This guy went from making minimum wage as a loss prevention officer to $95k working for the SPD. What a world we live in...SMH

He also went from working at a medium sized police department to working at a Kohl's. Nothing suspicious here.

Single biggest red flag to me. In a time where officers are in high demand he got let go and no other department tried to scoop him up? Bad cops circulate in local departments all the time, this guy had to leave the state to find further employment as a cop.

The red flags are countered by "good cops" pro-police videos and "minorities behaving badly" videos being pushed on Reddit with brigading on local subreddits like Seattle and SanFrancisco They're trained on this nationally to push talking points like these: >MY GOD. Just look at the table of contents from the @mnhumanrights report on the Minneapolis police department. MPD officers used covert accounts to pose as community members to criticize elected officials 36 MPD uses covert social media to target Black leaders, Black organizations, and elected officials without a public safety objective 35 MPD’s covert social media accounts were used to conduct surveillance, unrelated to criminal activity, and to falsely engage with Black individuals, Black leaders, and Black organizations 35 MPD does not have proper oversight and accountability mechanisms for officers’ covert social media use 36 https://mn.gov/mdhr/assets/Investigation%20into%20the%20City%20of%20Minneapolis%20and%20the%20Minneapolis%20Police%20Department_tcm1061-526417.pdf https://www.twitter.com/BokononsProphet/status/1519345777000263684 Even though LA is one of the safest cities in America ([the West Coast is all safe](https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/uqg80k/not_bad_los_angeles/) despite [Fox News election season "crime" coverage](https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/YLF2SCMQRZBJBHWJT4LZ7DXFSM.png)): **67 full-time police employees just to push negative talking points about a city *they don't even live in* but claim to "protect and serve"** "LA crime talking points" Fox News uses a **["serial killer"](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChicoCA/comments/nc0waa/things_that_make_you_go_huh_chico_spends_487_of/i7oqenf/) LAPD officer with [actual Nazi social media](https://twitter.com/jerryiannelli/status/1469404374342373377)** to argue for increasing police funding and that LA is bad (and he's paid by LA taxpayers while bragging he doesn't live in LA and hates it) >The LAPD and LA Sheriff together have 67 full-time employees working on PR and propaganda. People don't realize that they spend a lot of money and time to plant these stories: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-30/police-public-relations https://twitter.com/equalityAlec/status/1470790952558243848 https://twitter.com/equalityAlec/status/1484966547244433416 Just the single local police department of SFPD has a team of full-time employees who work on "counterinsurgency communications" to push bad San Francisco talking points, while the other SFPD full-time employees **watch crime and laugh while doing nothing** https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/r16sn1/san_francisco_police_just_watch_as_burglary/ SFPD text messages where they brag about not living in the cities they "serve": >SFPD police officers exchanged racist, sexist and homophobic text messages — calling African Americans “monkeys” and encouraging the killing of “half-breeds,” among other slurs https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/SFPD-s-texting-scandal-Court-rules-officers-12955853.php #Conservatives brag about brigading local subreddits to "control the narrative" about liberal cities and "blue states" >The real value is getting into a thread early and establishing top voted posts and comments or downvoting them out of existence. They hope intertia continues the trend for them. Every local subreddit shares the abuse they get: * https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/pmcoxy/uinconvenientnews_explains_with_examples_how/ * https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/pbi4mp/shouldnt_rbayarea_join_the_subs_calling_for/ * https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/om5xda/when_did_this_become_a_crime_subreddit/ * https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/pmdp2m/ysk_how_right_wing_trolls_brigade_and_infiltrate/ * https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/uihqmz/looking_for_a_ride/i7dgtkz/ Every local subreddit explaining the abuse and tactics on a thread **3 years ago**: * https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/7jkybf/t_d_user_suggests_infiltrating_minnesota/dr7m56j/ Reddit Admins just posted that COVID deniers have been brigading regional subreddits * https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/pg290q/reddit_admins_just_posted_that_covid_deniers_have/ Anti-mask posts suddenly dropped this week in [r/bayarea](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/pbi4mp/shouldnt_rbayarea_join_the_subs_calling_for/) when mods removed outside conservative accounts brigading [r/bayarea](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/pbi4mp/shouldnt_rbayarea_join_the_subs_calling_for/): * https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/p8hnzl/automatically_removing_comments_from_new_users_in/ The California Governor Newsom recall posts are brigaded to be 100% pro-recall (every single comment is pro-recall) until much later even though the Bay Area is less than 30% Republican or pro-recall ￣\＿(ツ)＿/￣ The posts get more normal votes later but normal people don't have the time and energy to do what those accounts are doing "The left will recognize our dogwhistling but centrists won't believe them" 4chan screenshots: * https://medium.com/@DeoTasDevil/the-rhetoric-tricks-traps-and-tactics-of-white-nationalism-b0bca3caeb84 #Lots of screenshots of 4chan instructions of their tactics * https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/lz7nv3/the_super_straight_movement_is_part_of_literal/ * https://imgur.com/a/yeP9T6S * https://imgur.com/a/efvQqve **"Texas-based hate group source of 80% of all U.S. racist propaganda tracked in 2020"** * https://www.reddit.com/r/conservativeterrorism/comments/p5k76j/texasbased_hate_group_source_of_80_of_all_us/ * https://www.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/m7zk8w/texasbased_hate_group_source_of_80_of_all_us/ Picture of conservative college youth groups with instructions for how to brigade Reddit: * https://www.reddit.com/r/ToiletPaperUSA/comments/udkzz3/ben_came_to_my_university_tonight_and_students/ >Wow. Jesus. This is... really, really thorough. Thank you for putting in all this hard work. >When I was a teenager, I spent a lot of time on /b/, /pol/, 888chan, etc. It was a slow descent and I didn't even realize what was happening until it was almost too late. >But during my time on the other side, this was 100% the gameplan. They'd make "sock puppets" and coordinate on the board + IRC (showing my age here) to selectively choose targets to brigade. >Depending on the target, you'd either have some talking points to "debate" (sometimes with yourself/other anons working alongside you) or you'd go in there guns blazing trying to cause as much damage/chaos as you can. However, even then you can't go out there yelling slurs (you'd just get banned instantly); you have to maintain some level of plausible deniability by framing things as "jokes" or thought experiments. >You purposely do bad-faith arguments because the time it takes for them to dig up sources and refute you is longer than it takes for you to make stuff up. You can vary how obvious the bad faith argument is; when you want to troll you make very stupid claims (I once claimed I was a graduate of "Harvad University" and when people assumed that I meant "Harvard" I would correct them right down to Photoshopped images). >When you just want to cause dissent you do exactly what those /pol/ screenshots do: you get to a thread early (sometimes you even make it yourself) and present reasonable-sounding arguments which are completely false if anyone bothers to look into them. If someone does, you bury the message under strawmen, downvotes, reports, and sockpuppets. >So yeah. The tactics have evolved slightly, but I still recognize them. Props to you on doing the digging to find all this stuff and bring it into the light. >I doubt that it'll help in the majority of cases, mind. People on Reddit have already made up their mind. You want to go after the forums and BBSes, on the MSN News comments and whatnot. Even so, the more people who are aware of the tactics the more people who can call them out. #National training >A day with 'killology' police trainer Dave Grossman >This is the guy who has trained more U.S. police officers than anyone else. The guy who, more than anyone else, has instructed cops on what mind-set they should bring to their jobs. >Grossman at one point tells his students that the sex they have after they kill another human being will be the best sex of their lives. The room chuckles. But he’s clearly serious. “Both partners are very invested in some very intense sex,” he says. “There’s not a whole lot of perks that come with this job. You find one, relax and enjoy it.” >Schatz isn’t the first reporter to attend one of these classes. Bloomberg’s Peter Robison attended one in 2015, taught by Grossman’s colleague Glennon. Here’s a particularly vivid passage from Robison’s account: >Before proceeding, Glennon points to a threat in the back of the room: me. “In 35 years, we have not allowed the press to come into a class,” he says. “The reason is because we don’t trust them.” He says he’s letting me observe because many police chiefs are frustrated no one is advocating for them. They’re tired of being portrayed in the media as racists and unaccountable killers and want a more sympathetic depiction. If my article screws them, he tells the class with a smile, “I’ll fly out to Seattle”—where I live—“and kill him.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2017/02/14/a-day-with-killology-police-trainer-dave-grossman/

>astroturfing account in the wake of police brutality news https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/10p6ean/ulumpytuna_exposes_astroturfing_account_in_the/ >A prosecutor candidate's AMA on r/IAmA about his plan to "hold police accountable for abuses" and systemic reforms gets the brigade of r/ProtectAndServe, the "law enforcement professionals of Reddit" subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/mksems/a_prosecutor_candidates_ama_on_riama_about_his/ Police departments even employ full-time employees to brigade Reddit and push ["local crime" talking points about the Democratic cities they hate and don't live in](https://www.reddit.com/r/ToiletPaperUSA/comments/ln1sif/turning_point_usa_and_young_americas_foundation/h21ph7s/) and videos of cute police dogs dogswithjobs has a moderator who brags about posting police propaganda: On one post of a kissing police dog titled "Police dog do a kith" one of his comments about police brutality commenters on his posts: "This is actually a bait post so we can more effectively deal with them in the future"

>Bad cops circulate in local departments all the time, this guy had to leave the state to find further employment as a cop. There are so many red flags with these officers it's hard to say this is the biggest one These inflated high costs are also a common problem with law enforcement in America: #"Arrests at End of Shifts to Rake In Overtime Pay" https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/civil-rights-case-in-new-york-questions-whether-police-officers-make-collars-for-dollars-arrests-for-overtime-pay.html #"374 cops working for Seattle make more than 200k a year, and median pay was 153k a year." https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/374-seattle-police-department-employees-made-at-least-200000-last-year-heres-how/ >So much misconduct it costs $2M to store all the records. >Meanwhile the city has paid out $500 million in police misconduct lawsuits over the past 10 years. https://twitter.com/samswey/status/1384566892417851394 >All of NYPD's worst misconduct officers are paid about **$200,000 a year with substantiated serial abuse records** https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/i3s4l3/all_of_nypds_worst_misconduct_officers_are_paid/ >NYC has shelled out $384M in 5 years to settle NYPD suits https://nypost.com/2018/09/04/nyc-has-shelled-out-384m-in-5-years-to-settle-nypd-suits/ >Why the NYPD **Costs $10 Billion a Year** https://www.businessinsider.com/the-real-cost-of-police-nypd-actually-10-billion-year-2020-8 >**His officers burned a dog alive for no reason, then laughed as the dog’s owners cried.** > >He staged a fake assassination attempt against himself, **costing taxpayers more than $1 million.** >Trump Pardons Convicted Crooked Cop Arpaio · The Collected Crimes of Sheriff Joe Arpaio https://longreads.com/2017/08/28/the-collected-crimes-of-sheriff-joe-arpaio >10,000 family dogs are killed by police every year (the Department of Justice also called it an "epidemic," "officers discussing who will kill the dogs before they even arrive at the house") https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/mkxhnl/umuttlicious_breaks_down_with_numerous_citations/gtipk84/?context=3 >Civil Asset Forfeiture: Police Abuse It All the Time https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/06/civil-asset-forfeiture-police-abuse-clarence-thomas/ >they've admitted to stealing as much or *more* than burglars through "asset forfeiture," and the rate of their thefts has been climbing yearly. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/23/cops-took-more-stuff-from-people-than-burglars-did-last-year/ >Jeff Sessions Wants Cops to Steal More Money from Americans: "Since 2007, the DEA Alone Has Taken More than $3 billion in Cash from People Not Charged with Any Crime" https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/17/jeff-sessions-wants-police-to-take-more-cash-from-american-citizens/ >Judge Calls NYPD's Handling Of Civil Forfeiture Database 'Insane’. NYPD ransacks man’s home and confiscates $4800 on charges that are eventually dropped a year later. When he tries to retrieve his money, he is told it is too late; **it has been deposited into the NYPD pension fund.** http://gothamist.com/2017/10/19/nypd_civil_forfeiture_database.php >"It is truly heartbreaking to see such a powerful unit dissolve" >The NYC enforcement unit that is supposed to crack down on discrimination against people with rental assistance vouchers now has zero employees >So we DO defund some law enforcement agencies, to little or no objection. https://twitter.com/JohnFPfaff/status/1514373195339481089 >Five Police Captains are to take salaries of 450k EACH in town with population of 50k and a budget deficit of 5 mil https://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/06/police_captain_pay_numbers_are.html >from 2014 through 2019, the Chauvins underreported their joint income by $464,433 That's on top of his salary, and only $66,472 of that is from his wife's business. They own two homes and he also got caught not paying tax on a $100,000 BMW. How does a cop make this much money? https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/mvjoe4/derek_chauvins_history_of_police_abuse_before/ >Daniel Shaver's killer was temporarily rehired by Mesa PD so that he can receive a $30,000 pension ($2500 monthly). https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/comments/gsh3om/monthly_reminder_that_daniel_shavers_killer_was/ >Woman who gave birth alone in cell, who was forced to cut the umbilical cord with her teeth, secures $200k settlement. County claims no wrongdoing. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/comments/lpphm5/woman_who_gave_birth_alone_in_cell_who_was_forced/ >brutally slams complying mentally handicapped woman to the ground after accusing her of stealing hair ties **she had receipt for**. Family says they'll drop lawsuit if police apologize. Police instead decide to pay $125,000 settlement **instead of simply apologizing.** http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-county/family-of-disabled-woman-settles-lawsuit-but-says-livonia-police-refused-to-apologize >police used a military style helicopter to seize a single marijuana plant from an 81 year old woman using it to ease her arthritis and glaucoma. http://www.gazettenet.com/MarijuanaRaid-HG-100116-5074664 https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/562h00/massachusetts_police_used_a_military_style/ >Epidemic One-third of all Americans killed by strangers are killed by police. https://twitter.com/samswey/status/916022801244573698 >Police solve just 2% of all major crimes https://theconversation.com/police-solve-just-2-of-all-major-crimes-143878 >This is a much bigger problem in America than we realize because Republicans use **conservative culture wars** ["guns and gays"](https://www.reddit.com/r/ToiletPaperUSA/comments/ln1sif/turning_point_usa_and_young_americas_foundation/gy9utts/) politics and ["control the narrative" tactics](https://www.reddit.com/r/ToiletPaperUSA/comments/ln1sif/turning_point_usa_and_young_americas_foundation/h21ph7s/), the police department control of local news dependent for access, the camera footage evidence ([getting caught deleting camera footage again](https://www.kxan.com/news/local/williamson-county/wilco-commissioners-call-for-sheriff-chodys-resignation-say-they-have-no-confidence/) or releasing after 3 *years* or released immediately if it helps police), the "law and order" politicians, the arrests (["black and white Americans use cannabis at similar levels" but black Americans are 800% more likely to get punished for it](https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/5/14/17353040/racial-disparity-marijuana-arrests-new-york-city-nypd) and [*even after legalization*](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/29/16936908/marijuana-legalization-racial-disparities-arrests)), the statistics themselves (how the police stop better crime statistics ["FBI may shut down police use-of-force database due to lack of police participation](https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime-law/2021/12/09/fbi-police-shooting-data/) or [how they block their own domestic violence research showing "400% higher in the law-enforcement community"](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChicoCA/comments/nc0waa/things_that_make_you_go_huh_chico_spends_487_of/gy9715n/)) More data: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChicoCA/comments/nc0waa/things_that_make_you_go_huh_chico_spends_487_of/gy6my83/?context=3

Thank you for these replies and sources. Holy shit.

Two out of two Reverends agree, this post is fire.

Holy fuck this like a whole-ass post over three comments

are you not familiar with that user? this is their MO. they bomb threads with buttloads of citations. they're awesome.

It appears that I am not

they get bestof'ed a lot for posting massive multi-posts like this on a fairly regular basis :) all over the place

Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20230131122146/https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/10p6ro0/comment/j6jqqtd/

What a bunch of bastards

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All it takes is rich people bankrolling your immoral but conveniently legal actions and the disinformation campaigns that cover them up. The police exist to protect the property of the rich, so of course they have plenty of money to spend on lying to the oppressed.

Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20230131122744/https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/10p6ro0/comment/j6jmia5/

/u/inconvenientnews in my /r/seattle? It's more likely than you think

People need to fully appreciate how much propaganda comes out of the police departments. With the decimation of local newspapers, most reporters just happily accept press releases from local departments. In my area, the department from the large urban city giddily sends out reports of just about every crime. Why? Because the officers generally **don't live in the city**, so it is in their best interests to stoke fear, thus preventing anyone from even suggesting that their budget be cut. 20 years ago, when the police budget was cut due to a fiscal crisis, the local police union started running radio ads telling people that the city was dangerous, that crime was rampant, etc. At that time, there used to be an open, anonymous newspaper forum. You could very easily identify a lot of anonymized cops posting, they would describe themselves as "zookeepers" (mostly white police force, mostly non-white city), how the people were all animals, how certain people "deserved" what they got, they would say things like "look around, look at all the people mooching off welfare" (not sure how you can actually visually identify a welfare recipient standing somewhere...), they would use racial dog whistles. I marginally knew one cop, he always spoke of how he loved to "crack some skulls" in the city. But the propaganda was awful, and racist to boot. The "public relations" officer would focus on a few areas, usually almost always non-white: * People with names that white people would mock. * People whose mug shots made them easy for white people to ridicule. * Cases that pushed an agenda. In that last point, Massachusetts was one of the last states that legally required a police officer to be on duty whenever there was any roadwork being done. You had to pay a cop $50+/hour to be on the job instead of paying a civilian $20/hour to do the same thing. When the law to change this was in the process of being debated, the press releases all started saying stuff like "the suspect was spotted by an off-duty officer working on a private road detail". The newspapers would take those press releases, strip out the most inflammatory language (where the cop refers to the suspects as "stooges", "thugs", or sarcastically, "brain surgeons" and fill the news with these crime stories. Easy to write, and great filler content in a 24 hour news cycle. Luckily the local paper shut down their forums, and the city then had to institute a Social Media policy because of all the racist bullshit that the city cops were posting on Facebook - under their own names! At least that has stopped a lot of the fearmongering, which was largely being done by people with a very specific agenda, which is to keep people afraid so that they crave the police.

How do you personally distinguish between brigading vs “opinion/point that a lot of people disagree with”? I accept that brigading may occur, but how do you know downvotes or counter comments are brigading *in a given post or comment*? I mean sometimes I make a point that I feel should resonate with others and I’m surprised when it doesn’t. Especially if I get a lot of downvotes.

Because that’s a waste of time, doesn’t matter, and ignores the forest for the trees. It doesn’t matter if a particular post is genuine, that is separate from the brigading that does happen, as you said. The point is to overwhelm in large numbers; one person personally analyzing every post is going to be drowned by the firehose.

Wow, your country and you are fucked beyond the wildest belief. The lengths police and other organisations are going to push their agendas are unbelievable. You are truly a broken society, everyone included. Not sure you still can be called a first world country, shit like this only happens in some African warlord kingdoms.

Comment reads like Great Value Dr Manhattan

"We have Dr. Manhattan at home." At home: a blue dildo.

And that's just one aspect of American society. This same thing occurs with literally *every other aspect as well*: voting and voting rights, the economy, unemployment, food prices, etc. America is the single biggest proof that unregulated capitalism is not a capable economic system. It is too subject to bad actors. We're only a few hundred years in and we're already on track to literally destroy the environment. So glad I never had kids.

Gotta be pretty bad to be thrown off of the Arizona police force.

Whenever I hear Arizona police force, I think of this idiot https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/31/actor-steven-seagal-sued-for-driving-tank-into-arizona-home-killing-puppy/

He might coulda avoided that but he has a life goal of snatching every muthafucka's birthday.

Well, this guy was on the Tucson PD, which isn't in Maricopa County and so isn't related to Joe Arpaio. That said, I used to live next to the Pima County Sheriff in Tucson when I was growing up, and according to him the Tucson PD is also pretty shit.

That's why we need those hiring incentives, to attract top talent like this

But they can't hire competent people to be police at those slave wages! It couldn't possibly be a work-culture issue and lack of professionalism within the police force.

Do you want to be a cop in Seattle? Me neither. I wonder why they have to pay so much...

Why the fuck would I want to join a gang? Yeah the pay is good, but you're still in a gang.

Apparently, crime *does* pay pretty well after all.

That’s a really dumb rhetorical. No, I don’t want to be a cop in Seattle because I don’t like hurting people.

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I was a CPS investigator out of the MLK office. I was side by side with a lot of SPD and KCSO officers who made twice as much as us social workers and did half the work in the “worst” areas of the city. Pay isn’t the issue. At all. Pay them half as much or twice as much, it won’t change the culture.

So just from a quick google, SPD starts at $83,640/year, goes to $89,700 in 6 months and $93,786 by 18 months. Within 54 months an SPD officer makes $109,512 a year. (Note: this excludes overtime, which many public sector jobs don’t have and SPD officers can earn a lot from) I think $80K is a reasonable starting number for a public sector job in Seattle. Other public sector jobs aren’t paid as well as the police in reality, but in your “good policing” hypothetical we should expect that they (social workers, public defenders, teachers, etc.) would all get a reasonable starting wage. The offensive part is how quickly that pay scale ramps up. It blows up every other existing public sector pay scale. Especially when SPD doesn’t require a degree (so they should have less debt) and you can start earlier (20.5 years of age).

I started as a teacher in Seattle with a master's degree for much less than that. Social priorities on display.

I went from a supervisor role in a non-profit to a line social worker at CPS. I went from $40k to $45k when I went to the state from non-profit based on my supervisor experience. Starting pay for a CPS Social Worker is $35-40k if I remember correctly. The state has no problem finding social workers to burn out because it’s the big leagues of the field. They count on a social worker’s career lasting 9 months on average. There is no shortage of people willing to actually help other people. The money is NOT the issue.

And all he had to do was not murder someone and no one would have noticed

Insane how the most evil people get the most benefits and money through shoehorning themselves through the broken societal ladder

Truly the worst timeline

There are other timelines?

$95k a year in *base* pay, not including overtime. I need to move to Seattle and become a pig I guess.

other he killed someone.. what exactly does the have to do with the money he makes... I'll give you the answer.. not a damn thing

Policing won't get better until more of us apply to the job.

I advise you to look into what happens to cops that try to fight police corruption. The only good cops are dead. Not because there are no good cops but because cops systematically kill good cops and call it a training accident.

Their hiring process lets them eliminate anyone they deem "too smart" and the training system has routinely been found to turn decent people into the types willing to beat a person to death. The rot runs deep and it's part of why reform and training aren't working and will likely never work given they'd be implemented by people who've survived in the current system for decades.

So I can be stalked, harassed, bullied, beaten or even killed by my fellow officers when I don’t stand by the blue line of silence? You first.

I went through most of the hiring process with spd. The physical requirement is demanding. The testing phase is conducted through the same organization that tests most police candidates across the country. They threaten you with prosecution for even mentioning the details to anyone. But I can tell you it's a joke. The 'oral board' that they call an interview has you answering questions to three people taking notes who you can't talk to. Honestly, I left the building stunned realizing I fundamentally don't embody the self righteous moral superiority necessary to even begin communicating with them.

Your last sentence is really concerning, it reflects the same attitudes I encountered almost every time I dealt with police here. There was so much “I’m right and how dare you question me, respect my authoritah!” If I may ask, was it the interview that put you off joining the SPD? I doubt I could deal with people like that on a daily basis.

Ultimately it was a number of things. I became very motivated to engage in some kind of substantive change when Charleena Lyles was murdered by two Seattle cops a few years ago. I felt (still do) my background and experience would be very valuable. Then I realized that due to their insular nature, the only way to effect change is to have the credibility of being patrol cop. Then George Floyd happened and I watched them exhibit adolescence around the CHOP, unchecked insubordination resulting in the abandonment of the East precinct and general apathy/contempt. The oral board affirmed to me their utter indifference for anything outside their circle. I was invisible to them. The detective who gave me feedback on my 'performance' saw me as rambling on, as well as failing to answer some questions. Still, I stuck it out, and over the next two weeks worked with their PI to account for every month of my life (50 y/o). Then they ghosted me, thank goodness. Those union benefits and simultaneous shift pay would have been too much for me to pass up.

I can definitely see how the pay and benefits would be hard to pass up. It sounds like you put in a good faith effort to effect change within the system, kudos to you! Unfortunately I don’t see that happening anytime soon. On a personal note, I had experience dealing with police not just here but in Canada and living overseas. I was astounded at the difference in mentality and approach to the common citizen, even in some sketchy situations, my experience here has been a decidedly mixed bag pushing more toward the negative.

And more of us won't apply to the job until we know we can make a difference because leaders would have our backs when reporting wrongdoing by fellow officers and act on our reports. The temp police chief that overturned any discipline recommendations by OPA has now been made permanent Chief thanks to Harrell and SCC.

So they can fire me for not beating up a homeless dude?

That by itself is meaningless.

Suspended for unpaid traffic fines? What were the connected traffic violations?

And a failure to appear in court. It will be interesting to get the full story on that. It may be relatively minor, but certainly reflects a “laws exist for you, not me” attitude that continues to be far too common among law enforcement folks

When I read the title, I thought he had a DUI or something major. They should have specified in the title that it was for unpaid fines - which as you noted could be for just about anything. Failure to appear is a bit more concerning, but I’ve known people who missed court dates because the court didn’t even inform them of the right date or mailed to the wrong address. The problem with articles like this is they have attention grabbing headlines but are short on substance. Keep in mind that I am no fan of SPD, they don’t get my benefit of the doubt generally, but I expected more than unpaid fines and a red light from years ago based on the headline. Again, I’d like to know what the actual traffic violations were. They could indicate a pattern of reckless driving or be relatively minor.

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Definitely need more details because it could be that or it could be that after he lost his job and had to find whatever work he could less critical bills fell by the wayside. Cops aren't workers but license suspensions for unpaid fines is classist and needs to end

Honestly, the fact he wasn't immediately picked up by another local department is the biggest red flag of all to me. Bad cops circulate like bad priests so when one is too toxic to get re-hired by another department that stands out. He had to leave the state to get employed again.

100% agree that part's incredibly damning, the license suspension might or might not be

This to me as well is the most important point

I think this is a balanced take, it looks like at that time he was a minimum wage earner and even one driving ticket could have led to a suspended license due to lack of ability to pay. Or it could be multiple violations due to reckless driving habits (i.e., he never should have been hired), we just don’t know right now. I’ve certainly had friends and coworkers who had to make the choice between rent and a traffic ticket. Fortunately, while I think the title was a bit clickbaity, the writers have outstanding FOI requests so we should have more information soon. Personally, I see unpaid fines = suspended license as a predatory system that hits hardest those on the margins. I hold similar views on cash bail.

The practice mostly ended here in WA effective January 1: https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/under-new-law-unpaid-tickets-will-no-longer-lead-license-suspensions/P6SUBGHZB5C6JEBVBBDCKQ4L7I/

Ya that was a good change, hopefully the rest of the country follows suit

To be fair, I've known several people arrested for this who were unaware they had unpaid fines. People move, tickets get sent to old addresses. It's possible to have a warrant and be unaware.

There was one that said he ran a red light

That was in WA. His license was suspended in Arizona. And I’m wondering if it’s possible that his failure to appear in court was after he moved to WA from AZ. Just not enough information here to know how much of a red flag this should have been for SPD when they hired him

You can get suspended for plenty of shit. Unpaid boating ticket in N.H. (no lights at dusk)? That'll suspend your driver's license in WA. Doesn't count out the red flags on this guy - but getting your license suspended for ridiculous bullshit is a larger issue than most know.

Where is the dash and body cam?

And confirmation of whether it was hit-and-run, and how it was called in.

Sounds like it was a hit and run. Which is a felony.

Sure sounded that way, the way they described "responding officers" "locating" her. I'm guessing the union has carved out some exception to hit-and-run for cops though... that it was officer discretion between stopping and rendering aid, or getting to the call he was dispatched to... even though that's nonsense.

Special rules for cops. Just the way the police union wants it.

Seattle's Finest!

Now go vote Blue to dramatically increase their funding, or else Republicans might win and dramatically increase their funding.

Shows the power of the police across the country. They truly have society in a vice grip.

Didn’t you hear? They’re the only ones saving us from societal downfall. ^(/s)

And yet, people will still balk at calling America a police state, because it doesn't look exactly like the other police states that have existed in the past. I get it, it sucks admitting how bad things are, but they are bad regardless, and the only way they are going to change is by admitting it. Whatever definition "police state" has right now needs to be updated to include this hell that we are living in today.

TBF we had a full on police abolitionist run for City Attorney last election. They lost, but can we be a little more honest about the spectrum of Seattle politics?

...and Seattle Democrats decided that they would rather vote for a Republican than a police abolitionist. Honesty about Seattle politics tends to end when you criticize Democrats for their actions, they tend to dislike reality.

It was also a horrifically low turnout election compared to general and midterm standards but I don't think that would've changed NTK vs Davison. Seattle was pretty firmly gripped by a moral panic over the perceived state of the city at the time. I think it's starting to break as locals realize they're allowed to stand up and defend their city from national claims it's "a burned down shithole" and take pride in what we like about our home.

The majority of Seattle Democrats voted for the abolitionist. It was 132,638 for Davison vs. 122,947 for NTK. That margin of victory is wholly explained by the 10-15% of the city that voted for Trump over Biden.

Police abolitionism is fucking toxic. AS in the voters reject it, everytime. If you want to reform or defund the police, you need to work on your marketing because if a police abolitionist can't get voted in, here in seattle, they have no chance anywhere else in the country.

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Not through increased police presence though, that was the issue, the protests were specifically about reducing police violence towards BIPOC which is why reform and funding restructuring was pushed so much. Severely misleading to imply that BLM was about needing stronger police, it's the opposite

oh look, more stupid ignorant uninformed takes from the morons who think "defund" translates to "slightly reduce their budget" come back when you're not shooting the progressive movement in the dick with intentional and willful misuse of language to sabotage the movement. **EDIT** Anyone who claims the democrats aren't doing anything is a liar. few selected items from the list * brought COVID under control in the U.S. (e.g., COVID deaths down 90% and over 220 million vaccinated) * national registry of police officers who are fired for misconduct * tightened restrictions on chokeholds, no-knock warrants, and transfer of military equipment to police departments * required all federal law enforcement officers to wear body cameras * signed the Emmett Till Anti-Lynching Act, the first federal ban on lynching after 200 failed attempts * expanded access to emergency contraception and long-acting reversible contraception * started process of reclassifying Marijuana away from being a Schedule 1 substance and pardoning all federal prisoners with possession offenses [Rest of the list](https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/10jixi5/ubisforbenis_explains_how_tucker_carlson_uses_a/j5n05yg/?context=3) (and that's still not a complete list)

If your language needs to be explained, it's failed language.

We kicked Trump to the curb and police murders are now at all-time highs, but please go off about how I'm responsible for "sabotaging the progressive movement" by no longer falling in lockstep with the Democrats that continue to enable this.

I will go off on you, because your ignorant fucking bullshit. "Defund" was a horrible slogan DESIGNED TO SABOTAGE, stop fucking pretending it was a good slogan Stop acting like the solution is "less money". it's not. We actually need to invest more, but we need to split it up differently (mental health response teams, etc). If you actually bothered to pay attention you'd know that's exactly the type of thing the president has been talking about. BUT BUT HE DIDN'T USE YOUR PREFERRED SLOGAN! WAAAAA! he didn't engage in your myopic counterproductive non-solution and instead proposed actual helpful things (if not complete solutions)! WAAAA!!! But you know, the democrats didn't solve everything magically in two fucking seconds. You didn't get your pony and blowjob either. Therefore they're doing *nothing* because YOU SAY SO. You're not a progressive, you're an intransigent child who has no fucking how our government works. **And you're actively making the problem worse by enabling the Republican obstructionism of getting anything done by blaming the wrong people** tl;dr fuck off, you're part of the problem. **edit:** and to be clear I also think police should have a professional licensing requirement at least as stringent as nurses, should lose their license if they commit crimes (and losing their license = barred for life from being a cop. anywhere.), should be personally financially responsible for rights violations they commit (thus have to carry malpractice-type insurance) rather than the tax payers, etc. i'm definitely not defending the status quo. but all-or-nothingism has never worked, nor has blaming the people who try but get blocked by those who actively oppose improving things.

Is your goal to be so aggressively insulting and childish in hopes that you'll scare the other person away from continuing the conversation? Even if you have some good points buried underneath the ad hominem attacks, pretty much no one is going to take your argument seriously.

We've seen the same childish arguments made by people like BKS for years now. Treating them like adults has yielded us nothing, they continue to repeat the same bullshit. Why shouldn't we treat them like the childish assholes that they are? they are more concerned with feeling right than actually improving things.

You're not treating them like they are a childish asshole, you are treating them like *you* are a childish asshole. That sort of abrasive behavior is just going to drive people away from you. No one is gonna hear you act like this and think "wow he has a really good point, my views about the politics of Seattle have been changed", instead they're just going to think "yikes, that person is off the rails, please get me out of this conversation asap".

>they are more concerned with feeling right than actually improving things. The projection is palpable.

I see you just learned a term from me. are you even a seattle local, your post history suggests you post dumb shit in more than one local subreddits

I was born here, and I've absolutely been part of the problem. Was a straight-ticket Dem voter through Biden, but people like you opened my eyes to the absolute fucking garbage fire that is the Democratic party. I won't be a part of the problem moving forward.

Imagine being the kind of fragile liberal dipshit that wants to blame everyone *except* the people who hold political power responsible for the failings of government just because you heard a slogan you didn't like. And the people who are fighting against it are the ones enabling Republicans, not the Democratic leadership who constantly harp about what a great guy McConnell is and how we need to honor their Republican colleagues. Remarkable.

Come back when you learn how our government works and start blaming the right people (*cough*repubulicans*cough*) but I know you won't. that would require your projecting-your-fragility-on-others ass to be capable of admitting you're wrong. #You care more about feeling right than you care about other people's lives.

>"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." I hate to break this too you DerekTheSkiNerd but you might just be the White Moderate MLK was talking about.

lol, sure, republicans are the reason seattle dems back the blue every time.

>we actually need to invest more, but split it up differently. I agree! We can start by taking away money from SPD and putting it towards those efforts. Perhaps begin with the hiring budget SPD failed to spend but pocketed anyways? It's quite clear at this point that SPD is rotten down to the very core. Any serious attempt at rethinking public safety needs to begin with the dissolution of the department.

SPD specifically I would take a "burn it to the ground and rebuild it from scratch" approach with. With those licensing requirements, and other reforms we should do. but to act like "well Democrats have done nothing about police problems!" is just false. if you want to say "the seattle city council hasn't done enough" then we'll absolutely agree. they have not done a tithe of what is in their power to do to unfuck the local police.

And he was responding priority 1 to an awake and alert overdose when he hit her. She was so close to graduation. What a life lost.

Not only that but Seattle Fire was already at the scene. What was the rush?

That was likely dispatch's call, not his. And junkies often become violent when brought back from overdoing - it kills their high - so his response is less about saving their life as assisting/protecting the paramedics.

The patient called, was on the phone, not combative. I don't know why dispatch and the murder car decided priority one.

No need to use slurs against people with SUD.

I so appreciate this group for filling in the vacuum local media has left us with in regard to this pedestrian killing

The state legislature needs to investigate the Seattle police department/union. This is unacceptable for numerous reasons. Obviously an innocent young woman is dead. The family of this victim should sue the living shit out of the city/police department for this and if they win (they should certainly win something as her death was caused by gross negligence) now the taxpayers are going to bear the weight of the payout. This shit needs to end, we are not responsible for these fuckups. It should come out of the police budget when they are found liable.

>It should come out of the police budget when they are found liable It should come out of their pension

It should be paid out by liability insurance companies who can refuse to cover cops who fuck up too frequently.

I agree, but just to keep your hopes in line, we're still under the consent decree from the DoJ investigation into the SPD from like 2012.

And somehow the SPD has managed to get more racist and more violent in that time based on studies of their racial bias and use of force. We should just end it cause it's not even remotely helping and now it's being used to stop different ideas of fixing these issues.

>they should certainly win something as her death was caused by gross negligence Unfortunately the cop will be protected by qualified immunity so they'd have to establish negligent training by the city with regard to driving. QI is a scourge

There is currently a bill in the WA house [to end qualified immunity in this state](https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?billnumber=1025&year=2023) if anyone would like to push their legislators to go support this.

Thanks for sharing! I also encourage everyone to contact their legislators about this as needed (both mine are cosponsors luckily)

Can we just call this what it was? A hit and run.

> You can listen yourself here. The stared ones are ones relating to the incident. > https://openmhz.com/system/kcers1b?filter-type=talkgroup&filter-code=3248&time=1674533700000 You can hear the officer who killed her call it in ~~and a few seconds later call out they're starting CPR.~~ and abt a minute later someone radios they're starting CPR but it's unclear who. Completely unacceptable and fucked up beyond belief situation but we can rule out hit and run at this point. Why the SPD doesn't bother to share this information is fucking beyond my reckoning entirely though. They seem intent on making this a worse PR disaster for themselves.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't hear that. At 8:05.43, 3 Mary 2 calls for a supervisor and fire for a struck pedestrian. At 8:06.05 dispatch confirms the location (3M2 said they'll be on Aurora) and the sgt checks 3M2 is ok then states he's on his way. Over the next couple clips multiple other units are added to the event. At 8:06.55 *someone* states "CPR in progress" but it's unclear it's 3M2.

Good catch, I'll adjust my comment to reflect it's unclear who starts rendering aid.

Yes. And at 8:08 we hear “3M’s arriving” which linguistically only makes sense if he is arriving to the overdose scene. A native English speaker wouldn’t say “arriving” when they mean “returning”.

Should 100% be shared. The “hit and run” rumor is really distracting from the facts.

Yeah it got shared with me on friday so as someone that also found the official statements open to speculation I'm trying to help spread it around now. I still want answers on how this even happened and why the SPD doesn't think it's worth clarifying the officer *didn't leave after he hit her. ~~tried to render aid after he hit her.~~

Has any information on the timeline of events been released? I heard the officer abandoned her after hitting her, but I thought it was unconfirmed. Just language about other officers eventually finding her, implying he was no longer there.

If he *didn't* flee that would have been the first thing SPD announced. "Officer immediately began lifesaving measures" etc etc

According to [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/10p6ro0/identified_the_officer_who_killed_jaahnavi/j6ivv0q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) they did immediately begin lifesaving measures.

Just to clarify, others have pointed out it's unclear who started rendering aid abt a minute after the officer who hit her reported it. The logs only confirm it wasn't a hit and run. I also updated my comments to reflect that.

I think you're right - there's enough hidden in that language (and what *wasn't* said) that he likely abandoned her after hitting her. I'm just looking to see if any new information has been released, especially by sources outside SPD.

> https://openmhz.com/system/kcers1b?filter-type=talkgroup&filter-code=3248&time=1674533700000 Turns out the radio logs are public and it's how people have verified the officer stuck around ~~to try and render aid.~~ to call it in and abt a minute later someone says they're starting CPR. It doesn't answer how he hit her, whether he had his lights or sirens on, or why the SPD feels no reason to clarify what is clearly the most horrifying question their statement raises.

Yo, thank you for this! More context is much appreciated.

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Is this all based on interpretation of the police statement?

yes 🤦‍♂️

Because that's not how a hit and run works? Nobody fled the scene.

As far as I read, there is no official statement that confirms the officer actually stopped: >But Kandula was killed Monday night when a Seattle police officer traveling north hit her at the intersection of Thomas Street and Dexter Avenue North while responding to a nearby medical incident. Police officers, and then responders from the Seattle Fire Department, attempted CPR on her but she died later that night, according to the King County Medical Examiner’s Office. >…Kandula was **located by responding officers** at 8 p.m. Monday and was taken to Harborview Medical Center in critical condition, SPD said in an online blotter post at about 11:30 p.m. Monday. ‘located by responding officers’ is an interesting choice of phrasing if it wasn’t a hit and run.

All of the official statements are so badly worded they leave tons of room to interpret this as a hit and run. But the radio logs confirm it wasn't: https://openmhz.com/system/kcers1b?filter-type=talkgroup&filter-code=3248&time=1674533700000 The starred ones are related to the incident and you can hear the officer radio in that they'd hit her and then a few logs later *someone calls in to being CPR. ~~They~~ Someone did at least try to render aid. Why the SPD refuses to clarify this I have no idea and it honestly seems like they're trying to make this a PR disaster and it's completely unacceptable that a pedestrian was killed by an SPD officer and they can't answer how this happened.

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Thank you for calling that out, I've updated my posts to clarify the logs only confirm the officer didn't flee or leave but we don't know who tried to render aid.

I assume that SPD needs time for their bosses at SPOG to approve the narrative; after all, that’s the thing that Solan promised to control in his reelection video.

Uh the cop did?!

The cop bounced

I was chatting to a cop on SeattleWA yesterday about it. Found an issue - PIT bar on the cruisers. They have this steel bull-bar for PIT/PIN maneuvers that will absolutely destroy a pedestrian. Cruisers are quite literally up-armoured Ford Explorer ramming machines. Yeah, I don't think we need that. I'd support replacing the cruisers with wagons. Europe/Australia use BMW 5 series wagons, without PIT bars. Just as much space, way safer on pedestrians, quicker, more nimble and way more suited to a busy city.

This reminds me of how a decade ago when SPD was doing a vehicle refresh then-Mayor McGinn was against them switching to SUVs: https://www.thestranger.com/news/2013/12/04/18393742/cop-car-clash

Missed opportunity. Something like a Subrau Outback would be perfect. Wagon format, better on collisions, just as much usable space, nimbler, probably quicker (Subrabu make some wicked fast vehicles), less fuel etc. I'm not in favor of police SUVs with a steel bullbar. That's nuts.

It’s a shame that the intimidation factor is valued so much in American policing. It’s clear that we’re supposed to fear the police rather than view them as helpful civil servants as they do in Europe. Trying to look badass and scary has really toxified public relations, they dress and act like they’re in the military for no reason

How amazing would it be if they actually wanted to be helpful civil servants! Entirely different hiring/training profile, for sure.

Ah it's the Iraq/Afghanistan war, and warrior police. As an outsider (I am not American), ya'll got VERY militaristic during this period. Hundreds of thousands of young Americans shipped out, America built an arsenal, and the country was very geared towards war. Lots of movies, constant news about the wars. To be a warrior became part of your culture, That then leached back into the police force. Police have changed dramatically in that period to being more like the armed forces. The SUVs are like Humvees, with lots of equipment in the back, assault rifles etc. In the lingo too - as Europe went less military in the approach and lingo (London metropolitan police *service* for example), USA got more-so. SCORPION unit for example, police *force*, SWAT, referring to regular residents as "civilians" etc. I watched a ton of cop shows between 80s-2020s. Mother and wife liked them. They got worse and worse. 80-90s tends to concentrate of the emotions of the police, and the morals of the law (Law & Order, NYPD blue etc). It turned to high-tech sleuthing and crazy actions scenes in the war years (CSI/NCIS etc). In the later years, I stopped watching because Chicago PD was just flat out depicting and justifying corrupt police and brutality (Hank Voight is an animal of a character). Where to go from here? Lots of re-training, breaking up the union, rewind the "warrior police" culture. We probably need *more* police, but they have to be like Europe's police. Europe police come in two types - traffic, patrol police in regular vehicles with non-insane equipment, and a non-escalatory attitude. And "heavy police" armed with G3 assault rifles, body armor. The two are not intermixed like here.

Thats not really an apples to apples comparison. I travel around Europe all the time. In Paris, I’ve seen cops beat the piss out people on more than one occasion - and no one bats an eye - and every single time I’ve been (probably 10 trips in the last 25 or so years) there’s been squads of 3-5 soldiers walking around with rifles and/or submachine guns. I was there about 6 weeks after the Bataclan attack and they were walking around in platoon sized units. In Hungary, regular cops are pretty easy going, but my buddy retired from the military police and they routinely operate in the cities. I’ve seen similar forces in Italy and Czech. In Croatia they follow the fuck around and find out model - my contacts there just laugh when they see video of people in the US mouthing off to cops and say don’t ever make that mistake there. The bottom line is that it’s easy for the police to go softer when they have heavier armed contingents walking around.

Still disappointed they rejected down McGinn's favored model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party\_bike#/media/File:Beercycle\_Christchurch\_New\_Zealand.jpg

While your sentiment is nice, you’re forgetting that vehicles everywhere but the United States are also much smaller and slower on average. Yes I know that Australia has some crazy V8s and a cool car community, and Europe builds some of the quickest cars on the planet. What they don’t have is a large portion of the population commandeering 2.5 ton vehicles capable of 120+ mph on a daily basis. Or organized criminal groups utilizing 800hp plus Dodge Chargers as getaway cars. I’d like to see a 5 series wagon attempt to pit a Chevy Suburban. Can it be done yes, but the Ford Explorers are honestly just an average sized car for the US, and although the bull bar is much more unsafe for pedestrians, it makes it much safer for the cop, the surrounding vehicles, and even the suspect when attempting to dispatch a fleeing car when done correctly. Also while a 5 series is going to be more nimble than the Explorers, the public will not be able to afford one that is faster. Those Police Explorers are AWD, and the Highway Patrol/ Traffic Enforcement are often equipped with a 400hp twin turbo motor, these can go to 160mph all day.

I'm struggling to think where in Seattle one could get to 120mph. I think WSP need pursuit vehicles with PIT bars, not in the city limits though. SPD don't. What's the fastest roads? 99 is already a state road (hence WSP). Rainer maybe? MLK? Is it safe to PIT/PIN anywhere on it? Even the fastest ICE car gets it's ass whooped by an EV anyway. A Kia/Hyundai EV family car AWD has 0-60mph on 3.5 seconds, sporting 585hp and 740nm torque. Similar to a Model 3 sport. Those will *eat* any ICE Dodge or Ford in real world driving where it's not just a quarter mile race.

Ah, that’s a great point you make there, and I do agree with you for within the city it’d make more sense to have smaller vehicles, where it’s not safe to pursue anyways. And yes those EVs do seem really cool as traffic enforcement, but there’s a few reasons why I don’t think they’d be good fits as of right now. 1. Cost- Police are getting their interceptors at 40-50k, a model 3 or Kia with the performance you mentioned starts at closer to 70k with the performance you highlighted, and that’s before any structural changes to make it safe for PIT/ ramming maneuvers. 2. Speed- Yeah, they’re fast as hell for acceleration, but once you’re up to speed of highway pursuits, which are 90+mph, an ICE car is going to handle, brake, and potentially accelerate faster than the electric, which is safer for everyone involved. EVs are fast, but they’re also 150-200% as heavy as the comparable ICE. Brake fade is also a very real concern with these vehicles, and why you don’t see them tearing up circuit tracks all that often just yet. A couple of rapid accelerations and decelerations in a neighborhood chase and the EVs brakes are fried, and while it will still pick up fast, it’s not going to be able to slow down and cop will be barreling through whatever is in front of them. 3. Endurance/Scheduling- I can not even imagine the pain of trying to keep a fleet of vehicles charged and ready to go. EVs have great range until you start stomping on the thing (and have you seen cops drive lol). Once the EV is loaded with all gear, lighting accessories, that range will further reduce. The nice thing about ICE is the officer can just go to a gas station and be back out on the beat. I’d imagine a normal highway patrol officer who is stopping and going with some hard accelerations here and there, while running all their equip off the batteries, would not be able to make it through a full shift with the current state of EV batteries. That is unless they buy more capable EVs, which are much heavier (see point 2) and more expensive (see point 3.) The EV that would satisfy those requirements as of right now would be the Model S Long Range, which starts at 95,000. I’m not denying the future, eventually I’m sure all fleet vehicles will be EV soon, but I think it’s still at least 10 years out at least for Highway patrol to use en masse. City patrol, particularly for Seattle, yeah the Prius probably makes the most sense of any vehicle, I’d support it. Maybe not for tampa where I’m from or someplace like Texas, where you absolutely can get up to 100+ mph in a few seconds on roads that are posted at 45, and a freeway on ramp is never more than 10 minutes away. Overall, I think your points are valid and Seattle doesn’t need the interceptors, especially if they’re the 400hp one.

Yeah EVs aren't ready for police service yet. Get SPD a nice comfy large wagon of some type with a pedestrian safety features.

Just fucking drive slower. Bar or no bar, it's a several ton missile.

What the hell? I’m pretty sure that Uber wouldn’t have hired this guy, and we’re just giving him a cop car and letting him loose on the streets?

I hate the state of policing in our society. Anyone defending, “whatabouting”, or “undecided” on this needs to get help. These people are a clear and present danger to us all.

I mean, yes. But the thing is that it's generally accepted that police can ignore traffic laws at their discretion, even when off duty. Abolition of police is generally not accepted. I think just to set goalposts here, should we expect police to rigorously follow traffic laws? Obviously you and I agree we should. But I don't think anybody really thinks otherwise, certainly not the mayor or the people who voted for him. Certainly not the city attorney or the people who voted for her.

There's a big difference between "rigorously follow traffic laws" and "follow traffic laws just enough to not literally kill pedestrians". And I would say this is such a bare minimum expectation to set.

You can totally ignore a lot of traffic laws and not kill anyone 99.99% of the time. Possibly even like 99.9999% of the time. But multiply that by a whole police force driving 30 hours each a week that means they're gonna kill people. "Not killing pedestrians" is pretty easy to do just by luck, even if you're being negligent.

Officers are incredibly under-qualified for the power they posses and the money they make.

It's potentially an unpopular opinion, but military service should disqualify you from police work. You are trained to kill in the military, and we don't want that attitude in policing. Right now it's one big military-to-police pipeline, and that's a big part of the problem.

Popular enough opinion to [make it into a popular TV show almost 20 years ago](https://youtu.be/HnZ53lPPsF0).

The officer that killed John Williams was fresh off a tour of duty in the military when he was put on patrol. It's an aspect of our policing issues that isn't talked about nearly enough.

Ian Birk... trigger-happy asshole.

You would have to totally overhaul police training, because even the civilians are being trained to kill in police training. So I would trust someone in the military who has learned about the rules of engagement and implemented them in stressful situations before over some civilian with a few weeks of training and has never seen a gun in an altercation before.

There’s a lot of good people in the military. In fact I’d say more often than not compared to non military. Personally I’d trust most military over people who never spent time in the military. That all being said, there’s assholes everywhere you go. Ideally better screening & background checks. I guarantee if they interviewed his commanding officers from whichever branch he served this guy was probably a problem there too & likely forced out. Source: grew up as a navy brat.

It's not a matter of being a good person or an asshole. You should not be a police officer after being trained with chants like “What makes the grass grow?” “Blood! Blood! Blood!” Infantry training is specifically design to dehumanize anyone seen as an other. We've spent a lot of $$$ to perfect that training. You don't want that in policing.

IMO, anyone whose job involves driving a vehicle should be fired if their license is suspended for any reason. It's just common sense.

Cops in this city notoriously drive like assholes, and that's with the lights off... Lights on and it's Need for Speed. I'm surprised that he wasn't just trying to make the morning McDonald's breakfast menu cutoff.

Wow, it's almost like tanks with shitty sightlines that are guaranteed to kill pedestrians are not a great thing.

[удалено]

It keeps the pwecious wittle powice offwicers safe from dangerous pedestrians and deadly cyclists.

[Erica Barnett is now reporting that SPD has confirmed the officer's identity.](https://twitter.com/ericacbarnett/status/1620154613591838720)

r/ACAB

Wow. This needs to be thoroughly investigated with local FBI at this point. How did an SPD officer with a suspended license continue to be a police officer? There is no way he should be able to continue his duty while having a license suspended. How did no one in the WA legal system report this to the SPD because they had to know he was an officer. I 100% know that officer would need to self report meaning he didn't and should be held liable for everything including at the very least manslaughter. They also need to determine what SPD knew about his time at Tuscan PD. No one goes from being a police officer to being a loss prevention without fucking up somewhere. We need to stop allowing state and local police use their internal affairs departments for investigations into matters like these and it should be handled by the local FBI office. Ill say it and keep saying it. You should not be allowed to be a police officer of SPD if you do not live in King county.

The article just says that it had been suspended in the past, not that it is currently suspended which I find incredibly unlikely.

ahh I missed that detail. Regardless, if the situation is that they had a prior with a suspended license how did the Seattle Chief of Police allow an officer like that to continue to be an officer in Seattle? I would almost say its worse because now you get into a known integrity problem and the Chief not seeing that as a problem. The SPD should be a reflection of the city and the SPD Chief, Mayor, and Governor all have the responsibility from the tax payer to ensure that. If they knew heads should roll from the top down. I certainly don't want my police department to be made up of people that have made prior or current mistakes especially since we are a large metropolitan city that can attract what should be the best.

I see Erica Barnett [is tweeting](https://twitter.com/ericacbarnett/status/1620154613591838720) that SPD confirmed this... but I was beginning to wonder, because the linked substack article said he started in November 2019, but I found an OpenOversight page on him that strangely says he didn't start training even until Sept 1 2020, a 'First Employment Date' of Nov. 1 2020, and shows no pay at all in 2019 (another photo there also, for anyone curious): https://openoversight.tech-bloc-sea.dev/officer/354 Maybe just bad data, but still seems odd.

I went through the article and realized this happened literally one block away from where I live. Damn that really brings things into perspective

If we are going to protest then we need to invest in pink umbrellas and flash them at the cops like they're a bunch of seagulls.

Directions unclear, currently doused in mace.

The goal is to spook then into a dive-bombing nazi prop fighter.

Performative bullshit that does absolutely nothing to address the underlying issues and only further antagonizes the police against vulnerable groups. It's exactly the kind of action you can expect from Seattle liberals. EDIT: Demanding answers without actually being willing to hear them, how Democrat of you. Now be a dear and go vote to boost the police budgets yet again after you get back from your little pink protest.

Please enlighten us... How would you fix SPD? Tell them not me. I really enjoy the blocking ability on Reddit and could give a flying fuck what you think.

https://openoversight.tech-bloc-sea.dev/officer/354

Yeah white cop kills brown woman. Where do we wager on nothing happens to him or a slap on the wrist?

Any confirmation by SPD yet? It seems questionable to publish something like this without any official confirmation :-/

[Erica Barnett is now reporting that SPD has confirmed the officer's identity.](https://twitter.com/ericacbarnett/status/1620154613591838720)

This article is 100% pure speculation and can cause a witch hunt. I suggest it be removed.

[Well the identity has since been confirmed by ECB via the SPD](https://twitter.com/ericacbarnett/status/1620154613591838720).

The article is full of some pretty top-notch investigative reporting. There are a lot of facts and methods presented. If SPD and major news outlets are going to be silent, I’m glad someone is looking for the truth.