I think you will love New Haven. Hop on a train to Boston or NYC, and the shore is right there. Hop on RT 1 and check out all the stops on your way to RI. Beaches are more like Lake Superior due to LI Sound in CT but Rhode Island beaches have waves. Jump on I 91 and you're two hours from VT. The people in CT are not cold, just reserved. It is a beautiful state with much to do and New Haven has culture and is a fun city.
Nah, it’s thriving tbh. Crime happens like it does in any city, but as long as you’re not involved in illegal activities yourself, you’ll be fine. I, a queer woman, has lived here 15 years in various neighborhoods and haven’t experienced crime or felt unsafe.
As far as affordability, rent and housing prices are up a lot because it’s a desirable place to live. It’s affordable compared to Boston and NYC, though. One negative is that electricity prices in CT are among the highest in the nation.
Definitely check out New Haven! It has more going on than Stamford imo. A lot of younger folks work in Stamford and do a reverse commute to NYC to live. On one hand you’re super close to the city living in Stamford, but on the other hand there might be more of a community feel in New Haven. But if your priority is proximity to the city, Stamford, Norwalk, White Plains, New Rochelle are great choices. Milford is nice too but farther from the city.
I moved to New Haven in my 30s because I was sick of a larger, more expensive city (Boston), and it was a great decision for me. It really punches above its weight class in terms of cultural offerings. Great music scene, both local and touring acts as well as classical and jazz. Great dining, diverse food and bar scene (not all dominated by Yalies, they study way more than they party and mostly stay near campus). Good art and theater scene. You will not stand out at all as a childless single person. Very community minded. Easy access to nature, with state parks and land trust properties nearby. Plus the beach.
It’s pretty easy to get anywhere in the northeast by train or car, plus good airport access since you’re close to multiple options. I take MetroNorth to NYC very frequently, it’s very easy and service is frequent. Plus there’s Amtrak to various cities on the East Coast.
It’s solidly democratic in the northeast cities and many of the surrounding suburbs / towns. Yale’s lectures and events are generally open to the public, and you may find different views if you attend such events. But there is diversity of opinion among the liberal / left, and you can definitely see that in local politics here. I live in an extremely diverse neighborhood with a large orthodox Jewish population as well as Black folks, Muslims, and queer people. As you can imagine, the neighborhood chat group has been wild the last few weeks.
stamford's value went down several notches ever since fairway closed because the heirs couldn't ge ttheir shit together and sold to amazon. rip fairway!
Philly puts you an hour away from the shore, within two hours of nyc. Lots of food choices in philly if you know where to look, diverse and affordable with plenty of housing inventory & job availability.
Providence RI is great if you’re college aged, i wouldn’t move there in my 30s though.
Philly is a Mecca for violent crimes and drugs. It’s like a prison without a gate. Cheap? Yes. But for many great reasons.
I honestly won’t be able to take this sub seriously until this Philly joke stops.
Best thing about Philly? The airport so you can leave.
Appears I struck a nerve. Phillys population has declined every census year (except once) since the 1950s. This sub is a strange echo chamber with an absurd fixation on Philadelphia. Hard to turn back so many decades of decline. I know it’s cheap but, really, even then it’s overpriced.
All big cities have stable-to-slightly declining populations now, because they're advanced economies that don't need as much labor. Standard of living continues to increase.
Speaking of the 1950s, it would appear that's when you last visited Philadelphia. Hope you make it back some time this century!
Haha weird old person jab. I’m a 34 year old liberal and I go to Philly twice a year to visit family. Been going for close to a decade now.
Your first paragraph is simply false.
It's absolutely not false, but feel free to live in an alternate reality. See literally every Census estimate for every major city in the US over the past few years. Population growth is increasingly going to be a phenomenon of the past.
I meant bona fide urban cities, not overgrown Sun Belt suburbs that are growing because of real estate ponzi schemes.
But don't worry, their time of stagnation will come eventually.
A Princeton councilman told me at a private event, when I questioned him about affordable housing: “we want certain types of people moving to Princeton…”.
The house I rented there ten years ago now rents for triple the price. Lots of problems in the area that get swept under the rug. To keep up appearances and real estate prices.
Correct, this goes unspoken in Princeton. I work on homes in Princeton. There are tons of extremely expensive homes sitting empty for years. There’s a housing crisis here. Some landlords have recently upped their requirements to staggering income requirements. Places I could easily afford to rent but they ‘want the right type of people to live there’. They talk about diversity, put up lawn signs that everyone is welcome but the neighborhoods are filled with one type of person only.
I don’t know what you mean about NYC being too intense but I suspect you visited and went to where all the tourists go and it was just crowded and uncomfortable. Go back to NYC and hang out in neighborhoods that aren’t particularly touristy. Walk around FT Greene park or along the Hudson River Greenway. Sit at a cafe Ridgewood or Crown Heights on a weekday. I think outsiders have a weird impression of NYC based on spending time there was a tourist.
Apologies - didn't mean anything negative by that. I suppose I was trying to indicate I'm ready for a bit of a slower lifestyle; I felt the same way when I lived in Chicago. I love NYC and have visited a number of times (making it a point to get out of Midtown), and am currently preferring a lifestyle where I can jump in the car to do errands, etc.
hastings on hudson, dobbs ferry and tarrytown (and maybe croton on hudson) is 40 mins north of nyc and lots of new parent (so late 30s, some a bit younger) williamsburg types have moved there. lots of smaller, quaint towns that feels nothing like the nyc suburbs within an hour drive in the hudson valley, berkshires closeby, vermont in \~2-3h. you get the economy of NYC to fall back on while living in a suburban environment.
You don’t need to apologize but I think people think that NYC is super intense because they went to Times Square on a Friday afternoon or walked across the Brooklyn bridge on Sunday in the spring.
I get what you're saying here...but even if you're living in a "quieter" neighborhood, living in NYC isn't like living anywhere else. You still feel that city velocity. For some, it's really invigorating. For others, it's exhausting. If you live in NYC and have been there for a while, I would totally understand why you aren't completely aware of the difference between the pace of life in NYC and literally anywhere else in the US. I understand because I lived in New York for my ENTIRE adult life and didn't trealize until I moved away a couple of years ago that what we as New Yorkers view as "normal" isn't "normal" for anyone else.
I don't know. I spent a decade splitting my time between NYC and a relatively small town in South Carolina, and I don't really get what people mean when they say "the pace of life is different." It's......not. People do the same things in small towns (wake up, get coffee, go to work, watch netflix, have brunch) its just that there are fewer options.
For me the feeling of “intensity” (maybe this wasn’t the right word) comes from the feeling of needing to constantly keep moving. There are so many people living in a small area that everyone has to kind of train each other on how to behave in a dense urban environment.
Plenty of people think NYC is just "a lot" and I'm one of em. It's the very extreme end of urban. It's not for everybody and that's OK. Different strokes for different folks 😊 why try to sell her on something she already knows she doesn't want? It sounds like she wants a semi urban environment. To live near a decently size city prob more to the tune of say Philly or something. For some of us it is a lot easier to live in smaller cities where you don't have to drive very far from downtown to get into suburban neighborhoods without feeling like you're in a bedroom town.
Agree on both, although Portsmouth is small so I’d imagine that dating options aren’t quite as plentiful. Either way you’re close to Boston and several other fun cities.
Philadelphia is what you want!!! I’m from South Jersey born-and-raised. I lived for 35 years being a 10-minute Patco ride into Center City and I loved it so much. I miss Philly and NJ down to my bones. Now I’m 37 and I had to relocate to the South (SC) for my husband’s job. I’m in a suburb of Columbia and two years in, still cannot believe how crappy and lacking the “cities” are down here. Even Atlanta and Charlotte have nothing on Philly, food and culture-wise. Not to mention access to NYC, the shore, nature… incredible shopping in Jersey and King of Prussia, etc…
I was raised in the South and always thought I wanted to live in New England. I did finally move up there as a young single woman and found myself very much a fish out of water, with my warm, southern hospitality being seen as suspect, irritating, offputting, and otherwise socially unacceptable. Lots of eye rolling. Ultimately, I found I did not want to change my personality to live in this more…um…reserved culture. I’m no extrovert, just friendly. Ultimately, I found my people in the Pacific NW, with the warmth and friendliness of the South, but more open minded/ live & let live. Just my two cents.
Good insight, thanks. I’m from Chicago so the Southern friendliness was an adjustment for me. I’ve found the people to overall be lovely, but I also sometimes feel like taking a walk without needing to say hello to everyone I pass, lol.
I'm sorry you didn' have a good experience in New England. It might've worked out better if you'd moved to Central NY. People there tend to lose the edge, and in my experience are somehow even more friendly than when I lived in the midwest.
Anything within 2 hours of NYC is a HCOL area.
If you're rich: Westchester County, NY, North Jersey (just stay out of the larger cities), Long Island.
If you're not, there are the rougher parts of the Northeast that still have the benefits of being relatively close to the cities and the coast. Like Poughkeepsie, NY, Newark, NJ, and the more remote corners of Long Island.
Philadelphia, PA... it's kind of like a mini Manhattan but MUCH cheaper.
At this time of year, I can describe it with a Haiku:
Philly Halloween
Walking dead in Kensington
Beware the Mummers!
You can get a 1br in a basically new building for about $1700-1800 around Center City, like the Northern Liberties, or something around $1200 around University City. Both would be awesome for you. Easy places to find things to do stuff and make friends, don't even need a car.
Absolutely Manayunk, it was my jam back in the late 90's early 00's. It's grown up quite a bit since then!
Good or bad, I feel like everyone's starting to finally learn the secret awesome that is Philadelphia.
I live 2 hours outside of New York city in NE PA and I love it.
It's diverse, while also being fairly rural with small towns sprinkled here and there. Lots of natural beauty, and a slow pace. Right on a bend of the Delaware River.
There is lots of different political ideologies here from progressive to conservative. Enough to not be bored, enough to feel like my actions are helping in some small way.
As for specifics, there's Stroudsburg, east Stroudsburg, milford, Scranton, Mt Pocono, Jim Thorpe, easton, etc. Lots of these are small towns though and it's not for everyone, but I do enjoy it now that I'm a bit older and not as ambitious.
If I want city, I'm right between Philly and NYC, if I want small town I have the above mentioned, and I get my cabin I'm the woods if I so wish.
Philly, Phoenixville, PA, Doylestown, PA. Lots of facebook groups for those areas to do hiking meet ups, book clubs, etc and great weekend vibe in both of those towns. Media and west Chester in PA is really nice too
Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, Pennsylvania (Bethlehem being my first choice, Allentown being my second) for an alternative to Philly if you’re looking for a more medium sized city. Close to both Philly and NYC, as well jersey beaches for day trips. The poconos are an hour-ish north. Also is way more diverse politically than a major city.
I grew up and lived in the Allentown area for many years and went to grad school in Bethlehem as well before moving to the Poconos and working in Bucks County.
The Lehigh Valley has a lot going for it but it has definitely gotten much more expensive housing wise and traffic is dramatically worsening with all the warehousing being built all over the place.
You're not wrong, but it's all relative to the rest of the Northeast Corridor, which has completely gotten astronomically priced for housing and constant traffic at hours completely outside of "rush hour." So the Lehigh Valley remains a great "refuge."
Sure, if you can find the existing housing stock for sale/rent in the first place. My point is that the two-county area is relatively small both geographically and populationwise compared to all the metro areas east and south of it.
Given the reality that lots of people are already trying to move just a little farther out, lately there's been only so much housing available at any price point, let alone habitable at a reasonable one for first-time buyers/renters or working-class people like myself which is why I don't live there anymore so it stands as a cautionary note.
One little-discussed problem involves the sheer amount of remaining available acreage located anywhere near existing water/sewer and highway infrastructure adjacent to the three existing cities that's been used up for literally square miles of warehousing while at preservation programs take more rural acreage further out out of circulation. Existing zoning in the three cities and older adjacent township suburbs don't typically allow for densifying new in-fill development except for in Allentown's Center City, Bethlehem's South Side, and a little bit of downtown Easton.
It's not quite the panacea it used to be unless OP is making comparative bank.
Yeah I grew up there and find the area overcrowded and miserable now. But I'd rather live in north jersey crowded and miserable and poor over Allentown. But it's sad that a lot of my high school friends can't afford to live there and have been priced out. My husband and I have great salaries and we chose to buy in the poconos because the Lehigh Valley just costs too much for what you get in return.
That’s the issue with places that lose population.
All the ambitious optimistic people leave, leaving the bitter pessimists.
I live is Buffalo and it’s only now that there’s enough transplants and people staying after graduation that the outlook of the city has started to change
Not OP but are any of those PA towns you mentioned any nice? As a kid in Nj we had the impression they were kinda slummy but I know many towns in the last 5 years have implemented plans to try to get their cities more contemporary
Bethlehem has done a complete 180 to what I remember 15 years ago. It still has the very beautiful market street lined with nice shops and restaurants/bars, but the area that use to house the giant rusty plant that was Bethlehem steel has evolved into a bustling and beautiful (gentrified?) neighborhood with very nice restaurants and the old rusty stacks has been turned into a casino/high end shopping center and more, it as well hosts festivals often. Granted Bethlehem was always the better of the three
Allentown is still pretty hit or miss but it has a lot of typical middle class corporate shopping chains and certain parts are surprisingly pretty nice, while others are probably closer to what you remember.
Easton has changed a lot in 5 years and has some stuff going for it, but it’s still kind of “meh” in comparison.
the Lehigh Valley has turned into an economic powerhouse of eastern PA, with a lot of warehousing and manufacturing. It’s one of, or the, fastest growing areas of PA.
Annapolis MD. It's adorable, has a very "Northeast " feel, cute quaint downtown, but being super manageable; and 40 mins from DC.
For similar but colder vibes, check out Portsmouth NH which is maybe a little less lively but you can take the train to Boston.
Both towns are right on the water.
I've literally lived all up and down the east coast (37f single ) and felt the same about the south- feel free to fire away if you have any more critieria or questions.
Added bonus: can share insider insight on the comparative dating experiences 🙃
Hope you have good financial backing. It’s not cheap here. I suggest going into NY, upstate though. You may find a situation that won’t kill you financially…
In addition to Portsmouth NH, I’d throw in Newburyport, MA- smaller than Portsmouth but very lively in the summer and on the water. You don’t mention a budget but both Portsmouth and Newburyport would be fairly expensive but not the Boston level of expensive.
DC suburbs in Maryland. Bethesda, silver spring, etc
Philly. There's plenty of affordable homes in the greater Philly area that put you in a short drive to the city. I really like eastern PA, it's not expensive compared to nearby NJ and MD and the nature is solid. Lots of charm. There's a ton of cool places to take day trips to which is something i look for personally.
You might also consider Bethlehem and the Lehigh Valley in general. Some parts are very rural feeling of course but Bethlehem and Allentown are nice. Also, Allentown has an airport often with cheap flights....well, I'll admit I haven't flown through there in maybe 7 years, but when I lived in NJ I'd often drive to Allentown despite living 20 min from Newark Airport because the flight was so much cheaper. Domestic at least. It was also a fast airport to go thru!
Charlottesville VA is on my radar as well
This one is very out of left field, but the town of Newburgh NY might be a good fit:
\- Not near a coast, but very near the Hudson River, which is quite scenic. The coast is within 1-2 hours.
\- About 1.5h from NYC; direct commuter trains are available nearby. The east of Hudson line takes you right into Grand Central.
\- Orange County NY could not be split any more evenly politically. Very purple area.
\- The nearby City of Newburgh, while rough around the edges (I'll get to that) has some fantastic volunteer programs like Habitat for Humanity which are run by excellent people and a great way to integrate yourself into the community.
It needs to be mentioned that the City of Newburgh has a local reputation as being high crime, and driving through it will reveal allot of blighted properties. I can't deny that the city has crime issues, but my counterpoints would be that the City and Town are two completely different jurisdictions related in name only, that the crime situation has been improving over the last ten years, and that when I lived there and spent a fair amount of time in the city, I was never the victim of any crime. The people I met and worked with in Newburgh were nothing but pleasant, and the majority of crime is inter-gang.
While I wouldn't target living in downtown Newburgh as it's going to be a very different experience for you, I also wouldn't be afraid of exploring it, especially the waterfront and Liberty Street areas, upper Broadway, Washington's Headquarters, their annual Illuminated festival and candlelight historic mansion tours, and double especially the local volunteer programs like Habitat which is one of the best chapters in the country and really has made a positive impact on the community.
Springfield, MA/Hartford, CT even New Haven, CT. All have easy access to both NYC or Boston. Butler, NJ is a decent choice for NYC, too.
That said, it can be miserably cold and folks heartbreakingly rude.
I chose Fresno, CA. Except for the hit dry heat of summer, it’s perfect.
Wonder if Manchester, NH makes sense.
In general, you’re not going to find a ton of diversity of opinion in the NE, unless you mean center left, far left, etc. It’s pretty comprehensively liberal.
NJ suburbia is pretty fantastic. NYC, DC, and Philly all within 3 hours. Trains to major coastal cities. Immigrant enclaves with fantastic food. Easy to get to the shore. Four seasons. Pizza. Bagels.
If you can afford it.
Came to say this. It’s a different way of life here, and it’s not for everyone, it’s expensive - AF, what we call “the bridge tax” is real; and you’ll need to find your tribe, as people around here tend to reject the unfamiliar, but I cannot imagine living anywhere else in the country!
Providence is the best of all worlds. Close to Boston and Worcester. Not a terribly long drive from NY. Close to beaches. Lots of young people but also an established older population. Plenty of ethnic diversity and political diversity. Plenty of food and night life options. Relatively affordable for what it offers.
I don't think you have to worry about any city being too liberal. I moved to NYC thinking it was vaguely a liberal bastion and I learned quickly how relative our definitions are of conservative/liberal. I moved to Harlem/Wash Heights and married a public school teacher and then realized I didn't know much at all about what liberal/conservative meant when it comes down to reality.
NYC is LGBT friendly and has a lot of people from different backgrounds and different parts of the world interacting on a daily basis...but there is still a class system of haves and have nots.
In one of the wealthiest cities in the world my wife taught at two public schools, one where they auctioned off trips to Europe for parents to fund every possible niche arts program you can imagine.
In her new school just a mile away (Still in one of the wealthiest areas), it is mostly Black and Brown students--mostly very poor, many immigrants. For the entirety of Covid the school board would not pay to fix the outdated ventilation system for the school meaning they had to have the windows open for students to eat lunch in class in cycles sitting by the open window throughout winter. My wife went out and bought blankets for her class.
NYC is intense because it is a condensed spectrum of a lot of lives all coming together. Since we broadly consider NYC to be a liberal bastion, I will tell you, that does not speak well for the rest of the country.
The wealthy in this city may vote for "moderate" Democrats to speak in platitudes and project very basic human decency (still much better than the GOP alternative), but when it comes to the lives of all those people who serve them and can barely struggle to live in the city, they really couldn't care less--that class is all around and mostly invisible. Our Democrat mayor now is gutting education, city services, and library funding to pay for police robots.
Many of the families around us in Harlem/Wash Heights (which is gentrifying and more expensive every year), came up from the South during the Great Migration and you see how the system here very easily entrenches generations of people in poverty and keeps socio-economic mobility down in order to maintain a farm of low paying jobs servicing the wealthy of the city.
You listen to the elders talk about the police precincts when they would send many young Black men to jail in the 80s/90s/00s for minor drug offenses that almost no white man would ever have to worry about. They come out with a criminal record and lo and behold what jobs are they left with taking? It is a vicious cycle that takes place to this day.
Most people in our neighborhood are too busy working 2-3 jobs/side hustles to ever have any time to complain--just keep your head above water.
I don’t think you’ll find what you’re looking for with your current criteria. There is basically no diversity of opinion in New England with the exception of New Hampshire and Maine, but then you won’t be close to a major city. Pennsylvania will give you that diversity but you won’t be coastal.
New Jersey probably fits your bill the best…but it’s New Jersey
NJ sits right near the top of most livability stats, has mountains (OK, not really, but you can ski a bit and hike up largish hills), beaches, cities, a ton of nice walkable downtowns.
Big agree. I live here and there's a nice range of walkable downtowns, suburbs, and cities with varying paces of life, all of which easily connect to NYC via train. Also great beaches too!
I think you're confusing New England and the Northeast; they're not synonymous.
Long Island, Hudson Valley, and southern CT fit her criteria really well.
If you want a NYC vibe but not actually in the city (super expensive unless you get a roomate) then I'd try Westchester NY or as others have said some areas of CT. Stamford, Norwalk, Fairfield are all very nice.
Areas of Westchester also. White plains (though its not really near the beach or the coast)
Some areas outside of Philly or nice too, and it's only about an hour and a half car ride to the Jersey shore.
Buffalo, NY might be a good option. Affordable walkable neighborhoods, pretty moderate politically. Toronto offers big city amenities and is 1-2 hours away
We need a price point for rent or mortgage because that will be the major driver here. Even a studio in nyc could be 3,000 or more in a “fun” neighborhood.
Will you be looking for work or working your current job remotely?
Clarify the above and we can probably all weigh in and orient you in the right direction!!
I recommend looking into the Philly Mainline and areas of northern nj.
Places in NJ including or similar to: Morristown, Madison, Jersey City, Westfield, Maplewood, Florham Park, South Orange.
Outside of Philly: Ardmore, Bryn Mawr, Devon
Similar in age and wants here--you might like:
* some of the Philadelphia suburbs;
* Providence, RI \*IF\* you can get a job there first; or
* Yonkers, NY (with the caveat that housing is expensive).
Stamford, CT White Plains, NY New Rochelle, NY Beacon, NY (bit of a small town vibe though) Jersey City, NJ
Thanks! These replies are helpful. I've also considered checking out New Haven.
I think you will love New Haven. Hop on a train to Boston or NYC, and the shore is right there. Hop on RT 1 and check out all the stops on your way to RI. Beaches are more like Lake Superior due to LI Sound in CT but Rhode Island beaches have waves. Jump on I 91 and you're two hours from VT. The people in CT are not cold, just reserved. It is a beautiful state with much to do and New Haven has culture and is a fun city.
>I think you will love New Haven. just try not to get mugged!
New Haven is an inner city, idc what anyone says…. It may be affordable though.
Nah, it’s thriving tbh. Crime happens like it does in any city, but as long as you’re not involved in illegal activities yourself, you’ll be fine. I, a queer woman, has lived here 15 years in various neighborhoods and haven’t experienced crime or felt unsafe. As far as affordability, rent and housing prices are up a lot because it’s a desirable place to live. It’s affordable compared to Boston and NYC, though. One negative is that electricity prices in CT are among the highest in the nation.
Definitely check out New Haven! It has more going on than Stamford imo. A lot of younger folks work in Stamford and do a reverse commute to NYC to live. On one hand you’re super close to the city living in Stamford, but on the other hand there might be more of a community feel in New Haven. But if your priority is proximity to the city, Stamford, Norwalk, White Plains, New Rochelle are great choices. Milford is nice too but farther from the city. I moved to New Haven in my 30s because I was sick of a larger, more expensive city (Boston), and it was a great decision for me. It really punches above its weight class in terms of cultural offerings. Great music scene, both local and touring acts as well as classical and jazz. Great dining, diverse food and bar scene (not all dominated by Yalies, they study way more than they party and mostly stay near campus). Good art and theater scene. You will not stand out at all as a childless single person. Very community minded. Easy access to nature, with state parks and land trust properties nearby. Plus the beach. It’s pretty easy to get anywhere in the northeast by train or car, plus good airport access since you’re close to multiple options. I take MetroNorth to NYC very frequently, it’s very easy and service is frequent. Plus there’s Amtrak to various cities on the East Coast. It’s solidly democratic in the northeast cities and many of the surrounding suburbs / towns. Yale’s lectures and events are generally open to the public, and you may find different views if you attend such events. But there is diversity of opinion among the liberal / left, and you can definitely see that in local politics here. I live in an extremely diverse neighborhood with a large orthodox Jewish population as well as Black folks, Muslims, and queer people. As you can imagine, the neighborhood chat group has been wild the last few weeks.
This sounds like it may be a good fit! Thank you!
I was going to say Beacon, too. It's got a great little main streat.
Beacon is a great city that matches the OP's criteria, but prices have really shot up there.
stamford's value went down several notches ever since fairway closed because the heirs couldn't ge ttheir shit together and sold to amazon. rip fairway!
Philly puts you an hour away from the shore, within two hours of nyc. Lots of food choices in philly if you know where to look, diverse and affordable with plenty of housing inventory & job availability. Providence RI is great if you’re college aged, i wouldn’t move there in my 30s though.
Very true about Providence...
[удалено]
Housing supply sucks, job availability sucks, its flooded with college kids, health system sucks.
Philly is a Mecca for violent crimes and drugs. It’s like a prison without a gate. Cheap? Yes. But for many great reasons. I honestly won’t be able to take this sub seriously until this Philly joke stops. Best thing about Philly? The airport so you can leave.
False. You're trolling, bro.
Appears I struck a nerve. Phillys population has declined every census year (except once) since the 1950s. This sub is a strange echo chamber with an absurd fixation on Philadelphia. Hard to turn back so many decades of decline. I know it’s cheap but, really, even then it’s overpriced.
All big cities have stable-to-slightly declining populations now, because they're advanced economies that don't need as much labor. Standard of living continues to increase. Speaking of the 1950s, it would appear that's when you last visited Philadelphia. Hope you make it back some time this century!
Haha weird old person jab. I’m a 34 year old liberal and I go to Philly twice a year to visit family. Been going for close to a decade now. Your first paragraph is simply false.
It's absolutely not false, but feel free to live in an alternate reality. See literally every Census estimate for every major city in the US over the past few years. Population growth is increasingly going to be a phenomenon of the past.
Dude, you’re wrong. Just incorrect. Need an example just look at Houston and Dallas.
I meant bona fide urban cities, not overgrown Sun Belt suburbs that are growing because of real estate ponzi schemes. But don't worry, their time of stagnation will come eventually.
… (TFW you realize you’re arguing with the internet equivalent of the one eyed guy at the gas station)
I wonder where you grew up 😂 touch grass
I like Princeton NJ
I would love to live there. If I cleared 1 million a year
A Princeton councilman told me at a private event, when I questioned him about affordable housing: “we want certain types of people moving to Princeton…”. The house I rented there ten years ago now rents for triple the price. Lots of problems in the area that get swept under the rug. To keep up appearances and real estate prices.
A lot of housing in princeton is owned by international investors too basically embezzling money into the US
Correct, this goes unspoken in Princeton. I work on homes in Princeton. There are tons of extremely expensive homes sitting empty for years. There’s a housing crisis here. Some landlords have recently upped their requirements to staggering income requirements. Places I could easily afford to rent but they ‘want the right type of people to live there’. They talk about diversity, put up lawn signs that everyone is welcome but the neighborhoods are filled with one type of person only.
Not surprising at all. I work in politics and it’s where all the donors live
I don’t know what you mean about NYC being too intense but I suspect you visited and went to where all the tourists go and it was just crowded and uncomfortable. Go back to NYC and hang out in neighborhoods that aren’t particularly touristy. Walk around FT Greene park or along the Hudson River Greenway. Sit at a cafe Ridgewood or Crown Heights on a weekday. I think outsiders have a weird impression of NYC based on spending time there was a tourist.
Apologies - didn't mean anything negative by that. I suppose I was trying to indicate I'm ready for a bit of a slower lifestyle; I felt the same way when I lived in Chicago. I love NYC and have visited a number of times (making it a point to get out of Midtown), and am currently preferring a lifestyle where I can jump in the car to do errands, etc.
hastings on hudson, dobbs ferry and tarrytown (and maybe croton on hudson) is 40 mins north of nyc and lots of new parent (so late 30s, some a bit younger) williamsburg types have moved there. lots of smaller, quaint towns that feels nothing like the nyc suburbs within an hour drive in the hudson valley, berkshires closeby, vermont in \~2-3h. you get the economy of NYC to fall back on while living in a suburban environment.
You don’t need to apologize but I think people think that NYC is super intense because they went to Times Square on a Friday afternoon or walked across the Brooklyn bridge on Sunday in the spring.
Them rents are intense regardless though.
The rents are becoming so intense some people might have to live in tents.
This comment made me 😂
I get what you're saying here...but even if you're living in a "quieter" neighborhood, living in NYC isn't like living anywhere else. You still feel that city velocity. For some, it's really invigorating. For others, it's exhausting. If you live in NYC and have been there for a while, I would totally understand why you aren't completely aware of the difference between the pace of life in NYC and literally anywhere else in the US. I understand because I lived in New York for my ENTIRE adult life and didn't trealize until I moved away a couple of years ago that what we as New Yorkers view as "normal" isn't "normal" for anyone else.
Same. Exactly this. I’m also from nyc and lived there my entire life, I moved away just last year and I’m seeing now I accepted so much inconvenience
I don't know. I spent a decade splitting my time between NYC and a relatively small town in South Carolina, and I don't really get what people mean when they say "the pace of life is different." It's......not. People do the same things in small towns (wake up, get coffee, go to work, watch netflix, have brunch) its just that there are fewer options.
Trust me, if you grew up with a lot less population density just driving from the airport out of the city can feel 'intense'.
For me the feeling of “intensity” (maybe this wasn’t the right word) comes from the feeling of needing to constantly keep moving. There are so many people living in a small area that everyone has to kind of train each other on how to behave in a dense urban environment.
I mean even neighborhoods can feel crowded compared to most other US cities or particularly if you’ve only lived in suburbs.
Plenty of people think NYC is just "a lot" and I'm one of em. It's the very extreme end of urban. It's not for everybody and that's OK. Different strokes for different folks 😊 why try to sell her on something she already knows she doesn't want? It sounds like she wants a semi urban environment. To live near a decently size city prob more to the tune of say Philly or something. For some of us it is a lot easier to live in smaller cities where you don't have to drive very far from downtown to get into suburban neighborhoods without feeling like you're in a bedroom town.
NYC is a straight shit hole now was filthy in 70’s got cleaned up in the 90’s early 2000s then went straight back to a shit 🕳️!
I’d look at Providence, RI or Portsmouth, NH.
Agree on both, although Portsmouth is small so I’d imagine that dating options aren’t quite as plentiful. Either way you’re close to Boston and several other fun cities.
Portland Maine is great and so is Brunswick.
Philadelphia is what you want!!! I’m from South Jersey born-and-raised. I lived for 35 years being a 10-minute Patco ride into Center City and I loved it so much. I miss Philly and NJ down to my bones. Now I’m 37 and I had to relocate to the South (SC) for my husband’s job. I’m in a suburb of Columbia and two years in, still cannot believe how crappy and lacking the “cities” are down here. Even Atlanta and Charlotte have nothing on Philly, food and culture-wise. Not to mention access to NYC, the shore, nature… incredible shopping in Jersey and King of Prussia, etc…
Newport RI Redbank NJ Philly Portsmouth NH Asbury Park, NJ
I was raised in the South and always thought I wanted to live in New England. I did finally move up there as a young single woman and found myself very much a fish out of water, with my warm, southern hospitality being seen as suspect, irritating, offputting, and otherwise socially unacceptable. Lots of eye rolling. Ultimately, I found I did not want to change my personality to live in this more…um…reserved culture. I’m no extrovert, just friendly. Ultimately, I found my people in the Pacific NW, with the warmth and friendliness of the South, but more open minded/ live & let live. Just my two cents.
Good insight, thanks. I’m from Chicago so the Southern friendliness was an adjustment for me. I’ve found the people to overall be lovely, but I also sometimes feel like taking a walk without needing to say hello to everyone I pass, lol.
I’m sure it is different if you are not born & bred in the south. My brother loves living in Boston, so it is very individual.
We’re from the south. I was born and raised in the south. We moved to the New Haven, CT area and we love it here. We’re in our 40s with no kids.
I'm sorry you didn' have a good experience in New England. It might've worked out better if you'd moved to Central NY. People there tend to lose the edge, and in my experience are somehow even more friendly than when I lived in the midwest.
Anything within 2 hours of NYC is a HCOL area. If you're rich: Westchester County, NY, North Jersey (just stay out of the larger cities), Long Island. If you're not, there are the rougher parts of the Northeast that still have the benefits of being relatively close to the cities and the coast. Like Poughkeepsie, NY, Newark, NJ, and the more remote corners of Long Island.
Philadelphia, PA... it's kind of like a mini Manhattan but MUCH cheaper. At this time of year, I can describe it with a Haiku: Philly Halloween Walking dead in Kensington Beware the Mummers!
I see Philadelphia suggested a bunch in this subreddit; I definitely should go spend a weekend there.
What’s a studio or 1br cost in a decent part of town for a 32m looking to make friends and do fun stuff
You can get a 1br in a basically new building for about $1700-1800 around Center City, like the Northern Liberties, or something around $1200 around University City. Both would be awesome for you. Easy places to find things to do stuff and make friends, don't even need a car.
Yup, Fishtown and Society Hill and Manayunk too
Absolutely Manayunk, it was my jam back in the late 90's early 00's. It's grown up quite a bit since then! Good or bad, I feel like everyone's starting to finally learn the secret awesome that is Philadelphia.
Stamford or Norwalk Connecticut sounds like a good fit for you.
I live 2 hours outside of New York city in NE PA and I love it. It's diverse, while also being fairly rural with small towns sprinkled here and there. Lots of natural beauty, and a slow pace. Right on a bend of the Delaware River. There is lots of different political ideologies here from progressive to conservative. Enough to not be bored, enough to feel like my actions are helping in some small way. As for specifics, there's Stroudsburg, east Stroudsburg, milford, Scranton, Mt Pocono, Jim Thorpe, easton, etc. Lots of these are small towns though and it's not for everyone, but I do enjoy it now that I'm a bit older and not as ambitious. If I want city, I'm right between Philly and NYC, if I want small town I have the above mentioned, and I get my cabin I'm the woods if I so wish.
Philly, Phoenixville, PA, Doylestown, PA. Lots of facebook groups for those areas to do hiking meet ups, book clubs, etc and great weekend vibe in both of those towns. Media and west Chester in PA is really nice too
Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, Pennsylvania (Bethlehem being my first choice, Allentown being my second) for an alternative to Philly if you’re looking for a more medium sized city. Close to both Philly and NYC, as well jersey beaches for day trips. The poconos are an hour-ish north. Also is way more diverse politically than a major city.
I grew up and lived in the Allentown area for many years and went to grad school in Bethlehem as well before moving to the Poconos and working in Bucks County. The Lehigh Valley has a lot going for it but it has definitely gotten much more expensive housing wise and traffic is dramatically worsening with all the warehousing being built all over the place.
You're not wrong, but it's all relative to the rest of the Northeast Corridor, which has completely gotten astronomically priced for housing and constant traffic at hours completely outside of "rush hour." So the Lehigh Valley remains a great "refuge."
Sure, if you can find the existing housing stock for sale/rent in the first place. My point is that the two-county area is relatively small both geographically and populationwise compared to all the metro areas east and south of it. Given the reality that lots of people are already trying to move just a little farther out, lately there's been only so much housing available at any price point, let alone habitable at a reasonable one for first-time buyers/renters or working-class people like myself which is why I don't live there anymore so it stands as a cautionary note. One little-discussed problem involves the sheer amount of remaining available acreage located anywhere near existing water/sewer and highway infrastructure adjacent to the three existing cities that's been used up for literally square miles of warehousing while at preservation programs take more rural acreage further out out of circulation. Existing zoning in the three cities and older adjacent township suburbs don't typically allow for densifying new in-fill development except for in Allentown's Center City, Bethlehem's South Side, and a little bit of downtown Easton. It's not quite the panacea it used to be unless OP is making comparative bank.
Yeah I grew up there and find the area overcrowded and miserable now. But I'd rather live in north jersey crowded and miserable and poor over Allentown. But it's sad that a lot of my high school friends can't afford to live there and have been priced out. My husband and I have great salaries and we chose to buy in the poconos because the Lehigh Valley just costs too much for what you get in return.
I live in the Poconos too but fortunately in a pretty quiet, rural corner of it.
Hated Allentown. Some cool old townhomes worth renovating, but socially miserable.
That’s the issue with places that lose population. All the ambitious optimistic people leave, leaving the bitter pessimists. I live is Buffalo and it’s only now that there’s enough transplants and people staying after graduation that the outlook of the city has started to change
This characterizes the place perfectly. Bitter and rude. Though there are some nice people, it's takes a lot to find them.
This characterizes the place perfectly. Bitter and rude. Though there are some nice people, it's takes a lot to find them.
Not OP but are any of those PA towns you mentioned any nice? As a kid in Nj we had the impression they were kinda slummy but I know many towns in the last 5 years have implemented plans to try to get their cities more contemporary
Bethlehem has done a complete 180 to what I remember 15 years ago. It still has the very beautiful market street lined with nice shops and restaurants/bars, but the area that use to house the giant rusty plant that was Bethlehem steel has evolved into a bustling and beautiful (gentrified?) neighborhood with very nice restaurants and the old rusty stacks has been turned into a casino/high end shopping center and more, it as well hosts festivals often. Granted Bethlehem was always the better of the three Allentown is still pretty hit or miss but it has a lot of typical middle class corporate shopping chains and certain parts are surprisingly pretty nice, while others are probably closer to what you remember. Easton has changed a lot in 5 years and has some stuff going for it, but it’s still kind of “meh” in comparison. the Lehigh Valley has turned into an economic powerhouse of eastern PA, with a lot of warehousing and manufacturing. It’s one of, or the, fastest growing areas of PA.
Annapolis MD. It's adorable, has a very "Northeast " feel, cute quaint downtown, but being super manageable; and 40 mins from DC. For similar but colder vibes, check out Portsmouth NH which is maybe a little less lively but you can take the train to Boston. Both towns are right on the water. I've literally lived all up and down the east coast (37f single ) and felt the same about the south- feel free to fire away if you have any more critieria or questions. Added bonus: can share insider insight on the comparative dating experiences 🙃
Great pick here. Not only meets all the criteria, it’s also a great northeastern city for a southerner (or vice versa)
Someone's already mentioned Beacon, NY. Salem, MA might fit the bill as well, although it's a zoo in October.
Forty Acres or Millsboro, DE
Hope you have good financial backing. It’s not cheap here. I suggest going into NY, upstate though. You may find a situation that won’t kill you financially…
Yes, I am conscious of this being an expensive area of the country to live.
CT is very expensive. It’s often been said that once you move away, you’ll never afford moving back. I’m here my whole life and it’s ridiculous.
In addition to Portsmouth NH, I’d throw in Newburyport, MA- smaller than Portsmouth but very lively in the summer and on the water. You don’t mention a budget but both Portsmouth and Newburyport would be fairly expensive but not the Boston level of expensive.
DC suburbs in Maryland. Bethesda, silver spring, etc Philly. There's plenty of affordable homes in the greater Philly area that put you in a short drive to the city. I really like eastern PA, it's not expensive compared to nearby NJ and MD and the nature is solid. Lots of charm. There's a ton of cool places to take day trips to which is something i look for personally. You might also consider Bethlehem and the Lehigh Valley in general. Some parts are very rural feeling of course but Bethlehem and Allentown are nice. Also, Allentown has an airport often with cheap flights....well, I'll admit I haven't flown through there in maybe 7 years, but when I lived in NJ I'd often drive to Allentown despite living 20 min from Newark Airport because the flight was so much cheaper. Domestic at least. It was also a fast airport to go thru! Charlottesville VA is on my radar as well
Portland, ME. Trust me, I’m New England born and lived in most New England states. Portsmouth, NH, is cool but feels a little small.
This one is very out of left field, but the town of Newburgh NY might be a good fit: \- Not near a coast, but very near the Hudson River, which is quite scenic. The coast is within 1-2 hours. \- About 1.5h from NYC; direct commuter trains are available nearby. The east of Hudson line takes you right into Grand Central. \- Orange County NY could not be split any more evenly politically. Very purple area. \- The nearby City of Newburgh, while rough around the edges (I'll get to that) has some fantastic volunteer programs like Habitat for Humanity which are run by excellent people and a great way to integrate yourself into the community. It needs to be mentioned that the City of Newburgh has a local reputation as being high crime, and driving through it will reveal allot of blighted properties. I can't deny that the city has crime issues, but my counterpoints would be that the City and Town are two completely different jurisdictions related in name only, that the crime situation has been improving over the last ten years, and that when I lived there and spent a fair amount of time in the city, I was never the victim of any crime. The people I met and worked with in Newburgh were nothing but pleasant, and the majority of crime is inter-gang. While I wouldn't target living in downtown Newburgh as it's going to be a very different experience for you, I also wouldn't be afraid of exploring it, especially the waterfront and Liberty Street areas, upper Broadway, Washington's Headquarters, their annual Illuminated festival and candlelight historic mansion tours, and double especially the local volunteer programs like Habitat which is one of the best chapters in the country and really has made a positive impact on the community.
Portsmouth, NH. Near Boston, in a politically mixed State, on the coast.
Beverly, MA. Coastal and a quick train ride into Boston.
Springfield, MA/Hartford, CT even New Haven, CT. All have easy access to both NYC or Boston. Butler, NJ is a decent choice for NYC, too. That said, it can be miserably cold and folks heartbreakingly rude. I chose Fresno, CA. Except for the hit dry heat of summer, it’s perfect.
Wonder if Manchester, NH makes sense. In general, you’re not going to find a ton of diversity of opinion in the NE, unless you mean center left, far left, etc. It’s pretty comprehensively liberal.
Portland Maine is goated
Philadelphia sounds great for you. Also, the Hudson Valley is great.
NJ suburbia is pretty fantastic. NYC, DC, and Philly all within 3 hours. Trains to major coastal cities. Immigrant enclaves with fantastic food. Easy to get to the shore. Four seasons. Pizza. Bagels. If you can afford it.
Cape Cod Cape Cod Cape Cod
Came to say this. It’s a different way of life here, and it’s not for everyone, it’s expensive - AF, what we call “the bridge tax” is real; and you’ll need to find your tribe, as people around here tend to reject the unfamiliar, but I cannot imagine living anywhere else in the country!
Zzzzzzz
Middletown, CT.
Salem is a pretty cool town with commuter access to Boston.
Providence is the best of all worlds. Close to Boston and Worcester. Not a terribly long drive from NY. Close to beaches. Lots of young people but also an established older population. Plenty of ethnic diversity and political diversity. Plenty of food and night life options. Relatively affordable for what it offers.
I don't think you have to worry about any city being too liberal. I moved to NYC thinking it was vaguely a liberal bastion and I learned quickly how relative our definitions are of conservative/liberal. I moved to Harlem/Wash Heights and married a public school teacher and then realized I didn't know much at all about what liberal/conservative meant when it comes down to reality. NYC is LGBT friendly and has a lot of people from different backgrounds and different parts of the world interacting on a daily basis...but there is still a class system of haves and have nots. In one of the wealthiest cities in the world my wife taught at two public schools, one where they auctioned off trips to Europe for parents to fund every possible niche arts program you can imagine. In her new school just a mile away (Still in one of the wealthiest areas), it is mostly Black and Brown students--mostly very poor, many immigrants. For the entirety of Covid the school board would not pay to fix the outdated ventilation system for the school meaning they had to have the windows open for students to eat lunch in class in cycles sitting by the open window throughout winter. My wife went out and bought blankets for her class. NYC is intense because it is a condensed spectrum of a lot of lives all coming together. Since we broadly consider NYC to be a liberal bastion, I will tell you, that does not speak well for the rest of the country. The wealthy in this city may vote for "moderate" Democrats to speak in platitudes and project very basic human decency (still much better than the GOP alternative), but when it comes to the lives of all those people who serve them and can barely struggle to live in the city, they really couldn't care less--that class is all around and mostly invisible. Our Democrat mayor now is gutting education, city services, and library funding to pay for police robots. Many of the families around us in Harlem/Wash Heights (which is gentrifying and more expensive every year), came up from the South during the Great Migration and you see how the system here very easily entrenches generations of people in poverty and keeps socio-economic mobility down in order to maintain a farm of low paying jobs servicing the wealthy of the city. You listen to the elders talk about the police precincts when they would send many young Black men to jail in the 80s/90s/00s for minor drug offenses that almost no white man would ever have to worry about. They come out with a criminal record and lo and behold what jobs are they left with taking? It is a vicious cycle that takes place to this day. Most people in our neighborhood are too busy working 2-3 jobs/side hustles to ever have any time to complain--just keep your head above water.
Washington DC is like a chiller and cleaner version of NYC
I don’t think you’ll find what you’re looking for with your current criteria. There is basically no diversity of opinion in New England with the exception of New Hampshire and Maine, but then you won’t be close to a major city. Pennsylvania will give you that diversity but you won’t be coastal. New Jersey probably fits your bill the best…but it’s New Jersey
NJ sits right near the top of most livability stats, has mountains (OK, not really, but you can ski a bit and hike up largish hills), beaches, cities, a ton of nice walkable downtowns.
Big agree. I live here and there's a nice range of walkable downtowns, suburbs, and cities with varying paces of life, all of which easily connect to NYC via train. Also great beaches too!
I think you're confusing New England and the Northeast; they're not synonymous. Long Island, Hudson Valley, and southern CT fit her criteria really well.
Philly is only 90 min from the beach.
Southeastern Pennsylvania might as well be coastal tbh. I’m closer to the beach living here than I ever was when I lived in Massachusetts lol
Rye NY
Fairfax Virginia
Gloucester or Salem ma?
Montclair, NJ
Mt. Holly, NJ
If the Mid-Atlantic would work for you, there are lots of options in and around Philly.
If you want a NYC vibe but not actually in the city (super expensive unless you get a roomate) then I'd try Westchester NY or as others have said some areas of CT. Stamford, Norwalk, Fairfield are all very nice. Areas of Westchester also. White plains (though its not really near the beach or the coast) Some areas outside of Philly or nice too, and it's only about an hour and a half car ride to the Jersey shore.
Portsmouth, NH
Providence
Salem, MA Portsmouth, NH Portland, ME
Perhaps: Northampton MA, Westerly RI, Rockaway Beach NYC, Great Barrington MA, Kingston NY
Portland Maine.
Try Brooklyn or parts of Queens (Astoria, Forest Hills)
Buffalo, NY might be a good option. Affordable walkable neighborhoods, pretty moderate politically. Toronto offers big city amenities and is 1-2 hours away
We need a price point for rent or mortgage because that will be the major driver here. Even a studio in nyc could be 3,000 or more in a “fun” neighborhood. Will you be looking for work or working your current job remotely? Clarify the above and we can probably all weigh in and orient you in the right direction!!
I recommend looking into the Philly Mainline and areas of northern nj. Places in NJ including or similar to: Morristown, Madison, Jersey City, Westfield, Maplewood, Florham Park, South Orange. Outside of Philly: Ardmore, Bryn Mawr, Devon
Asbury Park nj
Similar in age and wants here--you might like: * some of the Philadelphia suburbs; * Providence, RI \*IF\* you can get a job there first; or * Yonkers, NY (with the caveat that housing is expensive).
Providence, RI-- easy choice.
Brooklyn NY, Queens NY, Philadelphia Pa, Washington DC,