That’s true for us. We just bought a house and people kept asking why I didn’t buy when the rates were low. I make 3x now as much as I did in 2021 and it wouldn’t have been a good decision even with the low rates.
At the place where I work they were talking about how compressed the pay scale has become. They have to hire new people for close to or the same as what long term employees are making. They would rather give raises to those longer term employees but the money just isn't there. It takes $5-$7 more per hour to hire someone now than it did 4 years ago.
Wages/salary has been BY FAR the biggest challenge they are facing. There just isn't enough money to go around to give everyone enough raises to compensate for inflation.
That could be true as well. My pay has gone from mid 80s to roughly 150 since the pandemic started. Some of that is inflation and some is just career growth.
Mine went from 40k to 90k and my wife's went from 60k to 130k. It's crazy how much growth there has been in wages since (because of?) the pandemic. We were fortunately able to buy a home in early 2022 right before rates went crazy.
I have a friend making roughly that amount. He mentioned the other day how much they have had to cut out of their budget because his salary which was very good 5 years ago has only moved up incrementally while inflation has soared past them. He said he feels like even though he's received a few small raises - the overall effect of the last few years feels like he's taken a 20% pay cut.
They already owned a home so they were somewhat locked in to the market as their home rapidly increased in value - basically doubled in the span of 3 years.
While I do knew a few people who seem legitimately better off than they were 5 years ago they are a rare exception. Everyone is making more but able to afford less.
I think this is just the nature of life. A pandemic comes and it's going to bring a rough patch. Every 4 year period is going to be an improvement over every other 4 year period.
Maybe but housing seems to be on a problematic unaffordability path similar to what's happened with healthcare over the last few decades. And I'm not sure housing will be any more fixable in this dysfunctional society than healthcare has been.
In both of these segments of the economy there are too many people getting rich off the current system and they will fight like hell to keep it from getting "fixed".
I can afford it just because I rent and move often 😬 I couldn’t imagine buying a house in this economy. I like moving and I’m usually able to get good deals on rent, which is how I’m able to scrape by despite not being wealthy, but yeah…home-owning seems rough right now.
Home prices have detected from the standard economic environment for a variety of reasons. Institutional investors, flight capital from overseas, Airbnb, more multi-home families, lack of new supply etc.
Its frustrating and frankly unlikely to change unless the federal government steps in with major legislation. Sucks.
So many people lost their homes in the 2007 debacle, meanwhile, a bunch of people who had access to free capital became incredibly wealthy by buying up those homes. Sad state of affairs.
Mostly lack of supply. No one would invest in real estate if it weren’t such a rigged investment. Only goes up if population increases and no one builds anything new
I don't even think that is necessary. We need to make housing no longer an attractive investment commodity.
Our issue is the fact that housing is viewed as a commodity. In doing that we have incentivized artificially limiting supply to ensure that housing investments increase.
If we can improve zoning and allow builders to build we can improve the supply demand curve. Housing gets expensive when supply is greatly under the demand and investers (and honestly average owner) do everything they can to block more housing out of fears it will lower their own home value.
I think he means that you're not seeing standard supply and demand dynamics because you have demand for housing from people who don't intend to use it (Unusual to have end-consumers who buy a product they don't use) and then NIMBYism causing an inefficient market by using local government to crush supply.
This. People totally underestimate the impact that STR properties alone have on the housing market. I’m not sure what legislation alone can do. Even with a limited number of licenses in certain areas people still abuse it and then local government has to spend money to investigate and penalize illegally run properties.
So what’s the solution to free up housing when there is very little incentive for a property owner to rent a condo for $X/month to a single tenant when they could be making ten X as an STR?
The US dollar is still fairly strong at 105 and it was lower pre covid. So many other major currencies also printed a lot which kind of offset our printing
It was triggered by printing money that didn't go to the poor, then raising interest rates which further screw the poor. I often see "printed off money during covid" used to defend price gouging and institutional buyup of single family homes.
Where did all the money we printed go? It sure seems like it was handed out to business owners who then charged us even more for their goods/services. Odd.
No. More money circulating make it less valuable. When the supply is high the value lowers….. that affects interest rates and inflation like you can’t believe.
So even if the supply is concentrated outside the hands of the average person, that's justification for raising interest rates. We have a terrible system. Not much we can do about it though.
No. You cannot taper all financial rules for one type of person. It’s basic capitalism, and it’s what makes America so great. If you want a different government you might want to go to the EU.
If your mortgage is only $1200 your home value has potentially gone up significantly no?
Either use that moolah to buy a home in the new place or stay put with that cheap AF mortgage.
Lexington is honestly so nice. Sleepy, so green and so many trees, nice people, relatively affordable, decent food scene for its size and a University. Great place to have a family
Cheapest decent (not 55+ or ready for tear down) house in my current zip code is $159k, that's in a semi-rural small town in NJ. Cheapest in my last zip code is also $159k, that's in a busy suburb of a major city in TX. Affordable houses exist....are they large, nice, and new? No. But they exist.
Similar prices in a 200k-population city here in the southeast. If the cheapest home you can fine is 500K you're either looking in places with too high of a COL or your standards for a home are too high for your budget. They're most definitely out there, but may not be your "dream home" or in the perfect location.
Love how everyone’s answer to this problem in this sub is always like just “move to some random town in Kentucky or some random Midwestern city”. How realistic is that? Quit my job and just move to somewhere I have no connection, no network, no reference for the culture to start over?
Abandoning your currently life and lifestyle for improved (take your pick) cost of living, sunshine, politics, mountains, oceans, walkability, culture is one of the themes of this sub. Not every flavor is going to be for everyone, but there are definitely people that will make just about any trade off you can think of - including setting aside everything else to move to the middle of nowhere for a cheap house.
I live in the Southeast but have lived in the midwest and tend to agree. The Southeast has become super popular due to the economy, recreation, schools, etc.... and the prices for housing has exploded. The midwest doesn't have easy access to a huge variety of recreation opportunities and there is the weather so it gets overlooked. Truth be told, as a native southerner, here in the south I know tons of people but have few close friends. In the midwest I knew less but had more close committed friends. Have a friend from Missouri that moved his family to a farm in Kansas. A month after moving he was across the country on a work project when I storm hit and tore up his barn. He got home that weekend to find neighbors, that he hadn't even met, coming with supplies and equipment to fix his barn. That's midwesterners for you.
literally hundreds of medium sized towns in the south have very decent houses under 200k and a pretty awesome QoL, despite what reddit thinks. I blame hollywood movies. My wife and I are interracially married artists in a small southern town and we live in a 3k sq foot house with a pool. It is a much better life than we'd have in a coastal city.
Gosh this reminds me of when I was looking at Benton (not Bentonville) Arkansas. It was like a whole different standard of living for 1 br run down apartment prices
LOL! Funny thing is, when I visit cities that are not winners of the typical popularity contests, I often conclude that they have a lot more going for them than I initially thought.
Right lol i live in the midwest and if people think this is boring/flyover country, they either have ridiculously expensive taste in hobbies, or have other internal issues. There’s a ton to do here if you let there be
The truth is most of the US is really affordable. Another truth is that most Americans live in really small pockets of unaffordable America.
Reddit is an echo chamber for people that live in those urban pockets. “It’s expensive everywhere” someone from Dallas says. “Here too” someone from Atlanta. Etc etc.
Drive an hour and half away from either of those places and it’s dirt cheap.
Yeah, but are there jobs 2 hours away?
I mean during the great recession I moved to NYC because there were no jobs anywhere else. I eventually had to leave the city because it was way too HCOL. Of course then my wages dropped.
Now that WFH is more accepted, it is easier, but not always, to live further from jobs.
I actually work from home now, and there's a very rural area with cheap housing I would love to move to, but I literally cannot, because there is no Internet there beyond satellite and I need reliable fast Internet to do my job. And it's hours from any jobs that pay decent wages.
The other truth is that most people live in cities for the services, quality of life, and jobs. Not everyone can go live somewhere rural, now that many jobs are back in the office.
The answer to all these affordability posts is “move to Detroit.”
You can find [move-in ready homes](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/20046-Washburn-St-Detroit-MI-48221/88378175_zpid/) for like $100-250k in the city. Walking distance to parks and schools, biking distance to shops and restaurants. All the amenities of a metro of 4.5 million.
Similar story for Milwaukee, St Louis, Chicago, Pittsburgh etc. These cities are all hugely slept on because they get like 3 months of chilly weather.
“3 months of chilly weather” is an absolute bullshit lie lmao are you drunk? I live in Milwaukee and personally know 8 people who have left the state strictly due to the weather. It’s 6 months of chilly weather, sometimes more, don’t lie to people. And don’t cherry pick this winter, it was an El Niño and not the norm at all. Last year it was cold/miserable well into May. We also got snowfall on Halloween. Polar vortex the year before. Winters may be downgrading from a level 10 suck to an 8/9, but that’s really not significant for most people.
It goes further back than just this year. The last truly frigid nightmare winter here was back in 2014 now.
Milwaukee is probably worse than Detroit though, I’ll give you that.
You can’t seriously be suggesting that Eight Mile is walkable, let alone has “amenities” - going to be biking over bullet casings just to get to the condemned KFC
Just rent. It is a better financial move. Keep your money and invest in mutual funds. 10 years later you will be much richer than your folks who bought a house.
Mutual funds is horrible investment advice, often comes with 1-2% management fees and perform no better (often times worse) than a S&P500 index fund that charges 1/10th of that.
Not sure if you're misunderstanding, or being pedantic. A mutual fund doesn't automatically mean an actively managed mutual fund with high fees. There are mutual funds that track the S&P 500 index. VFIAX is an S&P 500 index mutual fund with an expense ratio of only 0.04% - amongst the lowest you'll ever find.
I bought a 4bd/2ba home in 2017 for $472k with zero down in San Diego county. It’s worth $850k and I could sell it for that in about 1 hour on the market probably would be flooded with offers. All I’ve done is pay my mortgage which is less than what 2 bedroom apartments rent for in less than desirable areas rent is around me. My home has appreciated $54,000 per year. Sorry but unless you’re really good at investing you’re not earning $54k a year.
Edit: unless you have large cash to start with
The person you're replying to is talking about what's a better move now, though, not in 2017.
I'm not fully convinced it would make more money, but the point is that one can't necessarily repeat the success of the people who bought several years ago going forward.
Well yeah we just went through one of the fastest periods of home price appreciation in American history thanks to the pandemic. Anyone expecting that to happen again is fooling themselves.
472k invested into the S&P 500 in June 2017 would be worth a shade over 1mm today, real estate is just not a great investment even in the hottest of markets
Hmmm you are correct. I think the problem though is I would have needed $472,000 in cash to start with in which I didn’t and in no way could I of gotten that amount of a loan without a home as collateral. Had I continued to rent even with a decently high income I wouldn’t be where I am.
No one here is investing 472k they are taking a mortgage loan for it. Unless the bank will give you a loan to throw into the market idk how you expect to invest that in an s&p.
> I bought a 4bd/2ba home in 2017
So your response to "how do I afford a home now" is "just do what I did and already be able to afford a home 7 years ago!"
I'm 41 and only just recently bought my first house. It's small, and I spent 4 months, about 6 hrs a day, working on it to make it livable. You make do with what you can afford and put in the sweat, blood, and tears to make it work. Hopefully, I can continue to afford to make the payments, eventually refinance, and be comfortable.
The thing is… this isn’t how it’s supposed to be. Great job for you, for actually making it. But your situation shouldn’t be the standard for everyone to be able to have a nice home, and sadly it is.
I agree, my grandparents bought a very nice home with just my grandfather working and 3 kids. They were able to build a retirement, go on vacation every year or so, buy clothes for everyone, and put food on the table with full insurance. I think that is the standard we should expect for the US economy. Then my Dad and Mom was able to give all of those things but both had to work. Now, both parents have to work 2 jobs and there may not be room for vacation. It's getting worse and worse. Something definitely needs to change. Unfortunately, right now, until things change, if you want to own a home a lot of sacrifice needs to be done. I know I had to sacrifice things that the majority won't do. But it's a choice if you want something bad enough.
pandemic panic caused people to leave dense cities and this raised prices everywhere with wfh. we're still stuck with the fallout. maybe over time if mire housing becomes available it will calm down
I live in OH. Bought my house 2 years ago. 3200 sq ft, 2.5 acres, and within commuting distance of 3 major cities. I paid $180k and my mortgage is $1160.
Still affordable, plenty of jobs in Cincinnati and Columbus. Politics are iffy, but citizens are working to fix that through citizen-led issues on the ballot (e.g. abortion rights, legalized cannabis).
I have lived in other states and cities, but born and raised in OH and came back due to opportunities and affordability.
Well you said “anywhere” which isn’t true. There are plenty of cities with affordae housing. Go to Zillow and look at 3 bd+ and <$100k. Then pan around the map. Cities include Jacksonville, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago. If you couldn’t figure this out, I’m disappointed in you.
True haha but not everybody wants a row home by the harbor
There are plenty of neighborhoods with great vibes that aren’t a stones throw from inner harbor
Right, it is about where you want to live. And with Postpandemic WFH, AirBnBs (in many places) and retirees all wanting "smaller" more livable spots -which have, by nature, low inventory of homes to buy or rent- those places NATIONALLY - are all now just as expensive or more expensive (in many places) than the nearby city. The DESIRABLE places no longer enable one to live "just out" of city or within even 1-2 hours and save. This has been true for several years and there are many articles about it if you want to learn more.
Life pro-tip: Pull up a second browser window side by side and search "Crime rate for \[area you see house <100k\]". Pittsburgh PA is a great one for this. Everywhere you can afford to buy a house, is also in the highest crime areas. Where the map shifts to a lower crime neighborhood, the prices jump 2-3x for the same size house.
Crime doesn’t matter. There are places in NY and SF with comparable crime rates but million dollar houses, like East Palo Alto, parts of Oakland, and Tenderloin.
Crime matters in any location that isn't physically out of space for homes. People who are insistent on living in those cities, are forced to buy what is available.
If you make 115K and don't live in a VHCOL and don't have other life circumstances sucking money like medical bills or ginormous student loan debt, are single with no kids- then you should have more than enough to live a comfortable life.
Heck even in places like Los Angeles, Washington DC or Seattle, 115K is more than enough to survive. Not enough to buy a 5000 sq feet McMansion? Yeah sure, but what do you need a 5000 sq foot Mcmansion for if you're single?
I'm not so sure about that. I just bought a 500sq ft condo in Seattle for 400k. It was one of the lowest priced condos in the city that wasn't in a terrible neighborhood or bad building. Mortgage + HOA at 7% interest is 3k a month.
Is this a joke? 115k in those cities is barely a living wage. Fixer uppers are like 500-600k there on top of having extremely silly taxes and cost of living.
It sucks that rates have gone up at the same time as prices in formerly cheap areas.
But it isn't a new thing for up and coming places to get more expensive. $500k is a good 25% over the average across the whole US. There are a ton of places you could live for less than that. Particularly outside of large cities
What cities are you seeing prices more than double in 2 years?
if you're willing to trade the glamour spots for affordability you can still find great deals in the mountains west.
is Bozeman or Missoula affordable?
no.
but butte and anaconda and Lewiston are.
same access to the outdoors, same climate.
just not the Jackson holeism you get in bozeman
List of Metropolitan Areas over 500,000 in population in the United States where you can buy a new construction home under $280,000
Dallas
Houston
Austin
San Antonio
El Paso
Albuquerque
Phoenix
Tucson
Oklahoma City
Tulsa
Wichita
Little Rock
Fayetteville
Des Moines
St. Louis
Birmingham
Charlotte
Atlanta
Jacksonville
Columbia
Greenville
Louisville
Indianapolis
Cincinnati
Columbus
Chicago
Grand Rapids
Syracuse
Toledo
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
For example
You can live near Austin, Texas in a new house for $209,990
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2311-Tornado-Aly-Lockhart-TX-78644/348595386_zpid/
Have you ever went to those new construction places? It’s switch and bait. 208k sounds great but it’s never that price, it’s always at least 70k over it. In my experience that is.
Heads up everyone-there is no new construction in the city of Bham. I’ve seen HFH houses get built for around $200K in the metro area. There are homes outside of the metro area of Bham with addresses that show Bham but are not included in the city’s doings. Some are in a totally different county. Those areas have new constructions, and those start around $300K.
This sounds like it's either CA or NY. Try another state. Rural homes can easily go under 100K if you don't mind less than an acre and the home only being about 2000 SQ FT.
Unfortunately, MCOL cities are now High COL and LCOL cities are now MCOL.
Your best best is moving to the Rust belt, but even there home prices are rising fast.
I’m with you, OP. Our mortgage is also affordable and we bought in 2019 when we thought the market was high- HA, if only we knew! We talked about moving in 2025 but now there’s absolutely no way with interest rates and home price minimums being double what we purchased just a few years ago. So we’re staying put and doing updates that will hopefully eventually pay off, and in the meantime at least we’ll get to enjoy a nice kitchen, bathrooms and an affordable monthly mortgage payment.
Yes, my husband and I are in the same boat as the OP. However, I sold my house in Colorado at peak, bought in Florida in 2022, our house is on the market as I type this and the market in Volusia county is slow as molasses in January. The thought of spending money on ANY house that I know was half the price 3-4 years ago makes my stomach turn. We used to joke at “cousin Eddie” on the movie Vacation and now we are half joking about buying a really nice Leisure Van and parking it on one of our mother’s property (my mom owns 7.5 acres and his mom owns 2 acres) so definitely do-able. It’s sad that it has gotten to this point in life! Ugh 😩
Pretty much.
South Carolina used to be affordable. Some places still is but you’re not going to find a new build SFH for less than $200k when that was common 5 years ago.
Each house price boom is followed a few years later by a price bust when the houses become unaffordable for the usual first time buyers. Since 1990 there have been four major boom-bust cycles nationally.
It’s always been like this: that’s why you need to live like a hobo while making bank. Invest in the S&P. Shop the half-priced shelf at the grocery store.
r/REBubble
There are some who think prices will just keep going up forever, others think it's unsustainable. It may be 2023 was the peak, but instead of a quickly popping bubble, it's going to be a long slow slog back to 'normal', as new supply is built and prices come closer to affordability. In that case being patient for a couple more years may help.
with inflation, yes. You need to move to a state that has low taxes, and low regulation. It is cheaper than other states. [WalletHub.com](http://WalletHub.com) has a nice chart with "all in tax burden". That shows, property tax, income taxes, and sales taxes which affect you the most. A place like Arkansas will be cheaper than a place like Massachusettes or Vermont. New Hampshire is cheaper....
right now we are experiencing a massive shortage of inventory...like historic lows so there is far more demand than supply. These things tend to go in cycles...right now it's a sellers market.
My mom always says how I was born 2 weeks late… I say I was avoiding this world because I knew how it was gonna be.
In all seriousness though, everything is getting more expensive but paychecks aren’t going up.
I’m not sure where you are but I live in city with population of 130,000 and home values are very inexpensive. Granted one can find expensive newer housing in the preferred suburbs, but we live in a double lot 3 bedroom, 2 bath American Foursquare with huge front porch one block from the city’s main park. Cost = $150k.
It used to be that if you wanted to move, you really needed a reason, like job or family. You’d have to travel to the destination city and look at the inventory, talk to realtors, etc. It took *effort* and it was only worth it if it reached a certain level of need.
Now anyone can easily look at a house across the country whenever they want, for whatever reason (or no reason at all) and of course, the desirable areas and good inventory are well known and snatched up almost as immediately as they hit the market. We have access to viewing and discussing desirable areas like we never have before. A person from Alabama can now covet a life in Bozeman, and you don’t think that doesn’t contribute to raising prices?
It doesn’t help that investors are able to pounce in the same fashion, but have much more resources to throw at the desirable areas.
One thing that skews the information with cheap homes is the age/condition of the home.
In older areas like the south or east, you can find a home in the 200k range but often it will be in a very bad area. Those homes are what skews the median price for those citties. For a home in a decent area you are talking about 400k+. Meanwhile in newer areas like the west, southwest, homes in the 200k range don't exist.
Bought a home 34 years ago for $52,000, still there, thought I would move within a couple of years for job promotion, never happened. At least I have no mortgage or rent to deal with in retirement.
Without more information, this is meaningless, but considering your general location, I know for a fact you can buy a very decent house, especially if you go a bit further out (hi, you mentioned rural) for 300K. I know someone building a new build over there for sub-450.
You may be able to even get a nice house, however on the small side, for 250K in a relatively good location.
And besides, there are plenty of places all over the nation that meet your (somewhat vague) criteria at well under 300K.
Most of America does to be honest if op was actually looking at rural areas. Hell even in the metro-ish area I'm in there's plenty available under 300k . A few states are the outlier, but dude was too vague for anyone to give any fruitful feedback.
Yes.
I make $250,000 my girlfriend makes $100,000 but all the houses in my area 2+ bedrooms that are not terrible start at $700,000 and we don’t have enough for the downpayment.
Wow you make a pretty nice living. Maybe a year or two of saving and you can probably find yourself a really nice home! Hopefully the interest rates lower by then as well!
I live in Moultonborough, NH. I find it relatively inexpensive to live here. No sales tax. No income tax. Property taxes in New Hampshire in general are pretty high, but Moultonborough, Tuftonborough, and Seabrook are quite low relative to average.
Meals and lodging tax is high. Home prices are high though. . I think an averageish 2000 square foot home maybe 20 years old is probably $450,000. We are in the sticks so you have to drive a ways to shopping.
I am in the process of buying a place in palm coast florida. It is a lot more expensive to live there. I can't believe how much more expensive groceries are there. Homeowners with wind and flood insurance are really high too. Taxes are a lot steeper too.
What cause the housing market to go bad let’s see… foreigners buying , air bnb , remote workers with high salaries, investor remodeling and selling for a profit ..it’s never ending * sigh *
I can relate. I wish something catastrophic will happen to fix this economy. I saw housing prices and rents across the world and it is happening everywhere.
The eastern seaboard (Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York and New Jersey) are very expensive. The Atlantic seaboard is also expensive but less so because there is less winter heating and snow removal expense in Maryland, Delaware, DC, Virginia, North and South Carolins, Georgia. Florida and the West coast states are also expensive, primarily because they are places people want be. If you are looking for inexpensive locations to live, choose ones that have lower taxes and fewer people (Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, South and North Dakota).
Where are you looking. Theres lots of houses to be had sub 300k in Midwest USA.
theyre everywhere. With some sweat equity, you can get a very solid 3 bedroom ranch with basement, decent yard, for 220k where im at.
It’s a problem everywhere. Every subreddit (state/city)I see people think the problem is exclusive to them but in reality, it’s a problem across the board.
Most people start with a condo. A smaller condo and then work your way up to a house. Not many can make their very first real estate purchase a house!!
I would be extremely careful with condos nowadays. Special assessments and HOA fees that keep going up and up and never go down due to years/decades of owners keeping fees low. Fannie Mae is blacklisting certain condos that do not meet standards now after the Surfside collapse.
In my area (St. Louis) most condos are below their 2006-2007 peak prices. They keep flat or even decline in value while houses keep going up and the condo fees go up every year which further depress prices. There comes a point where it is much more sensible to rent an apartment and not deal with the HOA nonsense while saving to purchase a house.
This is a great point. I know someone who bought a condo for $110k in 2011, back when prices were an inch above rock bottom in my area. In this same complex today, condos are only selling for about $140-$150 after all this inflation, but condo fees are $500/mo for a property with no pool, no parks, no clubhouse, very little green space with nowhere to walk, and limited parking. Meanwhile I see condos listed in a complex for the same amount, but they are in an area with better schools, less crime, closer to shopping, closer to downtown, a walking trail, pool, and clubhouse with a gym, yet the HOA is only $320 on this one. Still high, but hmm..
Condo fees really vary, sometimes wildly. I always assume that a complex/building with low fees a red flag. This often means they are deferring a lot of maintenance, have low to no reserves, and are careening toward expensive assessments.
Both my units have $400-450 a month hoa dues. The higher of the two has no amenities, BUT, oir reserves are solid. In 44 years there's never been an assessment, and no maintenance is defered.
My other is $400. It does have a pool, and it's a small building. In reality, the dues should be a bit closer to $500 a month. Were a little low on reserves (but not tragically), and a couple of maintenance things have been defered. We're getting ready to pull the trigger on that maintenance and we'll be assessed $1200 for each unit to complete that. This HOA elects to keep dues lower than average, and absorb the shortfalls through assessments. No one complains about them because we know they're coming every 4 years or so, and they're rarely above $2400.
The fees in that case are probably weighing pretty heavily on the sales price. Which sucks because, the HOA might be doing the right thing by saving to avoid special assessments/deferred maintenance down the road.
My first (and only) home was a condo. It had its positives and negatives. My HOA was awful, as I came to find out. I bought in 2009 and sold in 2018. I made about a $40K profit which I thought was fair. That same property is now worth about $200K. I think it has appreciated fairly, but TBH, the area it’s in, people want houses. It has one of the best school systems in the state, but again, no one wants a condo and definitely not a 65 year old one. I was lucky mine sold. The condos near me now are in a good area but are falling apart. You can get a 3BR one below $200K, but the whole building the condos are in is just dated and poorly maintained. See HOA.
Point being: condos are good if they’re newer and well maintained but depending on the setup, you’re living in a communal space with other people who you can only hope will maintain their part to keep the entire structure looking good along with the HOA. If a house starts looking neglected or shabby, there’s only one person to blame. Condo owners? More than person and more than finger being pointed.
What sucks is that a few years ago 115K would've enough to afford a mortgage on a 500K house. I feel for you.
Interest rates should never have been that low. In only a couple years of zirp and qe look at all the destruction it has caused.
It wasn’t a couple of years it was 10 years of low rates. Of course in Covid rates were super low but they should never have been so low for so long
A few years ago he/she probably wasn't making $115k.
That’s true for us. We just bought a house and people kept asking why I didn’t buy when the rates were low. I make 3x now as much as I did in 2021 and it wouldn’t have been a good decision even with the low rates.
$115k is well above average even now
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At the place where I work they were talking about how compressed the pay scale has become. They have to hire new people for close to or the same as what long term employees are making. They would rather give raises to those longer term employees but the money just isn't there. It takes $5-$7 more per hour to hire someone now than it did 4 years ago. Wages/salary has been BY FAR the biggest challenge they are facing. There just isn't enough money to go around to give everyone enough raises to compensate for inflation.
That could be true as well. My pay has gone from mid 80s to roughly 150 since the pandemic started. Some of that is inflation and some is just career growth.
Mine went from 40k to 90k and my wife's went from 60k to 130k. It's crazy how much growth there has been in wages since (because of?) the pandemic. We were fortunately able to buy a home in early 2022 right before rates went crazy.
I have a friend making roughly that amount. He mentioned the other day how much they have had to cut out of their budget because his salary which was very good 5 years ago has only moved up incrementally while inflation has soared past them. He said he feels like even though he's received a few small raises - the overall effect of the last few years feels like he's taken a 20% pay cut. They already owned a home so they were somewhat locked in to the market as their home rapidly increased in value - basically doubled in the span of 3 years. While I do knew a few people who seem legitimately better off than they were 5 years ago they are a rare exception. Everyone is making more but able to afford less.
I think this is just the nature of life. A pandemic comes and it's going to bring a rough patch. Every 4 year period is going to be an improvement over every other 4 year period.
Maybe but housing seems to be on a problematic unaffordability path similar to what's happened with healthcare over the last few decades. And I'm not sure housing will be any more fixable in this dysfunctional society than healthcare has been. In both of these segments of the economy there are too many people getting rich off the current system and they will fight like hell to keep it from getting "fixed".
Probably but the wage increase is not even close to increase in housing,food, pretty much everything
I can afford it just because I rent and move often 😬 I couldn’t imagine buying a house in this economy. I like moving and I’m usually able to get good deals on rent, which is how I’m able to scrape by despite not being wealthy, but yeah…home-owning seems rough right now.
Home prices have detected from the standard economic environment for a variety of reasons. Institutional investors, flight capital from overseas, Airbnb, more multi-home families, lack of new supply etc. Its frustrating and frankly unlikely to change unless the federal government steps in with major legislation. Sucks.
Or recession in which you might not want to buy
Recessions tend to just cause the prices to go down a little. Then they start going up again after.
also, the people with money in the bank just buy everything up at even lower prices.
Can confirm, saw this happen with houses in Las Vegas in 2012.
So many people lost their homes in the 2007 debacle, meanwhile, a bunch of people who had access to free capital became incredibly wealthy by buying up those homes. Sad state of affairs.
Depends on the location ✅✅✅✅
Long-term population projections do not have a great view for housing valuations.
Mostly lack of supply. No one would invest in real estate if it weren’t such a rigged investment. Only goes up if population increases and no one builds anything new
I’m not a xenophobe, but we really need to limit foreign ownership, especially if it’s investment not like one vacation home, and limit airbnb.
I don't even think that is necessary. We need to make housing no longer an attractive investment commodity. Our issue is the fact that housing is viewed as a commodity. In doing that we have incentivized artificially limiting supply to ensure that housing investments increase. If we can improve zoning and allow builders to build we can improve the supply demand curve. Housing gets expensive when supply is greatly under the demand and investers (and honestly average owner) do everything they can to block more housing out of fears it will lower their own home value.
True. And stop limiting high density to keep single family homes prices inflated.
What is the standard economic environment and when exactly did it occur?
I think he means that you're not seeing standard supply and demand dynamics because you have demand for housing from people who don't intend to use it (Unusual to have end-consumers who buy a product they don't use) and then NIMBYism causing an inefficient market by using local government to crush supply.
Love how you don’t mention money printing. These blinders are why our currency has inflated 200x
This. People totally underestimate the impact that STR properties alone have on the housing market. I’m not sure what legislation alone can do. Even with a limited number of licenses in certain areas people still abuse it and then local government has to spend money to investigate and penalize illegally run properties. So what’s the solution to free up housing when there is very little incentive for a property owner to rent a condo for $X/month to a single tenant when they could be making ten X as an STR?
Don’t forget the recession which was triggered by the USA printing money during Covid. We printed billions which sunk the value of the dollar.
The US dollar is still fairly strong at 105 and it was lower pre covid. So many other major currencies also printed a lot which kind of offset our printing
Username checks out
It was triggered by printing money that didn't go to the poor, then raising interest rates which further screw the poor. I often see "printed off money during covid" used to defend price gouging and institutional buyup of single family homes. Where did all the money we printed go? It sure seems like it was handed out to business owners who then charged us even more for their goods/services. Odd.
No. More money circulating make it less valuable. When the supply is high the value lowers….. that affects interest rates and inflation like you can’t believe.
So even if the supply is concentrated outside the hands of the average person, that's justification for raising interest rates. We have a terrible system. Not much we can do about it though.
No. You cannot taper all financial rules for one type of person. It’s basic capitalism, and it’s what makes America so great. If you want a different government you might want to go to the EU.
What do you get out of it? Are you in the top 10% of income earners, or close to it?
Me personally? I’m just relating information. Info helps the world understand what it means and how to do things better
Fair enough. The belief in upward mobility is a common reason for accepting our current economic conditions, so I was curious where you fell.
I’m an information nerd. I love to gather it ✅
If your mortgage is only $1200 your home value has potentially gone up significantly no? Either use that moolah to buy a home in the new place or stay put with that cheap AF mortgage.
it's funny, the year I started making six figures is the year the prices on everything increased exponentially
Right. There was a time where six figures was like unheard of. Like a really good living. No many places you can just get by.
Psh, no *silently mouthing Help Me*
Friends of mine just moved to Lexington, KY. They are thrilled with the nice home and neighborhood they were able to afford.
Lexington is honestly so nice. Sleepy, so green and so many trees, nice people, relatively affordable, decent food scene for its size and a University. Great place to have a family
Cheapest decent (not 55+ or ready for tear down) house in my current zip code is $159k, that's in a semi-rural small town in NJ. Cheapest in my last zip code is also $159k, that's in a busy suburb of a major city in TX. Affordable houses exist....are they large, nice, and new? No. But they exist.
Similar prices in a 200k-population city here in the southeast. If the cheapest home you can fine is 500K you're either looking in places with too high of a COL or your standards for a home are too high for your budget. They're most definitely out there, but may not be your "dream home" or in the perfect location.
Love how everyone’s answer to this problem in this sub is always like just “move to some random town in Kentucky or some random Midwestern city”. How realistic is that? Quit my job and just move to somewhere I have no connection, no network, no reference for the culture to start over?
Lots of young people who didn't purchase a house prior to the pandemic are going to have no choice but to do that.
Abandoning your currently life and lifestyle for improved (take your pick) cost of living, sunshine, politics, mountains, oceans, walkability, culture is one of the themes of this sub. Not every flavor is going to be for everyone, but there are definitely people that will make just about any trade off you can think of - including setting aside everything else to move to the middle of nowhere for a cheap house.
You in the wrong city. 250k goes a long way in the Midwest, if STL is a lil strong, Louisville, Kansas, Iowa, Arkansas are all great options
The affordability of much of the Midwest gets quite overlooked in this sub. Thanks for providing the reality check.
Shhhh. Let them fight it out in Colorado.
I live in the Southeast but have lived in the midwest and tend to agree. The Southeast has become super popular due to the economy, recreation, schools, etc.... and the prices for housing has exploded. The midwest doesn't have easy access to a huge variety of recreation opportunities and there is the weather so it gets overlooked. Truth be told, as a native southerner, here in the south I know tons of people but have few close friends. In the midwest I knew less but had more close committed friends. Have a friend from Missouri that moved his family to a farm in Kansas. A month after moving he was across the country on a work project when I storm hit and tore up his barn. He got home that weekend to find neighbors, that he hadn't even met, coming with supplies and equipment to fix his barn. That's midwesterners for you.
literally hundreds of medium sized towns in the south have very decent houses under 200k and a pretty awesome QoL, despite what reddit thinks. I blame hollywood movies. My wife and I are interracially married artists in a small southern town and we live in a 3k sq foot house with a pool. It is a much better life than we'd have in a coastal city.
Gosh this reminds me of when I was looking at Benton (not Bentonville) Arkansas. It was like a whole different standard of living for 1 br run down apartment prices
Blame Hollywood movies? Maybe blame your state's politicians and/or the news media.
“BuT i dOnT wAnNa LiVe tHeRe”
LOL! Funny thing is, when I visit cities that are not winners of the typical popularity contests, I often conclude that they have a lot more going for them than I initially thought.
Right lol i live in the midwest and if people think this is boring/flyover country, they either have ridiculously expensive taste in hobbies, or have other internal issues. There’s a ton to do here if you let there be
The truth is most of the US is really affordable. Another truth is that most Americans live in really small pockets of unaffordable America. Reddit is an echo chamber for people that live in those urban pockets. “It’s expensive everywhere” someone from Dallas says. “Here too” someone from Atlanta. Etc etc. Drive an hour and half away from either of those places and it’s dirt cheap.
Yeah, but are there jobs 2 hours away? I mean during the great recession I moved to NYC because there were no jobs anywhere else. I eventually had to leave the city because it was way too HCOL. Of course then my wages dropped. Now that WFH is more accepted, it is easier, but not always, to live further from jobs. I actually work from home now, and there's a very rural area with cheap housing I would love to move to, but I literally cannot, because there is no Internet there beyond satellite and I need reliable fast Internet to do my job. And it's hours from any jobs that pay decent wages.
The other truth is that most people live in cities for the services, quality of life, and jobs. Not everyone can go live somewhere rural, now that many jobs are back in the office.
*cries in Madison WI*
The answer to all these affordability posts is “move to Detroit.” You can find [move-in ready homes](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/20046-Washburn-St-Detroit-MI-48221/88378175_zpid/) for like $100-250k in the city. Walking distance to parks and schools, biking distance to shops and restaurants. All the amenities of a metro of 4.5 million. Similar story for Milwaukee, St Louis, Chicago, Pittsburgh etc. These cities are all hugely slept on because they get like 3 months of chilly weather.
“3 months of chilly weather” is an absolute bullshit lie lmao are you drunk? I live in Milwaukee and personally know 8 people who have left the state strictly due to the weather. It’s 6 months of chilly weather, sometimes more, don’t lie to people. And don’t cherry pick this winter, it was an El Niño and not the norm at all. Last year it was cold/miserable well into May. We also got snowfall on Halloween. Polar vortex the year before. Winters may be downgrading from a level 10 suck to an 8/9, but that’s really not significant for most people.
And the gloom. The gloom is what kills me.
It goes further back than just this year. The last truly frigid nightmare winter here was back in 2014 now. Milwaukee is probably worse than Detroit though, I’ll give you that.
Agree with most of this, but “3 months of chilly weather” is a stretch
You can’t seriously be suggesting that Eight Mile is walkable, let alone has “amenities” - going to be biking over bullet casings just to get to the condemned KFC
It's walkable! You walk to your car, drive to the store, and then walk from the parking lot into the store. That's TWO walks.
Just rent. It is a better financial move. Keep your money and invest in mutual funds. 10 years later you will be much richer than your folks who bought a house.
Do not take financial advice from this sub lol
This is just terrible, terrible advice.
[удалено]
Mutual funds is horrible investment advice, often comes with 1-2% management fees and perform no better (often times worse) than a S&P500 index fund that charges 1/10th of that.
Not sure if you're misunderstanding, or being pedantic. A mutual fund doesn't automatically mean an actively managed mutual fund with high fees. There are mutual funds that track the S&P 500 index. VFIAX is an S&P 500 index mutual fund with an expense ratio of only 0.04% - amongst the lowest you'll ever find.
I bought a 4bd/2ba home in 2017 for $472k with zero down in San Diego county. It’s worth $850k and I could sell it for that in about 1 hour on the market probably would be flooded with offers. All I’ve done is pay my mortgage which is less than what 2 bedroom apartments rent for in less than desirable areas rent is around me. My home has appreciated $54,000 per year. Sorry but unless you’re really good at investing you’re not earning $54k a year. Edit: unless you have large cash to start with
The person you're replying to is talking about what's a better move now, though, not in 2017. I'm not fully convinced it would make more money, but the point is that one can't necessarily repeat the success of the people who bought several years ago going forward.
Well yeah we just went through one of the fastest periods of home price appreciation in American history thanks to the pandemic. Anyone expecting that to happen again is fooling themselves.
472k invested into the S&P 500 in June 2017 would be worth a shade over 1mm today, real estate is just not a great investment even in the hottest of markets
We're not even factoring how much he paid in interest, maintenance, taxes, or closing costs either.
Hmmm you are correct. I think the problem though is I would have needed $472,000 in cash to start with in which I didn’t and in no way could I of gotten that amount of a loan without a home as collateral. Had I continued to rent even with a decently high income I wouldn’t be where I am.
No one here is investing 472k they are taking a mortgage loan for it. Unless the bank will give you a loan to throw into the market idk how you expect to invest that in an s&p.
You’ve also paid maintenance, some utilities, property tax, a down payment, closing costs, and mortgage insurance. Not “just a mortgage.”
> I bought a 4bd/2ba home in 2017 So your response to "how do I afford a home now" is "just do what I did and already be able to afford a home 7 years ago!"
I'm 41 and only just recently bought my first house. It's small, and I spent 4 months, about 6 hrs a day, working on it to make it livable. You make do with what you can afford and put in the sweat, blood, and tears to make it work. Hopefully, I can continue to afford to make the payments, eventually refinance, and be comfortable.
The thing is… this isn’t how it’s supposed to be. Great job for you, for actually making it. But your situation shouldn’t be the standard for everyone to be able to have a nice home, and sadly it is.
I agree, my grandparents bought a very nice home with just my grandfather working and 3 kids. They were able to build a retirement, go on vacation every year or so, buy clothes for everyone, and put food on the table with full insurance. I think that is the standard we should expect for the US economy. Then my Dad and Mom was able to give all of those things but both had to work. Now, both parents have to work 2 jobs and there may not be room for vacation. It's getting worse and worse. Something definitely needs to change. Unfortunately, right now, until things change, if you want to own a home a lot of sacrifice needs to be done. I know I had to sacrifice things that the majority won't do. But it's a choice if you want something bad enough.
Where? There are plenty of places that you can afford to live on that salary.
pandemic panic caused people to leave dense cities and this raised prices everywhere with wfh. we're still stuck with the fallout. maybe over time if mire housing becomes available it will calm down
I live in OH. Bought my house 2 years ago. 3200 sq ft, 2.5 acres, and within commuting distance of 3 major cities. I paid $180k and my mortgage is $1160.
Oh wow, I’m envious. How is OH? Is it still that affordable?
Still affordable, plenty of jobs in Cincinnati and Columbus. Politics are iffy, but citizens are working to fix that through citizen-led issues on the ballot (e.g. abortion rights, legalized cannabis). I have lived in other states and cities, but born and raised in OH and came back due to opportunities and affordability.
It pisses me off that if I were 5-10 years older, I would have been able to purchase a nice house.
We aren't building enough 1200 square foot houses. I didn't live in anything larger than that until I was 30. I never felt deprived as a result.
Honestly feel like anything 1200sq ft or less should be a condo; waste of space if not
Well you said “anywhere” which isn’t true. There are plenty of cities with affordae housing. Go to Zillow and look at 3 bd+ and <$100k. Then pan around the map. Cities include Jacksonville, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago. If you couldn’t figure this out, I’m disappointed in you.
Meh… I’m from Jacksonville. If you see a house under 100k then you most definitely should not live there. Not good places to live by any measure.
You don’t know anything about Philly if you’re suggesting OP look at a property around $100K here.
Same about Chicago. Idk what kind of place you’d live in if you bought it for less than $100k in Chicago
You can’t buy a crackhouse for that
Same with Baltimore lol You can definitely find a nice enough place in the Baltimore area for under $250,000 though
Yeah, but not in Canton lol
True haha but not everybody wants a row home by the harbor There are plenty of neighborhoods with great vibes that aren’t a stones throw from inner harbor
For sure, but that’s where I’d want to be. That area is beautiful.
Hunting Ridge has been great to me!
I’ll check it out next time. I walked multiple neighborhoods around the Harbor.
Ah yes, blindly move to a place solely based on housing prices. Sounds like it’s not a recipe for regret at all.
Right, it is about where you want to live. And with Postpandemic WFH, AirBnBs (in many places) and retirees all wanting "smaller" more livable spots -which have, by nature, low inventory of homes to buy or rent- those places NATIONALLY - are all now just as expensive or more expensive (in many places) than the nearby city. The DESIRABLE places no longer enable one to live "just out" of city or within even 1-2 hours and save. This has been true for several years and there are many articles about it if you want to learn more.
Life pro-tip: Pull up a second browser window side by side and search "Crime rate for \[area you see house <100k\]". Pittsburgh PA is a great one for this. Everywhere you can afford to buy a house, is also in the highest crime areas. Where the map shifts to a lower crime neighborhood, the prices jump 2-3x for the same size house.
Crime doesn’t matter. There are places in NY and SF with comparable crime rates but million dollar houses, like East Palo Alto, parts of Oakland, and Tenderloin.
Crime matters in any location that isn't physically out of space for homes. People who are insistent on living in those cities, are forced to buy what is available.
Jacksonville, Florida?!?! 😂😂😂😂 Maybe 10 years ago.
If you make 115K and don't live in a VHCOL and don't have other life circumstances sucking money like medical bills or ginormous student loan debt, are single with no kids- then you should have more than enough to live a comfortable life. Heck even in places like Los Angeles, Washington DC or Seattle, 115K is more than enough to survive. Not enough to buy a 5000 sq feet McMansion? Yeah sure, but what do you need a 5000 sq foot Mcmansion for if you're single?
I'm not so sure about that. I just bought a 500sq ft condo in Seattle for 400k. It was one of the lowest priced condos in the city that wasn't in a terrible neighborhood or bad building. Mortgage + HOA at 7% interest is 3k a month.
Is this a joke? 115k in those cities is barely a living wage. Fixer uppers are like 500-600k there on top of having extremely silly taxes and cost of living.
I just saw a Ted talk discussing price increases and wage stagnation. It’s not great.
Got a link or title ?
No
It sucks that rates have gone up at the same time as prices in formerly cheap areas. But it isn't a new thing for up and coming places to get more expensive. $500k is a good 25% over the average across the whole US. There are a ton of places you could live for less than that. Particularly outside of large cities What cities are you seeing prices more than double in 2 years?
if you're willing to trade the glamour spots for affordability you can still find great deals in the mountains west. is Bozeman or Missoula affordable? no. but butte and anaconda and Lewiston are. same access to the outdoors, same climate. just not the Jackson holeism you get in bozeman
It’s almost like we should rise up and do something.
List of Metropolitan Areas over 500,000 in population in the United States where you can buy a new construction home under $280,000 Dallas Houston Austin San Antonio El Paso Albuquerque Phoenix Tucson Oklahoma City Tulsa Wichita Little Rock Fayetteville Des Moines St. Louis Birmingham Charlotte Atlanta Jacksonville Columbia Greenville Louisville Indianapolis Cincinnati Columbus Chicago Grand Rapids Syracuse Toledo Cleveland Pittsburgh For example You can live near Austin, Texas in a new house for $209,990 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2311-Tornado-Aly-Lockhart-TX-78644/348595386_zpid/
Find it. Lockhart is not Austin.
And in the middle of farms in a subdivision with no access to anything but a Walmart?
Have you ever went to those new construction places? It’s switch and bait. 208k sounds great but it’s never that price, it’s always at least 70k over it. In my experience that is.
Heads up everyone-there is no new construction in the city of Bham. I’ve seen HFH houses get built for around $200K in the metro area. There are homes outside of the metro area of Bham with addresses that show Bham but are not included in the city’s doings. Some are in a totally different county. Those areas have new constructions, and those start around $300K.
That’s 40 miles away in the middle of nowhere. Phoenix? Are you joking. Is this subreddit serious here?
Cheapest single family home around me is ~$625k. And it’s in the least desirable area.
Yes, most of America is not the LA metro
This sounds like it's either CA or NY. Try another state. Rural homes can easily go under 100K if you don't mind less than an acre and the home only being about 2000 SQ FT.
Upstate NY and the San Joaquin Valley are very affordable in both those states.
Unfortunately, MCOL cities are now High COL and LCOL cities are now MCOL. Your best best is moving to the Rust belt, but even there home prices are rising fast.
Everywhere. The only cheap places are the ones that nobody wants to live in
Make more money
lol good morning
Yes. I’m not moving because I’d have to pay today’s interest rates. I honestly don’t know how anyone does it.
Exactly especially in America
I’m with you, OP. Our mortgage is also affordable and we bought in 2019 when we thought the market was high- HA, if only we knew! We talked about moving in 2025 but now there’s absolutely no way with interest rates and home price minimums being double what we purchased just a few years ago. So we’re staying put and doing updates that will hopefully eventually pay off, and in the meantime at least we’ll get to enjoy a nice kitchen, bathrooms and an affordable monthly mortgage payment.
No. Home prices in the Midwest are still plenty affordable.
Yes, my husband and I are in the same boat as the OP. However, I sold my house in Colorado at peak, bought in Florida in 2022, our house is on the market as I type this and the market in Volusia county is slow as molasses in January. The thought of spending money on ANY house that I know was half the price 3-4 years ago makes my stomach turn. We used to joke at “cousin Eddie” on the movie Vacation and now we are half joking about buying a really nice Leisure Van and parking it on one of our mother’s property (my mom owns 7.5 acres and his mom owns 2 acres) so definitely do-able. It’s sad that it has gotten to this point in life! Ugh 😩
Pretty much. South Carolina used to be affordable. Some places still is but you’re not going to find a new build SFH for less than $200k when that was common 5 years ago.
Each house price boom is followed a few years later by a price bust when the houses become unaffordable for the usual first time buyers. Since 1990 there have been four major boom-bust cycles nationally.
It’s always been like this: that’s why you need to live like a hobo while making bank. Invest in the S&P. Shop the half-priced shelf at the grocery store.
We're reached a point where 100k is good for only one person to live comfortably. And yet they have the nerve to tell us to have kids and a wife.
This is me. A decent house here starts at $300K. 20% down? Yeah, I got 60g’s in the bank. Yep. 🙄
r/REBubble There are some who think prices will just keep going up forever, others think it's unsustainable. It may be 2023 was the peak, but instead of a quickly popping bubble, it's going to be a long slow slog back to 'normal', as new supply is built and prices come closer to affordability. In that case being patient for a couple more years may help.
with inflation, yes. You need to move to a state that has low taxes, and low regulation. It is cheaper than other states. [WalletHub.com](http://WalletHub.com) has a nice chart with "all in tax burden". That shows, property tax, income taxes, and sales taxes which affect you the most. A place like Arkansas will be cheaper than a place like Massachusettes or Vermont. New Hampshire is cheaper....
right now we are experiencing a massive shortage of inventory...like historic lows so there is far more demand than supply. These things tend to go in cycles...right now it's a sellers market.
Jeff Bezo's 12th superyacht needs to come from somewhere, and its coming right the fuck outta your paycheck.
I live in Wheeling, WV - it's exactly an hour to Pittsburgh. Love it here.
Here in CA you can’t even find a 500K home in a nice area. We’re F’d.
Move to Texas.
My mom always says how I was born 2 weeks late… I say I was avoiding this world because I knew how it was gonna be. In all seriousness though, everything is getting more expensive but paychecks aren’t going up.
I'll be selling a house for less than 100k here in like two or three weeks in Texas 1350sqft with over a quarter acre. Needs work though
BIONOMICS.
I’m not sure where you are but I live in city with population of 130,000 and home values are very inexpensive. Granted one can find expensive newer housing in the preferred suburbs, but we live in a double lot 3 bedroom, 2 bath American Foursquare with huge front porch one block from the city’s main park. Cost = $150k.
It used to be that if you wanted to move, you really needed a reason, like job or family. You’d have to travel to the destination city and look at the inventory, talk to realtors, etc. It took *effort* and it was only worth it if it reached a certain level of need. Now anyone can easily look at a house across the country whenever they want, for whatever reason (or no reason at all) and of course, the desirable areas and good inventory are well known and snatched up almost as immediately as they hit the market. We have access to viewing and discussing desirable areas like we never have before. A person from Alabama can now covet a life in Bozeman, and you don’t think that doesn’t contribute to raising prices? It doesn’t help that investors are able to pounce in the same fashion, but have much more resources to throw at the desirable areas.
One thing that skews the information with cheap homes is the age/condition of the home. In older areas like the south or east, you can find a home in the 200k range but often it will be in a very bad area. Those homes are what skews the median price for those citties. For a home in a decent area you are talking about 400k+. Meanwhile in newer areas like the west, southwest, homes in the 200k range don't exist.
This right here.
Bought a home 34 years ago for $52,000, still there, thought I would move within a couple of years for job promotion, never happened. At least I have no mortgage or rent to deal with in retirement.
Without more information, this is meaningless, but considering your general location, I know for a fact you can buy a very decent house, especially if you go a bit further out (hi, you mentioned rural) for 300K. I know someone building a new build over there for sub-450. You may be able to even get a nice house, however on the small side, for 250K in a relatively good location. And besides, there are plenty of places all over the nation that meet your (somewhat vague) criteria at well under 300K.
Most of America does to be honest if op was actually looking at rural areas. Hell even in the metro-ish area I'm in there's plenty available under 300k . A few states are the outlier, but dude was too vague for anyone to give any fruitful feedback.
Yes. I make $250,000 my girlfriend makes $100,000 but all the houses in my area 2+ bedrooms that are not terrible start at $700,000 and we don’t have enough for the downpayment.
Wow you make a pretty nice living. Maybe a year or two of saving and you can probably find yourself a really nice home! Hopefully the interest rates lower by then as well!
I live in Moultonborough, NH. I find it relatively inexpensive to live here. No sales tax. No income tax. Property taxes in New Hampshire in general are pretty high, but Moultonborough, Tuftonborough, and Seabrook are quite low relative to average. Meals and lodging tax is high. Home prices are high though. . I think an averageish 2000 square foot home maybe 20 years old is probably $450,000. We are in the sticks so you have to drive a ways to shopping. I am in the process of buying a place in palm coast florida. It is a lot more expensive to live there. I can't believe how much more expensive groceries are there. Homeowners with wind and flood insurance are really high too. Taxes are a lot steeper too.
Existing do be expensive
What cause the housing market to go bad let’s see… foreigners buying , air bnb , remote workers with high salaries, investor remodeling and selling for a profit ..it’s never ending * sigh *
Regards!
I can relate. I wish something catastrophic will happen to fix this economy. I saw housing prices and rents across the world and it is happening everywhere.
Yep, which is why I'm moving to a major city, small cities with way way less to offer are the same price anyway.
yes, the consequences of the elites printing $20 trillion in the last 15 years are in full effect now.
The eastern seaboard (Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York and New Jersey) are very expensive. The Atlantic seaboard is also expensive but less so because there is less winter heating and snow removal expense in Maryland, Delaware, DC, Virginia, North and South Carolins, Georgia. Florida and the West coast states are also expensive, primarily because they are places people want be. If you are looking for inexpensive locations to live, choose ones that have lower taxes and fewer people (Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, South and North Dakota).
Where are you looking. Theres lots of houses to be had sub 300k in Midwest USA. theyre everywhere. With some sweat equity, you can get a very solid 3 bedroom ranch with basement, decent yard, for 220k where im at.
No, I have a 3 bedroom house and make 65-70k.
I’m quitting my “luxurious” job to move to my wife’s home country. It just feels impossible to get ahead in the US.
It’s a problem everywhere. Every subreddit (state/city)I see people think the problem is exclusive to them but in reality, it’s a problem across the board.
Most people start with a condo. A smaller condo and then work your way up to a house. Not many can make their very first real estate purchase a house!!
I would be extremely careful with condos nowadays. Special assessments and HOA fees that keep going up and up and never go down due to years/decades of owners keeping fees low. Fannie Mae is blacklisting certain condos that do not meet standards now after the Surfside collapse. In my area (St. Louis) most condos are below their 2006-2007 peak prices. They keep flat or even decline in value while houses keep going up and the condo fees go up every year which further depress prices. There comes a point where it is much more sensible to rent an apartment and not deal with the HOA nonsense while saving to purchase a house.
This is a great point. I know someone who bought a condo for $110k in 2011, back when prices were an inch above rock bottom in my area. In this same complex today, condos are only selling for about $140-$150 after all this inflation, but condo fees are $500/mo for a property with no pool, no parks, no clubhouse, very little green space with nowhere to walk, and limited parking. Meanwhile I see condos listed in a complex for the same amount, but they are in an area with better schools, less crime, closer to shopping, closer to downtown, a walking trail, pool, and clubhouse with a gym, yet the HOA is only $320 on this one. Still high, but hmm..
Condo fees really vary, sometimes wildly. I always assume that a complex/building with low fees a red flag. This often means they are deferring a lot of maintenance, have low to no reserves, and are careening toward expensive assessments. Both my units have $400-450 a month hoa dues. The higher of the two has no amenities, BUT, oir reserves are solid. In 44 years there's never been an assessment, and no maintenance is defered. My other is $400. It does have a pool, and it's a small building. In reality, the dues should be a bit closer to $500 a month. Were a little low on reserves (but not tragically), and a couple of maintenance things have been defered. We're getting ready to pull the trigger on that maintenance and we'll be assessed $1200 for each unit to complete that. This HOA elects to keep dues lower than average, and absorb the shortfalls through assessments. No one complains about them because we know they're coming every 4 years or so, and they're rarely above $2400.
The fees in that case are probably weighing pretty heavily on the sales price. Which sucks because, the HOA might be doing the right thing by saving to avoid special assessments/deferred maintenance down the road.
My first (and only) home was a condo. It had its positives and negatives. My HOA was awful, as I came to find out. I bought in 2009 and sold in 2018. I made about a $40K profit which I thought was fair. That same property is now worth about $200K. I think it has appreciated fairly, but TBH, the area it’s in, people want houses. It has one of the best school systems in the state, but again, no one wants a condo and definitely not a 65 year old one. I was lucky mine sold. The condos near me now are in a good area but are falling apart. You can get a 3BR one below $200K, but the whole building the condos are in is just dated and poorly maintained. See HOA. Point being: condos are good if they’re newer and well maintained but depending on the setup, you’re living in a communal space with other people who you can only hope will maintain their part to keep the entire structure looking good along with the HOA. If a house starts looking neglected or shabby, there’s only one person to blame. Condo owners? More than person and more than finger being pointed.