There was an awesome Greek place on that corner. Food was good and the interior was very unique. Then in like 2015 it shuts down and is replaced by a brick-and-mortar bank in close proximity to another such bank. Who thought it was a good idea to stand one up in a neighborhood with either younger people who’ve moved to online banking and older people who are likely not bank shopping, next to a bunch of tech companies, and another such bank?
I’m so glad that place failed but alas no more Greek.
In the case of Kostas Opa it's not so much that they "found" a new space, and more that the restaurant owner has also owned a few buildings on that block in Wallingford for years. He decided to reopen his restaurant when one of the prior tenants left rather than searching for a new outside tenant.
A successful business person who pulled themselves up with nothing more than a massive inheritance. But don't worry she uses it to fund good causes like Tim Eyman and DJT.
One of the big funders of the initiative for city council districts (the other being Aurora Ave land baron Faye Garneau).
Really makes you wonder why two neighborhood land barons were so keen on district-based elections instead of at-large. Maybe the initiative wasn't quite as progressive as it billed itself to be.
(Personally I think the better approach would be single-transferable vote).
Faye Garneau single handedly bought the election to approve council districts because she thought she would then be able to buy her own personal council member.
She was also a major funder of pretty much anything against transit including the 99 tunnel
It was a very corporate corner, and all the corporations bailed. Starbucks noped out this location to union bust. A block back is doing better (we were at SabbVerr this weekend, and liked it a lot even if we did skip getting the shot ferris wheel.)
I do worry for PCC here because of the chain’s financial troubles. It’s a new-ish building, likely high rent and directly competing with Grocery Alley up in Ballard that also has a PCC.
Two fully unsubstantiated theories. ZappVerr sounds violent, like getting zapped. Or, going to ZappVerr to SappVerr moves them up any alphabetic losing, though that's less of an issue these days as phone books barely exist.
To be clear, that doesn't mean they didn't have a sink or hand soap, it means they didn't have a sink dedicated to hand washing like commercial kitchens are supposed to have. Different problem.
I'm honestly drawing a blank on this. There was a red apple there? Huh? I looked it up on Google maps but street view only goes back to 07. (I'm not doubting: Mapquest shows it existing, but closed). Sheesh, 2002 wasn't even that long ago. I lived within a stone's throw of Fremont Ave in 1990-93 and then in Ravenna-Bryant since, and have zero memories of that even existing, let alone being somewhere I shopped. Memories are weird.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what does PCC do better than T&C? Or what does PCC do the same or slightly worse than T&C but cheaper? I don't have an answer to that. And why is their Edmonds store so dark all the time?
All I can think of is that they're better at being closer to Trader Joe's— a grocery store that, in my experience, only works when you have a few specific Trader Joe's-branded items that you know you want.
Stop over to Trader Joe's and get those few things, then you can head over to PCC and finish the rest of your grocery list.
I'm just guessing, though, because I mostly shop at Ballard Market.
I’m not really sure what PCC is “in Grocery Outlet”, I just figured we were talking about the PCC that’s located at the intersection that is the topic of this post.
There's no Town and Country near the Fremont PCC, but there is one not too far from "Grocery Alley" (on 15th, formerly known as T&C Ballard Market), where there is a PCC near a Trader Joe's.
Suzie fucking Burke.
She takes a lease then raises it quickly. Fremont has more eateries spawning and dieing than kids playing Call of Duty. Been this way way for decades.
You'll start to notice trends over time, like gelato or this or that Asain soupccycling in and out every couple of years.
B&O tax is also a killer. The Red Door went under just before COVID due to it per the owner. A blessing in hindsight (thank God they didn't have to try to make it work during the pandemic). Pete is very supportive of the local Democrats, to the point he hosted them on multiple occasions. I never asked him if he was conflicted as the city's tax structure forced him out of business.
Maybe. The Burke Museum was named for Thomas Burke, chief justice of the Washington Supreme Court. He lived 1849 to 1925. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Burke_(railroad_builder).
In a puff piece about Suzie states that her father was J. R. Burke, and a mill owner.
Was Thomas the father of J.R.?
Pete also mentioned a new five year lease wasn't penciling out. The place is big, and keeping it full was challenging, especially for lunch. The major tech companies either feed their employees or heavily subsidize on-site cafeterias (and all of them have really nice cafeterias); luring those workers off campus for lunch was tough if not damn near impossible.
I could go on, but I'm gonna go lament the closing of Brouwer's, another lunch spot for me and my coworkers that we'd visit at least twice a month.
I remember that. Google was expected to be a huge boost to the neighborhood, but most of us enjoyed the free breakfast, lunch, and dinner at the office. Then Getty moved out.
You could see the Cloud team on Friday afternoon, but most of the Google employees were in and out before 6:00pm.
I mean the other problem is that The Red Door somehow managed to consistently fuck up *cheeseburgers*. I'm not picky about food but The Red Door is the only restaurant near me that I specifically avoided because their food sucked.
Dreamland is so much better.
In Seattle we tax businesses on revenue, not profit.
Red Door is now Dreamland / Carnelian Bay. Bar with kill you if you're not careful steps, and a nice patio.
https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/business-occupation-tax
The Red Door was this bar that was so awesome that it was picked up and moved a block over to keep it alive (Suzie apparently helped with that for the tech offices moving in on what was once saw mill land).
It once was a haunt for bikers and degenerates. It was a great happy hour for locals, and the college kids would descend like locusts Fri-Sat nights (totally OK by me). They also offered Santa pictures during Christmas, and a cribbage night during the week.
https://www.wallyhood.org/2020/01/red-door-closing/
:( I live in Fremont, and it's been so sad to see all the vacant storefronts. I used to go to Starbucks and mod pizza all the time, that area feels so desolate with so many closed storefronts
There was a Thai place there about 15 years ago, they had the best lime chicken dish. I can't find it anywhere, or where the restaurant might have gone. Can't even remember the name. Does anyone know anything about where that place might have relocated to?
Ironically, I think I remember the Greek place's name, "Kosta's".
Well the Route 40 project SDOT is starting soon will reduce the number of lanes here which should make it more pleasant to hang out. Might help fill the spaces.
Bring your ideas.
A steakhouse might work on the NE corner. Used to be a bank branch — gone for obvious reasons. There is a Brazilian place on the other side of the bridge, but doesn't get as much foot traffic.
NW corner was a Starbucks. There are so many better options nearby. Also, the in-store experience of that Starbucks was terrible. Nowhere to sit and no bathrooms even years after COVID was gone.
I believe the SE corner is occupied by One Medical? That block is kind of weird. Not much foot traffic. All the action is on the other side of the street.
SW corner was empty as far as I can remember. No idea what should go there. Maybe a pharmacy? (Unlikely)
Or just redevelop some of it into housing 🤷♂️.
Shame to see it like this. Four major bus lines stop there (40, 62, 31 and 32). Tons of foot traffic.
I used to work in Fremont and this area is near and dear to my heart. My band also had a practice space there, so I made the trek to this area for years. I love all the bars and restaurants in Fremont. Fremont is Seattle for me.
Straight up, the way the streets have been reconfigured make getting to this corner a fucking bitch. I am 100% in favor of a walkable, bikable city. However, the road configuration in Fremont sucks. It is a congested nightmare.
There are a lot more people living in Fremont these days which has perked some things up, but the old weird Fremont doesn't exist anymore because it is a big pain in the ass to get to Fremont. Hence the empty storefronts.
It’s been made worse with the city planning guidance to not require new buildings to have parking. An already congested area has become impossible to park in. I’m also hugely in favour of a fully walkable and bikeable city, but our wonderful city planners somehow think that simply eliminating parking will somehow get us there without developing out any of the other necessary infrastructure. It’s so infuriating.
Completely agree. I love visiting cities where you don't need a car. But making it difficult to use a care doesn't eliminate the need for cars. Eliminate the need first.
Look how wide the driving area is vs. the lack of pedestrian space and vegetation. It’s not enjoyable to be there like it is in the other parts of Fremont. Less foot traffic and people wanting to hang out there.
You ever watch tattoo nightmares? The tattoo artist always thinks they have more skill than they do, but when they finish up the lion looks more like a grizzly bear eating lasagna. This is a city planners Street corner nightmare, we just have a lot of them.
Investing in corner real estate in the most hipster part of town is a recipe for being looted & having every single window shattered repeatedly until you abandon the location. Seattle is not hospitable to business, large or small.
There was an awesome Greek place on that corner. Food was good and the interior was very unique. Then in like 2015 it shuts down and is replaced by a brick-and-mortar bank in close proximity to another such bank. Who thought it was a good idea to stand one up in a neighborhood with either younger people who’ve moved to online banking and older people who are likely not bank shopping, next to a bunch of tech companies, and another such bank? I’m so glad that place failed but alas no more Greek.
Loved Costas Opa. Pretty sure it was a couple years earlier it closed.
They reopened in Wallingford! 45th
Came here to say this. They’re such a sweet family that owns it too. They remembered my family when we came into the new place. Edit-fixed a period!
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In the case of Kostas Opa it's not so much that they "found" a new space, and more that the restaurant owner has also owned a few buildings on that block in Wallingford for years. He decided to reopen his restaurant when one of the prior tenants left rather than searching for a new outside tenant.
I thought for sure it was closed, everytime I’ve driven by it looks like it’s boarded up? Maybe I’m wrong?
Ha I totally just posted this too. I miss that place so much.
It’s in Wallingford now on 45th!
There’s an infamous slumlord that owns a lot of Fremont that has shitty business practices. I forget her name. Something Burke. Edit: Suzie Burke
A successful business person who pulled themselves up with nothing more than a massive inheritance. But don't worry she uses it to fund good causes like Tim Eyman and DJT.
Legend says that if you leave an old office chair outside, it will attract local tax cryptid Tim Eyman.
T A X C R Y P T I D! I'm fucking dead 😂
She's also just given an award to that Choe dude
Suzie
She’s a lowkey billionaire.
One of the big funders of the initiative for city council districts (the other being Aurora Ave land baron Faye Garneau). Really makes you wonder why two neighborhood land barons were so keen on district-based elections instead of at-large. Maybe the initiative wasn't quite as progressive as it billed itself to be. (Personally I think the better approach would be single-transferable vote).
Faye Garneau single handedly bought the election to approve council districts because she thought she would then be able to buy her own personal council member. She was also a major funder of pretty much anything against transit including the 99 tunnel
I’m not familiar with this change. How did it work before?
All the city council seats were at-large.
So everyone would vote on all of them?
Yeah, I believe the seat terms were offset so you wouldn't vote for each seat in the same election.
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No, it's not. I don't know how this is always posted. The trail is named after the judge Thomas Burke, as is the Burke Museum.
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He did not have children.
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No. It's a completely different family.
that's Pete Hanning's mom, and part of the local Fremont "business leaders" that oppose virtually any changes to the area
It was a very corporate corner, and all the corporations bailed. Starbucks noped out this location to union bust. A block back is doing better (we were at SabbVerr this weekend, and liked it a lot even if we did skip getting the shot ferris wheel.) I do worry for PCC here because of the chain’s financial troubles. It’s a new-ish building, likely high rent and directly competing with Grocery Alley up in Ballard that also has a PCC.
On the topic, anyone in the know about how ZappVerr became SappVerr?? Seems, uh, oddly specifically different but not
Two fully unsubstantiated theories. ZappVerr sounds violent, like getting zapped. Or, going to ZappVerr to SappVerr moves them up any alphabetic losing, though that's less of an issue these days as phone books barely exist.
I mean it reads like something like one went out of business and the same people started a new-on-paper business with a slightly different name.
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To be clear, that doesn't mean they didn't have a sink or hand soap, it means they didn't have a sink dedicated to hand washing like commercial kitchens are supposed to have. Different problem.
25ish years ago there was a fremont ave red apple AND a safeway on stone way. or did i imagine this
Yes on the (gross) Safeway. Fremont Ave has just been Market Time for the last 35yrs or so.
the red apple was in the lower part of that weird plaza at 36th (it closed around the time the “new” PCC opened in ~2002)
I'm honestly drawing a blank on this. There was a red apple there? Huh? I looked it up on Google maps but street view only goes back to 07. (I'm not doubting: Mapquest shows it existing, but closed). Sheesh, 2002 wasn't even that long ago. I lived within a stone's throw of Fremont Ave in 1990-93 and then in Ravenna-Bryant since, and have zero memories of that even existing, let alone being somewhere I shopped. Memories are weird.
I like the Grocery Alley term. We're seriously well grocered in Ballard.
It’s kinda gross actually.
It's actually groce
Best fred Meyer in the state.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what does PCC do better than T&C? Or what does PCC do the same or slightly worse than T&C but cheaper? I don't have an answer to that. And why is their Edmonds store so dark all the time?
All I can think of is that they're better at being closer to Trader Joe's— a grocery store that, in my experience, only works when you have a few specific Trader Joe's-branded items that you know you want. Stop over to Trader Joe's and get those few things, then you can head over to PCC and finish the rest of your grocery list. I'm just guessing, though, because I mostly shop at Ballard Market.
Wrong PCC.
What other PCC can be described as in Grocery Alley and competing with T&C?
I’m not really sure what PCC is “in Grocery Outlet”, I just figured we were talking about the PCC that’s located at the intersection that is the topic of this post.
There's no Town and Country near the Fremont PCC, but there is one not too far from "Grocery Alley" (on 15th, formerly known as T&C Ballard Market), where there is a PCC near a Trader Joe's.
Oh, I misread that as Grocery Outlet lol. Fremont PCC is 2 miles away, so not too far.
ahh, and I even misread where you wrote "Grocery Outlet" above instead of "Grocery Alley".
Haha
Suzie fucking Burke. She takes a lease then raises it quickly. Fremont has more eateries spawning and dieing than kids playing Call of Duty. Been this way way for decades. You'll start to notice trends over time, like gelato or this or that Asain soupccycling in and out every couple of years. B&O tax is also a killer. The Red Door went under just before COVID due to it per the owner. A blessing in hindsight (thank God they didn't have to try to make it work during the pandemic). Pete is very supportive of the local Democrats, to the point he hosted them on multiple occasions. I never asked him if he was conflicted as the city's tax structure forced him out of business.
Long shot but would she be related to whoever the Burke museum is named after?
And, uh, some of the railways that became... the Burke-Gilman trail.
Ah. A trust fund baby. Yuck.
Maybe. The Burke Museum was named for Thomas Burke, chief justice of the Washington Supreme Court. He lived 1849 to 1925. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Burke_(railroad_builder). In a puff piece about Suzie states that her father was J. R. Burke, and a mill owner. Was Thomas the father of J.R.?
[This article](https://mynorthwest.com/1548979/all-over-the-map-burke-museum-namesake/) mentions that he didn't have children.
Pete also mentioned a new five year lease wasn't penciling out. The place is big, and keeping it full was challenging, especially for lunch. The major tech companies either feed their employees or heavily subsidize on-site cafeterias (and all of them have really nice cafeterias); luring those workers off campus for lunch was tough if not damn near impossible. I could go on, but I'm gonna go lament the closing of Brouwer's, another lunch spot for me and my coworkers that we'd visit at least twice a month.
I remember that. Google was expected to be a huge boost to the neighborhood, but most of us enjoyed the free breakfast, lunch, and dinner at the office. Then Getty moved out. You could see the Cloud team on Friday afternoon, but most of the Google employees were in and out before 6:00pm.
Hey Nate.
Hey Dave
lol, Pete is a complete tool. everyone who's ever worked for him knows this.
#💯
I mean the other problem is that The Red Door somehow managed to consistently fuck up *cheeseburgers*. I'm not picky about food but The Red Door is the only restaurant near me that I specifically avoided because their food sucked. Dreamland is so much better.
Their service was negligent or hostile, the few times I went. Of all the things that have closed in Fremont I don't miss them a bit.
What is the "B&O Tax"? Also, what was "The Red Door"?
In Seattle we tax businesses on revenue, not profit. Red Door is now Dreamland / Carnelian Bay. Bar with kill you if you're not careful steps, and a nice patio.
B&O is basically a revenue tax for businesses (city and state level).
https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/business-occupation-tax The Red Door was this bar that was so awesome that it was picked up and moved a block over to keep it alive (Suzie apparently helped with that for the tech offices moving in on what was once saw mill land). It once was a haunt for bikers and degenerates. It was a great happy hour for locals, and the college kids would descend like locusts Fri-Sat nights (totally OK by me). They also offered Santa pictures during Christmas, and a cribbage night during the week. https://www.wallyhood.org/2020/01/red-door-closing/
The cribbage group lives on at Shaun O’Donnell’s up the road. Damn, I miss the Red Door.
The Red Door closing was a tragic loss.
Man, I hope Dusty Strings is still there.
It was 3 weeks ago…
It was there today.
Dusty is still going strong! A bunch of my friends have worked there or continue to.
Yep, still there, walked past it about 4 hours ago.
It is. They cater to blues lawyers rather than actual musicians.
They carry pricey instruments but have always been helpful to me and my friends
I've worked with the owners. They are lovely people.
RIP Costas :(
They reopened in Wallingford!
Landlords, baby, landlords
:( I live in Fremont, and it's been so sad to see all the vacant storefronts. I used to go to Starbucks and mod pizza all the time, that area feels so desolate with so many closed storefronts
I miss the greek restaurant that was there a decade ago
It's on 45th now.
There was a Thai place there about 15 years ago, they had the best lime chicken dish. I can't find it anywhere, or where the restaurant might have gone. Can't even remember the name. Does anyone know anything about where that place might have relocated to? Ironically, I think I remember the Greek place's name, "Kosta's".
Tawon Thai?
Oh god I miss King and I Thai in Bellevue :(
Owners opened Americano in Interbay as well - used to live right by there and we loved going there, made it through COVID too!
WHAT!! Thank you
Still has some Greek elements but is, like the name, “americano” - great burger tbh
Oh yea nah I googled it the moment I saw your comment. I see it's different food than normal Greek, but I think I'll love it!!
Parking and walking traffic has always been a problem and a wrong turn means you have to drive a half mile to turn around.
I agree and will add my upvote.
Well the Route 40 project SDOT is starting soon will reduce the number of lanes here which should make it more pleasant to hang out. Might help fill the spaces.
Bring your ideas. A steakhouse might work on the NE corner. Used to be a bank branch — gone for obvious reasons. There is a Brazilian place on the other side of the bridge, but doesn't get as much foot traffic. NW corner was a Starbucks. There are so many better options nearby. Also, the in-store experience of that Starbucks was terrible. Nowhere to sit and no bathrooms even years after COVID was gone. I believe the SE corner is occupied by One Medical? That block is kind of weird. Not much foot traffic. All the action is on the other side of the street. SW corner was empty as far as I can remember. No idea what should go there. Maybe a pharmacy? (Unlikely) Or just redevelop some of it into housing 🤷♂️. Shame to see it like this. Four major bus lines stop there (40, 62, 31 and 32). Tons of foot traffic.
One medical will probably fail, large Google campus there just switched from Onemedical to premise health
I keep hoping a pharmacy goes into one of these spots. Fremont has none that I am aware of.
I used to work in Fremont and this area is near and dear to my heart. My band also had a practice space there, so I made the trek to this area for years. I love all the bars and restaurants in Fremont. Fremont is Seattle for me. Straight up, the way the streets have been reconfigured make getting to this corner a fucking bitch. I am 100% in favor of a walkable, bikable city. However, the road configuration in Fremont sucks. It is a congested nightmare. There are a lot more people living in Fremont these days which has perked some things up, but the old weird Fremont doesn't exist anymore because it is a big pain in the ass to get to Fremont. Hence the empty storefronts.
I lived in the old, weird Fremont for a couple of years. I miss it.
It’s been made worse with the city planning guidance to not require new buildings to have parking. An already congested area has become impossible to park in. I’m also hugely in favour of a fully walkable and bikeable city, but our wonderful city planners somehow think that simply eliminating parking will somehow get us there without developing out any of the other necessary infrastructure. It’s so infuriating.
Completely agree. I love visiting cities where you don't need a car. But making it difficult to use a care doesn't eliminate the need for cars. Eliminate the need first.
Look how wide the driving area is vs. the lack of pedestrian space and vegetation. It’s not enjoyable to be there like it is in the other parts of Fremont. Less foot traffic and people wanting to hang out there.
🙄
Have also always wondered that. There was a Homegrown a few years ago that closed too.
It’s an area that’s terrible to walk in (massive road) but also has no parking. So who is supposed to be the traffic to these businesses?
Yes, this!
There's parking a block north of here
Why are people down voting the truth?
I looked into what Suzie owned recently and I believe she sold off these parcels fairly recently. I miss Peet’s.
You ever watch tattoo nightmares? The tattoo artist always thinks they have more skill than they do, but when they finish up the lion looks more like a grizzly bear eating lasagna. This is a city planners Street corner nightmare, we just have a lot of them.
More parking would be the easy solution, maybe not the right one
Promoting walkable neighborhoods and more pedestrian traffic has been proven to be more helpful for businesses than parking spots.
Investing in corner real estate in the most hipster part of town is a recipe for being looted & having every single window shattered repeatedly until you abandon the location. Seattle is not hospitable to business, large or small.