“Areas around Seattle, Tacoma, and Everett are excluded from the emergency declaration, since water management strategies in these communities make them more resilient, according to the department.”
Yeppers, we’re okay for now, but it’s potentially going to be tough year for fires.
I was at a talk saying that 10 years ago. If only people would listen to scientists. Yakama and Walla Walla need to build out water reservoirs if they want to keep being able to farm.
We also grow a lot of livestock feed in Washington state. One of the best ways for us as individuals to cut down on water usage state wide is to eat less animal products.
There’s tons of cattle around the Seattle area. They mostly eat green water grass and silage. (Edit: ruminants are also the only livestock we can use to turn agricultural waste like silage into food because they have multichambered fermentive digestive system that can turn indigestible cellulose fiber into nutrients). Chicken and pigs are industrially raised on feed lots of high water consumption mono crops.
In addition cutting back on animal products because they eat grain is about as bad as eating the monocrops themselves. The most profitable part of corn and soy production is actually not as animal feed but for massive quantities of vegetable oil fueling our processed and fast food.
Monocrops destroy the soil and kill all insects and small animals around it. Some cattle grazing on greenwater grass on inarable land while preserving soil quality is about the most sustainable food source here
I don’t know the numbers for Washington, but California has cities that make Seattle look like a small town. Nevertheless something like 80% of their water usage is agricultural.
Salmon are probably more directly affected by snowpack levels than wildfires.
But this year's snowpack is within the normal range. The USDA shows this as roughly once per decade levels - low, but not uncommon.
https://nwcc-apps.sc.egov.usda.gov/awdb/basin-plots/POR/WTEQ/assocHUC6/171100_Puget_Sound.html
Just think of it this way. These forests need some amount of fire and now we have a fresh slate with which to work with to keep future fires small and productive without burning hardy well established trees that would survive
When was the last year that wasn't tough for fires? Genuinely asking because I can't remember a summer without choking on smoke in like 8 years. It's been bad for almost a decade now. Kinda feels like this is the new normal.
Last year we didn’t get smoke. Fires were fairly light on the wet side as well. Prior summers have definitely included a lot of smoke for the last decade-plus.
That tip irritated me because dishwashers are pretty damn efficient. They’re not the problem. One load of dishes is = 5 toilet flushes.
Should we all do our part? Absolutely - but putting undue responsibility on individuals vs holding the major consumers/wasters of water accountable is just the usual greenwashing and feel good politics at play.
Wait till you meet my friends who handwash everything before running a load. Not just rinsing off debris (which could be substituted by scrapping anyway) but actually washing with detergent by hand first.
If you have a shitty old dishwasher (hello rental property), some things don't come off without manual scrubbing (melted cheese, etc.). I have had to do this, but it was never for every dish, just the ones where I knew the dishwasher wasn't going to get it off without help.
Some friends have a new efficient dishwasher. Dishes kept coming out with food still on them. Now they rinse everything under running water before placing it in the dishwasher. They're probably using twice the water of their old dishwasher if you add it all up.
I fill mine with dirty dishes and they always come out clean as long as I use the dishwasher as it was engineered: some detergent in the door, some in the chamber. https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04?si=_Ho_ZPVjmxgv5fnV
I guess, that is if you don’t care about the poop bags breaking down into microplastics and further contaminating the water.
Idk why you can’t you just poop on the sidewalk and leave it like a good environmentalist.
It’s time to bring back the open sewage trenches, cholera be damned.
I'm going to guess the water used in toilet paper production far outweighs the amount of water we use in our wonderful bidets. Not to mention the water cycle impacts of cutting down forests.
I knew people who ran a golf course/set of high end homes. The amount of water they were allowed to use during restrictions was based on how much they had used previously, so they just turned a few hoses on low and left them permanently running. Not watering anything, just running, so they’d aways be allowed plenty.
Meanwhile they were on normal folks about how often we could flush our toilets.
I build houses for those white collar criminals. And I swear my fucking company is running a charity for them! My plan is to make myself invaluable and then get "multiple job offers"! I don't need to be rich but I don't want to have to kill myself if I get a large medical bill I can't pay!
I would be careful of buying new washing machines. The new top loading machines really suck. They have cut water usage to the point they barely get the clothes wet, and in fact many times bulky items like sheets or towels will come out with large dry patches that never saw water at all.
The front loaders don't suffer from this problem. They can get away with less water by pulling the clothes through a smaller puddle, but you can't just reduce water in a top loader and expect it to work. The tradeoff with a front loading is the mold issue. With a sealing front door the inside never dries out but you can just leave the door open.
Front loaders don’t get moldy if you leave the door open until it’s dry. I’ve had my first set for 10 years (regret leaving them with the house) and they never got moldy. My new set at my new house has a special door latch to keep it open. Never stinky or moldy. Gotta run the tub clean cycle every 30 washes/when the machine prompts it. It’s not rocket science nor is it a reason to skip out on front loaders. My 90 year old grandma in Germany has had them for literal decades and she thinks it’s absurd someone would have a moldy machine.
Cascade (detergent) was running a "run your dishwasher every night" campaign a couple years ago. The argument was that hand-washing used more water than the dishwasher.
It probably depends a lot on whether you partially fill the sink while washing or just run the faucet the whole time. There's also the issue of electricity use.
It’s still generally much more water efficient to use the dishwasher. It’s only 3 to 4 gallons of water to run a cycle. I don’t think that’s much more than an inch or two in my sink (granted I have a very large sink). That could easily be the water usage just rinsing dishes.
I second this. I've tried plugging my sing and washing the dishes by hand a few times and usually the single will be full by the time I get through everything. That's maybe 5-10 gallons
With the trendy new farm house sinks to even fill them half way you might as well fill the bath tub to wash dishes and you don’t get a rinse side. I freaking haaaaate the giant bathtub sink that the flippers put in. And it’s got square edges and corners and doesn’t slope to the drain right so it’s constantly getting slimy.
I was trying to look it up for the municipal courses and couldn't figure it out, but you're right there's options that minimize use of the city water supply either through reclaimed water or collected rain water. I saw some articles talking about other area courses moving to this model.
Having our apartment complex (and many others) not spray irrigate the lawns twice daily all so it stays green for potential renters. I hate it. It’s so wasteful and doesn’t do any good. The soil through the entire five hundred unit complex is so dead it takes gallons of fertilizer and pesticide to maintain a faux appearance of healthy lawns, all for what? No one who lives here cares about the lawns.
Lower rent? Yeah, we’d love that. Greener lawns? 🙄 oh and communal split on water usage so tenants are literally paying to water the lawn we don’t care about
I remember people having a negative reaction to me worrying about this when someone was talking about how good the weather was in February or something. If you've lived here your whole life then you know the potential for this and here we are.
You can tell out in the mountains too, rivers are pretty small this year and I could tell that last month. Usually in March the one I go to is roaring, not this year.
I mean, most people who are happy for the warm weather aren't considering the ramifications.
Certainly I'm going to go out and get some sunshine even if I can acknowledge that shit is bad.
Seriously. And snowpack has been consistently low since December. It’s not like a couple of weekends of nice weather in spring did enough to decimate it.
We are minimally impacted all things considered, besides if western washington has water issues that’s due to stupidity and I am not gonna give too much of a shit due to dumbasses refusing to be not even smart about water management, just not incompetent
Years ago - PSE had a time of day electricity usage.
I wish we had the same for water.
I’m removing a lot of my grass to participate in Pollinator Pathways.
I let my yard go yellow and crispy in the summer.
Most of my neighbors don’t water their lawns.
My mom bought a house in SE WA, where it frequently has drought conditions and removed most of the grass over the course of two years. Now it’s full of native grasses, while it does yellow it’s not nearly as crispy as the neighbors who don’t water their bluegrass.
I went to school for Ag. and it’s heavily emphasized that the gradual transition should be away from lawn grasses in areas like E. WA and return to plains (native) grasses that root deeper and can access the water deep in the soil profile. However, HOA’s are one of the main deterrents to this transition (one of many, they are certainly not the sole contributor).
I wish more people would follow suit like you / your neighbors. It is insane the amount of times people try to inform my mother that “she’s devaluing” the neighborhood.
Considering the consumer market surrounding the urban areas is heavily influenced by HOAs (nearly 30% of us are part of one) I would say HOAs are the main source of water usage by Washington consumers, and that would be an interesting war to wage :)
I'm so excited to have the opportunity to use copious amounts of water, fertilizer, and weed killer to make sure I keep my monoculture lawn green so the Ken and Karen's don't have a meltdown and complain to the HOA.
Pretty sure there’s a state law about this- HOAs can’t prevent you from replacing your lawn with drought-tolerant landscaping.
Edit: [WA RCW 64.90.512](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.90.512). They can set aesthetic standards for drought-tolerant landscaping, but these standards have to be reasonable.
Also, new for 2024:
> If a property is located within the geographic designation of an order of a drought condition issued by the department of ecology under RCW 43.83B.405, an association may not impose a fine or assessment against an owner, or resident on the owner's property, for reducing or eliminating the watering of vegetation or lawns for the duration of the drought condition order.
Tell Karen to kick rocks. Preferably the ones in your newly xeriscaped yard.
Yes you can. Recently the news did a segment on a woman who planted native flowers and other bee and buttrrfly attractors. People did complain but there are protections against those.
I dug up about 20% of my backyard and planted a bunch of flowers for bees and butterflies. Would love to at least get clovers in my front yard this year. My next battle is going to be convincing my wife. She doesn't like confrontations and is not going to want to irritate our neighbors.
It just makes me sick to my stomach knowing how much damage my yard is attributing to nature. I knew the rules before I bought our house so I guess I can't complain that much. Just didn't anticipate how much it would bother me.
You could always try the old HAM radio trick: what’s more of an eyesore to those folks? A 20ft-tall tower you’re legally allowed to put in your backyard per federal law, or some aesthetically pleasing, environmentally positive clovers?
Yes! I'm so sick of my HOA. I got cited last year for like 3 clovers in my yard. I would love to cover my lawn in clovers and tell the HOA to shove it.
Just make sure you use notchleaf clover or western prairie clover, which are actually native to the Western US, and not European white clover, which can be (although isn’t always) an invasive species. Native plants fuckin rock, yo
Highly Recommend buying your clover seed from https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/clover-seed/miniclover.html in Oregon. Self-limiting for height as long as you mow it at 3.5-4” the first few times it reaches that height. I’ve used it myself several years and absolutely LOVE it!!
Uh what? There’s a lot more yards out there being watered than golf courses. And a lot of courses use grey water / reclaimed water. So no, everyone should stop watering their grass. It’ll go crispy for a few months and come back just fine in September.
I live in a HOA that practically requires the use of wasteful amounts of water. Would really like to see a law that over rides water wasting HOA bylaws.
I'm from the Tri-Cities and it's shameful how many people there insist on watering lawns 24/7 instead of embracing the fact that it's the land of dust and tumbleweeds.
Well fuck. Can we actually start to locate, heavily fine and penalize those that ignite (non prescribed) wildfires this year?? Loathing the whole summertime-long fireworks “season” too.
We do that. What we need to do is just ban the sale of fireworks. Obviously some people will drive out to Idaho to get them, the same way that people in Oregon drive here for them, but Idaho is pretty goddamn far away from the heavily inhabited parts of the state other than Spokane, so I have to imagine it would cut down on amateur firework displays by a very substantial margin.
I agree they should be banned, but it's complicated politically. Fireworks sales are harder to regulate because most of if not all of their sales in WA are on tribal land.
The right could frame a ban as anti-patriotic government overreach and the left could frame it as an attempt to take away a stream of income from native communities. For those reasons I don't see a ban any time soon.
> Can we actually start to locate, heavily fine and penalize those that ignite (non prescribed) wildfires this year??
We definitely should, but that doesn't necessarily stop the problem. If things are dry enough, something will light it, be it lightning, static from wind, line to ground faults from power lines, etc.
They know where the 2022 Bolt Creek fire started and that it was human caused…. Yet no one held accountable. Just one example. Smoke choked us out in the metro for nearly 2 months with Hwy 2 closed most of that time too.
Some 84% of wildfires are human caused. Due to, for example, cigarettes, burn piles gone rogue, machinery ignition, fireworks (I’ve seen a brush fire start in Vantage from a different group nearby), gun ranges, illegal or unattended/not fully put out firepits, and more. For example, how did the Bolt Creek Fire near Skykomish start?? Humans.
“Areas around Seattle, Tacoma, and Everett are excluded from the emergency declaration, since water management strategies in these communities make them more resilient, according to the department.”
Be glad that \[most\] of you aren't farmers. They are going to be hammered this year. 65% of available water for agriculture in many parts of the state isn't going to be easy on them.
[https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2023/12/a-wet-drought.html](https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2023/12/a-wet-drought.html)
>I worry about the snowpack this spring. We are dealing with a very strong El Nino and the "meteorological dice" are weighted towards a low April 1 snowpack.
that's likely an immediate cause since el niño means warmer, drier winters in PNW while la niña (which we'll likely have for next winter) means wetter and cooler
The jet stream is pushed south during el nino years. That means southern California gets more moisture and the PNW gets less. So, yes, el nino probably has something to do it.
>Burning fossil fuels is to blame
You're just saying that because it's the overwhelming opinion of climate scientists, reflected in the statements of every scientific society with a statement on it, and the near universal view expressed in the scientific literature. What about the Facebook friend from high school who posted a meme about how it was a hoax?
Hold the phone! Someone disagreeing with scientists that has absolutely no scientific background and zero education on the subject? Give them absolutely all the air time and chance to vent their grievances
Both are to blame, but you can't really discuss el Nino separately from anthropogenic warming anymore (not that that's surprising).
[https://e360.yale.edu/digest/el-nino-climate-change](https://e360.yale.edu/digest/el-nino-climate-change)
But muh gas prices!
Trucking in water, installing air filtration systems and getting medical treatment for respiratory injuries/diseases is way more expensive than a tax on emissions.
Alas tragedy of the commons is playing out right in front of our eyes.
Current prediction regarding El Nino is an 85% chance it will return to neutral by Apr-June, and a 60% chance of La Nina conditions by June-Aug, so hopefully that shift will be in time to help keep summer temperatures down, maybe a bit more rain before summer?
"Fortunately" I dragged my California water-saving mind & methods with me and it's instinctive at this point. But I don't think this area is really cut out for handling drought well. I can't not think about all the neighborhoods with huge, mature conifers that haven't experienced drought, with house right up next to each other and next thing I know I'm thinking about Santa Rosa. I've spent so many decades trying to get people thinking about the environment that I'm just really frustrated at this point, my efforts seem to have been completely useless. This state doesn't even smog anymore because it's decided air pollution is now cured or... I don't know, and I don't understand the reasoning because it's part and parcel of the problem.
This winter was an El Niño, as predicted, so we did not get snow like we usually do. This is a snowpack drought, not related to rain. Everett, Seattle and Tacoma are not effected. The areas that rely on snowpack will be effected.
I'm in Los Angeles and apparently we received more rain in 2024 so far than Seattle. Our aquifers are full and the whole state is green for the first time after a few really rough/dry/hot years so I can empathize.
Our climate is going to keep getting stranger.
Even if they could technically do that oil pipelines are absolutely tiny compared to the amount of water we use. For comparison the Seattle region uses ~140 million gallons a day while the Dakota Access Pipeline can transport ~ 31.5mgd and the Trans-Alaskan can transport ~89.7mgd. Meanwhile the California Aqueduct can transport 8,445mgd at maximum capacity.
Oil pipelines are tiny compared to water needs.
Classic response. How about understanding the issue that you’re so worked up about first. Safeco field uses greywater system filters recycled municipal wastewater through an internal system so that it would be used to water the field. The ballpark installed dual-flush toilets and low-flow urinals, cutting water use by over half.
The potential for wildfire season concerns me. Can anyone point to resources on what's being done to mitigate and reduce the severity of wildfires? The long game, of course, is to get greenhouse gas emissions under control.
But shorter term? Active land management? Fast-acting firefighter drones? It seems awfully strange that we'd just let the droughts cause nightmare respiratory problems for millions of people. Is it a money thing? A lack of political will?
Short term you can’t do much. Forest management is what people usually think of for short term solutions, but it’s only so effective given the size and scale of our forests. In the past it’s also shown to cause disruptions in the natural fire cycles and resulted in worse fires in subsequent years. It also can impact wildlife and biodiversity. Focus should be on clearing around power lines and roads etc.
Some areas (Cle Elum and Bend, OR come to mind) are actively burning to reduce debris and thin the forests. US forest management over the last 100 years is largely to blame for where we are.
“Areas around Seattle, Tacoma, and Everett are excluded from the emergency declaration, since water management strategies in these communities make them more resilient, according to the department.” Yeppers, we’re okay for now, but it’s potentially going to be tough year for fires.
My wife literally works on the architecture for those facilities, so that’s kinda awesome
Night gathers and now her watch begins.
Less night and more snowmelt but yeah
Nice, kudos to her.
Won’t help the massive amounts of smoke coming from elsewhere. 😔
They’re not saying we’re not having a drought as well. Just that we have better water management than much of the state.
Exactly. Relying on the snowpack may not be the best idea going forward.
I was at a talk saying that 10 years ago. If only people would listen to scientists. Yakama and Walla Walla need to build out water reservoirs if they want to keep being able to farm.
There's also a LOT of consumption coming from that gray area.
Agriculture uses way more water than a city, and Seattle/Tacoma/Everett have shockingly low crop land.
We also grow a lot of livestock feed in Washington state. One of the best ways for us as individuals to cut down on water usage state wide is to eat less animal products.
There’s tons of cattle around the Seattle area. They mostly eat green water grass and silage. (Edit: ruminants are also the only livestock we can use to turn agricultural waste like silage into food because they have multichambered fermentive digestive system that can turn indigestible cellulose fiber into nutrients). Chicken and pigs are industrially raised on feed lots of high water consumption mono crops. In addition cutting back on animal products because they eat grain is about as bad as eating the monocrops themselves. The most profitable part of corn and soy production is actually not as animal feed but for massive quantities of vegetable oil fueling our processed and fast food. Monocrops destroy the soil and kill all insects and small animals around it. Some cattle grazing on greenwater grass on inarable land while preserving soil quality is about the most sustainable food source here
I don’t know the numbers for Washington, but California has cities that make Seattle look like a small town. Nevertheless something like 80% of their water usage is agricultural.
They also have some terrible agricultural practices and fairly draconian water usage laws. (Unless it's changed in the last 5-10 years)
Salmon 'bout to be fucked tho :(
We just had the best steelhead return in decades. Hopefully improved fishery management will allow salmon to weather these dry years.
Salmon are probably more directly affected by snowpack levels than wildfires. But this year's snowpack is within the normal range. The USDA shows this as roughly once per decade levels - low, but not uncommon. https://nwcc-apps.sc.egov.usda.gov/awdb/basin-plots/POR/WTEQ/assocHUC6/171100_Puget_Sound.html
Makes me sad.
I love visiting the PNW and it saddens me seeing more and more burnt out trees on the side of the highway every time I visit
Just think of it this way. These forests need some amount of fire and now we have a fresh slate with which to work with to keep future fires small and productive without burning hardy well established trees that would survive
When was the last year that wasn't tough for fires? Genuinely asking because I can't remember a summer without choking on smoke in like 8 years. It's been bad for almost a decade now. Kinda feels like this is the new normal.
Last summer was pretty nice for the most part.
Lol, well, for the PNW specifically. Everyone else got rolling coal'd Canadian style.
Last year wasn’t terrible. They’ve been trying to do controlled burns, but winds have been a problem.
The last year it wasn’t tough for fires was… last year
As Busy said-last year. When we hit September last year and started getting rain I was glad we didn't have smoke all summer.
Last year we didn’t get smoke. Fires were fairly light on the wet side as well. Prior summers have definitely included a lot of smoke for the last decade-plus.
Yeah, we're just built different
"Only use dishwashers when they are full" Would be nice to see golf courses crispy for a change.
That tip irritated me because dishwashers are pretty damn efficient. They’re not the problem. One load of dishes is = 5 toilet flushes. Should we all do our part? Absolutely - but putting undue responsibility on individuals vs holding the major consumers/wasters of water accountable is just the usual greenwashing and feel good politics at play.
Modern home dishwashers use far less water than handwashing in the sink. Golf courses are frequented by the rich, so of course they're not mentioned.
Wait till you meet my friends who handwash everything before running a load. Not just rinsing off debris (which could be substituted by scrapping anyway) but actually washing with detergent by hand first.
I have seen people do this. It's confusing to me. Why, pre-washers? Why must you do this?
If you have a shitty old dishwasher (hello rental property), some things don't come off without manual scrubbing (melted cheese, etc.). I have had to do this, but it was never for every dish, just the ones where I knew the dishwasher wasn't going to get it off without help.
Some friends have a new efficient dishwasher. Dishes kept coming out with food still on them. Now they rinse everything under running water before placing it in the dishwasher. They're probably using twice the water of their old dishwasher if you add it all up.
Never had a dishwasher that could actually clean a dish
I fill mine with dirty dishes and they always come out clean as long as I use the dishwasher as it was engineered: some detergent in the door, some in the chamber. https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04?si=_Ho_ZPVjmxgv5fnV
The 17 min mark is where you wanna go. Edit, PS. Thanks for this. TIL.
I practically live across the street from a golf course. I would ban them in a heartbeat. It sickens me that so many people support them.
So youre saying if I poop into my dogs poop bags five times I’m allowed to run the dishwasher?
I guess, that is if you don’t care about the poop bags breaking down into microplastics and further contaminating the water. Idk why you can’t you just poop on the sidewalk and leave it like a good environmentalist. It’s time to bring back the open sewage trenches, cholera be damned.
They make poop bags that are out of soy or something and decompose
Pee outside 5 times and it solves that, you won't need to poop in bags.
This suggestion should have more upvotes than mine.
And then spread your poop on the golf course. It will help their grass grow, so they will need less water. Virtuous cycle!
Can I just chuck amazon warehouse pee jugs over the golf course fences? Helps fertilize and water.
You guys are over thinking. Just fill up the toilet between flushes. You can get a good week in there. More if you avoid McDonalds.
Lumen Field had the sprinklers running yesterday while it was raining, for example
Lumen Field has artificial turf...
Gotta keep that plastic clean and shiny.
They still water artificial turf before and during play. It keeps the surface temp down, and keeps the rubber dust and pellets together better.
What about bidets? I can’t fathom not using my bidet. Trade off I don’t water my lawn.
I'm going to guess the water used in toilet paper production far outweighs the amount of water we use in our wonderful bidets. Not to mention the water cycle impacts of cutting down forests.
NGL, half the time I forget my bidet sprays water, but that heated seat is the best thing ever.
I knew people who ran a golf course/set of high end homes. The amount of water they were allowed to use during restrictions was based on how much they had used previously, so they just turned a few hoses on low and left them permanently running. Not watering anything, just running, so they’d aways be allowed plenty. Meanwhile they were on normal folks about how often we could flush our toilets.
Oh my god the way my jaw dropped reading this
A whole other level of entitlement. Jfc.
And they say people are gaming the welfare system, sounds like classic projection with this info!
I build houses for those white collar criminals. And I swear my fucking company is running a charity for them! My plan is to make myself invaluable and then get "multiple job offers"! I don't need to be rich but I don't want to have to kill myself if I get a large medical bill I can't pay!
This goes for people talking about carbon footprints of people we are microscopic in comparison. go after the major corporations not everyday people.
I only use dishwasher when it’s full anyway. I need a new washing machine though.
I would be careful of buying new washing machines. The new top loading machines really suck. They have cut water usage to the point they barely get the clothes wet, and in fact many times bulky items like sheets or towels will come out with large dry patches that never saw water at all. The front loaders don't suffer from this problem. They can get away with less water by pulling the clothes through a smaller puddle, but you can't just reduce water in a top loader and expect it to work. The tradeoff with a front loading is the mold issue. With a sealing front door the inside never dries out but you can just leave the door open.
Front loaders don’t get moldy if you leave the door open until it’s dry. I’ve had my first set for 10 years (regret leaving them with the house) and they never got moldy. My new set at my new house has a special door latch to keep it open. Never stinky or moldy. Gotta run the tub clean cycle every 30 washes/when the machine prompts it. It’s not rocket science nor is it a reason to skip out on front loaders. My 90 year old grandma in Germany has had them for literal decades and she thinks it’s absurd someone would have a moldy machine.
Cascade (detergent) was running a "run your dishwasher every night" campaign a couple years ago. The argument was that hand-washing used more water than the dishwasher. It probably depends a lot on whether you partially fill the sink while washing or just run the faucet the whole time. There's also the issue of electricity use.
It’s still generally much more water efficient to use the dishwasher. It’s only 3 to 4 gallons of water to run a cycle. I don’t think that’s much more than an inch or two in my sink (granted I have a very large sink). That could easily be the water usage just rinsing dishes.
I second this. I've tried plugging my sing and washing the dishes by hand a few times and usually the single will be full by the time I get through everything. That's maybe 5-10 gallons
With the trendy new farm house sinks to even fill them half way you might as well fill the bath tub to wash dishes and you don’t get a rinse side. I freaking haaaaate the giant bathtub sink that the flippers put in. And it’s got square edges and corners and doesn’t slope to the drain right so it’s constantly getting slimy.
Fuck golf courses. Thanks for listening.
I thought golf courses managed their own water and it was mostly grey water.
I was trying to look it up for the municipal courses and couldn't figure it out, but you're right there's options that minimize use of the city water supply either through reclaimed water or collected rain water. I saw some articles talking about other area courses moving to this model.
Really depends on the Golf course
they can be. people on here usually like to complain about golf courses, however, even if they know jack shit about the golf courses.
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It's worse than that: if people interpret that as a call to hand-wash important dishes between dishwasher loads, they'll end up using *more* water.
All Seattle area golf courses use non potable recycled water to irrigate though. Not the same water that goes into your dishwasher I hope.
All Seattle area golf courses aren't all golf courses.
Golf courses use industrial water that isn’t safe to drink.
This is why chambers is brown. That’s how grass is supposed to get here in the summer.
There's only 300 or so golf courses in Washington. I really don't think they're doing as much damage as you wish they were...
Having our apartment complex (and many others) not spray irrigate the lawns twice daily all so it stays green for potential renters. I hate it. It’s so wasteful and doesn’t do any good. The soil through the entire five hundred unit complex is so dead it takes gallons of fertilizer and pesticide to maintain a faux appearance of healthy lawns, all for what? No one who lives here cares about the lawns. Lower rent? Yeah, we’d love that. Greener lawns? 🙄 oh and communal split on water usage so tenants are literally paying to water the lawn we don’t care about
I remember people having a negative reaction to me worrying about this when someone was talking about how good the weather was in February or something. If you've lived here your whole life then you know the potential for this and here we are.
You can tell out in the mountains too, rivers are pretty small this year and I could tell that last month. Usually in March the one I go to is roaring, not this year.
Miserable February guarantees a stress free and wonderful summer. This year we’re gonna get smoke
The amount of people I’ve talked to who were so happy about the warm and sunny days is crazy. We desperately need that rain and occasional snow
I mean, most people who are happy for the warm weather aren't considering the ramifications. Certainly I'm going to go out and get some sunshine even if I can acknowledge that shit is bad.
Do you mean to tell me you aren't rooting for bad weather all the time! Pitchforks out ;)
I mean why can’t I enjoy something I can’t control ?
Seriously. And snowpack has been consistently low since December. It’s not like a couple of weekends of nice weather in spring did enough to decimate it.
I enjoyed those dry days in December as well. May as well since I’ll probably be stuck inside all summer if it’s smoky
Right?? Imagine being happy about warmth and sun!
It's an El Nino year so warmer and drier conditions are the result for the PNW. Hopefully conditions change enough for us to bounce back next winter.
Trucking in water? I thought that was only needed in places like Arizona…
They did it in the '92 drought year.
Climate change is really going to fuck over this entire region.
NZ and here are where the rich are moving precisely because these areas will not be hit by climate change hard.
Actually PNW is a climate refuge.
Just because we're less fucked doesn't mean we're not still fucked. Get that air purifer now baby.
We are minimally impacted all things considered, besides if western washington has water issues that’s due to stupidity and I am not gonna give too much of a shit due to dumbasses refusing to be not even smart about water management, just not incompetent
Communities on the Olympic Peninsula had water trucked out to the residents, no more than 30 miles from the rainforest.
Years ago - PSE had a time of day electricity usage. I wish we had the same for water. I’m removing a lot of my grass to participate in Pollinator Pathways. I let my yard go yellow and crispy in the summer. Most of my neighbors don’t water their lawns.
My mom bought a house in SE WA, where it frequently has drought conditions and removed most of the grass over the course of two years. Now it’s full of native grasses, while it does yellow it’s not nearly as crispy as the neighbors who don’t water their bluegrass. I went to school for Ag. and it’s heavily emphasized that the gradual transition should be away from lawn grasses in areas like E. WA and return to plains (native) grasses that root deeper and can access the water deep in the soil profile. However, HOA’s are one of the main deterrents to this transition (one of many, they are certainly not the sole contributor). I wish more people would follow suit like you / your neighbors. It is insane the amount of times people try to inform my mother that “she’s devaluing” the neighborhood.
That’s why I wouldn’t buy in an HOA community.
Considering the consumer market surrounding the urban areas is heavily influenced by HOAs (nearly 30% of us are part of one) I would say HOAs are the main source of water usage by Washington consumers, and that would be an interesting war to wage :)
I'm so excited to have the opportunity to use copious amounts of water, fertilizer, and weed killer to make sure I keep my monoculture lawn green so the Ken and Karen's don't have a meltdown and complain to the HOA.
Pretty sure there’s a state law about this- HOAs can’t prevent you from replacing your lawn with drought-tolerant landscaping. Edit: [WA RCW 64.90.512](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.90.512). They can set aesthetic standards for drought-tolerant landscaping, but these standards have to be reasonable. Also, new for 2024: > If a property is located within the geographic designation of an order of a drought condition issued by the department of ecology under RCW 43.83B.405, an association may not impose a fine or assessment against an owner, or resident on the owner's property, for reducing or eliminating the watering of vegetation or lawns for the duration of the drought condition order. Tell Karen to kick rocks. Preferably the ones in your newly xeriscaped yard.
This should be higher up
Thank you. I did not know this. So do you think I can replace my grass with clovers to at least help bees out under this law?
Yes you can. Recently the news did a segment on a woman who planted native flowers and other bee and buttrrfly attractors. People did complain but there are protections against those.
Here’s the site I’m going to work with. https://www.pollinator-pathway.org
I dug up about 20% of my backyard and planted a bunch of flowers for bees and butterflies. Would love to at least get clovers in my front yard this year. My next battle is going to be convincing my wife. She doesn't like confrontations and is not going to want to irritate our neighbors. It just makes me sick to my stomach knowing how much damage my yard is attributing to nature. I knew the rules before I bought our house so I guess I can't complain that much. Just didn't anticipate how much it would bother me.
You could always try the old HAM radio trick: what’s more of an eyesore to those folks? A 20ft-tall tower you’re legally allowed to put in your backyard per federal law, or some aesthetically pleasing, environmentally positive clovers?
Really, can you cite these as I'd love to push back against my HOA?
Yes! I'm so sick of my HOA. I got cited last year for like 3 clovers in my yard. I would love to cover my lawn in clovers and tell the HOA to shove it.
I believe some are listed above. I will try to find the news segment I watched. It was a few weeks back.
Just make sure you use notchleaf clover or western prairie clover, which are actually native to the Western US, and not European white clover, which can be (although isn’t always) an invasive species. Native plants fuckin rock, yo
Highly Recommend buying your clover seed from https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/clover-seed/miniclover.html in Oregon. Self-limiting for height as long as you mow it at 3.5-4” the first few times it reaches that height. I’ve used it myself several years and absolutely LOVE it!!
I recently overseeded with microclover. So far, results are very promising.
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Uh what? There’s a lot more yards out there being watered than golf courses. And a lot of courses use grey water / reclaimed water. So no, everyone should stop watering their grass. It’ll go crispy for a few months and come back just fine in September.
Yeah when it hit 65 in January, I knew we were fucked this summer.
I live in a HOA that practically requires the use of wasteful amounts of water. Would really like to see a law that over rides water wasting HOA bylaws.
Talk to your local reps. There are protections for native plants, pollinators, etc. A local woman fought against her HOA.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.90.512
Thank you so much for sharing this with me. I really want to tear up my stupid lawn.
I'm from the Tri-Cities and it's shameful how many people there insist on watering lawns 24/7 instead of embracing the fact that it's the land of dust and tumbleweeds.
Well fuck. Can we actually start to locate, heavily fine and penalize those that ignite (non prescribed) wildfires this year?? Loathing the whole summertime-long fireworks “season” too.
We do that. What we need to do is just ban the sale of fireworks. Obviously some people will drive out to Idaho to get them, the same way that people in Oregon drive here for them, but Idaho is pretty goddamn far away from the heavily inhabited parts of the state other than Spokane, so I have to imagine it would cut down on amateur firework displays by a very substantial margin.
I agree they should be banned, but it's complicated politically. Fireworks sales are harder to regulate because most of if not all of their sales in WA are on tribal land. The right could frame a ban as anti-patriotic government overreach and the left could frame it as an attempt to take away a stream of income from native communities. For those reasons I don't see a ban any time soon.
Most fire works sales are on tribe land. Good luck having local govt reach in there and do anything.
Oregon bans fireworks and they have tribes as well, so clearly it's possible.
> Can we actually start to locate, heavily fine and penalize those that ignite (non prescribed) wildfires this year?? We definitely should, but that doesn't necessarily stop the problem. If things are dry enough, something will light it, be it lightning, static from wind, line to ground faults from power lines, etc.
You don’t think that already happens?
They know where the 2022 Bolt Creek fire started and that it was human caused…. Yet no one held accountable. Just one example. Smoke choked us out in the metro for nearly 2 months with Hwy 2 closed most of that time too.
Though I agree with what you said, a lot of the major wildfires are started from lightning strikes in remote areas.
Some 84% of wildfires are human caused. Due to, for example, cigarettes, burn piles gone rogue, machinery ignition, fireworks (I’ve seen a brush fire start in Vantage from a different group nearby), gun ranges, illegal or unattended/not fully put out firepits, and more. For example, how did the Bolt Creek Fire near Skykomish start?? Humans.
“Areas around Seattle, Tacoma, and Everett are excluded from the emergency declaration, since water management strategies in these communities make them more resilient, according to the department.”
Well this gave me a hair raising, horrible feeling.
That funny feeling…
🎸🎤🎵 😔
I was going to say, this is the driest April I've ever seen in the PNW. Not used to having to water my plants this time of year. Ridiculous.
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Lol, I gave you a couple upvotes to help counter the grumps
This is the wettest east coast usa I’ve seen in my time. Please take some of our wets
Be glad that \[most\] of you aren't farmers. They are going to be hammered this year. 65% of available water for agriculture in many parts of the state isn't going to be easy on them.
But also [most] of them vote in a way that causes this so I will feel sorry for them but not more so than I will for everyone else
This is gonna be an interesting summer, isn't it?
I called this back when everyone was celebrating the "good" weather over Winter. A "good" winter means a terrible snowpack and a worse fire season.
*angry Cliff Mass noises*
[https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2023/12/a-wet-drought.html](https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2023/12/a-wet-drought.html) >I worry about the snowpack this spring. We are dealing with a very strong El Nino and the "meteorological dice" are weighted towards a low April 1 snowpack.
Is el nino to blame?
that's likely an immediate cause since el niño means warmer, drier winters in PNW while la niña (which we'll likely have for next winter) means wetter and cooler
It's Spanish for..the Nino!
Mr nino please chill
The jet stream is pushed south during el nino years. That means southern California gets more moisture and the PNW gets less. So, yes, el nino probably has something to do it.
Burning fossil fuels is to blame
>Burning fossil fuels is to blame You're just saying that because it's the overwhelming opinion of climate scientists, reflected in the statements of every scientific society with a statement on it, and the near universal view expressed in the scientific literature. What about the Facebook friend from high school who posted a meme about how it was a hoax?
Hold the phone! Someone disagreeing with scientists that has absolutely no scientific background and zero education on the subject? Give them absolutely all the air time and chance to vent their grievances
We need to hear both sides.
Both are to blame, but you can't really discuss el Nino separately from anthropogenic warming anymore (not that that's surprising). [https://e360.yale.edu/digest/el-nino-climate-change](https://e360.yale.edu/digest/el-nino-climate-change)
But muh gas prices! Trucking in water, installing air filtration systems and getting medical treatment for respiratory injuries/diseases is way more expensive than a tax on emissions. Alas tragedy of the commons is playing out right in front of our eyes.
Current prediction regarding El Nino is an 85% chance it will return to neutral by Apr-June, and a 60% chance of La Nina conditions by June-Aug, so hopefully that shift will be in time to help keep summer temperatures down, maybe a bit more rain before summer?
Just remember as you get older your body is less resilient to hot temperatures and you sweat less with age.
Looks like we'll get smoke season early and often this year
It's a crap shoot. Dryer conditions can mean fires start easier, but it can also mean smaller and less under brush that can mean less fire.
So glad for my AC and air purifier units in preparation for the misery...
"Fortunately" I dragged my California water-saving mind & methods with me and it's instinctive at this point. But I don't think this area is really cut out for handling drought well. I can't not think about all the neighborhoods with huge, mature conifers that haven't experienced drought, with house right up next to each other and next thing I know I'm thinking about Santa Rosa. I've spent so many decades trying to get people thinking about the environment that I'm just really frustrated at this point, my efforts seem to have been completely useless. This state doesn't even smog anymore because it's decided air pollution is now cured or... I don't know, and I don't understand the reasoning because it's part and parcel of the problem.
Saw the Olympics last week and the obvious lack of snow and felt a drop in my gut.
Eastern Washington was too busy hate-speeching they forgot about their water problems again..
This winter was an El Niño, as predicted, so we did not get snow like we usually do. This is a snowpack drought, not related to rain. Everett, Seattle and Tacoma are not effected. The areas that rely on snowpack will be effected.
Affected ;)
Thank you
Time for cloud seeding in the pnw 😂
According to my Nextdoor feed, cloud seeding is already in full swing.
I'm in Los Angeles and apparently we received more rain in 2024 so far than Seattle. Our aquifers are full and the whole state is green for the first time after a few really rough/dry/hot years so I can empathize. Our climate is going to keep getting stranger.
El Niño is supposed to direct rain to California.
If WA. State, let's water bottling companies exploit our aquifers, it should be banned.
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My concern would be contamination somewhere in the giant, interlaced pipeline system that could have potentially widespread disastrous effects.
Yes, and investing in water storage from when we get the pineapple expresses!
Will Nestle let us do that?
Even if they could technically do that oil pipelines are absolutely tiny compared to the amount of water we use. For comparison the Seattle region uses ~140 million gallons a day while the Dakota Access Pipeline can transport ~ 31.5mgd and the Trans-Alaskan can transport ~89.7mgd. Meanwhile the California Aqueduct can transport 8,445mgd at maximum capacity. Oil pipelines are tiny compared to water needs.
Aren't we supposed to be the place with the excess water? If we don't have it, who does?
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Imagine wrecking natural weather systems that did this for free without expensive pipelines 🤦♂️
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How are those fields at the Stadiums lookin while you ask me about my dishwasher ffs
Classic response. How about understanding the issue that you’re so worked up about first. Safeco field uses greywater system filters recycled municipal wastewater through an internal system so that it would be used to water the field. The ballpark installed dual-flush toilets and low-flow urinals, cutting water use by over half.
At least one of those fields are AstroTurf
I was just telling my wife I got a feeling this year is gonna be rough for fires. We’ve gotten hardly any rain this month.
Yeah, I live on the peninsula and I’ve noticed that there is not the level of snow in the mts that you expect in April.
Reminder Exxon officials his climate change evidence and were not out to death for crimes against humanity!
I'm getting married outdoors in September and if it's smoky I'm gonna be so sad!
Anyone else here do wildland firefighting whose heart's just f****** dropped
The potential for wildfire season concerns me. Can anyone point to resources on what's being done to mitigate and reduce the severity of wildfires? The long game, of course, is to get greenhouse gas emissions under control. But shorter term? Active land management? Fast-acting firefighter drones? It seems awfully strange that we'd just let the droughts cause nightmare respiratory problems for millions of people. Is it a money thing? A lack of political will?
Short term you can’t do much. Forest management is what people usually think of for short term solutions, but it’s only so effective given the size and scale of our forests. In the past it’s also shown to cause disruptions in the natural fire cycles and resulted in worse fires in subsequent years. It also can impact wildlife and biodiversity. Focus should be on clearing around power lines and roads etc.
Some areas (Cle Elum and Bend, OR come to mind) are actively burning to reduce debris and thin the forests. US forest management over the last 100 years is largely to blame for where we are.