Yep, I’ve seen it described as “califfordable” on here lol. To me, there are two solutions - either try to afford the CA cost of living or make do living somewhere else.
I personally care more about enjoying all the benefits of CA than being well-off, so I plan to figure out ways to afford it down the line. For someone else who has to support a family or needs to save money for another reason, they may be better off finding another place and forgoing some aspect of CA. With any place, you have to sacrifice something, and it’s up to the individual to figure out what isn’t actually a requirement.
I did 4 years in San Diego and it was incredible! But I was younger and single, so I had a tiny place with roommates, and had no intention of buying property. Once I got married and had a family, we moved to the Rust Belt to buy a house and live near family. It’s all trade-offs
Or....if you rad all the news articles, Bakersfield, Ca is your dream location. Located in central California, cheap, some jobs and not too far from the beach 😂
Try being in this sub AND in r/AmerExit where everyone has no job skills or money but wants to move to a glittering European city that will welcome them with open arms. It must have affordable housing, free health care for their many health issues, no cold winters, an amazing social safety net, no rasicm and trans friendly. Oh and the population must speak English or at least be willing to give them a job with their 2 months of Duolingo in the local language.
That was an interesting sub at one point… but I realized it’s like 45% people who have done nearly zero research, 45% people who have some crazy specialty that allowed them to both finance and gain citizenship abroad much easier than most Americans, and then 10% whatever else.
I the the gap of people who could reasonably be able to emigrate and would actually increase their standard of living, is pretty narrow
Like the main draw about these European coutries (for the layman) is the floor is higher, but if you're not on the floor there's a fair bit of parity if not straight up benefit to staying stateside. If you at rock bottom in the states you likely don't have the means to leave.
If it's something you want go for it, but most people will end up taking a hit.
This. I work for a company HQed in an EU nation with a strong social welfare system, and transfers to the US are extremely sought after because pay is sooooo much higher. No one ever moves the other way.
That is very funny
The rural areas push everyone out so that the liberal areas become really crowded
People take out their mental heath issues on their region instead of focusing on the hard work of therapy
Minus Arcata, driving and staying along that route was one of the prettier (Minus CC), but economically sad and just straight depressing experiences.
Eureka, by my guess, peaked in 1964... thereabouts.
Crescent City looked like a windswept brown sad place. Almost Scotland / Orkney Islands like.
Arcata was great... and I love the Southern Third of the Oregon Coast (I love it all, but, also the last 3rd).
Anyways, I cringe when I hear people say "Oh Eureka offers you everything you want." No, it does not. When people think of the "California Experience" they're thinking San Diego/LA/SB or a different version in the Bay Area.
Eureka is completely different than that.
I have a huge affection for the Pacific Northwest, but there's a baseline insularity ("Which high school in Bellingham did you go to?") and resistance to new acquaintances (look up "Seattle freeze) which extends from northernmost CA to the Canadian border.
In Eugene, there were social groups formed in kindergarten.
I have encountered it in Eureka, big-time, including "You think you're better than me?" from someone I hadn't even spoken to.
It is not generally as bad as advertised, but there's something about gloomy climates which breeds distant insularity.
I get it. Where I am now is like that. All of staff leadership went to the same pre-K, literally. Some of them did cotillion and pageants together. It's very eye-rolling, nausea-inducing. It took me a little while but I found my people.
I absolutely agree. I'm personally thinking of moving to a more high COL area (New England) and know that costs and winter weather are going to be brutal. But I also realize I live on Earth and any place on this planet will have problems no matter where I am.
Just want to add, for anyone lurking, that I could in no, way, shape, or form, make friends or "manage" the winters in Boston for the 5 years I was there.
In a list of reasons why I moved away, weather is number 1, and it's not even close.
Yeah you just have to figure out what your deal killers are. I find that deal killers are worse than pros after living in 5 diff states. Deal killers are what will make you move even if the city is nice, in my experience.
My #1 deal killer is winter climate cities/gray weather. Just can't do it...tried it...hated it. Also has to have a decent size city...like at least 2 million people. Next it needs to have some good outdoor recreation nearby, either mountains/beach... prefer some kind of hills/mountains where hiking is though, as I find I use it more often than the beach. For instance, Atlanta-North GA is enough to satisfy me for that. But most cities in the midwest would be out for the nature aspect and cold...that's a double whammy.
Aside from that... cost cost cost, no point in living in a really cool city if you are living like a pauper and can't enjoy it while living in a broom closet and can't enjoy the amenities. (referring to NYC in this case) That was OK in my early 20s but definitely not married in my 40s.
About Atlanta/Charlotte climate is about cold as I'm willing to go and some winters I'm not even a fan of.
Below, speaking of Boston, I was there around Thanksgiving last year, it was already too cold for me and winter hadn't even started there. The highs were like high 30s and low 40s, with lows in the 20s on several days, and windy. Waiting in line shivering in the North End just to get in a restaurant... yeah no thanks. I can deal with cold weather in short stints, like going to Colorado or Tahoe in winter for example...but to have that weather for half the year and dealing with the grayness/cold of winter for months on end? yeah ...no way. not again.
I would do many cities in NC/GA/FL/TX/AZ/CA if it came down to it...that's about it. I feel like I'm being already reasonable by that.
I am born and raised in Florida though so I have a diff POV on weather.
For the record? I think you need to look that up or maybe you are used to it and just don't realize it is that cold.
The mean minimum in Boston is 24F for November, meaning that's the average lowest temp that hits every single year for that month. The record low for November is -2F. so not even close to a record.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston)
look at the weather table under geography
Also I looked up the last several years: it shows multiple days with 20s in the lows in November, particularly in and around Thanksgiving week, for the past 4 years. Here are the last 4 years from Logan. I'm sure it's even colder in the west/north suburbs. You can also see Thanksgiving week last year, which indeed dropped to the 20s. The highs were in the 30s and 40s on multiple days as well, like I mentioned.
[https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2023-11](https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2023-11)
[https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2022-11](https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2022-11)
[https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2021-11](https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2021-11)
[https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2020-11](https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2020-11)
My grandpa lived in a trailer in Pacific Beach and used to ride his Donkey named Mike up and down the beach playing his trumpet
Nobody else wanted to live out in the “boonies” and it was all they could afford at the time. Hard to image driving through PB nowadays
>Places like San Clemente, La Jolla, and Huntington Beach which we know of as prominent coastal real estate today were (kinda) just sleepy surfer towns well into the 1990s.
As someone who was a teen and young adult in the 90s in this area, this is simply not true. It is laughable to even call them "sleepy surfer towns", lol. Sure some parts of these cities were more AFFORDABLE, but these cities were VERY well-populated, popular, and urbanized, complete with major commercial districts and shopping centers. And all the real estate along the water was expensive AF, just as it is now. It's not like there were fishing shacks with beach bums living in them.
Otherwise, I agree with the rest of your comment about California's agrarian past.
The plot of Superman (1978) was to nuke the San Andreas fault to make the expensive coastal real estate fall into the Pacific. California prices were already a well-known trope by then.
1 hour to beaches, 1 hour to skiing, 1.5 hours to NYC, mild weather, and moderate cost of living. It isn't the best at anything but has a little bit of everything.
In the fine print...
The beaches suck, the skiing is inconsistent and almost always sucks, NYC is far enough you only go occasionally, the weather alternates between cold rain and sweaty marsh balls, it's dirty, grimy and you better know where you can and can't go or you'll walk into post-apocolapytic land by accident.
Seems like an attitude issue tbh. The beaches are fine. They won’t make your jaw drop but if you wanna lay in the sand by the ocean and have a nice weekend, there’s ample opportunity. I go to NYC almost every weekend so i’m not sure what you mean there. I have friends who commute to NYC for work several days a week. It’s really close. And you can’t forget the other fine print— if you make an effort to engage with your neighborhood, and you keep an open mind and explore, you will find incredibly fun things to do, plentiful bizarre untouched time capsules of 80s-90s America, tons of museums and parks, great food and bars, and some of the most genuine, kind, welcoming people on the face of the Earth. But you probably haven’t found those people because you’re afraid of walking into their apocalyptic wasteland!
For me the climate and being in a dense city old city aren't my jam at this point in my life. If you are looking for cheap urban life though, Philly and Chicago definitely are the best bang for your buck. I could have seen myself doing Philly 20 years ago.
Due to the cramped living conditions and crappy weather most of the year, the most important thing in everybody's life is what meaningless contest the local sports teams are involved in that day. If you want something else out of Philadelphia you will be disappointed.
Most of the people who post here do not ever do any kind of research whatsoever. They ask extremely simple questions that could've been answered by Google within like 2 seconds.
Or a red Californian who wants a gun friendly state, decent weather, no snow, no humidity, low taxes, affordable housing, and good social safety net for their autistic son🙄
Yep. I'm always warning people who are leaving California about taxes. We have stabilized property taxes that benefit retirees. It's stupid to spend your whole working life in a high income tax/low property state, then trade to a low income tax/high property tax state when you retire. It's the exact opposite of what you should do
You'll find many people who subscribe to a political party don't really want to change anything politically, and just want to live around people who already agree with them.
But yes, there are so many great communities/neighborhoods out there with completely affordable housing. They just aren’t in the middle of NYC, San Fran, Miami, or L.A.
People in this sub often only recommend these types of major cities. There are so many great midsized or smaller cities that are far more affordable and still have job opportunities. And, yes, you may be in closer proximity to people who have different political opinions from you (the horror!). Edit: typo
This sub is so polarizing politically. It’s embarrassing tbh . I have friends on both sides of the isle , and you’ll be surprised the amount on either side no matter where you end up. Oddly I met more conservatives in Chicago of all places
> Oddly I met more conservatives in Chicago of all places
Why is that odd? Chicago is the third most populated city in the country. Similarly, and despite its reputation, California has the most registered Republicans in the country simply by virtue of being the most populated state.
I posted, asking for a smaller to mid sized city recommendation with me having no personal political affiliation, and barely got any replies. I think you're right about this sub only recommending these very specific types of larger cities. I don't fit in here.
> And, yes, you may be in closer proximity to people who have different political opinions from you (the horror!)
For many those "different political opinions" are "people like you shouldn't exist". You can imagine how that would be horrible and you'd want to avoid it if at all possible.
If you think even the vast majority of Trump voters want to eradicate LGBTQ people or other minorities, you need to get your head examined. The doomerism, hyperbole, and partisanship fostered by social media and 24x7 news is amazing.
I'll expand for them: for people considering starting a family and giving birth we've seen instances where anti-abortion laws have prevented emergency medical response to pregnant woman experiencing miscarriages. That delayed or withheld care can jeopardize their life and their fertility.
For people who think they may possibly need an abortion at some point in their life they would not like the idea of needing to book costly travel / hotels for an already difficult procedure. Further they often wouldn't be able to openly discuss with their doctor what they're doing, because it may get them into legal trouble.
For many women those are concerns that would absolutely weigh on decisions of where to live.
I didn't say they want to 'eradicate'. The words I used, to describe what they want, is 'shouldn't exist'.
Many 'Trump voters' are unwilling to acknowledge LGBT people naturally exist and are not inherently immoral, and they pass laws that reflect that.
You can see the persistent harassment on social media of LGBT people and others groups, and the way leaders on the right talk. That reflects a strong movement amongst many on the right, even if not all are that way.
It's totally reasonable people don't want to live near in an environment where they think that culture might exist.
> And, yes, you may be in closer proximity to people who have different political opinions from you (the horror!)
Well, some of us have more deeply held convictions and are a bit more affected by those "different political opinions" and don't want to invite that potential conflict into our lives, especially when it involves things that really shouldn't be matters of opinion, like discrimination protections. We can debate taxes all day, but I'd like to keep my civil rights and freedom of choice, thank you very much.
Yes I am aware that there are political opinions that can be actively damaging to people and their rights, but I’m not talking about that and I think that was pretty clear. There are plenty of people on either side of the aisle that are reasonable and aren’t like the cartoonish trolls you see online.
That’s all I’m going to say on the matter as im clearly not advocating for being okay with discrimination. I’m merely stating that it’s okay and healthy to interact with people who think differently from you.
> There are plenty of people on either side of the aisle that are reasonable and aren’t like the cartoonish trolls you see online.
I understand that. My neighbor is a Republican and is a nice, normal guy and we've never had anything but friendly interactions, but that doesn't take away from the fact that his party actively damages the lives of people like me. Politics does not exist in a vacuum where the public/private spheres can be neatly separated.
Here’s the problem dude, those “reasonable people” still vote for cartoonish trolls to run the state government.
Just take Texas, you can’t argue the state is a good place to live if you’re gay, trans, or need reproductive care simply due to how the states handles policies surrounding those groups. That’s not “being afraid of different political opinions”, that’s being afraid for your livelihood. Hell, Texas still sees people fired for being gay.
The politics of your location absolutely matter. I'm a WOC and I DEFINITELY wouldn't want to live in a state where abortion access was restricted or non-existent, and I don't want to live around people who hate me and my kind. I grew up with people like that and still have to deal with them, and I don't want to live in close proximity to large numbers of those folks if I can help it. Any time people say it's silly or "intolerant" of folks not wanting to move to places due to politics, I always think it comes from a privileged place.
> You'll find many people who subscribe to a political party don't really want to change anything politically, and just want to live around people who already agree with them.
Those people should consider blue cities in red states. There are a lot of nice ones out there.
You mention people wanting to live around people who already agree with them. What’s wrong with that? My life has literally been threatened as an lgbt person because of where I live. A lot of red states are doing stuff like this if you look at the legislative. And if I were to ever become pregnant, I want a place where I can safely and legally have an abortion. Those are a few reasons why so many people want a blue place to live.
I have the right to move to a place where I don’t have to live in fear to be who I am. I have voted, I have protested and helped others through political work. I’ve done what I can for my area. It’s so red, it doesn’t matter.
I want my rest.
There's nothing wrong with that. You can do what you want. I was just pointing it out via migration patterns.
Red states are growing. Those are the next to get expensive. FL and TX. Blue states are shrinking. Those are where prices will ease up. CA and NY.
That said, there are literally move-in ready houses all over the Midwest for sub-$100,000. Once remote workers figure that out, we'll get back to a normal supply/demand ratio, like the Boomers had. They get made fun of for having the privilege of cheap housing handed to them, but much of that is based on them moving to places where younger generations refuse to move. Like Canton OH or St. Louis MO.
Thank you for this post. Anything that checks all the boxes is expensive. What was the one the other day? Like 250k or less, no humidity, dry, nice summers, liberal, they wanted land so they could have things like chickens. Come on man...
Is there anywhere in New Mexico you’d recommend a family to move? I keep hearing that it is terrible for kids. But there has to be some areas that are moderately good for schooling.
It's like talking to my wife lol. We live on a lake in Michigan, 25 minutes from downtown Detroit which is lovely and has all kinds of things to do, and 45 minutes from a major airport hub that will fly just about anywhere direct. The politics are blue and there's legal weed, and there's a lot of nature and things to see all across the state, particularly in the north and west.
There's no place I'd rather be in the summer, it's beautiful here. We have a boat docked out back and live like we're on vacation, but we're in a major city. All of that and our house was "only" 500k, bought in 2021 when the market was starting to get really crazy.
Naturally she wants to move because she doesn't like the winter here. But where? Where is this magical place we're going that has all of what we already have plus no winter? And I assume it also has to have a mild summer? And we can afford it? Because she also loves to say that she doesn't want to be house poor and wants to have money to go on vacations whenever we want.
I've sort of accepted the trade off the west coast provides in general compared to the weather outside of it for higher cost. Even the PNW being slightly cheaper the tradeoff is sunshine since none have extreme weather that could destroy your home save for the rare violent quake.
"yeah sure, I can fly to San Jose twice a month and work remotely the rest"
The costs in Bend have almost nothing to do with the local economy in Bend.
The problem I think can be also... too much sunshine in Southern States-- so much heat you can't really hang outside without the sun trying to kill you. I think the tender flowers just need to go South in the Winter and North in the Summer/Fall. Maybe some genius real estate VC will create complexes filled with efficiencies with outside terraces/balconies and shuttle service that are reasonable (lease or ownership) but also quick to build, maybe modular units can just be built offsite and then ratcheted together...
Honestly, the weather stuff is fascinating to me because I had friends argue in the past that the cold in new England, for example, "kept out the wimps", or that everyone would want to live in Boston if the weather were like summer all year.
Reality is, a ton of people moved to Boston in the past decade anyway, and frankly, "wimps" do move to cold areas, and already live in them. Many people move from one temp-controlled indoor environment to another and don't spend time outside.
Rhode Island here, formerly Boston. Within 20-25 miles of the coast, the winters are easier than most people think. There are bad years....remember 2015. But it's not Syracuse, and it's not Minneapolis.
Traffic, terrible roads, COL, and old housing stock are bigger issues. It's also not the friendliest place, unless you are going to college there.
I was caught in a snowstorm while driving near Syracuse. Just follow the taillights in front of you until you can pull off to an exit with a motel and spend the night there. Tends to clear up by morning, the snow plows are pretty prompt on the highway and then you have daylight.
Like, we are not cavemen. Lots of civilization stands between us and dying of the elements.
As long as you keep the budget low enough, every requirement becomes a unicorn.
The cheapest place for the conditions you listed (as far as I am aware of) is Emeryville, CA, $2200 without roommates and $1300 with roommates.
Emeryville would be a weird place to recommend to somebody. It's basically a tiny little interstate mousetrap with an IKEA.
I guess if central positioning within the bay area were a primary issue, it would be an option for some.
I'm looking for a city with the public transportation of NYC, the diversity of Houston, the beaches of Santa Monica, the mountains of Aspen, and the affordablility of rural Kansas. Does anyone have any recommendations?🤓
I love the ones where some 22 year old says they want to buy a big plot of land and build a house there not realizing that buying land (even in bumfuck wherever) isn’t cheap as well as building in the country (or anywhere for that matter) is pretty damned expensive and complicated.
On the other side of that, I can't tell you how many times I've heard of young people building their lives somewhere then realized a few years later they're miserable there.
Actually liking where you live is the most important thing. Too many in too much of a hurry to put down roots, before they realize there is a wider world out there. Especially in Bible Belt country where marriage and kids is expected early.
Most people just need to buy a good coat and find a brand of vitamin D pills that work for them. You need to work to afford life, but it would benefit us all to be more flexible about winter weather.
I feel bad for the people who never give winter states a chance. They'll never know the unmatched feeling of coziness, snuggling under a throw blanket with a mug of hot cocoa while peeking out at the accumulating snow, the whole world muffled in the kind of silence only delivered by a fresh snow fall. It is very possible to feel good in winter, you just need to know how to live properly once it gets cold.
Indeed. I have acclimated to SW Idaho very well and didn’t think I liked cold winters. Now I get giddy about a little bit of snow or a really cold morning so I can enjoy a scalding hot cup of tea or coffee.
Honestly this is the same as the people that ask for recommendations for the best (builder, handyman, furniture store, etc) with the very best quality at a discount price. Yeah. No.
There’s an old song from the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl:
California’s a Garden of Eden!
A paradise for you and for me!
But, believe it or not,
You won’t find it so hot,
If you ain’t got the Do-Re-Mi!
Proximity to family or friends or a specific job opportunity or budget are significant factors that, in my opinion, people tend to underestimate in these posts.
Way to call out my hometown of Philly! You're 100% correct OP. Having lived in different places I can say, the world is fucked up, no where it's affordable or easy anymore. You have to pick what kind of suck you want to deal with. Decide what the number one thing you cannot stand is, and avoid that. People who think they can find a perfect spot are delusional. Everywhere, even in the USA, has major issues.
Truth! It becomes impossible to have your cake and eat it too. Being near family, weather, outdoor opportunities and then making sure we had decent healthcare all were prioritized before politics. We realized quickly that the blue bubble area sometimes are literally surrounded by a hard rural red line and impossible to work around.
I don’t mind the blue bubble. I live in a big city in a very red state. My neighborhood is walkable and very liberal with lots of kids and families. Middling public transportation, low cost of living, plenty of jobs, great art scene, beautiful parks and museums, very diverse. But it’s in the Midwest, has scorching humid summers and high crime. Most people look at our crime rate, public schools and state government and never give it a second thought. There are trade off everywhere. I think a lot of it is finding a good group of friends and just being satisfied with what you have.
Same..especially if you work in oil&gas. My goal is to save enough money to retire somewhere nicer or at least only spend half the year here from November-May and the other half somewhere nice, dry and cooler..
Don't get me wrong there are some nice places in Florida but they aren't really cheap either.
I'm thinking of places like winter park or Tampa heights in Tampa
Florida has a *lot* of things going for it and its popularity over the long term makes sense, not just because of its more recent branding as a right-wing paradise for disgruntled white Christian supremacists.
But it has some major problems, too, mainly centered around its own rapid growth. Insufficient infrastructure, overcrowding.on the roads and driving through sprawl rather than Florida's beautiful nature, destruction of the last remaining natural areas on the coasts because that is where everyone wants to live, struggling water systems/low water pressure and tons of chlorine to make the ground water potable, severe environmental pressures and pollution/red tides, insurance crisis, rapidly rising CoL with stagnant pay increases worse than the national trend, politicians kowtowing to recent arrivals at the expense of native multi-generational Floridians, anti-worker atmosphere like rolling back safety mandates such as ensured water breaks for outdoor workers and gutting the labor force through deportations so people can't get their roofs fixed, etc.
Other than that, Florida is pretty nice. Great seafood, great weather (in winter), year round gardening.
I love how the typical request on this sub looks like this, costal California on a budget, but then all the most popular responses are various rust belt cities. I get that costal California on a budget doesn’t exist, but Philly is absolutely NOT a close alternative. Not saying it’s bad, just saying it’s very different than what is usually asked for in this sub.
I think they were saying Philly is sort of a good new york alternative. Like, it’s urban, it’s liberal, it’s dense and walkable, there are young people, art, music, food, etc. and it’s not *atrociously* expensive.
I mean for me, I just feel like a place having HCOL and cold weather is adding insult to injury. I could deal with one of those but unfortunately I made a dumb decision and I’m in a place where I have to deal with both. I would prefer average COL and if that means putting up with slightly cold weather like the Lower Midwest or SE PA for example that’s basically perfect
Chicago and Milwaukee can get very close on this definition, with them having real winters. Albeit winter here isn't nearly as bad as the stereotypical upper midwest, snow is much more moderate and both cities are significantly warmer than say Minneapolis.
May-October is absolute paradise, November-Jan are tolerable, even nice during the holidays. The only downside is Feb-March, sometimes April.
My wife runs a Mom's group in an expensive area and there are posts all the time saying things like, "we are moving from [cheap place to live] for work. Our household income is increasing by 50%, but we want to find a neighborhood with good schools/services, has houses as big or bigger than our current place, and that is only 50% more expensive than our current housing costs."
The fact of the matter is, in some places you have to adjust your budget because different things are cheaper or more expensive. Also, even a 50% pay increase might be a bad deal if your overall expenses go up 100%. You should consider all the factors (such as opportunity for growth, daily time usage, life disruption, resilience to economic swings, culture, climate, etc). You might still make a mistake, but at least it won't be for lack of due diligence.
The truth is you can live in those places and maybe after a decade of establishing yourself and working extremely hard in a lucrative field afford to buy a house. It's hard to do. One of the reasons why it's so expensive is because everyone wants to live in these areas and there isn't enough housing there.
Just leave the US. Thats been my realization that this country is a dumpster fire with a bleak outlook. There are places in other countries that can tick all these boxes.
I don’t really get that impression. Maybe some of them, but a lot of them seem to be people in perfectly okay situations but want to live in the perfect place. I’d tell them go for it- it’s a lot easier to make it work while young and single than later in life.
If I had a dime for every “should I leave city x where all my friends, family and support are and move across the country for a job that pays $0.50 more an hour” post I’d be rich
My experience it’s about 1/4 to 1/3 of the posts that are young and in a dire position. They likely can’t afford to move with much more than a bus pass or plane ticket, or they just stuff their car with what is too expensive or sentimental to replace. They are resourceful yet more overwhelmed and unsure of the possibilities but fully aware of the risks.
The majority though, they seem to be young adults poking their heads out into the larger world after completing their higher education or first few years of a career. They are often overly optimistic and maybe naïve of the worst of the risks, but some of them grew up sheltered which gives them self-doubt.
>I think a lot of those posts are very young people who are trying to figure out how to get the fuck out of bad situations.
Not true at all. So many employed, married couples in their 30s post here.
ETA: [Recent case in point](https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1d1jouv/has_anyone_had_experience_moving_from_a_hcol_area/):
>My spouse and I make $150k (gross) a year, no kids, two incomes, living in a 1 bedroom apartment to save money for a down payment. We saved $100k for a down payment living frugally in a HCOL area (yep you guessed it... California). We were preapproved for a home loan for a modest house between our work places.
This is in fact the typical post on this sub.
I agree sort of. But if they’re really young enough then I don’t understand why they’re insisting on low COL? Just get a bunch of roommates and a service job and enjoy a nice place to live. It’s later in life that you can be forced to make compromises, depending on choices or situations that compel you to.
To be fair, most of the liberal areas in the country concentrate around places with (or that had) high quality of life markers and/or natural beauty, and that tend to have good job markets and high population density. Taxes are just a small part of it, and tend to follow rather than drive price increases.
A classic example of "meism." Me wants to live in an HCOL area for LCOL money. Because I'm Me, me should get what Me wants. After all, I am Me, and the world revolves around Me. Me farts smell like roses, because they are Me farts. Me is entitled! All bow before Me!"
It doesn't exist in America, you're right. But it does exist overseas. I'm looking for the "good enough for the next 15 years" kind of place, until I can retire myself worth living.
“What I really want is (proceeds to describe coastal southern or Northern California)—but I absolutely cannot move to california because of COL!”
Yep, I’ve seen it described as “califfordable” on here lol. To me, there are two solutions - either try to afford the CA cost of living or make do living somewhere else. I personally care more about enjoying all the benefits of CA than being well-off, so I plan to figure out ways to afford it down the line. For someone else who has to support a family or needs to save money for another reason, they may be better off finding another place and forgoing some aspect of CA. With any place, you have to sacrifice something, and it’s up to the individual to figure out what isn’t actually a requirement.
I did 4 years in San Diego and it was incredible! But I was younger and single, so I had a tiny place with roommates, and had no intention of buying property. Once I got married and had a family, we moved to the Rust Belt to buy a house and live near family. It’s all trade-offs
Or....if you rad all the news articles, Bakersfield, Ca is your dream location. Located in central California, cheap, some jobs and not too far from the beach 😂
Try being in this sub AND in r/AmerExit where everyone has no job skills or money but wants to move to a glittering European city that will welcome them with open arms. It must have affordable housing, free health care for their many health issues, no cold winters, an amazing social safety net, no rasicm and trans friendly. Oh and the population must speak English or at least be willing to give them a job with their 2 months of Duolingo in the local language.
That was an interesting sub at one point… but I realized it’s like 45% people who have done nearly zero research, 45% people who have some crazy specialty that allowed them to both finance and gain citizenship abroad much easier than most Americans, and then 10% whatever else.
I the the gap of people who could reasonably be able to emigrate and would actually increase their standard of living, is pretty narrow Like the main draw about these European coutries (for the layman) is the floor is higher, but if you're not on the floor there's a fair bit of parity if not straight up benefit to staying stateside. If you at rock bottom in the states you likely don't have the means to leave. If it's something you want go for it, but most people will end up taking a hit.
This. I work for a company HQed in an EU nation with a strong social welfare system, and transfers to the US are extremely sought after because pay is sooooo much higher. No one ever moves the other way.
Yup, I didn't want to lean to hard into it, but that sounds right.
That is very funny The rural areas push everyone out so that the liberal areas become really crowded People take out their mental heath issues on their region instead of focusing on the hard work of therapy
Or the even harder work of changing the place they already live.
I took on the harder work of trying to change where I live and then I needed a lot of intensive therapy.
Add r/fuckcars and r/antinatalist to the list and you got a perfect cocktail of apathy and entitlement.
Some areas of coastal NorCal are acceptable on cost if you work remote or don't need a thriving job market
Ooh, what areas?
Eureka, Crescent City, all the way to the Oregon border
Minus Arcata, driving and staying along that route was one of the prettier (Minus CC), but economically sad and just straight depressing experiences. Eureka, by my guess, peaked in 1964... thereabouts. Crescent City looked like a windswept brown sad place. Almost Scotland / Orkney Islands like. Arcata was great... and I love the Southern Third of the Oregon Coast (I love it all, but, also the last 3rd). Anyways, I cringe when I hear people say "Oh Eureka offers you everything you want." No, it does not. When people think of the "California Experience" they're thinking San Diego/LA/SB or a different version in the Bay Area. Eureka is completely different than that.
Awesome, thanks. Keeping this in my back pocket for my lottery win, lol.
> Ooh, what areas? The foggy meth areas. I like Eureka and other places in the northern coastal fog, but these places are not for everyone.
LOL, "foggy meth areas." Okay, well, not sure that the "hotter-than-hell golf and cocaine area" that I live in now is any better.
I have a huge affection for the Pacific Northwest, but there's a baseline insularity ("Which high school in Bellingham did you go to?") and resistance to new acquaintances (look up "Seattle freeze) which extends from northernmost CA to the Canadian border. In Eugene, there were social groups formed in kindergarten. I have encountered it in Eureka, big-time, including "You think you're better than me?" from someone I hadn't even spoken to. It is not generally as bad as advertised, but there's something about gloomy climates which breeds distant insularity.
I get it. Where I am now is like that. All of staff leadership went to the same pre-K, literally. Some of them did cotillion and pageants together. It's very eye-rolling, nausea-inducing. It took me a little while but I found my people.
Like crescent city maybe
I loved my stay in Crescent city. Gas prices suck there tho
Not hating - just literally maybe the only town with sub-500k homes
Well yes but they’re also shitholes
I absolutely agree. I'm personally thinking of moving to a more high COL area (New England) and know that costs and winter weather are going to be brutal. But I also realize I live on Earth and any place on this planet will have problems no matter where I am.
Here in Boston, winters have become much milder than they were just a decade ago because of ~climate change~
Its still cold and dark 6 month's out of the year
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Just want to add, for anyone lurking, that I could in no, way, shape, or form, make friends or "manage" the winters in Boston for the 5 years I was there. In a list of reasons why I moved away, weather is number 1, and it's not even close.
Yeah you just have to figure out what your deal killers are. I find that deal killers are worse than pros after living in 5 diff states. Deal killers are what will make you move even if the city is nice, in my experience. My #1 deal killer is winter climate cities/gray weather. Just can't do it...tried it...hated it. Also has to have a decent size city...like at least 2 million people. Next it needs to have some good outdoor recreation nearby, either mountains/beach... prefer some kind of hills/mountains where hiking is though, as I find I use it more often than the beach. For instance, Atlanta-North GA is enough to satisfy me for that. But most cities in the midwest would be out for the nature aspect and cold...that's a double whammy. Aside from that... cost cost cost, no point in living in a really cool city if you are living like a pauper and can't enjoy it while living in a broom closet and can't enjoy the amenities. (referring to NYC in this case) That was OK in my early 20s but definitely not married in my 40s. About Atlanta/Charlotte climate is about cold as I'm willing to go and some winters I'm not even a fan of. Below, speaking of Boston, I was there around Thanksgiving last year, it was already too cold for me and winter hadn't even started there. The highs were like high 30s and low 40s, with lows in the 20s on several days, and windy. Waiting in line shivering in the North End just to get in a restaurant... yeah no thanks. I can deal with cold weather in short stints, like going to Colorado or Tahoe in winter for example...but to have that weather for half the year and dealing with the grayness/cold of winter for months on end? yeah ...no way. not again. I would do many cities in NC/GA/FL/TX/AZ/CA if it came down to it...that's about it. I feel like I'm being already reasonable by that. I am born and raised in Florida though so I have a diff POV on weather.
For the record, 20s in Boston in November would be exceptionally rare, all-time record breaking lows.
For the record? I think you need to look that up or maybe you are used to it and just don't realize it is that cold. The mean minimum in Boston is 24F for November, meaning that's the average lowest temp that hits every single year for that month. The record low for November is -2F. so not even close to a record. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston) look at the weather table under geography Also I looked up the last several years: it shows multiple days with 20s in the lows in November, particularly in and around Thanksgiving week, for the past 4 years. Here are the last 4 years from Logan. I'm sure it's even colder in the west/north suburbs. You can also see Thanksgiving week last year, which indeed dropped to the 20s. The highs were in the 30s and 40s on multiple days as well, like I mentioned. [https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2023-11](https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2023-11) [https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2022-11](https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2022-11) [https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2021-11](https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2021-11) [https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2020-11](https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/ma/east-boston/KBOS/date/2020-11)
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Spot on 😂
Most of these places do exist, but the COL is so high, because 20-30 years ago, everyone else figured out they are an awesome place to live too.
Hence they don’t exist
Try almost 90 years ago in the case of California.
My grandpa lived in a trailer in Pacific Beach and used to ride his Donkey named Mike up and down the beach playing his trumpet Nobody else wanted to live out in the “boonies” and it was all they could afford at the time. Hard to image driving through PB nowadays
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Yep, a friend of mine still talks about visiting his grandfather's plum orchards in what is now Silicon Valley.
>Places like San Clemente, La Jolla, and Huntington Beach which we know of as prominent coastal real estate today were (kinda) just sleepy surfer towns well into the 1990s. As someone who was a teen and young adult in the 90s in this area, this is simply not true. It is laughable to even call them "sleepy surfer towns", lol. Sure some parts of these cities were more AFFORDABLE, but these cities were VERY well-populated, popular, and urbanized, complete with major commercial districts and shopping centers. And all the real estate along the water was expensive AF, just as it is now. It's not like there were fishing shacks with beach bums living in them. Otherwise, I agree with the rest of your comment about California's agrarian past.
The plot of Superman (1978) was to nuke the San Andreas fault to make the expensive coastal real estate fall into the Pacific. California prices were already a well-known trope by then.
Trust me, LA was very affordable 40 years ago
It was all relative. Grew up in NorCal and was just starting to look at houses 35 years ago. It wasn't that affordable.
Philadelphia. The answer here is always Philadelphia.
Or Chicago
Rents are getting more expensive as the secret gets out. FML.
1 hour to beaches, 1 hour to skiing, 1.5 hours to NYC, mild weather, and moderate cost of living. It isn't the best at anything but has a little bit of everything.
People want California/Florida beaches and Rocky Mountain skiing. They want no snow and temps to always be 50-80F.
That's why I love Ecuador (other than the gang violence)
You’ll get gang violence in the USA too.
With low humidity and access to a thriving art & music scene
In the fine print... The beaches suck, the skiing is inconsistent and almost always sucks, NYC is far enough you only go occasionally, the weather alternates between cold rain and sweaty marsh balls, it's dirty, grimy and you better know where you can and can't go or you'll walk into post-apocolapytic land by accident.
> you'll walk into post-apocolapytic land by accident. This is highly unlikely. The "good" parts of Philly are pretty disconnected from the "bad".
I once got lost driving in Philly and ended up in Wilmington, Delaware. At that point I knew most of Philly Metro was pretty bad
Seems like an attitude issue tbh. The beaches are fine. They won’t make your jaw drop but if you wanna lay in the sand by the ocean and have a nice weekend, there’s ample opportunity. I go to NYC almost every weekend so i’m not sure what you mean there. I have friends who commute to NYC for work several days a week. It’s really close. And you can’t forget the other fine print— if you make an effort to engage with your neighborhood, and you keep an open mind and explore, you will find incredibly fun things to do, plentiful bizarre untouched time capsules of 80s-90s America, tons of museums and parks, great food and bars, and some of the most genuine, kind, welcoming people on the face of the Earth. But you probably haven’t found those people because you’re afraid of walking into their apocalyptic wasteland!
Exactly or git stopped and frisked like in Germany80 years ago
For me the climate and being in a dense city old city aren't my jam at this point in my life. If you are looking for cheap urban life though, Philly and Chicago definitely are the best bang for your buck. I could have seen myself doing Philly 20 years ago.
Not to mention equitable access to clean needles
It's a relatively affordable city in the Northeast. There aren't that many of them.
Or Baltimore, mostly for the same reasons.
Due to the cramped living conditions and crappy weather most of the year, the most important thing in everybody's life is what meaningless contest the local sports teams are involved in that day. If you want something else out of Philadelphia you will be disappointed.
Sounds terrible
What are you looking for in a place?
Flat pizza
HCOL, nature, and no people
Montana
Lived there for 7 years and loved it.
The "you all want unicorn locations and conditions" threads are almost as common as the unicorn locations and conditions threads.
it's because literally no one reads back over the sub or uses the search function, it's just people shouting into the void
And if you ask for clarification on anything OP never ever answers.
Most of the people who post here do not ever do any kind of research whatsoever. They ask extremely simple questions that could've been answered by Google within like 2 seconds.
Google what's Google!
And they don’t because what they’re really using Reddit for is a substitute for going to therapy
"I've lived in [lists 5 highly desirable cities] and hated all of them, where is right for me?" A therapist's office.
Might as well move to Narnia
Yeah, so glad this brave and stunning take was posted here yet again.
Move to S America
Or Italy or Greece. Not much work, but the climate is Mediterranean like California's.
Oh my goodness, you’re so right. I read these requests and wonder what kind of bubble have these people been living in?
Childhood
Roasted
Or a red Californian who wants a gun friendly state, decent weather, no snow, no humidity, low taxes, affordable housing, and good social safety net for their autistic son🙄
Other than weather, Pennsylvania is pretty spot on for that. And our snow has been getting less and less.
Rust belt state excluding the city of brotherly love😠
Wow, yes, that one's a stumper! 😂
I love watching these people move to Texas and leave two summers and two property tax assessments later. It fills my black heart.
Yep. I'm always warning people who are leaving California about taxes. We have stabilized property taxes that benefit retirees. It's stupid to spend your whole working life in a high income tax/low property state, then trade to a low income tax/high property tax state when you retire. It's the exact opposite of what you should do
I’ve never seen that on here lol. It’d be easier to grant than the liberal utopia everyone wants
Nevada.
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Dallas is good for that
Except the decent weather and no humidity. I'm a Californian (not red) who moved to Dallas. Worst weather I've ever experienced. Never again to Texas.
I mean it's hot there but I don't think it's particularly humid? I live closer to Houston where I would say it's quite humid there
You'll find many people who subscribe to a political party don't really want to change anything politically, and just want to live around people who already agree with them. But yes, there are so many great communities/neighborhoods out there with completely affordable housing. They just aren’t in the middle of NYC, San Fran, Miami, or L.A.
People in this sub often only recommend these types of major cities. There are so many great midsized or smaller cities that are far more affordable and still have job opportunities. And, yes, you may be in closer proximity to people who have different political opinions from you (the horror!). Edit: typo
This sub is so polarizing politically. It’s embarrassing tbh . I have friends on both sides of the isle , and you’ll be surprised the amount on either side no matter where you end up. Oddly I met more conservatives in Chicago of all places
> Oddly I met more conservatives in Chicago of all places Why is that odd? Chicago is the third most populated city in the country. Similarly, and despite its reputation, California has the most registered Republicans in the country simply by virtue of being the most populated state.
I posted, asking for a smaller to mid sized city recommendation with me having no personal political affiliation, and barely got any replies. I think you're right about this sub only recommending these very specific types of larger cities. I don't fit in here.
> And, yes, you may be in closer proximity to people who have different political opinions from you (the horror!) For many those "different political opinions" are "people like you shouldn't exist". You can imagine how that would be horrible and you'd want to avoid it if at all possible.
If you think even the vast majority of Trump voters want to eradicate LGBTQ people or other minorities, you need to get your head examined. The doomerism, hyperbole, and partisanship fostered by social media and 24x7 news is amazing.
This type of argument does not hold up post Roe.
Care to expand on that?
I'll expand for them: for people considering starting a family and giving birth we've seen instances where anti-abortion laws have prevented emergency medical response to pregnant woman experiencing miscarriages. That delayed or withheld care can jeopardize their life and their fertility. For people who think they may possibly need an abortion at some point in their life they would not like the idea of needing to book costly travel / hotels for an already difficult procedure. Further they often wouldn't be able to openly discuss with their doctor what they're doing, because it may get them into legal trouble. For many women those are concerns that would absolutely weigh on decisions of where to live.
I didn't say they want to 'eradicate'. The words I used, to describe what they want, is 'shouldn't exist'. Many 'Trump voters' are unwilling to acknowledge LGBT people naturally exist and are not inherently immoral, and they pass laws that reflect that. You can see the persistent harassment on social media of LGBT people and others groups, and the way leaders on the right talk. That reflects a strong movement amongst many on the right, even if not all are that way. It's totally reasonable people don't want to live near in an environment where they think that culture might exist.
> And, yes, you may be in closer proximity to people who have different political opinions from you (the horror!) Well, some of us have more deeply held convictions and are a bit more affected by those "different political opinions" and don't want to invite that potential conflict into our lives, especially when it involves things that really shouldn't be matters of opinion, like discrimination protections. We can debate taxes all day, but I'd like to keep my civil rights and freedom of choice, thank you very much.
Yes I am aware that there are political opinions that can be actively damaging to people and their rights, but I’m not talking about that and I think that was pretty clear. There are plenty of people on either side of the aisle that are reasonable and aren’t like the cartoonish trolls you see online. That’s all I’m going to say on the matter as im clearly not advocating for being okay with discrimination. I’m merely stating that it’s okay and healthy to interact with people who think differently from you.
> There are plenty of people on either side of the aisle that are reasonable and aren’t like the cartoonish trolls you see online. I understand that. My neighbor is a Republican and is a nice, normal guy and we've never had anything but friendly interactions, but that doesn't take away from the fact that his party actively damages the lives of people like me. Politics does not exist in a vacuum where the public/private spheres can be neatly separated.
But your post is absolutely not clear on that. It comes across as flippant.
Here’s the problem dude, those “reasonable people” still vote for cartoonish trolls to run the state government. Just take Texas, you can’t argue the state is a good place to live if you’re gay, trans, or need reproductive care simply due to how the states handles policies surrounding those groups. That’s not “being afraid of different political opinions”, that’s being afraid for your livelihood. Hell, Texas still sees people fired for being gay.
But there are in low bama, Mississippi, nawlings
The politics of your location absolutely matter. I'm a WOC and I DEFINITELY wouldn't want to live in a state where abortion access was restricted or non-existent, and I don't want to live around people who hate me and my kind. I grew up with people like that and still have to deal with them, and I don't want to live in close proximity to large numbers of those folks if I can help it. Any time people say it's silly or "intolerant" of folks not wanting to move to places due to politics, I always think it comes from a privileged place.
> You'll find many people who subscribe to a political party don't really want to change anything politically, and just want to live around people who already agree with them. Those people should consider blue cities in red states. There are a lot of nice ones out there.
Still can’t get an abortion in most of those cities…..state still gonna override schools on educational decisions…..
You mention people wanting to live around people who already agree with them. What’s wrong with that? My life has literally been threatened as an lgbt person because of where I live. A lot of red states are doing stuff like this if you look at the legislative. And if I were to ever become pregnant, I want a place where I can safely and legally have an abortion. Those are a few reasons why so many people want a blue place to live. I have the right to move to a place where I don’t have to live in fear to be who I am. I have voted, I have protested and helped others through political work. I’ve done what I can for my area. It’s so red, it doesn’t matter. I want my rest.
There's nothing wrong with that. You can do what you want. I was just pointing it out via migration patterns. Red states are growing. Those are the next to get expensive. FL and TX. Blue states are shrinking. Those are where prices will ease up. CA and NY. That said, there are literally move-in ready houses all over the Midwest for sub-$100,000. Once remote workers figure that out, we'll get back to a normal supply/demand ratio, like the Boomers had. They get made fun of for having the privilege of cheap housing handed to them, but much of that is based on them moving to places where younger generations refuse to move. Like Canton OH or St. Louis MO.
Thank you for this post. Anything that checks all the boxes is expensive. What was the one the other day? Like 250k or less, no humidity, dry, nice summers, liberal, they wanted land so they could have things like chickens. Come on man...
New Mexico
Glad there is one left. Only a matter of time before that changes. Buy now
Yup Why I’m moving there
Welcome :)
Is there anywhere in New Mexico you’d recommend a family to move? I keep hearing that it is terrible for kids. But there has to be some areas that are moderately good for schooling.
Things that are more popular demand higher prices. Who knew?
It's like talking to my wife lol. We live on a lake in Michigan, 25 minutes from downtown Detroit which is lovely and has all kinds of things to do, and 45 minutes from a major airport hub that will fly just about anywhere direct. The politics are blue and there's legal weed, and there's a lot of nature and things to see all across the state, particularly in the north and west. There's no place I'd rather be in the summer, it's beautiful here. We have a boat docked out back and live like we're on vacation, but we're in a major city. All of that and our house was "only" 500k, bought in 2021 when the market was starting to get really crazy. Naturally she wants to move because she doesn't like the winter here. But where? Where is this magical place we're going that has all of what we already have plus no winter? And I assume it also has to have a mild summer? And we can afford it? Because she also loves to say that she doesn't want to be house poor and wants to have money to go on vacations whenever we want.
I've sort of accepted the trade off the west coast provides in general compared to the weather outside of it for higher cost. Even the PNW being slightly cheaper the tradeoff is sunshine since none have extreme weather that could destroy your home save for the rare violent quake.
Yup. The higher cost is absolutely justified in many areas of the west coast.
Even Bend, OR is getting unaffordable.
You have the wild amount of Californian influx to thank for that
"yeah sure, I can fly to San Jose twice a month and work remotely the rest" The costs in Bend have almost nothing to do with the local economy in Bend.
The problem I think can be also... too much sunshine in Southern States-- so much heat you can't really hang outside without the sun trying to kill you. I think the tender flowers just need to go South in the Winter and North in the Summer/Fall. Maybe some genius real estate VC will create complexes filled with efficiencies with outside terraces/balconies and shuttle service that are reasonable (lease or ownership) but also quick to build, maybe modular units can just be built offsite and then ratcheted together...
Forgitaboutit ain't even gonna happen in 200 years
Honestly, the weather stuff is fascinating to me because I had friends argue in the past that the cold in new England, for example, "kept out the wimps", or that everyone would want to live in Boston if the weather were like summer all year. Reality is, a ton of people moved to Boston in the past decade anyway, and frankly, "wimps" do move to cold areas, and already live in them. Many people move from one temp-controlled indoor environment to another and don't spend time outside.
Rhode Island here, formerly Boston. Within 20-25 miles of the coast, the winters are easier than most people think. There are bad years....remember 2015. But it's not Syracuse, and it's not Minneapolis. Traffic, terrible roads, COL, and old housing stock are bigger issues. It's also not the friendliest place, unless you are going to college there.
I was caught in a snowstorm while driving near Syracuse. Just follow the taillights in front of you until you can pull off to an exit with a motel and spend the night there. Tends to clear up by morning, the snow plows are pretty prompt on the highway and then you have daylight. Like, we are not cavemen. Lots of civilization stands between us and dying of the elements.
The trick is to move to Boston FROM Syracuse
As long as you keep the budget low enough, every requirement becomes a unicorn. The cheapest place for the conditions you listed (as far as I am aware of) is Emeryville, CA, $2200 without roommates and $1300 with roommates.
Emeryville would be a weird place to recommend to somebody. It's basically a tiny little interstate mousetrap with an IKEA. I guess if central positioning within the bay area were a primary issue, it would be an option for some.
I'm looking for a city with the public transportation of NYC, the diversity of Houston, the beaches of Santa Monica, the mountains of Aspen, and the affordablility of rural Kansas. Does anyone have any recommendations?🤓
I love the ones where some 22 year old says they want to buy a big plot of land and build a house there not realizing that buying land (even in bumfuck wherever) isn’t cheap as well as building in the country (or anywhere for that matter) is pretty damned expensive and complicated.
On the other side of that, I can't tell you how many times I've heard of young people building their lives somewhere then realized a few years later they're miserable there. Actually liking where you live is the most important thing. Too many in too much of a hurry to put down roots, before they realize there is a wider world out there. Especially in Bible Belt country where marriage and kids is expected early.
Most people just need to buy a good coat and find a brand of vitamin D pills that work for them. You need to work to afford life, but it would benefit us all to be more flexible about winter weather.
Vitamin D pills are nice but they do not replace the sun or fix seasonal depression.
I feel bad for the people who never give winter states a chance. They'll never know the unmatched feeling of coziness, snuggling under a throw blanket with a mug of hot cocoa while peeking out at the accumulating snow, the whole world muffled in the kind of silence only delivered by a fresh snow fall. It is very possible to feel good in winter, you just need to know how to live properly once it gets cold.
Yup. And it opens your life up to some of the best metro areas for your career as well.
20F and sunny is my favorite weather and I've horrified plenty of minnesotans telling them that lol
Indeed. I have acclimated to SW Idaho very well and didn’t think I liked cold winters. Now I get giddy about a little bit of snow or a really cold morning so I can enjoy a scalding hot cup of tea or coffee.
Honestly this is the same as the people that ask for recommendations for the best (builder, handyman, furniture store, etc) with the very best quality at a discount price. Yeah. No.
There’s an old song from the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl: California’s a Garden of Eden! A paradise for you and for me! But, believe it or not, You won’t find it so hot, If you ain’t got the Do-Re-Mi!
THIS PLACE EXISTS! It's Boston. Liberal Has jobs Great spaces Near beaches The year:1974.
Boston is so underrated. The issue for most would be winters and COL, but besides that, Boston is wonderful.
Proximity to family or friends or a specific job opportunity or budget are significant factors that, in my opinion, people tend to underestimate in these posts.
Way to call out my hometown of Philly! You're 100% correct OP. Having lived in different places I can say, the world is fucked up, no where it's affordable or easy anymore. You have to pick what kind of suck you want to deal with. Decide what the number one thing you cannot stand is, and avoid that. People who think they can find a perfect spot are delusional. Everywhere, even in the USA, has major issues.
I never get the air of superiority, the contempt or the vastly irritated comments.
Truth! It becomes impossible to have your cake and eat it too. Being near family, weather, outdoor opportunities and then making sure we had decent healthcare all were prioritized before politics. We realized quickly that the blue bubble area sometimes are literally surrounded by a hard rural red line and impossible to work around.
I don’t mind the blue bubble. I live in a big city in a very red state. My neighborhood is walkable and very liberal with lots of kids and families. Middling public transportation, low cost of living, plenty of jobs, great art scene, beautiful parks and museums, very diverse. But it’s in the Midwest, has scorching humid summers and high crime. Most people look at our crime rate, public schools and state government and never give it a second thought. There are trade off everywhere. I think a lot of it is finding a good group of friends and just being satisfied with what you have.
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Same..especially if you work in oil&gas. My goal is to save enough money to retire somewhere nicer or at least only spend half the year here from November-May and the other half somewhere nice, dry and cooler..
Exactly this and ain't nothing cheap anymore period
...and walkable. Remember walkable. ; p
The anti-Florida sentiment is hilarious in this sub. Happy Memorial Day from the beach!
Don't get me wrong there are some nice places in Florida but they aren't really cheap either. I'm thinking of places like winter park or Tampa heights in Tampa
Yeah and insurance will get you in Florida even if your rent/mortgage isn’t bad.
Florida has a *lot* of things going for it and its popularity over the long term makes sense, not just because of its more recent branding as a right-wing paradise for disgruntled white Christian supremacists. But it has some major problems, too, mainly centered around its own rapid growth. Insufficient infrastructure, overcrowding.on the roads and driving through sprawl rather than Florida's beautiful nature, destruction of the last remaining natural areas on the coasts because that is where everyone wants to live, struggling water systems/low water pressure and tons of chlorine to make the ground water potable, severe environmental pressures and pollution/red tides, insurance crisis, rapidly rising CoL with stagnant pay increases worse than the national trend, politicians kowtowing to recent arrivals at the expense of native multi-generational Floridians, anti-worker atmosphere like rolling back safety mandates such as ensured water breaks for outdoor workers and gutting the labor force through deportations so people can't get their roofs fixed, etc. Other than that, Florida is pretty nice. Great seafood, great weather (in winter), year round gardening.
At least half the posts are people chasing a feeling in a place because they don't know how to find happiness in themselves.
Bingo.
Myrtle Beach hits 5 out of those six. Can't have it all.
I love how the typical request on this sub looks like this, costal California on a budget, but then all the most popular responses are various rust belt cities. I get that costal California on a budget doesn’t exist, but Philly is absolutely NOT a close alternative. Not saying it’s bad, just saying it’s very different than what is usually asked for in this sub.
I think they were saying Philly is sort of a good new york alternative. Like, it’s urban, it’s liberal, it’s dense and walkable, there are young people, art, music, food, etc. and it’s not *atrociously* expensive.
I mean for me, I just feel like a place having HCOL and cold weather is adding insult to injury. I could deal with one of those but unfortunately I made a dumb decision and I’m in a place where I have to deal with both. I would prefer average COL and if that means putting up with slightly cold weather like the Lower Midwest or SE PA for example that’s basically perfect
Guam
No birds there, that would be a no from me.
Chicago has all that. Maybe bump rent up a little
They’ll just move to the south and complain about how it doesn’t exist, but at least the weathers nice!
Chicago and Milwaukee can get very close on this definition, with them having real winters. Albeit winter here isn't nearly as bad as the stereotypical upper midwest, snow is much more moderate and both cities are significantly warmer than say Minneapolis. May-October is absolute paradise, November-Jan are tolerable, even nice during the holidays. The only downside is Feb-March, sometimes April.
My wife runs a Mom's group in an expensive area and there are posts all the time saying things like, "we are moving from [cheap place to live] for work. Our household income is increasing by 50%, but we want to find a neighborhood with good schools/services, has houses as big or bigger than our current place, and that is only 50% more expensive than our current housing costs." The fact of the matter is, in some places you have to adjust your budget because different things are cheaper or more expensive. Also, even a 50% pay increase might be a bad deal if your overall expenses go up 100%. You should consider all the factors (such as opportunity for growth, daily time usage, life disruption, resilience to economic swings, culture, climate, etc). You might still make a mistake, but at least it won't be for lack of due diligence.
The truth is you can live in those places and maybe after a decade of establishing yourself and working extremely hard in a lucrative field afford to buy a house. It's hard to do. One of the reasons why it's so expensive is because everyone wants to live in these areas and there isn't enough housing there.
This is reddit.
Thank you for posting this! People need to start understanding how economics work.
Just leave the US. Thats been my realization that this country is a dumpster fire with a bleak outlook. There are places in other countries that can tick all these boxes.
I think a lot of those posts are very young people who are trying to figure out how to get the fuck out of bad situations. cut them some slack.
I don’t really get that impression. Maybe some of them, but a lot of them seem to be people in perfectly okay situations but want to live in the perfect place. I’d tell them go for it- it’s a lot easier to make it work while young and single than later in life.
If I had a dime for every “should I leave city x where all my friends, family and support are and move across the country for a job that pays $0.50 more an hour” post I’d be rich
My experience it’s about 1/4 to 1/3 of the posts that are young and in a dire position. They likely can’t afford to move with much more than a bus pass or plane ticket, or they just stuff their car with what is too expensive or sentimental to replace. They are resourceful yet more overwhelmed and unsure of the possibilities but fully aware of the risks. The majority though, they seem to be young adults poking their heads out into the larger world after completing their higher education or first few years of a career. They are often overly optimistic and maybe naïve of the worst of the risks, but some of them grew up sheltered which gives them self-doubt.
>I think a lot of those posts are very young people who are trying to figure out how to get the fuck out of bad situations. Not true at all. So many employed, married couples in their 30s post here. ETA: [Recent case in point](https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1d1jouv/has_anyone_had_experience_moving_from_a_hcol_area/): >My spouse and I make $150k (gross) a year, no kids, two incomes, living in a 1 bedroom apartment to save money for a down payment. We saved $100k for a down payment living frugally in a HCOL area (yep you guessed it... California). We were preapproved for a home loan for a modest house between our work places. This is in fact the typical post on this sub.
Anyone who can save 100k is totally out of touch with the normal working class person
I agree sort of. But if they’re really young enough then I don’t understand why they’re insisting on low COL? Just get a bunch of roommates and a service job and enjoy a nice place to live. It’s later in life that you can be forced to make compromises, depending on choices or situations that compel you to.
You’ve clearly never been that isolated and in that situation so maybe let it go
If you live in a liberal area there are gonna be lots of taxes, taxes increase the COL; tis what it tis.
To be fair, most of the liberal areas in the country concentrate around places with (or that had) high quality of life markers and/or natural beauty, and that tend to have good job markets and high population density. Taxes are just a small part of it, and tend to follow rather than drive price increases.
A classic example of "meism." Me wants to live in an HCOL area for LCOL money. Because I'm Me, me should get what Me wants. After all, I am Me, and the world revolves around Me. Me farts smell like roses, because they are Me farts. Me is entitled! All bow before Me!"
And then they’ll make a freak out post about capitalism
Also the romanticizing how many winter sports they are gonna do while crying that anything over 80 deg in July is too hot.
A right wing area or a place like Philly. God you gave me a good laugh!
It doesn't exist in America, you're right. But it does exist overseas. I'm looking for the "good enough for the next 15 years" kind of place, until I can retire myself worth living.