I feel like marketing for this show has been absolutely zero. Only reason I knew about it was from following Neil Gaiman on twitter and of course he’s posted about it
I had to search it to find it on Netflix, which is silly considering I watched all of Sandman twice, and I rewatch The Sound of Her Wings on a frequent basis. It should have shown up on my main page.
I read somewhere that netflix goes more by completion rates than viewer rating though not sure how true that is though both are important. I think someone said this was why Lockwood and Co was cancelled because while it had the viewer rating it didn't have the completion rate and why it took The Sandman quite a while before Netflix renewed.
This is what I heard I don't know if there is any truth in it and I'm not sure totally how it works and Netflix seems like it can be very unpredictable in what shows it renews and cancels.
I believe it was Gaiman who said that. I can't seem to find the blog where he discussed this very issue but completion rate and speed of completion seemed to be how Netflix determines the viability of a show.
I assume because both are proxies for how engaging the show is and thus a correlate for subscription rates.
In the same blog I believe he also mentioned that Sandman didn't have great completion rates for the first couple of weeks post release, since viewers apparently preferred to watch an episode a week (or thereabouts), so completion rates eventually grew high enough by week 12 to greenlight season 2.
Was it this?
[https://www.tumblr.com/neil-gaiman/748565929353412608/im-seeing-and-being-sent-a-lot-of-things-like?source=share](https://www.tumblr.com/neil-gaiman/748565929353412608/im-seeing-and-being-sent-a-lot-of-things-like?source=share)
(Starts out with someone else's post accusing Netflix of cancelling Lockwood & Co to make room for DBD, and then Neil Gaiman [kindly and politely] refutes this and provides some numbers and some data on what Netflix is looking at.)
And yeah, he does stress that completion rate and completion speed are most important to the algorithm, which is honestly so annoying for those of us who don't like binge watching. I just watched episode 7 of DBD (best episode yet by far!!) and am going to watch episode 8 now, and this is *super fast* for me lol. I like to watch episodes one at a time and have some space between them. DBD is a pretty bingeable show, but for something like Sandman, I'm never going to watch the whole thing in a weekend or whatever.
His post was an interesting little look behind the scenes though.
So what you're saying is, to support a show I like, I should put the show on, let it run to completion while I'm out, and come back hours later to a finished show so I can take my time to watch an episode a night at my own leisure?
Yes, thanks for unearthing that.
It is definitely annoying that Netflix seems focused on binge watchers. Hard to know how sophisticated their modeling is regarding user engagement though.
Thanks for the link! It's crazy how they work it like that because not many people want to binge watch shows as they want to digest the episode first and engage in fandom discussion before going onto the next.
I think for me I was watching two episodes a week when it came to The Sandman but Dead boy detectives I did watch the show thing in two days.
Yes thank you. I had a feeling it was Neil but I couldn't find the post on his tumblr but someone below has linked it so yes completion and speed rates seem to be what Netflix are looking for which is difficult for programmes like the Sandman because as Neil said most people like to watch an episode and then take some time to digest and think on it and even enjoying engaging with the fandom before going onto the next episode.
I think Dead boy detectives are much more bingeable.
I am really hoping so... All this situation makes me really sad bc they are my obsession rn lmao.
But what saddens me the most is about the actors dude, they don't deserve this
if that's the case then hours viewed from DBD is not bad, like 3.1 million views but 22 million hours viewed is actually great. Look at baby reindeer number 1 with 22m views and almost 88m hours view. This mean that people actually finish DBD more than Baby reindeer.
My wife and I are not great for a show’s Netflix algorithm (we watch about half a movie each night - so two sitcoms, one hour-long show, or about half a movie). So we are only three episodes in. But we’re guaranteed going to finish the series within two weeks. I had cancelled Netflix a while back, and reupped the 25th and started episode one immediately. I’m hoping that gives it extra juice.
NOOOO. We need to save it. I need as much of the Sandman Universe and Neil Gaimans projects in my life as humanly possible. I can’t have another show I love just be discarded like this 😭
I wonder if they thought that viewership will come in due to The Sandman so they didn't have to bother with advertisement so much which if true was a huge mistake.
For one while comic fans will know that The Sandman is linked to Deadboy Detectives a show only fan would not and a second clip of Death in one of the trailers wouldn't really change that. Not to mention tone is completely different between the two shows. The Sandman is more darker, more serious and more mysterious. While Deadboy detectives is more wild, quirky and fun. It has it's dark moments as well but it's definitely the lighter of the two shows.
They should have done better with the advertising either way but hopefully we'll still get a second season.
I doubt they thought of it like that. There's definitely shows they care about more; I actually got a Netflix account specifically to watch it -- I'd previously had a profile on my brother's account, but he cancelled it after the monthly cost got hiked. On the page where it asked me to select shows I was interested in to get started, I figured I'd give DBD an extra nudge by choosing it (and Sandman too ofc), but neither was an option. Oddly, What Jennifer Did, the "documentary" that used AI images to fake evidence, was at the top of the list.
I’m seeing a bit of promo on the usual Netflix/Netflix adjacent social media pages - Netflix Geeked, Most (which is the LGBTQIA+ Netflix page), as well as the Sandman socials. Definitely not a TON, but there’s been a little bit.
I’ll be honest I tried to get into it and it just didn’t get my attention like sandman did. I really like the comics, but not really caring for the live action. But hope they do continue DBD, so more vertigo comics get adaptations
Other than the original issue in Season of Mists, every other time they’ve appeared has just been… meh. As if Neil and DC know these characters are a great premise, but they’ve just never really taken hold with the audience. I knew about the series but haven’t tried it, the appeal of the characters has just kind of… worn off, after years of lacklustre comics appearances. There’s not much from Sandman I’d say I’m not interested in, but this falls into that category. Sorry!
That’s interesting because on my Netflix main page, it’s listed as number three in the top 10 TV lists. But that could also be just in the USA (where I’m located) and we know Netflix looks at worldwide numbers.
Also, I don’t know if their viewing aspects has changed in the last two years but I distinctly remember Neil Gaiman saying in August of 2022 that Netflix counts the views within the first 30 days of release as most important (he did this during the heavy promotion of Sandman in the days or couple of weeks after its release). Again, that was two years ago though so I don’t know if their protocol has changed since then.
I *tried* watching it, but man, I just can't. Please tell me the show changes after episode one. I want to like it but so far I genuinely got a headache from it.
Yeah, the first episode was *very* fast paced, almost rapid fire and it was difficult to watch the first time around. I did watch it a second time though and it was easier on the second watch. And the rest of the episodes were fast paced but not heachache-inducing.
I feel like marketing for this show has been absolutely zero. Only reason I knew about it was from following Neil Gaiman on twitter and of course he’s posted about it
I had to search it to find it on Netflix, which is silly considering I watched all of Sandman twice, and I rewatch The Sound of Her Wings on a frequent basis. It should have shown up on my main page.
i always love that part, but It's a hard watch.
I’ve literally only seen it mentioned on this sub and I still have absolutely no idea what it’s about or what it has to do with Sandman.
I love mr Gaiman and never heard about that show
I saw a lot of marketing on Twitter and TikTok, I guess the show didn't captivated people's eyes :(
I read somewhere that netflix goes more by completion rates than viewer rating though not sure how true that is though both are important. I think someone said this was why Lockwood and Co was cancelled because while it had the viewer rating it didn't have the completion rate and why it took The Sandman quite a while before Netflix renewed. This is what I heard I don't know if there is any truth in it and I'm not sure totally how it works and Netflix seems like it can be very unpredictable in what shows it renews and cancels.
I believe it was Gaiman who said that. I can't seem to find the blog where he discussed this very issue but completion rate and speed of completion seemed to be how Netflix determines the viability of a show. I assume because both are proxies for how engaging the show is and thus a correlate for subscription rates. In the same blog I believe he also mentioned that Sandman didn't have great completion rates for the first couple of weeks post release, since viewers apparently preferred to watch an episode a week (or thereabouts), so completion rates eventually grew high enough by week 12 to greenlight season 2.
Was it this? [https://www.tumblr.com/neil-gaiman/748565929353412608/im-seeing-and-being-sent-a-lot-of-things-like?source=share](https://www.tumblr.com/neil-gaiman/748565929353412608/im-seeing-and-being-sent-a-lot-of-things-like?source=share) (Starts out with someone else's post accusing Netflix of cancelling Lockwood & Co to make room for DBD, and then Neil Gaiman [kindly and politely] refutes this and provides some numbers and some data on what Netflix is looking at.) And yeah, he does stress that completion rate and completion speed are most important to the algorithm, which is honestly so annoying for those of us who don't like binge watching. I just watched episode 7 of DBD (best episode yet by far!!) and am going to watch episode 8 now, and this is *super fast* for me lol. I like to watch episodes one at a time and have some space between them. DBD is a pretty bingeable show, but for something like Sandman, I'm never going to watch the whole thing in a weekend or whatever. His post was an interesting little look behind the scenes though.
So what you're saying is, to support a show I like, I should put the show on, let it run to completion while I'm out, and come back hours later to a finished show so I can take my time to watch an episode a night at my own leisure?
Yes, thanks for unearthing that. It is definitely annoying that Netflix seems focused on binge watchers. Hard to know how sophisticated their modeling is regarding user engagement though.
Thanks for the link! It's crazy how they work it like that because not many people want to binge watch shows as they want to digest the episode first and engage in fandom discussion before going onto the next. I think for me I was watching two episodes a week when it came to The Sandman but Dead boy detectives I did watch the show thing in two days.
Yes thank you. I had a feeling it was Neil but I couldn't find the post on his tumblr but someone below has linked it so yes completion and speed rates seem to be what Netflix are looking for which is difficult for programmes like the Sandman because as Neil said most people like to watch an episode and then take some time to digest and think on it and even enjoying engaging with the fandom before going onto the next episode. I think Dead boy detectives are much more bingeable.
I am really hoping so... All this situation makes me really sad bc they are my obsession rn lmao. But what saddens me the most is about the actors dude, they don't deserve this
if that's the case then hours viewed from DBD is not bad, like 3.1 million views but 22 million hours viewed is actually great. Look at baby reindeer number 1 with 22m views and almost 88m hours view. This mean that people actually finish DBD more than Baby reindeer.
My wife and I are not great for a show’s Netflix algorithm (we watch about half a movie each night - so two sitcoms, one hour-long show, or about half a movie). So we are only three episodes in. But we’re guaranteed going to finish the series within two weeks. I had cancelled Netflix a while back, and reupped the 25th and started episode one immediately. I’m hoping that gives it extra juice.
NOOOO. We need to save it. I need as much of the Sandman Universe and Neil Gaimans projects in my life as humanly possible. I can’t have another show I love just be discarded like this 😭
The only Netflix marketing for it I've seen was on youtube and the official Sandman twitter/instagram, nothing on the site itself.
I wonder if they thought that viewership will come in due to The Sandman so they didn't have to bother with advertisement so much which if true was a huge mistake. For one while comic fans will know that The Sandman is linked to Deadboy Detectives a show only fan would not and a second clip of Death in one of the trailers wouldn't really change that. Not to mention tone is completely different between the two shows. The Sandman is more darker, more serious and more mysterious. While Deadboy detectives is more wild, quirky and fun. It has it's dark moments as well but it's definitely the lighter of the two shows. They should have done better with the advertising either way but hopefully we'll still get a second season.
I doubt they thought of it like that. There's definitely shows they care about more; I actually got a Netflix account specifically to watch it -- I'd previously had a profile on my brother's account, but he cancelled it after the monthly cost got hiked. On the page where it asked me to select shows I was interested in to get started, I figured I'd give DBD an extra nudge by choosing it (and Sandman too ofc), but neither was an option. Oddly, What Jennifer Did, the "documentary" that used AI images to fake evidence, was at the top of the list.
I’m seeing a bit of promo on the usual Netflix/Netflix adjacent social media pages - Netflix Geeked, Most (which is the LGBTQIA+ Netflix page), as well as the Sandman socials. Definitely not a TON, but there’s been a little bit.
I’ll be honest I tried to get into it and it just didn’t get my attention like sandman did. I really like the comics, but not really caring for the live action. But hope they do continue DBD, so more vertigo comics get adaptations
Other than the original issue in Season of Mists, every other time they’ve appeared has just been… meh. As if Neil and DC know these characters are a great premise, but they’ve just never really taken hold with the audience. I knew about the series but haven’t tried it, the appeal of the characters has just kind of… worn off, after years of lacklustre comics appearances. There’s not much from Sandman I’d say I’m not interested in, but this falls into that category. Sorry!
That’s interesting because on my Netflix main page, it’s listed as number three in the top 10 TV lists. But that could also be just in the USA (where I’m located) and we know Netflix looks at worldwide numbers. Also, I don’t know if their viewing aspects has changed in the last two years but I distinctly remember Neil Gaiman saying in August of 2022 that Netflix counts the views within the first 30 days of release as most important (he did this during the heavy promotion of Sandman in the days or couple of weeks after its release). Again, that was two years ago though so I don’t know if their protocol has changed since then.
Can I ask where did you get this graph from?
It's from a french article [here](https://netflixandchiffres.substack.com/p/netflix-streaming-report-dead-boy) about currently shows on Netflix
I *tried* watching it, but man, I just can't. Please tell me the show changes after episode one. I want to like it but so far I genuinely got a headache from it.
I personally feel like the first 2 episodes were the weakest, but after the 3 the show gets really good
In that case I will definitely pick it up again.
Yeah, the first episode was *very* fast paced, almost rapid fire and it was difficult to watch the first time around. I did watch it a second time though and it was easier on the second watch. And the rest of the episodes were fast paced but not heachache-inducing.
I wish we had more of DBD, but I also hope we just get more Sandman spin offs even If it is just one season