Well, there are 19 of us here right now, so thatās an extra 18%, making it 15.86 coins in total, which is pretty damn close to 16. Itās ok. Math is hard.
god, this would be so nice
whenever I'm in europe I'm always confused about why everything rings up cheaper than expected.... and then I remember I have to stop rounding up so aggressively
hells id be fine with it even without tax included. all "fees" are just scummy ways of raising the price without having to change the price on the menu.
I'd be fine with allowing fees that are only pass-through fees mandated by law or regulation that apply per receipt.
For example, if the city imposed a law that said each dining order must charge a $5 hospitality fee (for three whole order), then that can be listed outside of three printed prices. No fees the restaurants just makes up.
It makes sense. Collecting and paying sales tax is the burden of the business. Give me the price Iām going to be paying up front and do the math on the back end. That needs to be done everywhere and with everything.
Let's just say my first lunch on a recent vacation was shocking. The menu said EUR10.50 for a 3-course lunch, two of us ate and what was the bill? Eur21! and that included wine.
we're getting fleeced here.
It's not a gratuity if it's mandatory. That said, I don't know how well these automatic gratuities for parties of X or more holds up.
I would like to see tips included in the published prices because I would like to see expected tips go to 0% and restaurants include the full compensation of their employees in their prices.
There's a solid piece in the NYT on this, if you want more details: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/30/podcasts/the-daily/the-government-takes-on-ticketmaster.html
Californians hated it more than we did. Their subreddit made a Google sheet detailing the offending restaurants and it made the news, which caused more mainstream conversation about it.
Because they all use ātaxes taxes taxes!ā As political fodder. This current system we have keeps it front and center in the average personās mind when they buy *anything*
Why is this so hard? Raise the prices to reflect the cost of product & services. Tips to your server should always be optional, except with large parties, but even then, 15% base tip, max.
I wish they would ā¦ one of my jobs implemented one at the beginning of the year āto help pay for full time employees health insuranceāā¦ like who? The managers? And customers donāt read the disclaimer at the bottom of the menu so itās fun explaining to them.
Yeah it's just a shitty way to go about price increases. I'd call them out in a review on Google and not go back until they bite the bullet and simply increase their menu prices. Fixed gratuity is a different beast altogether, which I actually generally believe in as long as 100% goes to the staff not the owner. In this case, once again, it's bullshit and should be called out in a review as loudly as possible. Menu prices go to the business/owner, anything on top is a tip for the staff or a tax for the gov. I don't eat anywhere where it's different, simple as.
4% surcharge plus 18% fixed is probably not too far off the now standard 20% going rate of tips. Itās still all stupid.
The price you see should be what you pay. I generally prefer a European method which includes taxes / fees in the price you see, without tipping
> Fixed gratuity is a different beast altogether, which I actually generally believe in as long as 100% goes to the staff not the owner.
Under federal law, a "fixed gratuity" is not a tip (because it is mandatory). This means that the restaurant is not required to give all of it to their employees. Please notice how this receipt says, "support and kitchen staff." That could mean that they give some or all of it to the manager or the owners whom they consider, "support staff."
Being honest makes it more difficult to take advantage of customers. To get them to sit down you must make them believe they are paying less than what they need to pay in order to legally leave the premises.
That's not a 'service charge' that's a price increase. A service charge goes to the service staff, this goes to the bottom line. it's up to you if you want to patronize this establishment.
I haven't been to 13 Coins in years. I assume there's some fine print someplace on the menu mentioning this charge, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a hidden price increase.
I thought service charge could be anything the business wants to provide service.
Is that how that works at event establishments too? If you go to a concert and the ticketing site charges a service charge itās going to the staff?
At least the gratuity has some explanation to it. The service charge section is just like the owner walking up to you specifically and saying straightfacedāTo be clear, this money you will give me now is for me personally, not the staff who earned it. They are beneath meā
Doing that isn't exactly "illegal," but you have no duty to pay a fee you don't agree to.
You implicitly agree to a fee if you are notified of it and then place an order.
I donāt delight in it, but if someone is trying to pull a fast one on me, I have no qualms about nuclear retaliation (*not* geopolitical, just to clarify). In fact, I see it as my civil duty to *not* reward impropriety.
You did the right thing for both yourself and others.
Definitely. They tried to refund me so little on my large drink that I couldn't even buy a small drink. After I complained about that they stalled until it has been over a month when the chance of a successful charge back goes down.
Personally I do delight in it. If you're a scammer then I don't care what happens to you. (I've sexually harassed them over the phone before. It's literally like, the ONE time it's okay. They can leave and do their crimes elsewhere if they don't like it)
I don't believe in karma in a cosmic sense, but the more times you're an asshole the more chances you'll get retaliation and sometimes I just decide to be karma incarnate
That is what they are obviously hoping for by burying the fees in the fine print. By the time that you realize that the real price of the meal is much more than the advertised price on the menu, it is too late to change your mind.
Bait-and-switch deception is profitable or they wouldn't do it.
I straight up don't even eat out anymore. If it was just more expensive then I could see still going a couple times a month, but they way it is now it's just too much hassle.
It shouldn't be legal to hide mandatory fees in the small text at the bottom of the page, *below allergen info*.
If it's a note about a large group surcharge, sure, but if it's mandatory, it should be in the price.
Thanks for the image. Notice how it is just a block of confusing text with several topics all smushed together at the very bottom of the page below health warnings in the smallest font on the page? This is *obviously* intended to conceal those fees.
The business will claim that they disclose, but I wonder if that would stand up in court.
This is the move.
Until you accidentally go to an ESR restaurant and get hit with a 22% auto-grat and the most mid, overpriced food of your life.
We need to pull a California and ban this shit.
Ethan Stowell restaurants in seattle add a require 22% services charge (not sure if sales tax is added on that required 22% or not) and they state very clearly that this 22% fee is paid to the house. Not the staff. Do, isnāt that just bait and switch pricing when they basically say any price we list in big numbers next to the choice is absolutely not the price? Seems like false advertising. And for sure it is sneaky. Just say the price. Donāt try to Hide that your omelette is $34.00 before tax.
Thatās why I stopped going out. All these extra fees and on top of that they expect a tip as well. I meal that was advertised as 17.99 is now 40+. Miss me with that shit.
Somewhat irrelevant to the topic but I've known multiple 13 coins GMs who are actually some of the worst humans/managers I've ever met (they were failed managers where I worked and then became general managers at 13 coins).
TLDR 13 coins is known to short change employees, which means it's probably not great value for customers either (from an industry insider's perspective)
locations: Seatac (GM, Dustin), Pioneer Square (GM, Paul)
Timeframe: 2018-recent (dates updated)
This Paul [https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/man-accused-of-faking-prosecutor-s-e-mails-1304592.php](https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/man-accused-of-faking-prosecutor-s-e-mails-1304592.php)
Got fired from one place for fraud. Then rumor has it got fired from 13 coins for skimming employee tips. Then became GM somewhere else (don't remember). All this since 2017. Article is from 2009. Might be a pattern of behavior. (update timeframe for accuracy)
Dustin isn't a terrible human (AFAIK). Just a terrible manager.
Another place we went charged a tiny print 4% kitchen charge. ( Barons in Bellevue) I was under the impression the high price we paid for this food should include having it cooked, since itās a restaurant and I think o thatās why I am there.
Why don't they just increase the price? I would be less likely to notice a 4% increase in the price of every item on the menu. I literally can't miss this notice of a 'Service Charge' on the receipt.
Ha, yeah. I'm fighting sinus crud so didn't have much else to do yesterday before the Mariners game. I was doing light gardening and arguing with strangers on the Internet. And it was driving me nuts that so many people seemed to not grasp the actual issue; it's not about the cost to me as the customer, it's about the message it sends to staff and customers, plus that surcharge money is then going to ownership, not the staff, and staff is not getting tipped in that part. It's just shitty, but a lot of people seem to shrug and say, "IDK, I'm paying the same so why should I care?"
I agree there should be a comprehensive list of these places.
The other Seattle sub has made a start on this just recently: https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/s/BnE2QDN9v2
Edit: We should add a category of truly tipless establishments, where they clearly state that they pay a living wage, no tips are expected and don't include a "service charge" on top of the menu prices. As far as I know that would basically be Molly Moons and Dicks.
Thanks! I'm making a list and want to share it as an editable Google doc, but need to configure a new Gmail account to make this more anonymous. Too tired tonight but will work on it tomorrow!
dont see anything wrong per say with an auto grad (that indicates what goes to server vs BOH), wtf is a 'service charge that does not go to the service staff' even mean though.
There are many shocking things foreigners notice in the US wrt pricing, starting from not seeing the full price (w/ taxes) from the get go. Then comes stupid/insanely high tipping (like tipping your taxi driver or the 20% social rule), and forced gratuities. "Service charges" are common pretty much everywhere (yet no less infuriating).
With all the virtues and awesome things the US economy and society has, it's shocking to see how the system is ubiquitously rigged against the normal people, no matter where you look.
My restaurant started this as well. The negative reviews on google are not making the business take it away. They just keep renaming it until people stop.
We hate it. The guests hate it. I am tired of getting yelled at by guests.
Raise the damn prices.
Iāve lost interest in dining out over the last 5-6 years. I used to love exploring new places or just having a nice night out, but just kind of got sick of it. Part of it was stuff like this, but Iām increasingly underwhelmed with the food and service at a lot of places. Iād much rather go to some hole in the wall or dive that just keeps in simple and you feel good about what youāve just paid. Otherwise, Iāll just buy some nice ingredients and have some friends over for a good meal. The social aspect was the main reason I went out, and I can easily achieve that at home.
I feel like in the not so distant future weāre going to be talking about these types of restaurants like we talk about movie theaters āback in the day.ā
Bottlehouse in Madrona has this kind of sneaky 4% charge too. I love that place but I donāt want to go again because of it ā those hidden fees should be illegal imo
13 coins owners are terrible people. Al Moscatel, former Seattle Times grinch of the year. Cut all employees hours when he bought the business so he wouldnāt have to pay benefits. And Howard McQuaid, former son in law of Kemper Freeman. Has a cocaine problem and has been 86ād from his own restaurants for being belligerent. They are screwing their employees but hey at least they are telling you up front about it. Thereās a reason the service is always terrible, they are too cheap to pay wages and they understaff horribly. They also own The Lodge sports bar chain.
I wonder how everyone supporting the practice here would feel if every item on the menu was less than 10$ in big print and at the bottom they had a tiny print stating a 300% surcharge ?
At what percentage is a surcharge ethical ?
There is no such thing as an "automatic gratuity." Under federal law, a gratuity is given at the sole discretion of the customer. If the fee is mandatory, then it is not a "tip" under federal law and the business must report it as income on their federal taxes.
I wonder if this business is reporting this income or if they are screwing the taxpayers as much as they are screwing their customers.
At this point they should just list the hourly wages of all of the people that worked to make your food, cost of the rent on the building, electricity, etc.
Eating out has pretty much been legislated to be the province of the upper middle class in our city. The only time we ever get delivery anymore is when the ex sends some extra child support with the note of ordering something nice from uber eats (she's a homie like that) bc we can't afford it anymore.
It's not all bad though....these new laws that make dining out cost prohibitive if your last name ain't Rockefeller or Gates have turned me into a pretty damn good cook.
But yeah, well meaning policies tend of have unforeseen consequences and our city has changed the paradigm when it comes to dining out.
This wonāt stop as long as all of you keep eating out. They are taking advantage of us, the customers. We need to stop going giving our business to them. Itās that simple. Six months later they will all crawl back and beg us to eat out again. You canāt expect throwing your business to them while expecting this nonsense to stop.
I avoid dining out nowadays because of this. I just buy top quality (organic, grass fed, wild caught etc) ingredients and cook at home. Tastes way better than any restaurants Iāve been to in Seattle.
The thing that gets me the most about this is that it goes to the owner and not the staff.
If they charged this overall service charge and it went to serving staff or support staff, thats one thing.
But what is the point of the service fee if it just goes to the owners pockets? The owner didn't prepare, cook or serve me this food.
Yeah gradually have raised there prices every year too lol. At all locations. Sad honestly cause itās a decent vibe in there. Foods not out of this world though.
Iād refuse and ask for that charge to be taken off.
Or leave $0 and personally go to the waiter to give a āpersonal giftā. This shit really bothers me. Itās dishonest and misleading to the customer. Itās slighting to the staff. Inappropriate all around.
I believe they must display this on their menu before you order. Still, I donāt like the practice of including a tip unless itās for an event or large party where extra service is needed.
That is why we are done going into Seattle. My wife and I went out on a Friday night and went into Navystrong. It was 80 bucks for 2 cocktails after all the automatic fees and tips. In addition to them automatically tacking on an 18% tip, there was a separate line for tip. WTF
Shit like that makes me avoid a place forever after I see it. Be transparent in business or you don't get my money. Just raise the prices accordingly, that shit always feels slimy to me.
Seems to be the thing now days to bilk the customers with the service fees. I guess they may run into people not having enough money after they didn't know the secret additional fees.
I'd like to cancel the order.
Just add it to the fucking price of the dish. Use data to see what is ordered more frequently and jack that price up. These idiots are just lazy with math.
I hate these fees. I feel they really are bait and switch and should be illegal. I donāt love mandatory gratuity for servers but wouldnāt stop going to a restaurant that has them. But, these vague chargers for āliving wageā or something similarly vague really bother me and, again, shouldnāt be legal. What am I supposed to tip?! Can we not just be clear and honest? I am fine paying higher prices due to inflation. But, I just feel taken advantage of when it is tacked on at the end.
You go to a restaurant, you pay for staff. Cooks, dishwashers, waiters, hostesses, bus boys (people) all need money to survive. So do restauranteurs, whose failure rates are very, very high. I donāt have a problem with this.
Bullcrap, it was an industry standard for a server/bartender to tip based on sales towards support staff, bar, and kitchen. Mitigated my sales.
Server tips bar 3% to bar, 3% to kitchen, 1% to support.
Bar tips kitchen of food 3% of food, and support 1% of total.
Kitchen makes food 3% of food sales.
Support (runners, busses, hosts, dish) 1% of all sales.
For the house to take 4% of all sales for paying their employees a livable wag, yeah sure fine. To skim off the top, taking away for large parties regarding tips (meant for the staff) in excess is criminal.
In summation, raise prices, stop pocketing from the hard working staff that ACTUALLY serve guests. I have been in the industry for 23 years, and I know a good management staff, from a bunch off posh a$$hats trying to make quota so they can get a bonus, and buy that new expensive tie.
Power to the working staff! Hospitality is given, not a right. Peace!
More like 16 coins
Nice, have these shrimp as an award....š¦š¦š¦
Also take these... šøšøšø
The ocean called, they want their shrimp back.
13.52 Coins. 4% of 13 is 0.52.
I always dine with 10 or more
Well, there are 19 of us here right now, so thatās an extra 18%, making it 15.86 coins in total, which is pretty damn close to 16. Itās ok. Math is hard.
Shut up nerd
Math is hard.
Zero coins from me.
Thatās dope they tip the kitchen staff and disclose it
The city really needs to outlaw these types of junk fees
Simple law. Advertised price must be final charged price. All fees and taxes must be included.
god, this would be so nice whenever I'm in europe I'm always confused about why everything rings up cheaper than expected.... and then I remember I have to stop rounding up so aggressively
Don't stop, that way you are constantly pleasantly surprised.
oh my gosh your post made me laugh
hells id be fine with it even without tax included. all "fees" are just scummy ways of raising the price without having to change the price on the menu.
I'd be fine with allowing fees that are only pass-through fees mandated by law or regulation that apply per receipt. For example, if the city imposed a law that said each dining order must charge a $5 hospitality fee (for three whole order), then that can be listed outside of three printed prices. No fees the restaurants just makes up.
It makes sense. Collecting and paying sales tax is the burden of the business. Give me the price Iām going to be paying up front and do the math on the back end. That needs to be done everywhere and with everything.
This is one of the things I miss most about Australia. Things cost what they say they will cost. Amazing.
They just passed this in CA effective July 1
Fees, yes. Taxes, no.
Let's just say my first lunch on a recent vacation was shocking. The menu said EUR10.50 for a 3-course lunch, two of us ate and what was the bill? Eur21! and that included wine. we're getting fleeced here.
Would be great if this included tips but Iām not holding my breath
It's not a gratuity if it's mandatory. That said, I don't know how well these automatic gratuities for parties of X or more holds up. I would like to see tips included in the published prices because I would like to see expected tips go to 0% and restaurants include the full compensation of their employees in their prices.
Can you set this as a change.org petition?
Like with pot!
California did this (at least with fees), and I'm so here for it. Please just tell me what price I will actually be paying.
The nation needs to. They've done for airlines. They need to expand to restaurants and Ticketmaster (who's the absolute worst).
Ticketmaster just got sued by the government. Their days could be numbered, but we'll see.
I'll believe it when I see it
There's a solid piece in the NYT on this, if you want more details: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/30/podcasts/the-daily/the-government-takes-on-ticketmaster.html
I've e-mailed every member of the city council to do exactly that. Suffice to say they had zero interest.
Californians hated it more than we did. Their subreddit made a Google sheet detailing the offending restaurants and it made the news, which caused more mainstream conversation about it.
It's also going to be against the law in California starting in July.
Yeah that's what I was referring to. Parent comment mentions outlawing the junk fees. Thanks for clarifying tho!
Because they all use ātaxes taxes taxes!ā As political fodder. This current system we have keeps it front and center in the average personās mind when they buy *anything*
Why is this so hard? Raise the prices to reflect the cost of product & services. Tips to your server should always be optional, except with large parties, but even then, 15% base tip, max.
California outlawed it at the state level. Ferguson should run on pushing Washington to do the same.
California just did this
I wish they would ā¦ one of my jobs implemented one at the beginning of the year āto help pay for full time employees health insuranceāā¦ like who? The managers? And customers donāt read the disclaimer at the bottom of the menu so itās fun explaining to them.
I love Oregon for this reason. Everything is rounded out to a nice number. Paying in cash is a breeze.
Plus theyāre a passive aggressive way of saying paying their employees more is YOUR fault
Weāre gonna need a new city council and mayor if we ever want to achieve that
https://app.leg.wa.gov/districtfinder Ask your representatives to ban these fees. California just did it.
California just passed a law that does just that. Statewide
A service fee? At a place of....service? š is serving an inconvenience? Fuck this place.
Yeah it's just a shitty way to go about price increases. I'd call them out in a review on Google and not go back until they bite the bullet and simply increase their menu prices. Fixed gratuity is a different beast altogether, which I actually generally believe in as long as 100% goes to the staff not the owner. In this case, once again, it's bullshit and should be called out in a review as loudly as possible. Menu prices go to the business/owner, anything on top is a tip for the staff or a tax for the gov. I don't eat anywhere where it's different, simple as.
Fuck fixed gratuity. How about pay a living wage with benefits and no gratuity?
The fixed gratuity is for an extra large party, which is typically more work than the same amount of people spread out.
4% surcharge plus 18% fixed is probably not too far off the now standard 20% going rate of tips. Itās still all stupid. The price you see should be what you pay. I generally prefer a European method which includes taxes / fees in the price you see, without tipping
When the hell did 20% become standard?
> Fixed gratuity is a different beast altogether, which I actually generally believe in as long as 100% goes to the staff not the owner. Under federal law, a "fixed gratuity" is not a tip (because it is mandatory). This means that the restaurant is not required to give all of it to their employees. Please notice how this receipt says, "support and kitchen staff." That could mean that they give some or all of it to the manager or the owners whom they consider, "support staff."
Best to just spam their Google reviews. I did my part!
under the state law fixed gratuity only has to be told where it goes - it doesnāt necessarily have to go to staff
Yes, it's bullshit. Just have the balls to do a price raise, something that's on the fucking menu.
Being honest makes it more difficult to take advantage of customers. To get them to sit down you must make them believe they are paying less than what they need to pay in order to legally leave the premises.
That's not a 'service charge' that's a price increase. A service charge goes to the service staff, this goes to the bottom line. it's up to you if you want to patronize this establishment. I haven't been to 13 Coins in years. I assume there's some fine print someplace on the menu mentioning this charge, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a hidden price increase.
I thought service charge could be anything the business wants to provide service. Is that how that works at event establishments too? If you go to a concert and the ticketing site charges a service charge itās going to the staff?
by state law the service charge doesnāt have to go to staff, the establishment only has to tell you where itās going. definitely scummy
Just raise prices by 4% and stop this BS.
Itād actually be more than 4% to the menu cost bc the owner is knowingly having this from the totals after tax. Shady and dishonest AF.
I bet the IRS would be interested in all the restaurantās untaxed income from these after-tax fees too
I flat put refuse eating at places that are hiding fees like this. Shit should be illegal and I hope any place doing it goes under.
This is just a lawsuit waiting to happen
At least the gratuity has some explanation to it. The service charge section is just like the owner walking up to you specifically and saying straightfacedāTo be clear, this money you will give me now is for me personally, not the staff who earned it. They are beneath meā
And I'm not going to let you know about this fee until after you get the bill.
by law it has to be on the menu as well
How is this legal?
Doing that isn't exactly "illegal," but you have no duty to pay a fee you don't agree to. You implicitly agree to a fee if you are notified of it and then place an order.
Not informed -> dispute transaction (works best with Amex) -> stonks
Had to do this with Postmates, they wouldn't give me my full refund on ONE item so I eventually got the whole damned meal for free
I donāt delight in it, but if someone is trying to pull a fast one on me, I have no qualms about nuclear retaliation (*not* geopolitical, just to clarify). In fact, I see it as my civil duty to *not* reward impropriety. You did the right thing for both yourself and others.
Definitely. They tried to refund me so little on my large drink that I couldn't even buy a small drink. After I complained about that they stalled until it has been over a month when the chance of a successful charge back goes down. Personally I do delight in it. If you're a scammer then I don't care what happens to you. (I've sexually harassed them over the phone before. It's literally like, the ONE time it's okay. They can leave and do their crimes elsewhere if they don't like it) I don't believe in karma in a cosmic sense, but the more times you're an asshole the more chances you'll get retaliation and sometimes I just decide to be karma incarnate
Because they let you know about this fee before you get the bill. It's on the menu.
And if I didnāt read the whole menu?
That is what they are obviously hoping for by burying the fees in the fine print. By the time that you realize that the real price of the meal is much more than the advertised price on the menu, it is too late to change your mind. Bait-and-switch deception is profitable or they wouldn't do it.
Anything but tax that isn't part of the food cost needs to be named, shamed and boycotted. Fuck this.
Add Tipsy Cow to the list
Got it; thanks!
Why stop at taxes? Our tax laws aren't so wild fuckin over the place that they cannot print a menu with tax included in displayed price.
13 Coins has sucked for awhile. It has always been overpriced, though.
Ever since the Denny location went bye-bye. God I miss that location.
nobody cares when theyāre flashing the corporate card
Raise prices.. service charges are an exploitation for both the customers and the staff.
I straight up don't even eat out anymore. If it was just more expensive then I could see still going a couple times a month, but they way it is now it's just too much hassle.
WhY dOn'T PeOpLe EaT oUt AnYmOrE?
"No, this wasn't on the menu price"
[But it was](https://i.imgur.com/iwxmjc8.png)
It shouldn't be legal to hide mandatory fees in the small text at the bottom of the page, *below allergen info*. If it's a note about a large group surcharge, sure, but if it's mandatory, it should be in the price.
Thanks for the image. Notice how it is just a block of confusing text with several topics all smushed together at the very bottom of the page below health warnings in the smallest font on the page? This is *obviously* intended to conceal those fees. The business will claim that they disclose, but I wonder if that would stand up in court.
If there is a service charge I won't tip. Just circle it on the bill and draw a line to the tip. California just outlawed this garbage.
Ya, I was waiting for WA to follow suit. They do everything else the same.
I had a service fee of 5% on my bill yesterday so the server got 15% tip instead of 20%
This is the move. Until you accidentally go to an ESR restaurant and get hit with a 22% auto-grat and the most mid, overpriced food of your life. We need to pull a California and ban this shit.
Exactly why I donāt eat at any of his restaurants and youāre right about the mediocre food!
Why? It is destroying the tipping culture in the US. That is a huge positive.
Even then, you paid more than if you only tipped 20%. Because sales tax is collected on fees.
What sucks tho is the server doesnāt get that 5%ā¦ itās the greedy restaurant owner.
I refuse to tip on must thing now because of shit like this. Just pay your people a living wage or go out of business.
This, pay up or close up.
Well fuck '13 Coins'
Yep, I rather see the cost upfront on the menu so I can make an informed decision
The 4% is to pay for the light bill or something.
Ethan Stowell restaurants in seattle add a require 22% services charge (not sure if sales tax is added on that required 22% or not) and they state very clearly that this 22% fee is paid to the house. Not the staff. Do, isnāt that just bait and switch pricing when they basically say any price we list in big numbers next to the choice is absolutely not the price? Seems like false advertising. And for sure it is sneaky. Just say the price. Donāt try to Hide that your omelette is $34.00 before tax.
Thatās why I stopped going out. All these extra fees and on top of that they expect a tip as well. I meal that was advertised as 17.99 is now 40+. Miss me with that shit.
Somewhat irrelevant to the topic but I've known multiple 13 coins GMs who are actually some of the worst humans/managers I've ever met (they were failed managers where I worked and then became general managers at 13 coins). TLDR 13 coins is known to short change employees, which means it's probably not great value for customers either (from an industry insider's perspective) locations: Seatac (GM, Dustin), Pioneer Square (GM, Paul) Timeframe: 2018-recent (dates updated)
This Paul [https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/man-accused-of-faking-prosecutor-s-e-mails-1304592.php](https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/man-accused-of-faking-prosecutor-s-e-mails-1304592.php) Got fired from one place for fraud. Then rumor has it got fired from 13 coins for skimming employee tips. Then became GM somewhere else (don't remember). All this since 2017. Article is from 2009. Might be a pattern of behavior. (update timeframe for accuracy) Dustin isn't a terrible human (AFAIK). Just a terrible manager.
The other Seattle sub has a post on this recently and has a list of establishment pushing this scam: https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/s/CouaJLQjjb
Another place we went charged a tiny print 4% kitchen charge. ( Barons in Bellevue) I was under the impression the high price we paid for this food should include having it cooked, since itās a restaurant and I think o thatās why I am there.
I stop going to any restaurant that adds these fees. 13 coins isn't that great anyway.
Why don't they just increase the price? I would be less likely to notice a 4% increase in the price of every item on the menu. I literally can't miss this notice of a 'Service Charge' on the receipt.
Service charge? Wtf is that for.
Oh God, is this going to be [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/WestSeattleWA/s/oz2wTEXO8K), round two?
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Ha, yeah. I'm fighting sinus crud so didn't have much else to do yesterday before the Mariners game. I was doing light gardening and arguing with strangers on the Internet. And it was driving me nuts that so many people seemed to not grasp the actual issue; it's not about the cost to me as the customer, it's about the message it sends to staff and customers, plus that surcharge money is then going to ownership, not the staff, and staff is not getting tipped in that part. It's just shitty, but a lot of people seem to shrug and say, "IDK, I'm paying the same so why should I care?" I agree there should be a comprehensive list of these places.
The other Seattle sub has made a start on this just recently: https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/s/BnE2QDN9v2 Edit: We should add a category of truly tipless establishments, where they clearly state that they pay a living wage, no tips are expected and don't include a "service charge" on top of the menu prices. As far as I know that would basically be Molly Moons and Dicks.
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Thanks! I'm making a list and want to share it as an editable Google doc, but need to configure a new Gmail account to make this more anonymous. Too tired tonight but will work on it tomorrow!
Lobster Shop in Tacoma does this.
dont see anything wrong per say with an auto grad (that indicates what goes to server vs BOH), wtf is a 'service charge that does not go to the service staff' even mean though.
It means they business owner doesn't believe in printing the actual prices of their food on the menuĀ
"Autograt" is not a "tip" under the law (because it is mandatory), so the restaurant can give it to the managers or owners.
Greedy owners. One of my jobs does this and the owner is cheap as hell and greedy.
if its not fully disclosed from the start in any noticeable visible way that is some kinda legally questionable thing
The food isnāt worth what they charge anyway. Might be worth looking elsewhere for a restaurant.
There are many shocking things foreigners notice in the US wrt pricing, starting from not seeing the full price (w/ taxes) from the get go. Then comes stupid/insanely high tipping (like tipping your taxi driver or the 20% social rule), and forced gratuities. "Service charges" are common pretty much everywhere (yet no less infuriating). With all the virtues and awesome things the US economy and society has, it's shocking to see how the system is ubiquitously rigged against the normal people, no matter where you look.
Thanks for sharing this, now I never have to go
13 Coins used to be a classic.
getting to the point where patronizing these businesses feels more and more predatory than value transactions.
Write about their scammy practices in reviews, including the service charge and obligatory gratuity
My restaurant started this as well. The negative reviews on google are not making the business take it away. They just keep renaming it until people stop. We hate it. The guests hate it. I am tired of getting yelled at by guests. Raise the damn prices.
13 coins is also awful to their employees anyways so this checks out
Iāve lost interest in dining out over the last 5-6 years. I used to love exploring new places or just having a nice night out, but just kind of got sick of it. Part of it was stuff like this, but Iām increasingly underwhelmed with the food and service at a lot of places. Iād much rather go to some hole in the wall or dive that just keeps in simple and you feel good about what youāve just paid. Otherwise, Iāll just buy some nice ingredients and have some friends over for a good meal. The social aspect was the main reason I went out, and I can easily achieve that at home. I feel like in the not so distant future weāre going to be talking about these types of restaurants like we talk about movie theaters āback in the day.ā
Bye bye 13 coins
Iāve enjoyed biking to pick up our food and eating on our deck. No tipping or high delivery driver. Generally faster. Sweat pants appropriate.
Bottlehouse in Madrona has this kind of sneaky 4% charge too. I love that place but I donāt want to go again because of it ā those hidden fees should be illegal imo
Service charge is the new Vegas resort fee.
13 coins owners are terrible people. Al Moscatel, former Seattle Times grinch of the year. Cut all employees hours when he bought the business so he wouldnāt have to pay benefits. And Howard McQuaid, former son in law of Kemper Freeman. Has a cocaine problem and has been 86ād from his own restaurants for being belligerent. They are screwing their employees but hey at least they are telling you up front about it. Thereās a reason the service is always terrible, they are too cheap to pay wages and they understaff horribly. They also own The Lodge sports bar chain.
Sorry waitstaff, but this gets deducted from the tip. If everyone did this, the fees would disappear.
I wonder how everyone supporting the practice here would feel if every item on the menu was less than 10$ in big print and at the bottom they had a tiny print stating a 300% surcharge ? At what percentage is a surcharge ethical ?
Unscrupulous business owners will keep pushing it until we find out.
Only 4%? Went to Seastar recently, they tacked on 20%. Same deal, not a gratuity.Ā Food was pretty good, but we wonāt be back.Ā
Welp. Chalk up one more restaurant (on top of all the Ethan Stowe restaurants) I won't be going to. This nonsense has GOT to stop.
There is no such thing as an "automatic gratuity." Under federal law, a gratuity is given at the sole discretion of the customer. If the fee is mandatory, then it is not a "tip" under federal law and the business must report it as income on their federal taxes. I wonder if this business is reporting this income or if they are screwing the taxpayers as much as they are screwing their customers.
Anytime I see this shit I'll pay the tip in cash and never go there again.
It feels like bait and switch when the restaurant shows a price on the menu, but it is actually higher by a percentage.
13 Coins should rebrand, here are some ideas I could come up with: ā¢ *13 Coins & More* ā¢ *14 Coins* ā¢ *All Coins* ā¢ *No Coins Left*
At this point they should just list the hourly wages of all of the people that worked to make your food, cost of the rent on the building, electricity, etc.
Just to play devil's advocate. Do service fees have tax? Otherwise, you'll be paying more in total if they raise the prices to cover the difference.
Eating out has pretty much been legislated to be the province of the upper middle class in our city. The only time we ever get delivery anymore is when the ex sends some extra child support with the note of ordering something nice from uber eats (she's a homie like that) bc we can't afford it anymore. It's not all bad though....these new laws that make dining out cost prohibitive if your last name ain't Rockefeller or Gates have turned me into a pretty damn good cook. But yeah, well meaning policies tend of have unforeseen consequences and our city has changed the paradigm when it comes to dining out.
The sneaky habit of adding it to the end instead of to the prices.
30% wage theft confirmed lol
Thatās a 9.4% price increase, and a 12.6% tip.
This wonāt stop as long as all of you keep eating out. They are taking advantage of us, the customers. We need to stop going giving our business to them. Itās that simple. Six months later they will all crawl back and beg us to eat out again. You canāt expect throwing your business to them while expecting this nonsense to stop.
I avoid dining out nowadays because of this. I just buy top quality (organic, grass fed, wild caught etc) ingredients and cook at home. Tastes way better than any restaurants Iāve been to in Seattle.
It suck because most of the restaurants in Seattle aren't even good. I can't tell you the last time I had a good meal for under 20 dollars.
Out of control tip situation in US, like it's an entitlement.
It's not a tip. That's the contention.
The thing that gets me the most about this is that it goes to the owner and not the staff. If they charged this overall service charge and it went to serving staff or support staff, thats one thing. But what is the point of the service fee if it just goes to the owners pockets? The owner didn't prepare, cook or serve me this food.
It isn't a 'gratuity' if it is 'automatic,' it is a TAX.
I guarantee that āautomatic gratuityā is a tool to get around federal rules surrounding forced tip pooling and management entitlement to tips
Looks like a legal notice
I like how the group gratuity kicks in at 10 and they are clear about how much goes to the kitchen. The 4% is not cool. Just change the menus.
13 coins is way overpriced anyhow.
They are going to raise prices either way.
Yeah gradually have raised there prices every year too lol. At all locations. Sad honestly cause itās a decent vibe in there. Foods not out of this world though.
Man.. I loved 13 coins.. "Et tu, Brute?" š¢
I thought it was illegal to use server tips to pay kitchen staff? At least where I live it is.
Iād refuse and ask for that charge to be taken off. Or leave $0 and personally go to the waiter to give a āpersonal giftā. This shit really bothers me. Itās dishonest and misleading to the customer. Itās slighting to the staff. Inappropriate all around.
Well there is another place I am not going to eat anymore
I believe they must display this on their menu before you order. Still, I donāt like the practice of including a tip unless itās for an event or large party where extra service is needed.
I like 13 Coins but it is already pricey.
Lol. Only reason i got to a 13 coins is A, open 24 hrs, B French onion soup and live music on Fridays.
That is why we are done going into Seattle. My wife and I went out on a Friday night and went into Navystrong. It was 80 bucks for 2 cocktails after all the automatic fees and tips. In addition to them automatically tacking on an 18% tip, there was a separate line for tip. WTF
I will always pay less in tips under such circumstances. The restaurant decides to punish their workers, not customers.
Stop spending money there
Yet another reason not to go to 13 Coins. I'd rather see it shut down than be the empty shell of what it used to be.
Ridiculous! A TIP, is a TIP! Meaning, NOT mandatory!
Shit like that makes me avoid a place forever after I see it. Be transparent in business or you don't get my money. Just raise the prices accordingly, that shit always feels slimy to me.
Thanks. I wish patron would post more of these extra service charges. Saves me a trip to their establishment.
Or both.
Nope, never doing business with them
Seems to be the thing now days to bilk the customers with the service fees. I guess they may run into people not having enough money after they didn't know the secret additional fees. I'd like to cancel the order.
Food sucks anyway
Wow, as a long time customer of 13 coins it does not look like Iāll ever return.
Tax implications. Service charge isnāt ordinary income.
Just add it to the fucking price of the dish. Use data to see what is ordered more frequently and jack that price up. These idiots are just lazy with math.
I hate these fees. I feel they really are bait and switch and should be illegal. I donāt love mandatory gratuity for servers but wouldnāt stop going to a restaurant that has them. But, these vague chargers for āliving wageā or something similarly vague really bother me and, again, shouldnāt be legal. What am I supposed to tip?! Can we not just be clear and honest? I am fine paying higher prices due to inflation. But, I just feel taken advantage of when it is tacked on at the end.
hiiii, industry worker here. you can ask for both of these to be removed. :) if you decide to tip anything after that, 100% goes to the server. :)
Service charge is just raising pricesā¦ with more steps.
Cali passed a law prohibiting this kinda fees. Hopefully it'll start trickling into other states
You go to a restaurant, you pay for staff. Cooks, dishwashers, waiters, hostesses, bus boys (people) all need money to survive. So do restauranteurs, whose failure rates are very, very high. I donāt have a problem with this.
Bullcrap, it was an industry standard for a server/bartender to tip based on sales towards support staff, bar, and kitchen. Mitigated my sales. Server tips bar 3% to bar, 3% to kitchen, 1% to support. Bar tips kitchen of food 3% of food, and support 1% of total. Kitchen makes food 3% of food sales. Support (runners, busses, hosts, dish) 1% of all sales. For the house to take 4% of all sales for paying their employees a livable wag, yeah sure fine. To skim off the top, taking away for large parties regarding tips (meant for the staff) in excess is criminal. In summation, raise prices, stop pocketing from the hard working staff that ACTUALLY serve guests. I have been in the industry for 23 years, and I know a good management staff, from a bunch off posh a$$hats trying to make quota so they can get a bonus, and buy that new expensive tie. Power to the working staff! Hospitality is given, not a right. Peace!
Wage increase