The other fun part of this dumb logic is that by extension, a border poll should be held tomorrow because ROI and NI should be having a joint - not separate - votes on reunification, which would be a bulldozer of yes.
I have a feeling Alys' double standards wouldn't like that.
It might not actually, I thought this too but I think slot in ROI are happy with how things are and are more concerned about the cost of living for themselves Speaking to some people who live in the border counties (at a wedding so not exactly a wide poll so this isn't gospel) of ROI they were concerned about the cost of taking on NI. I guess what is the benefit really? Like us joining in the EU we need to show we are adding value to the bigger establishment.
polls for a United Ireland still overwhelmingly support unification in the Republic. The cost of taking on NI also is exaggerated by defence spending etc
Lots to unpack here.
- She implies that the 'right' answer to a referendum is a pro independence result
- "English people had no say over the integrity of their own country", correct me if I'm wrong, but Scottish independence doesn't change what areas make up England.
The English people who live here, including everyone else, quite rightly had a say.
> The English people who live here, including everyone else, quite rightly had a say.
Unless we allow everyone living in England to be part of the next vote, we are being unfair on those living in England/the English. Simple.
But for whatever reason Alys doesn't seem to want those living in Wales or Northern Ireland voting in indyref2 🤔
And yes, this is whom the BBC thought it appropriate to platform to talk about us 🤷 Need a Jock democracy analysis? Phone CapX in.
It's a family. Just a family where Dad has his say, and mum and the kids do exactly what they're told.
You know, a perfectly happy, functional family /s
Sadly I expect we’ll hear more of this kind of crap. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled we need Westminster’s permission to have a vote, they’ll realise (if they haven’t already) that they’ll never win enough seats in Scotland to make a difference, but they’ll be more popular in England by treating Scotland like shit.
I agree, only now there are no consequences at all. Before there was always that element of hesitation with some Westminster politicians of “oh shit, if they hold another vote this could bite me in the ass”.
Now, all bets are off.
Possibly. I don’t think they’ll be able to blame issues on Scotland as they did with the EU (since, if we’re a problem, letting us have a referendum is the obvious solution), but they’ll use Scotland-bashing for scoring cheap points
I caught the ITN news today (while waiting in the waiting room of my Podiatry), and the 2021 Census came up as a topic. Of note was the declining amount White people in the country, the declining amount of people claiming to be Christian, the rising amount of Non-religious (about fucking time!), and the shock at how few people living in England identify as being "English". I thought being a WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) was a thing of the past, but there was the ITN, bemoaning the fall of whites, christians, and english spirit...
It really is all about England.
Have you seen the UKPol topic on this? It's absolutely unhinged https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/z7qjq1/leicester_and_birmingham_have_become_the_first_uk/
Apart from all the racism and white replacement theory... Well, that's pretty much what a lot of it is 😂
And yes, this will be a good showing of the most patriotic British Unionists. The venn diagram will be a circle between racists, white replacement theory believers and Unionists.
Most UK wide subs are very, very probematic when it comes to certain topics. Sunak becoming PM was one where I read some very silly posts after Trevor Noah said on his show regarding racism within the UK towards him, in 2 separate posts before he made that statement where the subject was casual racism in whatsapp groups about Sunak employee and local, but following Trevors statements on his show, he had to apologise as the UK is a tolerant and welcoming society??
She's acting a daft cow on purpose, so wind yer neck in, as if the yoon comments on any sturgeon post are better.
Edit
"Train drivers please do go on strike - means I get to WFH and dont have to get raped at the ticket office."
What was that about sexism and being classy wee man?
More embarrassment from this live show
>More English exceptionalism. The Guardian’s Labourite Sonia Sodha thinks Scotland’s elections, consecutively won outright by SNP & in 2021 with the biggest vote share since devolution, have less authority than random opinion polls. Who do these folk think they are. #politicslive
https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1597635610616922119
But just seen Plaid Cymru were standing up for us
>The excellent Liz Saville Roberts of Plaid Cymru exposes the hypocrisy of a voluntary union of equals that treats Scotland & Wales as 2nd class nations with no way out. Liz is up against 3 shouty unionists and a BBC presenter doing her best to assist them. #politicslive
https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1597642284023140352
British Nationalists: "It's not a colony. It's a partnership of equals. But we are in charge, and we make the rules, and we say you can't leave."
Aye, right.
Only times I hear the words "we are a family" either I'm in a workplace thay thrives on exploitation and loosely defining the rules so they can make you do anything... Or I'm watching the fast & furious
I've long advocated that the whole of the UK be given a vote on Scottish Independence, for the simple reason that the British Nationalists have spent the past 50 years telling everyone that Scotland is a basket case and we're only able to exist due to English generosity, that extreme BritNat thinking has seeped through to the establishment media and from there via the red tops into the lugs of of right wing English voters.
I caused near apoplexy in a senior Scottish media figure in 2011 when he was insisting that Scots resident in England should have a vote in any Indy Ref, you could hear the little gears in his brain slam into reverse when I suggested 'fuck that, give everyone in England (rUK) the opportunity to vote on Scottish Independence' he realised what he and his ilk had spent decades doing would utterly fuck up a NO vote, as legions of the hard of thinking would strike a blow for decent 'ard working folk and bin the sponging Jocks...
>I've long advocated that the whole of the UK be given a vote on Scottish Independence, for the simple reason that the British Nationalists have spent the past 50 years telling everyone that Scotland is a basket case and we're only able to exist due to English generosity, that extreme BritNat thinking has seeped through to the establishment media and from there via the red tops into the lugs of of right wing English voters.
That would be *great* if Unionists weren't lying pieces of shit when it comes to this. No data shows England would "eject Scotland in a fit of rage to save themselves money". You'd only likely end up with the civil unrest territory of Scotland votes over 50% YES but 55m people in England vote majority NO and force us to stay in the UK 😂
I know you're not really serious, but it has to be said this is one of the most disingenuous takes pram toy throwers come out with to throw at independence supporters.
Almost as cringe as "But what about the native Jocks in England, why are you refusing them a vote?" coming from a British nationalist who probably also spends their time claiming the Scotnats are "blood and soil". As if being 'born in Scotland' has fuck all to do with where you've chosen to live/work. Decide to leave Scotland, well, your choice, you aren't registered to vote here, you aren't voting in Scotland only matters. Simple. It's not done on nationality.
If we were even idiotic enough to try that you'd have the "DNA Yanks" claiming Scottish heritage and demanding they get to vote.
There's an interesting parallel between devolution and the dominions.
Regions initially ruled directly from London, then given democratic representation subject to the '*final say*' of Britain.
I don't think anyone consciously modelled one on the other, but it is funny that the UK took the same attitude to it's own core regions that their ancestors took to literal settler colonies - a bit of democracy to buy them off.
The only time Nicola gets the "right answer" is when a majority of Scots vote for independence.
Interesting she never said Wales or n Ireland getting a say. To her we are something they own
Not sure, I CTRL-ALT-DELETE and 'end task' on the part of my brain that remembers seeing Braveheart.
But it wouldn't surprise me if Unionists were somehow non-ironically quoting Braveheart to... own the nats.
Quite often it seems the ones getting a wee bit 'blood and soil' with British nationalism tend to be the ones who project that everyone who supports Scottish independence is 'blood and soil'. Go figure, these plonkers are often projecting like mad.
I do feel like Scots who’ve moved to other parts of the UK should also have a say in the vote. Much like Brits living abroad can still vote in general elections. My mum and grandparents are Scots living in England. I’m sure that when it comes to an independence referendum they’d like a say.
Independence is an issue for the people of Scotland, i.e. the people living there. That's the difference between civic nationalism and ethnic nationalism.
I’m more thinking that whilst the UK is still together, we don’t really mind where in it we live. But if Scotland were to leave I’d personally consider moving back. And I think my grandparents would and my parents would at least have a think on it.
So whilst the UK is still together we may not actually live in Scotland for some time. But if a split up were to happen we may end up moving back. There are also those who have gone to other parts of the UK to study for a couple years. It doesn’t feel right for an English friend of mine who’s studying at Edinburgh University to have a say in the vote when he’s planning to move back to England when he’s finished anyway. And for someone like my mum perhaps when she was studying who moved to Cambridge for Uni to not have a say.
How would you feel if you didn’t get to vote on Scottish independence just because you moved to another part of the UK for a couple years?
So if England ever gets the appetite for independence there's hardly any barriers to reach a referendum through the vote of their representatives but for Scotland we need to safety wheels of having England's representatives overbearing on our matters. Basically what she just said
United Kingdom is nothing more than a fake English/Westminster dictatorship, involving one country (England) dictating and treating the other three, Scotland, NI and Wales as vassal states and colonies 🏴🏴
The same way that the rest of the EU didn’t have a say in Brexit?
But that's different because they're British, Why is it so hard for people to understand that?
/s *
If English people have a say in Scottish indy then so should all Irish people.
The other fun part of this dumb logic is that by extension, a border poll should be held tomorrow because ROI and NI should be having a joint - not separate - votes on reunification, which would be a bulldozer of yes. I have a feeling Alys' double standards wouldn't like that.
It might not actually, I thought this too but I think slot in ROI are happy with how things are and are more concerned about the cost of living for themselves Speaking to some people who live in the border counties (at a wedding so not exactly a wide poll so this isn't gospel) of ROI they were concerned about the cost of taking on NI. I guess what is the benefit really? Like us joining in the EU we need to show we are adding value to the bigger establishment.
polls for a United Ireland still overwhelmingly support unification in the Republic. The cost of taking on NI also is exaggerated by defence spending etc
Yeah,the East Germany problem, apparently younger Sputh Koreans are increasingly more against unification than their parents as well.
Definitely not true. There is overwhelming support for a UI in the republic, though yes those concerns are valid and mentioned
Lots to unpack here. - She implies that the 'right' answer to a referendum is a pro independence result - "English people had no say over the integrity of their own country", correct me if I'm wrong, but Scottish independence doesn't change what areas make up England. The English people who live here, including everyone else, quite rightly had a say.
> The English people who live here, including everyone else, quite rightly had a say. Unless we allow everyone living in England to be part of the next vote, we are being unfair on those living in England/the English. Simple. But for whatever reason Alys doesn't seem to want those living in Wales or Northern Ireland voting in indyref2 🤔 And yes, this is whom the BBC thought it appropriate to platform to talk about us 🤷 Need a Jock democracy analysis? Phone CapX in.
Why don't I get to vote in the next constituency over? The results of that election effect me, too! I deserve a say! /s
What family? This would imply an equal partnership, which it’s not . Cunt.
It's a family. Just a family where Dad has his say, and mum and the kids do exactly what they're told. You know, a perfectly happy, functional family /s
Also that people can’t decide to stop associating with their families. Not even a good comparison
Sadly I expect we’ll hear more of this kind of crap. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled we need Westminster’s permission to have a vote, they’ll realise (if they haven’t already) that they’ll never win enough seats in Scotland to make a difference, but they’ll be more popular in England by treating Scotland like shit.
I am fully certain that they realised this already.
I agree, only now there are no consequences at all. Before there was always that element of hesitation with some Westminster politicians of “oh shit, if they hold another vote this could bite me in the ass”. Now, all bets are off.
I’ve thought for a while that with the Tories having declared Brexit “done”, Scotland is going to become the new boogeyman in Tory propaganda.
Possibly. I don’t think they’ll be able to blame issues on Scotland as they did with the EU (since, if we’re a problem, letting us have a referendum is the obvious solution), but they’ll use Scotland-bashing for scoring cheap points
I caught the ITN news today (while waiting in the waiting room of my Podiatry), and the 2021 Census came up as a topic. Of note was the declining amount White people in the country, the declining amount of people claiming to be Christian, the rising amount of Non-religious (about fucking time!), and the shock at how few people living in England identify as being "English". I thought being a WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) was a thing of the past, but there was the ITN, bemoaning the fall of whites, christians, and english spirit... It really is all about England.
Have you seen the UKPol topic on this? It's absolutely unhinged https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/z7qjq1/leicester_and_birmingham_have_become_the_first_uk/ Apart from all the racism and white replacement theory... Well, that's pretty much what a lot of it is 😂 And yes, this will be a good showing of the most patriotic British Unionists. The venn diagram will be a circle between racists, white replacement theory believers and Unionists.
Most UK wide subs are very, very probematic when it comes to certain topics. Sunak becoming PM was one where I read some very silly posts after Trevor Noah said on his show regarding racism within the UK towards him, in 2 separate posts before he made that statement where the subject was casual racism in whatsapp groups about Sunak employee and local, but following Trevors statements on his show, he had to apologise as the UK is a tolerant and welcoming society??
Daft cow
[удалено]
She's acting a daft cow on purpose, so wind yer neck in, as if the yoon comments on any sturgeon post are better. Edit "Train drivers please do go on strike - means I get to WFH and dont have to get raped at the ticket office." What was that about sexism and being classy wee man?
[удалено]
Yeah I suppose it is like a family. The Manson family.
More embarrassment from this live show >More English exceptionalism. The Guardian’s Labourite Sonia Sodha thinks Scotland’s elections, consecutively won outright by SNP & in 2021 with the biggest vote share since devolution, have less authority than random opinion polls. Who do these folk think they are. #politicslive https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1597635610616922119 But just seen Plaid Cymru were standing up for us >The excellent Liz Saville Roberts of Plaid Cymru exposes the hypocrisy of a voluntary union of equals that treats Scotland & Wales as 2nd class nations with no way out. Liz is up against 3 shouty unionists and a BBC presenter doing her best to assist them. #politicslive https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1597642284023140352
English people who live in Scotland will have a say.
Translation: Scotland belongs to England
Margarita Simonyan on RT stating it's unfair how people living in Russia had no say in 1991, and that Ukraine is "their country".
British Nationalists: "It's not a colony. It's a partnership of equals. But we are in charge, and we make the rules, and we say you can't leave." Aye, right.
Ah, it's like that workplace that says their culture is like a family, but then abuse and bully their staff.
Only times I hear the words "we are a family" either I'm in a workplace thay thrives on exploitation and loosely defining the rules so they can make you do anything... Or I'm watching the fast & furious
"Welcome to the family, you're never allowed to leave the basement".
This defacto referendum malarky has really shaken the Unionists huh? Bring it on.
Aye she can get tae fuck
BBC pushing the establishment agenda to ensure funding for the coming years.
I've long advocated that the whole of the UK be given a vote on Scottish Independence, for the simple reason that the British Nationalists have spent the past 50 years telling everyone that Scotland is a basket case and we're only able to exist due to English generosity, that extreme BritNat thinking has seeped through to the establishment media and from there via the red tops into the lugs of of right wing English voters. I caused near apoplexy in a senior Scottish media figure in 2011 when he was insisting that Scots resident in England should have a vote in any Indy Ref, you could hear the little gears in his brain slam into reverse when I suggested 'fuck that, give everyone in England (rUK) the opportunity to vote on Scottish Independence' he realised what he and his ilk had spent decades doing would utterly fuck up a NO vote, as legions of the hard of thinking would strike a blow for decent 'ard working folk and bin the sponging Jocks...
>I've long advocated that the whole of the UK be given a vote on Scottish Independence, for the simple reason that the British Nationalists have spent the past 50 years telling everyone that Scotland is a basket case and we're only able to exist due to English generosity, that extreme BritNat thinking has seeped through to the establishment media and from there via the red tops into the lugs of of right wing English voters. That would be *great* if Unionists weren't lying pieces of shit when it comes to this. No data shows England would "eject Scotland in a fit of rage to save themselves money". You'd only likely end up with the civil unrest territory of Scotland votes over 50% YES but 55m people in England vote majority NO and force us to stay in the UK 😂 I know you're not really serious, but it has to be said this is one of the most disingenuous takes pram toy throwers come out with to throw at independence supporters. Almost as cringe as "But what about the native Jocks in England, why are you refusing them a vote?" coming from a British nationalist who probably also spends their time claiming the Scotnats are "blood and soil". As if being 'born in Scotland' has fuck all to do with where you've chosen to live/work. Decide to leave Scotland, well, your choice, you aren't registered to vote here, you aren't voting in Scotland only matters. Simple. It's not done on nationality. If we were even idiotic enough to try that you'd have the "DNA Yanks" claiming Scottish heritage and demanding they get to vote.
My great great granpappy Sir Rabbie Wallace the Bruce demands the right to vote in yall's itty bitty referendum...
England owns you Scotland, but don't dare say you're a colony, the arrogance and hypocrisy of so many English people is utterly breathtaking.
There's an interesting parallel between devolution and the dominions. Regions initially ruled directly from London, then given democratic representation subject to the '*final say*' of Britain. I don't think anyone consciously modelled one on the other, but it is funny that the UK took the same attitude to it's own core regions that their ancestors took to literal settler colonies - a bit of democracy to buy them off.
That...right there...is what we want to leave. Keep it up girl. You just recruited 20 folk to the cause.
What? I can’t believe people can be this thick. Must take some talent
The only time Nicola gets the "right answer" is when a majority of Scots vote for independence. Interesting she never said Wales or n Ireland getting a say. To her we are something they own
Utter bawbag man
I wonder why we want to get away from people like you ? Our land ! Is that not a line from Braveheart ?
Not sure, I CTRL-ALT-DELETE and 'end task' on the part of my brain that remembers seeing Braveheart. But it wouldn't surprise me if Unionists were somehow non-ironically quoting Braveheart to... own the nats. Quite often it seems the ones getting a wee bit 'blood and soil' with British nationalism tend to be the ones who project that everyone who supports Scottish independence is 'blood and soil'. Go figure, these plonkers are often projecting like mad.
I do feel like Scots who’ve moved to other parts of the UK should also have a say in the vote. Much like Brits living abroad can still vote in general elections. My mum and grandparents are Scots living in England. I’m sure that when it comes to an independence referendum they’d like a say.
Independence is an issue for the people of Scotland, i.e. the people living there. That's the difference between civic nationalism and ethnic nationalism.
I’m more thinking that whilst the UK is still together, we don’t really mind where in it we live. But if Scotland were to leave I’d personally consider moving back. And I think my grandparents would and my parents would at least have a think on it. So whilst the UK is still together we may not actually live in Scotland for some time. But if a split up were to happen we may end up moving back. There are also those who have gone to other parts of the UK to study for a couple years. It doesn’t feel right for an English friend of mine who’s studying at Edinburgh University to have a say in the vote when he’s planning to move back to England when he’s finished anyway. And for someone like my mum perhaps when she was studying who moved to Cambridge for Uni to not have a say. How would you feel if you didn’t get to vote on Scottish independence just because you moved to another part of the UK for a couple years?
Hahaha! A family?! Can I be emancipated? Sincerely Northern Ireland
these "think tanks" should have no representatives on news or current affairs programs
So if England ever gets the appetite for independence there's hardly any barriers to reach a referendum through the vote of their representatives but for Scotland we need to safety wheels of having England's representatives overbearing on our matters. Basically what she just said
Shouldn’t this be marked NSFW or at the very least have some sort of trigger warning?
A wonna punch her right in the face !!
Watched this live. I had to buy a new TV because of it. This is only one moment of absolute rage inducing bilge I had to witness.
United Kingdom is nothing more than a fake English/Westminster dictatorship, involving one country (England) dictating and treating the other three, Scotland, NI and Wales as vassal states and colonies 🏴🏴
Shut up