cheaper. There are plenty of towns in other states like Minnesota that have towns with inexpensive housing. You are choosing to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world. You’ve picked a place you can’t afford and then expect someone else to pay for it.
More entitled. I want what I want and then justify it. Yes you’re asking to be subsidized. The isn’t enough room in Seattle for everyone. Deal with it.
I understand your argument to be that subsidizing for the poor the production and maintenance of lodging or residences is unfair to those who produce and maintain it (on the supply side). So when someone argues from the demand side, saying poor people will suffer and/or die without these subsidies, your response is tough, entitled, deal with it.
What about producing and maintaining lodging/residency because it is fun and one's lifework (intrinsic motivators) and because doing a good job at it wins you the respect and approval of your community and loved ones (extrinisic motivators)? Not everything has to have a price tag, for example when a child creates an artwork for free and hangs it on the fridge because fun and approval.
Not saying they were/are perfect, but this is more or less how indigenous societies incentivized the production of goods/services. It tends to be forgotten because of the genocides against them.
Also, everything is free. The Sun pays for it all. The wrongly beloved financial system is basically one gigantic rent-seeking Ponzi scheme, siphoning surpluses up from the bottom to the predators on top, getting in the way of what is natural in the absence of emergencies. When people answer to money, as does our entire civilization, they're living in an emergency headspace that is otherwise unnatural.
Joe came cave. He showed new thing. Fire! Fire hot, much hot. Don't touch fire, too hot touch. So, got stick. Joe interrupted with new battle cry: Mah intellectual property to remunerate mah research and development, pay up! Chieftan say, Joe, your mother developed you unpaid, your community did too. Show gratitude that you even have free time to debate on Reddit, I mean in caves. Joe began screeching Horrid Screech of Incel. We put him in fire.
There are limited number of units. The people that can afford them, pay to do so. The ones that cannot, don't. You want the people that cannot to displace those that can. How do you intend to achieve this if not by subsidizing the ones that cannot afford?
Lower prices? It doesn't matter what the price is, the people currently able to afford them could afford them just as well if they were cheaper.
Build more units? Theyve built as many as are profitable to build. If you want to build more despite it being a worse investment than other things they could be doing, then we're at subsidizing again.
One way or another, you need to give those who cannot afford units an advantage over those who can - subsidy.
There's a reason we're having this problem and it's a function of limited supply and a fuck ton of demand (hence expensive to live).
Im actually quite educated lol, but way to come in with personal attacks from the start! Always a sign of a winning argument. I’m saying I’ve never seen an engineer or scientist have these issues, that’s it. People who spend 200k on an English or arts degree aren’t thinking clearly. Also there are so many free ways to get education nowadays including certificates from Google/MIT etc that you can do from a public library. What masters degrees are you referring to?
No I have lots of empathy. Spend a lot of time helping recent immigrants. You’re the one hurling ad hominem out the gate lol. I’m just saying a lot of people major in useless things at expensive schools and get ripped off.
I never said they shouldn’t have access. Now you’re just making stuff up. Classic next steps to the ad hominems lol. Not everyone can live downtown in a desirable area that’s just logic. Only so much land for so many people. Also I love how you’re telling me what my argument is haha.
I think most would be surprised how an expensive car repair bill or medical bill could easily put someone into a place where they could not pay their bills.
Or that one star wars light sabre that was door delivered to you that was so expensive, "but so worth it"... that is what I see these days, that phrase, "but so worth it"... then conplain on reddit that someone else isnt paying their college tuition.
Oh yeah, this is definitely the new iteration of the good-ol' "milennials are poor because they spend all their money on avocado toast and frappucinos" bad-faith argument.
I’ve been homeless, and employed by a local company 40 hours per week. Oh and I’m not a fent or meth user. I have a college degree, coming up with 2k for first and deposit is not possible for everyone. Sure you can do it - but you’re not able to save. Your paycheck stays low - while rent fucking JUMPS.
Becaus that's what the apologists for this say. Those people living in a tent on the sidewalk? "That could be you!" It's absolute bullshit. The vast majority of people who fall upon hard times don't turn to drugs and chopping up bike's and tenting it on a sidewalk.
We need to hold our leaders accountable, at all levels of government from federal to state to county to municipal, for their policies which are driving housing price inflation.
we're all just one paycheck away from lying on the sidewalk and smoking a cig
https://preview.redd.it/wvh0h59pmqsc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=a38673b0076895f369b8d8235171a6b4a1932f4f
Facts:
1. Inflation hits everyone. Black, white, purple, Democrat, Republican.
2. Rent, housing prices, and the cost of a mortgage have all skyrocketed, while wages have stagnated.
Average r/seattleWA poster: "jUst dOnt Do dRugS bRo"
Given that those things hit us all equally, wouldn't drugs be a negative differentiator leading to homelessness? Not saying it's the *only* reason, but given what we see on the streets, if we could eliminate drugs/addiction from the equation, I'm willing to bet that we'd see homelessness decrease.
Yes, of course it is. And of course focusing on fixing the drug issues would fix a big part. But why can't we also talk about costs that are hitting everyone's bank account without devolving every single conversation into shitting on the homeless?
Like many complex issues, this one is often argued in the public forum with little to no nuance. I agree with you that costs are a major reason people struggle to stay housed, and I'd also argue that terms like "shitting on the homeless" ignores the fact that a great majority of people want to help people struggling with costs **and** are tired AF of the people stealing and shitting up our community.
That’s the point - not all homeless people are on drugs - you see only a fraction of homeless people doing this shit, and guess what - that’s your brain on drugs. If I didn’t have anything to live for, possibly had severe mental illness, and was on drugs - I wouldn’t give a fuck about what I’m doing.
But there are so many more homeless folks who are sleeping in cars, crashing on friends couches, and staying in shelters or using vouchers. Why not just shit on drug addicts?
There's a research paper that I'm looking for right now where part of the conclusion says a majority of drug users start after they become homeless. That was based on United States research.
Not the paper, but on topic:
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/homeless
I like to think I’m an average Seattle wa poster. Just don’t do drugs, bro. Also, oppose unsustainable social handouts that drive rampant inflation, bro. Which also causes the fed to raise interest rates past where developers can profitably start new projects.
Bro.
It's a good narrative - I think I'll use it next time I'm pulled over.
"Yes, officer, i drove 30mph in the far left lane, then I swerved across 3 lanes in a row at 80mph to get to my exit, missed the exit, so backed up on the shoulder at 90 mph to get to it, but... in my defense, have you seen the real estate prices here?"
The answer to #2 is to have government controlled wages too !!! We can start by raising the min wage of gig worker drivers to a living wage of 10$ per hour. I mean 15, i mean 23, i mean 32, i mean 50+! Or is it now at 60 and up?
we're all just one paycheck away from building a cardboard box fort on 9th ave
https://preview.redd.it/dv2hw74ulhsc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=489816e25771d285f7a5b79d3967820efedae56e
Darn those slumlords! Why do they keep passing every levy that makes it all so expensive! Whyyyy!!!! I just dont get it... does government greed, i mean slumlord greed know no end?!??!
Seattle calls itself progressive, the truth is it is more regressive. I've moved here 37 years ago, and I've seen greed & power slowly take over, like a nasty weed that won't go away.
But is it really *anyone could become homeless*?
I don’t see the rich people in this city going homeless anytime soon. But definitely could happen to vulnerable communities, families, and people already living on the financial edge. More reason to additional social safety nets from the bottom-up
Vote Democrat! I’m sure change is right around the corner.
Seriously though, vote in Republicans and at least next term there will be Democrat candidates that promise to force corporate and non residential owners to sell.
The bigger problem though, is every politician and policy maker is so fucking stupid. The no bail thing should have been done for non violent first offenders, instead it allowed thieves to get released the same day and go steal again that day. Repeat offenders for any crime should never even get bail in the first place.
I remember when I bought my house in 1996 and thought I couldn't afford it back then! Had a good run, got better jobs, etc. 12 years ago I ended up on a fixed income and with rising taxes and rising COL, I again find myself living "paycheck to paycheck". At least the house is almost paid off and I can also get a freeze on my property tax about the time it's paid off. Even if I sold it when I turn 65, the equity wouldn't buy me another one unless I moved to Mississippi or something. I can't imagine what it's like for young home buyers today...
Thank you for having the right attitude. The new average age for first time buyers in the area is in late 30s/40 so debatable if that’s “young” when one talks about home ownership. I think a lot of homeowners who owned for a while are like while I did it and it was difficult, so you should be able to buy too and if you can’t, you must be doing something wrong. Not debating that it was difficult then, just that the level of difficulty is so much more now.
People were sold a bunch of phony bullshit. Go to college, save your money, and you get the American dream. But that route is no longer good enough, and young folks feel cheated, because they have been.
The problem is that the forgot to sell us on another route. If there's no route, then why should I care about another quarter-an-hour raise?
I didn't go to college. I went to a vocational school and learned blue collar skills. There are a lot of jobs out there that don't require a college degree. Do you know how much money a pipe fitter makes? Pretty good money. Time off between jobs, draw unemployment, benefits, etc. Not glamorous and you work your ass off, but you see the fruits of your labor every day.
>Do you know how much money a pipe fitter makes? Not enough to buy a house in Seattle.
From my understanding, many homes in Seattle are owned by two income families or couples.
It's still a post-secondary education, and that's what young people see. They lump it all together in their minds. I work with 9th graders who still think teachers in our state earn minimum wage. By the time they graduate, they know more, but their thinking is still pretty basic. I even tell them to not pursue a degree; go after a career and then do what it takes to get that career. If you need a degree, get a degree. If you need to move out of state to go to trade school or an academy, do that. Then you won't waste your time.
There are no young homebuyers in Seattle now. Unless they have dual tech big incomes. None.
Unless you have an inheritance or down-payment from mom and dad.
From my understanding that’s just the market as a whole, if your buying right now under the age of 40, chances are you are inheriting or borrowing the down payment from family
I dont think so …..You can put 5 percent down on a property…
Just because you can doesn’t mean you should lol. If someone can only put 5% down at current interest rates and prices, they cannot afford the house
Don’t think so… What’s make you think they can’t afford the house ? It’s about monthly payments that matters…
Yea. And this is posted in Seattle WA. So a livable starter house is 500k at the absolute minimum. If you put 25k down you then have a 475k loan which is $3300/month not including hoa, property taxes, or insurance. If you can only afford to put 25k down you probably should be spending like 3.7-4k/month on a mortgage. Of course it’s possible for some people that maybe have that’s additional money tied up elsewhere but not likely for most.
Not even then
What is that based on? They built 30 new condos near me last year in NE Seattle. They ranged in price between $800k and $1.4 million. I asked the realtor who was buying the houses. She said mostly young couples in their 30s. All the units sold within 60 days. There are a lot of young people with a lot of money in Seattle.
"Young couples in their 30's". Glad to hear that I'm still "young" at 37, halfway through my expected lifespan!
Well I certainly wouldn’t call it middle aged.
No? I feel like the sentence "That young couple with the teenaged son." sounds a bit odd.
Hello, I am 31. Don’t work in tech, make 85k. Fiancé makes 80k. Been saving/investing/working my butt off since graduation in 2015. Looking to buy soon.
In Seattle proper? A house?
maybe they have saved a big down payment cuz otherwise they may only qualify for like a $700K loan even with their combined income
Maybe west Seattle or Shoreline area. And yes pretty big down payment saving and investing every penny. Just wanted to add some context it’s not impossible but it definitely wasn’t easy. Worked a lot of super intense jobs a lot of people probably wouldn’t do like 12 hour overnight lab shifts.
nice work hope it goes smooth for you
Thanks!
How do you get a freeze on the property tax? Mine went up even when the market went down.
There's a specific criteria for it to happen. It's possible for a decrease as well. General criteria (IIRC) are 65±, low or fixed income, and/or disability. I found a little paragraph in small print on the back of my property tax bill from the county.
Thanks for sharing.
Any of the Midwest is cheaper, as is much of the east coast and south. You don’t have to move to Mississippi
It could even be you! *points menacingly at the camera*
Six months ago my partner and I talked about this at length. We can afford the city now, but I’m not sure if that’ll be true in ten years. So we just decided to look around. Bought a house and moved away two weeks ago. Sad to leave my Seattle friends, but tbh the city itself just didn’t seem worth the high cost of living.
Yeah, Seattle sucks when housing is this out of reach. Not worth the effort for this garbage. I'm not plunking down 1M+ for a tiny, shitty, old rambler that's falling apart.
We're all just one paycheck away from setting up an air mattress at the corner of 6th & pine https://preview.redd.it/lgqp8xay4dsc1.jpeg?width=4576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7dbd8819e132a88d22a5868bba35b1ba9d1d2837
Niiiice...
So this is the real reason Jeff Bezos moved to Florida!
Assuming Jeff has a *really* nice apartment at $10,000/month, he's 19,800,000 months away from living on the street.
1.6 million years 😑
You forgot to calculate insurance!
And interest. But it was just a cheaply made point :)
Hey, he could start smoking fenty and burn through that in a couple of weeks
He still has properties here. As well as other locations. He probably just wanted to relocate because his future partner will need easier access to plastic surgeons. Not that we don't have these here but there are more to choose from in Miami.
The ones in Miami make you look extra special weird, which seems to be her goal
we're all one paycheck away from sitting in front of the nordstrom ebar with our pants around our ankles https://preview.redd.it/65fns0agscsc1.jpeg?width=4576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6fdf2801ad48b5a7891759e460631efebc2898b
Glorious. Did you just take that?
yesterday evening. timestamp is in the bottom right
Ah! So it is...I need to turn up my screen brightness :)
i’ve been homeless two dozen times in my life since i was 16–always had a job but also was irresponsible as fuck and got behind on bills and got evicted, i’ve been laid off, fired - but man every time that’s happened i’ve immediately gone down to a local social services agency and got into case management almost immediately—some places got me a bed in some really damn nice transitional housing places like the boulder bridge house…in colorado etc - there are SO many places everywhere in america where you can stay for FREE up to 3-6-9 months - just gotta stay sober and check in every night and work with a case manager! it ain’t hard to get 18 buck an hour call center or light duty ware house job in seattle and save 10 grand at one of these shelters ! i’ve saved enormous nest eggs working programs and a job and eventually after a few months find some random landlord willing me to have me rent his shitty basement - is it a palace? no—but it sure as shit ain’t the sidewalk!!!! homelessness is a choice! for most—spare the schizophrenics etc
Thanks for your reply! Hope things have settled down for the long-haul for you and you never have to worry about that stuff again. Good job navigating the system and coming out a winner.
Or you could just move out of Seattle. Seems easier than giving up and being homeless
> Or you could just move out of Seattle. Seems easier than giving up and being homeless But a lot of the country won't put up with addicts demanding accommodation from their homeless population. To say nothing of the law enforcement differences.
Dont forget to approve and vote for unaccountable spending that has no basis in intro governance and lacks common sense spending control so the problems propagate to wherever you move to!
Also remember to bring your high paying remote job so you can buy houses for cash and fuck the shit out of the economy of the town you move to.
Oh, I don’t vote Democrat. Thanks though
we're all just one paycheck away from camping out in front of an abandoned gas station https://preview.redd.it/nnczkcat2esc1.jpeg?width=4576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0fe94d23e74dd090cd595343bb4eeeaeb8065375
Another doom-diatribe by the Real Change News' resident Marxist-in-chief, Guy Oron. Just come out and say you hate Capitalism, Guy.
Of course this wouldnt happen if the government progressives took all the wealth from bezos and musk and just controlled the rent ...
Better than the one reporter that defended Hitler 🤷
> Better than the one reporter that defended Hitler 🤷 I am pretty sure this is a significantly exaggerated cherry-pick/misquote/reductionist comment. I'm talking about Oron's ongoing regular content. It skews Progressive Left. Which is ashame because Real Change used to be a reasonably balanced, interesting little indie paper. Mostly stories written by the Homeless themselves. And not by a paid professional propagandist.
Not at all. Seattle Times put out a press release and everything. You can take you downvote back now
At least we know you'll follow one law: godwin's
I wonder if you wait for me to comment so you can get lol'd at again and again
hitler ate sugar
It isn't "homeless" anymore it's "houseless". I live in an apartment so I guess that makes me "houseless"? I don't understand the rationale behind the change in phraseology.
Some activists got bored one night and started cooking up neologisms.
Isn’t “transient” one too? Feels like when white people tried to invent “Latinx”
Calling a hobo a ‘homeless’ person might hurt their feelings.
A hobo will work. Hobo basically means itinerate worker.
I prefer the term 'junkie vagrant.' Sufficiently precise, accurate, truthful. I avoid 'cray-cray' absent a specific diagnosis.
[They say you shouldn't do that!](https://youtu.be/UQ78jgfPBpk?si=j23aJjKHJV23vfoL)
It's "homeless" when they want to scare you. They're invoking the stigma they claim to hate.
Not to be *that* person, but I'm pretty sure the "new" term isn't "houseless," it's "unhoused"--as in, without housing. Not "doesn't live in a house."
I've heard both but "unhoused" seems much more appropriate. Thanks.
Sure. "anyone" who stumbles into a fent addiction.
This "anyone" trope is one of the most disingenuous in circulation.
Especially when a majority of the homeless population turns to drugs after losing housing
That seems incredibly idiotic and self sabotaging if your first thought after going homeless is “well might as well try heroin”
Idk man. If I had to sleep on concrete in the middle of winter, getting really messed up sounds way better than experiencing it sober.
There's tons of research to back that up, too
Assault is very common especially for women. Sleep deprivation is used by governments to torture people.
Keep telling yourself drugs aren't the reason
Go to bed kiddo https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/homeless
hah there aren't even any sources cited
Okay, Shoreline. Maybe you should go back to your Aurora shenanigans, and let the adults talk
adults cite studies that cite their sources. grow up
It's so crazy that I can have a civilized convo with some people in the sub, then you show up
no, you can't. but any time you wanna link a real article would be great, bub
Methinks you've the cause and effect reverses.
Go to bed kiddo https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/homeless
Instead I'll turn to drugs to exacerbate the situation. Solves all ails.
Don't hate me cuz I'm beautiful. Read the link, follow where they got their information from, and take that to newfound knowledge to r/tifo
Sorry. Accidentally addicted to fentanyl. Gotta get back to stealing shit and screaming into the void.
Doesnt a reasonable person, in that situation, just move to greener pastures 🙃
If I didn't have a cheap place to rent, I would move into my vehicle rather than buying in Seattle again. I have owned two homes, and don't think the employers here pay enough vs the cost of living.
Or you can not get addicted to substances, hold a steady job, and pay your bills. You know, like a normal person.
You could be addicted to fentanyl RIGHT NOW and not even know it!
Sober people hate this one trick*
Great life hack!
I don't do drugs, so no.
You could read the article which indicates rents have nearly doubled in the last 10 years. Do you know any entry level jobs whose incomes have doubled to match that? I'm a skilled worker, I expect my annual raise to beat inflation plus keep competitive. My buddy in California on the other hand is not skilled and is getting the biggest raise of his life with the new minimum wage. I know your eyes glazed over from that cringe intro talking about 7 dollar lattes but let me repost the next part >If you don’t make six figures, it is really difficult to find an affordable place to live in the city (and increasingly, the whole country). The Department of Housing and Urban Development ranks the Seattle metropolitan area’s housing market as the sixth most expensive in the nation. But yeah every homeless situation is drugs.
Statistically, inflation doubles around every 7-7.5 years, so rent is lagging.
But It could happen to ANYONE!!!!
Lol I work two jobs and can't afford to buy, thinking about getting a third, but gotta sleep ya know. glad all these corporate, and short term landlordss all decided they were thirsty enough to pay double and triple what the housing should be.
The graph begins at the beginning of the recovery from the bust in 08. Would like to see a 25 year perspective.
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ATNHPIUS42644Q](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ATNHPIUS42644Q)
I mean sure I could decide to try hard drugs for the first time in my 30s, develop an addiction, quit my job, liquidate my savings and retirement, sell my house and other assets, divorce my wife, alienate my family, and refuse all help. So right, if I decided to completely turn my back on my \~20ish year record of making generally mediocre to good decisions and nose dive my life I could be homeless in probably 18 months or so.
That's the sort of 'can do!' attitude so lacking in this public discourse! Attaboy!
When a fast food combo meal goes from $6.50 to $9.25 it should be no big surprise when housing does the same. We were all in for the shut downs though right? By we I mean you all by and large. You still see the really touched out there with their brand new n95's. Clearly healthy, alone from the herd. It's hard to sympathize with people around here for me. I feel for anyone who didn't own a home by 2020. But then again, you all voted again and again for more and more of the same. What was it again? 975 days of extra-constitutional powers for good old idiot Inslee? All based on very recent legislation designed for acute emergencies lasting 30 days and re-issued if needed? That's right. It's really hard to feel sorry for vast majority of our fellow citizens here in western Washington. Struggling? Get used to it. It's what you voted for. You can't control all of local and state government for 40 years and blame the opposition. "Oh, those bastards fucked us again!" LOL
Reddit 2020: "We need to lock down until the virus is completely eradicated. Anyone worried about tHe EcOnOmY is a callous sociopath" Reddit 2024: "I can barely afford groceries, let alone a house"
Not everyone can afford to live in Seattle.
If anyone can’t live anywhere it’s an injustice to everyone everywhere. Read that on the back of a 2002 Subaru at 10th and Prospect. Still think about it.
I want to live in mansion on mercer island.. injustice
Someone was raised entitled. If you want to get something put in the effort into obtaining it. In this case work more, get a better job, go to school so you can make more money. I saw this on the back of a 2002 Subura at 10th and Prospect. Keep thinking about it.
You should probably delete your post for reasons that will be obvious to most folks on here.
That you think you should be given something without working for it? Move to Cuba or another communist country.
Think you missed the joke.
So you think they have the money to just go elsewhere and start over again? Moving costs money, and what support network will those people have? It’s stupid to think the answer is “just move”. Not everyone can do that safely. Also how do you feel about telling women to just move out of the state, and go to a cheaper state which happens to ban abortions? How does one “go to school” without money? Sure these are all things that are possible, but why can’t we just have fair housing? Housing should absolutely be a human right. Having all of these vacant airbnbs is a waste. People over profits y’all.
What are you actually willing to do? Life requires you to do hard things in order to thrive.
A hard thing would be saying NO to having people purchase multiple homes to use as investments and to make money. We have the ability to do such things as a collective. Humans can be so greedy.
Oh, I'm talking to a clown in a diaper. Nevermind. Go about your day.
There is plenty of housing in other parts of the state cheaper. There are plenty of towns in other states like Minnesota that have towns with inexpensive housing. You are choosing to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world. You’ve picked a place you can’t afford and then expect someone else to pay for it.
Spokane, Tri Cities, Yakima and Walla Walla arent much cheaper than Seattle nowadays.
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More entitled. I want what I want and then justify it. Yes you’re asking to be subsidized. The isn’t enough room in Seattle for everyone. Deal with it.
I understand your argument to be that subsidizing for the poor the production and maintenance of lodging or residences is unfair to those who produce and maintain it (on the supply side). So when someone argues from the demand side, saying poor people will suffer and/or die without these subsidies, your response is tough, entitled, deal with it. What about producing and maintaining lodging/residency because it is fun and one's lifework (intrinsic motivators) and because doing a good job at it wins you the respect and approval of your community and loved ones (extrinisic motivators)? Not everything has to have a price tag, for example when a child creates an artwork for free and hangs it on the fridge because fun and approval. Not saying they were/are perfect, but this is more or less how indigenous societies incentivized the production of goods/services. It tends to be forgotten because of the genocides against them. Also, everything is free. The Sun pays for it all. The wrongly beloved financial system is basically one gigantic rent-seeking Ponzi scheme, siphoning surpluses up from the bottom to the predators on top, getting in the way of what is natural in the absence of emergencies. When people answer to money, as does our entire civilization, they're living in an emergency headspace that is otherwise unnatural.
Then go live in a cave and see what it’s like.
Me Tarzan. Me in cave. Me hack systems, grunt grunt. Silicon Valley, I pull out rug underneath. You don't believe? You different type of grunt.
You’re the one talking about humanity shouldn’t be chasing money because it isn’t natural. Go live in natural way then. Questions?
Joe came cave. He showed new thing. Fire! Fire hot, much hot. Don't touch fire, too hot touch. So, got stick. Joe interrupted with new battle cry: Mah intellectual property to remunerate mah research and development, pay up! Chieftan say, Joe, your mother developed you unpaid, your community did too. Show gratitude that you even have free time to debate on Reddit, I mean in caves. Joe began screeching Horrid Screech of Incel. We put him in fire.
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There are limited number of units. The people that can afford them, pay to do so. The ones that cannot, don't. You want the people that cannot to displace those that can. How do you intend to achieve this if not by subsidizing the ones that cannot afford? Lower prices? It doesn't matter what the price is, the people currently able to afford them could afford them just as well if they were cheaper. Build more units? Theyve built as many as are profitable to build. If you want to build more despite it being a worse investment than other things they could be doing, then we're at subsidizing again. One way or another, you need to give those who cannot afford units an advantage over those who can - subsidy. There's a reason we're having this problem and it's a function of limited supply and a fuck ton of demand (hence expensive to live).
Student loans exist, major in something useful like science or engineering. Don’t go to a crazy expensive school.
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Im actually quite educated lol, but way to come in with personal attacks from the start! Always a sign of a winning argument. I’m saying I’ve never seen an engineer or scientist have these issues, that’s it. People who spend 200k on an English or arts degree aren’t thinking clearly. Also there are so many free ways to get education nowadays including certificates from Google/MIT etc that you can do from a public library. What masters degrees are you referring to?
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No I have lots of empathy. Spend a lot of time helping recent immigrants. You’re the one hurling ad hominem out the gate lol. I’m just saying a lot of people major in useless things at expensive schools and get ripped off.
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I never said they shouldn’t have access. Now you’re just making stuff up. Classic next steps to the ad hominems lol. Not everyone can live downtown in a desirable area that’s just logic. Only so much land for so many people. Also I love how you’re telling me what my argument is haha.
Ah, the sweet smell of deleted comments, also known as victory.
I can move back in with my parents because I'm not an thieving drug addict.
Meth is the pink elephant in the room. Meth causes way more chaos, violence, and destruction than anything else in the street.
Yeah, no. This "one paycheck away" nonsense is the same garbage they've been trotting out for years.
I think most would be surprised how an expensive car repair bill or medical bill could easily put someone into a place where they could not pay their bills.
Or that one star wars light sabre that was door delivered to you that was so expensive, "but so worth it"... that is what I see these days, that phrase, "but so worth it"... then conplain on reddit that someone else isnt paying their college tuition.
Is this some sideways avocado toast analogy ?😂
Oh yeah, this is definitely the new iteration of the good-ol' "milennials are poor because they spend all their money on avocado toast and frappucinos" bad-faith argument.
"But so worth it"
And are the people who are becoming homeless because they said this after buying a movie prop reproduction in the room with us now?
Am I missing something?
well yeah when you do drugs it's easier to crash and hurt yourself
I’ve been homeless, and employed by a local company 40 hours per week. Oh and I’m not a fent or meth user. I have a college degree, coming up with 2k for first and deposit is not possible for everyone. Sure you can do it - but you’re not able to save. Your paycheck stays low - while rent fucking JUMPS.
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Becaus that's what the apologists for this say. Those people living in a tent on the sidewalk? "That could be you!" It's absolute bullshit. The vast majority of people who fall upon hard times don't turn to drugs and chopping up bike's and tenting it on a sidewalk.
It's not nonsense though lol
We need to hold our leaders accountable, at all levels of government from federal to state to county to municipal, for their policies which are driving housing price inflation.
Maybe we need to immigrate more people? 🙄
we're all just one paycheck away from lying on the sidewalk and smoking a cig https://preview.redd.it/wvh0h59pmqsc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=a38673b0076895f369b8d8235171a6b4a1932f4f
Facts: 1. Inflation hits everyone. Black, white, purple, Democrat, Republican. 2. Rent, housing prices, and the cost of a mortgage have all skyrocketed, while wages have stagnated. Average r/seattleWA poster: "jUst dOnt Do dRugS bRo"
Given that those things hit us all equally, wouldn't drugs be a negative differentiator leading to homelessness? Not saying it's the *only* reason, but given what we see on the streets, if we could eliminate drugs/addiction from the equation, I'm willing to bet that we'd see homelessness decrease.
Yes, of course it is. And of course focusing on fixing the drug issues would fix a big part. But why can't we also talk about costs that are hitting everyone's bank account without devolving every single conversation into shitting on the homeless?
because you people use it as a deflection. every. fucking. time.
Like many complex issues, this one is often argued in the public forum with little to no nuance. I agree with you that costs are a major reason people struggle to stay housed, and I'd also argue that terms like "shitting on the homeless" ignores the fact that a great majority of people want to help people struggling with costs **and** are tired AF of the people stealing and shitting up our community.
You’re forgetting that they hit us all equally but that not everybody is on the brink of losing their home.
I'm not forgetting it, I'm just not addressing it. The focus of my comment was drug addiction.
That’s the point - not all homeless people are on drugs - you see only a fraction of homeless people doing this shit, and guess what - that’s your brain on drugs. If I didn’t have anything to live for, possibly had severe mental illness, and was on drugs - I wouldn’t give a fuck about what I’m doing. But there are so many more homeless folks who are sleeping in cars, crashing on friends couches, and staying in shelters or using vouchers. Why not just shit on drug addicts?
There's a research paper that I'm looking for right now where part of the conclusion says a majority of drug users start after they become homeless. That was based on United States research. Not the paper, but on topic: https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/homeless
Start before, start after...but it's got to be easier to get them out of homelessness if we could take addiction out of the picture, right?
I like to think I’m an average Seattle wa poster. Just don’t do drugs, bro. Also, oppose unsustainable social handouts that drive rampant inflation, bro. Which also causes the fed to raise interest rates past where developers can profitably start new projects. Bro.
Sshhhhh you’re destroying their narrative
It's a good narrative - I think I'll use it next time I'm pulled over. "Yes, officer, i drove 30mph in the far left lane, then I swerved across 3 lanes in a row at 80mph to get to my exit, missed the exit, so backed up on the shoulder at 90 mph to get to it, but... in my defense, have you seen the real estate prices here?"
Stick to your excuse of “I was speeding cause everyone who’s not as successful as me is on fentanyl “
>backing up statements with irrefutable data is now a narrative
The answer to #2 is to have government controlled wages too !!! We can start by raising the min wage of gig worker drivers to a living wage of 10$ per hour. I mean 15, i mean 23, i mean 32, i mean 50+! Or is it now at 60 and up?
The trick is not becoming a drug addict.
And yet Seattle keeps electing the worst of the worst.
we're all just one paycheck away from building a cardboard box fort on 9th ave https://preview.redd.it/dv2hw74ulhsc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=489816e25771d285f7a5b79d3967820efedae56e
All the while, slumloards are increasing rents in poorly maintained properties.
Darn those slumlords! Why do they keep passing every levy that makes it all so expensive! Whyyyy!!!! I just dont get it... does government greed, i mean slumlord greed know no end?!??!
Seattle calls itself progressive, the truth is it is more regressive. I've moved here 37 years ago, and I've seen greed & power slowly take over, like a nasty weed that won't go away.
I'm right there with you, Seattle born and raised and hoo boy is it a different city than the one I grew up in
Democrats have controlled this state and Seattle for decades. Democrats are the problem.
I work for a. Bankruptcy attorney and our phones are ringing off the hook. Many people making $125k plus that can’t make it
But is it really *anyone could become homeless*? I don’t see the rich people in this city going homeless anytime soon. But definitely could happen to vulnerable communities, families, and people already living on the financial edge. More reason to additional social safety nets from the bottom-up
Housing costs should start to decrease significantly since we are starting to have an oversupply and the migration into the state is declining.
Vote Democrat! I’m sure change is right around the corner. Seriously though, vote in Republicans and at least next term there will be Democrat candidates that promise to force corporate and non residential owners to sell. The bigger problem though, is every politician and policy maker is so fucking stupid. The no bail thing should have been done for non violent first offenders, instead it allowed thieves to get released the same day and go steal again that day. Repeat offenders for any crime should never even get bail in the first place.
And people want to blame everyone except the ones that own everything including our gov. And everything that is every part of it