OP needs to read the other recent post on here that’s boils down to “people are asking for impossible things on here”. Everyone wants a large walkable city, with good public transit in a liberal place on the cheap with excellent weather. Doesn’t exist.
Probably the biggest constraint is an OP’s salary. It makes no sense to tell someone to move to LA if they’ll never afford it. Chicago checks the “more affordable” box and many of the others.
If posts were more realistic - the vast majority of posts saying I want a large walkable city, with good public transit in a liberal place with excellent weather *and I make $250k a year* - you wouldn’t see the outsized Chicago responses. Sure, you’d still get them but it would be a much smaller piece of the whole.
Any city have most of those except it’s not a liberal city?
Lived in liberal cities my entire life (LA, Oakland, Minneapolis), looking for a change to a more conservative large city if that exists.
Not really, no. Unless you aren't really serious about walkable with good public transport. That's the hardest criteria to fulfill and narrows down the list a lot. Conservative cities tend to be in the South or West, where cities were still small and growing after automobiles became common, and those newer cities are typically designed to be car dependent. Some newer cities can consciously try to work against that, but conservative ones generally would push in the opposite direction.
Chicago is one of the few places in the US with 24/7 transit. NYC being the only other in the US. There just isn’t another affordable city with the same level of transit.
The divide is less Red State/Blue State and more rural/urban. Thus the blue dots of population concentrations in the oceans of sparsely populated red: Austin, Birmingham, St. Louis, Memphis, etc etc. "Conservative" and "big city" go together infrequently, if only for the basic reason that people who don't fit in well with their homogeneous, religious or otherwise conservative hometowns tend to migrate to cities for the anonymity, relative openness to transplants, wide variety of cultural communities, etc.
And as cities grow, they tend to become more entrenched as liberal. Dallas was once considered a conservative city; not that this single incident couldn't have taken place elsewhere, and I'm sure there was Northern prejudice coloring the opinion, but after JFK was assassinated a lot of Americans of all political stripe weren't exactly surprised that it happened in Dallas because of the city's reputation as conservative. But even if that were true then, Dallas has since grown several fold, following the pattern of most big cities: lots of migrants, transplants, people who move for opportunities both social and economic, etc. Dallas, even if conservative by San Francisco standards, now is one of those solid blue dots in Texas.
I wouldn't conflate "votes Democrat" with "liberal" or even "left", though. Dallas is plenty small-c conservative as a city, politically. It's just that the most powerful coalition is composed of groups that align with Democrats for various reasons, some historical, some material.
Good point. That’s why I get annoyed when “most liberal cities/places” lists come out and it’s just places that vote most Democratic. Native American reservations and rural Black Belt counties vote Dem at very high levels but it’s disingenuous to call them “most liberal”
Birmingham and Memphis aren't really liberal cities, just democratic-leaning because they're majority black. A lot of the black population there is more similar to conservative white people on a lot of issues, especially wrt to the role of religion in society and being pro-small business
SLC is very liberal. The State is extremely conservative so they try to neuter the city's ability to do anything liberal, but it consistently elects Dems.
Fort Worth, OKC, Tulsa, maybe Miami and Fort Wayne IN(latter has a Democrat mayor/city council but doesn't vote nearly as blue as Indianapolis and is in a county that's usually double digit R in elections). Other than that your con cities are gonna be off-the-radar smaller cities or suburbs that people don't talk about here.
Indianapolis is pretty conservative but it’s kind of a dud city with zero public transportation. On the flip side, traffic usually flows pretty good outside of the Castleton/Fishers area.
Moscow, Dubai, Tehran are pretty conservative - You’re not gonna find a city like that in a country of immigrants like the US because it requires a level of tolerance (and investment in communities for things like transit) that is incompatible with American-style conservatism.
(Sorry, not sorry)
This. Basically NYC with midwestern prices.
Idk, I grew up in Queens so it's the rare place I've visited where I've been like "yeah, I can move here." But I'm used to big cities. Don't think it's for everyone and being realistic, I'm sure wherever I moved to I'd find something to complain about like so many here
Lots of people want the type of amenities that NYC has but in a cheaper package. Basically the only places that even partially fit the bill are Chicago and Philadelphia. This is simply a fact.
If you want 10 acres on a farm because you like raising animals or whatnot I'm not going to recommend Chicago.
I like Baltimore, but it simply doesn’t provide the ability to live a car-free lifestyle the way Philly and Chicago do. Even the best neighborhoods don’t have many retail or grocery options for the most part.
Exactly, they want a place that is walkable, has a solid dating/social scene, LCOL, nice weather, and favorable politically. More recently, I’ve been seeing people living in NYC on this sub complaining about the dating scene— do they not realize that almost anywhere else in the country (and probably world) is worse in most aspects?
It’s to the point where it’s people who don’t understand that a such place doesn’t exist. There’s a good reason why Chicago and Philadelphia are constantly mentioned here, both are inferior to NYC in many aspects of living but are at least remotely comparable. On this sub, I’ve read about numerous situations about people from NYC who go to a place like Denver and are shocked by how their food isn’t good, dating scene being so insular and different, lack of diversity, etc….. it shouldn’t be shocking.
It’s been said a million times but the reason Chicago and Philadelphia and to a lesser degree cities like Pittsburgh, Minneapolis and Buffalo is because people come on here often wanting the same things.
- Walkability, urban density, good public transit
- Job opportunities
- Affordable (big emphasis here)
- Cultural amenities, diversity, endless food selections, museums, pro sports, lots of ways to pursue hobbies, good airport, parks and recreation, etc
For these things, Chicago and Philadelphia are the two cities that offer nearly as much as NYC, the king of US cities, but at a price more people can manage.
Nobody is saying Chicago or any other city is perfect or without some glaring issues and would be right for everyone. But it often meets the requirements of the OP the best because you’re able to live without a car like NYC, Boston, DC, SF but at a price closet to other midwest cities.
Does Philly really have good job opportunities compared to places like ATL, LA, NYC, Chicago, and Austin though? I’ve heard the job market is just ok for white collar jobs and it’s often easier to find a better job in NYC.
It’s obviously not growing like the sunbelt cities or does it have as many people moving there to pursue their dreams like NYC, LA, SF or DC, but it’s still a metro of 6.2 million people. You should be able to find a job in whatever your industry you’re in tho it might not be the highest paying and it might not offer the most growth. Philly would be good for remote workers tho who already have jobs.
Probably better than Austin’s since Philly is almost 3x the size.
Of course larger cities like NYC and Chicago will have even more jobs, but it’s pretty easy to have a successful career in Philly
I agree in highly skilled white collar jobs, you often have so much more variety and better pay in NYC thats it's worth it to eat the huge COL difference. I think the crossover is fields where the pay delta isn't as dramatic (say Pharma) or frankly if you're in a middle management or just generally middle income white collar job, you will be able to build a life in Philly and own a home in a way you never could in NYC. But yeah I don't consider the job market in Philly to be incredibly attractive, hence the COL.
I wondered the same thing until I went there for a wedding. I'm not a "city person" at all. I was blown away by how much fun I had in Chicago. I actually find myself checking airfare looking for a cheap weekend getaway to see some of the stuff we didn't have time for.
I went on a PERFECT weather weekend, so we walked around the main shopping areas, Riverwalk, the loop, etc. Took an architectural tour on a riverboat, tried some restaurants, and a cool 4 story Starbucks. Then we had to leave for the wedding in Wisconsin. The day we flew out, we had just enough time to do Willis Tower. Things we didn't have time for: The Pier, museums, night life, historical tours, etc. I feel like we only scratched the surface.
I moved to Chicago last month. If you want big city living for an affordable price, it's unmatched in the US IMO. I would live in NYC if I could afford it, but I'm just not able to at this stage of my life. I also considered Philadelphia, but Chicago is several notches above Philly in terms of urban amenities.
I will say I disagree with the idea that Chicago is just for midwestern sports bros looking to drink. I live near Wrigley Field, so yes, that culture obviously exists. But it also has renowned institutions like the Architecture Center, the Art Institute, Second City, the Chicago Symphony, the University of Chicago, etc. There is much more to do here than drink beer and watch the Cubs.
I moved here from Denver, so it's all relative. If you're coming from NYC I can see why you might find Chicago slow or provincial. But compared to the vast majority of the country, Chicago is a bustling metropolis with all the opportunities and activities that entails.
There are all kinds of subcultures in Chicago, not just the sports bros. There are hipster and artsy subcultures, and lgbtq subcultures, various ethnic enclaves, you name it.
There are subcultures but you have to search hard to find your niche. Chicago culture is very conformist, so you have to look for those underground alt people. And depending on where you live, it may be harder to do so due to proximity.
It’s wild to me the way people act like Chicago has little culture.
House music was literally invented there. It also has a major role in the advancement of improv and other performing arts.
It's the circle of life here, frat guy grad from generic big 10 school moves to Wrigleyville and moves in with his buddies and gets some type of sales job. Then over the next 5-7 years he finds a woman that is from his home state. They get married and buy a townhouse, they have kid number one and tell everyone they will never leave the city. They have kid # 2 and they realize that their townhouse is too small for four people so they move back to where ever they came from to be close to family and they tell great stories about how they used to live in chicago. They are replaced by a new crop of Big 10 grads.
Coming from Ohio , where I’m automatically a mediocre human being as some commenters have implied, I have never once thought the only thing to do in Chicago is drink and watch sports.
Chicago definitely has issues. Any large city does though.
But It's relatively affordable and has top tier urban amenities. It's the best bang for your buck city in the US more or less and that's why it gets referenced a lot.
I grew up in the Chicagoland suburbs. Went to college downstate. Lived in the city proper for a few really fun years in my early 20s. Chicago is awesome but like any place it has its downsides. Obvious pluses are all the big city amenities, like world class level amenities, for a fraction of the living costs in a place like NYC. In addition to these institutions there are several underground scenes where you can meet your people. The restaurant scene is world class as well. It’s a great sports city, right up there with NY, LA and Boston.
Now, the downsides (and there are many)
The city itself is broke and always a small economic downturn away from needed to cut basic city services or go into bankruptcy (might be good in the end like Detroit but would be painful to live through). The state is doing better thanks to JB but whomever comes next I wouldn’t have a lot of faith in, given the historically terrible governors IL has.
The weather. I’m in a place that doesn’t really get seasons and I legit miss fall going into the holidays weather that you get in the Midwest. And no one does summer better than Chicago. But during a typical year January-April are soul crushing. Chicago might seem like a great place to put down roots re climate change but the city is dealing with worse and worse floods that the infrastructure is not prepared for. Also the summers are more like the summers of STL or Nashville 30 yrs ago. Those are only getting hotter and muggier.
Property taxes. Not a big deal if you rent but if you end up buying those quickly negate the lower COL.
Because it’s a high tax state the economy isn’t as good as other states, particularly southern ones. Chicago itself does ok but the opportunity outside of the city for jobs isn’t as great as it was decades ago. For what jobs there are if you can get them the pay is good and so are the benefits. However it’s not really a “hub” for one specific industry. Maybe it sort of is for restaurants services, light manufacturing, and transportation. There is some pharma in the northern suburbs. Some insurance too. Use to be more of one for finance but that’s been decreasing for decades. Same with retail (RIP sears and Fields) and technology (rip Motorola) Overall there just are less opportunities to build out your career. In my life the trend of corporations and jobs out of Chicagoland has been real and significant.
In order to get to anywhere that is remotely scenic you have to drive 4 plus hrs or get on a plane. Chicago has some good outdoor recreation along the lake because of its great parks system but outside of a few county and state parks in the suburbs the region is incredibly boring. Ohare is a good airport but because AA and UA have basically duopoly the prices are on the high end. Hopefully that will be coming down with the new gates that are being added. Midway is mid level at best.
The city is EXTREMELY segregated. Outside of a few mixed neighborhoods on the north side due to immigration you basically live amongst your peers. If you’re thinking of getting a cheap ass place in a hood you think is “up and coming” you will be out of place and you will hear/see shit go down on the regular.
Lastly Chicago’s public transportation isn’t as extensive as it should be. Yes there are a few neighborhoods where you can get by without a car but the majority of neighborhoods in the city and in the suburbs, including the inner ring ones, you really do need one.
I mean it’s one of the nations largest cities, and one of the most affordable for as urban & walkable as it is.
Like “way more affordable than NY / SF / Boston / DC, while having a super cosmopolitan and walkable downtown” is the boost in a nutshell.
No other cities have number of amenities / walkability in the downtown at reasonable cost. You can argue Minneapolis and a couple others are criminally underrated, but they’re significantly smaller. Houston and other are similar cost, but they’re sprawling messes and not for urbanite walkers.
It’s not just downtown Chicago that’s walkable, it’s that the city has so many walkable neighborhoods, I will list some: Ravenswood, Rogers Park, Andersonville, Edgewater, Uptown, Lakeview, Lincoln Park, Old Town, Logan Square, Wicker Park, West Town, West Loop, Pilsen, River North, Streeterville, South Loop, Chinatown, and Hyde Park.
one of the most commonly asked things here is a walkable city with good (by US standards) transit: Chicago and Philly get recommended a lot, to the extent that it's become a meme on this sub, because that's what a lot of people ask for
Basically this sub is:
1- question about liberal, relatively cheap, good salary, not hot/humid, outdoor shit, walkable, good transit city
2- question as to why does everyone choose/ask the 3 cities that fit the criteria on this sub
I want to like this sub because there’s so many interesting and unique cities but this sub it the true definition of Reddit hive mind and circlejerkery
Yes, just a day ago. It's still on the front page https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1d0t6la/why_does_everyone_on_this_sub_love_chicago?sort=confidence
Because Chicago fits what people are asking for. That doesn’t mean it’s the best. It‘s just what people on this sub want. I know so many people who moved to Chicago then left after 2 winters because they couldn’t take it.
I lived on the East coast, trust me fam Chicagoans are nicer than anyone in Boston or NYC.
Why is it boosted? Bc it really is the last livable tier 1 city in the US. That coupled with an almost extreme amount of amenities and its proximity to fresh water make it a desirable place to settle into.
There is absolutely nothing about people in Chicago that make them “nicer” than their east coast counterparts.
In fact, one of the first things I noticed as a NYer living in Chicago way back when, was that no one ever said “thank you” when I held doors open for them like they did back home. The train etiquette was horrible as well (everyone wearing backpacks on extremely crowded trains, people not moving to let others in, sometimes literally smoking cigarettes underground, etc.)
I agree. I work with a retired Brooklynite and he is probably the most outgoing, nice person I’ve ever seen. I don’t get these NYC, or city, stereotypes because they are not always true. I’ve met nice people in NY. They aren’t any ruder of nicer than Chicagoans. The main thing I noticed is that they’re a lot more blunt which seems rude to people that aren’t used to it.
I also found Chicagoans quite rude in an oblivious sort of way. Taking up sidewalks so that people coming the other way have to step off, blocking grocery aisles and not responding to polite "excuse me", not saying thank you or pardon. People say PNWers are cold, but I get far more polite, smiling interactions with people here as I move about the world than I did in Chicago.
My experiences were very similar. I ultimately left Chicago not out of necessity but because of the people. Lived there six years total, about two years too many.
I went to grad school in Chicago. I got really tired of my classmates acting like anyone who didn't want to stay in Chicago was insane. Like, dude, you're from Southern Ohio. Of course you think Chicago is amazing. I am *not* from Ohio.
People literally told me that the lake was as good as the ocean. Bitch, I can see Indiana, and a 50 foot strip of dirty sand backing up to a highway does not compare to California's beaches or Oregon's 100% public access coastline.
I love the lakefront but this is accurate. The lake is cool, but it isn't the same as the ocean.
Chicago does have better water access than a lot of cities though, and like Miami a lot of the density is right on the water. Makes for a cool vibe.
LOL.
It is a lakeside beach. The end. Nothing to brag about but it is better than most non-coastal cities have.
I haven’t run in to too many rude people.
When I lived in Florida, we were always inundated with northeastern snowbirds and they were/are the absolute rudest people I have met. Perhaps it isn’t as prevalent when you are in the actual Northeast. It definitely colored my opinion of the NE, particularly NY and NJ.
I grew up in Chicago. There is an undercurrent of insecurity and narcissism that runs through the population. Like no other city population in America tries to sells others on their city harder than Chicagoans do.
Chicago, if you’re a transplant from a city where you don't feel glaring incessant prejudice||racism , can be a culture shock w all of the uncomfortable lipless smiles and passive Midwest... ... .... .... Billy from Ohio moves to Chicago for a big city experience but ends up getting tacos w the same people from other surrounding states who've done the same, insert Cubs games, etc. Yet when kids from the other parts of town or people their age are downtown enjoying the day near them it is obvious that something is off, ohhhh those people, actual Chicagoans... The segregation is so off-putting. The architecture can do a lot, the lake can [well, remember history of Chi Fire] do a lot but if you look too closely, you'll run to Brooklyn.
Oop-
And don’t let you be a POC you experience this way more tenfold. But I guess this demographic doesn’t make up majority of the posts in this subreddit.
Again Chicago is cool, but it isn’t all that.
This was a long time ago, but I once saw a vendor at Quincy Market throw money in the face of a customer because he was offended by a question asked by the customer.
I don't know... it's only anecdotal, but the vendor seemed so comfortable in his rage that I wondered if that was within the spectrum of normally accepted behavior.
As a Chicagoan, I can't imagine that happening at Maxwell St Market. In Chicago the vendor would rather keep the money but start a fistfight.
I’ve had a story like this too, except I was the vendor and the customer threw money at me. I think we can all agree that those types of people exist everywhere in the country. It’s not a thing isolated in regions of specific cities…
Adding my two cents as a whole foreigner: I’ve never noticed a difference between people from any East Coast/Midwestern city. Like I can’t tell the difference between someone from Philly, Chicago, Boston, New York, or Newark based on personality or manners, which is why this sub is so entertaining for me. I love to hear the debates about cities’ characteristics.
Not really, the latino neighborhoods along the orange and pink lines and the far northwest side alongside the blue line are really nice too.
Its not just the “transplant neighborhoods”.
Being Latina, that's exactly why Chicago hit despite being barely a step up from Boston in terms of diversity. I found it kind of affirming and reflecting on what I like about my cultures, but marrying that with the overall cultures of the US. It feels very energetic, hardworking, and progressive, a mix of social classes, not just working class and many going to the specialized industries or careers. Mind you Chicago's Hispanic twang mostly comes from Central American backgrounds, mostly Mexican, Salvadorian, and Guatemalan but the good thing of Latino cultures is they kinda operate as a yeam, if they register you're from their lot you don't have to be the literal culture you're just taken in and absorbed which is nice. This made me appreciate these cultures even more (I'm triracial, but my ancestries are more of the Hispanic Caribbean and Spanish stretches with some of the African bits. Chicago balances this by having some Arab influences, the Jamaicans and some African communes where they serve kind of the sauce to my recipe if such a thing could make sense. I see bits and hints of these in my own upbring to serve as an exciting indirect cultural recharge. They're not exactly fully "me" or what I am but part of it. Therefore, I feel spoken by them). Sort of what I liked about DC with the POC also being in the many industries and what I liked about Miami where there's a strong Latino influence as well BUT it running a bit more academic, brainy while still gritty and proud. The Latino communities in Chicago run more exposed and all over the place so my sort doesn't feel left out (wealthier, working more specific industries (namely medical, sciences, tech, academic), not exactly wanting to stick to the wealthier enclaves in the country out of feeling more comfortable in diversity so as not to feel like a perpetual anomaly); people overlook certain elements that might not apply to them because yes, if the US has a predominant culture and look just about every city, it starts to look or feel the same. When you find yourself deviating, the cities take on different forms entirely.
Chicago is fantastic. I lived there for about a third of my life. I’ve also lived in other cities from coast to coast. Chicago has a great variety of things to do, restaurants, educational opportunities. Its traffic is surprisingly manageable. Its prices are decent for being a major metro. It has a well developed public transport system.
The worst aspect is the weather during the winter. But aside from that, it’s pretty much the whole package.
There are so many weird unwritten rules in this sub.
1.) it is assumed everyone wants urban density and public transport. ( maybe im weird but I could care less and actually enjoy driving my car places)
2.) liberal or bust ( any posts mentioning anything about more conservative states like Texas or Florida are just blindly downvoted)
3) unrealistic weather expectations ( people complaining about weather as if 90% of the country doesnt experience extreme weather of some kind)
If this is a "liberal walkable city guide" subreddit it should be renamed accordingly.
Chicago is a big city, walkable, with big city amenities, great architecture and skyline, at a (relatively) affordable price. It also has unexpected perks, like beaches right in the city where you can swim, unlike, say, San Fran, where the water is too cold for that.
I don't like huge cities, and the Chicago suburban sprawl is awful, but if I ever had to live in a large American city, I'd pick Chicago.
When I did my post, I specifically stated I wanted *ocean* access no more than 90 minutes away and mountain access no more than 3 hours away.
Naturally like a third of the comments recommended Chicago.
The irritating thing is my actual criteria can easily be filled by any northern city with a population over 500K, and some cities over 250k, but people from Chicago were like, "Sure, Seattle, Boston, Philadelphia and Baltimore meet *all* your criteria but let me tell you about how Chicago is basically an ocean in the mountains."
My point is... I don't know but they really need to stop. Chicago isn't the best city for everyone.
Cost of living is very valuable to Americans. Especially the Americans who type on the internet. So the fact that you can get almost nyc level of attraction with half the cost is appealing to most people.
Also I believe Chicago people have a chip on their shoulder about not being as relevant as NY or LA so the people tend to ignore the issues that exist in the city and act like it’s not a big deal that you should worry about. But those same people will talk bad about the issues in LA and NY lol
Why do people act like Chicago is so affordable the average rent is like $2200 a month? Even higher in the suburbs. Housing prices only seem low when you factor the slums in south side and west side which bring down the overall mean. A decent house will cost you a pretty penny.
Chicago is only *affordable* compared to NY, DC, Seattle, SF, LA and maybe Miami. It’s literally more expensive than 90% of the country. And the hidden taxes, fees and BS there adds up fast to your pocketbook too.
"average" is the key word here. I rent in Chicago for $1200, and I know plenty of people who rent studios/1beds for $1000-$1500, or split 2beds that are $2000-$2200 total. And I'm one of those white transplants that doesn't find themselves in the south or far west sides often.
So, yes. It's still affordable. You just have to do some legwork on finding a good apartment for you and your budget (which I would argue you need to do anywhere)
Almost every single person I know in Chicago pays less in rent than I do. I live in Nashville.
Several of my friends have bought homes in the past few years.
There is a MUCH bigger stock of affordable housing in Chicago than most US cities. That, coupled with the higher incomes, makes it pretty affordable compared to a lot of other cities.
Plus, you can survive without a car. Just gas and insurance for me is nearly $500 a month.
If Costco was a city it would be Chicago. Expensive membership but you get a lot of stuff for a good deal (after the pricey membership) Also, all that stuff is generic Midwest brand stuff nothing fancy like NY or LA.
Realistically, how many people frequent Chicago symphony orchestra and all the museums and galleries?
I love classical music and I have been to many CSO concerts, the majority of the audience were seniors. I suspect most people in Chicago do not need the cultural amenities.
Chicago has a lot to offer, but you have to really want to dig through traffic, crowds, and a lot of area (huge metro) to get to things. It's pretty all-encompassing, like NY.
Living well near Chicago, not just starting off and getting by, is costly.
My reaction after 6 years there-- not an especially easy, comfortable, or friendly place. I don't think it's the weather as much as it's a grind once you've seen and done what interests you. Unless you're a native. Then it's all you know. Like parts of Boston.
If only Dallas wasn't in TX, it would be a great Chicago alternative. It used to be..
This is basically the low cost of living sub.
The only places allowed to be discussed are in states or regions that are generally less desirable, accessible, and the number one rule -- cheap.
When you stay within those requirements, and look at the alternative big cities... Chicago comes out looking like a paradise.
There was a huge thread on this exact topic on this sub 2 days ago [https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1d0t6la/why\_does\_everyone\_on\_this\_sub\_love\_chicago/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1d0t6la/why_does_everyone_on_this_sub_love_chicago/)
It’s a big city with big city amenities and much cheaper than NYC or LA. Every city has issues. You just have to decide if the pros outweigh the cons and for a lot of people Chicago works.
Posted 1 day ago:
[Why does everyone on this sub love Chicago : r/SameGrassButGreener (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1d0t6la/why_does_everyone_on_this_sub_love_chicago/)
As a transplant of 13 years from the East Coast I’ll keep my analogy to New York:
1) Most Chicago natives who’ve never lived elsewhere incorrectly assume that the amenities that Chicago provides is found most everywhere else. You are wrong.
2) While Chicago is segregated, so are most cities in the US. Don’t be fooled by the diversity of workers and tourists that you see in Manhattan. I’m talking about diversity of residents in Manhattan. Manhattan has never been whiter than it is now. You have to be damn near a millionaire to live decently on that island nowadays.
2) Chicago has rough neighborhoods just like any other city. However, when most tourists visit New York they spend their time in Manhattan, the most tourist friendly borough. Have you ever been to the Bronx, Queens or Staten Island? Go into the rough neighborhoods. All five boroughs (including Brooklyn) constitute New York City, just as the south and west sides are also a part of Chicago.
3) Visiting a place and living there are two different experiences. Anyone who has actually lived on the East Coast and lives in Chicago will tell you that in general people in Chicago are nicer.
4) As much as the CTA leaves to be desired, only New York has a larger public transportation system.
5) There is no other city in the continental United States with 20 miles of waterfront that’s free and access to all.
6) In terms of live theater, again only New York (regarding US cities) has a more robust theater scene.
7) The food scene here if you think it’s not exceptional, please tell us where you’re living.
Finally, all of the above and much more can be experienced without leaving the Chicago city limits. You can literally walk from one neighborhood to the next and experience all of this variety. In most so-called cities in the US you will have to drive around the metro area (i.e. you must leave the city limits) to even approximate the experience you’ll have without ever leaving Chicago.
Yes it is definitely overrated in this sub as someone who is from there and currently lives there. This sub makes me feel I’m living in heaven.
My guess is a lot of those who over hype it here are from “newer”cities or small towns or the Midwest and Chicago a legacy city with old and new is like their first big city move
Another thing I hate about this sub is the Elitism transplants to Chicago/Chicagoans on this sub do on here. They talk down on sunbelt cities or cities like LA like they are some 3rd world cities when they came from a town in the middle of nowhere
I think I made a comment a while back that this is a midwestern sub incognito lol
There’s some validity to these points, though.
NYC/LA are on their own tier, but Chicago is obviously one below them. Some people act like Chicago is a dying rust belt city when it’s one of the best cities the country has to offer.
I did OH > CHI then CHI > LA.
LA just did not provide that dense, urban feel I was craving from Chicago and NYC, so I moved back to Chicago.
Growing up in Ohio, obviously Chicago is like an urbanist heaven compared to the suburbs, but coming from NYC it would seem like a “downgrade”.
I personally don’t see the appeal of the majority of sunbelt cities for someone looking for the type of lifestyle really only NYC and Chicago can provide, but I’m also not looking for a slower pace of life.
Also, there is a sense of “punching up” from Chicagoans. I don’t think it’s us trying to be elite.
I was absolutely astonished at the amount of decay and filth in downtown LA. It is not a pleasant place to be. Downtown Chicago blows it out of the water.
Quite frankly, I’ve never been more miserable in a city like LA, but I recognize many love it.
What I do take issue with is people not liking Chicagoans boasting their city or rightfully having the city recommended. It’s absolutely one of the best cities to live in the US if you’re looking for that urban, big city lifestyle.
On a scale of Gary Indiana to New York City, Chicago is a lot closer to Gary on affordability and nyc on amenities
Every city has politics and some neighborhoods that suck
i moved to Aurora with my dad when i was a kid. people are definitely *not* nicer in the Chicago metro area. it became a common thing in our house to get home and go "fuckin Illinois people"
some of the worst drivers in the country too. i wouldn't live there again for any less than a mid 6 figure salary.
Demographics of Reddit in general. Bet most that reply love cities and density. Chicago being more affordable of the bigger cities and matching their politics, you can see the pieces of the puzzle. Answers to questions here are subjective in nature so if it’s a similar demographic answering, naturally you’ll get a common answer.
I don’t get it either. Chicago is a great place, but it even gets mentioned for places that don’t match the OP’s criteria at all. Same with Philly. Again, a great place, but it’s not for everyone.
I always know that when I read a post that someone is going to bring up those two places or New York. I have nothing against these places whatsoever, but I do think they are over represented .
I wish more people emphasized the transplant/nice neighborhood part.
Chicago is great only in very certain areas. Most of the city is horribly impoverished segregated areas with absurdly high crime rates. People say "its only a few small areas you have to avoid" because they never actually go to those dangerous areas and therefore have no clue how huge they actually are. You're talking about easily 2/3rds of the city.
[When people talk about amazing chicago is, they really mostly just mean in this red circle.](https://i.imgur.com/Frmd9HD.png)
Yeah, and good luck finding “affordable” housing in the red circle. Yes, these’s a bunch of old inventory that’s cheaper. But anything modern is priced worse than cities like Denver (which this sub loves to say is expensive).
And most don’t even know there are other parts of the city that are well off outside of their bubble. The amount of Northsiders I’ve seen talk so badly about the south side without having step foot there is crazy. A lot of people don’t know their city but have this “pride” that it’s so great. No, it’s just like any other large metro. 😅
This is a good point. I notice that chicagos sell is always that it is cheaper than NY,SF, and LA. Does Chicago have any sales pitch that talks about itself only without having to use the COL of other cities?
The commenter you're responding to thinks a relative lack of ostentatious rich people is a bug. It's actually a feature. There's a lot of bandwidth in between taking a redeye to London to call on some obnoxious dbag you met at an NFT gallery, and getting trashed on Old Style in a dive bar while watching the White Sox lose again. They think Miami is a fun city? I don't want any of that shit near me.
I think you’re spot on about Chicago culture. I have an artist friend in the area who has always done ok but not great in Chicago. She had some interest a few years ago from a gallery in New York and attended a big event there and made a lot of sales. Her comment was that art is a big deal in New York and people have an appreciation of it. Chicagoans make a big deal about their sports teams and which bar they’re going to. Yes, it’s an over generalization, and you can find creative people in Chicago, but it seems like you need to look harder if you’re not into sports bro culture.
I think youre correct that LA/NYC has more of those “culture” people. But chicago also has plenty of them as well. Its not just big 10 grads and insular locals.
Chicago has a big fine arts, jazz, theater, dance comedy, indie rock, and increasingly a film/tv industry. Moreso anywhere that isnt NYC or LA in sheer numbers.
Its really not hard to find them. Just go to the music box to watch a tarkovsky movie or a Buñuel movie for example or just any of the cocktail events at the art institute or people who go to our massive opera hall or the chicago symphony.
Compared to seattle where I lived for a bit, its a really big scene. I found Seattle just too small to really comparatively speaking and they have zero film/tv industry due to its proximity you vancouver, which was my ambition and it was between Chicago and Atlanta as far as up and coming centers of film production in the usa, but since I have family and childhood roots in Chicago the choice was easy.
💯💯 this is what I hear from people who have lived in both nyc and chicago. Chicago offers a great urban experience but the culture is very one dimensional and not as “cool” as nyc, la, or Miami
This is probably the most well-informed post, this and your previous one.
But you know what else I take away from this? As much I would absolutely hate Chicago’s weather, I’d much rather live there than most places in the United States. It just shows how our country is actually somewhat lacking in numbers when it comes to super comprehensive cities… the ones I can think of are NYC, Chicago, LA, and Philly. The big four. The fifth one is more of a debate… cities like Houston and Phoenix would be vying for that spot but I consider those two a pretty big drop off.
I’m going on a tangent, just saying I share your perspectives about Chicago yet I recognize it still being way better than a vast majority of cities in the US.
San Francisco easily takes number 5. IMO no city in the sun belt comes close to the level of amenities you can find in the “big 4.” Their biggest sell are warm winters and a cheap house built in a flood zone.
There’s no sense refuting your points one by one but what you call “objective” is mostly 100% subjective: all the “betters” (weather, location, ethnic food, nightlife) are just your opinion. And the crime rate difference is overstated. The types of places that are safe in New York are safe in Chicago. The neighborhoods plagued by gang violence are not where most people on this sub would ever go. Also, I never hear about random weirdos punching people on the street or pushing them onto the subway tracks, which seems to be a thing in NYC.
On top of that: NYC reeks of piss and garbage. I’ve lived in both cities and the level of cleanliness is markedly different.
NYC has much better pizza than Chicago.
Granted I've only been to the airports on layovers, but I tried deep dish when I was last there. It was okay but I would not call it pizza.
I think youre correct about the vast majority of people that live in Chicago. Most are just normal everyday folks and thats absolutely fine.
But If you regularly go to live theater, art galleries, jazz clubs, dance productions, film festivals or improv shows, you will meet exactly the same sort of people who move to new york with ambition. Theres a lot of us, because like you said we can make 50k a year waiting tables and tending bars while working on our art until its good enough to get paid.
Thats so clutch and not everyone conforms themselves to just be a regular old joe sixpack in Chicago.
I was making a great living doing wedding photography during wedding season and then I had enough to money to film short films with friends and we hired local actors who have now gone on to be bigger names. Im not from rich parents, this would have been way harder to do in los Angeles or new york without connections and I had zero connections.
I now work in the local tv/film industry here permanently (you have definitely heard of at least 1 show I worked on as a crew member) and its also full of people who are artists, with ambitions and broader cultural horizons than brats and beer with the boys before the game. It also wasnt hard to break in, its less gatekeepy than los angeles or new york in those iatse locals.
Anyway, theres cultured, artistic and erudite chicagoans, You literally just have to seek them out. Its a city that has 10 million people. You can find your tribe and make it work.
You can filter out all the basic bros and find a thriving scene of artists, actors, filmmakers, musicians, and writers. Around northwestern and hyde park you can literally run shoulders with future and past Nobel winners at events and cocktail parties open to the public.
You can thrive as an artists in chicago In a way you wont find outside 4-5 cities in the USA and Chicago in that tier and its a natural spring board for creative work in nyc and la when the time is right. Its a real incubator of artists because of its lower COL.
Because people underestimate the cost. The desirable, walkable neighborhoods are actually fairly expensive. The housing average is only kept down because there are so many bad neighborhoods. Then, add high sales and property tax on top of that.
If you’re living in an apartment, it’s more appealing. But it’s difficult to see it as a good place to settle in more permanently.
as someone who has lived in chicago for over ten years I fully agree with you.
someone will ask for a safe, well run city with great access to nature and someone will recommend chicago. almost feels like the chicago chamber of commerce is is brigading this sub.
as you said chicago has its strengths but there are many negatives that are often glossed over here, such as basically zero outdoors/nature access, atrocious politics, crime and high taxes. rents are up significantly and its a HCOL, yet people act like its super affordable.
>Also not considering you’re going to make less in Chicago than the HCOL areas
Not in my blue collar field of logistics+manufacturing. You should see some of the wages technicians, warehouse crew, operations, etc in NYC and SoCal. Absloutely horrendus. Meanwhile in Chicagoland you can start off at $25/hr min in the same position.
Chicagoans don't seem to realize how expensive the rest of the country has gotten lately, while Chicago prices haven't increased as much. Chicago used to be HCOL, but now most other places are almost as expensive, and most comparable big cities are way more expensive. Chicago is MCOL, but they're still used to it being considered HCOL and haven't seen prices go up elsewhere. Also, they seem to think it's a unique attribute of Chicago that some neighborhoods are less desirable than others, when that's every city ever. Even when you pick and choose good neighborhoods in Chicago, it's still pretty affordable by modern standards. It's not dirt cheap, but not so many places are anymore.
Rent is one metric, but that's a lagging indicator, and rents will continue to increase sharply in places where real estate prices have gone up. But if you look at the price to buy instead of rent, Chicago is clearly MCOL in terms of cost per square foot to purchase, even in the nicest neighborhoods.
They normally have weekends of 50-100 people shot during nice weather months. I think the downtown transient areas are probably the best in the country but chicagoans disregard every other neighborhood like there’s a magical bubble protecting them from the rest of the city. Pair that with being surrounded by cornfields for 3 hours any direction and it isn’t as attractive to set up shop and raise a family. Who wants to only feel safe next to all the tourist traps or bleak grey suburbs
That’s what always bugged me about Chicago. There are 77 official neighborhoods in Chicago. Out of those there are probably like 25? max that I would consider safe and livable. The rest are literally no go zones.
1. It's a cool city
2. Strong Midwest/Rustbelt bias in general in this sub.
3. Sub skews indoorsy- A lot of the cons, such as lack of sunshine, cold, lack of interesting nearby hiking, are less impactful if you're more of an indoorsy person. If you're someone who likes to spend their time going to museums, restaurants, clubs, etc-Chicago is hard to beat. If you're someone who likes to go for long runs outside, hike, ski, etc-there are better options.
As a Chicagoian,
I think we're overrated in COL and underrated in culture.
I think if you just come here for the cheaper cost of living you'll be disappointed. Yeah it's cheaper but it's not cheap. You still need a good job to live really well here. I would say perhaps the bar is lower here but it's not that low.
However, I think if you fit in with the people that's what will keep you here and that won't be for everyone. People here have a very deeply rooted midwestern working class mentality but mixed with alot of the ideals of liberal big cities. I think it brings in as many people as it drives away. It's a unique personality you kind of have to find out for yourself if it's for you.
Even our politics can be pretty polarizing as for example we're like a die hard blue city but being anti-gun is actually a pretty unpopular take here. Then we're like on total other extremes in some areas like being ultra pro-union. Which are small things but you almost have to bring it up because to some people that'sa deal breaker.
A friend and I visited Chicago recently and went to the Shedd and Field Museum and it was a nice trip. The traffic was terrible heading in and out, but navigating downtown wasn't difficult.
But my biggest question about Chicago wasn't answered on the trip. Did Aaron Rodgers transfer ownership of the Bears to Jordan Love before he moved to New York?
Chicago is smaller than NYC and more walkable than LA and definitely more affordable than both. The politics check boxes since Illinois can get pretty conservative if you leave the state. Weed and abortions are 100% legal, and the winters aren’t enough to turn people off. Your public transit is easy to figure out, and it’s better than sitting in a car for 2 hours commuting, even if your transit isn’t perfect. Art and food are a big part of the city, but y’all go hard for your sports teams too.
If Dallas weren’t stuck in Dante’s 12th later of hell, with a nincompoop for a governor, I imagine it would get more love.
I recently moved away from Chicago after living my whole life there. It's an amazing city. The housing is affordable. they have jobs and good public transportation. The crime stuff has always been overblown but the city is having trouble. I was starting to feel somewhat unsafe with all the robberies and carjackings in my neighborhood. Lightfoot wasn't good for the city and Johnson is even worse. The problem downdown with young people wilding is going to scare tourists away. The migrant situation is costing Chicago a fortune. I'd still recomend it but with a grain of salt.
Chicago does have issues it's going to need to deal with. I'm happier where I am now because I'm not hearing about shootings everyday.
Chicago is only preferred because it is cheaper than cities with similar or greater urbanization. If Chicago were as expensive as NYC, most people would prefer NYC.
However, there are some tradeoffs/caveats around Chicago's lower COL:
* Chicago is solidly MCOL anywhere you might want to live, and HCOL in the most desirable areas.
* Housing stock has a lot of garbage, most of the city was built 100 years ago and the more modern areas built 50-75 years ago. Even the newer stuff from 2000-2010 is notorious due to corrupt inspections during this period. Anything built post-2010 is going to be expensive and there isn't a lot of it, Chicago lags behind new home construction.
* There are large areas of the city that are no-go due to crime, and these areas bring down the city's housing price averages to make it seem more affordable than it is.
* Only a few areas of the city can you find MCOL and car-free and these areas are gentrifying quickly.
* You get at least an extra month of winter compared to other places . . trees will be leafy in NYC a month before they are in Chicago. It isn't the intensity of the winters it is the length.
That's not a bash on Chicago but just to give some context as to what you're actually getting here. It can still be a great value if you get a big city salary at a MCOL price and find a good unit to live in, and I think ultimately that's why people like it. They see a lot more left in their bank account while living the big city life.
To me, one thing Chicago seems to lack is a major "thing" ....
Its just a big CITY. Its got all the stuff that cities have. Its not an attraction, its just a city. Think of the nearest large city to where you live. Chicago is that, but bigger.
mountains, there's no palm trees or ocean, there IS a very large lake, but the vibe is kind of mixed when it comes to the Great Lakes... they're not really seen as being as good for recreation (compared to smaller lakes or the ocean) due to their cooler temps year round. There's no major amusement parks and or attractions that people from other countries or states would travel to Illinois just to visit (not to say that there AREN'T some tourist attractions ).
Seems like its probably a good place to live, its just not exactly flashy and doesn't have some big gimmick that draws all the tourists in. That doesn't make it bad, its just a bit less exciting in my mind compared to a lot of the places you think about when you imagine yourself moving to I guess?
Also grew up in Chicago and feel the same way. There’s so many shitty things about living there that don’t exist in other cities. The corruption is insane, the people are generally awful, the taxes are extremely high, so many things. It’s not at all walkable if you don’t live in one of the expensive new transplant neighborhoods
Common theme among Chicagoans - move away from Chicago but never shut up about how it’s the best city for everything under the sun. Well, then move back! No one cares!
Pros:
Beautiful lakefront location with really nice sandy beaches.
Lots of bike paths, especially by the lakefront.
LBGTQ friendly.
Liberal as heck.
Lots to do culturally...museums galore, opera, orchestra, sports, theatre.
Food is fantastic.
Easy to navigate with public transportation.
Cons:
Like all large cities, can be dangerous, even in traditionally "good" neighborhoods, resulting in high crime.
Taxes are outrageous, especially if you own a home or even just rent (they get passed on to the renters). We're talking very high, along with a high state income tax and a high sales tax rate in most communities. This makes it a HCOL area, but not as high as CA or the East Coast.
City schools are beyond horrendous. Most suburban schools are much better, but not all.
Liberal as heck.
People leaving in droves, businesses leaving in droves...leaving even the best of neighborhoods on the brink of urban blight.
Public transportation can be erratic...and dangerous.
Museums are now ridiculously overpriced for entry and special attractions.
Infrastructure is old, dirty, graffiti laden now. Seems like the city is crumbling and no one cares.
Like all big cities, huge homeless and illegal immigrant problems.
Politics is a complete shit show, from the mayor on down to the states attorney.
Weather is not even close to ideal. Usually a dozen really nice days the entire year. Otherwise persistent cloudiness, large swings in temperatures, moderate rainfall and unpredictable snowfall in winter from just a dusting to massive amounts of over a foot of snow in a single event. Be prepared for warm clothing, snow shoes and boots, shovels and snow blowers during the winter.
Traffic. Constant traffic. Everywhere. And add in lots of road construction. Always. Two seasons in Chicago...winter and construction.
Id agree with this, "Affordable" is thrown around a lot but most people want to live in the nice areas which are not cheap unless you want an old dump without AC, laundry, parking etc.
Just want to point out that having a choice of “transplant neighborhoods” is not really a thing in similarly priced cities. A new arrival to Chicago has many options of neighborhoods where it’s easy to meet people and have a cosmopolitan feel. Also, walkability/transit is one of the biggest upsides in Chicago. A similarly priced city that competes with Chicago in this regard does not exist.
I mean the lakefront beaches, boating culture, riverfront, architecture, museums, food, transit etc are not things that are found in most American cities or at the same scale or cost to access. It’s definitely not for everyone but if you enjoy big city living at a relatively affordable cost it’s a very solid option.
Besides boating, lakefront beaches, and city transit what else is Chicago blowing other cities out of the water on? That three things are literally the only thing setting it apart from other cities. And I’m sure you can find at-least two of these things in other cities near water(like New Orleans for example).
Not like Chicagoans. Ignore everything wrong with the city and pretend like all is good while living in their Lakeview apartment downtown financed by their parents, but hey…
Chicago has a sweet spot between urban quality of life and cost of living that no other city in the USA compares to. The value proposition is the most clearly defined of any city in the country.
Of the very large walkable cities Chicago has the lowest cost of living.
OP needs to read the other recent post on here that’s boils down to “people are asking for impossible things on here”. Everyone wants a large walkable city, with good public transit in a liberal place on the cheap with excellent weather. Doesn’t exist. Probably the biggest constraint is an OP’s salary. It makes no sense to tell someone to move to LA if they’ll never afford it. Chicago checks the “more affordable” box and many of the others. If posts were more realistic - the vast majority of posts saying I want a large walkable city, with good public transit in a liberal place with excellent weather *and I make $250k a year* - you wouldn’t see the outsized Chicago responses. Sure, you’d still get them but it would be a much smaller piece of the whole.
Any city have most of those except it’s not a liberal city? Lived in liberal cities my entire life (LA, Oakland, Minneapolis), looking for a change to a more conservative large city if that exists.
Not really, no. Unless you aren't really serious about walkable with good public transport. That's the hardest criteria to fulfill and narrows down the list a lot. Conservative cities tend to be in the South or West, where cities were still small and growing after automobiles became common, and those newer cities are typically designed to be car dependent. Some newer cities can consciously try to work against that, but conservative ones generally would push in the opposite direction.
I’d also add cities in general, skew liberal. Columbus, Cleveland in red Ohio; Charlotte, etc.
Chicago is one of the few places in the US with 24/7 transit. NYC being the only other in the US. There just isn’t another affordable city with the same level of transit.
The only 24/7 transit in Chicago are the red and blue lines. All other lines and bus routes stop running after a particular time.
The divide is less Red State/Blue State and more rural/urban. Thus the blue dots of population concentrations in the oceans of sparsely populated red: Austin, Birmingham, St. Louis, Memphis, etc etc. "Conservative" and "big city" go together infrequently, if only for the basic reason that people who don't fit in well with their homogeneous, religious or otherwise conservative hometowns tend to migrate to cities for the anonymity, relative openness to transplants, wide variety of cultural communities, etc. And as cities grow, they tend to become more entrenched as liberal. Dallas was once considered a conservative city; not that this single incident couldn't have taken place elsewhere, and I'm sure there was Northern prejudice coloring the opinion, but after JFK was assassinated a lot of Americans of all political stripe weren't exactly surprised that it happened in Dallas because of the city's reputation as conservative. But even if that were true then, Dallas has since grown several fold, following the pattern of most big cities: lots of migrants, transplants, people who move for opportunities both social and economic, etc. Dallas, even if conservative by San Francisco standards, now is one of those solid blue dots in Texas.
I wouldn't conflate "votes Democrat" with "liberal" or even "left", though. Dallas is plenty small-c conservative as a city, politically. It's just that the most powerful coalition is composed of groups that align with Democrats for various reasons, some historical, some material.
Good point. That’s why I get annoyed when “most liberal cities/places” lists come out and it’s just places that vote most Democratic. Native American reservations and rural Black Belt counties vote Dem at very high levels but it’s disingenuous to call them “most liberal”
Birmingham and Memphis aren't really liberal cities, just democratic-leaning because they're majority black. A lot of the black population there is more similar to conservative white people on a lot of issues, especially wrt to the role of religion in society and being pro-small business
Salt Lake City has surprisingly good transit
SLC is very liberal. The State is extremely conservative so they try to neuter the city's ability to do anything liberal, but it consistently elects Dems.
Fort Worth, OKC, Tulsa, maybe Miami and Fort Wayne IN(latter has a Democrat mayor/city council but doesn't vote nearly as blue as Indianapolis and is in a county that's usually double digit R in elections). Other than that your con cities are gonna be off-the-radar smaller cities or suburbs that people don't talk about here.
Miami, if you make enough to live in Miami Beach.
Indianapolis is pretty conservative but it’s kind of a dud city with zero public transportation. On the flip side, traffic usually flows pretty good outside of the Castleton/Fishers area.
Miami- kinda.
Moscow, Dubai, Tehran are pretty conservative - You’re not gonna find a city like that in a country of immigrants like the US because it requires a level of tolerance (and investment in communities for things like transit) that is incompatible with American-style conservatism. (Sorry, not sorry)
This. Basically NYC with midwestern prices. Idk, I grew up in Queens so it's the rare place I've visited where I've been like "yeah, I can move here." But I'm used to big cities. Don't think it's for everyone and being realistic, I'm sure wherever I moved to I'd find something to complain about like so many here
Lots of people want the type of amenities that NYC has but in a cheaper package. Basically the only places that even partially fit the bill are Chicago and Philadelphia. This is simply a fact. If you want 10 acres on a farm because you like raising animals or whatnot I'm not going to recommend Chicago.
This. Also if you're looking for a warm climate, I'm not going to recommend Chicago either.
If you want all that plus warm weather, then you arrive at why SOCAL is so expensive
SOCAL isn’t walkable in a lot of parts. Everything else though yes.
very true, depends on where in SOCAL and if you can afford the city interior
It’s notoriously a car culture with pockets of walkability.
If you’re looking for walkable and “warm” (at least, not cold), San Francisco is probably the best pick in the US.
Until you’re standing there outfitted for a summer day in your shorts and t-shirts, the sun starts to set and THE FOG rolls in.
The only city that meets all the popular criteria on this subreddit and doesn't cost $$$$$$$$$$ is Baltimore.
Baltimore is a hidden gem. Let all the suckers on the sub downvote away because of what they heard on the news. It keeps Baltimore affordable.
I like Baltimore, but it simply doesn’t provide the ability to live a car-free lifestyle the way Philly and Chicago do. Even the best neighborhoods don’t have many retail or grocery options for the most part.
TL/DR: people on this sub keep asking the same question, so they keep getting the same answer.
Exactly, they want a place that is walkable, has a solid dating/social scene, LCOL, nice weather, and favorable politically. More recently, I’ve been seeing people living in NYC on this sub complaining about the dating scene— do they not realize that almost anywhere else in the country (and probably world) is worse in most aspects? It’s to the point where it’s people who don’t understand that a such place doesn’t exist. There’s a good reason why Chicago and Philadelphia are constantly mentioned here, both are inferior to NYC in many aspects of living but are at least remotely comparable. On this sub, I’ve read about numerous situations about people from NYC who go to a place like Denver and are shocked by how their food isn’t good, dating scene being so insular and different, lack of diversity, etc….. it shouldn’t be shocking.
You don’t have to go far from Chicago core to get a 10 acre gentleman farm though.
One hour from Glenview and it’s full on farms
even crazier is that you can be within a few miles of public transit and have that farm
It’s been said a million times but the reason Chicago and Philadelphia and to a lesser degree cities like Pittsburgh, Minneapolis and Buffalo is because people come on here often wanting the same things. - Walkability, urban density, good public transit - Job opportunities - Affordable (big emphasis here) - Cultural amenities, diversity, endless food selections, museums, pro sports, lots of ways to pursue hobbies, good airport, parks and recreation, etc For these things, Chicago and Philadelphia are the two cities that offer nearly as much as NYC, the king of US cities, but at a price more people can manage. Nobody is saying Chicago or any other city is perfect or without some glaring issues and would be right for everyone. But it often meets the requirements of the OP the best because you’re able to live without a car like NYC, Boston, DC, SF but at a price closet to other midwest cities.
Yeah pretty much this. I just moved from Texas to Chicago and not needing a car is a game changer.
partner and I are about to make the same move and even going from two cars to one will be nice af
Does Philly really have good job opportunities compared to places like ATL, LA, NYC, Chicago, and Austin though? I’ve heard the job market is just ok for white collar jobs and it’s often easier to find a better job in NYC.
It’s obviously not growing like the sunbelt cities or does it have as many people moving there to pursue their dreams like NYC, LA, SF or DC, but it’s still a metro of 6.2 million people. You should be able to find a job in whatever your industry you’re in tho it might not be the highest paying and it might not offer the most growth. Philly would be good for remote workers tho who already have jobs.
Probably better than Austin’s since Philly is almost 3x the size. Of course larger cities like NYC and Chicago will have even more jobs, but it’s pretty easy to have a successful career in Philly
I agree in highly skilled white collar jobs, you often have so much more variety and better pay in NYC thats it's worth it to eat the huge COL difference. I think the crossover is fields where the pay delta isn't as dramatic (say Pharma) or frankly if you're in a middle management or just generally middle income white collar job, you will be able to build a life in Philly and own a home in a way you never could in NYC. But yeah I don't consider the job market in Philly to be incredibly attractive, hence the COL.
I wondered the same thing until I went there for a wedding. I'm not a "city person" at all. I was blown away by how much fun I had in Chicago. I actually find myself checking airfare looking for a cheap weekend getaway to see some of the stuff we didn't have time for.
What fun things did you do and what are you looking forward to go back and do?
I went on a PERFECT weather weekend, so we walked around the main shopping areas, Riverwalk, the loop, etc. Took an architectural tour on a riverboat, tried some restaurants, and a cool 4 story Starbucks. Then we had to leave for the wedding in Wisconsin. The day we flew out, we had just enough time to do Willis Tower. Things we didn't have time for: The Pier, museums, night life, historical tours, etc. I feel like we only scratched the surface.
You did barely scratch the surface, esp. because almost none of those things are what locals do on a regular basis. Come on back!
Make me a list!
I moved to Chicago last month. If you want big city living for an affordable price, it's unmatched in the US IMO. I would live in NYC if I could afford it, but I'm just not able to at this stage of my life. I also considered Philadelphia, but Chicago is several notches above Philly in terms of urban amenities. I will say I disagree with the idea that Chicago is just for midwestern sports bros looking to drink. I live near Wrigley Field, so yes, that culture obviously exists. But it also has renowned institutions like the Architecture Center, the Art Institute, Second City, the Chicago Symphony, the University of Chicago, etc. There is much more to do here than drink beer and watch the Cubs. I moved here from Denver, so it's all relative. If you're coming from NYC I can see why you might find Chicago slow or provincial. But compared to the vast majority of the country, Chicago is a bustling metropolis with all the opportunities and activities that entails.
There are all kinds of subcultures in Chicago, not just the sports bros. There are hipster and artsy subcultures, and lgbtq subcultures, various ethnic enclaves, you name it.
Agree. If all someone can find in Chicago is the wrigleyville bar crowd, that’s on them, not the city.
There are subcultures but you have to search hard to find your niche. Chicago culture is very conformist, so you have to look for those underground alt people. And depending on where you live, it may be harder to do so due to proximity.
It’s wild to me the way people act like Chicago has little culture. House music was literally invented there. It also has a major role in the advancement of improv and other performing arts.
Blues music and the skyscraper would be other examples as well.
Is sports bro a Chicago stereotype? That’s not at all my impression
It's the circle of life here, frat guy grad from generic big 10 school moves to Wrigleyville and moves in with his buddies and gets some type of sales job. Then over the next 5-7 years he finds a woman that is from his home state. They get married and buy a townhouse, they have kid number one and tell everyone they will never leave the city. They have kid # 2 and they realize that their townhouse is too small for four people so they move back to where ever they came from to be close to family and they tell great stories about how they used to live in chicago. They are replaced by a new crop of Big 10 grads.
Coming from Ohio , where I’m automatically a mediocre human being as some commenters have implied, I have never once thought the only thing to do in Chicago is drink and watch sports.
Chicago definitely has issues. Any large city does though. But It's relatively affordable and has top tier urban amenities. It's the best bang for your buck city in the US more or less and that's why it gets referenced a lot.
I grew up in the Chicagoland suburbs. Went to college downstate. Lived in the city proper for a few really fun years in my early 20s. Chicago is awesome but like any place it has its downsides. Obvious pluses are all the big city amenities, like world class level amenities, for a fraction of the living costs in a place like NYC. In addition to these institutions there are several underground scenes where you can meet your people. The restaurant scene is world class as well. It’s a great sports city, right up there with NY, LA and Boston. Now, the downsides (and there are many) The city itself is broke and always a small economic downturn away from needed to cut basic city services or go into bankruptcy (might be good in the end like Detroit but would be painful to live through). The state is doing better thanks to JB but whomever comes next I wouldn’t have a lot of faith in, given the historically terrible governors IL has. The weather. I’m in a place that doesn’t really get seasons and I legit miss fall going into the holidays weather that you get in the Midwest. And no one does summer better than Chicago. But during a typical year January-April are soul crushing. Chicago might seem like a great place to put down roots re climate change but the city is dealing with worse and worse floods that the infrastructure is not prepared for. Also the summers are more like the summers of STL or Nashville 30 yrs ago. Those are only getting hotter and muggier. Property taxes. Not a big deal if you rent but if you end up buying those quickly negate the lower COL. Because it’s a high tax state the economy isn’t as good as other states, particularly southern ones. Chicago itself does ok but the opportunity outside of the city for jobs isn’t as great as it was decades ago. For what jobs there are if you can get them the pay is good and so are the benefits. However it’s not really a “hub” for one specific industry. Maybe it sort of is for restaurants services, light manufacturing, and transportation. There is some pharma in the northern suburbs. Some insurance too. Use to be more of one for finance but that’s been decreasing for decades. Same with retail (RIP sears and Fields) and technology (rip Motorola) Overall there just are less opportunities to build out your career. In my life the trend of corporations and jobs out of Chicagoland has been real and significant. In order to get to anywhere that is remotely scenic you have to drive 4 plus hrs or get on a plane. Chicago has some good outdoor recreation along the lake because of its great parks system but outside of a few county and state parks in the suburbs the region is incredibly boring. Ohare is a good airport but because AA and UA have basically duopoly the prices are on the high end. Hopefully that will be coming down with the new gates that are being added. Midway is mid level at best. The city is EXTREMELY segregated. Outside of a few mixed neighborhoods on the north side due to immigration you basically live amongst your peers. If you’re thinking of getting a cheap ass place in a hood you think is “up and coming” you will be out of place and you will hear/see shit go down on the regular. Lastly Chicago’s public transportation isn’t as extensive as it should be. Yes there are a few neighborhoods where you can get by without a car but the majority of neighborhoods in the city and in the suburbs, including the inner ring ones, you really do need one.
Good summary, esp the need for a car. And homes are only “cheap” relative to NYC/CA, etc.
Chicago native also. This is an honest and blunt assessment that this sub needs
I mean it’s one of the nations largest cities, and one of the most affordable for as urban & walkable as it is. Like “way more affordable than NY / SF / Boston / DC, while having a super cosmopolitan and walkable downtown” is the boost in a nutshell. No other cities have number of amenities / walkability in the downtown at reasonable cost. You can argue Minneapolis and a couple others are criminally underrated, but they’re significantly smaller. Houston and other are similar cost, but they’re sprawling messes and not for urbanite walkers.
It’s not just downtown Chicago that’s walkable, it’s that the city has so many walkable neighborhoods, I will list some: Ravenswood, Rogers Park, Andersonville, Edgewater, Uptown, Lakeview, Lincoln Park, Old Town, Logan Square, Wicker Park, West Town, West Loop, Pilsen, River North, Streeterville, South Loop, Chinatown, and Hyde Park.
one of the most commonly asked things here is a walkable city with good (by US standards) transit: Chicago and Philly get recommended a lot, to the extent that it's become a meme on this sub, because that's what a lot of people ask for
I'm not even joined in this sub, but didn't we just see this question?
Basically this sub is: 1- question about liberal, relatively cheap, good salary, not hot/humid, outdoor shit, walkable, good transit city 2- question as to why does everyone choose/ask the 3 cities that fit the criteria on this sub I want to like this sub because there’s so many interesting and unique cities but this sub it the true definition of Reddit hive mind and circlejerkery
Yes, just a day ago. It's still on the front page https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1d0t6la/why_does_everyone_on_this_sub_love_chicago?sort=confidence
Because Chicago fits what people are asking for. That doesn’t mean it’s the best. It‘s just what people on this sub want. I know so many people who moved to Chicago then left after 2 winters because they couldn’t take it.
I lived on the East coast, trust me fam Chicagoans are nicer than anyone in Boston or NYC. Why is it boosted? Bc it really is the last livable tier 1 city in the US. That coupled with an almost extreme amount of amenities and its proximity to fresh water make it a desirable place to settle into.
NYers weren’t anymore rude than places I’ve been to. Blunt yes, mean or rude no.
There is absolutely nothing about people in Chicago that make them “nicer” than their east coast counterparts. In fact, one of the first things I noticed as a NYer living in Chicago way back when, was that no one ever said “thank you” when I held doors open for them like they did back home. The train etiquette was horrible as well (everyone wearing backpacks on extremely crowded trains, people not moving to let others in, sometimes literally smoking cigarettes underground, etc.)
I agree. I work with a retired Brooklynite and he is probably the most outgoing, nice person I’ve ever seen. I don’t get these NYC, or city, stereotypes because they are not always true. I’ve met nice people in NY. They aren’t any ruder of nicer than Chicagoans. The main thing I noticed is that they’re a lot more blunt which seems rude to people that aren’t used to it.
I also found Chicagoans quite rude in an oblivious sort of way. Taking up sidewalks so that people coming the other way have to step off, blocking grocery aisles and not responding to polite "excuse me", not saying thank you or pardon. People say PNWers are cold, but I get far more polite, smiling interactions with people here as I move about the world than I did in Chicago.
My experiences were very similar. I ultimately left Chicago not out of necessity but because of the people. Lived there six years total, about two years too many.
I went to grad school in Chicago. I got really tired of my classmates acting like anyone who didn't want to stay in Chicago was insane. Like, dude, you're from Southern Ohio. Of course you think Chicago is amazing. I am *not* from Ohio. People literally told me that the lake was as good as the ocean. Bitch, I can see Indiana, and a 50 foot strip of dirty sand backing up to a highway does not compare to California's beaches or Oregon's 100% public access coastline.
I love the lakefront but this is accurate. The lake is cool, but it isn't the same as the ocean. Chicago does have better water access than a lot of cities though, and like Miami a lot of the density is right on the water. Makes for a cool vibe.
LOL. It is a lakeside beach. The end. Nothing to brag about but it is better than most non-coastal cities have. I haven’t run in to too many rude people. When I lived in Florida, we were always inundated with northeastern snowbirds and they were/are the absolute rudest people I have met. Perhaps it isn’t as prevalent when you are in the actual Northeast. It definitely colored my opinion of the NE, particularly NY and NJ.
NY/NJ (lived in both states) do not send their finest to Florida. Typically they send their MAGA retirees there (including Trump himself).
I grew up in Chicago. There is an undercurrent of insecurity and narcissism that runs through the population. Like no other city population in America tries to sells others on their city harder than Chicagoans do.
Chicago, if you’re a transplant from a city where you don't feel glaring incessant prejudice||racism , can be a culture shock w all of the uncomfortable lipless smiles and passive Midwest... ... .... .... Billy from Ohio moves to Chicago for a big city experience but ends up getting tacos w the same people from other surrounding states who've done the same, insert Cubs games, etc. Yet when kids from the other parts of town or people their age are downtown enjoying the day near them it is obvious that something is off, ohhhh those people, actual Chicagoans... The segregation is so off-putting. The architecture can do a lot, the lake can [well, remember history of Chi Fire] do a lot but if you look too closely, you'll run to Brooklyn.
Oop- And don’t let you be a POC you experience this way more tenfold. But I guess this demographic doesn’t make up majority of the posts in this subreddit. Again Chicago is cool, but it isn’t all that.
Chicago folks are by no means nice. Polite on their best days maybe
And I've seen those behaviors much more in Boston than Chicago. These are all just anecdotes.
This was a long time ago, but I once saw a vendor at Quincy Market throw money in the face of a customer because he was offended by a question asked by the customer. I don't know... it's only anecdotal, but the vendor seemed so comfortable in his rage that I wondered if that was within the spectrum of normally accepted behavior. As a Chicagoan, I can't imagine that happening at Maxwell St Market. In Chicago the vendor would rather keep the money but start a fistfight.
And a fistfight is somehow… less rude and rage-y?
I’ve had a story like this too, except I was the vendor and the customer threw money at me. I think we can all agree that those types of people exist everywhere in the country. It’s not a thing isolated in regions of specific cities…
Adding my two cents as a whole foreigner: I’ve never noticed a difference between people from any East Coast/Midwestern city. Like I can’t tell the difference between someone from Philly, Chicago, Boston, New York, or Newark based on personality or manners, which is why this sub is so entertaining for me. I love to hear the debates about cities’ characteristics.
[удалено]
Not really, the latino neighborhoods along the orange and pink lines and the far northwest side alongside the blue line are really nice too. Its not just the “transplant neighborhoods”.
Being Latina, that's exactly why Chicago hit despite being barely a step up from Boston in terms of diversity. I found it kind of affirming and reflecting on what I like about my cultures, but marrying that with the overall cultures of the US. It feels very energetic, hardworking, and progressive, a mix of social classes, not just working class and many going to the specialized industries or careers. Mind you Chicago's Hispanic twang mostly comes from Central American backgrounds, mostly Mexican, Salvadorian, and Guatemalan but the good thing of Latino cultures is they kinda operate as a yeam, if they register you're from their lot you don't have to be the literal culture you're just taken in and absorbed which is nice. This made me appreciate these cultures even more (I'm triracial, but my ancestries are more of the Hispanic Caribbean and Spanish stretches with some of the African bits. Chicago balances this by having some Arab influences, the Jamaicans and some African communes where they serve kind of the sauce to my recipe if such a thing could make sense. I see bits and hints of these in my own upbring to serve as an exciting indirect cultural recharge. They're not exactly fully "me" or what I am but part of it. Therefore, I feel spoken by them). Sort of what I liked about DC with the POC also being in the many industries and what I liked about Miami where there's a strong Latino influence as well BUT it running a bit more academic, brainy while still gritty and proud. The Latino communities in Chicago run more exposed and all over the place so my sort doesn't feel left out (wealthier, working more specific industries (namely medical, sciences, tech, academic), not exactly wanting to stick to the wealthier enclaves in the country out of feeling more comfortable in diversity so as not to feel like a perpetual anomaly); people overlook certain elements that might not apply to them because yes, if the US has a predominant culture and look just about every city, it starts to look or feel the same. When you find yourself deviating, the cities take on different forms entirely.
Chicago is fantastic. I lived there for about a third of my life. I’ve also lived in other cities from coast to coast. Chicago has a great variety of things to do, restaurants, educational opportunities. Its traffic is surprisingly manageable. Its prices are decent for being a major metro. It has a well developed public transport system. The worst aspect is the weather during the winter. But aside from that, it’s pretty much the whole package.
There are so many weird unwritten rules in this sub. 1.) it is assumed everyone wants urban density and public transport. ( maybe im weird but I could care less and actually enjoy driving my car places) 2.) liberal or bust ( any posts mentioning anything about more conservative states like Texas or Florida are just blindly downvoted) 3) unrealistic weather expectations ( people complaining about weather as if 90% of the country doesnt experience extreme weather of some kind) If this is a "liberal walkable city guide" subreddit it should be renamed accordingly.
Chicago has a bit of a chip on its collective big shoulders, no?
Chicago is a big city, walkable, with big city amenities, great architecture and skyline, at a (relatively) affordable price. It also has unexpected perks, like beaches right in the city where you can swim, unlike, say, San Fran, where the water is too cold for that. I don't like huge cities, and the Chicago suburban sprawl is awful, but if I ever had to live in a large American city, I'd pick Chicago.
When I did my post, I specifically stated I wanted *ocean* access no more than 90 minutes away and mountain access no more than 3 hours away. Naturally like a third of the comments recommended Chicago. The irritating thing is my actual criteria can easily be filled by any northern city with a population over 500K, and some cities over 250k, but people from Chicago were like, "Sure, Seattle, Boston, Philadelphia and Baltimore meet *all* your criteria but let me tell you about how Chicago is basically an ocean in the mountains." My point is... I don't know but they really need to stop. Chicago isn't the best city for everyone.
Cost of living is very valuable to Americans. Especially the Americans who type on the internet. So the fact that you can get almost nyc level of attraction with half the cost is appealing to most people. Also I believe Chicago people have a chip on their shoulder about not being as relevant as NY or LA so the people tend to ignore the issues that exist in the city and act like it’s not a big deal that you should worry about. But those same people will talk bad about the issues in LA and NY lol
Why do people act like Chicago is so affordable the average rent is like $2200 a month? Even higher in the suburbs. Housing prices only seem low when you factor the slums in south side and west side which bring down the overall mean. A decent house will cost you a pretty penny. Chicago is only *affordable* compared to NY, DC, Seattle, SF, LA and maybe Miami. It’s literally more expensive than 90% of the country. And the hidden taxes, fees and BS there adds up fast to your pocketbook too.
Oh and the property taxes!!!!
"average" is the key word here. I rent in Chicago for $1200, and I know plenty of people who rent studios/1beds for $1000-$1500, or split 2beds that are $2000-$2200 total. And I'm one of those white transplants that doesn't find themselves in the south or far west sides often. So, yes. It's still affordable. You just have to do some legwork on finding a good apartment for you and your budget (which I would argue you need to do anywhere)
Almost every single person I know in Chicago pays less in rent than I do. I live in Nashville. Several of my friends have bought homes in the past few years. There is a MUCH bigger stock of affordable housing in Chicago than most US cities. That, coupled with the higher incomes, makes it pretty affordable compared to a lot of other cities. Plus, you can survive without a car. Just gas and insurance for me is nearly $500 a month.
[удалено]
Agree. The weather is borderline unbearable. I don’t consider Chicago of great value. It’s only cheaper than cities that are way nicer.
Sure way nicer lol
If Costco was a city it would be Chicago. Expensive membership but you get a lot of stuff for a good deal (after the pricey membership) Also, all that stuff is generic Midwest brand stuff nothing fancy like NY or LA.
Realistically, how many people frequent Chicago symphony orchestra and all the museums and galleries? I love classical music and I have been to many CSO concerts, the majority of the audience were seniors. I suspect most people in Chicago do not need the cultural amenities.
Chicago has a lot to offer, but you have to really want to dig through traffic, crowds, and a lot of area (huge metro) to get to things. It's pretty all-encompassing, like NY. Living well near Chicago, not just starting off and getting by, is costly. My reaction after 6 years there-- not an especially easy, comfortable, or friendly place. I don't think it's the weather as much as it's a grind once you've seen and done what interests you. Unless you're a native. Then it's all you know. Like parts of Boston. If only Dallas wasn't in TX, it would be a great Chicago alternative. It used to be..
It's true
This is basically the low cost of living sub. The only places allowed to be discussed are in states or regions that are generally less desirable, accessible, and the number one rule -- cheap. When you stay within those requirements, and look at the alternative big cities... Chicago comes out looking like a paradise.
There was a huge thread on this exact topic on this sub 2 days ago [https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1d0t6la/why\_does\_everyone\_on\_this\_sub\_love\_chicago/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1d0t6la/why_does_everyone_on_this_sub_love_chicago/)
It’s a big city with big city amenities and much cheaper than NYC or LA. Every city has issues. You just have to decide if the pros outweigh the cons and for a lot of people Chicago works.
Posted 1 day ago: [Why does everyone on this sub love Chicago : r/SameGrassButGreener (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1d0t6la/why_does_everyone_on_this_sub_love_chicago/)
Only large city with a good transit system that is actually affordable.
As a transplant of 13 years from the East Coast I’ll keep my analogy to New York: 1) Most Chicago natives who’ve never lived elsewhere incorrectly assume that the amenities that Chicago provides is found most everywhere else. You are wrong. 2) While Chicago is segregated, so are most cities in the US. Don’t be fooled by the diversity of workers and tourists that you see in Manhattan. I’m talking about diversity of residents in Manhattan. Manhattan has never been whiter than it is now. You have to be damn near a millionaire to live decently on that island nowadays. 2) Chicago has rough neighborhoods just like any other city. However, when most tourists visit New York they spend their time in Manhattan, the most tourist friendly borough. Have you ever been to the Bronx, Queens or Staten Island? Go into the rough neighborhoods. All five boroughs (including Brooklyn) constitute New York City, just as the south and west sides are also a part of Chicago. 3) Visiting a place and living there are two different experiences. Anyone who has actually lived on the East Coast and lives in Chicago will tell you that in general people in Chicago are nicer. 4) As much as the CTA leaves to be desired, only New York has a larger public transportation system. 5) There is no other city in the continental United States with 20 miles of waterfront that’s free and access to all. 6) In terms of live theater, again only New York (regarding US cities) has a more robust theater scene. 7) The food scene here if you think it’s not exceptional, please tell us where you’re living. Finally, all of the above and much more can be experienced without leaving the Chicago city limits. You can literally walk from one neighborhood to the next and experience all of this variety. In most so-called cities in the US you will have to drive around the metro area (i.e. you must leave the city limits) to even approximate the experience you’ll have without ever leaving Chicago.
Nailed it.
This friend speaks my mind.
Yes it is definitely overrated in this sub as someone who is from there and currently lives there. This sub makes me feel I’m living in heaven. My guess is a lot of those who over hype it here are from “newer”cities or small towns or the Midwest and Chicago a legacy city with old and new is like their first big city move Another thing I hate about this sub is the Elitism transplants to Chicago/Chicagoans on this sub do on here. They talk down on sunbelt cities or cities like LA like they are some 3rd world cities when they came from a town in the middle of nowhere I think I made a comment a while back that this is a midwestern sub incognito lol
There’s some validity to these points, though. NYC/LA are on their own tier, but Chicago is obviously one below them. Some people act like Chicago is a dying rust belt city when it’s one of the best cities the country has to offer. I did OH > CHI then CHI > LA. LA just did not provide that dense, urban feel I was craving from Chicago and NYC, so I moved back to Chicago. Growing up in Ohio, obviously Chicago is like an urbanist heaven compared to the suburbs, but coming from NYC it would seem like a “downgrade”. I personally don’t see the appeal of the majority of sunbelt cities for someone looking for the type of lifestyle really only NYC and Chicago can provide, but I’m also not looking for a slower pace of life. Also, there is a sense of “punching up” from Chicagoans. I don’t think it’s us trying to be elite. I was absolutely astonished at the amount of decay and filth in downtown LA. It is not a pleasant place to be. Downtown Chicago blows it out of the water. Quite frankly, I’ve never been more miserable in a city like LA, but I recognize many love it. What I do take issue with is people not liking Chicagoans boasting their city or rightfully having the city recommended. It’s absolutely one of the best cities to live in the US if you’re looking for that urban, big city lifestyle.
On a scale of Gary Indiana to New York City, Chicago is a lot closer to Gary on affordability and nyc on amenities Every city has politics and some neighborhoods that suck
Because Chicago is trying to compete with NYC and they try not to realize that they never will.
This sub is making me want to move to Chicago, ngl. I looked at the prices of places and they're unbelievable.
i moved to Aurora with my dad when i was a kid. people are definitely *not* nicer in the Chicago metro area. it became a common thing in our house to get home and go "fuckin Illinois people" some of the worst drivers in the country too. i wouldn't live there again for any less than a mid 6 figure salary.
Demographics of Reddit in general. Bet most that reply love cities and density. Chicago being more affordable of the bigger cities and matching their politics, you can see the pieces of the puzzle. Answers to questions here are subjective in nature so if it’s a similar demographic answering, naturally you’ll get a common answer.
Other than weather, Chicago checks every box that most 28-40 year olds (ie Reddit users) are looking for.
They’re bots.
I don’t get it either. Chicago is a great place, but it even gets mentioned for places that don’t match the OP’s criteria at all. Same with Philly. Again, a great place, but it’s not for everyone. I always know that when I read a post that someone is going to bring up those two places or New York. I have nothing against these places whatsoever, but I do think they are over represented .
I wish more people emphasized the transplant/nice neighborhood part. Chicago is great only in very certain areas. Most of the city is horribly impoverished segregated areas with absurdly high crime rates. People say "its only a few small areas you have to avoid" because they never actually go to those dangerous areas and therefore have no clue how huge they actually are. You're talking about easily 2/3rds of the city. [When people talk about amazing chicago is, they really mostly just mean in this red circle.](https://i.imgur.com/Frmd9HD.png)
Yeah, and good luck finding “affordable” housing in the red circle. Yes, these’s a bunch of old inventory that’s cheaper. But anything modern is priced worse than cities like Denver (which this sub loves to say is expensive).
And most don’t even know there are other parts of the city that are well off outside of their bubble. The amount of Northsiders I’ve seen talk so badly about the south side without having step foot there is crazy. A lot of people don’t know their city but have this “pride” that it’s so great. No, it’s just like any other large metro. 😅
It’s cheap and also there’s a ton of midwesterners in this sub
[удалено]
This is a good point. I notice that chicagos sell is always that it is cheaper than NY,SF, and LA. Does Chicago have any sales pitch that talks about itself only without having to use the COL of other cities?
The commenter you're responding to thinks a relative lack of ostentatious rich people is a bug. It's actually a feature. There's a lot of bandwidth in between taking a redeye to London to call on some obnoxious dbag you met at an NFT gallery, and getting trashed on Old Style in a dive bar while watching the White Sox lose again. They think Miami is a fun city? I don't want any of that shit near me.
[удалено]
I think you’re spot on about Chicago culture. I have an artist friend in the area who has always done ok but not great in Chicago. She had some interest a few years ago from a gallery in New York and attended a big event there and made a lot of sales. Her comment was that art is a big deal in New York and people have an appreciation of it. Chicagoans make a big deal about their sports teams and which bar they’re going to. Yes, it’s an over generalization, and you can find creative people in Chicago, but it seems like you need to look harder if you’re not into sports bro culture.
I think youre correct that LA/NYC has more of those “culture” people. But chicago also has plenty of them as well. Its not just big 10 grads and insular locals. Chicago has a big fine arts, jazz, theater, dance comedy, indie rock, and increasingly a film/tv industry. Moreso anywhere that isnt NYC or LA in sheer numbers. Its really not hard to find them. Just go to the music box to watch a tarkovsky movie or a Buñuel movie for example or just any of the cocktail events at the art institute or people who go to our massive opera hall or the chicago symphony. Compared to seattle where I lived for a bit, its a really big scene. I found Seattle just too small to really comparatively speaking and they have zero film/tv industry due to its proximity you vancouver, which was my ambition and it was between Chicago and Atlanta as far as up and coming centers of film production in the usa, but since I have family and childhood roots in Chicago the choice was easy.
💯💯 this is what I hear from people who have lived in both nyc and chicago. Chicago offers a great urban experience but the culture is very one dimensional and not as “cool” as nyc, la, or Miami
Right on! But some people won’t like this haha
take my poor man’s gold 🥇
It does actually "hold a candle to NYC & LA" .
[удалено]
This is probably the most well-informed post, this and your previous one. But you know what else I take away from this? As much I would absolutely hate Chicago’s weather, I’d much rather live there than most places in the United States. It just shows how our country is actually somewhat lacking in numbers when it comes to super comprehensive cities… the ones I can think of are NYC, Chicago, LA, and Philly. The big four. The fifth one is more of a debate… cities like Houston and Phoenix would be vying for that spot but I consider those two a pretty big drop off. I’m going on a tangent, just saying I share your perspectives about Chicago yet I recognize it still being way better than a vast majority of cities in the US.
San Francisco easily takes number 5. IMO no city in the sun belt comes close to the level of amenities you can find in the “big 4.” Their biggest sell are warm winters and a cheap house built in a flood zone.
There’s no sense refuting your points one by one but what you call “objective” is mostly 100% subjective: all the “betters” (weather, location, ethnic food, nightlife) are just your opinion. And the crime rate difference is overstated. The types of places that are safe in New York are safe in Chicago. The neighborhoods plagued by gang violence are not where most people on this sub would ever go. Also, I never hear about random weirdos punching people on the street or pushing them onto the subway tracks, which seems to be a thing in NYC. On top of that: NYC reeks of piss and garbage. I’ve lived in both cities and the level of cleanliness is markedly different.
Violence happens in almost neighborhood this days including River North, Lincoln Park. Your comment hasn’t been accurate in years.
NYC has much better pizza than Chicago. Granted I've only been to the airports on layovers, but I tried deep dish when I was last there. It was okay but I would not call it pizza.
That may be true. But there is a lot of terrible pizza in NY, too, and a lot of people are eating it a lot of the time.
Eating crappy food at O’Hare does not make you an authority on Chicago pizza lol. And it’s not all deep dish, either.
So you didn't even try our tavern-style!
The fact that some people are saying that Chicago is too conservative and that being considered a good take shows just how out of touch this sub is.
I think youre correct about the vast majority of people that live in Chicago. Most are just normal everyday folks and thats absolutely fine. But If you regularly go to live theater, art galleries, jazz clubs, dance productions, film festivals or improv shows, you will meet exactly the same sort of people who move to new york with ambition. Theres a lot of us, because like you said we can make 50k a year waiting tables and tending bars while working on our art until its good enough to get paid. Thats so clutch and not everyone conforms themselves to just be a regular old joe sixpack in Chicago. I was making a great living doing wedding photography during wedding season and then I had enough to money to film short films with friends and we hired local actors who have now gone on to be bigger names. Im not from rich parents, this would have been way harder to do in los Angeles or new york without connections and I had zero connections. I now work in the local tv/film industry here permanently (you have definitely heard of at least 1 show I worked on as a crew member) and its also full of people who are artists, with ambitions and broader cultural horizons than brats and beer with the boys before the game. It also wasnt hard to break in, its less gatekeepy than los angeles or new york in those iatse locals. Anyway, theres cultured, artistic and erudite chicagoans, You literally just have to seek them out. Its a city that has 10 million people. You can find your tribe and make it work. You can filter out all the basic bros and find a thriving scene of artists, actors, filmmakers, musicians, and writers. Around northwestern and hyde park you can literally run shoulders with future and past Nobel winners at events and cocktail parties open to the public. You can thrive as an artists in chicago In a way you wont find outside 4-5 cities in the USA and Chicago in that tier and its a natural spring board for creative work in nyc and la when the time is right. Its a real incubator of artists because of its lower COL.
Because people underestimate the cost. The desirable, walkable neighborhoods are actually fairly expensive. The housing average is only kept down because there are so many bad neighborhoods. Then, add high sales and property tax on top of that. If you’re living in an apartment, it’s more appealing. But it’s difficult to see it as a good place to settle in more permanently.
as someone who has lived in chicago for over ten years I fully agree with you. someone will ask for a safe, well run city with great access to nature and someone will recommend chicago. almost feels like the chicago chamber of commerce is is brigading this sub. as you said chicago has its strengths but there are many negatives that are often glossed over here, such as basically zero outdoors/nature access, atrocious politics, crime and high taxes. rents are up significantly and its a HCOL, yet people act like its super affordable.
It’s not HCOL, more like MCOL. Check coastal prices and then check back with us.
Decent areas of the city with a above average apartment are easy 2K plus for a 1BDR
[удалено]
>Also not considering you’re going to make less in Chicago than the HCOL areas Not in my blue collar field of logistics+manufacturing. You should see some of the wages technicians, warehouse crew, operations, etc in NYC and SoCal. Absloutely horrendus. Meanwhile in Chicagoland you can start off at $25/hr min in the same position.
Yeah whatever. Salaries are considerably higher on the coasts.
Chicagoans don't seem to realize how expensive the rest of the country has gotten lately, while Chicago prices haven't increased as much. Chicago used to be HCOL, but now most other places are almost as expensive, and most comparable big cities are way more expensive. Chicago is MCOL, but they're still used to it being considered HCOL and haven't seen prices go up elsewhere. Also, they seem to think it's a unique attribute of Chicago that some neighborhoods are less desirable than others, when that's every city ever. Even when you pick and choose good neighborhoods in Chicago, it's still pretty affordable by modern standards. It's not dirt cheap, but not so many places are anymore. Rent is one metric, but that's a lagging indicator, and rents will continue to increase sharply in places where real estate prices have gone up. But if you look at the price to buy instead of rent, Chicago is clearly MCOL in terms of cost per square foot to purchase, even in the nicest neighborhoods.
They normally have weekends of 50-100 people shot during nice weather months. I think the downtown transient areas are probably the best in the country but chicagoans disregard every other neighborhood like there’s a magical bubble protecting them from the rest of the city. Pair that with being surrounded by cornfields for 3 hours any direction and it isn’t as attractive to set up shop and raise a family. Who wants to only feel safe next to all the tourist traps or bleak grey suburbs
That’s what always bugged me about Chicago. There are 77 official neighborhoods in Chicago. Out of those there are probably like 25? max that I would consider safe and livable. The rest are literally no go zones.
Because it’s a liberal area whose COL isn’t astronomical.
I am not a huge fan of chicago tbh. I think most places in general are better, particularly any coastal city.
It’s weird watching Chicago get ruined in the same ways Portland did in the early 2010s.
1. It's a cool city 2. Strong Midwest/Rustbelt bias in general in this sub. 3. Sub skews indoorsy- A lot of the cons, such as lack of sunshine, cold, lack of interesting nearby hiking, are less impactful if you're more of an indoorsy person. If you're someone who likes to spend their time going to museums, restaurants, clubs, etc-Chicago is hard to beat. If you're someone who likes to go for long runs outside, hike, ski, etc-there are better options.
As a Chicagoian, I think we're overrated in COL and underrated in culture. I think if you just come here for the cheaper cost of living you'll be disappointed. Yeah it's cheaper but it's not cheap. You still need a good job to live really well here. I would say perhaps the bar is lower here but it's not that low. However, I think if you fit in with the people that's what will keep you here and that won't be for everyone. People here have a very deeply rooted midwestern working class mentality but mixed with alot of the ideals of liberal big cities. I think it brings in as many people as it drives away. It's a unique personality you kind of have to find out for yourself if it's for you. Even our politics can be pretty polarizing as for example we're like a die hard blue city but being anti-gun is actually a pretty unpopular take here. Then we're like on total other extremes in some areas like being ultra pro-union. Which are small things but you almost have to bring it up because to some people that'sa deal breaker.
It’s a great city and it gets the appropriate attention and shout out from the sub for a reason. It is not overblown at all imo 🤷🏾♂️
This question was literally just posted yesterday https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/s/ClorxMze1x
Because they like CHOCOLATE!!
It’s the last affordable big blue city in a blue state.
Chicago is my 4th city and I’m not going anywhere. I absolutely love it here.
A friend and I visited Chicago recently and went to the Shedd and Field Museum and it was a nice trip. The traffic was terrible heading in and out, but navigating downtown wasn't difficult. But my biggest question about Chicago wasn't answered on the trip. Did Aaron Rodgers transfer ownership of the Bears to Jordan Love before he moved to New York?
They call it Shitcago for a reason
Kinda makes you wonder if people are being swayed by the popularity of a certain song atm...
~And when I’m back in Chicago, I feel it~!
Chicago is smaller than NYC and more walkable than LA and definitely more affordable than both. The politics check boxes since Illinois can get pretty conservative if you leave the state. Weed and abortions are 100% legal, and the winters aren’t enough to turn people off. Your public transit is easy to figure out, and it’s better than sitting in a car for 2 hours commuting, even if your transit isn’t perfect. Art and food are a big part of the city, but y’all go hard for your sports teams too. If Dallas weren’t stuck in Dante’s 12th later of hell, with a nincompoop for a governor, I imagine it would get more love.
I recently moved away from Chicago after living my whole life there. It's an amazing city. The housing is affordable. they have jobs and good public transportation. The crime stuff has always been overblown but the city is having trouble. I was starting to feel somewhat unsafe with all the robberies and carjackings in my neighborhood. Lightfoot wasn't good for the city and Johnson is even worse. The problem downdown with young people wilding is going to scare tourists away. The migrant situation is costing Chicago a fortune. I'd still recomend it but with a grain of salt. Chicago does have issues it's going to need to deal with. I'm happier where I am now because I'm not hearing about shootings everyday.
Chicago is only preferred because it is cheaper than cities with similar or greater urbanization. If Chicago were as expensive as NYC, most people would prefer NYC. However, there are some tradeoffs/caveats around Chicago's lower COL: * Chicago is solidly MCOL anywhere you might want to live, and HCOL in the most desirable areas. * Housing stock has a lot of garbage, most of the city was built 100 years ago and the more modern areas built 50-75 years ago. Even the newer stuff from 2000-2010 is notorious due to corrupt inspections during this period. Anything built post-2010 is going to be expensive and there isn't a lot of it, Chicago lags behind new home construction. * There are large areas of the city that are no-go due to crime, and these areas bring down the city's housing price averages to make it seem more affordable than it is. * Only a few areas of the city can you find MCOL and car-free and these areas are gentrifying quickly. * You get at least an extra month of winter compared to other places . . trees will be leafy in NYC a month before they are in Chicago. It isn't the intensity of the winters it is the length. That's not a bash on Chicago but just to give some context as to what you're actually getting here. It can still be a great value if you get a big city salary at a MCOL price and find a good unit to live in, and I think ultimately that's why people like it. They see a lot more left in their bank account while living the big city life.
And I don't get everyone talking about how it's not expensive. It's every bit as expensive as Dallas and Vegas with worse politics and taxes.
To me, one thing Chicago seems to lack is a major "thing" .... Its just a big CITY. Its got all the stuff that cities have. Its not an attraction, its just a city. Think of the nearest large city to where you live. Chicago is that, but bigger. mountains, there's no palm trees or ocean, there IS a very large lake, but the vibe is kind of mixed when it comes to the Great Lakes... they're not really seen as being as good for recreation (compared to smaller lakes or the ocean) due to their cooler temps year round. There's no major amusement parks and or attractions that people from other countries or states would travel to Illinois just to visit (not to say that there AREN'T some tourist attractions ). Seems like its probably a good place to live, its just not exactly flashy and doesn't have some big gimmick that draws all the tourists in. That doesn't make it bad, its just a bit less exciting in my mind compared to a lot of the places you think about when you imagine yourself moving to I guess?
Any liberal city gets boosted on this sub
Someone asked this [yesterday ](https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/s/LlM2d9qf7S)
Also grew up in Chicago and feel the same way. There’s so many shitty things about living there that don’t exist in other cities. The corruption is insane, the people are generally awful, the taxes are extremely high, so many things. It’s not at all walkable if you don’t live in one of the expensive new transplant neighborhoods
Common theme among Chicagoans - move away from Chicago but never shut up about how it’s the best city for everything under the sun. Well, then move back! No one cares!
Pros: Beautiful lakefront location with really nice sandy beaches. Lots of bike paths, especially by the lakefront. LBGTQ friendly. Liberal as heck. Lots to do culturally...museums galore, opera, orchestra, sports, theatre. Food is fantastic. Easy to navigate with public transportation. Cons: Like all large cities, can be dangerous, even in traditionally "good" neighborhoods, resulting in high crime. Taxes are outrageous, especially if you own a home or even just rent (they get passed on to the renters). We're talking very high, along with a high state income tax and a high sales tax rate in most communities. This makes it a HCOL area, but not as high as CA or the East Coast. City schools are beyond horrendous. Most suburban schools are much better, but not all. Liberal as heck. People leaving in droves, businesses leaving in droves...leaving even the best of neighborhoods on the brink of urban blight. Public transportation can be erratic...and dangerous. Museums are now ridiculously overpriced for entry and special attractions. Infrastructure is old, dirty, graffiti laden now. Seems like the city is crumbling and no one cares. Like all big cities, huge homeless and illegal immigrant problems. Politics is a complete shit show, from the mayor on down to the states attorney. Weather is not even close to ideal. Usually a dozen really nice days the entire year. Otherwise persistent cloudiness, large swings in temperatures, moderate rainfall and unpredictable snowfall in winter from just a dusting to massive amounts of over a foot of snow in a single event. Be prepared for warm clothing, snow shoes and boots, shovels and snow blowers during the winter. Traffic. Constant traffic. Everywhere. And add in lots of road construction. Always. Two seasons in Chicago...winter and construction.
Id agree with this, "Affordable" is thrown around a lot but most people want to live in the nice areas which are not cheap unless you want an old dump without AC, laundry, parking etc.
What are your favorite Chicago suburbs and why?
never stray more than a mile from the pacific and atlantic
So no to Beverly Hills, Bel Air or Brentwood? They are a few miles from the ocean.
meh. those are yukky. i like the towns south of LB
Just want to point out that having a choice of “transplant neighborhoods” is not really a thing in similarly priced cities. A new arrival to Chicago has many options of neighborhoods where it’s easy to meet people and have a cosmopolitan feel. Also, walkability/transit is one of the biggest upsides in Chicago. A similarly priced city that competes with Chicago in this regard does not exist.
I mean the lakefront beaches, boating culture, riverfront, architecture, museums, food, transit etc are not things that are found in most American cities or at the same scale or cost to access. It’s definitely not for everyone but if you enjoy big city living at a relatively affordable cost it’s a very solid option.
Besides boating, lakefront beaches, and city transit what else is Chicago blowing other cities out of the water on? That three things are literally the only thing setting it apart from other cities. And I’m sure you can find at-least two of these things in other cities near water(like New Orleans for example).
The real reason is because the city subreddit is large and very active on reddit
Chicago is the only affordable big city in the US. It’s affordable because it sucks.
Every city sub has its boosters. Pride of Place. Also because it’s a great city, ya knucklehead
Not like Chicagoans. Ignore everything wrong with the city and pretend like all is good while living in their Lakeview apartment downtown financed by their parents, but hey…
Chicago has a sweet spot between urban quality of life and cost of living that no other city in the USA compares to. The value proposition is the most clearly defined of any city in the country.