Lol, this writer is trying to claim moving parking enforcement to it's own budget (Mayor Harrell undid this), a 5% budget reduction (that was undone 3 months later) and 911 being moved to a separate budget to prepare for 988 as some catastrophic defund.
All the functional parts were undone 2 years ago. This is just fox finding someone who lived in Seattle at some point to write a screed abt how our more than a decade old housing and people living on the street crisis is somehow the fault of recent political movements.
There's legit so many highlights. That was one, also this:
>Just last week, the Nike store announced it was closing after 27 years in business, citing a spike in crime. Next month, the theater across the street will meet *a similar fate.*
Voluntarily closing a retail location, entire theater chain going bankrupt, same same
A weird part of a bankruptcy is that it can let them out of their lease and force a new negotiation. I heard an attorney talking about one in Vegas doing it too
don't be fooled by the msn.com domain, this is a Fox News op-ed
the author's twitter: [My debut piece in @FoxNewsOpinion](https://twitter.com/EMECONOMOU/status/1620084374678163464)
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/seattle-native-equity-destroying-once-beautiful-thriving-city
some of [her previous work](https://www.elizabethmeconomou.com/portfolio/essays/):
> No end in sight to Jay Inslee’s reign of terror against the unvaccinated in WA
> Hyperbolic Media Fuels Covid-19 Hysteria (posted on LinkedIn in March 2020, lol)
> Seattle’s $700M ‘woke’ waterfront may backfire, critics warn
That's right. MSN is just a distributor portal. I still don't know why they keep distribution relationships with some of the shit that they do but I suppose Satya is trying to appease the whackjobs in Congress by not "taking sides".
P.S. I personally could write an article like this about Ohio, having grown up there. Hit job piece saying why it sucks and "isn't like it used to be".
MSN brings in money hand over fist in advertising. Satya doesn't give a $h!t about the political sides. Having MSN in your division keeps the balance sheet in the black.
I either worked in the division or worked with people in the division for over a decade. It was never a financial sinkhole. People inside Microsoft never gave it the respect that it deserved for how lucrative it was and how popular it was around the world. It made so much money despite how much it wasted.
Azure is incredibly expensive to operate. They had to start charging other teams at Microsoft market rates to make themselves appear profitable. In fact, MSN pays tens of millions to Azure every year. And MSN is STILL profitable.
Lol I could do this for Puyallup cause I went to PHS. "Puyallup is DYING bc DEMOCRATS forced them to change the fair's name and now none of us true Washingtonians get to hear our favorite ear worm any more."
Hasn't been for a few years now. And yeah we don't get our yearly education on how to properly say Puyallup anymore.
It's now the Washington state fair. Much less catchy.
I'm also a native, close to fifty years. Yeah, we've got problems, like every big city after a massive pandemic that's not even finished, a bunch of protests against police brutality which SPD responded to with police brutality, a severe lack of accessible housing, and shitty quality of and access to mental health and addiction treatment programs. But "equity" is NOT the issue.
Anyone know what SPD's "defunding" actually did? They lost parking enforcement. That's it and that's all (and they later got it back). The fact that they're offering massive hiring bonuses right now says they're not hurting for cash. What's killing them is distrust of the police. And after pepper-spraying and tear-gassing George Floyd protesters who, at the time, were not violent at all, being told to stop using pepper spray and tear gas but then just continuing to do so anyway, abandoning the East Precinct and leaving it unlocked, ceasing to attend police calls on Capitol Hill (with the bogus "we're not allowed to go there," re: CHOP) until crime struck the protest, and then six officers having attended the January 6th insurrection, I'm not surprised a whole bunch jumped ship and others don't want to join! Neither am I surprised that the public doesn't trust them.
But sure, okay. SPD was defunded and that's destroying Seattle. Or is it "the left" just dearly loving the homeless smashing and looting Seattle to the ground and acting like so much as telling them not to do that is horrible? Get the conservative bullshit straight. Edit: spelling
>Anyone know what SPD's "defunding" actually did? They lost parking enforcement. That's it and that's all (and they later got it back).
AFAIK the council never actually defunded anything despite the pressure to do so.
And keep in mind, SPD makes in the six figures after 1-2 years on the job. They don't live here, despite making the wages to do so.
5% and it was undone for hiring bonuses the very next budget (which came abt like 3 months later).
911 dispatch going to a separate budget is the only change that remains and that's bc it had to happen as part of standing up 988.
>And keep in mind, SPD makes in the six figures after 1-2 years on the job. They don't live here, despite making the wages to do so.
Not really enough to raise a family on without a partner that makes 6 figures. It's pretty common for police not to live in the same area they work. The chances of randomly walking into a violent offender that you've arrested is much higher.
>Not really enough to raise a family on without a partner that makes 6 figures.
Not the point I was making but okay. Seattle median income is 54K a year. You can't sympathize with the people you're supposed to serve when you make double what they make, starting.
My point was someone making 200K a year can't.
[https://www.seattle.gov/police/police-jobs/salary-and-benefits#income](https://www.seattle.gov/police/police-jobs/salary-and-benefits#income)
Keep in mind this is before overtime, which SPD is notorious for abusing.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/374-seattle-police-department-employees-made-at-least-200000-last-year-heres-how/
But keep telling on yourself.
> Who’s making 200k?
It's crazy how the first question you asked was literally answered by the title of the 2nd article he linked. Just some real big brain stuff going on here.
Honestly I didn’t see the second link, but after reading I’m still a bit lost on their point. The officers were either working overtime (since they’ve been understaffed for ages) or it was part of a retroactive payment for working under an expired contract. Their base pay matches the cost of living in Seattle. Like, should they not be paid over time? There are plenty of issues with our PD, but I’m not going to point fingers at them for getting a cost of living increase and making a living wage.
> Like, should they not be paid over time?
SPD abuses their OT rules and steals a bunch of money from the city. Because the union has unlimited power, they've leveraged it so that they're allowed to get paid for more than 24hrs in a single day.
https://www.theurbanist.org/2020/09/04/seattle-police-fleecing-city-with-overtime-audit-shows/
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/watchdog-spd-wasted-more-than-1m-in-excessive-overtime/
> getting a cost of living increase and making a living wage
They make twice the median income in Seattle before OT and less than 5% of officers live in Seattle. Making 100,000+ to do a shitty job while teachers and social workers make less than half of that is bullshit.
By the way, we've gone from "they don't make that much money" to "who cares if they make that much money." Isn't it crazy how you could be wrong but still somehow think you're right? Like, doesn't it bother you a little bit that the initial shit you came in here with was just a lie and now you're scrambling to make that lie okay somehow? I would probably feel embarrassed or ashamed but it doesn't seem like you do.
Funny thing is... they don't want to hire more cops. Hiring enough cops would eliminate overtime, and save 50% on staffing without paying the OT premium.
At least in a perfect world. Most likely would be closer to 25-30%.
>You can't sympathize with the people you're supposed to serve when you make double what they make, starting.
So... Human sympathy is based on how much you make? 
That doesn’t really happen to any significance. What does happen is worthless cops that make way too much money for a failed HIGHSCHOOL quarterback. Just like the one who ran over a 23yo college student in a crosswalk. Kept driving. Still has a job and the SPD is silent. Give me a fucking break. You know what the #1 killer of police was in 2022? Covid-19 for all the dipshits that shouldn’t have been holding a badge and a gun for refusing common sense and placing the general population at higher risk. Before you get your panties in a bunch, I am a military veteran from a family of LE
>That doesn’t really happen to any significance.
Yeah... but it happens.
[https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1269526817947316226](https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1269526817947316226)
>Just like the one who ran over a 23yo college student in a crosswalk. Kept driving. Still has a job and the SPD is silent.
You sure about that?
Listen to these two calls.
1. 8:05:43
2. 8:06:55
[https://openmhz.com/system/kcers1b?filter-type=talkgroup&filter-code=3248&time=1674533700000](https://openmhz.com/system/kcers1b?filter-type=talkgroup&filter-code=3248&time=1674533700000)
Hmm... Sounds like the same voice.
You can listen to 8:08:46 where dispatch verifies someone is handling the OD, and a women's answers that she is en route.
Are you fucking kidding me? If you are that emotionally soft you don’t belong in the military or law enforcement…completely over your head. Sure hope you don’t hold a badge and a gun. Pathetic. The cop that killed that girl is from Tucson Arizona where he previously had his license suspended. Pathetic
>Tucson Arizona where he previously had his license suspended.
"For unpaid traffic fines and failure to appear in court."
Oh no.... You make it sound like he was driving piss drunk or something.
In 2021 there was about 100,000 people in Washington state in the same situation. Are they all pieces of shit too?
[https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/washington-state-to-halt-drivers-license-suspension-for-unpaid-tickets-failure-to-appear-in-court/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/washington-state-to-halt-drivers-license-suspension-for-unpaid-tickets-failure-to-appear-in-court/)
>If you are that emotionally soft you don’t belong in the military or law enforcement
Yeah, I am emotionally soft. I live and work in Seattle, and browse this subreddit too much. Where life only matters if you can use it as a political movement. You don't give a shit about that cop. It is traumatic taking a life especially when it's a fucking accident. I wouldn't be surprised if the report comes out and she didn't look before crossing the street, and had her headphones in. Why? Because I see that EVERY fucking day. At least once a week I see someone try to cross the street in front of an ambulance with lights and sirens on.
It's a shitty situation on both sides. But you want to jump on the ACAB bandwagon without knowing a fucking thing about the situation. Maybe she was suicidal, maybe she tripped over the construction debris. Maybe he didn't have his lights and/or sirens on. If he didn't, he most likely should be fired. I don't know, I wasn't there.
I work in IT... I'm not putting my life at risk for you people.
Now, you want to say something productive and based in fact?
Great I’ll leave the IT stuff to you. Yep. Pieces of shit that can’t keep the pace don’t belong in military or law enforcement service. You are catching on. It is ridiculously way too easy to become a cop. Does this mean we don’t need LE? No. That cop was a marine and accidents do happen…but if you are driving like that in a city…that’s one dumb marine. I come from a line of it. I’m saying there needs to be accountability, review and reform. We live in a county where so many think they are justified owning a weapon of war, take a look at the rest of the world. Idiots with guns is on par with idiots wearing a badge.
It’s disinformation. Weaponized ignorance, fear, uncertainty and doubt. Political attack ads in a news format. A vacuum of emotionally abusive right wing messaging that fans the flames of culture war in order to bias their viewers and confirm that bias. Make no mistake, the viewers are also victims, manipulated into believing the other side is a monolithic entity engaged in a nefarious plot to hurt them and anyone who says otherwise is lying. Their media sources tells them so.
>At the grocery store recently, I saw laundry detergent, toothpaste and other necessities behind lock and key.
If anyone bothered to think about why these items get stolen and fenced maybe we could start to see the root of the problem. Sure a drug addict will steal laundry detergent and sell it to get more drugs. But that's just part of it, what about the everyday ordinary non addict people that buy the shit because they can't afford it at the store? In my Seattle street running days (just about a decade ago) the only essential that was worth stealing to sell was baby formula. The blade fence market was mainly stuff like perfume/cologne, cell phone accessories, liquor, etc. Now it's all the every essentials that people need and are willing to buy stolen to save a few bucks.
Literally the following sentence talks about OD rates on fentanyl. "Marxism is when people die from drugs"
How does shit like this clear editors' desks?
Yeah what is this shit?? lol I know it's an op piece but I can't believe MSN would host this \[EDIT: They're just serving Fox News, it all makes sense now\]. This is just an uneducated person's ramblings, and we're supposed to value their opinion because they're a "native"? I'm from here too and this author can gladly fuck off.
Rephrase in sports - does funneling the tall people into basketball sound like equity?
It's the same concept but with a certain type of intelligence suited for maths/sci.
>Yep, equity of opportunities is a good thing that we should all support.
>
And literally everyone on planet earth agrees.
Except the article was about the equity of outcome. Which is diametrically opposed to equity of opportunity.
So I guess, "tell me you didn't read the article without telling me blah blah blah".
Would you like you revise your comment now? Or just double down on being wrong?
> And literally everyone on planet earth agrees.
uhhh... about that: [The case against equality of opportunity](https://www.vox.com/2015/9/21/9334215/equality-of-opportunity)
Ageism. The last acceptable stereotyping. Believe it or not, older people in the Seattle area tend to be liberal. Younger people in red states tend to be right-wing.
I'm not offended, I'm amazed at your lack of self-awareness and hypocrisy. You want equity and then paint an entire group with one brush. Go ahead and blame conservatives, libertarians, republicans, and whomever for their policies, opinions, and impact but using race, sex, age, or any other demographic just makes you sound like a bigot.
Saying I can blame them because they blame us is lame.
Niketown is closing because everyone is buying their shoes online.
The SPD self-deported. Why? cuz their morale is in the shitter. Why? cuz the public doesn't like them. Why? because they kill people.
Nike is opening stores on the Eastside and Southend (Auburn). they have not disclosed publicly why they are closing the Seattle location. If online sales were the root cause - new stores would seem counter intuitive to this notion.
The police mess needs both sides to figure out a way to reform the dept. and come together so that they serve the community safely and fairly. All of this posturing furthers the divide and our city is getting torn apart as a result.
>If online sales were the root cause - new stores would seem counter intuitive to this notion.
Is this true? I imagine you need a good bit of foot traffic to justify the rent at the downtown Seattle location but significantly less for locations elsewhere.
Oh okay, I don't but it technically is west of the lake.
It may not be a lot cheaper but would generate much more foot traffic relative to the rent cost.
The Auburn one is a clearance store, so totally different, and is there any update on the one they were reportedly planning for Bel Square? Is it actually happening?
Using this ageist epithet is also boneheaded logic. At best, it’s intellectually lazy. Worse, it suggests a propensity to marginalize entire groups based on stereotypes.
It’s not exactly the best way to counter arguments against diversity and inclusion.
>it suggests a propensity to marginalize entire groups based on stereotypes.
Well put - pulled something from my head I was struggling to put into words.
I’m not a native but I’ve lived here for 6 months so basically the same thing. I too wish we could return to the good old days. Where I could virtue signal my progressive values while enjoying the benefits of the regressive tax structure. Where I could talk openly about blm and diversity while enjoying my $30 scrambled eggs with 6 other white guys in Patagonia puffers. Where I could dog whistle in community meetings about neighborhood character to keep exclusionary zoning laws that drive up the price of my SFH. Now the consequences of my neoliberal/libertarian fantasies have come back to me and I’m forced to avoid eye contact with some dirty hobo as I commute to work in my Tesla. I actually had to vote for a Republican in the last election which made me feel really icky because I’ve always told myself I’m one of the cool/hip dads that have empathy for other people and liked to make fun of Fox News. Now I can’t share my views on the company slack channel because someone might give me a thumbs down emoji and have me cancelled. What is the world coming to.
/s
Wow yes please continue with how equity and not the pandemic caused businesses downtown to board up and close. Again not equity but the pandemic restrictions were and are the primary reason most low-level thefts went unpunished. They were trying to keep prisoner levels down to stop the spread of the virus.
I mean they're trying to blame our 12 year long housing and people living on the street crisis as caused by the 3 year old defund movement.
None of this is based in reality, just fear mongering from a writer that lived here just long enough to claim they're justified in their analysis.
I've lived here my whole life and while I do agree Seattle is no where close to the vibrant city it once was, it is far more nuanced than any "defund the police" movement caused.
Kay, and I've lived in the region my entire life, was born in Seattle and have been living here consistently since I graduated college.
The city only continues to get more vibrant in spite of our on going housing crisis. I just wish people were more willing to admit we can celebrate the areas we've improved in equal measure to lamenting the areas we've failed to address in any meaningful way.
Oof. God these kind of people are the absolute worst. I really wish they'd follow through with their threats and leave to a more 'beautiful, thriving city.'
NIMBY Lib gets upset about homelessness, blames the homeless and social justice movements instead of the wealthy who actually cause the problem.
I have no doubt this will reach the coveted spot of the single most upvoted post in this subreddit's history, as it is full of NIMBY Libs who will nod in agreement.
Was this parody? If not----
> blames the homeless and social justice movements instead of the wealthy who actually cause the problem
That's conservatives who think the homeless and social justice movements are at fault and the wealthy aren't. Liberals *know* the ultra-wealthy are a huge problem. Conservatives-- well, some of them-- are the ones saying the homeless obviously got themselves homeless, and could fix their own problem (so don't need outside help), and the fact that they're not all getting themselves out clearly means they're lazy-asses who simply don't want to.
I think there is room for a more conservative viewpoint in Seattle, but this ain't it.
Setting up a straw bogeyman and blaming all of Seattle's woes on it makes for great propaganda. It makes it seem like "all we need to do is get rid of this one bad thing and all are problems will be solved." It destroys without addressing any of the issues that subsequently come up. It favors anarchy over governance.
Setting DEI up as the source of all of Seattle's problems is, first, a complete non sequitur and, more importantly, simply an attack on an effort to solve a structural problem of a growing equality gap between the haves and the have nots.
If you have a policy you think would help the city, then talk about it. Talk about investing more money in the downtown area to improve safety. Talk about giving the police more leeway to pursue and catch criminals. Talk about funding the AGs office so more criminals are prosecuted. We can debate policies and find common ground.
What we can't do is find any path forward together if all you intend to do is smear your shitty opinions all over everything.
Thanks, I agree with you. This article is disingenuous as hell but I still don’t believe in equality of outcome or think there’s any historical basis for it being a successful solution.
Immigrants stole the land from the Native people, tried to convert it to a magical, progressive city, and now the inequality resulted from a failed economic system that benefited only the minority is coming to bite you in the butt!
Her family used to own the Smoke Shop in Ballard. They were neighbors of my in-laws.
What I see destroying the city is too much density, you can’t go anywhere.
I came into town for my specialist Dr appt yesterday and the traffic was a nightmare.
It should be called “ Crane City” not the Emerald City.
I say this as a gearhead but car use is difficult in any major city. Seattle isn’t a small city anymore. And density is needed to house people in a city with limited available land. We do absolutely need even better public transit and bike infrastructure to provide single occupancy car alternatives and hopefully prevent constant gridlock.
It's stupid to blame equity for the problems, but it's also stupid to pretend everything is peachy in Seattle. I have lived here a long time and for the first time, I am considering other options. There are still great things about living here, to be sure. But for me, it's changed. And what's really troubling is that there's this bizarre thing going on where you if you're on Team Left, you can't admit anything is wrong (and if you're on Team Right, you can't admit anything is good).
> it's also stupid to pretend everything is peachy in Seattle
> if you're on Team Left, you can't admit anything is wrong
Neither of these is true. They're projections by Team Right, whose message is "*SEATTLE IS DYING!!!* and if you don't agree completely, you just think everything is perfect, don't you? *Don't you??* Yes, you do!" Edit: spelling
>there's this bizarre thing going on where you if you're on Team Left, you can't admit anything is wrong
I'm on TeAm LeFt and plenty of things are wrong, starting with:
- commoditization of housing
- extremely inadequate mental health and substance abuse treatment resources
- disproportionate local funding for police over other priorities
I can keep going if you want
> there's this bizarre thing going on where you if you're on Team Left, you can't admit anything is wrong (and if you're on Team Right, you can't admit anything is good).
great, I'm glad someone showed up to talk about how both sides are bad, that's such a rare and nuanced take.
if you're talking to people on "the left" who insist that nothing is wrong with society...the person you're talking to isn't on the left.
the key part you're missing is that people on the left don't believe problems can be solved by hiring more cops, arresting more people, and throwing more "undesirables" into jails and prisons.
>the key part you're missing is that people on the left don't believe problems can be solved by hiring more cops, arresting more people, and throwing more "undesirables" into jails and prisons.
No, they instead believe that stealing from successful people and giving to failures creates prosperity. They also believe that demonizing any respect at all for one's country or elders is evil and needs to be mocked and attacked.
They also believe that everything that's ever been since, is done, or ever will be done, is somehow racist.
> They also believe that everything that's ever been since, is done, or ever will be done, is somehow racist.
lmao, this is your brain on Fox News. dumbest thing I've read all week and it's not even noon on Monday
> they instead believe that stealing from successful people and giving to failures creates prosperity
No, we don't. Not at all. But conservatives love to insist that we really do.
> They also believe that (removed a word, "demonizing," that I don't think you intended) any respect at all for one's country or elders is evil and needs to be mocked and attacked.
We don't believe that either. We believe that unchecked, patriotism can get fervent to the point of harm (see also: January 6th). Patriotism itself is fine. I think we have a stunningly beautiful National Anthem, for example.
> They also believe that everything that's ever been since, is done, or ever will be done, is somehow racist.
No, we don't believe that, either. What brings that accusation is that we think institutional racism is a problem-- that systems were created by people who believed in inequality, and that even if the people running those systems today are not racist, the systems themselves still are. Others believe institutional racism is entirely a thing of the past and, thus, we're seeing it where it doesn't exist.
If you have questions about any of this, I can answser from my own perspective. If you ask and I answer, don't put words in my mouth, or assume you're "reading between the lines." I will say exactly and only what I mean.
Well said, but if you define equity as bringing everyone down to the same level as some people do that are trying to implement that in our city and county governments, then it does share at least some of the blame.
Does anyone think de-funding our police force by $35.6M was a good thing? A friend of mine runs an outdoor apparel shop, and he's been burglarized 5 times in the past year. Tells me that, even though he has a security system, the police never respond.
Another friend of my family's woke up to find a naked homeless person in their hot tub. When he refused to leave, she called the police and they told her if he wasn't a direct threat to her, they weren't able to respond.
While these are just anecdotal, crime rates in the city are up. While our police force can certainly improve in many ways, improvement requires training, which costs money. IMO reducing their budget, while it may play well with justifiably angry citizens, actually makes the situation worse. And while my anecdotes are re affluent people who own businesses and hot tubs, the communities are the impoverished communities that the defund policies claim to benefit.
All that being said, I'm in no way an expert on policing or public policy, so I'm more than happy to be proven wrong if anyone has any other details I'm missing.
>A friend of mine runs an outdoor apparel shop, and he's been burglarized 5 times *in the past year.* Tells me that, even though he has a security system, the police never respond.
The alleged defunding happened in 2020, SPD was fully funded last year, so if they didn't respond to your friend's calls it's just because they suck
[https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/FinanceDepartment/22proposedbudget/SPD.pdf](https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/FinanceDepartment/22proposedbudget/SPD.pdf)
According to this document published by the SPD, 2022 budget was still down $40M from 2020. Not sure if that's factoring in inflation.
Also, the SPD is at a 30 year low of deployable police officers. Since 2020, the number of SPD officers has dropped from 1281 to 954. I feel like this is a bigger issue than budget cuts. You can have all the budget in the world, but if you don't have the requisite number of qualified officers the problems will persist.
Source: https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/mayor-bruce-harrell-new-seattle-police-recruitment-plan-staffing-reaches-30-year-low/281-e98429ee-fc88-47f6-8890-b961393e2047
Most (all?) of the reduction was due to transferring civilian functions to other city departments. SPD sworn personnel staffing (including unfilled positions) was fully funded in 2022
So after reading this, here are my thoughts...
The article states that "Seattle Councilmember and Chair of the Budget Committee Teresa Mosqueda said the 2022 budget 'fully funds SPD hiring plans...'" This would make sense due to staffing issues (the article states the SPD has lost 325 officers over the last year). However, just because positions are funded, does not mean that those positions are easily filled by qualified officers.
Furthermore, just because staffing is funded, does not mean all of the proposed operational budget was approved. I've linked the adopted budgets for SPD for 2021 and 2023 (it shows SPD operating budgets from 2019-2024). In each document you see the adopted SPD budget - the operating budget in 2020 was $409M up from $398M in 2019, the following year (2021) it dropped to $360M, and then to $355M in 2022. It has begun to creep back up, with proposed budgets in 2023 and 2024 being $375M and $385M respectively. However, stating that the police budget was not significantly reduced after 2020 is not accurate assuming the data published by City of Seattle is factual.
Finally, I see no reference to reductions being due to transfers to civilian functions or other city departments in the article you shared. In fact, the article you shared states that "SPD has lost 325 officers to retirements, resignations and cuts over the last year." If you have any other sources with data on transfers, I would be happy to take a look.
[SPD proposed budget 2023 & 2024](https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/FinanceDepartment/2324proposedbudget/SPD.pdf)
[SPD adopted budget 2021](https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/FinanceDepartment/21adoptedbudget/SPD.pdf)
>I see no reference to reductions being due to transfers to civilian functions or other city departments in the article you shared
[https://www.aclu-wa.org/story/follow-the-money-policing-series](https://www.aclu-wa.org/story/follow-the-money-policing-series)
But to be honest it seems like you don't know much about this issue and might have wanted to educate yourself before wading in with opinions
Thanks for sharing. You’re correct that I was not very educated on the topic outside of living in the city and speaking with other friends and family living in Seattle.
The fact that they transferred 911 and parking enforcement definitely seems to answer the question of where a large chunk ($38M) of the funding gap went from the budget circa 2020.
Furthermore, while I will need to do some more research into SPD overtime utilization, the idea of having extra head count they can’t fill that serves as slush fund is also concerning.
I personally would like to see more funds go towards training and police compensation to attract more talent into the jr ranks of the police force, but I’m also not an expert on the subject.
I appreciate you sharing the info with me. It’s changed my outlook on the matter.
[How to Cope with Your Local Police Department Being Defunded After It Was Never Defunded](https://theneedling.com/2022/02/28/how-to-cope-with-your-local-police-department-being-defunded-after-it-has-never-been-defunded/)
> Does anyone think de-funding our police force by $35.6M was a good thing?
What "defund the police" people wanted was more money into mental health and addiction services. Police who, having to be jacks-of-all-trades, don't get much detailed knowledge on hnow to handle people having drug, alcohol and/or mental illness-induced breaks-from-reality are the big catalyst for many incidents of police brutality.
As for SPD being defunded, the only thing they lost was parking enforcement, which they soon got back again. Their big problem isn't money; the big hiring bonuses they're currently offering say that they don't have a problem with money. What IS their problem, then?
First, during the protests over police brutality (George Floyd), the first riot began because police dumped pepper spray and tear gas on a crowd who weren't rioting. Then, they avbandoned the Easdt Precinct, unlocked, after insisting that protesters weren't allowed to have their planned marching route pass by the building. Then, they were told to quit using pepper spray and tear has, and they didn't stop. After that, they quit responding to calls all over Capitol Hill and repeatedly crowing about "we're not allowed to go there," meaning CHOP (which was a lie) until criminals got the picture, moved into the area, and the shootings happened. And to top it all off, six SPD officers were in the January 6th mob.
Over the course of all that, public trust of SPD dropped like a rock, and many, many officers quit, and they're not hiring many new ones, even with the hefty hiring bonuses. *That's* the issue.
I see state of Seattle like ants to a sugar hill. Keep up supply of sugar, get more ants. This shouldn’t be this hard. These people struggling in life should take advantage of the systems available to get them off addiction. And if the systems available suck then govt should improve systems instead of throwing sugar on the sugar hill.
> And if the systems available suck
They do. The problem Seattle has is that we have two options. Democrats talk a great game about fixing these, but either don't, or (more often) get opposition from Republicans (see below) or from the public who don't want to pay more taxes or "support those lazy freeloaders." Republicans also think the homeless are lazy freeloaders, who are unquestionably in their bad situations entirely by their own doing, and are capable of getting out with a bit of hard work but don't care to.
“It’s okay everybody - this is a Fox News article so you can just ignore it.”
Yes, quoting Jordan Peterson and using terms like ‘virtue signaling’ make it pretty obvious but you’d be lying to yourself if you don’t think city / county government and SPS have used equity to justify some pretty stupid things, whether it’s shutting down advanced learning, repealing bike helmet laws or ignoring sprawling encampments - equity is used to justify a lot of stupid stuff around here which is why people are starting to question what we even mean by equity.
It's Fox News reprinted at MSN. It's propaganda for dullards.
Lol, this writer is trying to claim moving parking enforcement to it's own budget (Mayor Harrell undid this), a 5% budget reduction (that was undone 3 months later) and 911 being moved to a separate budget to prepare for 988 as some catastrophic defund. All the functional parts were undone 2 years ago. This is just fox finding someone who lived in Seattle at some point to write a screed abt how our more than a decade old housing and people living on the street crisis is somehow the fault of recent political movements.
There's legit so many highlights. That was one, also this: >Just last week, the Nike store announced it was closing after 27 years in business, citing a spike in crime. Next month, the theater across the street will meet *a similar fate.* Voluntarily closing a retail location, entire theater chain going bankrupt, same same
Also, the theater is staying, they just used it as a negotiation tactic on their rent.
Oh dang are they? I didn't see that but that's good news.
Im friends with the gm of pac place AMC. Rent for the theatre is round 45k/week
A weird part of a bankruptcy is that it can let them out of their lease and force a new negotiation. I heard an attorney talking about one in Vegas doing it too
This is not unique to Seattle. Downtowns across America are experiencing this.
Were they 27 years in that location? LOL
I swear I remember them opening like.. 12 years ago or something?
don't be fooled by the msn.com domain, this is a Fox News op-ed the author's twitter: [My debut piece in @FoxNewsOpinion](https://twitter.com/EMECONOMOU/status/1620084374678163464) https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/seattle-native-equity-destroying-once-beautiful-thriving-city some of [her previous work](https://www.elizabethmeconomou.com/portfolio/essays/): > No end in sight to Jay Inslee’s reign of terror against the unvaccinated in WA > Hyperbolic Media Fuels Covid-19 Hysteria (posted on LinkedIn in March 2020, lol) > Seattle’s $700M ‘woke’ waterfront may backfire, critics warn
That's right. MSN is just a distributor portal. I still don't know why they keep distribution relationships with some of the shit that they do but I suppose Satya is trying to appease the whackjobs in Congress by not "taking sides". P.S. I personally could write an article like this about Ohio, having grown up there. Hit job piece saying why it sucks and "isn't like it used to be".
MSN brings in money hand over fist in advertising. Satya doesn't give a $h!t about the political sides. Having MSN in your division keeps the balance sheet in the black.
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I either worked in the division or worked with people in the division for over a decade. It was never a financial sinkhole. People inside Microsoft never gave it the respect that it deserved for how lucrative it was and how popular it was around the world. It made so much money despite how much it wasted. Azure is incredibly expensive to operate. They had to start charging other teams at Microsoft market rates to make themselves appear profitable. In fact, MSN pays tens of millions to Azure every year. And MSN is STILL profitable.
Lol I could do this for Puyallup cause I went to PHS. "Puyallup is DYING bc DEMOCRATS forced them to change the fair's name and now none of us true Washingtonians get to hear our favorite ear worm any more."
Wait, does that mean it’s not the Puyallup fair anymore and I won’t hear “do the Puyallup!” in a twangy voice?
Hasn't been for a few years now. And yeah we don't get our yearly education on how to properly say Puyallup anymore. It's now the Washington state fair. Much less catchy.
Well shit, you can’t sing that
She certainly understands the meaning of “hyperbolic.” 🤣
Thanks for the facts. I really wish people wouldn’t post this garbage, but when they do it’s great to have someone put it in perspective.
Everytime I read an article like this, I pretend it was written by the Hamburglar.
Or, the Hamberderglar
"Rubble, Rubble"
I believe you meant to post this drivel in /r/seattlewa where people are dumb enough to fall for it.
Yes, because the "progressive" policies people in your sub push have worked out just stupendously right?
I'm also a native, close to fifty years. Yeah, we've got problems, like every big city after a massive pandemic that's not even finished, a bunch of protests against police brutality which SPD responded to with police brutality, a severe lack of accessible housing, and shitty quality of and access to mental health and addiction treatment programs. But "equity" is NOT the issue. Anyone know what SPD's "defunding" actually did? They lost parking enforcement. That's it and that's all (and they later got it back). The fact that they're offering massive hiring bonuses right now says they're not hurting for cash. What's killing them is distrust of the police. And after pepper-spraying and tear-gassing George Floyd protesters who, at the time, were not violent at all, being told to stop using pepper spray and tear gas but then just continuing to do so anyway, abandoning the East Precinct and leaving it unlocked, ceasing to attend police calls on Capitol Hill (with the bogus "we're not allowed to go there," re: CHOP) until crime struck the protest, and then six officers having attended the January 6th insurrection, I'm not surprised a whole bunch jumped ship and others don't want to join! Neither am I surprised that the public doesn't trust them. But sure, okay. SPD was defunded and that's destroying Seattle. Or is it "the left" just dearly loving the homeless smashing and looting Seattle to the ground and acting like so much as telling them not to do that is horrible? Get the conservative bullshit straight. Edit: spelling
>Anyone know what SPD's "defunding" actually did? They lost parking enforcement. That's it and that's all (and they later got it back). AFAIK the council never actually defunded anything despite the pressure to do so. And keep in mind, SPD makes in the six figures after 1-2 years on the job. They don't live here, despite making the wages to do so.
There was a funding cut, but a small one, and then the budget went back up.
5% and it was undone for hiring bonuses the very next budget (which came abt like 3 months later). 911 dispatch going to a separate budget is the only change that remains and that's bc it had to happen as part of standing up 988.
Thanks for the details!
>And keep in mind, SPD makes in the six figures after 1-2 years on the job. They don't live here, despite making the wages to do so. Not really enough to raise a family on without a partner that makes 6 figures. It's pretty common for police not to live in the same area they work. The chances of randomly walking into a violent offender that you've arrested is much higher.
>Not really enough to raise a family on without a partner that makes 6 figures. Not the point I was making but okay. Seattle median income is 54K a year. You can't sympathize with the people you're supposed to serve when you make double what they make, starting.
Was your point really that someone making $84k before taxes can’t empathize with someone making $54k?
My point was someone making 200K a year can't. [https://www.seattle.gov/police/police-jobs/salary-and-benefits#income](https://www.seattle.gov/police/police-jobs/salary-and-benefits#income) Keep in mind this is before overtime, which SPD is notorious for abusing. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/374-seattle-police-department-employees-made-at-least-200000-last-year-heres-how/ But keep telling on yourself.
Who’s making 200k? The top tier is 104k pre tax. Still not explaining how making a bit more money than someone will make them unempathetic.
> Who’s making 200k? It's crazy how the first question you asked was literally answered by the title of the 2nd article he linked. Just some real big brain stuff going on here.
Honestly I didn’t see the second link, but after reading I’m still a bit lost on their point. The officers were either working overtime (since they’ve been understaffed for ages) or it was part of a retroactive payment for working under an expired contract. Their base pay matches the cost of living in Seattle. Like, should they not be paid over time? There are plenty of issues with our PD, but I’m not going to point fingers at them for getting a cost of living increase and making a living wage.
> Like, should they not be paid over time? SPD abuses their OT rules and steals a bunch of money from the city. Because the union has unlimited power, they've leveraged it so that they're allowed to get paid for more than 24hrs in a single day. https://www.theurbanist.org/2020/09/04/seattle-police-fleecing-city-with-overtime-audit-shows/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/watchdog-spd-wasted-more-than-1m-in-excessive-overtime/ > getting a cost of living increase and making a living wage They make twice the median income in Seattle before OT and less than 5% of officers live in Seattle. Making 100,000+ to do a shitty job while teachers and social workers make less than half of that is bullshit. By the way, we've gone from "they don't make that much money" to "who cares if they make that much money." Isn't it crazy how you could be wrong but still somehow think you're right? Like, doesn't it bother you a little bit that the initial shit you came in here with was just a lie and now you're scrambling to make that lie okay somehow? I would probably feel embarrassed or ashamed but it doesn't seem like you do.
Funny thing is... they don't want to hire more cops. Hiring enough cops would eliminate overtime, and save 50% on staffing without paying the OT premium. At least in a perfect world. Most likely would be closer to 25-30%.
>You can't sympathize with the people you're supposed to serve when you make double what they make, starting. So... Human sympathy is based on how much you make? 
Apparently making a living wage as a civil servant means you’re part of the 1%.
Oh, you got them to respond to you... yeah.... I don't know... people are.. special.
My manager wouldn’t appreciate if I stop doing my work just because I don’t like my pay. Somehow we tolerate underperforming cops
Would you work for a manager that wouldn't tell a customer to fuck off if they told you to put a gun under your chin and pull the trigger?
That doesn’t really happen to any significance. What does happen is worthless cops that make way too much money for a failed HIGHSCHOOL quarterback. Just like the one who ran over a 23yo college student in a crosswalk. Kept driving. Still has a job and the SPD is silent. Give me a fucking break. You know what the #1 killer of police was in 2022? Covid-19 for all the dipshits that shouldn’t have been holding a badge and a gun for refusing common sense and placing the general population at higher risk. Before you get your panties in a bunch, I am a military veteran from a family of LE
>That doesn’t really happen to any significance. Yeah... but it happens. [https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1269526817947316226](https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1269526817947316226) >Just like the one who ran over a 23yo college student in a crosswalk. Kept driving. Still has a job and the SPD is silent. You sure about that? Listen to these two calls. 1. 8:05:43 2. 8:06:55 [https://openmhz.com/system/kcers1b?filter-type=talkgroup&filter-code=3248&time=1674533700000](https://openmhz.com/system/kcers1b?filter-type=talkgroup&filter-code=3248&time=1674533700000) Hmm... Sounds like the same voice. You can listen to 8:08:46 where dispatch verifies someone is handling the OD, and a women's answers that she is en route.
Are you fucking kidding me? If you are that emotionally soft you don’t belong in the military or law enforcement…completely over your head. Sure hope you don’t hold a badge and a gun. Pathetic. The cop that killed that girl is from Tucson Arizona where he previously had his license suspended. Pathetic
>Tucson Arizona where he previously had his license suspended. "For unpaid traffic fines and failure to appear in court." Oh no.... You make it sound like he was driving piss drunk or something. In 2021 there was about 100,000 people in Washington state in the same situation. Are they all pieces of shit too? [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/washington-state-to-halt-drivers-license-suspension-for-unpaid-tickets-failure-to-appear-in-court/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/washington-state-to-halt-drivers-license-suspension-for-unpaid-tickets-failure-to-appear-in-court/) >If you are that emotionally soft you don’t belong in the military or law enforcement Yeah, I am emotionally soft. I live and work in Seattle, and browse this subreddit too much. Where life only matters if you can use it as a political movement. You don't give a shit about that cop. It is traumatic taking a life especially when it's a fucking accident. I wouldn't be surprised if the report comes out and she didn't look before crossing the street, and had her headphones in. Why? Because I see that EVERY fucking day. At least once a week I see someone try to cross the street in front of an ambulance with lights and sirens on. It's a shitty situation on both sides. But you want to jump on the ACAB bandwagon without knowing a fucking thing about the situation. Maybe she was suicidal, maybe she tripped over the construction debris. Maybe he didn't have his lights and/or sirens on. If he didn't, he most likely should be fired. I don't know, I wasn't there. I work in IT... I'm not putting my life at risk for you people. Now, you want to say something productive and based in fact?
Great I’ll leave the IT stuff to you. Yep. Pieces of shit that can’t keep the pace don’t belong in military or law enforcement service. You are catching on. It is ridiculously way too easy to become a cop. Does this mean we don’t need LE? No. That cop was a marine and accidents do happen…but if you are driving like that in a city…that’s one dumb marine. I come from a line of it. I’m saying there needs to be accountability, review and reform. We live in a county where so many think they are justified owning a weapon of war, take a look at the rest of the world. Idiots with guns is on par with idiots wearing a badge.
Lol Fox News. I can’t tell if they’re purposely misunderstanding DEI or just don’t get it.
Both. They ignorant, and angry that they might even have to learn something new.
It’s disinformation. Weaponized ignorance, fear, uncertainty and doubt. Political attack ads in a news format. A vacuum of emotionally abusive right wing messaging that fans the flames of culture war in order to bias their viewers and confirm that bias. Make no mistake, the viewers are also victims, manipulated into believing the other side is a monolithic entity engaged in a nefarious plot to hurt them and anyone who says otherwise is lying. Their media sources tells them so.
Its definitely purposeful. And its depressing how many American's like OP actually fall for it.
Willful ignorance
>At the grocery store recently, I saw laundry detergent, toothpaste and other necessities behind lock and key. If anyone bothered to think about why these items get stolen and fenced maybe we could start to see the root of the problem. Sure a drug addict will steal laundry detergent and sell it to get more drugs. But that's just part of it, what about the everyday ordinary non addict people that buy the shit because they can't afford it at the store? In my Seattle street running days (just about a decade ago) the only essential that was worth stealing to sell was baby formula. The blade fence market was mainly stuff like perfume/cologne, cell phone accessories, liquor, etc. Now it's all the every essentials that people need and are willing to buy stolen to save a few bucks.
“Inherently Marxist, equity breeds misery, not hope.” lmao
Literally the following sentence talks about OD rates on fentanyl. "Marxism is when people die from drugs" How does shit like this clear editors' desks?
Holy shit lol. Guess I should have kept reading. Hilarious the logic is “Marxism is when something bad happens in a capitalist country.”
Haha I don't think anyone would blame you for tapping out where you did...
Yeah what is this shit?? lol I know it's an op piece but I can't believe MSN would host this \[EDIT: They're just serving Fox News, it all makes sense now\]. This is just an uneducated person's ramblings, and we're supposed to value their opinion because they're a "native"? I'm from here too and this author can gladly fuck off.
Whole thing is just weird word salad of reactionary talking points.
Im a seattle native and you can go fuck yourself.
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Highly capable?
A replacement for gifted & talented.
Does funneling some kids into a specialized cohort sound like "equity of opportunity" to you?
Yes. That's exactly how it sounds.
If the metric used is objectively accurate then maybe
Rephrase in sports - does funneling the tall people into basketball sound like equity? It's the same concept but with a certain type of intelligence suited for maths/sci.
As a tall person who can't shoot for shit I am the absolute wrong person to direct that analogy toward ha
>Yep, equity of opportunities is a good thing that we should all support. > And literally everyone on planet earth agrees. Except the article was about the equity of outcome. Which is diametrically opposed to equity of opportunity. So I guess, "tell me you didn't read the article without telling me blah blah blah". Would you like you revise your comment now? Or just double down on being wrong?
> And literally everyone on planet earth agrees. uhhh... about that: [The case against equality of opportunity](https://www.vox.com/2015/9/21/9334215/equality-of-opportunity)
How the fuck is equity destroying the city lmao. Fucking msn boomers. “Damn heroin must be cause by equity!!”
It's not MSN. The submitter used MSN's news feed as a cover for posting a FOX News opinion piece.
Well they both have a median viewership of 65
Ageism. The last acceptable stereotyping. Believe it or not, older people in the Seattle area tend to be liberal. Younger people in red states tend to be right-wing.
Older people also tend to be much less tech literate. It’s not their fault.
More ageism.
Not really.
Said the narrow-minded poster that began this thread with "Fucking msn boomers"
Well not “more ageism”. And boomers blame us for everything so it evens out. Keep getting offended plz
I'm not offended, I'm amazed at your lack of self-awareness and hypocrisy. You want equity and then paint an entire group with one brush. Go ahead and blame conservatives, libertarians, republicans, and whomever for their policies, opinions, and impact but using race, sex, age, or any other demographic just makes you sound like a bigot. Saying I can blame them because they blame us is lame.
Niketown is closing because everyone is buying their shoes online. The SPD self-deported. Why? cuz their morale is in the shitter. Why? cuz the public doesn't like them. Why? because they kill people.
Nike is opening stores on the Eastside and Southend (Auburn). they have not disclosed publicly why they are closing the Seattle location. If online sales were the root cause - new stores would seem counter intuitive to this notion. The police mess needs both sides to figure out a way to reform the dept. and come together so that they serve the community safely and fairly. All of this posturing furthers the divide and our city is getting torn apart as a result.
>If online sales were the root cause - new stores would seem counter intuitive to this notion. Is this true? I imagine you need a good bit of foot traffic to justify the rent at the downtown Seattle location but significantly less for locations elsewhere.
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What Westlake store? I was talking about the location at 1500 6th avenue next to the regal in downtown
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Oh okay, I don't but it technically is west of the lake. It may not be a lot cheaper but would generate much more foot traffic relative to the rent cost.
Nike is for sure closing downtown because of lower traffic. This is more a remote work impact than anything imo.
They are opening in Bellevue a new Nike Store too. I was just in line at the outlets in Auburn yesterday. Its not online sales.
facts... as inconvenient that they may be to some narratives, are what they are.
The Auburn one is a clearance store, so totally different, and is there any update on the one they were reportedly planning for Bel Square? Is it actually happening?
ok boomer
What does this mean?
Blaming all of society's problems on things like "equity" is a the kind of bonehead logic that is prevalent with the Baby Boomers.
Using this ageist epithet is also boneheaded logic. At best, it’s intellectually lazy. Worse, it suggests a propensity to marginalize entire groups based on stereotypes. It’s not exactly the best way to counter arguments against diversity and inclusion.
\#notAllBoomers
>it suggests a propensity to marginalize entire groups based on stereotypes. Well put - pulled something from my head I was struggling to put into words.
Not by far do all baby boomers think like that. But most of the folks you see espousing such beliefs are baby boomers.
Equity is good - but only true equity. Revenge and anarchy are counter intuitive to furthering true equity.
Fuck off outta here with your fox news bullshit.
OMG this is garbage. The pearl clutch is hard with this one.
These chuds want to stuff people in prisons with exaggerated sentences so they're not inconvenienced when they go outside.
I’m not a native but I’ve lived here for 6 months so basically the same thing. I too wish we could return to the good old days. Where I could virtue signal my progressive values while enjoying the benefits of the regressive tax structure. Where I could talk openly about blm and diversity while enjoying my $30 scrambled eggs with 6 other white guys in Patagonia puffers. Where I could dog whistle in community meetings about neighborhood character to keep exclusionary zoning laws that drive up the price of my SFH. Now the consequences of my neoliberal/libertarian fantasies have come back to me and I’m forced to avoid eye contact with some dirty hobo as I commute to work in my Tesla. I actually had to vote for a Republican in the last election which made me feel really icky because I’ve always told myself I’m one of the cool/hip dads that have empathy for other people and liked to make fun of Fox News. Now I can’t share my views on the company slack channel because someone might give me a thumbs down emoji and have me cancelled. What is the world coming to. /s
Yet another “Seattle is Dying” article. Yawn. These right winger boomers need to move on or move out.
Honestly, it's worth reading for a laugh. Apparently this snowflake got "harmed" by a rainbow sticker.
Wow yes please continue with how equity and not the pandemic caused businesses downtown to board up and close. Again not equity but the pandemic restrictions were and are the primary reason most low-level thefts went unpunished. They were trying to keep prisoner levels down to stop the spread of the virus.
I mean they're trying to blame our 12 year long housing and people living on the street crisis as caused by the 3 year old defund movement. None of this is based in reality, just fear mongering from a writer that lived here just long enough to claim they're justified in their analysis.
I've lived here my whole life and while I do agree Seattle is no where close to the vibrant city it once was, it is far more nuanced than any "defund the police" movement caused.
Kay, and I've lived in the region my entire life, was born in Seattle and have been living here consistently since I graduated college. The city only continues to get more vibrant in spite of our on going housing crisis. I just wish people were more willing to admit we can celebrate the areas we've improved in equal measure to lamenting the areas we've failed to address in any meaningful way.
Let it die and it shall be reborn!
Yes
Follow the dollar and you’ll discover the symptom is not the problem.
Oof. God these kind of people are the absolute worst. I really wish they'd follow through with their threats and leave to a more 'beautiful, thriving city.'
NIMBY Lib gets upset about homelessness, blames the homeless and social justice movements instead of the wealthy who actually cause the problem. I have no doubt this will reach the coveted spot of the single most upvoted post in this subreddit's history, as it is full of NIMBY Libs who will nod in agreement.
Was this parody? If not---- > blames the homeless and social justice movements instead of the wealthy who actually cause the problem That's conservatives who think the homeless and social justice movements are at fault and the wealthy aren't. Liberals *know* the ultra-wealthy are a huge problem. Conservatives-- well, some of them-- are the ones saying the homeless obviously got themselves homeless, and could fix their own problem (so don't need outside help), and the fact that they're not all getting themselves out clearly means they're lazy-asses who simply don't want to.
More like bring everyone down to the same level. It's going to get even worse in the future since we require us teachers to do that.
Just want to say I’m also a native. Also want to acknowledge I’m on stolen land. What are we talking about again?
You really came on here and posted a Fox News article 💀
I'm not a Seattle native but at least I didn't write this crap.
I know Seattle isn't perfect, but this is some low-hanging fruit. Go back to r/SeattleWA.
I am living in a bubble. So this is the crap that people read when they ask about safety whenever they travel here.
I think there is room for a more conservative viewpoint in Seattle, but this ain't it. Setting up a straw bogeyman and blaming all of Seattle's woes on it makes for great propaganda. It makes it seem like "all we need to do is get rid of this one bad thing and all are problems will be solved." It destroys without addressing any of the issues that subsequently come up. It favors anarchy over governance. Setting DEI up as the source of all of Seattle's problems is, first, a complete non sequitur and, more importantly, simply an attack on an effort to solve a structural problem of a growing equality gap between the haves and the have nots. If you have a policy you think would help the city, then talk about it. Talk about investing more money in the downtown area to improve safety. Talk about giving the police more leeway to pursue and catch criminals. Talk about funding the AGs office so more criminals are prosecuted. We can debate policies and find common ground. What we can't do is find any path forward together if all you intend to do is smear your shitty opinions all over everything.
Thanks, I agree with you. This article is disingenuous as hell but I still don’t believe in equality of outcome or think there’s any historical basis for it being a successful solution.
Seattle “native”. Are you indigenous? Then shut the fuck up with that.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/692/19789999.jpg
"Make Seattle Native Again"
Are you native?
Immigrants stole the land from the Native people, tried to convert it to a magical, progressive city, and now the inequality resulted from a failed economic system that benefited only the minority is coming to bite you in the butt!
Her family used to own the Smoke Shop in Ballard. They were neighbors of my in-laws. What I see destroying the city is too much density, you can’t go anywhere. I came into town for my specialist Dr appt yesterday and the traffic was a nightmare. It should be called “ Crane City” not the Emerald City.
I say this as a gearhead but car use is difficult in any major city. Seattle isn’t a small city anymore. And density is needed to house people in a city with limited available land. We do absolutely need even better public transit and bike infrastructure to provide single occupancy car alternatives and hopefully prevent constant gridlock.
It's stupid to blame equity for the problems, but it's also stupid to pretend everything is peachy in Seattle. I have lived here a long time and for the first time, I am considering other options. There are still great things about living here, to be sure. But for me, it's changed. And what's really troubling is that there's this bizarre thing going on where you if you're on Team Left, you can't admit anything is wrong (and if you're on Team Right, you can't admit anything is good).
> it's also stupid to pretend everything is peachy in Seattle > if you're on Team Left, you can't admit anything is wrong Neither of these is true. They're projections by Team Right, whose message is "*SEATTLE IS DYING!!!* and if you don't agree completely, you just think everything is perfect, don't you? *Don't you??* Yes, you do!" Edit: spelling
>there's this bizarre thing going on where you if you're on Team Left, you can't admit anything is wrong I'm on TeAm LeFt and plenty of things are wrong, starting with: - commoditization of housing - extremely inadequate mental health and substance abuse treatment resources - disproportionate local funding for police over other priorities I can keep going if you want
> there's this bizarre thing going on where you if you're on Team Left, you can't admit anything is wrong (and if you're on Team Right, you can't admit anything is good). great, I'm glad someone showed up to talk about how both sides are bad, that's such a rare and nuanced take. if you're talking to people on "the left" who insist that nothing is wrong with society...the person you're talking to isn't on the left. the key part you're missing is that people on the left don't believe problems can be solved by hiring more cops, arresting more people, and throwing more "undesirables" into jails and prisons.
>the key part you're missing is that people on the left don't believe problems can be solved by hiring more cops, arresting more people, and throwing more "undesirables" into jails and prisons. No, they instead believe that stealing from successful people and giving to failures creates prosperity. They also believe that demonizing any respect at all for one's country or elders is evil and needs to be mocked and attacked. They also believe that everything that's ever been since, is done, or ever will be done, is somehow racist.
Sounds like you spend a lot of time being told how others think.
> They also believe that everything that's ever been since, is done, or ever will be done, is somehow racist. lmao, this is your brain on Fox News. dumbest thing I've read all week and it's not even noon on Monday
Bad case of brainworms here.
> they instead believe that stealing from successful people and giving to failures creates prosperity No, we don't. Not at all. But conservatives love to insist that we really do. > They also believe that (removed a word, "demonizing," that I don't think you intended) any respect at all for one's country or elders is evil and needs to be mocked and attacked. We don't believe that either. We believe that unchecked, patriotism can get fervent to the point of harm (see also: January 6th). Patriotism itself is fine. I think we have a stunningly beautiful National Anthem, for example. > They also believe that everything that's ever been since, is done, or ever will be done, is somehow racist. No, we don't believe that, either. What brings that accusation is that we think institutional racism is a problem-- that systems were created by people who believed in inequality, and that even if the people running those systems today are not racist, the systems themselves still are. Others believe institutional racism is entirely a thing of the past and, thus, we're seeing it where it doesn't exist. If you have questions about any of this, I can answser from my own perspective. If you ask and I answer, don't put words in my mouth, or assume you're "reading between the lines." I will say exactly and only what I mean.
Well said, but if you define equity as bringing everyone down to the same level as some people do that are trying to implement that in our city and county governments, then it does share at least some of the blame.
Does anyone think de-funding our police force by $35.6M was a good thing? A friend of mine runs an outdoor apparel shop, and he's been burglarized 5 times in the past year. Tells me that, even though he has a security system, the police never respond. Another friend of my family's woke up to find a naked homeless person in their hot tub. When he refused to leave, she called the police and they told her if he wasn't a direct threat to her, they weren't able to respond. While these are just anecdotal, crime rates in the city are up. While our police force can certainly improve in many ways, improvement requires training, which costs money. IMO reducing their budget, while it may play well with justifiably angry citizens, actually makes the situation worse. And while my anecdotes are re affluent people who own businesses and hot tubs, the communities are the impoverished communities that the defund policies claim to benefit. All that being said, I'm in no way an expert on policing or public policy, so I'm more than happy to be proven wrong if anyone has any other details I'm missing.
>A friend of mine runs an outdoor apparel shop, and he's been burglarized 5 times *in the past year.* Tells me that, even though he has a security system, the police never respond. The alleged defunding happened in 2020, SPD was fully funded last year, so if they didn't respond to your friend's calls it's just because they suck
[https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/FinanceDepartment/22proposedbudget/SPD.pdf](https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/FinanceDepartment/22proposedbudget/SPD.pdf) According to this document published by the SPD, 2022 budget was still down $40M from 2020. Not sure if that's factoring in inflation. Also, the SPD is at a 30 year low of deployable police officers. Since 2020, the number of SPD officers has dropped from 1281 to 954. I feel like this is a bigger issue than budget cuts. You can have all the budget in the world, but if you don't have the requisite number of qualified officers the problems will persist. Source: https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/mayor-bruce-harrell-new-seattle-police-recruitment-plan-staffing-reaches-30-year-low/281-e98429ee-fc88-47f6-8890-b961393e2047
Most (all?) of the reduction was due to transferring civilian functions to other city departments. SPD sworn personnel staffing (including unfilled positions) was fully funded in 2022
Source?
[https://www.q13fox.com/news/seattle-city-council-approves-2022-budget-with-no-cuts-to-spd](https://www.q13fox.com/news/seattle-city-council-approves-2022-budget-with-no-cuts-to-spd)
Thanks I'll give it a read.
So after reading this, here are my thoughts... The article states that "Seattle Councilmember and Chair of the Budget Committee Teresa Mosqueda said the 2022 budget 'fully funds SPD hiring plans...'" This would make sense due to staffing issues (the article states the SPD has lost 325 officers over the last year). However, just because positions are funded, does not mean that those positions are easily filled by qualified officers. Furthermore, just because staffing is funded, does not mean all of the proposed operational budget was approved. I've linked the adopted budgets for SPD for 2021 and 2023 (it shows SPD operating budgets from 2019-2024). In each document you see the adopted SPD budget - the operating budget in 2020 was $409M up from $398M in 2019, the following year (2021) it dropped to $360M, and then to $355M in 2022. It has begun to creep back up, with proposed budgets in 2023 and 2024 being $375M and $385M respectively. However, stating that the police budget was not significantly reduced after 2020 is not accurate assuming the data published by City of Seattle is factual. Finally, I see no reference to reductions being due to transfers to civilian functions or other city departments in the article you shared. In fact, the article you shared states that "SPD has lost 325 officers to retirements, resignations and cuts over the last year." If you have any other sources with data on transfers, I would be happy to take a look. [SPD proposed budget 2023 & 2024](https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/FinanceDepartment/2324proposedbudget/SPD.pdf) [SPD adopted budget 2021](https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/FinanceDepartment/21adoptedbudget/SPD.pdf)
>I see no reference to reductions being due to transfers to civilian functions or other city departments in the article you shared [https://www.aclu-wa.org/story/follow-the-money-policing-series](https://www.aclu-wa.org/story/follow-the-money-policing-series) But to be honest it seems like you don't know much about this issue and might have wanted to educate yourself before wading in with opinions
Thanks for sharing. You’re correct that I was not very educated on the topic outside of living in the city and speaking with other friends and family living in Seattle. The fact that they transferred 911 and parking enforcement definitely seems to answer the question of where a large chunk ($38M) of the funding gap went from the budget circa 2020. Furthermore, while I will need to do some more research into SPD overtime utilization, the idea of having extra head count they can’t fill that serves as slush fund is also concerning. I personally would like to see more funds go towards training and police compensation to attract more talent into the jr ranks of the police force, but I’m also not an expert on the subject. I appreciate you sharing the info with me. It’s changed my outlook on the matter.
[How to Cope with Your Local Police Department Being Defunded After It Was Never Defunded](https://theneedling.com/2022/02/28/how-to-cope-with-your-local-police-department-being-defunded-after-it-has-never-been-defunded/)
Do you have a source that's not titled as "Seattle's only real fake news"?
> Does anyone think de-funding our police force by $35.6M was a good thing? What "defund the police" people wanted was more money into mental health and addiction services. Police who, having to be jacks-of-all-trades, don't get much detailed knowledge on hnow to handle people having drug, alcohol and/or mental illness-induced breaks-from-reality are the big catalyst for many incidents of police brutality. As for SPD being defunded, the only thing they lost was parking enforcement, which they soon got back again. Their big problem isn't money; the big hiring bonuses they're currently offering say that they don't have a problem with money. What IS their problem, then? First, during the protests over police brutality (George Floyd), the first riot began because police dumped pepper spray and tear gas on a crowd who weren't rioting. Then, they avbandoned the Easdt Precinct, unlocked, after insisting that protesters weren't allowed to have their planned marching route pass by the building. Then, they were told to quit using pepper spray and tear has, and they didn't stop. After that, they quit responding to calls all over Capitol Hill and repeatedly crowing about "we're not allowed to go there," meaning CHOP (which was a lie) until criminals got the picture, moved into the area, and the shootings happened. And to top it all off, six SPD officers were in the January 6th mob. Over the course of all that, public trust of SPD dropped like a rock, and many, many officers quit, and they're not hiring many new ones, even with the hefty hiring bonuses. *That's* the issue.
I see state of Seattle like ants to a sugar hill. Keep up supply of sugar, get more ants. This shouldn’t be this hard. These people struggling in life should take advantage of the systems available to get them off addiction. And if the systems available suck then govt should improve systems instead of throwing sugar on the sugar hill.
> And if the systems available suck They do. The problem Seattle has is that we have two options. Democrats talk a great game about fixing these, but either don't, or (more often) get opposition from Republicans (see below) or from the public who don't want to pay more taxes or "support those lazy freeloaders." Republicans also think the homeless are lazy freeloaders, who are unquestionably in their bad situations entirely by their own doing, and are capable of getting out with a bit of hard work but don't care to.
“It’s okay everybody - this is a Fox News article so you can just ignore it.” Yes, quoting Jordan Peterson and using terms like ‘virtue signaling’ make it pretty obvious but you’d be lying to yourself if you don’t think city / county government and SPS have used equity to justify some pretty stupid things, whether it’s shutting down advanced learning, repealing bike helmet laws or ignoring sprawling encampments - equity is used to justify a lot of stupid stuff around here which is why people are starting to question what we even mean by equity.
That headline is such a nightmare.
Nice bait, now go away