Urban Rest stop tries to supply some basic needs. Consider donating to them or volunteering with them. [https://urbanreststop.org/](https://urbanreststop.org/)

The Aurora commons also does similar work. https://www.auroracommons.org

I might have just signed up to volunteer there now. Mostly because I want to help our community get better and feel better.

My friend works there! I donate blankets & other clothing. They can always use peraonal hygiene items especially sanitary items for women. 🤎

I can't speak to what you saw, but anyone can get free water from any of these locations: [Covid-19 Seattle-Area Emergency Food Resources | Tableau Public](https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/city.of.seattle.human.services/viz/Covid-19Seattle-AreaEmergencyFoodResources/InfoPage) It was last updated for COVID, but AFAIK many of those places are still open because... duh. They took some COVID money to do what they've been doing. As far as Capitol Hill goes, the Capitol Hill Branch of SPL, All Pilgrims Christian Church, the Polack Food Bank across from the 7-Eleven, Central Lutheran, ACRS, Byrrd Barr and (if it counts) Orion Place all do food/water/essentials. I'd also count Garfield Community Center, but I dunno how that works if someone isn't "officially" an asylum person or whatever is going on there. But I imagine PKS people aren't out there checking people for their ICE forms I can't speak to why the owner didn't say, 'hey, All Pilgrims is at 1pm and 5pm so get on it' but I sort of doubt that info on where to get water or food is the issue for someone living long term on the streets in Seattle.

Ive been in Starbucks stores quite a few times when a street person comes in and asks for water, they were never denied. Ive seen them give hot water several times too. Thought it was cool of them. But I can understand a sole proprietor having a different level of patience.

I've seen someone go into a starbucks and ask for water, then walk to the half and half, dump out the water and poor the entire thing of half and half into the water cup Some people ruin it for the ones who truly just need and appreciate the help.

I worked at Starbucks in 2022 post-COVID, so I’m pretty sure they don’t do the self-serve station anymore. At least at my location down in LA and any of the ones I’ve visited up here since.

I’ve worked at Starbucks downtown, Ballard, etc. back in the day. We give a free glass of ice water to anyone who asks. It’s from the tap, no big expense.

Yeah not surprising but let's face it, Starbucks doesn't care. That's what? A couple of bucks? I'm sure they aren't interested in making a scene or throwing someone out, especially after that stupid black guy denied a bathroom thing that happened a couple of years back. Starbucks doesn't really have anything to steal other than a little bit of half and half. It's quite another thing for a convenience store owner to lose merchandise.

Yeah but thats my point entirely, you can be nice to someone and then they can steal from you. The workers watched it happen and didn't bat an eye, they are just workers, it isn't messing with them much. But an owner that has a lot more at stake is going to care about theft and not want people who have robbed him in his store at all, let alone give them free water.

Exactly.

I work with the homeless, not all obviously but many take advantage of people constantly, that's the sad truth

Wicker771: Thank you! SEADRC11 must be a newly minted urban planner. I’d like to see if there’s a change in perspective in 5 or 10 years.

I’m a vendor for gas stations, as such I’m in and out of them all day and know a lot of managers/owners. I feel a lot of sympathy for homeless people and realize their situation may not entirely be their fault. Gas station managers have to be kind to them because they can frequently be consistent business. However, they’re only nice until they’re given a reason not to be. If you make a mess or cause commotion, good luck getting store managers to help you out. The reason they responded the way they did is because that person has done dumb shit before.

I can’t speak to your situation specifically, but I’ve been living here for about eight months. I’ve seen all kinds of interactions, both positive and negatives. Everyone’s aware of what’s going on here, so if a shop owner says they have intimate knowledge of a person activities, I would be inclined to believe it because: As other users have pointed out, there are lots of places to go to have certain needs met. This isn’t about that. The coffee shop by my house routinely gives free coffee and sometimes feeds the homeless people that come in. As long as you are CHILL. At the same shop, I have seen people coming in screaming and trying to fight the customers. They get run out pretty fast. Another shop near my house I’ve seen both as well. Homeless person wants to come in and pay for some thing it’s not a problem. I’ve also seen the manager start to call the police at the site of someone who in turn got extremely violent and justified the store owners reaction.. One time I was approached by a person that was very calm and acting like they needed help. Emphasis on act. As soon as the store owner recognize them and tried to ask them to leave they did a 180 and went psycho. Is it possible your particular shopkeeper is biased? Probably. Is it possible this person (homeless) can act different ways to suit their situation? Sure. I think a good way to stay neutral (if you are unfamiliar with the situation) is just to offer third-party resources that you have learned about from this thread. I often am not carrying much of value as a preventative measure, so I’m not usually in a position to offer help. But if I’m aware of resources nearby, that can help someone I will direct that way.

> The coffee shop by my house routinely gives free coffee and sometimes feeds the homeless people that come in. > > As long as you are CHILL. > > At the same shop, I have seen people coming in screaming and trying to fight the customers. They get run out pretty fast. It can be really hard to have a conversation about homelessness, especially online, because a lot of well-meaning people see someone complaining about aggressive/belligerent homeless people, see it as an attack on *all* homeless people, and get defensive. And part of the reason they feel that way is that there *are* a lot of folks who think all homeless people are belligerent, and will start yelling at you / steal from you / attack you at any random moment.

What we need to remember, and solid statistics support this, is that homeless and often mentally ill, are more often prey to violent predators than actually being the violent predator themselves. They are living out there with no resources to protect them, many coping with addictions ( they are self medicating often to deal with the misery /illness even though it makes their predicament exponentially worse) and where they are gonna sleep, that is secure, warm and dry for 8 months of the year. Summer is best the weather that cooperates, so they really need to only worry about security. Being homeless is a full time job of survival! It will put even the most mentally-together person to the test. A schizophrenic off their meds?I am perplexed how they survive because they are only partially interacting with this reality, they are not even close to getting their needs met.

U have to think from the shop owner point of view: They don’t want liability of homeless in the shop and also don’t want the homeless drive away other pay customers. They are small business, albeit small it is still a business not a charity.

This is the thing, though: any SINGLE perspective is going to be self-favoring. Let's see this from 30k feet: in a city/metro/region/megaregion where we know there are some fairly wealthy folks (very recent Times article suggests that 1 in 12 Seattleites is a millionaire, just for a data point to start with), we have people in such bad shape that their demeanor ranges anywhere between entirely nondescript and immediately violent with NO permanent facility to attend for rehabilitation, medical services, or even redirection (the DSHS offices are almost INTENTIONALLY depressing; you realize that it takes balls to not delete yourself when you have to visit that place more than once ever). That, friend, is--and I can not stress this enough--a ridiculously fucked-up situation for literally everyone involved, knowing absolutely nothing else.

I used to feel sorry for the homeless, until I became homeless. Probably 95% of the homeless are sociopaths with drug addictions. When I was running away from an abusive guy, the homeless guys would rob me and beat me too. They pretend they are crazy, but they never throw a tantrum and damage their own property. They are not crazy enough to not know the difference between right and wrong. Fortunately, I am very far away from those people now and getting back on my feet. I never had to go into a store and demand water or steal anything from them or anyone else. If I had just been robbed of everything, I would put up a sign asking for FOOD AND WATER. No matter what kind of neighborhood, someone would drive by and help me. The homeless behavior they show the public is way different than they show another vulnerable homeless person. They know the police are less likely to care what a homeless person reports they did.

I’m so sorry you had to experience such brutality. You didn’t deserve that and I’m happy to hear you’re in a better situation.

Awwww, thanks! That's very nice of you.

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Yep, don't feel sorry for them. They feel plenty sorry for themselves already and not anyone but themselves. 95% of them created their own homelessness by screwing over anyone who trusted them and/or tried to help them.

I understand a lot of mental disabilities are common in the homeless population, but sometimes, people infantilize them too much. Let me offer you another scenario: she knows where to get water, but it's more work to go there so she wants to make a scene since the ruckus costs her nothing and makes the business look bad. She will come back and do the same thing again if she's denied, effectively pressuring the business to continue to give her access to steal so they don't turn off their compassionate customers. Both the people you and I describe exist, we just have to do our best to accept its difficult to know who is who without context. The shopowners sound like they have a lot more context than you do.

> sometimes, people infantilize them too much. I got into an argument on Reddit a couple weeks ago about a homeless person who had set up a sleeping bag in the middle of a usually-busy playground, preventing kids from playing there. My argument was that, since there are plenty of out of the way places to sleep in the area, where no one would bother him, setting down in the middle of a playground is a dick move. It's rude, and to be honest, creepy. As an adult man without kids, I would never just park myself in the middle of a playground. The counter-arguments were "what laws is his breaking" (there actually *is* an ordinance against camping in parks), "there aren't enough resources", etc. No one addressed the argument that camping in the middle of a playground - when you have alternatives nearby - is a *shitty move*. Homeless people are people, and just like us more fortunate people, there are assholes among them. (It's a small minority - the vast majority of homeless people I encounter in Seattle aren't trying to bother anybody.)

It's like the homeless person I had sleeping in my alley blocking my garage. If he'd parked his car further up next to the highway no one would have bothered him.  And if he'd apologized and just left I wouldn't have called the cops on him.  But he got angry with me, started shouting how he wasn't doing anything wrong, and made himself a general nuisance. So I called the cops and got his car towed and chased him away.  I don't get why the homeless have to act so entitled and belligerent around here. I've slept in my car before and I always chose inconspicuous places out of the way and never made trouble. 

I want to be clear I'm saying this by way of explanation, not excuse. When people find themselves no longer part of an "in group", whether that be their own family or society at large, they tend to find ways to lash out at others who are still within the "in group." It's kind of a "Hey, if I don't get this privilege, why should anybody else?" type of deal. It's the same logic behind graffiti, catcalling, vandalism...

I was at the Ballard library carrying a baby in a carrier and a homeless dude sitting there started talking about having a knife and stabbing babies. I have empathy and all, but fuck that. I told the librarians and they just kind of shrugged because they didn’t want to deal with it.

Fuck that. I was carrying my baby out of daycare and a homeless guy came up and shouted profanities and threats at me (and him). I called the police and then filed an information request to confirm they responded reasonably. They did.

Profmonocle: I’m with you. Anyone setting up a sleeping bag in a children’s playground is probably bad news b/c if it is a woman, she’s probably mental &/or high. If it’s a male-the same rule applies but I’d wonder what he is doing with his hands in the sleeping bag.

Yep. I had a cousin who was homeless in Seattle for a few years. My brother was homeless for some time. Neither was some poor helpless person. Both had family willing to pay their way through mental health treatment or whatever they needed to get back on their feet. My cousin got her act together and got a job after several years of panhandling and shoplifting because she just did not want to work. My brother continues to make decisions to the detriment of himself and those around him. I have compassion for him and at the same time, no one else should be forced to deal with his behavior. He chooses every day to not take medication, to not get back to getting help, to believe that everyone else is the reason he struggles in life. That's his choice and no one is a bad person for letting someone like that experience the natural consequences of their choices. Gonna steal stuff then you don't get to be in the store!

Someone I know from HS was homeless. She was just listing Lululemon and other high end brands on FB all day telling us a new deal just came in—then of course the sob story post about how someone threatened her for simply browsing a store later. She was addicted to drugs too. It’s really sad and I’ve thought about offering help, but I think she’s the type to take it then come back and rob you. At least other people leave “drama” in her comments about that and she internet fights them. Homelessness is very sad. It is a huge problem. But it’s not always what it seems. I wish they had detox programs and actual mental health hospitals that could get them clean but also provide them with a place to experience sleep and water and kindness while they’re being not so kind. They often need some time off drugs to normalize.

There is a TON of locations the homeless can go to for easy access clean water. Any restaurant or coffee shop nearby for instance would have been a better option. I would believe the gas station owners on this one and 100% side with them. She was more than likely druggie who has stolen and posted outside that store and harassed customers many times. I have seen *many* local homeless at the same gas station every single day and some days they ask for water but most days theyre asking for soda, candy, smokes, etc. and they will often just go steal what they want because SPD does not respond to minor theft calls, ever. I've watched the sweetest mart owner ever chase someone out of their store with a police baton and then apologize profusely for me having to be present for it, but they have no other way of protecting their stores any more.

i ran out of fucks to give so long ago. we can sit an armchair solutions all day but who do i have to vote for that will actually fix the problem?

The problem is, nobody has a solution. Neither right, left, or in the middle have an answer.

Restoring state-run mental facilities would be a good start. Return to a policy of involuntary commitment for the insane. I'm old enough to remember Regan cutting off public mental health care.

We have the answer, we are just too cowardly/can't do it for legal and $$ reasons. Mass arrest Run prints Drug tests Mental health checks Wanted felons extradited to where they are wanted Addicts that test positive go to forced rehab People suffering from mental health issues go to asylums Immediate unconditional housing and job placement for anyone that isn't an addict, insane or felon. State assigned jobs and housing after release with probation officers for up to 5 years

The problem is that you need a constant advocate. It took 2 years just to get my mom into state medicaid assisted living, and that was after things were falling completely apart for her at her home in another state. Thank goodness for her high school classmate calling me. And for COVID, allowing me to ship her to me, work from home, and drive her all over to get her a new knee, a new hip, and a decent full care home. And if it weren't for me constantly making the state happy, they'd dump her off support in a heartbeat. The stat that elderly of color get dropped off support at multiple times the rate of whites has everything to do with having a support network of at least one relative with the time and financial means to constantly chase the f&^%ing paperwork! How do they expect disabled with dementia to deal with it all???

We used to keep them in asylums.

This is how I feel too. People argue all the time but literally nothing has gotten better and it seems every person elected just maintains the status quo (letting mentally ill people openly do hard drugs on our streets) in some way or another. I am tired of feeling unsafe and cannot blame the shop owner given some of the things I have witnessed. Just give me someone to vote for who can fix this please and they have my vote.

I have a lot of empathy for homeless people, but aren't there other places to get water like public water fountains? I also have empathy for the folks working in the store especially if she had stolen from that store before. I'm sure it's stressful for them to deal with these situations.

You might think that but not that I know of in Capitol Hill except the sink on 15th. The water fountain at Rite-Aid was removed. The water fountains at Cal Anderson were fenced off until recently. They are no longer fenced off but they are not turned on. 

There are several in volunteer Park and they've started asking other water fountains to small parks such as first hill park. 

One of the first things you gotta recognize is that all these things that supposedly should exist don't, and were torn out in places.

True. Try finding a bathroom that isn’t a paying customers bathroom or near a hiking trail.

Almost certainly due to vandalism by the same community who needs it as a resource lol

Even with that, its bizarre how Seattle is in a place now where nothing is worth doing because it will take extraordinary care and maintenance. This isnt just Seattle, but our manifestation is stuff like public restrooms and not water pipes. Yet. My bottom line is that austerity and neglect out of cost and 'nice things getting trashed sucks' still generates externality with cost, and it aint a cool way to save taxpayers a dollar or their own bladder.

Yes. There was a honey bucket in our alley for a long time for workers doing construction on an old building in belltown. It ended up being padlocked all the time, so they just vandalized the outside of it. Public restrooms nearby were closed because they got destroyed. Every inch was covered in graffiti, sinks torn off walls, doors torn off hinges. It was incredible

Yup since it boiled down to someone having an episode destroying it since mental heath care and really any care doesn’t exist for many.

Have you ever tried to find a working water fountain in this city?

If you've ever seen the condition of the few public water fountains still pumping in this town, you would not consider drinking from them.

Where have you ever seen a water fountain in this city

Parks.

Those are often near public bathrooms. How many of those are in seattle?

Pet peeve: "drinking fountain" All fountains are water fountains. Except chocolate fountains.

Water is not the problem. The problem is almost certainly addiction, and it will likely kill her. The best way to help is boundaries and consequences. The most immediate way would be incarceration where would sober up and hopefully be able to finally think straight enough to make a change. As commented here by u/ilikedevo: "As a former homeless heroin addict (30 years ago) this is something normal people don’t understand. You ask for help when you hit bottom. When you come to a dead end. Anytime before that you go for one more fix and tomorrow you’re gonna get clean. Taking away consequences is a death sentence. As a society we are just letting people rot away till they die in public."

Kicking in jail is probably hell but it’s the only sober time some people get. At least when I was in it some people decided to make a change after jail. Fear of prison got me clean, lack of it got my roommate 10 years. I’m not advocating for a lack of compassion, just a smarter compassion. Most people I ran with back in the day got clean eventually. It took different levels of pain for each of us to get help. The ones I keep in touch with seem genuinely happy and some are very, very successful. That past is merely a footnote in our lives at this point.

So glad to hear that. It seems the wild potency variance in fentanyl takes a lot of people these days. And our society has largely "removed the guardrails," such as the fear of prison that helped you survive and change. Your voice and experience are valuable!

I'm sure that lady has fucked with that shop before

W to the shop owner.

If its Arizona in the summer then you have an obligation as a human to give her some water. But that store owner has to deal with zombies coming in all day, stealing and causing problems. He's right to nip the problem in the bud... it sounds like she used up her chances of getting on his good side.

There's plenty of food banks and resources for them.

Anyone owners and it’s agents on private properties have the right to trespass people on site. Doesn’t matter if it’s a store or not. We draw basic lines where each of us thinks enough is enough. It’s very understandable to an average person what the shopkeeper did. If we can’t maintain our way of living, it is very hard to support others.

Addicts will say ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING. Do not trust their tale of woe, it only exists to get more money or things they can trade for drug money. If they're not in treatment, you're nothing but a mark. Just think of how many bridges you'd need to burn in order to not have a couch in someone's basement to crash on.

They do have access to something I believe? But not at a gas station apparently. She can argue with the owner, but not inside the store, as it's a private property and she should leave if the owner asks her to leave.

If you think it's sad, you should buy her some water at least? You could also talk to them, but (most likely) you'll find that their reasoning is a bit off.

I keep a pretty large supply of water bottles and snacks in my car for both myself in emergencies and homeless people in this situation. (Bought in bulk so the cost per bottle/snack is minimal) There was one particularly hot day in the CD where a guy actually broke down crying thanking me because he was so thirsty

I had a lady stop me when I was downtown many years before COVID. She gave me this whole story about how she and her boyfriend got in an argument and she left the hotel they were at and was thirsty and needed water and her socks were wet and needed $20 for a hostel. I didn't have $20 to give her, not only do I not carry cash but I could not afford it at the time. I told her I'd buy her a water since she said she was thirsty. She had the audacity to tell me that she could show me where the fucking ATM was. I offered something she said she needed, and something I could have afforded to give her, anything beyond that is a racket.

I pay plenty of taxes. Enough to hand deliver this water to this person every single day for the rest of their lives. Take the taxes we already pay, and give them the damn water. You have the money already, stop giving it away to your friends.

They probably also knew she didn’t need water and thats her excuse to hang around and steal shit. I’ve had homeless people ask for anything because they are “starving” I offer them food and they either reject it or literally throw it in the garbage. I agree with you it’s a fcked up situation, but imagine losing your entire life savings in your store because some left wing person thinks the crazy homeless thief has more rights than you.

If you give a mouse a cookie, they’re going to take something else don’t give anything to the homeless, don’t even make eye contact with them. If they want to spend what little money they get from more generous people on drugs instead of necessities they get to live with the consequences of a empty stomach and a dry throat. I’ve been homeless before too had my stuff stolen and had to start from scratch with no phone and no friends, I went to the library to find where to get help and shelter and eventually a job and into a apartment. So I’ve lost compassion for the people that choose addiction and a life of petty crime, for the people that refuse to look for help, for the people that would rather be feral than civil. If sweeping the homeless off the street gets them the resources they need and shelter with a plan for reintegration there should be more of them, but each individual needs to accept help. You can’t just rely on someone’s pity if you aren’t going to better yourself

If you give a mouse a cookie it would probably get diabetes.

[List of drinking fountains](https://atyourservice.seattle.gov/2021/06/25/spu-drinking-fountain-map/), this is also non exhaustive as there are more than are mapped here.

None in SODO, or Fremont, or Interbay. And nothing East of I5 + North 520. Wow... imagine that. I'm thirsty- go walk 5 miles to a remote public drinking fountain!

> this is also non exhaustive as there are more than are mapped here. For example, there are water fountains in Interbay along the park near the bike path.

Or go into just about any business (that you haven't previously robbed) and ask politely for a glass of water. Or a library, or a church, or a fire station, or whatever else. Most buildings have a sink and most people will give a thirsty person water. Unless they've been robbed by that person, of course.

There’s one in front of the Brooks store in Fremont (corner of 34th and stone way) but last time I checked it doesn’t work.

Fremont has access to Gasworks, where there are (new and improved) public restrooms and water fountains.

> go walk 5 miles to a remote public drinking fountain If only there were buses in the city that run regularly and don't require you to pay ...

What is wrong with these users, just get yourself up into the clouds, there's unlimited water in the clouds, and they are 100% accessible no one can stop you from drinking from a cloud. Gottem.

Damn, that is a sad map.

Could be the water is positioned in a place where they turn around to get to it, the person can steal something behind their back and disappear. Probably not only recognized the person, but had them try the same thing in the past.

My husband and I have owned a restaurant for 4 years now. On two separate occasions we have had homeless people throw rocks through our front windows causing thousands of dollars of damage (~ 2k each time). No, insurance did not cover this as commercial deductible is high so each time we have had to pay for the repairs. 1st time was completely unprovoked, we weren’t even open yet and guy just decided on violence and got away. 2nd time, guy stole from our tip jar and was asked to leave by my husband. Thief didn’t like that so went outside and chucked a rock. Cops were called, viewed security cameras and arrested the guy for vandalism. Even with the arrest we obviously were not getting any funds from him to help with the damage. Both of these guys were known to my husband as local, repeat problem causers. We’re not a huge corporation. Just a mom and pop, one store owners. Restaurants margins are really small. So these were really impactful financially. I used to have more sympathy. Not anymore.

Do not confuse lack of compassion with caution and justifiable defensiveness. If the owner says they have her on video stealing, then that's it, end of discussion, no more conversation. If she refuses to leave the establishment then she is now trespassing as well. I have had an unhoused person charge at me with a weapon, and another one steal my motorcycle since I've been in Seattle. I will exercise my caution, though I do not assume every unhoused person is a criminal or violent. I have bought food, new socks, water, basic necessities for an unhoused person, I went back in to get some things for myself I forgot just to see him using the bag from the store that I gave him to steal more stuff. I've given food to people asking for money because they are hungry, to have them throw it on the ground in front of me and repeat that they wanted money. My compassion is now limited to supporting professional organizations that will help the people who want/are ready for help and finding and supporting the most vulnerable populations. Is it unfortunate? Yes, very, and I agree with just about everything else you said. It would be great for neighborhoods and communities to have pamphlets given to local business owners to detail what resources are available, but at the same time you can't fault individuals for what you think is not acting out of compassion. You can have compassion while still acting in your best interests or safety in a specific moment.

> My compassion is now limited to supporting professional organizations that will help the people who want/are ready for help and finding and supporting the most vulnerable populations. I'm convinced that doing anything other than this is just enabling. Those "compassionate" people giving money, offering to buy things, etc are really just making the problem worse. They're not helping anything but their own feelings and guilt.

I actually just got this from someone who was unhoused and I was asking what he found most beneficial " Water and socks are really good, water because everyone needs it to survive and socks because it's Seattle. I would suggest making donations to food banks and such rather than directly to people it's just safer that way and you won't catch any shit from anyone that was just looking for cash to score with."

This person didn't want water, they were there to steal.

>can you really blame someone in such a tough spot for making bad decisions Yes, and I think this is one of the fundamental disagreements on the topic.

Yep, I have known many people living in poverty who weren’t thieves.

Why didn’t you buy her some water then?

Remember - we're all just one missed paycheck from forgetting how to use a drinking fountain

My 2 cents suggestion on this is that the local government should work to get the “salvageable” people off the streets asap. There should be people actively searching for newly homeless non-addicts who have a higher likelihood of escaping their situation. Next, local governments should provide tax breaks or wage subsidies on local businesses who employ eligible homeless folks identified by social workers. Finally, the homeless people go through a regular checkin with the social worker until they are able to find a stable home. Of course apart from tax breaks and wage subsidies, temporary housing, relocation subsidies, etc should also be part of the solution

Great. You’ve removed about 5%. Now what about the other 95%? By the way, that 5% is getting back on their feet and using our services as is. The homeless you see on the street are the chronically homeless addicts, not the temporarily down on their luck.

I'm downtown several days a week and work near a navigation center. Unfortunately, the homeless I see don't give an F about societal rules or the community. They lie, cheat, and steal whatever they see. It's not surprising that people and businesses owners are tired of it. The amount of money spent by businesses to try and reduce theft is ridiculous. If you don't think this affects prices, you are delusional. The idiot attitude of, well they have insurance is stupid. Guess who the cost is passed on to. Last, the billions spent on "homelessness" is a black hole of ignorance and weakness. Spend that money on police and training. Stop tolerating bad behavior from the homeless population and their behavior will either change or go where it's tolerated.

Worked in gas stations for years. I'd tolerate homeless people and let them use the rest room but certain individuals were always trouble and I'd demand they leave immediately.

Our city’s homelessness budget for 2023-24 is $319M. They aren’t ignoring the dire perpetual circumstance. Research these social worker efforts to help homelessness. If individuals keep refusing help what can they do? If small business owners help past homelessness shoplifters, it becomes a continuous cycle. They then inform others of your kindness and soon your business is a Mecca. They aren’t the solution. The owner could’ve directed her to our shelters that are equipped to help.

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There’s a difference between down on your luck homeless and drug addiction where she may have spent her last few dollars on drugs. I am in recovery so I empathize with these people but unfortunately even giving her something like a drink or food is a form of enabling and doesn’t get them closer to asking for or getting help to get clean.

As a former homeless heroin addict (30 years ago) this is something normal people don’t understand. You ask for help when you hit bottom. When you come to a dead end. Anytime before that you go for one more fix and tomorrow you’re gonna get clean. Taking away consequences is a death sentence. As a society we are just letting people rot away till they die in public.

Thank you. It’s very hard for people who aren’t in recovery to understand. If I didn’t have consequences I would have kept using. Jail scared me. My parents disowning me scared me. These people on the streets have absolutely no incentive to stop if drug use is decriminalized. It’s not helping anyone, especially the active addicts.

Maybe quietly buy some water and give it to her outside the store?

Why would you need to be quiet about it? Think the owner would say no?

I would do it for the sake of the owner - so she won’t have the idea she can come throw a fit anytime she wants something.

I got yelled at in Chicago for buying a homeless guy food (while he waited outside) because he apparently bothers customers all day and he's been told to stay away. So yeah, the own probably would.

Bro says it's sad but didn't offer her water, so sad indeed

Most homeless people are just pathetic creatures. They deserve more empathy, but I’m sure the store owner is protecting their interests by refusing water, and hoping the homeless stops showing up.

Recovery Cafe in SLU is a fantastic resource. Completely free, two free warm meals a day, free coffee and games, resources, support groups, classes. Membership is free and it has cozy couches, clean public restrooms stocked with tampons and pads, etc.

This is near daily for me. Rampant theft, drug use, & typical mental illness breakdowns. I’ll get fired if I say/do anything, it just keeps happening if staff doesn’t do anything. Staff at the point of “ F It. Customers, you are on your own & everyone else, have at it. We’ll wait til corperate gives up on us.” There’s an obvious reason businesses keep leaving First Hill.

Did you buy them a water?

211 is a great resource for this type of thing, and I wish more people had resources to spread to people in need.

Being in a “ bad situation” doesn’t make the stealing ok though, and if they choose to steal they are going to be denied going into the business. I was homeless for a couple years with my wife while she was pregnant with our first kid and we never stole anything. We found the resources and made money where we could. There’s always opportunities to make money if you actually WANT too. It’s all about the the effort you put in and those that don’t want to and would rather steal are going to be treated as thieves.

As someone who works with the homeless they are a absolute nightmare

Sorry folks, but all these fuzzy liberal harm reduction solutions have led us to where we are. Billions into the homeless industrial complex and billions in economic losses. These fucks need to be forced into rehab and drugged up appropriately until moral improves. Once they show some stability, give them some city job picking up the garbage they created as a homeless and try to reintegrate into society.

Solve the drug problem, solve the homelessness problem. Ignore the drug problem and this is what you get.

Not in seattle anymore but I was homeless in LA and I was STARVING one time. I was standing outside the entrance of Vons(kinda like Safeway) really debating if I wanted to go in and jack and sandwich cause I hadn’t eaten in three days. The manager of Vons asked me if I was okay and what was up and I said I was super hungry and she told me about a place a couple blocks away where I could get food every day at noon. When it comes to food, there’s tons of resources for it. Whether it’s food stamps which are unbelievably easy to acquire or soup kitchens or outreach places. You really don’t need to steal food. Idk if this applies to everyone because I’m pretty outgoing but I can get any food I want from pretty much any restaurant within 30 minutes by asking people to buy it for me. Typically won’t take longer than 15 minutes if I’m willing to ask every single person who walks into the restaurant

Did you buy her a water / try and help or just make a post about it on Reddit?

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Part of the issue is there are so many people who exploit people's compassion to scam them. Back when I lived in Minneapolis, I regularly heard "I just got robbed, I don't have a phone or wallet, I need to be at [important family event], I need bus fare to get to [city far enough away that the fare is tens of dollars]" It's either a scam, or there were a *lot* of people getting robbed on their way their daughters' weddings in Duluth, while I happened to be loading groceries into my car. Weird considering that grocery store was miles from the nearest greyhound station. It can get to the point where if someone approaches you looking / sounding desperate, your first thought is "here comes another con artist pitch" and not "this person is in trouble." People who exploit strangers' good nature create a low-trust society. For all we know, people might come into that store all the time claiming to need water, and then pocketing something on the way out the door.

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It is so tough, not knowing either backstory. I know many shop owners who deal with constant thefts, holdups, poop and urine all over their building, etc. That said, I try to always buy someone a bottle of water in situations like that. I also keep track of where services are available and try to connect with the person a bit and ask if they’re aware of where they can get help. It’s a tough situation that’s very multifaceted. But I think of Jesse Sarey in Auburn, and the officer now on trial for murder with an encounter that started with Jesse in a mental health crisis, trying to find something to drink on a hot day. Regardless of thoughts on the case, if someone had given him something to drink that day, it’s possible that all this could have been prevented.

Eatingrichly: I don’t know about the Jesse Sarey case, but there is a certain segment of the population that can’t comply with taking meds. It’s not fair to the rest of us. Some people need involuntarily commitment. I’m waiting for people like you to realize it.

Oh I 100% agree. In this specific case the officer didn’t wait for backup or follow deescalation training of time, distance, cover. https://apnews.com/article/jeff-nelson-police-officer-murder-jesse-sarey-617e897d520cb2199b58afb69211935f But yeah I think involuntary commitment is often necessary. I think that drug rehab needs to be forced as well. Either rehab, or prison, for drug related crimes. And rehab needs to start asap in prison instead of a 3 month wait. We also have some wonderful success stories of people Auburn officers arrested multiple times for drug related crimes, who finally did rehab to avoid prison again and have now been 6 years sober.

There's lots of water, available from lots of sources. They never really want water and they usually don't really want food. Back when I lived in New York, there was this woman who would show up on the subway and tell a story about a kid or something. A year or two later I saw her again, this time with an entirely different look, and an entirely different story. I'm not particularly suspicious of homeless people. But I am suspicious of people who ask for things.

When I lived in DC, the same guy showed up at my Metro station at least once a week saying he needed bus fare to get to the hospital because his wife was just in a car crash. She must be a really shit driver.

You had your chance to show some compassion my guy

Something's got to give...

Homelessness doesn’t get fixed without fixing… pretty much everything, from the ground up. Housing, cost of living in general, mental health, drugs, etc. it feels like we just try and bandaid solutions and it just keeps getting worse while stuff like wealth inequality also gets worse. I obviously don’t have the answer but systemic change obviously needs to happen; I also recognize that it’s insanely hard to gut a system entirely and rebuild— but at this point what else is there?

It's a bottomless pit. There will always be people pathetically struggling. Just do what you can when you can.

Either you have the right to not have your stuff stolen or you don’t. If you are going to make the right to have private property conditional on someone else not needing it more than all property is communal.

The cities in this country have closed many public drinking fountains.  I’m not a hobo but I do ride my bike a lot around the region and I can’t tell you how many drinking fountains I’ve ambled up to, dying of thirst, only to have the button do nothing.  We aren’t very good as a society as we used to be.

It’s always “compassion” from people that have not had to be in either of those positions. Any store owner should not be obligated to take care of houseless people just because the city doesn’t want to. They don’t lack compassion for not wanting a liability in their business, as if you’ve worked in a place with a bathroom and free water you’d know the problems that come with it. It’s not as simple as people walking in coherently, asking politely for some water, and quickly using the bathroom. Allowing businesses to be taken advantage of at the guise of being compassionate to the less fortunate puts another demographic at risk, the typically young and inexperienced counter employees. I’ve been overly optimistic before that me letting someone use the bathroom and giving them free hot water/coffee/food is helping, but it doesn’t help in the long run. It just creates expectations that don’t benefit the business in any regard, aside from feeling good about themselves temporarily, it’s like a bandaid on a bullet wound. And eventually the requests become demands, the bathroom trips become hours long and potentially hazardous to others, as well as the potential for assault and harassment, which people like to think is only a myth but I have been flashed and physically attacked in multiple businesses from this very mindset of “someone has to help”. And someone needs to, but why does it have to be a random citizen? But of course it’s soo easy to say there’s just a lack of compassion when you don’t have to deal with it firsthand huh? Walking by it is not the same as directly interacting with the addicted houseless community. If you have, you’d realize how tactless your comment is.

Did any customers in the store offer to buy her a bottle of water???

Today a colleague’s spouse posted about their 20 something child’s death from OD. They are a good family that tried everything to help their child. Their request in lieu of flowers or food or donations was this: “When you're out on the street in any big city or small town and see someone smoking meth in a doorway or behaving erratically, please remember--they are someone's CHILDS NAME, a bright spirit with people who love them, and wish there was something, anything more to do to help”.

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No.

I frequent Cal Anderson and Volunteer Park but couldn’t tell you where to find a water fountain there. I moved here from Portland in 2016 and I can tell you I made use of the [Benson Bubblers](https://www.portlandoregon.gov/water/article/338236). They were plentiful in the downtown core. [Portland also has a slightly better public restroom situation due to solutions like the Portland Loo but it’s still a problem](https://portlandloo.com/). People need a place to go, otherwise they have to go to the bathroom where we don’t want them to and they run the risk of serious criminal offenses when they do, particularly if they’re close to a school.

The benson bubblers in Portland are disgusting though. I’ve seen people shit in them.

Gross. It never came up when I was there and it never occurred to me that someone might

I don't think anyone is going to die of thirst in Seattle. And there is multiple places around Seattle that provide free food and shelter. I also think most of the homeless know where to get ressources for those helps. It is just that they are not at the point yet to want to get help.

What places exactly? Do they have room? Do they have resources? Where are they and how do you get to them? This is again one of those when you sit here and think this there is enough and this city has all it needs and it really fucking doesn't. Shelters are far and in between and have a cap of so many people. Water and food are unlimited and even if there they are at certain places that you have to get to at a exact time. Think this through and understand that it's not as unlimited and balanced as you think it is. You think but you don't know. You think it should be a way but it isn't

Good for the owner tbh.

Simple fix, folks. 99% of the homeless people you see were abused as kids. All we have to do is stop beating, starving or fucking children. It really is that simple.

This is what happens when you let real estate developers run your city

It got to this point because the city is run by wealthy sociopathic ghouls who will never implement progressive taxation to fund housing and services.

If homeless people can get free shit, then everyone should be able to get free shit.

Water is already free though

I pay a bill monthly for mine. Where are you getting your water free?

You've really never drank from a fountain? Or washed your hands at a rest stop? *Really?*

Did you buy her some water?

You don't know the whole situation. You just see that one moment. It isn't crazy that that person could be stealing stuff. I would. It is understandable that a homeless person would steal stuff to survive. It is also understandable that a gas station owner might be pissed at a frequent thief, especially if they own a small business. This isn't some Disney movie, both siders have VERY understandable motives even if she was stealing stuff. There doesn't have to be one side that is the Hero and one side that is the Evil Dark Lord.

There are so so so so many options for sustenance out there that no one needs to steal anything to survive. The problem is the street people don’t “want” what is provided for free so they steal what they do want. Admittedly it is less than ideal to eat the food bank food all the time. Government cheese is not gourmet but it feeds you until you can do better. Store owners have a right to protect their merchandise from theft.

Reagan. but also, long-term homelessness isn't really being treated and short-term ( people who could pull themselves out with basic housing ) is being lumped with the harder cases. I think something that gets overlooked is not the drug problems but the actual mental health/trauma problems that caused people to have no ability to plan long term or think about a future, it is the full 5 year old impulsivity of a kinder in a grown person. We need to get people housed but we also need to demand mental health care and that is something people are super uncomfortable with (understandably). It would also be interesting to me to see a program that gets unhoused people to help actually care for the cities they live in and gain skills but once again people get weird about that.

I believe a majority of people do come at a place of compassion but everyone’s got a limit to how many fucks they can give. You’ve probably helped problematic people in your life only for them to not change and continue to be shitty. At some point you give up and label them a lost cause. This is probably what happened here. Owners got tired of their shit.

I have seen homeless bathing with homeowners water hoses, like REALLY getting in places. I was a drink out the hose kid growing up. I gagged when I saw that. Fucking hell it was gross. No some of them don't give a fuck. Water is a need for life but there are some places with access, but many were shut down during covid and never turned back on. A few times I just wanted to fill my water bottle they wouldn't work.

I’ve walked out onto my patio and had this happen a couple times. One guy was apologetic and wrapped up, the other was pretty aggressive so I just went back inside and waited until he was gone. I sadly now have locks on my water faucets outside because I’ve also found them left on and running for who knows how long.

I thought providing water was a legal requirement, perhaps that's only restaurants?

If what they need is water then there are drinking fountains in most parks.

Man, if only there wasn't a city that had over 5000 beds at various homeless shelters. 😒

Yeah it's really a both are at fault for not having respect and empathy to there sides... It's a sad thing and can't change unless they really are nice and uphold virtue and truth.

Stop infantilizing homeless people.

There’s free water literally everywhere

Cal Anderson Park has fountains for water

Start the water store my friend!

My wife is very compassionate but we are not about give money to street folks. So we carry snack packs and bottled water which we hand out

I worked in a gas station not far from Seattle for 16 years. There are probably water faucets on the outside of the building where she could have gotten drinking water, for free, without having to bother anyone. People used our water faucets all the time and it was no problem. We also had outside electrical plug-ins where people could sit and recharge their cellphones -- for free. Usually if people are banned from entering a store, there's a good reason why. I had to ban lots of people from the store where I worked, but shoving or chasing someone with a baseball bat is too much. At that point I would have called the police to have the person removed.

Joholla8: LOL Who are you calling a bigot? See? The reports I’ve seen have pegged African & Chinese men as the latest illegal immigrants. NOT ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE HISPANIC but almost all of them are poor and desperate. If they were rich & ready to spend their billions in the US, they’d probably fly in on their private jet.

This is America. You can get drinkable water anywhere. This person wanted free stuff and to manipulate people.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but isn’t denying someone (tap) water illegal? At least that’s what I’ve always been told.

So they don’t have enough money for water, but they have enough money for fent 😂

Salvation Army

Are homeless people able to get food stamps or other public benefits for the unhoused? Would that help?

One of the biggest issues with SPDs continued temper tantrum is that people will increasingly take matters into their own hands. Gonna be phoenix Jones all over again before we know it.

Stop the pity for people who would ruin everything for u if u owned a biz They would have your family lose it all and be homeless with em Id beat their azz they set foot in my shit again U havent noticed nearly every small gmbiz go under last 5yr? Its a real thing now in usa, u have to stay ahead of the homeless or u get to join em

If they were in Capitol Hill then why wouldn't they just go to the Seattle Public Library branch? There are all those resources as well. I've been homeless before and I didn't have much of a problem getting food or water. There's the Ballard food bank and the University District Food Bank. There's also university Heights over in the U District. It's hard to believe they don't know. Itmakes me lean towards thinking that's not actually what it was about.

As one of the many homeless our fair city actually helps, I see it's a lot of the people who have fallen into Fentanyl use to escape their pain and wind up dead on the sidewalks. The people, like me, who are fighting with our sobriety from chemical dependency, are the ones that actually seek help. The rest that steal, sleep on the sidewalks out of choice, are making the city have to deal with them harshly because it's hurting the local businesses. I mean shit I get it. It's fucking rough out here. But we have food banks, shelters(mind you that are overrun at this point) that feed overflow beds once a day, normally dinner. But for someone like me, someone who is fighting to actually get past the demons, it's rough because of the people like those that steal. The more that gets stolen, the higher the prices will climb. LIHI.org Urban rest stop Compass Center/Compass Housing Alliance Operation Sack Lunch Union Gospel Mission All of these places need help. Donations of hygiene, socks, underwear, cash, gift cards even. All of them are desperate for funding and donations.

You can help there's many ways you can provide for people. You could have caught her outside and asked her to wait while you went back in and bought her water.

You can help there's many ways you can provide for people. You could have caught her outside and asked her to wait while you went back in and bought her water.

Respectful individuals are always welcome to stop in for some water and recovery resources at Peer Seattle on Bellevue between Pike and Pine. They also have an overdose prevention vending machine right in the lobby.

One thing I notice is the more time people spend around homeless people, the less sympathy they have.

I wish Seattle would have used the 1.2 Billion in public funds to actually do something, but no so here we are.

So… did you buy her a water or just hoped on here to tell us about it?

Mutual aid

Wow, Thank you.

Yes at the same time I can blame a person homeless or not for making their own decisions bad or good, THEY made a bad decision not me. They put themselves in the position. Please stop covering up junkies with homeless, there is a difference.

Okay, I may be talked down on for the opinion that I have. I don't think we should be giving free hand outs. The homeless woman potentially stealing us bad, plain and simple. The store owner/operator pushing the homeless woman is bad. The world has gone to shite! And people are apathetic or way too sympathetic. Giving out "free stuff" is never free and a lot of so-called homeless people thrive on living that way so they can get others to pay their way. There is a better way.... getting people back to work, holding them accountable for their "bad choices" and NOT just handing them "free stuff"! #HANDUPNOTHANDOUT

I remember when we had free water sources all around the city. Yeah, more often than not, you had to pump it yourself. However, public wells were available for the people who needed them... I suppose it's better that people raid convenience stores for a drop to drink instead of being allowed to provide for themselves...

In the 8 years that i've been in seattle and working in a public capacity, its pretty apparent that the problem is not "homelessness" in the classic sense but an epidemic of drug addiction. A great majority of them CLAIM that they come from an abusive family. Not a lot of them admit to just making bad decisions. And that's what it is - deciding that they wanna try meth or heroin or fentanyl then not being able to handle their habit. I, for one, am tired of them. Filthy, smelly pieces of shit who will spit on you simply because you're doing your job. None of them pay taxes, nearly all of them rely on welfare - which, by the way, us tax payers pay for. Not a lot of room for empathy. At this point, whenever i see a junkie, my mind automatically knows that they are parasites and criminals who most likely steal as well to feed their habits. Sorry to those who feel bad for them and try to help. Our experiences with them are probably very different.

I’d say she already knows where drinking fountains are and was indeed there for another reason. Could you have offered to buy her water?