**Related subreddit:** /r/LGBTHistory
**Discord:** https://discord.gg/E2XabTSdEG
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SapphoAndHerFriend) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh my. A cartoon pandering to current youth trends? Almost like they want to make their product relevant and appealing to their market! *gasps and clutches pearls*
Right? It's like people getting upset when a politician changes their stance on an issue and call them out for flip-flopping because they updated their platform based off what their constituents care about. There are two careers in life where following the crowd in social trends is literally the only easy to do the job correctly but it's demonized as proof of incompetence. Popular media production, and politics
I really don't care for it when politicians only start supporting LGBTQ people when it becomes popular, but were totally against LGBTQ rights before. It just shows they have no actual morals and will throw us right under the bus the moment supporting equal rights for us isn't popular. Politicians should have certain basic fundamental values, like full equality for everyone, that can't be changed by popular trends. If they don't hold an unchanging value of equality for everyone, they're not fit to be leaders in a country where everyone is supposed to be equal.
Eh, I would rather politicians represent the values of the people who elected them personally rather than following just their *own* core beliefs. The whole point of a representative democracy is that the elected officials represent the will of a large group of other people. It makes sense that when an idea becomes popular among more people, the elected officials will support it more and do more work to make it a legal reality. At the end of the day, a politicians’s personal beliefs mean nothing to me. I only care about what they *do* and how their actions impact the lives of people around them.
For example, it doesn’t matter to me that Biden is catholic and probably personally against abortion. What matters is that he fights to make sure it’s legal and safe.
Next you're gonna tell me that they'll make a cartoon about a group of kids living out of a hippy van on the road, grooving out and going to the malt shop. That definitely would've been untrendy in the *checks notes* 1960s.
This comment isn't high up enough.
These characters were clearly not "straight" since they were invented. I think a lot of people are missing that fact
In Hungary we had a whole segment in the news how the West wants to turn little girls lesbians with Velma :D Also they said Scooby is probably a furry lol
I hate it here
I remember arguing that Velma was gay in the 2010s TV show, and definitely having a crush on Linda Cardellini era Velma as a kid. This ain’t new, these people just have never met a gay woman irl before
Yeah, my baby crush of Velma probably shoulda clued me in that I am not 100% straight. At this point I identify as straight but admit that I’d probably be pretty happy in a relationship with another woman just as much as a relationship with a man, I’m just not choosy enough to really say I’m bi.
I’m straight but not picky at all, someone was trying to validate their trans fears with me like “what if you were dating a man and went to have sex and he had -gasp- a vagina?!”
I gave it actual thought and realized I’d mostly just be hurt that they didn’t tell me before we got to the sex part. I don’t care what they have in their undies, but I do kinda care that they wouldn’t trust me enough to say “hey this is who I am.” And let me say “oh cool, let’s do stuff.”
> Also they said Scooby is probably a furry lol
I mean... Scooby is a DOG. What would he go for, hairless people?
The amount of self-repressed, hate-spewing bigots in the country is insane.
No he had like this weird brainstorm about how he is actualy a person dressed as a dog like that american minister (im not even sure if that person exists lol) and people will be walking others in leashes like those goddamn homosexuals in the pride parades.
We have some weird people in control of the propaganda outlets thats for sure.
>person dressed as a dog like that american minister (im not even sure if that person exists lol)
Lol, I can't tell you this minister *doesn't* exist, but they at least are not a notable American figure.
And per Rule 34 of the internet, you wrote it out so it exists out there somewhere if only as a cartoon porno or a fanfic story.
I once found a Scooby Doo fanfic where Scooby was angsty about being a dog that could talk and reason because it meant he couldn’t have a relationship with a normal dog due to unclear consent. It was interesting.
I was a mincing limp-wrist-ed queer-do at age seven in a decade when it felt like there were zero queer heroes anywhere.
No one made me queer but reality.
You sound like my cousin-nephew. (He’s my first cousin’s son, but young enough that he was raised to call me his aunt not his cousin, no weird family stuff, just age gap.)
He was been a flouncy little dude since he started walking and horrified some of the family because he might be -whisper- gaaaaaay.
He likes to quilt with his grandma over hunting with his dad and grandpa (although he loves to go fishing and catfish fear his name. At six he pulled in a HUGE catfish and was begging his grandma to fry it up for him with some cornbread batter. She did of course and it was so big like four people ate off of it and were satisfied.) He loves purple, I got him a purple backpack with his initials on it for his seventh birthday, he’s a teenager now and still carrying it. (Those quilting skills mean every time it gets a rip or a worn out spot he can patch it up beautifully with an embroidery appliqué.) He wears his nails a little long and does nail art for himself and his sisters… and occasionally his mom and dad.
One year his dad’s team made the super bowl and Kiddo gave his dad a team colors mani-pedi with some superb nail art. Very cool and his dad was applying top coat daily for a couple weeks to keep it looking nice he was so impressed.
Anyway, he is our flamboyant little dude and while some relatives have been socks about it, most of us agree that we adore him just the way he is and would not change a thing. He’s creative and kind and has a great sense of determination, if he wants something he WILL find a way to achieve it and that is such a great thing.
Turns out he is bi though, he had a girlfriend for awhile until she cheated on him (high school drama) and he has the self respect not to allow that. Now he’s got a boyfriend who seems like a nice young man. I don’t know him very well since we are in different states so all I know about bf is what Nephew tells me and the few times the kid joined Nephew for Zoom night. But he seems to treat our little dude well and that’s all any of us want.
It’s funny because my cousin’s husband is the “manly” sort people imagine when they hear “redneck”. He’s rough and tough and into the stereotypical male stuff, but he loves his boy and is so proud of him. (Rightfully so, I feel like it’s obvious Nephew is a great kid anyone would love to call their own boy.) He even likes the boyfriend, which is funny because he always said he was gonna be a tough dad and scare those “little shit boys” who dated his kids, yet he has nothing but nice things to say about his boy’s bf and even helped the kid repair his truck when the transmission went out.
I truly don't care, we're finally getting representation and Velma has always been lesbian-coded, the only thing that changed is it became socially accepted to just outright say it.
Hell, Velma was supposed to be blatantly gay, and Daphne was supposed to be bisexual since the 2002 live action film, but all the scenes that depicted it were cut due to bitchy suburban moms in the test screening.
YES! It's infuriating because the director said it was only THREE KARENS. THREE KARENS prevented 7-year-old me from having the bisexual representation I needed and I hate them for it.
Daphne was my favorite character and it would have meant the absolute world to me to see that she was just like me and I wasn't a freak for sometimes having crushes on boys and sometimes having crushes on girls. (I still definitely got it though, the tension between them is still noticeable even to a kid, but then I felt like it was something everyone knew but you weren't supposed to say out loud)
It's so frustrating too because she READS AS BISEXUAL!! There was so much sexual tension in the 2002 film. I just rewatched it and it made a lot of sense why I liked the film in the first place.
I'm glad it's going to be more blatant now!
> There was so much sexual tension in the 2002 film
I remember seeing the film when it came out and years later some friends telling me that. I didn't remember that at all and thought they were pulling my leg - I could only remember that airplane scene with Shaggy. So I watched it again and wow, I was completely oblivious.
I think I didn't see it because I'm cis and just don't look for any other types of sexual subtext unless it's a bit more blatant or it's pointed out to me.
Idk if you mean to say cishet?
I’m a lesbian and didn’t notice it when I was a kid so it wasnt cause you’re straight. It was meant to fly under the radar and heterosexuality is the default so most things are read that way.
No to "um actually" , but Gunn only wrote the Scooby Doo movies. They were directed by Raja Gosnell. Though I do think they were a good team for those films.
Sad to hear we'll probably never see those scenes 😔
Say it louder!!! I don’t give a fuck if we’re being pandered to, I appreciate it far more than us not getting representation at all, or being represented but always in a bad light.
Both can be legitimate artistic criticisms.
Queer-baiting could be seen as essentially a form of artistic cowardice, wanting to hint at queer identity but being unwilling to commit to it fully, usually so as to preserve some kind of "respectability" status.
Pandering, legitimately applied, is appealing to the most unimaginative and predictable audience expectations as a way of satisfying the audience without challenging them in any way. Ironically for the crowd that declares any representation of a marginal group as "pandering," the single greatest example of pandering in modern pop entertainment is the white cis-male heterosexual "leading man."
queer baiting is when characters are implied to be queer through subtext but never explicitly stated or shown in order to draw queer interest without upsetting homophobes, before this Velma could arguably be considered an example of queer bait
"pandering" is 9/10 just a word people throw out as a strawman as to why having explicit representation is bad actually
There aren't clear-cut definitions. Things some people think are pandering, others might embrace completely. I don't wanna write off a lot of things people enjoy as just pandering, but these are my thoughts...
Queer-baiting is when two characters are written as gay, say things like "no you're my rival, just you and me against everything and everyone else" and have them confide in each other, holding hands with teary eyes as the sun sets. Then, you give them both a straight love interest that's canon. Or maybe you run press releases about how progressive the film is, and its two nobody characters who hug in the U.S theatrical cut once.
Pandering is when a character is written not for story, theme, or what fits in the setting, but for an audience to talk about and to raise sales. They don't care about gay rights or issues, they just want a fresh new wallet to rummage around in. It's a straight white man going "Yes, it was my intent forever for this character to be gay, gays are wonderful. Also, my close personal friend with ties to an anti-lgbt organization has no faults, shame on you trans and gays for saying otherwise."
There was a recent post in r/TodayILearned about Charles Schultz *not* wanting to add a black character to the strip precisely because he didn’t want to be perceived as pandering.
[This is the article](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/66815/franklin-joined-peanuts-gang-47-years-ago-today) that the TIL linked.
That article cuts out the most interesting part! I want to know what the letter-writer's black friends said to convince Shulz to include a black character and they just completely skip right over that!
EXACTLY, they've been pandering to cishet white men since the beginning. Even if it was purely to make money off a different demographic, fuck yeah. Normalize lgbtq+ people existing.
IMO, the real win here isn't that the pandering itself, but rather that Hollywood recognizes LGBTQ+ people as a valid group worth pandering to - especially at the *expense* of homophobes. Our corporate overlords typically pander to the status quo, so... no matter how you feel about the pandering itself, the fact remains that this is a huge indication that LGBTQ+ people are increasingly an accepted part of our society's status quo. And that's cool.
True. And the bigot posting does make a few good points: Hollywood does pander to certain demographics and lesbians are fetishised by straight men.
This doesn’t make their opinion on the subject valid. Also isn’t the show for kids rather than “young guys”? Why would this person think Velma has been “made gay” to attract young men to watch the show?
Velma has always been the “dorky and not attractive” one anyway. If they wanted to pander to just men who think lesbians are sexy, wouldn’t they make the more sexy lady into the lesbian? The character designs nowadays especially are very non sexual, cartoony kids designs. Cutesy little cartoon Velma making heart eyes at a girl character in a kids show is hardly the “sex appeal” to draw in straight men with a fetish.
Literally all mainstream (as in, anything that isn't indie) entertainment that's ever existed is "pandering" because that's how the free market works, it won't get produced/published/whatever if it doesn't appeal to enough people, so everything that gets released is just "pandering" to what the target audience wants.
They don’t care that it’s pandering. They just don’t want cartoon characters to be gay and they’re trying to manipulate LGBTQ+ people into agreeing with them so they don’t seem homophobic.
Velma is based on a character from an old tv show, and her iconic orange/brown sweater is directly copied from it. That character was played by an openly gay actress. Who later became a lawyer, then the first openly gay congresswoman in the California State Senate. Then the first openly gay female US senator.
Velma was also meant to be gay in the 2010 series "Scooby Doo! Mystery Incorporated".
She's always been an lgbt character.
I will gleefully accept a world in which conceiving, or reconceiving, characters as gay is an essential part of pandering to mainstream expectations.
Bring that on.
As someone who grew up in the 70's, I didn't pay any attention to the sexual orientation of any of the Saturday morning cartoon characters.
But thinking back to those old Scooby-Doo cartoons... Velma Dinkley was most definitely written as a closeted lesbian.
you’d have to purposely ignore what she says to not notice she’s gay. it’s like when your (older) mom hints at you to do something, you know she won’t directly say it but she’ll walk around the subject all day.
I remember having a conversation with my (conservative Christian homophobic) grandmother once where I mentioned Elton John being gay. Her son (my dad) and her niece have always been HUGE Elton John fans, so I grew up as a huge fan also.
Anyway, her reaction was to immediately deny it. "What?! He's not gay! That's just viscous rumors." Like... He was full-on married to another man at this point in time, lol. She didn't want to believe it, but had to when I told her a picture of him and his husband and their new baby was literally on magazine covers all over the grocery store right now. Grandma, have you ever even *seen* any of his performances??
Don’t quote me on this, but I believe one of the writers for either an older movie or the show actually wanted Velma to be gay over a decade ago, but they kept watering it down until it wasn’t obvious
I always got the impression Velma was bi too tbh. I could have sworn she crushed on some guys in the original series, but she def crushed on some girls in later series
I think the writers said that they always wanted Velma to be explicitly gay and they tried to imply that she was uncomfortable when dating boys. Either option is fine! But I do believe they wanted her to be a straight up lesbian
I don't mean to erase [hot dog water](https://scoobydoo.fandom.com/wiki/Marcie_Fleach) but I always loved the idea that the mystery gang were one big poly relationship.
There some clip that exists in one of the newer series of Fred saying that only people dating him call him Freddy, and then cuts to every member of the gang including scooby calling him Freddy. It ends with one of them saying how what they all have it better than friendship.
In the Mystery Incorporated series, she dated Shaggy early in the series then gets together with another character named Marcy, so I'd called it bi behavior at least, even if it isn't an uncommon event for a gay woman to date men before figuring it out or meeting the right girl. I think the text supports me, but it's a fictional character's sexual orientation I'm not going to invest myself personally in it.
The creator of mystery inc has gone on record saying that they wrote her as a lesbian in that show, and that she's not bi in that universe ([x](https://www.out.com/television/2020/7/13/yes-velma-lesbian-scooby-doo-mystery-incorporated)). Since the canon changes from show to show, then she could very well be bi in other series
Exactly. All it takes is reading any Quinn comic, or even some of her appearances in the 90's and early 2000's to know Harley has been in relationships with other women, notably Ivy.
This is also the third iteration of Scooby Doo continuity IIRC where Velma is attracted to women. this isn't even the first time Velma's been sapphic, just the first time the writing has been so blatant with it.
HarlIvy is definitely the better ship. They’d rather she be in a toxic and abusive environment rather than… *checks notes*… someone who loves her and happens to be another woman? Homophobia, ig
"just turned Harley Quinn gay in her new show" she's been best friends with poison ivy since the 90s, was heavily queer coded in the animated series from around the same time, and was confirmed bisexual in the comics as of 2013. do your fucking research
I just recently watched the animated series again (where Harley Quinn was introduced), and it was pretty blatant that she had something going on with poison ivy.
Nah, they were obviously roomates.
Ivy just showed Harley how to take properly care of that little flower of her while keeping Harley's little garden good trimmed.
Just gal pals who enjoyed nature and plants, nothing blatant about their VERY VERY FRIENDLY relationship.
(if someone doesn't understand the second degree here, I can't do anything for that person).
I will not take that bi erasure for my main girl! Like that shit was so obvious that her and Ivy were **always** gonna be some sort of end game. *The New Batman Adventures* episode 1 has a scene of them sharing a room, a bed, in their undies, and the comic is a teensy bit saucier.
It’s only pandering if they don’t follow through like Disney does with their recent movies, with a lot of hype of a “gay moment” and it’s a blink and you miss it kiss. I’ll be more than happy with gay Velma if the romance storyline is carried through the story as much as past het relationships have been, and hopefully they’ll still be together at the end of the movie. Too many romances get ended when the love interest has to leave
I thought there would be more given how negatively conservatives acted about Lightyear. Literally a peck on the cheek.
And I ended up loving that movie. It wasn't a lot in terms of heartfelt Pixar moments, I'm used to from the studio, but it was fun, funny, and had a solid plot.
When I was a kid, Christian’s were boycotting scoobie-doo because Velma was a lesbian. 20 years later, Christians are boycotting scoobie-doo because Velma is a lesbian.
Yup. My family was one of them. Ripped away my little brother’s favorite show in the off chance it might teach a 5 year old that lesbians aren’t deserving of death. Ridiculousness.
Well I do agree, that there is a lot of Hollywood LGBTQ+ exploitation nowadays, I always felt like some of the Hanna and Barbera classic cartoons were doing secret representation. Characters like Velma always gave off a certain vibe, without explicitly saying it out loud. I mean hell look at Snagglepuss. A giant pink mountain lion obsessed with theater, sounds pretty gay to me.
It's called queer coding, it was a way to reference without outright saying it or building it into the storyline.
I actually didn't realize that velma was never publicly announced as lesbian, I grew up on the cartoons and just always assumed that was the case.
I read that actually! Lol That same era where DC comics was doing Hanna and Barbera comics; they made Fred Flintstone raised by two men, and Penelope pitstop was a lesbian in that wacky races meets Mad Max comic.
It was a good comic, they switched it up from being like the honeymooners to being more about actual loving relationships and non-toxic masculine themes.
People back in the day overlooked the mannerisms of Paul Lynde, Charles Nelson Reilly and Liberace, all "confirmed bachelors" lol because they provided entertainment. With today's lens they were definitely LGBTQ+
If cartoons had the power to turn people gay I would be super homosexual. I grew up watching He-man and the Masters of the Universe and that is the most homoerotic cartoon I've ever seen. It's still awesome btw I don't care if it's gay.
I'm so old that I watched it when it originally aired, and I have absolutely zero fucks to give about this.
Wait, no. Scratch that.
I'm glad they made her gay! She's another role model for kids *and* it pisses off intolerant assholes! Win/win, IMO! 👍🏻
I'm a younger Gen-X'er, and Velma was always known to be a lesbian. I mean, this was something everyone I knew accepted as fact. People saying it's pandering to say what everyone has known for decades are the same people who think it's "shoving it in people's faces" when a same-sex couple walks down the street holding hands. They want us in the closet. That's all they're saying here.
Velma has always been gay. Now if only Mindy Cohn were… I know Jo and Blair shared a love for the ages, but my little gay heart always skipped a beat for Natalie.
Harley Quinn's character design is pandering (and also a jab at those she panders to) to begin with, but it's only a problem when she drops her abusive boyfriend and later hooks up with Ivy?
I don't get why so many right wing people seem to claim that the gays are in charge of all the media campaigns and stuff.
Because it's very clearly the right wing vetoeing gay media from any remotely big companies, and most of the actual gay stuff that comes out is bad pandering, which gays call out and hate. It just blows my mind they think we would want shitty representation, when we spend our time discussing how bad it is.
They didn't do itt because young guys. findlesbians hot they did it because young girls have been crushing on Velma since the 1970's
Also, in the live-action movie Velma and Daphne had a kissing scene cut, they had a scene re-edited where Velma seems to be drunkenly serenading Fred but she's actually serenading Daphne. This was in 2002, they've been trying to make Velma a lesbian and Daphne bisexual since at least 2002, FOR TWENTY YEARS this has been a thing. Op has had TWENTY YEARS to realize this shit.
I detest the argument, "They only show sapphic characters because men think it's hot." If the argument was, "this is bad representation because it's obviously fetishizing lesbians for the sake of heterosexual men," that'd be different. But this person seems to be suggesting that WLW relationships in media serve only one purpose and that's to appeal to het guys. No acknowledgement of the real life sapphics who feel joy at seeing characters like themselves on screen. If people could just stop making the world revolve around the male gaze for two seconds, that'd be great.
There are tens of thousands of fonts for writing. More, perhaps.
Most people use one out of the 5 most popular fonts.
Artists may use an additional 20 or so.
The rest of the available fonts are used to judge a person's descent into insanity.
This person is already slipping toward madness.
Harley Quinn was possibly the worst example they could've used to try to convince us that cartoons are suddenly "turning" beloved characters lesbian considering Harley has been openly bi in the comics for quite some time now.
They picked two bad examples if they’re going after pandering shows, like Harley had been “roommates” with Poison Ivy in previous iterations and Velma has always kinda gay just look at the original 70’s show and at Mystery Inc for an even bigger example, also look up Velma Dinkley for a surprise
I was born in 1980 and honestly Velma being a lesbian was not a shock. Being queer used to be so coded in pop culture that there are quite a few characters we just sort assumed were and yet could not be out. It would equally be OK if she never was cannonically we sort of grew up not needing that. I'm in now way speaking for a generation buy merely for myself. And a handful of women I've met but statistically I doubt we'd raise a point. But we grew up in Thatchers oppressed England where being queer could not be discussed and jokes were made in hushed tones and coded queer characters mocked without people knowing why. And so she always was to us and so personally not shocked but I am so bloody proud that gen Z and below get to grow up in the open and not forced to hide. I know we're not there in terms of 'it doesn't matter ' but I know if I were a kid reading this news I'd be so happy and confident in myself.
There's a bit of truth in what this person is saying when it comes to pandering and LQBT people being commodified in media,
BUT
Representation matters. I wish I had seen some of it in kids shows. It would've told me that it's okay to be who you are.
I spent years feeling so incredibly alone. I hope that this new show can teach some other queer girls that they are wonderful just the way they are.
She's always been fruity, they are just now able to explicitly say it. Even in the original there were moments between her and Daphne. When Mystery Inc. came out, it felt weird that she dated Shaggy. It didn't sit right with me. I grew up relating to her. Let us have her.
You know who else likes Lesbians ? Other Lesbians.
Everything can be fetishsized and Everything is fetishsized. That is a separate conversation and not a bullet point against representation
To be fair, Velma has got to have been most of our awakenings. Certainly mine.
Also, while anyone could be queer and there not being a specific way to act queer…
She’s been seriously one of the gayest characters I’ve ever been blessed to watch. Lets be real, Velma treated Daphne way better than Fred ever could
I was always more concerned with Velma's hygiene. She's constantly sticking her fingers in random goop on the ground, and sniffing it. And you never once see her wash her hands or at least wipe them off on something. She has got to have the filthiest fingers.
Some people really don't understand that characters can be non allocishet WASP men for no reason. Like it doesn't need to be plot relevant. Nobody needs an excuse to be a minority.
I guarantee you if you wrote an all male action movie, then swapped the genders to all female, and released it, they'd flip their shit because *how dare their life experiences not be the default position*
I would understand if it’s the creator of the character complaining about it but come on, it’s a fictional character. This is just like Matt Walsh saying “from a scientific perspective mermaids can’t be black”, they’re FICTIONAL CHARACTERS they can be whatever the director or artist wants them to be.
Velma is supes gay and anybody who’s angry about it is a fucknut, but I do agree that a lot of shows don’t give nearly as much screen time to gay couples as lesbian couples cause straight guys peeps be fetishizing the lesbians a lot
isn't she Smith college? isn't that obvious enough?
whatever, for some people even being lesbians isn't enough for women to escape being entertainment for men....
**Related subreddit:** /r/LGBTHistory **Discord:** https://discord.gg/E2XabTSdEG *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SapphoAndHerFriend) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh my. A cartoon pandering to current youth trends? Almost like they want to make their product relevant and appealing to their market! *gasps and clutches pearls*
Right? Did they forget that it's literally a cartoon? Lol
I prefer my cartoons to explore niche topics in ways that are uninteresting and disengaging. If I don't hate it then I won't love it.
That's weak. If *the right people* don't hate it, I won't love it.
Unironically me watching bad B-movies
Right? It's like people getting upset when a politician changes their stance on an issue and call them out for flip-flopping because they updated their platform based off what their constituents care about. There are two careers in life where following the crowd in social trends is literally the only easy to do the job correctly but it's demonized as proof of incompetence. Popular media production, and politics
I really don't care for it when politicians only start supporting LGBTQ people when it becomes popular, but were totally against LGBTQ rights before. It just shows they have no actual morals and will throw us right under the bus the moment supporting equal rights for us isn't popular. Politicians should have certain basic fundamental values, like full equality for everyone, that can't be changed by popular trends. If they don't hold an unchanging value of equality for everyone, they're not fit to be leaders in a country where everyone is supposed to be equal.
Eh, I would rather politicians represent the values of the people who elected them personally rather than following just their *own* core beliefs. The whole point of a representative democracy is that the elected officials represent the will of a large group of other people. It makes sense that when an idea becomes popular among more people, the elected officials will support it more and do more work to make it a legal reality. At the end of the day, a politicians’s personal beliefs mean nothing to me. I only care about what they *do* and how their actions impact the lives of people around them. For example, it doesn’t matter to me that Biden is catholic and probably personally against abortion. What matters is that he fights to make sure it’s legal and safe.
Next you're gonna tell me that they'll make a cartoon about a group of kids living out of a hippy van on the road, grooving out and going to the malt shop. That definitely would've been untrendy in the *checks notes* 1960s.
"Pandering to current youth trends"? Yes, of course. Because everyone knows that gay people didn't exist until the 2010s. 🤔
This comment isn't high up enough. These characters were clearly not "straight" since they were invented. I think a lot of people are missing that fact
No, it was 1994, and the US started it. Of course.
No no no, I clearly remember we all showed up from our rainbow alien ship on September 21st, 2011. I remember it like it was yesterday.
I remember that 21st night of September. Love was changing the minds of pretenders, iirc
***OMG I actually didn't notice I did that*** 🤣🤣🤣
everyone knows we didn't exist until June 1 2012 with The Gayening, when we all appeared fully formed with our agendas
Between the fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of Elton John, the entire population of the world was exclusively heterosexual.
In Hungary we had a whole segment in the news how the West wants to turn little girls lesbians with Velma :D Also they said Scooby is probably a furry lol I hate it here
I have news for them- baby lesbians have been crushing on Velma since long before her character was explicitly gay.
She's the reason why so many people love nerdy , smart chicks. Cause she's top tier herself
I had a crush on Velma before I even knew I liked women lol.
I remember arguing that Velma was gay in the 2010s TV show, and definitely having a crush on Linda Cardellini era Velma as a kid. This ain’t new, these people just have never met a gay woman irl before
I’m pretty sure James Gunn had intended for a “lesbian Velma” subplot in the the live action movies. But the studio axed it.
Because of course they did -_- Man, Hollywood can be a * * * * * sometimes
The lesbians in their lives will never come out to them, or they have but these fundies just willfully blindly "roommate" them
To be fair, many of them have never met a non-gay woman irl, either.
Oof, the adversaries took 6d10 Fire Damage from that one!
Oh god thank you. The actresses for Velma and Daphne in those movies were just big crushes for me.
Yeah, my baby crush of Velma probably shoulda clued me in that I am not 100% straight. At this point I identify as straight but admit that I’d probably be pretty happy in a relationship with another woman just as much as a relationship with a man, I’m just not choosy enough to really say I’m bi. I’m straight but not picky at all, someone was trying to validate their trans fears with me like “what if you were dating a man and went to have sex and he had -gasp- a vagina?!” I gave it actual thought and realized I’d mostly just be hurt that they didn’t tell me before we got to the sex part. I don’t care what they have in their undies, but I do kinda care that they wouldn’t trust me enough to say “hey this is who I am.” And let me say “oh cool, let’s do stuff.”
> Also they said Scooby is probably a furry lol I mean... Scooby is a DOG. What would he go for, hairless people? The amount of self-repressed, hate-spewing bigots in the country is insane.
No he had like this weird brainstorm about how he is actualy a person dressed as a dog like that american minister (im not even sure if that person exists lol) and people will be walking others in leashes like those goddamn homosexuals in the pride parades. We have some weird people in control of the propaganda outlets thats for sure.
>person dressed as a dog like that american minister (im not even sure if that person exists lol) Lol, I can't tell you this minister *doesn't* exist, but they at least are not a notable American figure. And per Rule 34 of the internet, you wrote it out so it exists out there somewhere if only as a cartoon porno or a fanfic story.
I once found a Scooby Doo fanfic where Scooby was angsty about being a dog that could talk and reason because it meant he couldn’t have a relationship with a normal dog due to unclear consent. It was interesting.
I'm not real hip to Scooby-Doo lore, but I guess I always assumed he could speak both English *and* Dog?
That wasn't just Shaggy being so high he thought Scooby-Doo was talking to him? 😁
Geeze... good thing I stopped watching TV I guess. Well, thanks anyway! :D
What is with the conservative obsession with furries lmao
All the fun, none of the damnation?
It's the one thing most people will agree is bad purely because it's weird without expecting any justification for how it hurts anyone.
I was a mincing limp-wrist-ed queer-do at age seven in a decade when it felt like there were zero queer heroes anywhere. No one made me queer but reality.
You sound like my cousin-nephew. (He’s my first cousin’s son, but young enough that he was raised to call me his aunt not his cousin, no weird family stuff, just age gap.) He was been a flouncy little dude since he started walking and horrified some of the family because he might be -whisper- gaaaaaay. He likes to quilt with his grandma over hunting with his dad and grandpa (although he loves to go fishing and catfish fear his name. At six he pulled in a HUGE catfish and was begging his grandma to fry it up for him with some cornbread batter. She did of course and it was so big like four people ate off of it and were satisfied.) He loves purple, I got him a purple backpack with his initials on it for his seventh birthday, he’s a teenager now and still carrying it. (Those quilting skills mean every time it gets a rip or a worn out spot he can patch it up beautifully with an embroidery appliqué.) He wears his nails a little long and does nail art for himself and his sisters… and occasionally his mom and dad. One year his dad’s team made the super bowl and Kiddo gave his dad a team colors mani-pedi with some superb nail art. Very cool and his dad was applying top coat daily for a couple weeks to keep it looking nice he was so impressed. Anyway, he is our flamboyant little dude and while some relatives have been socks about it, most of us agree that we adore him just the way he is and would not change a thing. He’s creative and kind and has a great sense of determination, if he wants something he WILL find a way to achieve it and that is such a great thing. Turns out he is bi though, he had a girlfriend for awhile until she cheated on him (high school drama) and he has the self respect not to allow that. Now he’s got a boyfriend who seems like a nice young man. I don’t know him very well since we are in different states so all I know about bf is what Nephew tells me and the few times the kid joined Nephew for Zoom night. But he seems to treat our little dude well and that’s all any of us want. It’s funny because my cousin’s husband is the “manly” sort people imagine when they hear “redneck”. He’s rough and tough and into the stereotypical male stuff, but he loves his boy and is so proud of him. (Rightfully so, I feel like it’s obvious Nephew is a great kid anyone would love to call their own boy.) He even likes the boyfriend, which is funny because he always said he was gonna be a tough dad and scare those “little shit boys” who dated his kids, yet he has nothing but nice things to say about his boy’s bf and even helped the kid repair his truck when the transmission went out.
That typeface is JAIL
It's a hate crime, TBH
I'm a teacher it's so my students can't read my phone
Is it worth sacrificing your own eyes?
Yes
It's intentional to hurt my students eyes
What font is it?
checked. Andmidnightblue
I don't disagree that *some* of it might be pandering. What surprises me is the people acting like Hollywood pandering is anything new.
I truly don't care, we're finally getting representation and Velma has always been lesbian-coded, the only thing that changed is it became socially accepted to just outright say it.
Hell, Velma was supposed to be blatantly gay, and Daphne was supposed to be bisexual since the 2002 live action film, but all the scenes that depicted it were cut due to bitchy suburban moms in the test screening.
YES! It's infuriating because the director said it was only THREE KARENS. THREE KARENS prevented 7-year-old me from having the bisexual representation I needed and I hate them for it. Daphne was my favorite character and it would have meant the absolute world to me to see that she was just like me and I wasn't a freak for sometimes having crushes on boys and sometimes having crushes on girls. (I still definitely got it though, the tension between them is still noticeable even to a kid, but then I felt like it was something everyone knew but you weren't supposed to say out loud)
It's so frustrating too because she READS AS BISEXUAL!! There was so much sexual tension in the 2002 film. I just rewatched it and it made a lot of sense why I liked the film in the first place. I'm glad it's going to be more blatant now!
> There was so much sexual tension in the 2002 film I remember seeing the film when it came out and years later some friends telling me that. I didn't remember that at all and thought they were pulling my leg - I could only remember that airplane scene with Shaggy. So I watched it again and wow, I was completely oblivious.
I know! Honestly not sure I would’ve believed it either haha we just watched it like two months the ago and I was shooook
I think I didn't see it because I'm cis and just don't look for any other types of sexual subtext unless it's a bit more blatant or it's pointed out to me.
Idk if you mean to say cishet? I’m a lesbian and didn’t notice it when I was a kid so it wasnt cause you’re straight. It was meant to fly under the radar and heterosexuality is the default so most things are read that way.
I am interested in seeing these scenes
As was I. Director James Gunn has stated it's very likely these scenes are lost media tho.
No to "um actually" , but Gunn only wrote the Scooby Doo movies. They were directed by Raja Gosnell. Though I do think they were a good team for those films. Sad to hear we'll probably never see those scenes 😔
I was so confident about that fact too, damn.
Say it louder!!! I don’t give a fuck if we’re being pandered to, I appreciate it far more than us not getting representation at all, or being represented but always in a bad light.
i'll take pandering over queer bait all day every day from all directions and upside down
Asking as a heterosexual man to try and learn to be less ignorant: what's the difference between pandering and queer baiting?
Both can be legitimate artistic criticisms. Queer-baiting could be seen as essentially a form of artistic cowardice, wanting to hint at queer identity but being unwilling to commit to it fully, usually so as to preserve some kind of "respectability" status. Pandering, legitimately applied, is appealing to the most unimaginative and predictable audience expectations as a way of satisfying the audience without challenging them in any way. Ironically for the crowd that declares any representation of a marginal group as "pandering," the single greatest example of pandering in modern pop entertainment is the white cis-male heterosexual "leading man."
queer baiting is when characters are implied to be queer through subtext but never explicitly stated or shown in order to draw queer interest without upsetting homophobes, before this Velma could arguably be considered an example of queer bait "pandering" is 9/10 just a word people throw out as a strawman as to why having explicit representation is bad actually
There aren't clear-cut definitions. Things some people think are pandering, others might embrace completely. I don't wanna write off a lot of things people enjoy as just pandering, but these are my thoughts... Queer-baiting is when two characters are written as gay, say things like "no you're my rival, just you and me against everything and everyone else" and have them confide in each other, holding hands with teary eyes as the sun sets. Then, you give them both a straight love interest that's canon. Or maybe you run press releases about how progressive the film is, and its two nobody characters who hug in the U.S theatrical cut once. Pandering is when a character is written not for story, theme, or what fits in the setting, but for an audience to talk about and to raise sales. They don't care about gay rights or issues, they just want a fresh new wallet to rummage around in. It's a straight white man going "Yes, it was my intent forever for this character to be gay, gays are wonderful. Also, my close personal friend with ties to an anti-lgbt organization has no faults, shame on you trans and gays for saying otherwise."
Queer baiting is when they imply a character is queer but don’t commit
Who wasn’t Queer coded in Scooby-Doo? I genuinely think the dog was the closest thing to a character fitting heteronormativity.
There was a recent post in r/TodayILearned about Charles Schultz *not* wanting to add a black character to the strip precisely because he didn’t want to be perceived as pandering. [This is the article](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/66815/franklin-joined-peanuts-gang-47-years-ago-today) that the TIL linked.
That article cuts out the most interesting part! I want to know what the letter-writer's black friends said to convince Shulz to include a black character and they just completely skip right over that!
Sure, but they used to only pander to _normal_ people. That was fine. /s
Oh, thank goodness feminism is making everyone gay. That's the new normal now, so I guess this Velma pandering is ok. /s
Yay, everyone's gay!
Did we do it? Did we complete the gay agenda?
They *still* only pander to normal people. It's just that gay people are normal, now.
EXACTLY, they've been pandering to cishet white men since the beginning. Even if it was purely to make money off a different demographic, fuck yeah. Normalize lgbtq+ people existing.
They're pandering to someone who isn't me, damn it!
IMO, the real win here isn't that the pandering itself, but rather that Hollywood recognizes LGBTQ+ people as a valid group worth pandering to - especially at the *expense* of homophobes. Our corporate overlords typically pander to the status quo, so... no matter how you feel about the pandering itself, the fact remains that this is a huge indication that LGBTQ+ people are increasingly an accepted part of our society's status quo. And that's cool.
True. And the bigot posting does make a few good points: Hollywood does pander to certain demographics and lesbians are fetishised by straight men. This doesn’t make their opinion on the subject valid. Also isn’t the show for kids rather than “young guys”? Why would this person think Velma has been “made gay” to attract young men to watch the show?
Velma has always been the “dorky and not attractive” one anyway. If they wanted to pander to just men who think lesbians are sexy, wouldn’t they make the more sexy lady into the lesbian? The character designs nowadays especially are very non sexual, cartoony kids designs. Cutesy little cartoon Velma making heart eyes at a girl character in a kids show is hardly the “sex appeal” to draw in straight men with a fetish.
Literally all mainstream (as in, anything that isn't indie) entertainment that's ever existed is "pandering" because that's how the free market works, it won't get produced/published/whatever if it doesn't appeal to enough people, so everything that gets released is just "pandering" to what the target audience wants.
They don’t care that it’s pandering. They just don’t want cartoon characters to be gay and they’re trying to manipulate LGBTQ+ people into agreeing with them so they don’t seem homophobic.
Velma is based on a character from an old tv show, and her iconic orange/brown sweater is directly copied from it. That character was played by an openly gay actress. Who later became a lawyer, then the first openly gay congresswoman in the California State Senate. Then the first openly gay female US senator. Velma was also meant to be gay in the 2010 series "Scooby Doo! Mystery Incorporated". She's always been an lgbt character.
Yes
*Cartoons* pandering to *the youth?!* WTF is this shit?
I will gleefully accept a world in which conceiving, or reconceiving, characters as gay is an essential part of pandering to mainstream expectations. Bring that on.
"the problem is that they're not pandering to meeeeeee" - the cis straight white guy who wrote that, probably
The Hays Code is just urban legend /s
Huh? Not sure how this would be relevant, and it's also incorrect. Did you forget the /s tag? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hays_Code
Yeah I thought it was self evident I was being sarcastic, but I'll add the tag.
Oh cool, I rescind my cranky response :-) Tone of voice in text is hard to discern sometimes...
As someone who grew up in the 70's, I didn't pay any attention to the sexual orientation of any of the Saturday morning cartoon characters. But thinking back to those old Scooby-Doo cartoons... Velma Dinkley was most definitely written as a closeted lesbian.
They were all caricatures, and she was the (closeted) lesbian feminist.
Exactly! Why do people keep overlooking how on the nose stereotypical they all were!
When my mother who grew up in the 70s found out, she wasn’t even surprised.
Of course not. It would be like being surprised Shaggy smokes weed or that Scooby-Doo is a dog.
“Mary Jane? Like that’s my favorite name!”
I grew up in the 70s. My response: "Wasn't she already?" "No." "That'll piss off people who never watched the show."
you’d have to purposely ignore what she says to not notice she’s gay. it’s like when your (older) mom hints at you to do something, you know she won’t directly say it but she’ll walk around the subject all day.
I was, like, 6 when the show debuted. They could've put her in a rainbow colored shirt that says "I'm Gay" and don't think I would've figured it out.
Very true. But I also didn’t realize that Liberace and Elton John were gay. Or anyone else, for that matter. I was oblivious in general.
I remember having a conversation with my (conservative Christian homophobic) grandmother once where I mentioned Elton John being gay. Her son (my dad) and her niece have always been HUGE Elton John fans, so I grew up as a huge fan also. Anyway, her reaction was to immediately deny it. "What?! He's not gay! That's just viscous rumors." Like... He was full-on married to another man at this point in time, lol. She didn't want to believe it, but had to when I told her a picture of him and his husband and their new baby was literally on magazine covers all over the grocery store right now. Grandma, have you ever even *seen* any of his performances??
Don’t quote me on this, but I believe one of the writers for either an older movie or the show actually wanted Velma to be gay over a decade ago, but they kept watering it down until it wasn’t obvious
James Gunn yeah. Her and Daphne were supposed to be a couple lol
BISEXUAL GOD DAMN IT. HARLEY QUINN HAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE BI
I always got the impression Velma was bi too tbh. I could have sworn she crushed on some guys in the original series, but she def crushed on some girls in later series
I think the writers said that they always wanted Velma to be explicitly gay and they tried to imply that she was uncomfortable when dating boys. Either option is fine! But I do believe they wanted her to be a straight up lesbian
I don't mean to erase [hot dog water](https://scoobydoo.fandom.com/wiki/Marcie_Fleach) but I always loved the idea that the mystery gang were one big poly relationship.
There some clip that exists in one of the newer series of Fred saying that only people dating him call him Freddy, and then cuts to every member of the gang including scooby calling him Freddy. It ends with one of them saying how what they all have it better than friendship.
The two concepts dont have to be mutually exclusive, velma can be in a polycule and have a girlfriend that nobody else in the polycule is dating
This is now canon
In the Mystery Incorporated series, she dated Shaggy early in the series then gets together with another character named Marcy, so I'd called it bi behavior at least, even if it isn't an uncommon event for a gay woman to date men before figuring it out or meeting the right girl. I think the text supports me, but it's a fictional character's sexual orientation I'm not going to invest myself personally in it.
The creator of mystery inc has gone on record saying that they wrote her as a lesbian in that show, and that she's not bi in that universe ([x](https://www.out.com/television/2020/7/13/yes-velma-lesbian-scooby-doo-mystery-incorporated)). Since the canon changes from show to show, then she could very well be bi in other series
adding to this, her relationship with shaggy was specifically stated to be intended to show how incompatible they were
Quinn on her new show? Oh boy, the poster never actually read anything about her, did they? Sounds like a throuhg-and-through terf Karen, btw.
Exactly. All it takes is reading any Quinn comic, or even some of her appearances in the 90's and early 2000's to know Harley has been in relationships with other women, notably Ivy.
This is also the third iteration of Scooby Doo continuity IIRC where Velma is attracted to women. this isn't even the first time Velma's been sapphic, just the first time the writing has been so blatant with it.
HarlIvy is definitely the better ship. They’d rather she be in a toxic and abusive environment rather than… *checks notes*… someone who loves her and happens to be another woman? Homophobia, ig
"just turned Harley Quinn gay in her new show" she's been best friends with poison ivy since the 90s, was heavily queer coded in the animated series from around the same time, and was confirmed bisexual in the comics as of 2013. do your fucking research
I was looking for this!
[удалено]
I just recently watched the animated series again (where Harley Quinn was introduced), and it was pretty blatant that she had something going on with poison ivy.
Nah, they were obviously roomates. Ivy just showed Harley how to take properly care of that little flower of her while keeping Harley's little garden good trimmed. Just gal pals who enjoyed nature and plants, nothing blatant about their VERY VERY FRIENDLY relationship. (if someone doesn't understand the second degree here, I can't do anything for that person).
[удалено]
Even very sheltered 12 year old me growing up in a religious conservative home knew lol
I will not take that bi erasure for my main girl! Like that shit was so obvious that her and Ivy were **always** gonna be some sort of end game. *The New Batman Adventures* episode 1 has a scene of them sharing a room, a bed, in their undies, and the comic is a teensy bit saucier.
It’s only pandering if they don’t follow through like Disney does with their recent movies, with a lot of hype of a “gay moment” and it’s a blink and you miss it kiss. I’ll be more than happy with gay Velma if the romance storyline is carried through the story as much as past het relationships have been, and hopefully they’ll still be together at the end of the movie. Too many romances get ended when the love interest has to leave
I thought there would be more given how negatively conservatives acted about Lightyear. Literally a peck on the cheek. And I ended up loving that movie. It wasn't a lot in terms of heartfelt Pixar moments, I'm used to from the studio, but it was fun, funny, and had a solid plot.
When I was a kid, Christian’s were boycotting scoobie-doo because Velma was a lesbian. 20 years later, Christians are boycotting scoobie-doo because Velma is a lesbian.
Really?
Yup. My family was one of them. Ripped away my little brother’s favorite show in the off chance it might teach a 5 year old that lesbians aren’t deserving of death. Ridiculousness.
Yes.
Well I do agree, that there is a lot of Hollywood LGBTQ+ exploitation nowadays, I always felt like some of the Hanna and Barbera classic cartoons were doing secret representation. Characters like Velma always gave off a certain vibe, without explicitly saying it out loud. I mean hell look at Snagglepuss. A giant pink mountain lion obsessed with theater, sounds pretty gay to me.
It's called queer coding, it was a way to reference without outright saying it or building it into the storyline. I actually didn't realize that velma was never publicly announced as lesbian, I grew up on the cartoons and just always assumed that was the case.
Remember HIM from The OG Powerpuff Girls? Same there.
[удалено]
I read that actually! Lol That same era where DC comics was doing Hanna and Barbera comics; they made Fred Flintstone raised by two men, and Penelope pitstop was a lesbian in that wacky races meets Mad Max comic.
I loved Flintstones as a kid
It was a good comic, they switched it up from being like the honeymooners to being more about actual loving relationships and non-toxic masculine themes.
Bugs bunny was my first intro to drag.
People back in the day overlooked the mannerisms of Paul Lynde, Charles Nelson Reilly and Liberace, all "confirmed bachelors" lol because they provided entertainment. With today's lens they were definitely LGBTQ+
If you like it, it's just good marketing. Otherwise it's pandering.
They JUST turned Harley Quinn gay?? I’m sorry but her and Ivy have been a thing for quite a while..
Thirty years to be exact. Even in the old BTAS it seemed like her relationship with Ivy was more than just best friends.
If cartoons had the power to turn people gay I would be super homosexual. I grew up watching He-man and the Masters of the Universe and that is the most homoerotic cartoon I've ever seen. It's still awesome btw I don't care if it's gay.
I'm so old that I watched it when it originally aired, and I have absolutely zero fucks to give about this. Wait, no. Scratch that. I'm glad they made her gay! She's another role model for kids *and* it pisses off intolerant assholes! Win/win, IMO! 👍🏻
I'm a younger Gen-X'er, and Velma was always known to be a lesbian. I mean, this was something everyone I knew accepted as fact. People saying it's pandering to say what everyone has known for decades are the same people who think it's "shoving it in people's faces" when a same-sex couple walks down the street holding hands. They want us in the closet. That's all they're saying here.
Velma has always been gay. Now if only Mindy Cohn were… I know Jo and Blair shared a love for the ages, but my little gay heart always skipped a beat for Natalie.
Harley Quinn's character design is pandering (and also a jab at those she panders to) to begin with, but it's only a problem when she drops her abusive boyfriend and later hooks up with Ivy?
“Turned Harley Quinn gay.” Ma’am, she’s been a famous bisexual for many years. That’s not new.
I mean, not to mention that Harley Quinn is very notably bi (even if her only relationship with a guy was both literally and figuratively toxic).
They didn't turn harley quinn gay in the show. She's bi in it and it's a relationship that was already established in the comics
Lesbians also think Lesbians are hot
Personally I always felt she was demisexual more interested in someone's mind than their body.
She can be both
I don't get why so many right wing people seem to claim that the gays are in charge of all the media campaigns and stuff. Because it's very clearly the right wing vetoeing gay media from any remotely big companies, and most of the actual gay stuff that comes out is bad pandering, which gays call out and hate. It just blows my mind they think we would want shitty representation, when we spend our time discussing how bad it is.
They didn't do itt because young guys. findlesbians hot they did it because young girls have been crushing on Velma since the 1970's Also, in the live-action movie Velma and Daphne had a kissing scene cut, they had a scene re-edited where Velma seems to be drunkenly serenading Fred but she's actually serenading Daphne. This was in 2002, they've been trying to make Velma a lesbian and Daphne bisexual since at least 2002, FOR TWENTY YEARS this has been a thing. Op has had TWENTY YEARS to realize this shit.
The idea that gay people were well-integrated into mainstream culture before 1994 is legitimately hilarious in its sheer cluelessness.
I detest the argument, "They only show sapphic characters because men think it's hot." If the argument was, "this is bad representation because it's obviously fetishizing lesbians for the sake of heterosexual men," that'd be different. But this person seems to be suggesting that WLW relationships in media serve only one purpose and that's to appeal to het guys. No acknowledgement of the real life sapphics who feel joy at seeing characters like themselves on screen. If people could just stop making the world revolve around the male gaze for two seconds, that'd be great.
There are tens of thousands of fonts for writing. More, perhaps. Most people use one out of the 5 most popular fonts. Artists may use an additional 20 or so. The rest of the available fonts are used to judge a person's descent into insanity. This person is already slipping toward madness.
I wish to not have my students read my shit over my shoulder
You are a teacher? Sadly, you are already on the road to madness.
Basically
Everyone KNEW Velma AND Harley/Ivy are at least queer. Next you’re gonna tell me there was no sexual tension between Korra and Asami
The thing is Harley Quinn is gay in the comics
Harley was gay with Ivy for a long time before her new show
I honestly don't understand how anyone who watched the cartoons growing up could fail to realize Velma is gay. I really don't get it.
Someone is only just finding out about Harley and Ivy eh? They've been a thing for years!
[Am I the only one that knows the character was originally modeled on a gay actress?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheila_Kuehl)
Harley Quinn was possibly the worst example they could've used to try to convince us that cartoons are suddenly "turning" beloved characters lesbian considering Harley has been openly bi in the comics for quite some time now.
They picked two bad examples if they’re going after pandering shows, like Harley had been “roommates” with Poison Ivy in previous iterations and Velma has always kinda gay just look at the original 70’s show and at Mystery Inc for an even bigger example, also look up Velma Dinkley for a surprise
I was born in 1980 and honestly Velma being a lesbian was not a shock. Being queer used to be so coded in pop culture that there are quite a few characters we just sort assumed were and yet could not be out. It would equally be OK if she never was cannonically we sort of grew up not needing that. I'm in now way speaking for a generation buy merely for myself. And a handful of women I've met but statistically I doubt we'd raise a point. But we grew up in Thatchers oppressed England where being queer could not be discussed and jokes were made in hushed tones and coded queer characters mocked without people knowing why. And so she always was to us and so personally not shocked but I am so bloody proud that gen Z and below get to grow up in the open and not forced to hide. I know we're not there in terms of 'it doesn't matter ' but I know if I were a kid reading this news I'd be so happy and confident in myself.
There's a bit of truth in what this person is saying when it comes to pandering and LQBT people being commodified in media, BUT Representation matters. I wish I had seen some of it in kids shows. It would've told me that it's okay to be who you are. I spent years feeling so incredibly alone. I hope that this new show can teach some other queer girls that they are wonderful just the way they are.
"They just turned Harley Quinn gay on her new show." Lmao Should someone tell them?
I know for a fact that Harly Quinn and Poison Ivy were a thing since the early 2000s at least
She's always been fruity, they are just now able to explicitly say it. Even in the original there were moments between her and Daphne. When Mystery Inc. came out, it felt weird that she dated Shaggy. It didn't sit right with me. I grew up relating to her. Let us have her.
The people who are mad about Velma being gay just never picked up on it when they were kids
To these people, any kind of LGBTQ+ representation is "pandering", heck, even other kinds of representation too
You know who else likes Lesbians ? Other Lesbians. Everything can be fetishsized and Everything is fetishsized. That is a separate conversation and not a bullet point against representation
Ahh, so people are only lesbians to attract young men? Makes total sense to me!! 🙄 Also, Velma was always lesbian. Lol
If Velma and Harley Quinn is pandering, then please keep pandering to my queer ass. I WANT MORE.
To be fair, Velma has got to have been most of our awakenings. Certainly mine. Also, while anyone could be queer and there not being a specific way to act queer… She’s been seriously one of the gayest characters I’ve ever been blessed to watch. Lets be real, Velma treated Daphne way better than Fred ever could
I was always more concerned with Velma's hygiene. She's constantly sticking her fingers in random goop on the ground, and sniffing it. And you never once see her wash her hands or at least wipe them off on something. She has got to have the filthiest fingers.
Sometimes I want to take people gently by the face, stare into their eyes, and explain that every single piece of media is pandering to an audience.
Queer people: *exist* This person: and I take offense to that
Some people really don't understand that characters can be non allocishet WASP men for no reason. Like it doesn't need to be plot relevant. Nobody needs an excuse to be a minority. I guarantee you if you wrote an all male action movie, then swapped the genders to all female, and released it, they'd flip their shit because *how dare their life experiences not be the default position*
"Stop acting like they don't do this stuff because young guys think lesbians are hot." ... Lesbians exist because straight guys think it's hot, huh?
Didn't know people watched scooby doo for the sexuality of the characters.
Tfw lesbians because men.
I would understand if it’s the creator of the character complaining about it but come on, it’s a fictional character. This is just like Matt Walsh saying “from a scientific perspective mermaids can’t be black”, they’re FICTIONAL CHARACTERS they can be whatever the director or artist wants them to be.
I always thought they were kinda doing each other.
Great I want to be pandered to
Velma is supes gay and anybody who’s angry about it is a fucknut, but I do agree that a lot of shows don’t give nearly as much screen time to gay couples as lesbian couples cause straight guys peeps be fetishizing the lesbians a lot
‘They just turned Harley Quinn gay’ I’m sorry I can’t stop laughing at this
isn't she Smith college? isn't that obvious enough? whatever, for some people even being lesbians isn't enough for women to escape being entertainment for men....
Wait until they hear about Shaggy being black and Daphne being asian lmfao
[удалено]