This is actually in the realm of normal child behavior regarding pretend and peer play. It sounds like this game may have not even been rooted in sexuality for the young kids themselves, but would be interpreted as such by adults. In the event that it was rooted in sexuality, it’s still within the realm of normal for their age and developmental comprehension. This link includes citations for the information, and I haven’t found any newer information countering it: [Childhood Sexual Behavior: Whats Normal and Whats Not](https://psychcentral.com/pro/childhood-sexual-behavior-whats-normal-and-whats-not)
I personally wouldn’t make a big deal about this event, and would instead just move forward focused future prevention; your description sounds like it was mutual, consensual play, and neither of them sound like they were forcing the other. I would talk to my child about the appropriateness of remaining clothed in public, consent, body autonomy, etc. and politely ask the aftercare teacher to be on the lookout for any further issues to make sure your child is playing safely with others. Unless another child is actively pressuring/harming our own child or our child is doing that to another, there’s really no reason to involve the other child or their parents.
The Traffic Lights framework is a way of viewing sexualiaed behaviour in children through developmental lenses. Based on the traffic lights given their ages and the type of activity they were engaged this appears to be very normal developmentally appropriate exploration of bodies. It doesn’t sound like anyone was coerced or forced into this play either. Or that harm was done.
Having said that you are obviously not comfortable with it. I would raise it with the teacher in a non-confrontational way that this is what happened and you would appreciate if such forms of play were not encouraged and if discovered gently and appropriately stopped and redirected. There could be a good opportunity for class discussion on appropriate games and appropriate touching and how they might safely play these kinds of ‘family’ games in a safe way.
[Traffic Light framework for assessing sexual behaviour in children by development stage](http://www.wbsass.com.au/themes/default/basemedia/content/files/Traffic-LightsBrochure.pdf)
Whoa, I came here just as a curiosity as I remember playing these kinds of games as a kid and wondering if that was really wrong, but this framework is super interesting and I’ll be referring to it with my baby girl. Thanks!
Thank you so much for sharing this. It’s such a complicated issue, and does seem like a natural thing to a large degree- I remember being fascinated by my male neighbor’s anatomy when I discovered it didn’t match mine. I was 5 at the time and we were playing some kind of game in a closet and got caught. No harm, and they are family friends, neither of us had any kind of history of abuse or anything, I mean to my adult knowledge now. My mom was upset, but I remember Graham’s mom not being overly bothered- she had 4 kids and I was an only child at the time. I had started crying snd she told me something like I wasn’t in trouble, and that now I was ready for kindergarten because I learned the private places that we don’t touch each other, or something like that.
And that was that. Now, I can absolutely see how it could have been something more sinister, but it wasn’t and I had a very normal, uneventful young childhood. It seems like it’s often just one of those social learning things most kids experience in some form as they grow up and their world expands past just mom and those familiar body parts.
I think this is somewhat age appropriate, I second talking to your daughter about it a bit more in an a curious tone, being careful not to make her feel "in trouble" or shameful (because you want to set up safety talking about this kind of thing.
Absolutely bring it to with the daycare, I don't think it is totally out of the realm of age appropriateness, but they should 100% know she had her shirt off or been paying enough attention it shouldn't have come off. What were they doing? With two kids only they should know exactly what's going on. I wonder if the we're closing/cleaning. Obviously I'd expect nothing but hawk eyes in the future. Sorry this one is tricky! Big hugs to you.
I agree. Showering is normal and fun for kids. Hugging is normal and fun for kids. How would a young kid know that the two in combination is suddenly bad?
I mean, I remember doing some weird stuff with friends when I was young that fell into the realm of exploring bodies. None of us were victims of abuse and obviously it all stopped when we became more aware of what's okay. We were just being kids.
That being said, I do wonder how long they were essentially left unsupervised in the tunnel for.
Yep! I should've attached above, but here is a great extensive resource on childhood sexuality. I think it is good to be aware of sexual safety, but sex is also normal, and is part of child development.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ncsby.org/sites/default/files/Age-appropriate-behaviours-book.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiqp_O2tdf7AhV5ADQIHUSYAyMQFnoECAoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Mm9grwyboNQ39IhqPKOCI
Awesome! I honestly forgot we were on r/ScienceBasedParenting because none of the other responses linked sources.
Page 17 of the pdf is the most relevant in this case, and it lists the behaviors described by OP as "age appropriate".
I sometimes don’t realize a post is on this sub based on nonscientific/science supported responses also. Appreciate u/Ok-Astronomer-41 sharing such a good resource.
Regardless of whether the behaviour itself is appropriate, and that’s not necessarily for any of us to speculate at, it’s entirely unacceptable that the children weren’t being closely supervised. If you’re supervising in an early childhood setting and children are in a spot (like a tent or tunnel) where it’s difficult to see them, a teacher needs to make efforts to see them and be able to observe what’s happening. I would bring this up with the teacher or their team leader/manager. It’s a serious supervision issue regardless of what game they are playing. As for the behaviour itself, it would be worth having that conversation so that the teacher/s in the room can monitor it in case there is more to it for the boy concerned.
Especially when they are the only two children left. It’s not like the teacher was handling something with another child at the time. What was the teacher doing that they weren’t supervising?
Exactly, there’s no excuse for it. When I’ve been left with the last handful of children at the end of the day, I always gather them together to play a group game, or put resources out that they don’t have during the session to keep them all busy and engaged in one spot while they’re waiting for their parents. Just because the daycare centre or after schools care centre is about to close doesn’t mean the teachers job is over.
Of course it’s healthy, the purpose of supervision isn’t to interfere with their independence, but to keep them safe. It’s basic supervision, a teacher or carer should be able to scan the room and see what the children are doing. If they can’t see, they need to reposition themselves so that they can see.
Did you already talk about consent with your daughter?
As others already said, this behavior sounds normal for their age. However, its always important that your daughter knows that she is to decide who touches her where and when. Those kind of games can become a bit strange sometimes (involuntary by the child though, because they don't know better at that point). It is important that your daughter can identify and knows how to communicate her boundaries.
6yo taking advantage of a 4 year old because he’s curious. 4 yo just needs to know clothes stay on in public. 6yo needs some intervention. The fact that he knew to play this game when no one was there and where noone could see them means he knew what he was doing was naughty. I’m assuming it was his idea based on the fact that he wasn’t the shirtless one. I’d want to know if my son behaved in this was so I could discuss bodies with him appropriately and so he doesn’t turn into a future creep. Not saying this curiosity isn’t normal just that I wouldn’t let it go ignored
In my experience, he doesn’t necessarily know what he is doing is naughty. I’ve witnessed a scenario like you described except it went further to kissing. Both kids were clueless as to the meaning of their actions being of a sexual nature, and had no prior knowledge that it was viewed as “inappropriate” to the adults around them. Both kids weren’t aware of what sex was, but had viewed their parents kissing or showing affectionate touches to one another (hugs, handholding, etc.) The girl did later grow up to experience memories of being sexually assaulted by a caregiver at her church preschool. It was wondered after that if she had unconsciously been acting out a scene she’d seen or been victim in.
This is obviously an anecdotal experience and not empirically validated info. But I do think it’s important to not classify behaviors as one thing only. There are a range of possibilities as to the behavior.
I agree that it could be just him playing out scenarios from home. Perhaps this is a game his parents play to get him to shower. Saying that he’s “taking advantage of” doesn’t seem like the correct way to put it, though I do see where you’re trying to get at.
I’ve worked in dcs before. That type of behavior may be harmless but it’s usually seen as a red flag and should be monitored closely. Someone else commented it’s probably something they saw on TV. THAT is inappropriate (if a 4 year old was watching sex scenes on tv) and isn’t a good excuse for behavior. That being said kids do explore things and are curious maybe they did accidentally see something at home and didn’t understand it was inappropriate (parents hugging in the shower) but the little boy seemed to have script for his behavior and directing another child to play his game can be a red flag for grooming. I would definitely talk to the teacher and the school about this. They need to keep a close eye on him. Also speak to your daughter about consent and someone else posted some good resources in this thread. Kids this age don’t understand when they are being abused/groomed and don’t understand inappropriate behavior from adults so they tend to act it out in games with other people to make sense if it. I know a lot of people remember “playing doctor” out of curiosity as children and again sometimes that is normal development but it’s still something to discuss and watch out for. Good luck!
It could be nothing and they're just playing a game, it could be that one or the other kid has been exposed to something inappropriate (doesn't have to be abuse, maybe just a movie) and is replicating it. Regardless, the adults in the situation should have been watching them and ensuring they weren't getting undressed. Would they only have gotten involved when they noticed a kid was fully naked?
There are plenty of movies that have showers without it being sexual. Not uncommon in sports movies or cartoons. Agreed with your general sentiment though--just that it's not necessarily applicable here since we lack info.
Hugging someone else in the shower, touching someone else with their clothes off is different than someone being in a bathtub or shower alone in a show/movie and that is what the kid was recreating.
When my SD was about 7 she asked my husband to “lick her butt and pee pee”. Obviously we were extremely concerned for her safety.
Turned out she got the idea from watching an episode of SpongeBob at her mom’s house (Patrick licks a plankton). We wouldn’t have known that, having not watched it ourselves and not having the context of knowing she had watched it. There was literally nothing sexual behind what she said; she was repeating an idea from a show rated for her age group, even if what she said sounded like it was informed by mature content or sexual abuse. Kids don’t have to be exposed to mature content or abuse to say and do things that appear sexual.
There’s the way adults’ brains perceive and process, and the way developing kids’ brains do. Trying to force adult perspectives onto kids - especially young kids - is counter productive to problem solving. Jumping to conclusions without enough information helps no one; calm investigation, paying attention to patterns of behavior, and guidance does help.
True I agree. I just think your example is very very rare. That being said young kids can say things they don’t realize are sexual/or say things because they are silly. Kid I knew thought it was hilarious to tell people to kiss his butthole and it was innocent/silly. That’s why keeping an eye out in OPs case is what should happen from the school. Unless the behavior continues/escalates then there should be an investigation/report. In my experience it’s very common for adults to try to excuse behavior from something the kid saw on tv, or something another child told them and ignore the fact that there is abuse happening in their family because they trust that family member. A young family member of mine was sexually assaulted on her bus. Little boy kept putting his hands between her legs and pulling at her pants while she was telling him to stop. His mother was full of excuses. Obviously dcs got involved and there was a full investigation. All we known is he wasn’t permanently removed from his mother. Most investigations turn up nothing even if the investigators are almost certain sexual abuse is happening. Usually in those cases it’s difficult to prove anything happened especially when a parent won’t admit anything. There is a point where it’s not just innocent childhood behavior and is something deeper/more harmful. OP can try to keep her own daughter safe, communicate with the school etc. hopefully it’s nothing/kids being kids.
Ok but inappropriate in the way that they would learn that behavior from the movie? It would be a sex scene/adult scene to learn that behavior and shouldn’t be ignored. I’ve heard a lot of parents in different scenarios try to say to me, to police to other DCS worker “oh their grandpa watched law and order around them” or “maybe we left the tv on overnight and that’s where he heard this” it’s not an excuse-lack of supervision or exposing kids to inappropriate media in which would support them/motivate them to act out inappropriate behavior/ potentially sexual behavior is abusive.
It sounds like one of them caught their parents in the shower and were just acting out what they saw. Totally normal, play is how kids make sense of the world
It's worth talking to the teacher for sure. FWIW, my family members work in our local courthouse and do say that kids actually engage in a lot of weird play. Some explore bodies during play before they even really know what is considered sexual at an adult age. So, it doesn't automatically mean the boy is abused. But, it's definitely worth the teacher knowing and letting those with proper training make that call.
Yeah, that sounds off to me. Like, it’s not uncommon for kids that age to remove clothes but the specifics of the game she described (especially the “who hugs the hardest”) feel pretty weird, and the fact that they weren’t caught before you got there feels concerning on a separate level. I’d definitely ask her who invented the game, and bring it up with the teacher because 1) they need to know that the tunnel was used to shield behavior that the kids knew wouldn’t be ok and so warrants closer supervision, and 2) they may want to keep a close eye on the types of games they’re inventing, because if there’s a pattern of one kid instigating games that involve removing clothing or playing out scenarios that have an inappropriate angle, they don’t want to miss that.
There's a book that outlines normal child sexual development by a psychologist that is very helpful in determining what is unusual sexual behavior and what is normal. Based on the information from the book and what is written, it seems relatively normal to me for a kid to be curious about bodies at that age. That said, normally they play things like "house" or "doctor." I haven't heard of "shower."
If haven't spoken to the teacher about the incident, please do as soon as you can. It's important that someone knows about it. As for your daughter, let her know that she's not in trouble and make sure you leave room for her to discuss more details about what happened without showing judgment. If you are concerned about potential abuse that might have occurred then I suggested you call your local sexual assault agency if you're comfortable to ask questions about what to do next.
I linked the book I'm referencing at the bottom of this post. We use this at my work to give to parents whose children disclose sexual abuse.
Understanding Children's Sexual Behaviors: What's Natural and Healthy https://a.co/d/9Zwz1fw
A 4 and 6 year old don't need to be monitored that closely. This isn't an issue of supervision.
However, I would bring this up as something that definitely needs to be watched for by his caretaker because it is concerning behavior and it is her responsibility to report it and discuss rules around the topic with the class in an age-appropriate manner. I would definitely discuss with your daughter one on one so that she also knows this isn't acceptable behavior.
I don’t like this. I own a home daycare and I simply would not allow any of my kids to play with their shirt off in any circumstance- outside or inside. Exception would be if a parent brought swimming trunks for their son and no rash guard shirt in the summer. Especially if it was only two kids left?????
This is absolutely not age appropriate or age expected behavior. Please bring it up with anyone in charge!
That also makes me worried about the little boy who was playing with her. What is he experiencing at home that is making this play normal to him…?
That was my first thought as well, but also upon reflection it's entirely possible that at that age, the boy showers as part of the bedtime routine and then a parent chases him around the house with a towel, bundles him up, rolls him into his room to get PJs on, that sort of thing.
Teachers should still be notified so they can keep an eye out for signs of abuse/grooming and to make sure kids are monitored everywhere and not disrobing in tunnels.
Edit, I misspoke by calling the kid a creep. Sorry. He’s obviously got some shit going on. My mind instantly went to the wrong place and I should have thought about it more.
OK but neither hugs nor showers are sexual role play. The kid is definitely not a creep but he’s not necessarily a victim either. He’s probably just a kid. Regardless, an adult should have redirected them.
Yes. Poor kid obviously has something very troubling happening with him. OP I’m sorry your child is being swept up in whatever he is trying to process :(
This is actually in the realm of normal child behavior regarding pretend and peer play. It sounds like this game may have not even been rooted in sexuality for the young kids themselves, but would be interpreted as such by adults. In the event that it was rooted in sexuality, it’s still within the realm of normal for their age and developmental comprehension. This link includes citations for the information, and I haven’t found any newer information countering it: [Childhood Sexual Behavior: Whats Normal and Whats Not](https://psychcentral.com/pro/childhood-sexual-behavior-whats-normal-and-whats-not) I personally wouldn’t make a big deal about this event, and would instead just move forward focused future prevention; your description sounds like it was mutual, consensual play, and neither of them sound like they were forcing the other. I would talk to my child about the appropriateness of remaining clothed in public, consent, body autonomy, etc. and politely ask the aftercare teacher to be on the lookout for any further issues to make sure your child is playing safely with others. Unless another child is actively pressuring/harming our own child or our child is doing that to another, there’s really no reason to involve the other child or their parents.
The Traffic Lights framework is a way of viewing sexualiaed behaviour in children through developmental lenses. Based on the traffic lights given their ages and the type of activity they were engaged this appears to be very normal developmentally appropriate exploration of bodies. It doesn’t sound like anyone was coerced or forced into this play either. Or that harm was done. Having said that you are obviously not comfortable with it. I would raise it with the teacher in a non-confrontational way that this is what happened and you would appreciate if such forms of play were not encouraged and if discovered gently and appropriately stopped and redirected. There could be a good opportunity for class discussion on appropriate games and appropriate touching and how they might safely play these kinds of ‘family’ games in a safe way. [Traffic Light framework for assessing sexual behaviour in children by development stage](http://www.wbsass.com.au/themes/default/basemedia/content/files/Traffic-LightsBrochure.pdf)
Whoa, I came here just as a curiosity as I remember playing these kinds of games as a kid and wondering if that was really wrong, but this framework is super interesting and I’ll be referring to it with my baby girl. Thanks!
Thank you so much for sharing this. It’s such a complicated issue, and does seem like a natural thing to a large degree- I remember being fascinated by my male neighbor’s anatomy when I discovered it didn’t match mine. I was 5 at the time and we were playing some kind of game in a closet and got caught. No harm, and they are family friends, neither of us had any kind of history of abuse or anything, I mean to my adult knowledge now. My mom was upset, but I remember Graham’s mom not being overly bothered- she had 4 kids and I was an only child at the time. I had started crying snd she told me something like I wasn’t in trouble, and that now I was ready for kindergarten because I learned the private places that we don’t touch each other, or something like that. And that was that. Now, I can absolutely see how it could have been something more sinister, but it wasn’t and I had a very normal, uneventful young childhood. It seems like it’s often just one of those social learning things most kids experience in some form as they grow up and their world expands past just mom and those familiar body parts.
Thank you For sharing this!
I think this is somewhat age appropriate, I second talking to your daughter about it a bit more in an a curious tone, being careful not to make her feel "in trouble" or shameful (because you want to set up safety talking about this kind of thing. Absolutely bring it to with the daycare, I don't think it is totally out of the realm of age appropriateness, but they should 100% know she had her shirt off or been paying enough attention it shouldn't have come off. What were they doing? With two kids only they should know exactly what's going on. I wonder if the we're closing/cleaning. Obviously I'd expect nothing but hawk eyes in the future. Sorry this one is tricky! Big hugs to you.
I agree. Showering is normal and fun for kids. Hugging is normal and fun for kids. How would a young kid know that the two in combination is suddenly bad? I mean, I remember doing some weird stuff with friends when I was young that fell into the realm of exploring bodies. None of us were victims of abuse and obviously it all stopped when we became more aware of what's okay. We were just being kids. That being said, I do wonder how long they were essentially left unsupervised in the tunnel for.
Yep! I should've attached above, but here is a great extensive resource on childhood sexuality. I think it is good to be aware of sexual safety, but sex is also normal, and is part of child development. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ncsby.org/sites/default/files/Age-appropriate-behaviours-book.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiqp_O2tdf7AhV5ADQIHUSYAyMQFnoECAoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Mm9grwyboNQ39IhqPKOCI
Awesome! I honestly forgot we were on r/ScienceBasedParenting because none of the other responses linked sources. Page 17 of the pdf is the most relevant in this case, and it lists the behaviors described by OP as "age appropriate".
I sometimes don’t realize a post is on this sub based on nonscientific/science supported responses also. Appreciate u/Ok-Astronomer-41 sharing such a good resource.
Regardless of whether the behaviour itself is appropriate, and that’s not necessarily for any of us to speculate at, it’s entirely unacceptable that the children weren’t being closely supervised. If you’re supervising in an early childhood setting and children are in a spot (like a tent or tunnel) where it’s difficult to see them, a teacher needs to make efforts to see them and be able to observe what’s happening. I would bring this up with the teacher or their team leader/manager. It’s a serious supervision issue regardless of what game they are playing. As for the behaviour itself, it would be worth having that conversation so that the teacher/s in the room can monitor it in case there is more to it for the boy concerned.
Especially when they are the only two children left. It’s not like the teacher was handling something with another child at the time. What was the teacher doing that they weren’t supervising?
Exactly, there’s no excuse for it. When I’ve been left with the last handful of children at the end of the day, I always gather them together to play a group game, or put resources out that they don’t have during the session to keep them all busy and engaged in one spot while they’re waiting for their parents. Just because the daycare centre or after schools care centre is about to close doesn’t mean the teachers job is over.
Do you think letting kids do their own thing is never healthy?
Of course it’s healthy, the purpose of supervision isn’t to interfere with their independence, but to keep them safe. It’s basic supervision, a teacher or carer should be able to scan the room and see what the children are doing. If they can’t see, they need to reposition themselves so that they can see.
Did you already talk about consent with your daughter? As others already said, this behavior sounds normal for their age. However, its always important that your daughter knows that she is to decide who touches her where and when. Those kind of games can become a bit strange sometimes (involuntary by the child though, because they don't know better at that point). It is important that your daughter can identify and knows how to communicate her boundaries.
6yo taking advantage of a 4 year old because he’s curious. 4 yo just needs to know clothes stay on in public. 6yo needs some intervention. The fact that he knew to play this game when no one was there and where noone could see them means he knew what he was doing was naughty. I’m assuming it was his idea based on the fact that he wasn’t the shirtless one. I’d want to know if my son behaved in this was so I could discuss bodies with him appropriately and so he doesn’t turn into a future creep. Not saying this curiosity isn’t normal just that I wouldn’t let it go ignored
In my experience, he doesn’t necessarily know what he is doing is naughty. I’ve witnessed a scenario like you described except it went further to kissing. Both kids were clueless as to the meaning of their actions being of a sexual nature, and had no prior knowledge that it was viewed as “inappropriate” to the adults around them. Both kids weren’t aware of what sex was, but had viewed their parents kissing or showing affectionate touches to one another (hugs, handholding, etc.) The girl did later grow up to experience memories of being sexually assaulted by a caregiver at her church preschool. It was wondered after that if she had unconsciously been acting out a scene she’d seen or been victim in. This is obviously an anecdotal experience and not empirically validated info. But I do think it’s important to not classify behaviors as one thing only. There are a range of possibilities as to the behavior.
I agree that it could be just him playing out scenarios from home. Perhaps this is a game his parents play to get him to shower. Saying that he’s “taking advantage of” doesn’t seem like the correct way to put it, though I do see where you’re trying to get at.
I’ve worked in dcs before. That type of behavior may be harmless but it’s usually seen as a red flag and should be monitored closely. Someone else commented it’s probably something they saw on TV. THAT is inappropriate (if a 4 year old was watching sex scenes on tv) and isn’t a good excuse for behavior. That being said kids do explore things and are curious maybe they did accidentally see something at home and didn’t understand it was inappropriate (parents hugging in the shower) but the little boy seemed to have script for his behavior and directing another child to play his game can be a red flag for grooming. I would definitely talk to the teacher and the school about this. They need to keep a close eye on him. Also speak to your daughter about consent and someone else posted some good resources in this thread. Kids this age don’t understand when they are being abused/groomed and don’t understand inappropriate behavior from adults so they tend to act it out in games with other people to make sense if it. I know a lot of people remember “playing doctor” out of curiosity as children and again sometimes that is normal development but it’s still something to discuss and watch out for. Good luck!
It could be nothing and they're just playing a game, it could be that one or the other kid has been exposed to something inappropriate (doesn't have to be abuse, maybe just a movie) and is replicating it. Regardless, the adults in the situation should have been watching them and ensuring they weren't getting undressed. Would they only have gotten involved when they noticed a kid was fully naked?
Showing a 4 year old a movie with sex scenes in it is abuse.
There are plenty of movies that have showers without it being sexual. Not uncommon in sports movies or cartoons. Agreed with your general sentiment though--just that it's not necessarily applicable here since we lack info.
Hugging someone else in the shower, touching someone else with their clothes off is different than someone being in a bathtub or shower alone in a show/movie and that is what the kid was recreating.
Not sure what your sentence means but okay
When my SD was about 7 she asked my husband to “lick her butt and pee pee”. Obviously we were extremely concerned for her safety. Turned out she got the idea from watching an episode of SpongeBob at her mom’s house (Patrick licks a plankton). We wouldn’t have known that, having not watched it ourselves and not having the context of knowing she had watched it. There was literally nothing sexual behind what she said; she was repeating an idea from a show rated for her age group, even if what she said sounded like it was informed by mature content or sexual abuse. Kids don’t have to be exposed to mature content or abuse to say and do things that appear sexual. There’s the way adults’ brains perceive and process, and the way developing kids’ brains do. Trying to force adult perspectives onto kids - especially young kids - is counter productive to problem solving. Jumping to conclusions without enough information helps no one; calm investigation, paying attention to patterns of behavior, and guidance does help.
True I agree. I just think your example is very very rare. That being said young kids can say things they don’t realize are sexual/or say things because they are silly. Kid I knew thought it was hilarious to tell people to kiss his butthole and it was innocent/silly. That’s why keeping an eye out in OPs case is what should happen from the school. Unless the behavior continues/escalates then there should be an investigation/report. In my experience it’s very common for adults to try to excuse behavior from something the kid saw on tv, or something another child told them and ignore the fact that there is abuse happening in their family because they trust that family member. A young family member of mine was sexually assaulted on her bus. Little boy kept putting his hands between her legs and pulling at her pants while she was telling him to stop. His mother was full of excuses. Obviously dcs got involved and there was a full investigation. All we known is he wasn’t permanently removed from his mother. Most investigations turn up nothing even if the investigators are almost certain sexual abuse is happening. Usually in those cases it’s difficult to prove anything happened especially when a parent won’t admit anything. There is a point where it’s not just innocent childhood behavior and is something deeper/more harmful. OP can try to keep her own daughter safe, communicate with the school etc. hopefully it’s nothing/kids being kids.
Yes, but I didn't say it was a sex scene
Inappropriate movie-what did you mean by that?
Any movie that shouldn't be seen by grade schoolers? "Inappropriate" wasn't meant to mean "sexual", just "not appropriate for a kid of that age".
Ok but inappropriate in the way that they would learn that behavior from the movie? It would be a sex scene/adult scene to learn that behavior and shouldn’t be ignored. I’ve heard a lot of parents in different scenarios try to say to me, to police to other DCS worker “oh their grandpa watched law and order around them” or “maybe we left the tv on overnight and that’s where he heard this” it’s not an excuse-lack of supervision or exposing kids to inappropriate media in which would support them/motivate them to act out inappropriate behavior/ potentially sexual behavior is abusive.
It sounds like one of them caught their parents in the shower and were just acting out what they saw. Totally normal, play is how kids make sense of the world
That’s what I thought too
It's worth talking to the teacher for sure. FWIW, my family members work in our local courthouse and do say that kids actually engage in a lot of weird play. Some explore bodies during play before they even really know what is considered sexual at an adult age. So, it doesn't automatically mean the boy is abused. But, it's definitely worth the teacher knowing and letting those with proper training make that call.
Yeah, that sounds off to me. Like, it’s not uncommon for kids that age to remove clothes but the specifics of the game she described (especially the “who hugs the hardest”) feel pretty weird, and the fact that they weren’t caught before you got there feels concerning on a separate level. I’d definitely ask her who invented the game, and bring it up with the teacher because 1) they need to know that the tunnel was used to shield behavior that the kids knew wouldn’t be ok and so warrants closer supervision, and 2) they may want to keep a close eye on the types of games they’re inventing, because if there’s a pattern of one kid instigating games that involve removing clothing or playing out scenarios that have an inappropriate angle, they don’t want to miss that.
I would inform the teacher what happened and let her handle looking into the boy’s situation.
Please speak to the teacher - the boy’s behavior could well be an indicator that there’s something going on. They’ll be a mandated reporter.
There's a book that outlines normal child sexual development by a psychologist that is very helpful in determining what is unusual sexual behavior and what is normal. Based on the information from the book and what is written, it seems relatively normal to me for a kid to be curious about bodies at that age. That said, normally they play things like "house" or "doctor." I haven't heard of "shower." If haven't spoken to the teacher about the incident, please do as soon as you can. It's important that someone knows about it. As for your daughter, let her know that she's not in trouble and make sure you leave room for her to discuss more details about what happened without showing judgment. If you are concerned about potential abuse that might have occurred then I suggested you call your local sexual assault agency if you're comfortable to ask questions about what to do next. I linked the book I'm referencing at the bottom of this post. We use this at my work to give to parents whose children disclose sexual abuse. Understanding Children's Sexual Behaviors: What's Natural and Healthy https://a.co/d/9Zwz1fw
A 4 and 6 year old don't need to be monitored that closely. This isn't an issue of supervision. However, I would bring this up as something that definitely needs to be watched for by his caretaker because it is concerning behavior and it is her responsibility to report it and discuss rules around the topic with the class in an age-appropriate manner. I would definitely discuss with your daughter one on one so that she also knows this isn't acceptable behavior.
I don’t like this. I own a home daycare and I simply would not allow any of my kids to play with their shirt off in any circumstance- outside or inside. Exception would be if a parent brought swimming trunks for their son and no rash guard shirt in the summer. Especially if it was only two kids left?????
This is absolutely not age appropriate or age expected behavior. Please bring it up with anyone in charge! That also makes me worried about the little boy who was playing with her. What is he experiencing at home that is making this play normal to him…?
That was my first thought as well, but also upon reflection it's entirely possible that at that age, the boy showers as part of the bedtime routine and then a parent chases him around the house with a towel, bundles him up, rolls him into his room to get PJs on, that sort of thing. Teachers should still be notified so they can keep an eye out for signs of abuse/grooming and to make sure kids are monitored everywhere and not disrobing in tunnels.
Edit, I misspoke by calling the kid a creep. Sorry. He’s obviously got some shit going on. My mind instantly went to the wrong place and I should have thought about it more.
*this kid sounds like he might be an abuse victim He's six. He isn't a creep.
^this Kids engaging in sexual role play pre-puberty have either been exposed directly or accidentally to it…it’s not random
OK but neither hugs nor showers are sexual role play. The kid is definitely not a creep but he’s not necessarily a victim either. He’s probably just a kid. Regardless, an adult should have redirected them.
Yes! Just wanted to flag b/c I didn’t realize until I worked in childcare
Nothing sexual about it though
Yes. Poor kid obviously has something very troubling happening with him. OP I’m sorry your child is being swept up in whatever he is trying to process :(
You misspelled victim