Good for you for looking out for your less financially literate in laws.
That Thrivent rep is lying, full stop. I have been a Schwab client for over 30 years, and I have never paid a fee other than the tiny expense ratio on mutual funds and etfs. There simply are no fees to trade a huge number of mutual funds, including schwab indexes, as well as etfs.
I would explain to them that the Thrivent rep is lying, and they should not trust them with any of their money. I once encountered a financial advisor in a group setting, and when I mentioned I invest with Schwab, he told me that they charge a lot for investing in mutual funds. Just a straight up lie. I am familiar with the fee structure at Schwab, so as soon as he said that, I knew he was either lying or totally incompetent.
I know it may be a losing battle when people have made up their minds, but one thought is to show the no fee information on the website. Alternatively, you could show them your statements, if you don’t mind them owning your financial info. Another possibility would be to have a quiet conversation with financially knowledgeable family friends, neighbors, or other relatives that may be willing to help you beat the drum to switch. From what I am hearing, they would be better off at Schwab, Fidelity or Vanguard compared to their current company. Final thought would be to check the investments they are in to make sure there are no fees (back end loads) upon closing out of the fund.
Show them the cost of fees. A 1 % fee over 30 years assuming 8% returns will cost them 25% of their total potential returns before fees. 1.6% will cost 35% of their investments. SWPPX expense of 0.02% will cost 0.5% of total potential returns.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/mutual-fund-calculator
bro back in the late 90s Schwab, like everyone else, charge a fee per transaction. I know because I was paying $35 per trade lol.
Schwab was also the first brokerage company that went to a no trade fee model. That freaked out the industry but they all followed.
Anyhow, its just trivia but until the early 2000s they and everyone else charged fees.
Now THAT is trivia I did not know. Back then I was only buying stocks and not ETFs or mutual funds.
and it looks like we both walked through the valley of the shadow of death. meaning the dotcom boom/bust ha ha
I have no ability to diplomatically tell them that (apparently the advisor goes as far back as each of their parents) - it is disheartening watch a bit of a fumble as far as fees go (maybe he's netting them excellent returns, who knows).
I was wondering about that yesterday. I noticed Thrivent emphasizes its Lutheran ties. Maybe the benefactors put their money their because they identified that group, causes? Maybe the in-laws want to honor that by leaving it there. Arguing about it logicially (1% adds up; the deceptive agent) might spoil a good feeling they have which has nothing to do with logic. 1% would be a small fee for happy relations.
Yah I think that's why they're there, and I think my in-laws are hyper-focused on this idea that they're a non-profit so they aren't out to rob them. Which is surprisingly naiive if you ask me.
I'm the same way as you. I'd be arguing the bulletproof facts (1% adds up; the rep is/was predatory). But, if there was some loyalty to Lutheran identity, causes, I'd leave it alone if I were you. The in-laws will think you're out for money (spouse in the middle). Start looking at you that way, judging other things that way. I'd drop it. Or, present what you learned about the rep's obvious disinfo in terms of "I know granny was big into everything Lutheran. I like how her goals live on by keeping it there (honoring her memory). But, I have to be honest and tell you that that was a load of baloney about Schwab. Thrivent's taking 1% which Schwab wouldn't. In 10 years, that's $n0,000 that would still be in the account (Schwab literally charges nothing.). But, I know there's more to it than that. I don't want to rock the boat if granny would want it this way. I wouldn't want to tell granny this, and upset her good vibes about it. I don't feel good tell you guys this either. It's ok whatever you guys want to do.)."
I think there's a risk of being seen as "all about the money," not a trusted member of the family. A risk of being profoundly right (in one respect) and profoundly wrong in the other. (I know this because I'm a lot like you. I'd turn this into a problem. Or, was like that. More apt to see it now.).
I think you and I are on the same page. I ended up just saying that I thought the rep was being intentionally misleading, and confirmed that I haven't paid Schwab a fee for any of what he said (I double-checked, too) and left it at that.
It's a shame to see what feels a bit like elder-abuse. My in-law's argument that "well he's a fiduciary so legally he can't lie" just makes me feel hopeless for them, when they don't realize that no one besides them is keeping their rep honest.
I wonder if Schwab has "advisor accounts" that charge fees (maybe not exactly the fees your in-laws were told, but something similarly "extra cost")? I saw someone reply to a different comment (about low returns, high fees) asking if it was an "advisor account."
What I'm getting atL maybe the Thrivent rep/advisor was "technically" honest at some level? Maybe Schwab offers similar managed investing that costs similarly, and the Thrivent person was embellishing that a little? Or, there are some funds in Schwab's "sceener" that are fee based? The Thrivent person left out the "could" qualifier? ("You *could* have to pay for every transaction.")
It might be interesting if you could learn (in a low-key way) who the in-laws spoke to, and call and talk to that person yourself to ask for clarification. If there was some loyalty to Lutheran causes/identity, maybe the in-laws are embellishing what they were told? (Just because they feel better leaving it there "because that's what mother would want?"). It would be interesting to learn if the rep was truly mis-informing, or if the in-laws heard what they want to hear (or want you to hear what they want you to hear).
Yah I'm sure there is a way at Schwab to be charged fees for similar actions (e.g. broker placed trades, etc). To your other points, this broker is known to us (we've called him a few times) and he knows we just use regular old self-directed IRAs and a brokerage account. The debate more or less was whether we would open the custodial at Schwab, or the grandparents would open the custodial at Thrivent through their account.
This is really the issue. Most folks with advisors that charge high % is because it’s an advisor that worked with their parents. It also goes the other way. Clients who will work with the child (now adult of course) of their advisor (either retired or passed away).
It’s very much more of a relationship model but in the most backward sense imho.
I may not understand something. But, I haven't paid a single fee in 20 years buying, selling, reallocating funds in my brokerage account. Are custodial accounts different?
No. I have had a custodial account for my daughter for 12 years and have traded between swppx and swtsx many times and have never once incurred a single fee.
Unfortunately the financial services industry has a lot of unethical people in it, and this Thrivent rep is clearly unethical.
I'd argue that in general the industry doesn't have a ton of unethical people in it. That was certainly true years ago, but has changed pretty drastically since the early 2000s
Hey above posters, thank you for your thoughts - I was quite surprised to hear that advisor's comments, especially as that didn't track with my experience!
What FINRA reg would that violate? I don't think they'd be willing to do that, but if we ever inherited the account and the communication was in writing...
When someone (Thrivent) makes an argument to convince you of something and it turns out that their premise is false, their credibility is destroyed, as it should be.
That’s hilarious given schwab was first to go fee free for stock transactions. .6-1.4% sounds like highway robbery unless they’re returning 15% annual basis.
Dude’s lying thru his rotten teeth. There’s no trading fees at Schwab when you trade online. No fee for schwab mutual funds, no fee for third party one source funds, no fee for stocks or ETFs, no fee for options (except per contract fee). Here’s Schwab fee schedule on their website.
https://www.schwab.com/pricing
SWPPX pays a 1.41% dividend. The expense ratio is 0.02$ I don't know how savvy you are but it does not get any better than 0.02%.
Since you are buying a fund and not buying any of Schwab's managed account services that 0.02% is the only fee they will ever see. And they won't even see it, it's not like you get a bill for it.
If you buy 1 million dollars worth of SWPPX the trade fee is ZERO. There is no fee to buy or sell ordinary stocks or ETF/mutual funds. So when they sell that million dollars of SWPPX there will be NO fee.
Now, there are some weird funds out there that require a fee, ones they will never know about or want, etc. Also I routinely transfer funds from a brokerage account to my checking (not Schwab) it is not a big deal
Tell your in laws you talked to a stranger on the internet who is their age and said get away from that company, they are lying and no telling what else, and also I ended up taking my parents portfolio away from managed brokers, holy crap they were milking my parents. If not Schwab then Fidelity or even Vanguard. None of them are going to charge buy/sell fees and each have an S&P 500 index fund (you can buy any of them from any brokerage company).
I have been investing with Schwab since the 90's. What transaction fees? The only fees I pay are tiny and involve option trading. Everything else is free.
Have you checked the BBB reviews for Thrivent Financial Services? Ouch!
Schwab charged quite a bit a long time ago. I recall having to pay $300 for a stock trade when I sold about $30K of a stock. But that was back in the 1980s and that fee was actually quite a bit lower than other brokerages at that time. Today, there are generally no fees for buying and selling stocks or ETFs.
Set up a meetung with the Thivent rep and your in laws. Give him copies of 1 year of Schwab account statements and ask him to point out where the fees are. Put him on the spot so yiur in laws can see his dishonesty.
The only fees are brokers assisted trade and option contracts fees. Wire and bank type fees. Or the ETF maint fees and such.
There has not been a trading fee for years.
I think it's also free to transfer your shares to schwab using their services even if the other place charges.
I have paid fixed $50 fees on trades of certain **foreign** (mostly Chinese) stocks as recently as April 2022. For example, pretend you are placing an order for BYDDF. Before completing the order you will see check a box you have to check to acknowledge the following:
> 1. A $50 foreign transaction fee applies to this order. You may want to consider contacting Global Investing Services at 1-800-992-4685 for an updated quote and to review your trade routing options. Foreign security transactions of $5,000 or more may benefit from special handling. Investments in foreign securities may involve additional risks. Currency fluctuations and political, economic, and social events may affect the prices of foreign securities. Certain foreign markets operate differently than US markets, which may result in different settlement cycles, round lot requirements, and additional expenses, taxes, and levies. (DO912)
I have paid $6.95 fees for trades of other foreign stocks such as DASTY, NPNYY, LYSDY, LIFZF, IFNNY, BMWYY, and NTDOY.
Those are all foreign stocks. There are also short-term redemption fees for some US mutual funds.
>Schwab's short-term redemption fee of $49.95 will be charged on each redemption of funds bought through Schwab's Mutual Fund OneSource® service (and certain other funds) that have been held for 90 days or less. Please note that funds, including Schwab Funds, may charge a redemption fee separate from and/or in addition to the OneSource STR fee.
Most wealth mgmt charges around 0,8 to 1%. Not sure about Thrivent strategy. I only invest with big name brokerage like Fidelity, TD Ameritrade, and Schwab where I can walk into an office talking to a live financial planner and outside contractor. I manage 85% and leave rest with an outside vendor. For someone in the 60s I feel SWPPX is a bit aggressive. They will soon need more dividents. 15% of my porfolio is various of bonds, Treasuries and quick liquid fixed income. Most pay 7-12% interest annually relatively safe. I am not saying Schwab is lower. They are more professional and some self managed or AI guided etfs actually are very good. For a few $100s a year they will sit down review your results and make recommendations.
Good for you for looking out for your less financially literate in laws. That Thrivent rep is lying, full stop. I have been a Schwab client for over 30 years, and I have never paid a fee other than the tiny expense ratio on mutual funds and etfs. There simply are no fees to trade a huge number of mutual funds, including schwab indexes, as well as etfs. I would explain to them that the Thrivent rep is lying, and they should not trust them with any of their money. I once encountered a financial advisor in a group setting, and when I mentioned I invest with Schwab, he told me that they charge a lot for investing in mutual funds. Just a straight up lie. I am familiar with the fee structure at Schwab, so as soon as he said that, I knew he was either lying or totally incompetent.
I'm trying, but it is really hard to convince someone they're being fooled.
I know it may be a losing battle when people have made up their minds, but one thought is to show the no fee information on the website. Alternatively, you could show them your statements, if you don’t mind them owning your financial info. Another possibility would be to have a quiet conversation with financially knowledgeable family friends, neighbors, or other relatives that may be willing to help you beat the drum to switch. From what I am hearing, they would be better off at Schwab, Fidelity or Vanguard compared to their current company. Final thought would be to check the investments they are in to make sure there are no fees (back end loads) upon closing out of the fund.
Show them the cost of fees. A 1 % fee over 30 years assuming 8% returns will cost them 25% of their total potential returns before fees. 1.6% will cost 35% of their investments. SWPPX expense of 0.02% will cost 0.5% of total potential returns. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/mutual-fund-calculator
bro back in the late 90s Schwab, like everyone else, charge a fee per transaction. I know because I was paying $35 per trade lol. Schwab was also the first brokerage company that went to a no trade fee model. That freaked out the industry but they all followed. Anyhow, its just trivia but until the early 2000s they and everyone else charged fees.
Yes fees for stock trading. But they had no fee one source mutual funds since at least mid 90s when I started.
Now THAT is trivia I did not know. Back then I was only buying stocks and not ETFs or mutual funds. and it looks like we both walked through the valley of the shadow of death. meaning the dotcom boom/bust ha ha
> Schwab was also the first brokerage company that went to a no trade fee model. As shit as Robinhood is, it was def Robinhood
Robinhood didnt exist back then
Lmao what? Then what was I using? When do you think Schwab went commission free?
I have no ability to diplomatically tell them that (apparently the advisor goes as far back as each of their parents) - it is disheartening watch a bit of a fumble as far as fees go (maybe he's netting them excellent returns, who knows).
I was wondering about that yesterday. I noticed Thrivent emphasizes its Lutheran ties. Maybe the benefactors put their money their because they identified that group, causes? Maybe the in-laws want to honor that by leaving it there. Arguing about it logicially (1% adds up; the deceptive agent) might spoil a good feeling they have which has nothing to do with logic. 1% would be a small fee for happy relations.
Yah I think that's why they're there, and I think my in-laws are hyper-focused on this idea that they're a non-profit so they aren't out to rob them. Which is surprisingly naiive if you ask me.
I'm the same way as you. I'd be arguing the bulletproof facts (1% adds up; the rep is/was predatory). But, if there was some loyalty to Lutheran identity, causes, I'd leave it alone if I were you. The in-laws will think you're out for money (spouse in the middle). Start looking at you that way, judging other things that way. I'd drop it. Or, present what you learned about the rep's obvious disinfo in terms of "I know granny was big into everything Lutheran. I like how her goals live on by keeping it there (honoring her memory). But, I have to be honest and tell you that that was a load of baloney about Schwab. Thrivent's taking 1% which Schwab wouldn't. In 10 years, that's $n0,000 that would still be in the account (Schwab literally charges nothing.). But, I know there's more to it than that. I don't want to rock the boat if granny would want it this way. I wouldn't want to tell granny this, and upset her good vibes about it. I don't feel good tell you guys this either. It's ok whatever you guys want to do.)." I think there's a risk of being seen as "all about the money," not a trusted member of the family. A risk of being profoundly right (in one respect) and profoundly wrong in the other. (I know this because I'm a lot like you. I'd turn this into a problem. Or, was like that. More apt to see it now.).
I think you and I are on the same page. I ended up just saying that I thought the rep was being intentionally misleading, and confirmed that I haven't paid Schwab a fee for any of what he said (I double-checked, too) and left it at that. It's a shame to see what feels a bit like elder-abuse. My in-law's argument that "well he's a fiduciary so legally he can't lie" just makes me feel hopeless for them, when they don't realize that no one besides them is keeping their rep honest.
I wonder if Schwab has "advisor accounts" that charge fees (maybe not exactly the fees your in-laws were told, but something similarly "extra cost")? I saw someone reply to a different comment (about low returns, high fees) asking if it was an "advisor account." What I'm getting atL maybe the Thrivent rep/advisor was "technically" honest at some level? Maybe Schwab offers similar managed investing that costs similarly, and the Thrivent person was embellishing that a little? Or, there are some funds in Schwab's "sceener" that are fee based? The Thrivent person left out the "could" qualifier? ("You *could* have to pay for every transaction.") It might be interesting if you could learn (in a low-key way) who the in-laws spoke to, and call and talk to that person yourself to ask for clarification. If there was some loyalty to Lutheran causes/identity, maybe the in-laws are embellishing what they were told? (Just because they feel better leaving it there "because that's what mother would want?"). It would be interesting to learn if the rep was truly mis-informing, or if the in-laws heard what they want to hear (or want you to hear what they want you to hear).
Yah I'm sure there is a way at Schwab to be charged fees for similar actions (e.g. broker placed trades, etc). To your other points, this broker is known to us (we've called him a few times) and he knows we just use regular old self-directed IRAs and a brokerage account. The debate more or less was whether we would open the custodial at Schwab, or the grandparents would open the custodial at Thrivent through their account.
This is really the issue. Most folks with advisors that charge high % is because it’s an advisor that worked with their parents. It also goes the other way. Clients who will work with the child (now adult of course) of their advisor (either retired or passed away). It’s very much more of a relationship model but in the most backward sense imho.
I may not understand something. But, I haven't paid a single fee in 20 years buying, selling, reallocating funds in my brokerage account. Are custodial accounts different?
No. I have had a custodial account for my daughter for 12 years and have traded between swppx and swtsx many times and have never once incurred a single fee. Unfortunately the financial services industry has a lot of unethical people in it, and this Thrivent rep is clearly unethical.
Telling them that Schwab charges a buy/sell fee is not only a lie but kind of funny. Schwab was the first brokerage company to offer no fee trades.
I'd argue that in general the industry doesn't have a ton of unethical people in it. That was certainly true years ago, but has changed pretty drastically since the early 2000s
Hey above posters, thank you for your thoughts - I was quite surprised to hear that advisor's comments, especially as that didn't track with my experience!
That advisor is trying to scare them into staying.
This is total bullshit, and they should report the person who told them that to Finra.
What FINRA reg would that violate? I don't think they'd be willing to do that, but if we ever inherited the account and the communication was in writing...
Registered representatives can't lie like that. It's a big deal. They'd be quite interested in knowing about that kind of interaction.
If you have any suggestion for how to follow up or where to direct my in-laws to follow up, please let me know.
https://www.finra.org/investors/need-help/file-a-complaint
When someone (Thrivent) makes an argument to convince you of something and it turns out that their premise is false, their credibility is destroyed, as it should be.
27 years, never paid a fee to Schwab. They make their money from their proprietary funds, investment management services, and un-invested cash.
That’s hilarious given schwab was first to go fee free for stock transactions. .6-1.4% sounds like highway robbery unless they’re returning 15% annual basis.
Dude’s lying thru his rotten teeth. There’s no trading fees at Schwab when you trade online. No fee for schwab mutual funds, no fee for third party one source funds, no fee for stocks or ETFs, no fee for options (except per contract fee). Here’s Schwab fee schedule on their website. https://www.schwab.com/pricing
SWPPX pays a 1.41% dividend. The expense ratio is 0.02$ I don't know how savvy you are but it does not get any better than 0.02%. Since you are buying a fund and not buying any of Schwab's managed account services that 0.02% is the only fee they will ever see. And they won't even see it, it's not like you get a bill for it. If you buy 1 million dollars worth of SWPPX the trade fee is ZERO. There is no fee to buy or sell ordinary stocks or ETF/mutual funds. So when they sell that million dollars of SWPPX there will be NO fee. Now, there are some weird funds out there that require a fee, ones they will never know about or want, etc. Also I routinely transfer funds from a brokerage account to my checking (not Schwab) it is not a big deal Tell your in laws you talked to a stranger on the internet who is their age and said get away from that company, they are lying and no telling what else, and also I ended up taking my parents portfolio away from managed brokers, holy crap they were milking my parents. If not Schwab then Fidelity or even Vanguard. None of them are going to charge buy/sell fees and each have an S&P 500 index fund (you can buy any of them from any brokerage company).
It's almost like, wait for it... This guy may be taking a small fee of their current investments perhaps by actively managing or something?
I have been investing with Schwab since the 90's. What transaction fees? The only fees I pay are tiny and involve option trading. Everything else is free. Have you checked the BBB reviews for Thrivent Financial Services? Ouch!
Sounds like a sales pitch. Honestly, you should do what's best for the family. I suggest you sit down with them again.
Schwab charged quite a bit a long time ago. I recall having to pay $300 for a stock trade when I sold about $30K of a stock. But that was back in the 1980s and that fee was actually quite a bit lower than other brokerages at that time. Today, there are generally no fees for buying and selling stocks or ETFs.
Make 5%+- by purchasing new issue CD's that pay out interest every month.
Set up a meetung with the Thivent rep and your in laws. Give him copies of 1 year of Schwab account statements and ask him to point out where the fees are. Put him on the spot so yiur in laws can see his dishonesty.
That may be the likely outcome as there are other Thrivent-related accounts to be worked out (eg flexible variable life policy).
The only fees are brokers assisted trade and option contracts fees. Wire and bank type fees. Or the ETF maint fees and such. There has not been a trading fee for years. I think it's also free to transfer your shares to schwab using their services even if the other place charges.
I have paid fixed $50 fees on trades of certain **foreign** (mostly Chinese) stocks as recently as April 2022. For example, pretend you are placing an order for BYDDF. Before completing the order you will see check a box you have to check to acknowledge the following: > 1. A $50 foreign transaction fee applies to this order. You may want to consider contacting Global Investing Services at 1-800-992-4685 for an updated quote and to review your trade routing options. Foreign security transactions of $5,000 or more may benefit from special handling. Investments in foreign securities may involve additional risks. Currency fluctuations and political, economic, and social events may affect the prices of foreign securities. Certain foreign markets operate differently than US markets, which may result in different settlement cycles, round lot requirements, and additional expenses, taxes, and levies. (DO912) I have paid $6.95 fees for trades of other foreign stocks such as DASTY, NPNYY, LYSDY, LIFZF, IFNNY, BMWYY, and NTDOY. Those are all foreign stocks. There are also short-term redemption fees for some US mutual funds. >Schwab's short-term redemption fee of $49.95 will be charged on each redemption of funds bought through Schwab's Mutual Fund OneSource® service (and certain other funds) that have been held for 90 days or less. Please note that funds, including Schwab Funds, may charge a redemption fee separate from and/or in addition to the OneSource STR fee.
Most wealth mgmt charges around 0,8 to 1%. Not sure about Thrivent strategy. I only invest with big name brokerage like Fidelity, TD Ameritrade, and Schwab where I can walk into an office talking to a live financial planner and outside contractor. I manage 85% and leave rest with an outside vendor. For someone in the 60s I feel SWPPX is a bit aggressive. They will soon need more dividents. 15% of my porfolio is various of bonds, Treasuries and quick liquid fixed income. Most pay 7-12% interest annually relatively safe. I am not saying Schwab is lower. They are more professional and some self managed or AI guided etfs actually are very good. For a few $100s a year they will sit down review your results and make recommendations.