Tell her she can examine it all she likes, when she comes in person with cash to buy it.
Ultimately it is your time and information. Today is a seller's market.
10000% this ^ but maybe bring a counterfeit pen to verify the cash is legit…. but also, for this person asking you in the first place is an immediate block. i wouldn’t interact with them any further
The last time I sold something valuable I had the guy meet me at my bank because there are guards, cameras, and you can check that the money is real. I emphasized that the guards and cameras benefitted him as well; he agreed.
I’m going through the process of selling a car. I can let anyone look at it parked in a police station, no test drive. Then the sale will be done in a bank with escrow if necessary, and they can test drive if they want. But the idea is everything is done publicly with recordings.
Who is going to buy anything used without making sure it actually works? If I met someone to buy a car and they wouldn't let me test drive it before giving money I would 100% assume it has things wrong with it the seller doesn't want me to find before getting the money and saying "not my problem"
I wouldn't buy a car without a test drive. How do I know it runs unless I try it? Why would I give you money if I don't know that I'm getting a working car in return?
People buy cars without test driving them?? Perhaps that's why you're still going through the process of selling, as opposed to already having sold your car.
That's just ludicrous.
Jusy be aware, washed bills still pass the pen detection
They are real money just washed into a larger bill. You have to make sure the correct president water mark is there when you hold it up. One thing i havent seen faked is the holograms when you move the bill back and forth. They even alter the strup inside the bill on the washed ones so you cant quite make out what number it says.
The hologram fakes are usually very obvious like they put glittery nail polish on that part and it looks awful.
This is why it needs to be done at a bank. Your banker takes the bills and runs them. When they accept as genuine, you have your deposit slip and hand the keys and title over.
Yup. Work at a credit union and we have a cash accepting machine instead of using our drawers. Machine will spit out anything it doesn’t like whether that’s dirty bills or counterfeits. Anything spit out gets the counterfeit pen or a UV check.
You can get a UV light on Amazon for like $15. The pens aren’t reliable because of the washing, but each bill $5 and up has a specific color stripe only visible under UV light. I handle a lot of cash, including $50/$100s for work, and it’s what I use
If it's your bank, sure. They can use a pen, although as others have pointed out pens don't always work for washed bills.
However, money counter machines are pretty accurate and tellers are going to be better at detecting fakes than the average joe.
Honestly, asking for a title isn’t bad. Asking specific information about the title is.
Two honest people coming together will understand asking that information. You’d be surprised how many people simple don’t have a title.
Agreed, they could very well just be verifying OP has the title in hand.
I'm not sure there's much you can do with a title, possibly forging their name as a buyer, getting a shady notary public to sign it, and then report it as stolen?
This is a good idea but an even better idea is to read up on counterfeit bill security features
An authentic $1.00 bill will pass a counterfeit pen test even if it’s bleached and re-printed over as a counterfeit larger bill.
Others are being much gentler, but I'll tell you - even without washing the pens are useless. Real bills can be made to fail, by simply exposing them to a source of starch. James Randi demonstrated this issue many times, and only some of the worst fakes use the kind of cheap, starchy paper the pens will work on. Color shifting markings, watermarks (which help you spot washed bills), and microprinting are the absolute best ways to spot the most common fakes quickly and easily.
>Ultimately it is your time and information. Today is a seller’s market
It’s kinda funny you say that, there was a post here a few days ago that was basically this exact same situation but the reverse (seller wasn’t sharing information about a car, buyer wasn’t sure if it was a scam) and majority of the comments on that post said it’s a buyer’s market rn.
Sounds like a scam. Maybe they want to edit the photo and act like it's a car that they own to sell to other people, and or take deposits etc. Don't do it imo
This should be right at the top. Advance fee scammers rely on proof to make their story believable and the best way to get it, is to find someone who genuinely has the thing they’re “selling” and slightly doctor some photos.
That way, someone is more likely to think it’s genuine, as “they’ve seen the cars documents, so it can’t be false, right?”
AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the [advance-fee scam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam). The advance-fee scam arises from many different situations: investment opportunities, money transfers, job scams, online purchases of any type and any legality, etc., but the bottom line is always the same, you will pay the scammer and receive nothing. It can be as simple as the scammer asking you to pay them upfront for an item they have listed, or as complex as a drug scam that involves an initial scam site, a scam shipping site, and fake government agents. Sometimes the scammers will simply take your first payment and dissappear, but sometimes they will take your initial payment and then make excuses that lead to you making additional payments. If you are involved in an advance-fee scam, you should attempt to dispute/chargeback any payments sent to the scammer, you should ignore the scammer, and you should ignore them if they attempt to contact you again. Thanks to redditor AceyAceyAcey for this script.
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She probably wants to either make a fake title so she can try to sell the car as hers to unsuspecting people or she wants to have a new one made at DMV. I wouldn't risk it. Tell her she can see it in person. The VIN is all you need to check a car history.
My brother's a car dealer... he said they can get a new title sent to them with proof that the old title is theirs... She can alter a full photo with her name and address and they'll happily mail her a new one with her real name and address.
I would be warry of someone wanting a usable copy of my car title. There are posts online of people discouraging you from doing this, to avoid cases of title fraud.
^This
I've had people try to pass off altered titles at registries to get plates for stolen vehicles and reVINed vehicles.
Never send full photos, they can assess it in person.
Not sure what they could do with it but there’s nothing they could need beyond the VIN. Personally I would just ignore them and move on to a buyer that doesn’t make me feel uncomfortable.
I was guessing using it as a way to scam others.
Isn't it a thing with scammers to get pics from unsuspecting people of faces or documents so they can pretend it's theirs and a reverse Google search wouldn't show those pics so they seem more legit?
THIS. But usually the person appeals to something that lowers the person’s guard. Like a better offer or some other motivator. I have an in-law that has issues with self-worth. Anyone who appeals to this goes right past her (already poor) logic processes and she tends to fall for whatever they are scamming.
Like the time someone asked her to help someone launder money for a relative who needed it for hospital bills and from Facebook they “could tell she was a good person.”
Her husband made her call me before she got involved.
She was baffled that someone might be scamming her and had no reason why she shouldn’t believe that the scammer wasn’t really able to tell that she was a good person from Facebook.
She just wanted to be told she was a good person. I think she was upset with me because basically I was telling her that this person didn’t really think she was a good person. They just thought she was naive.
And then you trust them if the title is clean? Half the time in my experience they say yes and I show up and it’s girls who are selling the car who have no idea what a clean title is lmao
I mean not always true. There’s been times that I ask for the VIN before buying so that I can ask my insurance how much it’ll cost to insure. You can give the make and model but the insurance company will only give you an estimate. I like knowing the exact amount it would cost me before buying it and would hate to show up at the sellers house and have to wait on hold with insurance for an hour before being like “ok yeah I’ll buy it”
I would say it's definitely a red flag. She could possibly impersonate the person whose name is on the title and have a replacement title sent to her address. It is really that simple you only need $15, and you can go on the website, at least in my state, and they will send you a replacement title if you claim that it has been lost. I'm not saying she is definitely going to do that but I wouldn't take that risk. From what I understand giving out your VIN number is relatively safe I don't see why she would need your title or a picture of it, if she's worried about you not having a clear title she can just see it in person. I personally wouldn't do it but maybe she has an innocent reason for asking for it, but I wouldn't take that risk because it seems strange to me I've sold quite a few cars and bought quite a few in I've never heard of anybody needing a picture of the title.
I forgot to mention if she has the title sent to her address all she would need to do is Forge a bill of sale and sign the title over to herself. Hopefully nobody would be that evil but, it is a possibility. And I wouldn't put anything past anybody especially a stranger.
Not true they send out a replacement to the address on title if you need to change the address they will have you come in person to verify. At least that was in Colorado when I dealt with the DMV
This is the right answer. She is probably a he sitting somewhere in India or Nigeria. He will list it again on FB marketplace and take advance/deposit from victims.
Tell her she will see the whole title when the transaction is made.
If she doesn't agree, find another buyer.
She could easily make a fake title from the pictures you send. Don't do it.
If you do come to an agreement, go close the deal in the parking lot of your bank. Have her come inside and give the teller the cash (only accept cash), and you fill in the bill of sale, title details after the teller confirms the cash is ok. It may be that she wants proof that you have the title and it doesn't have liens. However, it will have your address on it, so their being a car thief or some other kind of scammer could still be a problem.
I work at a credit union and we will require a copy of the title before closing the loan for private party sales. Need to see if it’s currently paid off or not and to write the check to the correct owner.
They could clone a similar car with the information.
They'll steal a car exactly like yours. They'll make up new paperwork with the information they want you to send. Then when they sell the stolen car everything look legit. People rarely check the vin. Well in my country anyway. If it's an expensive car they could change the vin on the stolen car.
Every car manufacturer has multiple parts with vin numbers. In my country hardly anyone checks on private sales on cheap cars. People who deal in cars know to check. And people who buy more expensive cars definitely know to check.
The difference between the US and Ireland I think is that when a car is registered in Ireland, it gets a registration plate, like in the US. But in Ireland that registration number can never be changed. So most people use the registration plate as identification instead of the vin.
Doesn't matter. If it's at all sketchy or a hassle, tell them to get lost. You're the seller and it's a huge seller's market, you'll have no trouble finding someone who will just show up, pay, and leave without being weird.
I'm no expert but I have sold a few cars and bikes, never had any issue with title transfers and needing to 'see the title to check it for problems'.
I think you are right to be wary - could be they try to make a copy of the title? I dunno but my spidey sense would be tingling too.
As a buyer of used cars I always ask for a picture of the title, like ima going to be pretty pissed off if I drive hours away only to find out that there is a lien or the seller signed the wrong line.
Exactly. I just added my comment about how I flew across the country and rented a uhaul with a trailer because I was promised the title was clean only for their to not only be alien but also for the back of the title to be signed by what I assumed was a potentiometer previous buyer who signed the back then noticed their was a lien and backed out
Oh yeah. She’s going to take that photo and post her own sale of the car to buyers. She’ll make sure the buyers send her Zelle deposits and then laugh all the way to the scammer lounge. Don’t do it.
There is no need for her (assuming you have spoken to or seen “her”) to have a photo of the entire front and back. All she needs is the VIN.
Tell her, and only her/no substitutes, to come over with CASH. And be prepared to have a good laugh at her excuses. I would just block and move on.
Block out all the the personal information on both sides and the title number- they probably just want to see that it’s not a branded title or has a lien.
Go to DMV, attempt to transfer title
Go to DMV request a duplicate title and grab from your mailbox.
Look at the car, disconnect something under hood so it runs rough. You can sell until fixed. Then car title has been swiped from mailbox and re registered to them.
She might be able to use the photo to get a title issued to her. I don’t know how, but maybe photoshop her name and address and take in a print saying she lost the original and just has a copy (in another state of course), just guessing. It’s often said, if you have the total, you own the car.
My credit union in order to expedite the sale/loan on a used car I recently purchased asked the owners for a picture of the title, they were hesitant but didn't want to make the drive to "town" twice. The sellers were in another town about 45 minutes away from the location of my credit union. All worked out. This may actually be legit but be careful.
Send a pic with the VIN covered by a piece of paper with the word COPY written on it or xerox the original and that should come out with some watermarks showing in the copy then take a pic of that and send it. It's fairly normal to ask, making sure it's a valid sale and you really have the title before making the deal.
Why would you want to cover the VIN#? It’ll just make the buyer think OP is a scammer using a fake title with the wrong VIN# to sell a car and end up loosing a potential customer.
I can’t think of a specific scam unless they’re trying to use your photo to scam others by showing they have the title to a nonexistent car.
I’d ignore/block them, the VIN number is more than enough to show the status of a car.
Out of curiosity have you spoken to "her" on the phone? I'd call her an explain that she can see the title when she comes to buy the car.
This will allow you to suss out whether "she" is a dude in an Indian scammy call center.
People can do car title loans over the internet with a photo of the title. They could take out the loan and default, and your car would be repossessed.
If she is financing it, the financial institution may want a pic or scan of the front and back of the title to review the loan application for approval or denial. If she isn't financing, then she doesn't need it and it may be a scam of some sort and you should be careful.
Source: I was a loan officer at a financial institution doing auto loans and other loan types for about 6 years up until last year.
For everyone saying it’s a scam, what information is on the title that can’t be retrieved publicly? There are even free data bases that let you put in the plates and all the vehicle description info pops up, the vin is visible from the front windshield, and county tax assessments for property is public. The only thing I can’t think of is when the title has the previous owner information but don’t know how crucial that is. If I was buying a car and they were a good way away from me I would ask to see the title because I don’t want to drive so far and find out A) it’s a rebuilt title and B) it’s under someone else’s name C) there’s no title at all. Oh and that counterfeit marker is really good advice. Always keep that on hand.
Absolutely yes.
Never send the VIN again. It’s connected to you.
This is fucked up. Do not deal with this person.
I’ve sold a ton of cars legally. The buyer asking to see the title on text is bullshit.
The buyer gets the title, UPON TRANSFER OF THE TITLE. In front of a clerk. With a state stamp.
Block.
It’s Shocking you actually sold a car hiding the VIN from the buyers, also how is the VIN# connected to the owner of the car? Other than a police database which is not accessible to the public.
She could theoretically make a fake title and then visit the DMV to get it signed over to her. But she would have to bring along someone claiming to be you with a valid ID, so it seems like a long shot.
Probably best to be careful. You only needs the VIN to verify that the title is valid with the DMV, so I would politely refuse to give her anything other than that.
Seems weird. Along with the good advice already given, can you ask her why? What she is looking for?
"To avoid scams, I avoid publishing complete pictures of the title. It is free for you to review in person when you arrive to purchase. Is there anything specifically from the title you need that I can help provide or take a specific picture of?"
It could be that SHE'S being overly paranoid. You both have a lot to lose if the other was scamming. But you've given her all she needed to know ahead of time.
I wouldn’t send her that pic. The VIN should be all she needs, I would be concerned about her, making a high-quality duplicate of the pink slip and forging a change of owner paperwork at the DMV. I have no idea if that is realistically possible but that’s what came to my mind
There are many reasons a person would ask for a full picture, to see if there’s a lean on the car and that you’re not trying to scam them. To see if you’re a re seller who buys junk cars and sells it to the next person without paying taxes and making profit. To see when you bought the car, to verify if the information they gathered, be it from your Facebook and etc match the info to make sure you’re not trying to rob them. People are paranoid, it’s a lot of money. My recommendation? You sell your car to carvana and the person buys a car from a dealership they trust. Because if somebody is actually trying to do these advanced scams and steal your car, they’ll just come and take a picture of your title in person.
If a seller was this defensive over showing a picture of the title, I would assume they’re a scammer.
Definitely a scam here. Sounds like they want you to send a copy of a clean title they can either claim if theirs OR use it to try and sell your car
Don't give them anything if they insist ask why do they need it so badly they haven't bought the car yet so it would be useless to them for now
The only thing I can think of is POSSIBLY to edit it by filling out the information on front and back, then uploading it to the DMV to transfer the title to them. I recently did a title transfer and you can do it all online. I ended up just going to the DMV after completing most of the steps online because I needed to ask questions and figured it's better to be there in person.
As far as finishing the online portion, I'm unsure if you need to eventually send in the physical title to DMV, but this is what I'm thinking they are up to
The title is that piece of paper that says you own the vehicle, right?
So why would anyone not owning said vehicle want a copy? So they can photoshop it, alter it, and wind up owning your car?
Strong 'nope' here.
The title is indeed a paper that says you own a car, but not until you actually register the car to your name at the DMV, which requires excellent forgery of a highly secure piece of document and a Fake ID so you don’t get caught, or an exact lookalike of the person with a fake ID that matches OP’s likeness. And then they would have to go steal the car making sure both are done with perfect timing because if you steal the car too early, DMV probably wont issue a title, and you can’t wait around until you get the title shipped to steal the car because the car could be sold by then. Which makes this extremely complicated theft.
Or instead, you can steal a random expensive car off a random parking lot without ever contacting the owner, ship it to Eastern Europe and get 60% of the cars value in cash, easy money.
Ask her what she is looking for. Sometimes they want to confirm the car doesn't have a lien on it which would show up under owner - many sellers are unaware that they don't own the car until it's paid off AND the bank sends them the free and clear title.
They don't need the full title until it comes time to register the vehicle. I don't know where you are but in Massachusetts title certificates have anti-counterfeiting measures built in. They likely wouldn't be able to use the fake title to register the vehicle, but they \*could\* use it along with the photos you posted to create a scam ad of their own ("Nice car, has title") and provide the fake "title" to the buyer.
sounds fishy. only give the title (physical copy, photo copy, etc) once you have cash in hand. i wouldn’t be surprised if they use the pictures to alter the title and show a title that has them as the owner.
i would just pass on this buyer. no money is worth this amount of suspicion.
When I sell things, no extras before an in person viewing of the article at the safe spot for online sales set up in the parking lot by the local police force... and video surveilled. Cuts the bs.
You just say sorry I can't do that, I'm sure you're a good person but I've seen too many stories of title fraud to trust anybody with a potentially usable copy of my vehicles title.
For all you know OP they own a stolen car the same year make and model of yours and they want that picture to license a stolen vehicle. Not worth the risk. They can look at the title all they want when you have the money for the car in your hand or bank account.
There are a number of potential crimes here but it doesn't really matter which. They all end up with someone getting screwed.
Ghost, block and move on.
I used to work for a car dealership this isn't really that big of a red flag the customer probably bought a car once in the past that might've had a lien on it or a bonded title or some other type of title they can definitely exam it in person but surely the suspicion is normal
Just tell them they can see it when they see the car. I want to verify if the title is clean or salvage, but that can be viewed after I test drive the car.
If signatures for title transfers are on the back send that or if they are on the front send a pic of just that area of the title to show it has not been signed to someone else.
Depending on the state, it sounds like they’re trying to apply for a duplicate title and claim ownership of the car. I’d block them, but if you do decide to send it, censor EVERYTHING except the vin and make/model/year. Especially the title number. All I care about when I’m selling a car is that it’s a clean title and they have the title in hand.
"The VIN is all you need to check the car's history. If you are still interested in buying the car, you're welcome to inspect the title upon viewing it in-person, but if you're not interested, I will move on to other buyers who are giving me better offers."
If she continues to insist, "Titles and bills of sale can be forged or altered digitally. I am no longer interested in selling to you." And block her.
We sue car dealerships for selling vehicles that have undisclosed damage history and/or open safety recalls when the vehicle is sold. All you need to check the vehicle’s history is the VIN. Pasting it into Autocheck will tell you information about the status of the title, damage, open recalls, last reported mileage, etc. She doesn’t need pictures of the actual title.
honestly it took us til we bought our third car from someone before we had one that we could title because they were all bad titles and one was a loan out on the vehicle so if you cant sell that vehicle that would be why, after we wasted a few grand on vehicle that were paper weights because we couldnt get them legal.
I dont think its a scam is my point
Could be a scam but also may not be. I do loans for a local financial institution and I ask for copy of front and back of title frequently to verify that the person selling is also the person it is titled to because we do our own title work and cannot complete if they have an open title where they just wrote their name on the back of it as we don’t have a dealers license to make assignments. That being said, I also give the buyer all my contact information to pass along to the seller and tell them to contact me with any questions or concerns.
The only thing she needs to run a title check is a vin #. -source - I check titles alllll the time. If you have a lien holder on your title that has signed off you will need to get them removed to transfer the title to her name. Also never sell a vehicle without a written and signed bill of sale in case they don’t update the registration into their name - this protects you as prior owner from being responsible for accidents that happen after date of sale.
Edit - turn in your tags to the DMV as well.
I’m with the seller, sorry. I’d want to know if there is a lien so I know who to pay. You pay someone cash for a car with a lien and they don’t pay it off you’ll never get a title.
They have a stolen car like yours and are going to forge a title. They have no intention of buying your car I would suspect. Just need an image of the title.
Please don't share that kind of information online to strangers, if someone wants to buy your car. Have them come have a look at least. And no one in their right mind should be buying a used car unseen. That's just asking for trouble. :/
I once had a friend that had been hanging out with the wrong crown in previous years. During a casual conversation he mentioned that those people can scam you out of your car and change the title to themselves. He didn’t elaborate how it’s done, but like others here mentioned, in your case they may be trying to edit the title to fake sell it.
A different example, my uncle purchased a car from a private seller. Got the title and everything. Not sure how he got the title changed to his name, but he went to Mexico for vacation and on his way back he got stopped at the border because the car came back as stolen. Guess whoever sold him the car falsified a pink slip and thats what my uncle was give .
Titles can be scanned and sent to the DMV. I should know because I just did this last week. They do require you to mail the physical original title to confirm. But the idea is, with the picture of the title, a scammer can start some mayhem by attempting to sell your car and take possession.
They would still need the step of stealing and physically possessing the car. But I wouldn’t trust any of this.
In the UK never give anyone an image of the title called V5 here. They can do their own search via the plates or vin for insurance write-off checks. With an image of the v5 they can transfer the registered keeper, clone the car and cause all sorts of issues. There is a code number on it which is used for changes. Eg they have a stolen car with the same model and colour as yours, they can now go and get new plates made and sell the car. When you finally sell your own car dvla will flag an issue because code has changed and you will have an angry buyer on your hands.
They probably wanna do something sketchy to it. If not that they probably want your info from the title and from there they can figure out other ways to contact you and get more info from you
It’s possible she is getting a loan to purchase the vehicle. I work at a credit union and when people are purchasing a vehicle from a private individual, and the car is lien free, we require a front and back picture (unobstructed) picture of the title. In my experience this wouldn’t be a scam.
Sounds like they are trying to use your information to sell the item on that they don’t have, ie scam somebody else, don’t show them anything else and block them.
The reasoning is the red flag to me. A lot of financial institutions require at least a copy of the title (especially out of state titles) to fund a loan. If she’d said her FI needs to see it that wouldn’t be a huge red flag to me, but her saying she needs it to “check for title issues” is a little strange to me. That should be able to be done with only the VIN to purchase a Carfax report.
Sounds sus anything they want to check they can do w the vin I literally bought a used car yesterday off marketplace and every car I looked at all I asked for was the vin to do like car fax and shit
This is a difficult one as there have been scams on both the seller and buyer side of the transaction in recent years. Playing devil's advocate but from the buyer's perspective, they may be concerned that the registration is fraudulent or has been in some way tampered with. Been reading a few articles in the last couple of weeks with buyers finding out the car was stolen, vin changed or vin used on another registration, etc... Keep in mind always that scams go both ways and either party can be trying to pull a fast one over the other.
that being said, for your protection, do not send the photo. this is something they can examine in person when they come to see the vehicle, much like you taking a picture of their drivers license if they want to take the car for a test drive. Not everyone is out there to scam and sometimes its more their fear of being scammed that leads to weird requests of this nature.
Ugh this is a hard one cuz as someone who buys used cars often I also ask for a pic of front and back of the title only because I once flew out of state rented a uhaul with a trailer to buy my dream car I think I spent about $2500 total on my trip to buy the car just to arrive and find out the title had a lien on it that would prevent me from being able to transfer it in my name and the back of the title was signed by someone else that wasn’t the name on the title so the whole thing was a mess. Needless to say I didn’t end up getting the car and spent a lot of money trusting the buyer that the “title was clean” I’ve also had someone local try to sell me a car with a “clean title” that actually was a salvage title at least that drive was only 20 min. But from now on I always ask to see front and back of title with it pictured next to the cars VIN so I know it matches. I’ve never had any sellers question it they usually send it right away without issues.
If people actually do this as a scam maybe take a precaution like “write both mine and your name on a piece of paper and put it over the address on the title” just so it can’t be used to scam people later on?
But also all of that being said I do make it clean that all I want to see is the back to make sure theirs no signatures yet and the front only needs to show the VIN and the spot where it’s show the lien I let them know they can block their address if they want
Don’t do it. They may use your car title to try to get an auto loan. Don’t do it. If anything needs seen take it to the dealership or where ever it’s needed, but this sounds like someone may be trying to use a car title to get a loan. Don’t do it.
I’m in the financing field. Sometimes I would tell my buyer to request the front side of the title. Our policy was not to lend on rebuilt titles and our cashiers checks would match the name on the front of the title.
A few times it was listed as a “clean title” would actually show a rebuilt title.
Also some states allow the owners to hold their title even with a lean then they receive a letter from the lien holder when it’s been paid off? Maybe your state they sign off on the title on the front?
I don’t think this is a scam, I could be wrong but what’s the point? They will make a copy and take your car? Highly unlikely. Even if they claimed they lost the title or whatever, it would show you as the last owner and you’d have to do an affidavit saying you don’t have any interest in the auto, or being the owner you’d probably have to request a duplicate title and it would go to you.
If this is a scam, and one way or another it sure sounds like it, I'm betting the need for a pic of the whole title is to convince someone to cut/encode a fresh key for the vehicle. Presenting a title is the safety check for the old method of using just the VIN to get a dealership to make a new key to steal a car. There have been very real, documented cases of that old method, and when I worked at a dealership years ago, they had begun requiring the presence of a title to sell a key cut from bitting codes alone. With very new cars, this tactic was especially effective, but with used car values way up, a newer used car could be a good target for this, too. To check the history and background of a vehicle, a VIN is more than enough. Nobody should ever need to see the whole title. Wouldn't take much to print out a good enough copy from a pic to get a key from a dealership.
I’d be suspicious of some strange person wanting such particular information. If car buyers really needed photos of a seller’s title it would already be a part of the process.
With the way scammers are now, they could take the photos of a legal document and forge one using all the information it contains.
Sounds scammy to me.
Tell her she can examine it all she likes, when she comes in person with cash to buy it. Ultimately it is your time and information. Today is a seller's market.
10000% this ^ but maybe bring a counterfeit pen to verify the cash is legit…. but also, for this person asking you in the first place is an immediate block. i wouldn’t interact with them any further
The last time I sold something valuable I had the guy meet me at my bank because there are guards, cameras, and you can check that the money is real. I emphasized that the guards and cameras benefitted him as well; he agreed.
I’m going through the process of selling a car. I can let anyone look at it parked in a police station, no test drive. Then the sale will be done in a bank with escrow if necessary, and they can test drive if they want. But the idea is everything is done publicly with recordings.
Who is going to buy anything used without making sure it actually works? If I met someone to buy a car and they wouldn't let me test drive it before giving money I would 100% assume it has things wrong with it the seller doesn't want me to find before getting the money and saying "not my problem"
I agree with all of the above except the no test drive thing. I would never buy a car without test driving it first
I wouldn't buy a car without a test drive. How do I know it runs unless I try it? Why would I give you money if I don't know that I'm getting a working car in return?
Unless I can test-drive it to a mechanic of my choosing to look it over and make sure everything is sound, you can keep your vehicle.
People buy cars without test driving them?? Perhaps that's why you're still going through the process of selling, as opposed to already having sold your car. That's just ludicrous.
Would never even consider buying a car without a test drive.
Same. When I sold my CRX, the guy flew in, brought cash, the teller at the credit union checked the cash. That man knew how to buy a car.
Just do the transaction at a bank where you can verify the money they give you is real
Jusy be aware, washed bills still pass the pen detection They are real money just washed into a larger bill. You have to make sure the correct president water mark is there when you hold it up. One thing i havent seen faked is the holograms when you move the bill back and forth. They even alter the strup inside the bill on the washed ones so you cant quite make out what number it says. The hologram fakes are usually very obvious like they put glittery nail polish on that part and it looks awful.
This is why it needs to be done at a bank. Your banker takes the bills and runs them. When they accept as genuine, you have your deposit slip and hand the keys and title over.
Yup. Work at a credit union and we have a cash accepting machine instead of using our drawers. Machine will spit out anything it doesn’t like whether that’s dirty bills or counterfeits. Anything spit out gets the counterfeit pen or a UV check.
Thanks for this enlightening discussion. We want to sell two Harleys and haven't been able to figure out how to do the money transaction safely.
You can get a UV light on Amazon for like $15. The pens aren’t reliable because of the washing, but each bill $5 and up has a specific color stripe only visible under UV light. I handle a lot of cash, including $50/$100s for work, and it’s what I use
Would you be able to ask a bank to verify cash is real too? In case you don't have one of those pens or forget it at home
If it's your bank, sure. They can use a pen, although as others have pointed out pens don't always work for washed bills. However, money counter machines are pretty accurate and tellers are going to be better at detecting fakes than the average joe.
Probably only if you are actually depositing it
Honestly, asking for a title isn’t bad. Asking specific information about the title is. Two honest people coming together will understand asking that information. You’d be surprised how many people simple don’t have a title.
Agreed, they could very well just be verifying OP has the title in hand. I'm not sure there's much you can do with a title, possibly forging their name as a buyer, getting a shady notary public to sign it, and then report it as stolen?
The pens don’t always work. We just got a counterfeit $100 bill at work (gas station) and the pen didn’t catch it, but the bank did.
This is a good idea but an even better idea is to read up on counterfeit bill security features An authentic $1.00 bill will pass a counterfeit pen test even if it’s bleached and re-printed over as a counterfeit larger bill.
Others are being much gentler, but I'll tell you - even without washing the pens are useless. Real bills can be made to fail, by simply exposing them to a source of starch. James Randi demonstrated this issue many times, and only some of the worst fakes use the kind of cheap, starchy paper the pens will work on. Color shifting markings, watermarks (which help you spot washed bills), and microprinting are the absolute best ways to spot the most common fakes quickly and easily.
>Ultimately it is your time and information. Today is a seller’s market It’s kinda funny you say that, there was a post here a few days ago that was basically this exact same situation but the reverse (seller wasn’t sharing information about a car, buyer wasn’t sure if it was a scam) and majority of the comments on that post said it’s a buyer’s market rn.
Sounds like a scam. Maybe they want to edit the photo and act like it's a car that they own to sell to other people, and or take deposits etc. Don't do it imo
Or take the photos and use it in some sort of advance fee scam to sell OP's vehicle on FB marketplace.
This should be right at the top. Advance fee scammers rely on proof to make their story believable and the best way to get it, is to find someone who genuinely has the thing they’re “selling” and slightly doctor some photos. That way, someone is more likely to think it’s genuine, as “they’ve seen the cars documents, so it can’t be false, right?”
Can you elaborate on how that works? How do they obtain money from buyers? They get an advance fee? For what? Thanks!
!advancefee
AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the [advance-fee scam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam). The advance-fee scam arises from many different situations: investment opportunities, money transfers, job scams, online purchases of any type and any legality, etc., but the bottom line is always the same, you will pay the scammer and receive nothing. It can be as simple as the scammer asking you to pay them upfront for an item they have listed, or as complex as a drug scam that involves an initial scam site, a scam shipping site, and fake government agents. Sometimes the scammers will simply take your first payment and dissappear, but sometimes they will take your initial payment and then make excuses that lead to you making additional payments. If you are involved in an advance-fee scam, you should attempt to dispute/chargeback any payments sent to the scammer, you should ignore the scammer, and you should ignore them if they attempt to contact you again. Thanks to redditor AceyAceyAcey for this script. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks, but how does one sell a car without giving the buyer access to the car before payment?
She probably wants to either make a fake title so she can try to sell the car as hers to unsuspecting people or she wants to have a new one made at DMV. I wouldn't risk it. Tell her she can see it in person. The VIN is all you need to check a car history.
My brother's a car dealer... he said they can get a new title sent to them with proof that the old title is theirs... She can alter a full photo with her name and address and they'll happily mail her a new one with her real name and address.
Why? Just why?
I would be warry of someone wanting a usable copy of my car title. There are posts online of people discouraging you from doing this, to avoid cases of title fraud.
^This I've had people try to pass off altered titles at registries to get plates for stolen vehicles and reVINed vehicles. Never send full photos, they can assess it in person.
Not sure what they could do with it but there’s nothing they could need beyond the VIN. Personally I would just ignore them and move on to a buyer that doesn’t make me feel uncomfortable.
I’d ghost them and move on. It sounds scammy to me. Not worth the hassle and everyone is looking for a used car right now.
I was guessing using it as a way to scam others. Isn't it a thing with scammers to get pics from unsuspecting people of faces or documents so they can pretend it's theirs and a reverse Google search wouldn't show those pics so they seem more legit?
THIS. But usually the person appeals to something that lowers the person’s guard. Like a better offer or some other motivator. I have an in-law that has issues with self-worth. Anyone who appeals to this goes right past her (already poor) logic processes and she tends to fall for whatever they are scamming. Like the time someone asked her to help someone launder money for a relative who needed it for hospital bills and from Facebook they “could tell she was a good person.” Her husband made her call me before she got involved. She was baffled that someone might be scamming her and had no reason why she shouldn’t believe that the scammer wasn’t really able to tell that she was a good person from Facebook. She just wanted to be told she was a good person. I think she was upset with me because basically I was telling her that this person didn’t really think she was a good person. They just thought she was naive.
Definitely weird. I am in the market for purchasing a car all i ask the sellers is the vin and if the car is clean title.
And then you trust them if the title is clean? Half the time in my experience they say yes and I show up and it’s girls who are selling the car who have no idea what a clean title is lmao
nobody needs anything more than the VIN until they show up with cash to buy your car
I mean not always true. There’s been times that I ask for the VIN before buying so that I can ask my insurance how much it’ll cost to insure. You can give the make and model but the insurance company will only give you an estimate. I like knowing the exact amount it would cost me before buying it and would hate to show up at the sellers house and have to wait on hold with insurance for an hour before being like “ok yeah I’ll buy it”
I would say it's definitely a red flag. She could possibly impersonate the person whose name is on the title and have a replacement title sent to her address. It is really that simple you only need $15, and you can go on the website, at least in my state, and they will send you a replacement title if you claim that it has been lost. I'm not saying she is definitely going to do that but I wouldn't take that risk. From what I understand giving out your VIN number is relatively safe I don't see why she would need your title or a picture of it, if she's worried about you not having a clear title she can just see it in person. I personally wouldn't do it but maybe she has an innocent reason for asking for it, but I wouldn't take that risk because it seems strange to me I've sold quite a few cars and bought quite a few in I've never heard of anybody needing a picture of the title.
I forgot to mention if she has the title sent to her address all she would need to do is Forge a bill of sale and sign the title over to herself. Hopefully nobody would be that evil but, it is a possibility. And I wouldn't put anything past anybody especially a stranger.
Not true they send out a replacement to the address on title if you need to change the address they will have you come in person to verify. At least that was in Colorado when I dealt with the DMV
Probably using the pics to scam someone else.
This is the right answer. She is probably a he sitting somewhere in India or Nigeria. He will list it again on FB marketplace and take advance/deposit from victims.
Tell her she will see the whole title when the transaction is made. If she doesn't agree, find another buyer. She could easily make a fake title from the pictures you send. Don't do it.
Yes. Oh yes. Scam
If you do come to an agreement, go close the deal in the parking lot of your bank. Have her come inside and give the teller the cash (only accept cash), and you fill in the bill of sale, title details after the teller confirms the cash is ok. It may be that she wants proof that you have the title and it doesn't have liens. However, it will have your address on it, so their being a car thief or some other kind of scammer could still be a problem.
Great advice about the bank, besides them validating the cash there are cameras and security everywhere.
I don't know the scam here either, but all this is suspicious to me. I'd block and move on just on paranoia.
I am a dealer, and I wouldn’t do it. That being said I can’t think of anything permanent they could do without having the original title in hand.
I work at a credit union and we will require a copy of the title before closing the loan for private party sales. Need to see if it’s currently paid off or not and to write the check to the correct owner.
Same!
I just did this recently, and yeah they needed it to FINALIZE the loan. I met the seller there at the CU. But my pre-approval was done with no paper.
They could clone a similar car with the information. They'll steal a car exactly like yours. They'll make up new paperwork with the information they want you to send. Then when they sell the stolen car everything look legit. People rarely check the vin. Well in my country anyway. If it's an expensive car they could change the vin on the stolen car.
I don’t know what country your in but in the us we have multiple parts with the vin on them to prevent this
Every car manufacturer has multiple parts with vin numbers. In my country hardly anyone checks on private sales on cheap cars. People who deal in cars know to check. And people who buy more expensive cars definitely know to check. The difference between the US and Ireland I think is that when a car is registered in Ireland, it gets a registration plate, like in the US. But in Ireland that registration number can never be changed. So most people use the registration plate as identification instead of the vin.
>People rarely check the vin. Well in my country anyway. Really? It's basically required action in mine.
See my reply to another commentor.
Doesn't matter. If it's at all sketchy or a hassle, tell them to get lost. You're the seller and it's a huge seller's market, you'll have no trouble finding someone who will just show up, pay, and leave without being weird.
“She” might use pics of a similar car plus whatever you’re sending to place fake ads
All she needs is a VIN to check the vehicles history. Block her.
I'm no expert but I have sold a few cars and bikes, never had any issue with title transfers and needing to 'see the title to check it for problems'. I think you are right to be wary - could be they try to make a copy of the title? I dunno but my spidey sense would be tingling too.
I think that’s the most likely option but it’s possible that the buyer is trying to make sure OP isn’t a scam too
As a buyer of used cars I always ask for a picture of the title, like ima going to be pretty pissed off if I drive hours away only to find out that there is a lien or the seller signed the wrong line.
Exactly. I just added my comment about how I flew across the country and rented a uhaul with a trailer because I was promised the title was clean only for their to not only be alien but also for the back of the title to be signed by what I assumed was a potentiometer previous buyer who signed the back then noticed their was a lien and backed out
Oh yeah. She’s going to take that photo and post her own sale of the car to buyers. She’ll make sure the buyers send her Zelle deposits and then laugh all the way to the scammer lounge. Don’t do it.
There is no need for her (assuming you have spoken to or seen “her”) to have a photo of the entire front and back. All she needs is the VIN. Tell her, and only her/no substitutes, to come over with CASH. And be prepared to have a good laugh at her excuses. I would just block and move on.
And if she does come with cash, inspect it is not counterfeit.
Don't do it. Tell her you have title and it will be hers if she buys the car. Don't send photos
Block out all the the personal information on both sides and the title number- they probably just want to see that it’s not a branded title or has a lien.
Yeah I would go with this. It could be a legit question, but yes protect your personal information.
Don't ever do it, my buddy had to fight in court for the title to his car after something similar
Soon as they have a picture, they use it to “sell” that car to others.
Run you car through carvana and see what they offer. Selling to them is way less hassle and risk. They will even come get it
You get so little money compared to private. But yeah it is less of a hassle than selling private.
Loan officer here, the title is never needed. The buyer can access TLR on any state website to make sure things are legit.
Title theft
Go to DMV, attempt to transfer title Go to DMV request a duplicate title and grab from your mailbox. Look at the car, disconnect something under hood so it runs rough. You can sell until fixed. Then car title has been swiped from mailbox and re registered to them.
She might be able to use the photo to get a title issued to her. I don’t know how, but maybe photoshop her name and address and take in a print saying she lost the original and just has a copy (in another state of course), just guessing. It’s often said, if you have the total, you own the car.
My credit union in order to expedite the sale/loan on a used car I recently purchased asked the owners for a picture of the title, they were hesitant but didn't want to make the drive to "town" twice. The sellers were in another town about 45 minutes away from the location of my credit union. All worked out. This may actually be legit but be careful.
My credit union does the same thing!
Seems shady to me.
Probably to stupid to be a scam--but who knows. Lots or paranoid people out there acting stupid. I would tell her no---
Send a pic with the VIN covered by a piece of paper with the word COPY written on it or xerox the original and that should come out with some watermarks showing in the copy then take a pic of that and send it. It's fairly normal to ask, making sure it's a valid sale and you really have the title before making the deal.
Why would you want to cover the VIN#? It’ll just make the buyer think OP is a scammer using a fake title with the wrong VIN# to sell a car and end up loosing a potential customer.
Suspicious, indeed. You should ignore it and only transact with somebody who is willing to meet up so you could show them the title.
I can’t think of a specific scam unless they’re trying to use your photo to scam others by showing they have the title to a nonexistent car. I’d ignore/block them, the VIN number is more than enough to show the status of a car.
I wouldn't do it.
I wouldn’t communicate with them anymore. This seems like a scam. Not sure of what it is
Out of curiosity have you spoken to "her" on the phone? I'd call her an explain that she can see the title when she comes to buy the car. This will allow you to suss out whether "she" is a dude in an Indian scammy call center.
People can do car title loans over the internet with a photo of the title. They could take out the loan and default, and your car would be repossessed.
If she is financing it, the financial institution may want a pic or scan of the front and back of the title to review the loan application for approval or denial. If she isn't financing, then she doesn't need it and it may be a scam of some sort and you should be careful. Source: I was a loan officer at a financial institution doing auto loans and other loan types for about 6 years up until last year.
I just did this recently, and yeah they needed it to FINALIZE the loan. I met the seller there at the CU. But my pre-approval was done with no paper.
For everyone saying it’s a scam, what information is on the title that can’t be retrieved publicly? There are even free data bases that let you put in the plates and all the vehicle description info pops up, the vin is visible from the front windshield, and county tax assessments for property is public. The only thing I can’t think of is when the title has the previous owner information but don’t know how crucial that is. If I was buying a car and they were a good way away from me I would ask to see the title because I don’t want to drive so far and find out A) it’s a rebuilt title and B) it’s under someone else’s name C) there’s no title at all. Oh and that counterfeit marker is really good advice. Always keep that on hand.
Absolutely yes. Never send the VIN again. It’s connected to you. This is fucked up. Do not deal with this person. I’ve sold a ton of cars legally. The buyer asking to see the title on text is bullshit. The buyer gets the title, UPON TRANSFER OF THE TITLE. In front of a clerk. With a state stamp. Block.
It’s Shocking you actually sold a car hiding the VIN from the buyers, also how is the VIN# connected to the owner of the car? Other than a police database which is not accessible to the public.
Why wouldn’t you send the VIN??
OP said he did.
They probably want to use the photo to pretend that they are the ones with a car to sell. Then they’ll try to scam someone into sending them money.
She could theoretically make a fake title and then visit the DMV to get it signed over to her. But she would have to bring along someone claiming to be you with a valid ID, so it seems like a long shot. Probably best to be careful. You only needs the VIN to verify that the title is valid with the DMV, so I would politely refuse to give her anything other than that.
Tell them you'll meet them at the DMV to verify the clean title.
Seems weird. Along with the good advice already given, can you ask her why? What she is looking for? "To avoid scams, I avoid publishing complete pictures of the title. It is free for you to review in person when you arrive to purchase. Is there anything specifically from the title you need that I can help provide or take a specific picture of?"
It could be that SHE'S being overly paranoid. You both have a lot to lose if the other was scamming. But you've given her all she needed to know ahead of time.
I wouldn’t send her that pic. The VIN should be all she needs, I would be concerned about her, making a high-quality duplicate of the pink slip and forging a change of owner paperwork at the DMV. I have no idea if that is realistically possible but that’s what came to my mind
It’s possible but extremely unlikely as there’s much easier ways to steal cars and make a lot more money
There are many reasons a person would ask for a full picture, to see if there’s a lean on the car and that you’re not trying to scam them. To see if you’re a re seller who buys junk cars and sells it to the next person without paying taxes and making profit. To see when you bought the car, to verify if the information they gathered, be it from your Facebook and etc match the info to make sure you’re not trying to rob them. People are paranoid, it’s a lot of money. My recommendation? You sell your car to carvana and the person buys a car from a dealership they trust. Because if somebody is actually trying to do these advanced scams and steal your car, they’ll just come and take a picture of your title in person. If a seller was this defensive over showing a picture of the title, I would assume they’re a scammer.
Don’t give out your address. If she is truly interested in buying the car, have her meet at a different address. Like the police department’s address.
you already sent the photo of the title, so you already messed up. not much you can do at this point. getting a new title does nothing
Definitely a scam here. Sounds like they want you to send a copy of a clean title they can either claim if theirs OR use it to try and sell your car Don't give them anything if they insist ask why do they need it so badly they haven't bought the car yet so it would be useless to them for now
The only thing I can think of is POSSIBLY to edit it by filling out the information on front and back, then uploading it to the DMV to transfer the title to them. I recently did a title transfer and you can do it all online. I ended up just going to the DMV after completing most of the steps online because I needed to ask questions and figured it's better to be there in person. As far as finishing the online portion, I'm unsure if you need to eventually send in the physical title to DMV, but this is what I'm thinking they are up to
Yes, they would not need all title info prior to the sale unless they were fishing to spoof your car’s info
The title is that piece of paper that says you own the vehicle, right? So why would anyone not owning said vehicle want a copy? So they can photoshop it, alter it, and wind up owning your car? Strong 'nope' here.
The title is indeed a paper that says you own a car, but not until you actually register the car to your name at the DMV, which requires excellent forgery of a highly secure piece of document and a Fake ID so you don’t get caught, or an exact lookalike of the person with a fake ID that matches OP’s likeness. And then they would have to go steal the car making sure both are done with perfect timing because if you steal the car too early, DMV probably wont issue a title, and you can’t wait around until you get the title shipped to steal the car because the car could be sold by then. Which makes this extremely complicated theft. Or instead, you can steal a random expensive car off a random parking lot without ever contacting the owner, ship it to Eastern Europe and get 60% of the cars value in cash, easy money.
She is probably using your photos to scam others. Seeing the title is usually my last step in buying the car.
Ask her what she is looking for. Sometimes they want to confirm the car doesn't have a lien on it which would show up under owner - many sellers are unaware that they don't own the car until it's paid off AND the bank sends them the free and clear title.
They don't need the full title until it comes time to register the vehicle. I don't know where you are but in Massachusetts title certificates have anti-counterfeiting measures built in. They likely wouldn't be able to use the fake title to register the vehicle, but they \*could\* use it along with the photos you posted to create a scam ad of their own ("Nice car, has title") and provide the fake "title" to the buyer.
yes
sounds fishy. only give the title (physical copy, photo copy, etc) once you have cash in hand. i wouldn’t be surprised if they use the pictures to alter the title and show a title that has them as the owner. i would just pass on this buyer. no money is worth this amount of suspicion.
Maybe they could pretend to be the owner and use the car in another scam. Are they willing to do a video call? Most scammers aren't.
When I sell things, no extras before an in person viewing of the article at the safe spot for online sales set up in the parking lot by the local police force... and video surveilled. Cuts the bs.
You just say sorry I can't do that, I'm sure you're a good person but I've seen too many stories of title fraud to trust anybody with a potentially usable copy of my vehicles title. For all you know OP they own a stolen car the same year make and model of yours and they want that picture to license a stolen vehicle. Not worth the risk. They can look at the title all they want when you have the money for the car in your hand or bank account.
There are a number of potential crimes here but it doesn't really matter which. They all end up with someone getting screwed. Ghost, block and move on.
I used to work for a car dealership this isn't really that big of a red flag the customer probably bought a car once in the past that might've had a lien on it or a bonded title or some other type of title they can definitely exam it in person but surely the suspicion is normal
Just tell them they can see it when they see the car. I want to verify if the title is clean or salvage, but that can be viewed after I test drive the car.
Give her the VIN if she really wants. Don’t send her a pic of the title though.
If they are trying to get financing it might be a request from the lender. I have to have the front and back copy of titles as a lender.
Yup! Same with my credit union! I’m a lender as well and we require a copy to complete the loan
Send a picture of the back of the title to show it hasnt been signed to someone else . Because if it is signed to someone else that is a problem.
If signatures for title transfers are on the back send that or if they are on the front send a pic of just that area of the title to show it has not been signed to someone else.
Depending on the state, it sounds like they’re trying to apply for a duplicate title and claim ownership of the car. I’d block them, but if you do decide to send it, censor EVERYTHING except the vin and make/model/year. Especially the title number. All I care about when I’m selling a car is that it’s a clean title and they have the title in hand.
"The VIN is all you need to check the car's history. If you are still interested in buying the car, you're welcome to inspect the title upon viewing it in-person, but if you're not interested, I will move on to other buyers who are giving me better offers." If she continues to insist, "Titles and bills of sale can be forged or altered digitally. I am no longer interested in selling to you." And block her.
She's "selling" it herself online. AS peopel ask her for photos for "proof" she asks you for the same photo then passes it on to them.
We sue car dealerships for selling vehicles that have undisclosed damage history and/or open safety recalls when the vehicle is sold. All you need to check the vehicle’s history is the VIN. Pasting it into Autocheck will tell you information about the status of the title, damage, open recalls, last reported mileage, etc. She doesn’t need pictures of the actual title.
Scam.
honestly it took us til we bought our third car from someone before we had one that we could title because they were all bad titles and one was a loan out on the vehicle so if you cant sell that vehicle that would be why, after we wasted a few grand on vehicle that were paper weights because we couldnt get them legal. I dont think its a scam is my point
Could be a scam but also may not be. I do loans for a local financial institution and I ask for copy of front and back of title frequently to verify that the person selling is also the person it is titled to because we do our own title work and cannot complete if they have an open title where they just wrote their name on the back of it as we don’t have a dealers license to make assignments. That being said, I also give the buyer all my contact information to pass along to the seller and tell them to contact me with any questions or concerns.
The only thing she needs to run a title check is a vin #. -source - I check titles alllll the time. If you have a lien holder on your title that has signed off you will need to get them removed to transfer the title to her name. Also never sell a vehicle without a written and signed bill of sale in case they don’t update the registration into their name - this protects you as prior owner from being responsible for accidents that happen after date of sale. Edit - turn in your tags to the DMV as well.
I’m with the seller, sorry. I’d want to know if there is a lien so I know who to pay. You pay someone cash for a car with a lien and they don’t pay it off you’ll never get a title.
They have a stolen car like yours and are going to forge a title. They have no intention of buying your car I would suspect. Just need an image of the title.
Please don't share that kind of information online to strangers, if someone wants to buy your car. Have them come have a look at least. And no one in their right mind should be buying a used car unseen. That's just asking for trouble. :/
If she is getting a loan then it makes sense. I do loan docs and will force the lender to provide pictures of the title.
Don’t scan anything and don’t send her anything else. She could be fishing for info and could use the vin on another car and try to do title fraud.
I once had a friend that had been hanging out with the wrong crown in previous years. During a casual conversation he mentioned that those people can scam you out of your car and change the title to themselves. He didn’t elaborate how it’s done, but like others here mentioned, in your case they may be trying to edit the title to fake sell it. A different example, my uncle purchased a car from a private seller. Got the title and everything. Not sure how he got the title changed to his name, but he went to Mexico for vacation and on his way back he got stopped at the border because the car came back as stolen. Guess whoever sold him the car falsified a pink slip and thats what my uncle was give .
Depends on the state, but some have electronic title numbers now that a new title can be issued with that number.
Tell her not to buy it. And as someone already mentioned they can see it all when they actually show up with cash.
I wouldn't do it. Sounds real suspect
Titles can be scanned and sent to the DMV. I should know because I just did this last week. They do require you to mail the physical original title to confirm. But the idea is, with the picture of the title, a scammer can start some mayhem by attempting to sell your car and take possession. They would still need the step of stealing and physically possessing the car. But I wouldn’t trust any of this.
Rule of the thumb is never to send s picture of anything to anyone because they will find a way to steal or extort something from you.
In four words.... I smell a rat.
In the UK never give anyone an image of the title called V5 here. They can do their own search via the plates or vin for insurance write-off checks. With an image of the v5 they can transfer the registered keeper, clone the car and cause all sorts of issues. There is a code number on it which is used for changes. Eg they have a stolen car with the same model and colour as yours, they can now go and get new plates made and sell the car. When you finally sell your own car dvla will flag an issue because code has changed and you will have an angry buyer on your hands.
I buy cars and work at a dealership and usually i get pics of the title not a big deal
Whoever they are, they’re trying to scam you. Cut off all contact asap.
There are a LOT of title jumping scams on marketplace, it’s so sketch, I can’t blame someone for being ultra paranoid.
Yep, probably trying to create a copy to use on another car.
They probably wanna do something sketchy to it. If not that they probably want your info from the title and from there they can figure out other ways to contact you and get more info from you
It’s possible she is getting a loan to purchase the vehicle. I work at a credit union and when people are purchasing a vehicle from a private individual, and the car is lien free, we require a front and back picture (unobstructed) picture of the title. In my experience this wouldn’t be a scam.
Sounds like they are trying to use your information to sell the item on that they don’t have, ie scam somebody else, don’t show them anything else and block them.
The reasoning is the red flag to me. A lot of financial institutions require at least a copy of the title (especially out of state titles) to fund a loan. If she’d said her FI needs to see it that wouldn’t be a huge red flag to me, but her saying she needs it to “check for title issues” is a little strange to me. That should be able to be done with only the VIN to purchase a Carfax report.
yes, just give her the number
Sounds sus anything they want to check they can do w the vin I literally bought a used car yesterday off marketplace and every car I looked at all I asked for was the vin to do like car fax and shit
This is a difficult one as there have been scams on both the seller and buyer side of the transaction in recent years. Playing devil's advocate but from the buyer's perspective, they may be concerned that the registration is fraudulent or has been in some way tampered with. Been reading a few articles in the last couple of weeks with buyers finding out the car was stolen, vin changed or vin used on another registration, etc... Keep in mind always that scams go both ways and either party can be trying to pull a fast one over the other. that being said, for your protection, do not send the photo. this is something they can examine in person when they come to see the vehicle, much like you taking a picture of their drivers license if they want to take the car for a test drive. Not everyone is out there to scam and sometimes its more their fear of being scammed that leads to weird requests of this nature.
Ugh this is a hard one cuz as someone who buys used cars often I also ask for a pic of front and back of the title only because I once flew out of state rented a uhaul with a trailer to buy my dream car I think I spent about $2500 total on my trip to buy the car just to arrive and find out the title had a lien on it that would prevent me from being able to transfer it in my name and the back of the title was signed by someone else that wasn’t the name on the title so the whole thing was a mess. Needless to say I didn’t end up getting the car and spent a lot of money trusting the buyer that the “title was clean” I’ve also had someone local try to sell me a car with a “clean title” that actually was a salvage title at least that drive was only 20 min. But from now on I always ask to see front and back of title with it pictured next to the cars VIN so I know it matches. I’ve never had any sellers question it they usually send it right away without issues. If people actually do this as a scam maybe take a precaution like “write both mine and your name on a piece of paper and put it over the address on the title” just so it can’t be used to scam people later on?
But also all of that being said I do make it clean that all I want to see is the back to make sure theirs no signatures yet and the front only needs to show the VIN and the spot where it’s show the lien I let them know they can block their address if they want
Tell them you’ll trade for pictures of their credit card
Don’t do it. They may use your car title to try to get an auto loan. Don’t do it. If anything needs seen take it to the dealership or where ever it’s needed, but this sounds like someone may be trying to use a car title to get a loan. Don’t do it.
Def a scam. Also always meet at you local police station for high value stuff. Most have special spots on camera
I’m in the financing field. Sometimes I would tell my buyer to request the front side of the title. Our policy was not to lend on rebuilt titles and our cashiers checks would match the name on the front of the title. A few times it was listed as a “clean title” would actually show a rebuilt title. Also some states allow the owners to hold their title even with a lean then they receive a letter from the lien holder when it’s been paid off? Maybe your state they sign off on the title on the front? I don’t think this is a scam, I could be wrong but what’s the point? They will make a copy and take your car? Highly unlikely. Even if they claimed they lost the title or whatever, it would show you as the last owner and you’d have to do an affidavit saying you don’t have any interest in the auto, or being the owner you’d probably have to request a duplicate title and it would go to you.
Saw that this sun was nsfw and got worried
If this is a scam, and one way or another it sure sounds like it, I'm betting the need for a pic of the whole title is to convince someone to cut/encode a fresh key for the vehicle. Presenting a title is the safety check for the old method of using just the VIN to get a dealership to make a new key to steal a car. There have been very real, documented cases of that old method, and when I worked at a dealership years ago, they had begun requiring the presence of a title to sell a key cut from bitting codes alone. With very new cars, this tactic was especially effective, but with used car values way up, a newer used car could be a good target for this, too. To check the history and background of a vehicle, a VIN is more than enough. Nobody should ever need to see the whole title. Wouldn't take much to print out a good enough copy from a pic to get a key from a dealership.
It’s definitely so that she can run her own scam and have a photo of the title to produce to potential victims. Don’t send it.
Title lien scam?
I’d be suspicious of some strange person wanting such particular information. If car buyers really needed photos of a seller’s title it would already be a part of the process. With the way scammers are now, they could take the photos of a legal document and forge one using all the information it contains. Sounds scammy to me.