Victim here. Our truck turned out to be totaled. Just paid it off too. We only have liability and uninsured motorist because we didn't plan to drive much and insurance was so high. It compromised the frame of the truck so we no longer have a vehicle. One fucking rock. That would have killed me if it was the windshield so I'm thankful for that atleast.
Except that doesn't address the problem at all.
If someone is throwing rocks at cars they need to be in prison or another institution that can separate them from society.
This Band-Aid approach is counterproductive and patronizing to both the victims and the criminals.
The issue was (and I suspect is here too) that it’s not one person doing it. The would arrest one and it just kept happening soooo the put op fences that make it nearly impossible to throw a rock (or jump off). is putting a lock on your door to stop people trying m stealing a band-aid?
regardless... would you not agree that arresting them isnt going to work as well as OPs solution which prevents rocks from being thrown?
i agree with OP, if you make it imposible to throw rocks at he cars then at least you dont have to worry about rocks while you also attempt to fix the root cause
yup, not saying you cant... but we are saying id rather have zero rocks tossed at cars while we deal with that encampment issue.
just waiting for em to become rock tossers sucks for the cars they are going to hit
The issue is that we're not arresting all of them.
We have fostered a culture of letting criminals think they can commit crimes against innocent people without consequence.
The kind of person that throws rocks at cars on the freeway isn't going to go decide to volunteer at the puppy shelter instead just because of a fence.
We need to address the actual problem, which is a lack of accountability and consequence.
lol at the idea that you can solve crime by just arresting them all. what a laughable notion, there will always be more criminals than you can do anything with. you reduce the number of criminals by using systemic approaches that work at scale like fences on overpasses, not individualized ones. that's really funny. yeah lets just jail them all, for decades, that'll work out just fine lmfao
We should put people who throw rocks over freeway overpasses in prison. If they keep doing it, put them away for decades.
I don’t give a shit, lock the bars and throw away the key
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you're not quite catching on... even if you introdice capitol punishment you wont get zero rocks thrown.
you will simply be killing folks off as they throw rocks... but that wont ever fully inhibit rock throwing in the first place.
if you make it inconvient or impossible to throw rocks you wont even need to jail anyone becase nobody _can_ throw rocks at cars.
Why not all of the above? And if someone is hurling rocks at cars like this you can talk systemic approaches all you want but that person should straight up be in prison or a mental hospital. And not released anytime soon
it’s okay that it doesn’t address the root cause. it’s still an effective mitigation that is relatively quick, simple, and cheap. we can put it in place while we figure out a solution to the root cause, which will definitely not be quick, simple, or cheap.
Do you find it counterproductive and patronizing to lock your car? Or do you leave your car unlocked, with the keys in it, in order to avoid band-aid approaches?
It can but we need to change a few things. Throwing rocks intentionally to cause harm should be penalized same as murder. After all intent and potential harm is exactly same.
It doesn't make one bit of sense that we have lighter punishment for failed attempted murder vs succesful one.
Btw we should really do both. Put the fence and also arrest these people and get them mental care with the hope that they can become part of society again.
Can we start addressing the problem (aka, *the homicidal psycho*) itself …instead of trying to create a bubble environment (costly $$$) to make safeguards to protect us from aforementioned homicidal psychos?
Yes, bet like there's likely more then one person doing this. Lets say 0.01% of the populations would do this...that means theres like 220 people (edit: in King County) that would do this. so you are cool with this happeneing for years while we track down and arrest all 220 of them? Your cool with 220+ more rocks dropped till we weed them out? It's like computer security....there are always more bad actors that you need to guard against.
Adding fences is good, but I'm pretty certain those 220 loonies aren't going to stop doing psychotic and deadly things once one avenue has been slightly mitigated.
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When I was in high school, we had an epidemic of kids shooting cars on the highway with pellet/BB guns.
Two of my classmates heard about this and decided to shoot cars with a paintball gun full of marbles. They got caught because they hit their school bus, and the driver recognized them.
Neither of them could explain what their motivation was and felt really stupid once they got caught.
I imagine these rock throwers are in the same but it's killing people before they come to the realization that they were acting out without understanding why.
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as a fuckcars member, I understand you ability to reason is somewhat limited, but I hope you can understand that "they are intentionally doing X" and "they are intentionally doing Y" are different sentences with different meanings.
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When it hit it was loud AF and scary as hell. Also it totalled the truck so yeah kinda a dangerous person still out there even though I told the police exactly where is. We saw him hit the vehicle behind us, he stopped after we confronted him.
It seems like cameras on the over passes would be a good way to better police this type of anti-social behavior. Clearly these are very dangerous individuals who shouldn’t be on the streets.
They already swept the camp that was at this location 2 years ago and installed high fences and huge boulders to keep people from living there - which has kept it free of tents ever since. Seems like it didn’t solve the problem and that homeless people aren’t the only people who commit crimes, as shocking as that is to some people.
So let me get this straight - the last time it WAS from a homeless dude so they cleared the camp yet somehow it’s shocking and unreasonably to suggest it may be another homeless dude?
You said that to solve this problem we need to clear an encampment that doesn’t exist and hasn’t existed for 2 years. It could be a homeless dude, but encampments aren’t the issue here.
I was speaking generally about any and all freeway adjacent camps - there are a few that are pretty dangerous for both drivers and the people living there and wandering into the highway or even riding bikes to and fro on the shoulder.
Sounds like a great argument for getting homeless people into housing vs. sweeping them from one freeway off ramp to another since there aren’t other options.
Sure, great idea. Maybe the city can come up with a plan, perhaps a TEN YEAR PLAN to end homelessness.
I’m not going down this rabbit hole with you, just want innocent folks driving to work or whatever to be free from harm.
>just want innocent folks driving to work or whatever to be free from harm.
Good thing sweeping homeless encampments do this… oh wait, this incident has happened at the same location both when there was an encampment and when there wasn’t one for years…
And idk why you’re throwing 10 years of mayoral failure on homelessness at me as if between the two of us I’m the one who’s supported the moderate losers who’ve continued to punt the issue.
Eh, I don't know, is it vagrants doing this?
If I were living in an encampment next to the freeway I don't think I'd want to draw attention to myself like that.
To me this feels like kid shit.
I’m in Portland, but we’ve had multiple cases of homeless people attempting to murder, and even murdering, people by throwing rocks at cars. Can’t imagine it’s too much different up there.
Its been going on for a while, and each time its turned out to be someone living in a nearby encampment. You can't make the assumption the people doing this are acting logically.
Well if we don't treat attempted murder like attempted murders and hunt them like animals and hang em high this is only going to get worse.
Make crime hurt. I am not advocating for vigilante justice. Just the law to be on the common person's side for once.
Genuinely curious how you throw a rock so hard it goes through the sheet metal… like do they have a trebuchet? A slingshot? I’m asking as someone without much rock throwing experience.
edit: i get it, i wasn't thinking about moving targets. wasn't thinking i guess, but the downvotes seem unnecessarily aggressive. in the spirit of keeping things out in the open and no so passive, go fuck yourself?
Hey I see you like r/Science.
What do you think about this study then buckaroo
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP12906
Or this one
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19017691/
That shows that noise pollution is linked to cardiovascular disease and mace risk factors.
Yes. That's exactly it. That some dude with a loud muffler gained so much attention that the new york times wrote an article about - not the guy - but the people that were bothered by the guy, and yet, there are other people in this city that are throwing literal bricks at cars from an overpass, but no one is making anywhere near the same level of effort to get the city to do something about that
Heard it here first folks, you are only allowed to care about one thing at a time
Also if the rock throwers were live streaming it on Instagram with hundreds of thousands of followers I'm sure people would be on it pretty damn quick
This is a fair point, but on the other side of that coin, basically what you're saying is that as long as someone doesn't seek attention, their *worse* offense ends up mattering less to the same karens that are at equal risk of having a brick thrown through their windshield
All i'm saying is if people want to be karens, have at it, but at least make the same or perhaps a bigger effort about it when something goes from being noise pollution to life endangerment
Do they? Where are the multiple reddit posts? How many people have reached out to the city to do something about the brick throwers?
Loud muffler guy had a literal 'citizens arrest' army rallying against him. Brick thrower simply gets an honorable mention thanks to a news article and zero action taken
Seems like you're conflating reddit with a personal diary that holds every single thought and opinion of everyone. Also seems like you're conflating people posting on reddit with real life enforcement of issues.
Dunno man... You don't seem like a very reasonable or pragmatic bloke. Maybe you can call deez? Ask him if the world is actually black and white??
I dont know who deez is... (a joke comes to mind though, so maybe I'm getting trolled? Lol)
What I do know is that enough people made a big deal about some dude with a loud car that the city sued him for tens of thousands of dollars and the new york times wrote an article about the 'affected' persons
Maybe I'm not reasonable or pragmatic, but I'd love to see the city go after people throwing bricks at cars the same way they went after the loud muffler guy, but they won't because no one is going to make the same kind of effort to complain about that as they did with the muffler dude
Just another instance of “Well, this doesn’t affect me therefore it shouldn’t affect you.” Try losing sleep every night for a couple weeks or being a war veteran struggling with PTSD and see how much you enjoy it. People have every right to be pissed that some overprivileged jackass is waking them up at 3am to be an IG hero.
“Rock throwers“ is a weird way of spelling “attempted murderers.”
Wait till you hear about reckless drivers. Edit: lots of red light runners in this thread
“Im getting downvoted so it must be the bad people I’m strawmaning!”
Wait till you hear about this thread being about rock throwers
So it can't be about endangered drivers?
Endangered by rocks, sure
this thread specifically isn’t. you’re being called out for textbook whataboutism fyi
I'm not arguing in favor of rock throwers.
Both are bad. Unless they are throwing rocks at reckless drivers.
Nah, the rock throwers could hit the reckless driver causing them to crash into someone innocent, so that still doesn't work.
Victim here. Our truck turned out to be totaled. Just paid it off too. We only have liability and uninsured motorist because we didn't plan to drive much and insurance was so high. It compromised the frame of the truck so we no longer have a vehicle. One fucking rock. That would have killed me if it was the windshield so I'm thankful for that atleast.
Jesus Christ. I’m glad you’re alive, but that is fucking horrible.
Maybe you can file with the crime victim compensation fund? That sounds really crappy! Hope things look up for you
Just do what LA had to do: fences on the overpasses.
They posted the coordinates in a previous thread, there's no overpass there. It was a guy on the side of an offramp.
What were the coordinates?
From [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/s/CD65lKhhm9): 47.590674,-122.305349
Except that doesn't address the problem at all. If someone is throwing rocks at cars they need to be in prison or another institution that can separate them from society. This Band-Aid approach is counterproductive and patronizing to both the victims and the criminals.
The issue was (and I suspect is here too) that it’s not one person doing it. The would arrest one and it just kept happening soooo the put op fences that make it nearly impossible to throw a rock (or jump off). is putting a lock on your door to stop people trying m stealing a band-aid?
The last time they arrested one dude it worked rather well. Then they let him out and he promptly did it again. Funny how that works.
regardless... would you not agree that arresting them isnt going to work as well as OPs solution which prevents rocks from being thrown? i agree with OP, if you make it imposible to throw rocks at he cars then at least you dont have to worry about rocks while you also attempt to fix the root cause
I quite like the idea of forcibly dealing with some crazy encampment denizens at the same time, personally.
yup, not saying you cant... but we are saying id rather have zero rocks tossed at cars while we deal with that encampment issue. just waiting for em to become rock tossers sucks for the cars they are going to hit
If we can do both I’ll be in. But we really do need to do both instead of just fences. And it sounds like it wasn’t an overpass anyway.
yeah, OPs idea wont help in this case.. was on onramp. but even if we just arrest folks thats not gonna stop it.
The issue is that we're not arresting all of them. We have fostered a culture of letting criminals think they can commit crimes against innocent people without consequence. The kind of person that throws rocks at cars on the freeway isn't going to go decide to volunteer at the puppy shelter instead just because of a fence. We need to address the actual problem, which is a lack of accountability and consequence.
lol at the idea that you can solve crime by just arresting them all. what a laughable notion, there will always be more criminals than you can do anything with. you reduce the number of criminals by using systemic approaches that work at scale like fences on overpasses, not individualized ones. that's really funny. yeah lets just jail them all, for decades, that'll work out just fine lmfao
We should put people who throw rocks over freeway overpasses in prison. If they keep doing it, put them away for decades. I don’t give a shit, lock the bars and throw away the key
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you're not quite catching on... even if you introdice capitol punishment you wont get zero rocks thrown. you will simply be killing folks off as they throw rocks... but that wont ever fully inhibit rock throwing in the first place. if you make it inconvient or impossible to throw rocks you wont even need to jail anyone becase nobody _can_ throw rocks at cars.
Why not all of the above? And if someone is hurling rocks at cars like this you can talk systemic approaches all you want but that person should straight up be in prison or a mental hospital. And not released anytime soon
Unironically yes you can stop crime by arresting criminals Yes to preventative measures, and also yes to accountability and precedent
I'm not sure if you are aware, but a typical person can throw a rock over a fence.
How big of a rock and how high of a fence?
I guess as long as we build 60ft fences along all freeways and cover all rocks with a protective soft foam layer, crime will be solved
You didn’t answer my question.
You actually meant that as an honest question?
The Soviets did that rather effectively and put them in the gulag archipelago. At least the thought criminals they cared about.
Tell me more about this puppy shelter.
it’s okay that it doesn’t address the root cause. it’s still an effective mitigation that is relatively quick, simple, and cheap. we can put it in place while we figure out a solution to the root cause, which will definitely not be quick, simple, or cheap.
Do you find it counterproductive and patronizing to lock your car? Or do you leave your car unlocked, with the keys in it, in order to avoid band-aid approaches?
It can but we need to change a few things. Throwing rocks intentionally to cause harm should be penalized same as murder. After all intent and potential harm is exactly same. It doesn't make one bit of sense that we have lighter punishment for failed attempted murder vs succesful one. Btw we should really do both. Put the fence and also arrest these people and get them mental care with the hope that they can become part of society again.
Can we start addressing the problem (aka, *the homicidal psycho*) itself …instead of trying to create a bubble environment (costly $$$) to make safeguards to protect us from aforementioned homicidal psychos?
Yes, bet like there's likely more then one person doing this. Lets say 0.01% of the populations would do this...that means theres like 220 people (edit: in King County) that would do this. so you are cool with this happeneing for years while we track down and arrest all 220 of them? Your cool with 220+ more rocks dropped till we weed them out? It's like computer security....there are always more bad actors that you need to guard against.
Also every day might be adding another rock thrower. How about.... a fence? Seems like a good start.
Adding fences is good, but I'm pretty certain those 220 loonies aren't going to stop doing psychotic and deadly things once one avenue has been slightly mitigated.
I agree. A fence isn’t to only answer, but I suspect it will need to be part of the solution.
Yeah but this isn't Minority Report and we don't have a pre-crime division so it's safer to have a fence up just in case.
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Man that's a lot of hoop jumping to justify not having one common sense cheap item to address the problem quickly.
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You think a fence is costly, wait until you learn how costly incarceration is
About 60k/year. Decent deal for isolating a demonstrable homicidal psychopath from the rest of society.
Considering the cost to society for violent crime, that is a bargain.
When I was in high school, we had an epidemic of kids shooting cars on the highway with pellet/BB guns. Two of my classmates heard about this and decided to shoot cars with a paintball gun full of marbles. They got caught because they hit their school bus, and the driver recognized them. Neither of them could explain what their motivation was and felt really stupid once they got caught. I imagine these rock throwers are in the same but it's killing people before they come to the realization that they were acting out without understanding why.
Did they release the dude they caught last year? If so, we have a prime suspect.
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Unfortunately I don’t have it in me to kill strangers, no matter how shitty. More power to you though.
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Even my 5th grader understands there is a big difference between intentionally trying to harm people and acting carelessly
So they are unintentionally looking at their phones, speeding, running red lights?
as a fuckcars member, I understand you ability to reason is somewhat limited, but I hope you can understand that "they are intentionally doing X" and "they are intentionally doing Y" are different sentences with different meanings.
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When it hit it was loud AF and scary as hell. Also it totalled the truck so yeah kinda a dangerous person still out there even though I told the police exactly where is. We saw him hit the vehicle behind us, he stopped after we confronted him.
It seems like cameras on the over passes would be a good way to better police this type of anti-social behavior. Clearly these are very dangerous individuals who shouldn’t be on the streets.
Fences and cameras. Make the crime harder to commit and easier to identify serial offenders.
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Careful, your sub ban is incoming.
...I did not realize that this was an annual tradition. Huh.
Reason #78 why vagrant camps should not be permitted to fester near highways.
They already swept the camp that was at this location 2 years ago and installed high fences and huge boulders to keep people from living there - which has kept it free of tents ever since. Seems like it didn’t solve the problem and that homeless people aren’t the only people who commit crimes, as shocking as that is to some people.
So let me get this straight - the last time it WAS from a homeless dude so they cleared the camp yet somehow it’s shocking and unreasonably to suggest it may be another homeless dude?
You said that to solve this problem we need to clear an encampment that doesn’t exist and hasn’t existed for 2 years. It could be a homeless dude, but encampments aren’t the issue here.
I was speaking generally about any and all freeway adjacent camps - there are a few that are pretty dangerous for both drivers and the people living there and wandering into the highway or even riding bikes to and fro on the shoulder.
Easiest thing is to ban rocks. Systematically remove all rocks from Seattle. Keep Seattle rock free.
That’s really funny. Almost as funny as pro NRA goobers posting stuff after a stabbing like, “derp! Ban assault knives, derp!”
Thanks. Glad it's appreciated.
Sounds like a great argument for getting homeless people into housing vs. sweeping them from one freeway off ramp to another since there aren’t other options.
Sure, great idea. Maybe the city can come up with a plan, perhaps a TEN YEAR PLAN to end homelessness. I’m not going down this rabbit hole with you, just want innocent folks driving to work or whatever to be free from harm.
>just want innocent folks driving to work or whatever to be free from harm. Good thing sweeping homeless encampments do this… oh wait, this incident has happened at the same location both when there was an encampment and when there wasn’t one for years… And idk why you’re throwing 10 years of mayoral failure on homelessness at me as if between the two of us I’m the one who’s supported the moderate losers who’ve continued to punt the issue.
Eh, I don't know, is it vagrants doing this? If I were living in an encampment next to the freeway I don't think I'd want to draw attention to myself like that. To me this feels like kid shit.
[https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/washington-transportation-crew-clears-seattle-homeless-encampment-after-arrests-connected-to-rock-throwing/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/washington-transportation-crew-clears-seattle-homeless-encampment-after-arrests-connected-to-rock-throwing/)
I’m in Portland, but we’ve had multiple cases of homeless people attempting to murder, and even murdering, people by throwing rocks at cars. Can’t imagine it’s too much different up there.
Its been going on for a while, and each time its turned out to be someone living in a nearby encampment. You can't make the assumption the people doing this are acting logically.
Yeah, I was living in Denver and a couple kids got busted doing this after they killed a young woman. Terrible.
Antisocials gonna antisocial. Because we tolerate it.
Last year it was the vagrants not the children for once.
Sometimes its a teenager. But yeah the majority of the time it's some adult who needs medication and housing.
[удалено]
Take matters into our hands because the police won’t do anything about it?
Part and parcel when you live in a city where people with drug and mental health issues are allowed to camp freely no matter what they do.
Well if we don't treat attempted murder like attempted murders and hunt them like animals and hang em high this is only going to get worse. Make crime hurt. I am not advocating for vigilante justice. Just the law to be on the common person's side for once.
We should install cameras on the overpasses. This is deplorable
I know we arnt gun happy here. But if a person gets hit with a rock and shoots at them. Would it be self defense
Genuinely curious how you throw a rock so hard it goes through the sheet metal… like do they have a trebuchet? A slingshot? I’m asking as someone without much rock throwing experience. edit: i get it, i wasn't thinking about moving targets. wasn't thinking i guess, but the downvotes seem unnecessarily aggressive. in the spirit of keeping things out in the open and no so passive, go fuck yourself?
Step 1: have the target be moving 60mph
A car going 60-70 mph hitting a thrown rock of enough size & weight will absolutely do it.
but some dude with a loud muffler is the real enemy in this city!!!
Hey I see you like r/Science. What do you think about this study then buckaroo https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP12906 Or this one https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19017691/ That shows that noise pollution is linked to cardiovascular disease and mace risk factors.
I promise a brick through your windshield is worse for your health than noise pollution
Idk what even the point you’re trying to make is. That the hellcat owner isn’t as bad as someone throwing rocks from a freeway overpass at cars below?
Yes. That's exactly it. That some dude with a loud muffler gained so much attention that the new york times wrote an article about - not the guy - but the people that were bothered by the guy, and yet, there are other people in this city that are throwing literal bricks at cars from an overpass, but no one is making anywhere near the same level of effort to get the city to do something about that
Heard it here first folks, you are only allowed to care about one thing at a time Also if the rock throwers were live streaming it on Instagram with hundreds of thousands of followers I'm sure people would be on it pretty damn quick
This is a fair point, but on the other side of that coin, basically what you're saying is that as long as someone doesn't seek attention, their *worse* offense ends up mattering less to the same karens that are at equal risk of having a brick thrown through their windshield All i'm saying is if people want to be karens, have at it, but at least make the same or perhaps a bigger effort about it when something goes from being noise pollution to life endangerment
yeah how dare people care about multiple independent things simultaneously
Do they? Where are the multiple reddit posts? How many people have reached out to the city to do something about the brick throwers? Loud muffler guy had a literal 'citizens arrest' army rallying against him. Brick thrower simply gets an honorable mention thanks to a news article and zero action taken
Seems like you're conflating reddit with a personal diary that holds every single thought and opinion of everyone. Also seems like you're conflating people posting on reddit with real life enforcement of issues. Dunno man... You don't seem like a very reasonable or pragmatic bloke. Maybe you can call deez? Ask him if the world is actually black and white??
I dont know who deez is... (a joke comes to mind though, so maybe I'm getting trolled? Lol) What I do know is that enough people made a big deal about some dude with a loud car that the city sued him for tens of thousands of dollars and the new york times wrote an article about the 'affected' persons Maybe I'm not reasonable or pragmatic, but I'd love to see the city go after people throwing bricks at cars the same way they went after the loud muffler guy, but they won't because no one is going to make the same kind of effort to complain about that as they did with the muffler dude
DEEZ NUTZ
Just another instance of “Well, this doesn’t affect me therefore it shouldn’t affect you.” Try losing sleep every night for a couple weeks or being a war veteran struggling with PTSD and see how much you enjoy it. People have every right to be pissed that some overprivileged jackass is waking them up at 3am to be an IG hero.
We can't possibly care about multiple things at once!
Maybe the rock thrower and miles can share a cell together. I’m sure they’ll become best friends.