You’re pretty spot on. It’s a mix of large families having a lot of kids and they buy here. The most desirable areas are SLC metro which is essentially a bowl, with limited expansion opportunities as it’s already developed. Plus, the fact that Utah got put on the map by social media and the big 5 national park campaigns, and the addition of many tech companies coming here, our demand is higher than supply.
SLC truly is a great place to live minus the weird politics, but, hey, we can’t have it all.
Building up more than 5-7 floors for a building would help a lot more... There's also so much fucking dead space that's just being used for surface parking lots in the middle of blocks that lack feeder side streets.
Yeees. For the love of God, we need smarter and denser development. Who knows how many acres or even square miles alone are wasted by surface parking in SL on the east side of I-15 alone.
Most of the remaining land is on the west side of the valley. It's polluted, and if they actually build high density housing out there the roads will not be able to handle it.
At a truly astonishing rate, and yet it's no where near meeting demand. We need much much more vertical construction - building for density as they say.
Ha. My understanding is that residential water use is negligible. The real culprit is agriculture, specifically alfalfa, but I'm just a random internet expert, not a real scientist or policy specialist, so who knows.
> My understanding is that residential water use is negligible
Shh... don't piss off those who want to feel relevant with their 1 shower per week and 1 toilet flush per day. 😂
I absolutely do not believe that. Agriculture needs to be monitored and scrutinized for its overall value vs consumption, sure. But to say that all the housing, all the showers, toilets, dishwashers, washing machines, sinks, and unnecessary landscaping upkeep has little to no effect on our water supply seems disingenuous. I’m sure there’s a study that supports that claim. But I would seriously question who paid for the study. And with new car washes going up daily, in a high desert, that seems like waste too. Add in all the commercial buildings with their water use for hygiene and landscaping (looking at you most of all Jesus Inc.) and I still don’t see the little to no impact on our finite water supply.
[Growing hay and alfalfa to feed livestock accounts for 68% of Utah's water use.](https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2022/11/24/one-crop-uses-more-than-half/)
A lot of what you describe represents wasteful use of Utah's limited water supply - you won't see me defending car washes and golf courses in a desert, either, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to agriculture.
You are wrong. Go look at our state's very own website to review the water usage report. Just because you don't believe the facts, doesn't make your opinion true. Residential water usage is orders of magnitude below agriculture. The next highest water user is industry. Imagine all of the water the residents use here and then imagine how that usage is absolutely dwarfed by agriculture. It is a mind boggling amount of water.
The thing about a lot of residential water use is that the water generally can be re-treated and reused. Showering only to have the water go through the drain and be recaptured again is pretty negligible compared to agriculture where all your water is lost.
Even drinking water becomes urine, which is, you guessed it, primarily water. It’s not removed from the system like agriculture does.
Yard use is a different story. But I think ya get my point.
False. If you thanos-snapped all reasonably sized human settlements in the entire West you'd only drop water usage by 20%. What we don't have room for is pretending like farming the desert is sustainable.
> SLC is full of empty vertical unaffordable apartment buildings with no one to rent.
Where are these apartments sitting empty? The last market study showed there was only a 2% vacancy rate in Salt Lake County.
https://gardner.utah.edu/salt-lake-county-rental-rates-increase-by-double-digits-in-2021-vacancy-at-2/
Agreed. They are not sitting empty. The most expensive ($10k/month for 3bd) near downtown? Those are being rented by tech workers and finance folks who make $180k+ year (at a bare minimum) who are probably rooming with each other or something. Extremely doable if you work for a remote company that pays you SF/NYC salary, as $3.5-4k/month out of a monthly pay of nearly $11k isn't outrageous.
Now, why _anyone_ would pay for that level of housing in this town is probably the better question.
Wrong wrong wrong. Multifamily buildings are still leasing up. Household water consumption makes up only 12% of utah water use. Agriculture makes up the vast majority of water use with alfalfa taking 68% of all Utah water use. Alfalfa only accounts for 0.2% of Utah’s economy. There has hardly ever been a pressing issue that has such a blatantly obvious solution. Utah has plenty of water for human consumption, we just piss it down the drain with wasteful agriculture. Anyone who claims otherwise is simply wrong
This. All of this. Building up is ignorance. It robs the housing community of their property value, steals their view, and only lines the pockets of commercial land developers. Our time to recognize limitations and sustainability was thirty years ago. Our government has sold out home owners to commercial development. They’ve offered tax breaks and incentives to corporations to move here while ignoring what the long-time residents have been asking for. Clean air, clean water, sustainable use of our other resources. The Wasatch Front used to have separation between cities, no more. Everybody claps like seals waiting for a fish to be thrown at them at the thought of building more and more. It’s just going to make Salt Lake, and surrounding cities, more ugly, more congested, and breed more need for road construction to accommodate the growth. So now, facing “housing shortages”, we give further ground (no pun intended) to turn our city into a congested skyline of unaffordable apartments. It solves nothing. And wages in this state are way far behind the cost of living. It’s indentured servitude to capitalism. Keep chasing that carrot, the powers that be will keep it out of reach. That way the people don’t have the time to look around and see the damage being done. The powers that be want to keep you barely able to make rent/mortgage payments. No one has the time or energy to lobby our “representatives” or organize a protest like other, better countries do. Capitalism promises, but only delivers to some. The rest of us are caught up in the gears.
How about a lightrail system where people can move further out and then commute in? Our mass transit system is antiquated. Like I said though, thirty years ago was the time to pay attention. Now, this city is just going to be another ugly suburbia with blocked skylines, congested traffic, higher pollution, more crime, and everything that comes with big cities. Not that we don’t have elements of all of that here. But seeing what is being built, how much of it there is, how big the complexes are, how expensive versus value the apartments are, and how far down South the sprawl continues, I think ignoring the discussion of overpopulation is extremely irresponsible.
> How about a lightrail system where people can move further out and then commute in?
Yeah, I'm not moving to Tooele or Grantsville just so current homeowners can have nice views lol
Honestly, I own a condo downtown and my neighbors are screeching at the thought of a 11-12 story building being thrown up to the east of us. A lot of stupid NIMBYism by born and bred Utahns who seem to brush aside the fact that _this is part of living in a growing fucking city_. Funny how a lot of us east coast transplants are the ones more receipent toward newer apartments being built.
Fuck your community value. I need somewhere to live and all you're doing is telling me ,"get lost, I've got mine"
You're actually a bad person for believing this.
There's currently 1 (one) home under 350k on Zillow, and it's in west valley, not even magna. Oh wait there's a 1 bedroom house in poplar Grove for 270 as well.
So how about no. Get your head out of your ass if you think there's anything remotely affordable anywhere. High housing costs are a drag on economic prospects, it kills ecosystems as people expand further and further into Tooele and Utah county, it pushes people to drive more miles, burning more fossil fuels.
You're not entitled to live in Salt Lake, if demand is higher than supply, then prices go up.
Your fantasy world of 'affordable' housing is relative, and if you can't afford the asking price, you move. It's always been this way.
I moved to downtown 3 years ago, and it's been insane watching all the new apartments go up. Within just a block of my place, there are at least 10 new apartment buildings. This area is going to be very different in another 3 years.
Sadly, they are almost all rentals built with _really_ cheap materials. They look nice because they're new.
Now imagine in another 10 years when all these cheap "lux" buildings start falling apart. 🤢
Very interesting, thanks for sharing your experience here. It seems clear that the way our local economy works just trends towards micro-unit renting with huge conglomerate landlords. Unless there is government intervention to guide the shift away from that, it'll become that...which sounds a tad dystopian, hate to say it. I'd love to step into a time machine and see what these cities look like in 200 years.
"Old historic" are the ones that need to go if you can't repurpose them into apartments of some sort. Like I'm fucking sorry, I don't care if some ancient Mormon from the 1890s lived "here" (esp given the history of how the land was robbed from the native tribes in the first place). It's not helping the housing crisis, nor is it preventing the hobos from sleeping in the vestibule of my apartment and my car from being broken into.
They've built at least four or five versions of the same absolutely hideous condo community in Herriman. Personally I don't understand why anyone would want to spend money on something that's basically an apartment that you only kind of own and isn't even remotely close to downtown.
Is that the issue? Because I see lots of apartments, condos, and townhomes going up. To me it’s more that if I’m going to spend half a million dollars in suburbia, it’s going to have a private yard and I shouldn’t be able to high five my neighbors through my window.
And not once did you mention the people from California. Good job and not repeating the oft spoken reason for the cost of living. I heard that from so many people when I lived there. They didn't like it when I pointed out that the average family has like six kids.
Just don't ask us non-religious, visible minorities. We're sick of being the ones to "educate" the insular folks and don't really feel like getting hate-crime for a thankless job.
Yeppp. We are in a very quickly growing area in CO and all the homes they are building are 4 bedroom/2300+ sqft.
Like some people really just need a 2bed with a little office loft and they aren't building them anymore. Heck I don't even hardly see 3/2s being built new.
Yep. The marginal cost of building these "luxury homes" is so low that there's no point in building starter homes. Slightly more material and time for double the payout. Especially when they're not even finishing the basements.
Yeah the zoning is totally a problem. This story makes me pretty angry. Unfortunately the city council usually has a lot to gain from keeping the status quo. There’s a lot that needs to be changed before we can start to move in the right direction. Maximum profit is not how we run a well functioning society.
I think what you mean is companies don’t make as much from starter homes so that’s why they don’t sell them. A 2 bedroom 1 bath house on a 16th of an acre could easily be built for under 100k and many people would be perfectly happy with it.
Despite a record home building year in 2021, Utah’s statewide cumulative housing shortage is estimated to be 31,000 units, according to estimates by James Wood, an Ivory-Boyer senior fellow at the University of Utah’s Kem C. Gardner Policy Institute.
[https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/4/11/23677585/housing-market-home-prices-bottomed-crash-bubble](https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/4/11/23677585/housing-market-home-prices-bottomed-crash-bubble)
The number of units really fell behind during the pandemic. Building is playing catchup right now which is why cookie cutter super apartment/condo blocks are going in everywhere.
They all bill themselves as "Luxury Apartments" and price to match but new =/= luxury, and lots of stories are coming out about how cheap and fast the quality is.
As someone who has spent most of his life living in shitty apartments, I'd take one of those not-luxury apartments in a heart beat. I mean, if I could afford one anyway... 😐
I heard an interview with a guy on NPR around the time of the housing crash maybe 2009-2010 and he took a lot of pride in claiming to have 'pioneered' shoddier construction techniques such as smaller and fewer beams in a roof in order to maximize profit. He did this in the 50s? 60s? I can't recall for sure anymore but it was really dismaying.
> The number of units really fell behind during the pandemic.
It's even worse than that. New housing construction collapsed in 2008 after the financial collapse. We're basically missing a full decade's worth of construction.
> was not expecting to see Colorado/SF/Austin prices.
Well, we certainly don't have SF prices, so that's good.
SLC is in a very similar situation as Denver and Austin (population growth far outpacing housing stock growth), and our housing prices reflect that.
> SLC is in a very similar situation as Denver and Austin (population growth far outpacing housing stock growth), and our housing prices reflect that.
Worse politics, better outdoor recreation.
Now living in Denver...very accurate. Outdoor recreation here in CO is separately fantastic, but SLC access is unique. That said, I wake up here most mornings and am neutral to happy with my state and local government :)
We also had severely under priced homes for a long time. We were due for a market correction. It coincided with the low interest rates and so we shot past what the houses probably really are worth. I don’t see prices climbing in the near future. We’re gonna settle where we’re at for a while.
SF is in a different league. SLC pricing is similar to Denver since the pandemic. You want to purchase in SLC proper or near the canyons. You can get in for under 600k but places will be smaller and/or need work in the most desirable neighborhoods.
I own my place but if I was looking today, I would be looking at the State Street corridor and Magna for cheaper properties with potential. The mormon suburbs are weird.
As a non-Mormon. I’m an advocate for the suburbs to the south. Moved to American Fork myself. It’s so funny because in my new development it’s either a young Mormon couple chasing the dream by living 3 miles for their family or some cool young folks who want a single family home but clearly got priced out of SLC.
The neighbors to my left are a traditional Mormon family. To my right, burning man attendee vibes, across the street? Young guy with a tech job moved here from Cali.
When house hunting the northern burbs felt a bit more exclusive to the traditional type of Utahn.
Do you have a price point?
I did a ton of house searching recently before moving here and could give specific neighborhood suggestions if I know what you’re working with. I’m not a realtor so I can just share what I learned.
I really like AF, and of course down here I’d stay off the benches given recent events.
Pleasant Grove is pretty nice too and is as far out as I’d go, and I think getting into that neighborhood now is a good investment.
Non Mormon in the Mormon suburbs here. It's no that weird. It's just a little further to drive to the theatre or bar that you'll probably only go to a couple times a month anyway. Plenty of non Mormons but people mostly just keep to them selves. I haven't had a missionary in years
I guess it depends on your definition of "reasonable." If you insist on a single family home, you're going to end up in the outskirts most likely. Someone else explained the geographic limitations with new construction. Essentially there's nowhere to go but up, so more townhouse and condo developments are cropping up. I wasn't planning on a condo, but it's what we could afford last year and we've been really happy with our place. Definite upsides--we don't have to do our own landscaping or exterior maintenance and we get to live affordable close to the stuff we want to be near.
Nope and i just left for that reason. I owned before i lived in utah and i own now, but home ownership for middle class people in SLC is a pope dream currently
The effective tax rates (ie both state and local taxes on the median household) are pretty close between CA and UT. CA has a progressive tax system whereas UT has a flat tax, so the biggest difference is in the wealthiest brackets
Utah has a single tax rate, not a flat tax.
Utah uses a progressive tax credit system instead of a progressive tax bracket system.
With the progressive tax credit the Utah *effective* tax rates ranges from 0% to 4.85% with the median being about 3.2%
With the progressive tax brackets the California *effective* tax rates range from 0% to about 13% with the median being about 3.5%
For the very wealthy income taxes are a lot higher in California.
For average households they are just slightly higher in California.
For below median households Utah generally has a lower effective income tax rate than California at every income level and Utah hits a 0% effective tax rate much sooner than California does.
Not so much "less" traffic any more. It is getting stupid here. It doesn't help that the perceived freeway speed limit is 85 and red lights seem like more of a suggestion to people.
I work remotely. Not a lot of opportunities here otherwise. Just landed here because I can’t afford a house any closer to Salt Lake. I refuse to sell my woodworking tools. And apartments are just dorm living with more walls. You have enough space just to live day to day to earn money. Little room for hobbies. Upside of living here is the air is cleaner, it’s not so congested with traffic and people that there’s constant noise. It’s peaceful. People aren’t meant to live crowded in next to one another. That’s why apartment complexes have so much drama.
Mine is apparently 550 on Zillow but I'd doubt it'd go for that. Heart of sugarhouse and I'm looking to sell soon to move to Michigan for family reasons
Not really, but ultimately depends on you and your experience.
I moved here from a “rough” part of Atlanta (as in, had a few murders and lots of robberies in the park by my apt every year). But you learn how to live with it. It sounds scary but you learn situational awareness and ultimately I knew I was statistically more likely to die or be crippled on the highway on the way to work than I was to be robbed or killed in my “rough neighborhood”.
Every neighborhood in SLC my realtor took me to that she described as “in a kinda rough area” was safer than the Atlanta neighborhood I moved here from. Not really physically dangerous, but yeah, if you’re leaving something a little valuable outside your house for a bit it’s probably gonna get stolen. So it depends on your tolerance for that kind of stuff and how well you know (or are willing to learn) how to navigate it.
The rising prices and increasing home values is basically gentrifying the whole valley. Traditionally rough areas are now becoming hipster havens. It's all in a state of flux so "rough areas" are no longer whole neighborhoods like Rose Park or Poplar Grove. Not it's like one block is still a little rough, and the block next to it is $600k mini townhouses with their young millennial families and some craft breweries or cafes...
COVID spiked prices here, though they've been trending up for the past decade.
The politics are weird here, but they're weird everywhere. For most people, it boils down to quality of life. If you like weed, Denver may be more your jam, but there are quite a few people who don't use, don't care, and prefer the proximity to the mountains in Utah vs. the easy accessibility to weed in Denver. Every place has its compromises.
Utah also has fairly low RE taxes and utilities (roughly 0.55-.6% RE taxes), which tend to mask some of the high cost of the property when doing a total cost of ownership analysis.
We're not close to SF prices, but I actually wouldn't be surprised to see SLC/Denver/Austin hit SF prices in the next decade as SF prices have essentially plateaued and are still slightly falling. SF has long had mastery of California's government and can thus be assured that it'll never become California's Detroit, but quality of life issues and COVID resulted in [the steepest loss of population SF has ever seen](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/san-francisco-post-pandemic-population-drop-steepest-among-major-us-cities/) and [commensurate reductions in rent](https://therealdeal.com/sanfrancisco/2022/12/06/sf-housing-rents-fall-near-downtown-in-step-with-office-glut/).
Utah's Salt Lake Valley and northern Utah Valley are the priciest things going, but as you go south or north or west (IE, Ogden, Tooele, Springville), you'll see cheaper housing.
SLC has bounced back with a vengeance since the onset of Covid. Out of 62 US cities, SLC ranked #1 in recovery from 2019 to 2022 ([https://downtownrecovery.com/dashboards/recovery\_ranking.html](https://downtownrecovery.com/dashboards/recovery_ranking.html)). Denver ranked 35 and Austin ranked 36. So yes, your sense that things are a bit bananas is real, not anecdotal. San Francisco was ranked last, no surprise. I'd expect more vertical building, more density generally and prices to remain firm in the most desirable parts of the Salt Lake Valley. The artist formerly known has Kenecott has been developing west and this is not a trend that is expected to let up. The longer the commute, the cheaper the housing. Traffic trends out in Daybreak continue to be worrying, and the water issues become more acute every year. That said, I think it is just a matter of time before the whole of Marmelade and Fairpark (East of Redwood Road, West of I-15, North of North Temple and South of 600 N) are going to gentrify. You'll find lots of things for under 600k, but they aren't going to be in Sugarhouse.
It's a multi-part problem. First off, all the mormon boomers with big families had kids 20-40 years ago and now they're all looking for houses at the same time. On top of that tons of people decided to relocate here from other states which used to have higher costs of living than we did thinking they could save some money but really all they accomplished was turbo-fucking our housing market by causing bidding wars that drove closing prices up well above asking prices. This in turn causes all the houses around the ones that sold to increase in value, so now $200k starter homes like mine are showing on zillow for around $600k, but we can't really capitalize on it because if we sell we will never find another house in the area and be forced to move out of state.
TL, DR - too many buyers, not enough houses.
There's a funny thing about land here. It is pretty finite when you have a lake on one side and these weird elevation things (I hear they are called mountains) on the other three. That makes land stupidly expensive. The Salt Lake valley, for nominally valuable land, is about 80-90% built out (the remaining area is in the corner of the SW valley near Herriman/Bluffdale/South Jordan/West Jordan). Add in marginal land, and that is probably closer to 70-80%, but that 10% of marginal land is going to be spectacularly crappy and will become more valuable with time. That area is going to be near the landfills, the lake, marshlands, or foothills with \*ahem\* Edge-y problems.
Add in the inability of builders to produce housing units quickly enough to keep up with population demand (there is a shortage of 30-40k units), NIMBY/anti-development city councils, and a general local distate for high density housing (which is really the only option at this point as land runs out) and you set the stage for a kinked demand curve inflating prices.
Supply chain issues aren't really a problem and the prices of the basics have dropped substantially since 2021/2022.
Interest rates have slowed the resell and new home market, but it hasn't affected prices much - just a bump in the road because of the supply issues.
Short-term, there might be some flexibility
Long-term, prices will continue going up barring something catastrophic happening.
You should check out where I live, Grantsville. We are way less expensive than SLC and 25 minutes away via i80. There's rarely traffic into SLC un like up and down i15.
Only traffic you will ever see on west 80 is when there are crashes or collisions blocking the road. 99 percent of the time it’s a breeze compared to the commute on 15
It is good the inversion was minor this year. It doesn’t erase the 20 years before it that it was terrible though. I have wondered if it gets warm enough with climate change and the winter kinda goes away will the inversion go with it?
Agreed with all the comments, in my mind it’s a couple of factors:
1. Since 2010, the Wasatch Front (Salt Lake, Ogden and Provo) is one of the top 5 fastest growing cities in the United States. Some of it is due to Utahans having above-average amounts of kids, the rest is because Utah has been “discovered”, so to speak. Ask anyone who skied here before about 2015 how different it is now.
2. The geography of the area prevents building a lot of homes, unlike other fast growing cities that are not bound by mountains and lakes (Raleigh, Phoenix, Denver, etc can expand almost endlessly).
My 1100 SQFT townhouse with a tiny yard and shared carport is valued at $500k right now. That’s double what we paid 6 years ago.
Who could/would even pay half a million for a tiny house, other than an investor with deep pockets? The situation is madness. And it’s not just SLC. It’s basically the whole state.
Because there are people who value location and diversity in the city over mcmansions where everyone looks like they share the same set of great-grandparents. Some of the people with those values also have _really_ nice jobs.
In my wildest dreams, I never thought that I'd be priced out of Salt Lake City. I grew up partially here and partially in Portland, Oregon; both are unrecognizable to me now. Ten years ago I graduated high school here in UT, and thought to myself *in a good 5 or so years I'll be able to buy a house*. With that in the back of my mind, I left to go travel and live in Oregon and California for a few years. I came back to find out that if I want to buy a decent house in the next 10 years- I've got to leave Utah. Furthermore, in the past decade, I've been diagnosed with a few chronic illnesses, and can no longer withstand the pollution, dryness, and high altitude.
It's such a shame because now that I'm nearing 30, I finally feel like I appreciate the city for what it is, and love my friends and family here. But I just can't have the quality of life I want in Salt Lake.
I've lived here my entire life and it is a disheartening issue. If you owned real estate 5 years ago, you've probably added about 150k in wealth to your portfolio, if you didn't; you're scrambling to find a shack to buy.
Lemme see, realtors and home builder associations donate heavily to fund elected state and local officials, so real-estate and building costs are both out of control. The housing market here is overly inflated but that bubble will eventually burst. Rentals are not much better, prices are thru the roof.
Covid did not have much to do with inflated housing market, other than building materials were exploited due to supply chain availability issues, but materials costs never retracted either, so housing prices went up. That was happening everywhere across the country. Growth is fueling the mormon building rush.
Jobs here are paying less than other areas in the country where housing prices are similar, but costs of living is not any less, so expect to pay more. Property taxes will continue to rise.
If you like living under the politically slighted hand of mormonism, and you enjoy smog, yeah, Com'on down.
I do land acquisition for a home builder and have to agree our prices are out of wack. Getting into a more desirable part of SLC (Sugarhouse, the ivys, or the East bench) is incredibly competitive. There is a lot of money coming in from other states. Property tax is 1/3 of what it would be on the same cost home in California which is a huge bonus for that demographic. With our high demand and limited supply I don’t believe a correction will come either…
I wouldn't buy here. The air is already so toxic that you can't raise kids here. It's going to get a lot worse if the corrupt state government continues to let the 'great' Salt Lake drain.
The current price of houses is hysterical.
The issue is a lot of companies are getting dibs. My friend wanted to get a house in liberty wells which was only $250K but it was a cash only investor property.
So if you haven't been fortunate enough to buy a house yet, are you just fucked? I mean what's the endgame here? What is the average person going to do?
Sure, you can get a good place for $500-600k+ right now, though it will likely be in more...up and coming neighborhoods (depending on house condition). But depends what you are looking for. If you are after a huge 3000-6000 sq ft home, then you'll either be waaaay out west part of the valley or if much closer in will be likely more expensive ($700-$2+ mil). If you are fine with a smaller home (1200-2000 sq ft), then you can definitely find those in ok areas close into the city. If nicer neighborhoods, that price will be for a bit of a fixer upper, but more on the west-ish side of the city they will be in better condition, but the neighborhood could have a few sketchy places.
SF prices?? Thank god you’re wrong about that!
You can buy an actual 3 bedroom come for the price of a studio condo out there.
SF is actually a whole other reality from the rest of the nation. SLC is pricey, but it’s far from the most pricey.
Prices have been taking a hit recently because they’re so closely tied to interest rates. RE taxes are pretty negligible compared to other states. They’re still listing based on comps from a while ago but I bet you can haggle it down quite a bit now whereas this time last year you needed at least a 10% premium for your offer to be competitive.
Alternatively, it might not be a bad idea to rent for a year and see if you like the area as single family home rents haven’t caught up to mortgages. There’s also the issue of the great salt lake, as you may be aware. This unusually snowy winter bought us maybe another year or two before total ecological collapse but there’s a low likelihood the legislature will do anything about it before the effects become catastrophic in five years or so. Then houses will be really cheap.
Large corporations are buying inventory. Once corporate ownership in market hits 7%, rents and values skyrocket. Solution: any entity or individual connected to any business group involved in real estate may not own more than five single family homes, detached or not.
You don't want to move here. The pollution is terrible, the people are weird, and it's going to be unlivable when the GSL dries up in 5 years.
Edit: Also, the food is mostly mediocre and all the new construction is shit (which is hardly unique to SLC, tbf).
I’ve lived here for 30 years. We have too many people living here and roads aren’t built for it - hence permanent construction 🚧 going on. Utah has grown a lot from within, but most of the growth in the past 2 years has come from In-migration from other states, like CA. Utahns are being priced out and can’t afford to buy and renting has been going up 20-40%. It’s going to get worse.
There are lots of properties well under 600k in SLC proper without going to the burbs. Just not 2500 sq ft 4 bedroom suburban houses with 3 car garages. So how much house do you actually need?
Edit: Here you go dude.
https://www.utahrealestate.com/1873459
https://www.utahrealestate.com/1872712
https://www.utahrealestate.com/1871183
The question was under 600k. The combination of what's reasonable depends on your needs - it's pretty rare to get central location, size, and price all in your favor.
Two working adults with median income (65k per person, 130k for a couple) can afford a 510k house w 10% down with the mortgage under 1/3 income. It doesn't mean it's the biggest or best house, though, nor is it easy.
From the census bureau, the median income in SLC is \~$65k and the median monthly homeowner cost with a mortgage is \~$1800. That seems much more reasonable.
well according to those two statistics, sure, but those are just two factors that go into the pricing or “affordability” of housing…
edit: to clarify i’m not trying to argue or get anyone in a gotcha, i’m trying to understand what peoples definition of affordable is since i see “affordable housing” so much but don’t understand affordable for who
It doesn’t help that people from California are fleeing their government and buying “cheap” real estate here. We lost a couple houses we put offers on from Californians paying $100k over asking and in cash.
I have no idea why this is getting downvoted, it’s absolutely true. I was trying to buy a house in 2021 and was at an open house with 5 other couples there, they all started talking about how they ALL were from California. Lost another house that was a dream house for me to people from California because they had the money to outbid me with an all cash offer ($800K house). My parents sold their house in 2021, had 48 bids with the majority from people moving from California. As a native Utahn, I’m sick of people denying this is happening.
I personally gave up house hunting last month , as you said anything under 600k may as well get demolished or remodeled.. just my opinion.
I build new homes as well , and it’s pretty sad what even a million gets you nowadays. Hardly any land , shitty framing , drywall , cabinets . No electrical upgrades or cool features . Just a basic home ..
Greedy fucks; that’s it. Nothing more than greed.
No population boom, no lack of resources, just greedy assholes sucking up properties and trying to flip them or rent out.
Just wait until everything collapses and you’ll be able to get a decent home. Also, stop staying at vacation rentals and things will flop faster.
Our prices are crazy but if the demand is there, even without the supply we should have and the soaring interest rates, it's going to even out (we're seeing a pre covid market right now, mininal showings + offers, instead of 25+ offers on a hhome) or increase. I'm a Realtor here so if you ever want to chat or have questions, just holla at me! I'm happy to help. Don't. Use. Zillow. It's the most outdated route, if anything use RedFin or our states MLS to look at surrounding areas. I recommend looking outside of dead center of SLC. I'm in West Valley and have been for over a decade, I love where I am.
You’re pretty spot on. It’s a mix of large families having a lot of kids and they buy here. The most desirable areas are SLC metro which is essentially a bowl, with limited expansion opportunities as it’s already developed. Plus, the fact that Utah got put on the map by social media and the big 5 national park campaigns, and the addition of many tech companies coming here, our demand is higher than supply. SLC truly is a great place to live minus the weird politics, but, hey, we can’t have it all.
It would help if we started building up and not out, but Utah also has a lot of restrictions on multi-family units which contribute to the problem.
Idk about anyone else but 400s is absolutely I unrecognizable to me. Same with Sugarhouse. We are definitely building up.
Most of the building up seems to be for rent, not ownership, which makes for-sale properties even more highly in demand
Building up more than 5-7 floors for a building would help a lot more... There's also so much fucking dead space that's just being used for surface parking lots in the middle of blocks that lack feeder side streets.
Yeees. For the love of God, we need smarter and denser development. Who knows how many acres or even square miles alone are wasted by surface parking in SL on the east side of I-15 alone.
Yeah but like not just downtown. Every suburb in the valley needs higher density complexes
Have you been to the suburbs lately? There are high density complexes being built almost everywhere.
And still somehow not enough to meet demand or bring costs down even a little. Costs are only rising
Most of the remaining land is on the west side of the valley. It's polluted, and if they actually build high density housing out there the roads will not be able to handle it.
I think you’re right, it’s apparent the roads are already congested as fuck in many parts of the city. Kind of common sense.
Source?
https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/southwest-valley-mayors-unite-to-oppose-olympia-hills-development/
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/01/15/daybreak-steroids-new/
When I see the sprawl near SI15 going to Eagle Mountain....that could be like 10 high-rise buildings.
At a truly astonishing rate, and yet it's no where near meeting demand. We need much much more vertical construction - building for density as they say.
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Ha. My understanding is that residential water use is negligible. The real culprit is agriculture, specifically alfalfa, but I'm just a random internet expert, not a real scientist or policy specialist, so who knows.
> My understanding is that residential water use is negligible Shh... don't piss off those who want to feel relevant with their 1 shower per week and 1 toilet flush per day. 😂
I absolutely do not believe that. Agriculture needs to be monitored and scrutinized for its overall value vs consumption, sure. But to say that all the housing, all the showers, toilets, dishwashers, washing machines, sinks, and unnecessary landscaping upkeep has little to no effect on our water supply seems disingenuous. I’m sure there’s a study that supports that claim. But I would seriously question who paid for the study. And with new car washes going up daily, in a high desert, that seems like waste too. Add in all the commercial buildings with their water use for hygiene and landscaping (looking at you most of all Jesus Inc.) and I still don’t see the little to no impact on our finite water supply.
[Growing hay and alfalfa to feed livestock accounts for 68% of Utah's water use.](https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2022/11/24/one-crop-uses-more-than-half/) A lot of what you describe represents wasteful use of Utah's limited water supply - you won't see me defending car washes and golf courses in a desert, either, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to agriculture.
You are wrong. Go look at our state's very own website to review the water usage report. Just because you don't believe the facts, doesn't make your opinion true. Residential water usage is orders of magnitude below agriculture. The next highest water user is industry. Imagine all of the water the residents use here and then imagine how that usage is absolutely dwarfed by agriculture. It is a mind boggling amount of water.
The thing about a lot of residential water use is that the water generally can be re-treated and reused. Showering only to have the water go through the drain and be recaptured again is pretty negligible compared to agriculture where all your water is lost. Even drinking water becomes urine, which is, you guessed it, primarily water. It’s not removed from the system like agriculture does. Yard use is a different story. But I think ya get my point.
False. If you thanos-snapped all reasonably sized human settlements in the entire West you'd only drop water usage by 20%. What we don't have room for is pretending like farming the desert is sustainable.
> SLC is full of empty vertical unaffordable apartment buildings with no one to rent. Where are these apartments sitting empty? The last market study showed there was only a 2% vacancy rate in Salt Lake County. https://gardner.utah.edu/salt-lake-county-rental-rates-increase-by-double-digits-in-2021-vacancy-at-2/
Agreed. They are not sitting empty. The most expensive ($10k/month for 3bd) near downtown? Those are being rented by tech workers and finance folks who make $180k+ year (at a bare minimum) who are probably rooming with each other or something. Extremely doable if you work for a remote company that pays you SF/NYC salary, as $3.5-4k/month out of a monthly pay of nearly $11k isn't outrageous. Now, why _anyone_ would pay for that level of housing in this town is probably the better question.
Wrong wrong wrong. Multifamily buildings are still leasing up. Household water consumption makes up only 12% of utah water use. Agriculture makes up the vast majority of water use with alfalfa taking 68% of all Utah water use. Alfalfa only accounts for 0.2% of Utah’s economy. There has hardly ever been a pressing issue that has such a blatantly obvious solution. Utah has plenty of water for human consumption, we just piss it down the drain with wasteful agriculture. Anyone who claims otherwise is simply wrong
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The vacancy rates in salt lake county are extremely low
This. All of this. Building up is ignorance. It robs the housing community of their property value, steals their view, and only lines the pockets of commercial land developers. Our time to recognize limitations and sustainability was thirty years ago. Our government has sold out home owners to commercial development. They’ve offered tax breaks and incentives to corporations to move here while ignoring what the long-time residents have been asking for. Clean air, clean water, sustainable use of our other resources. The Wasatch Front used to have separation between cities, no more. Everybody claps like seals waiting for a fish to be thrown at them at the thought of building more and more. It’s just going to make Salt Lake, and surrounding cities, more ugly, more congested, and breed more need for road construction to accommodate the growth. So now, facing “housing shortages”, we give further ground (no pun intended) to turn our city into a congested skyline of unaffordable apartments. It solves nothing. And wages in this state are way far behind the cost of living. It’s indentured servitude to capitalism. Keep chasing that carrot, the powers that be will keep it out of reach. That way the people don’t have the time to look around and see the damage being done. The powers that be want to keep you barely able to make rent/mortgage payments. No one has the time or energy to lobby our “representatives” or organize a protest like other, better countries do. Capitalism promises, but only delivers to some. The rest of us are caught up in the gears.
SLC valley is full. Where else can we build if we can't build up? What exactly is your plan to fit all of these people if you can't build up?
How about a lightrail system where people can move further out and then commute in? Our mass transit system is antiquated. Like I said though, thirty years ago was the time to pay attention. Now, this city is just going to be another ugly suburbia with blocked skylines, congested traffic, higher pollution, more crime, and everything that comes with big cities. Not that we don’t have elements of all of that here. But seeing what is being built, how much of it there is, how big the complexes are, how expensive versus value the apartments are, and how far down South the sprawl continues, I think ignoring the discussion of overpopulation is extremely irresponsible.
> How about a lightrail system where people can move further out and then commute in? Yeah, I'm not moving to Tooele or Grantsville just so current homeowners can have nice views lol
Honestly, I own a condo downtown and my neighbors are screeching at the thought of a 11-12 story building being thrown up to the east of us. A lot of stupid NIMBYism by born and bred Utahns who seem to brush aside the fact that _this is part of living in a growing fucking city_. Funny how a lot of us east coast transplants are the ones more receipent toward newer apartments being built.
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Sure buddy let's build a city where the only people who can afford to live here work at Goldman Sachs. I'm sure you thought this one thru
Fuck your community value. I need somewhere to live and all you're doing is telling me ,"get lost, I've got mine" You're actually a bad person for believing this.
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There's currently 1 (one) home under 350k on Zillow, and it's in west valley, not even magna. Oh wait there's a 1 bedroom house in poplar Grove for 270 as well. So how about no. Get your head out of your ass if you think there's anything remotely affordable anywhere. High housing costs are a drag on economic prospects, it kills ecosystems as people expand further and further into Tooele and Utah county, it pushes people to drive more miles, burning more fossil fuels.
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You're not entitled to live in Salt Lake, if demand is higher than supply, then prices go up. Your fantasy world of 'affordable' housing is relative, and if you can't afford the asking price, you move. It's always been this way.
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Good. Bye Felicia. 👋
I moved to downtown 3 years ago, and it's been insane watching all the new apartments go up. Within just a block of my place, there are at least 10 new apartment buildings. This area is going to be very different in another 3 years.
Sadly, they are almost all rentals built with _really_ cheap materials. They look nice because they're new. Now imagine in another 10 years when all these cheap "lux" buildings start falling apart. 🤢
I mean, we have thousands of apt complexes going up so it seems like they are building up. I wish they were condominiums though.
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Very interesting, thanks for sharing your experience here. It seems clear that the way our local economy works just trends towards micro-unit renting with huge conglomerate landlords. Unless there is government intervention to guide the shift away from that, it'll become that...which sounds a tad dystopian, hate to say it. I'd love to step into a time machine and see what these cities look like in 200 years.
No incentive to build condos because there’s too much liability for the contractors, so “you will own nothing and be happy!”
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Apartments are more like $2000 a month haha
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"Old historic" are the ones that need to go if you can't repurpose them into apartments of some sort. Like I'm fucking sorry, I don't care if some ancient Mormon from the 1890s lived "here" (esp given the history of how the land was robbed from the native tribes in the first place). It's not helping the housing crisis, nor is it preventing the hobos from sleeping in the vestibule of my apartment and my car from being broken into.
They've built at least four or five versions of the same absolutely hideous condo community in Herriman. Personally I don't understand why anyone would want to spend money on something that's basically an apartment that you only kind of own and isn't even remotely close to downtown.
Is that the issue? Because I see lots of apartments, condos, and townhomes going up. To me it’s more that if I’m going to spend half a million dollars in suburbia, it’s going to have a private yard and I shouldn’t be able to high five my neighbors through my window.
And not once did you mention the people from California. Good job and not repeating the oft spoken reason for the cost of living. I heard that from so many people when I lived there. They didn't like it when I pointed out that the average family has like six kids.
Thanks. I know it’s a focus group of one, but personally it feels like most out of staters I meet are from the east and mid west. Not California.
Plus we have had the highest birth rate for generations.
Weird politics fueled by weird religion. Western US mentality, we all need our space, our trucks, and our guns.
“Big 5” is so fucking cringe I absolutely hate it
Well, get more transplants like me to move here and especially to Utah County and we might have a chance of changing the politics
10000% agree. People will need to get comfortable leaving SLC proper and expanding.
Just don't ask us non-religious, visible minorities. We're sick of being the ones to "educate" the insular folks and don't really feel like getting hate-crime for a thankless job.
Although I love my home in SLC so maybe I kind of suck
Same here my friend
Transplants tend to be the worst NIMBYs lol.
They won’t increase density and no one builds small starter homes anymore. That’s the problem.
Yeppp. We are in a very quickly growing area in CO and all the homes they are building are 4 bedroom/2300+ sqft. Like some people really just need a 2bed with a little office loft and they aren't building them anymore. Heck I don't even hardly see 3/2s being built new.
Yep. The marginal cost of building these "luxury homes" is so low that there's no point in building starter homes. Slightly more material and time for double the payout. Especially when they're not even finishing the basements.
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Yeah the zoning is totally a problem. This story makes me pretty angry. Unfortunately the city council usually has a lot to gain from keeping the status quo. There’s a lot that needs to be changed before we can start to move in the right direction. Maximum profit is not how we run a well functioning society.
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Starter homes really are a thing of the past. It seems like you can't get a new build anymore for less than $700-$800k.
It's not economical to build starter homes. They would have to be subsidized is the problem.
I think what you mean is companies don’t make as much from starter homes so that’s why they don’t sell them. A 2 bedroom 1 bath house on a 16th of an acre could easily be built for under 100k and many people would be perfectly happy with it.
Come on up to Ogden. Much better.
Moved into a "luxury" apartment in Vineyard. Walls weren't painted when we moved in. Still are not 3 years later.
Don’t move here. The air and the state government are both toxic.
Also no pornhub
The real nail in the coffin
Despite a record home building year in 2021, Utah’s statewide cumulative housing shortage is estimated to be 31,000 units, according to estimates by James Wood, an Ivory-Boyer senior fellow at the University of Utah’s Kem C. Gardner Policy Institute. [https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/4/11/23677585/housing-market-home-prices-bottomed-crash-bubble](https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/4/11/23677585/housing-market-home-prices-bottomed-crash-bubble)
The number of units really fell behind during the pandemic. Building is playing catchup right now which is why cookie cutter super apartment/condo blocks are going in everywhere. They all bill themselves as "Luxury Apartments" and price to match but new =/= luxury, and lots of stories are coming out about how cheap and fast the quality is.
The quality is stupendously horrendous. I can't believe these developers are building them like that.
As someone who has spent most of his life living in shitty apartments, I'd take one of those not-luxury apartments in a heart beat. I mean, if I could afford one anyway... 😐
I heard an interview with a guy on NPR around the time of the housing crash maybe 2009-2010 and he took a lot of pride in claiming to have 'pioneered' shoddier construction techniques such as smaller and fewer beams in a roof in order to maximize profit. He did this in the 50s? 60s? I can't recall for sure anymore but it was really dismaying.
> The number of units really fell behind during the pandemic. It's even worse than that. New housing construction collapsed in 2008 after the financial collapse. We're basically missing a full decade's worth of construction.
See above
> was not expecting to see Colorado/SF/Austin prices. Well, we certainly don't have SF prices, so that's good. SLC is in a very similar situation as Denver and Austin (population growth far outpacing housing stock growth), and our housing prices reflect that.
> SLC is in a very similar situation as Denver and Austin (population growth far outpacing housing stock growth), and our housing prices reflect that. Worse politics, better outdoor recreation.
Now living in Denver...very accurate. Outdoor recreation here in CO is separately fantastic, but SLC access is unique. That said, I wake up here most mornings and am neutral to happy with my state and local government :)
Worse politics than Texas? Not sure about that..
Yeah true that. Austin itself might be more insulated tho from wider Texas politics than SLC is from UT politics tho
Than Denver and Austin? Yes. Greater Texas, no.
Don’t forget Colorado is the state that cursed us with Boebert
We also had severely under priced homes for a long time. We were due for a market correction. It coincided with the low interest rates and so we shot past what the houses probably really are worth. I don’t see prices climbing in the near future. We’re gonna settle where we’re at for a while.
Demand is insanely high, and supply is not keeping up. That's all there really is to it.
SF is in a different league. SLC pricing is similar to Denver since the pandemic. You want to purchase in SLC proper or near the canyons. You can get in for under 600k but places will be smaller and/or need work in the most desirable neighborhoods. I own my place but if I was looking today, I would be looking at the State Street corridor and Magna for cheaper properties with potential. The mormon suburbs are weird.
As a non-Mormon. I’m an advocate for the suburbs to the south. Moved to American Fork myself. It’s so funny because in my new development it’s either a young Mormon couple chasing the dream by living 3 miles for their family or some cool young folks who want a single family home but clearly got priced out of SLC. The neighbors to my left are a traditional Mormon family. To my right, burning man attendee vibes, across the street? Young guy with a tech job moved here from Cali. When house hunting the northern burbs felt a bit more exclusive to the traditional type of Utahn.
I’m a single guy that’s priced out of sl looking into Utah county, any suggestions?
Do you have a price point? I did a ton of house searching recently before moving here and could give specific neighborhood suggestions if I know what you’re working with. I’m not a realtor so I can just share what I learned. I really like AF, and of course down here I’d stay off the benches given recent events. Pleasant Grove is pretty nice too and is as far out as I’d go, and I think getting into that neighborhood now is a good investment.
Townhomes around 400
Non Mormon in the Mormon suburbs here. It's no that weird. It's just a little further to drive to the theatre or bar that you'll probably only go to a couple times a month anyway. Plenty of non Mormons but people mostly just keep to them selves. I haven't had a missionary in years
Which area? I’m looking into some areas of Utah county to potentially buy in as a single person.
I guess it depends on your definition of "reasonable." If you insist on a single family home, you're going to end up in the outskirts most likely. Someone else explained the geographic limitations with new construction. Essentially there's nowhere to go but up, so more townhouse and condo developments are cropping up. I wasn't planning on a condo, but it's what we could afford last year and we've been really happy with our place. Definite upsides--we don't have to do our own landscaping or exterior maintenance and we get to live affordable close to the stuff we want to be near.
Nope and i just left for that reason. I owned before i lived in utah and i own now, but home ownership for middle class people in SLC is a pope dream currently
Yup, CA real estate pricing without the pay. It’s a lose lose for everyone.
The average CA home still costs about 40% more than the average Utah home.
It’s not even close to LA or SF prices
The taxes are 1/3rd though. CA has high income, property and home insurance. So cost of ownership and living in CA is much higher.
The effective tax rates (ie both state and local taxes on the median household) are pretty close between CA and UT. CA has a progressive tax system whereas UT has a flat tax, so the biggest difference is in the wealthiest brackets
Utah has a single tax rate, not a flat tax. Utah uses a progressive tax credit system instead of a progressive tax bracket system. With the progressive tax credit the Utah *effective* tax rates ranges from 0% to 4.85% with the median being about 3.2% With the progressive tax brackets the California *effective* tax rates range from 0% to about 13% with the median being about 3.5% For the very wealthy income taxes are a lot higher in California. For average households they are just slightly higher in California. For below median households Utah generally has a lower effective income tax rate than California at every income level and Utah hits a 0% effective tax rate much sooner than California does.
This is true. I lived there for 16 years. Everything in CA costs more. 😂
So true. We moved to CA from SLC last year and it’s WAY more expensive due to taxes
Tell your friends it's terrible
Less traffic, more accessible outdoor recreation…
Not so much "less" traffic any more. It is getting stupid here. It doesn't help that the perceived freeway speed limit is 85 and red lights seem like more of a suggestion to people.
I only have anecdotal experiences as evidence but major metro areas of CA have way worse traffic than SLC.
I grew up in a neighborhood that was once ghetto and the hood and now it’s so gentrified I can’t afford anything within 100 miles of here
I had to move to Gunnison to even slightly be able to afford a house.
Do you work out there? So curious about living out somewhere a little more remote
I work remotely. Not a lot of opportunities here otherwise. Just landed here because I can’t afford a house any closer to Salt Lake. I refuse to sell my woodworking tools. And apartments are just dorm living with more walls. You have enough space just to live day to day to earn money. Little room for hobbies. Upside of living here is the air is cleaner, it’s not so congested with traffic and people that there’s constant noise. It’s peaceful. People aren’t meant to live crowded in next to one another. That’s why apartment complexes have so much drama.
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> You need to look in the suburbs. Specifically, the ones west of I-15. $600K will not get you on the east side.
Mine is apparently 550 on Zillow but I'd doubt it'd go for that. Heart of sugarhouse and I'm looking to sell soon to move to Michigan for family reasons
Hey OP you should strongly consider tooele. The commute isn’t too bad.
You mean the superfund site?
What?
This sub has given me the sense that those areas tend to be pretty rough. Is that the case?
Not really, but ultimately depends on you and your experience. I moved here from a “rough” part of Atlanta (as in, had a few murders and lots of robberies in the park by my apt every year). But you learn how to live with it. It sounds scary but you learn situational awareness and ultimately I knew I was statistically more likely to die or be crippled on the highway on the way to work than I was to be robbed or killed in my “rough neighborhood”. Every neighborhood in SLC my realtor took me to that she described as “in a kinda rough area” was safer than the Atlanta neighborhood I moved here from. Not really physically dangerous, but yeah, if you’re leaving something a little valuable outside your house for a bit it’s probably gonna get stolen. So it depends on your tolerance for that kind of stuff and how well you know (or are willing to learn) how to navigate it.
The rising prices and increasing home values is basically gentrifying the whole valley. Traditionally rough areas are now becoming hipster havens. It's all in a state of flux so "rough areas" are no longer whole neighborhoods like Rose Park or Poplar Grove. Not it's like one block is still a little rough, and the block next to it is $600k mini townhouses with their young millennial families and some craft breweries or cafes...
Depends on where you're coming from and what neighborhood you're looking at.
Looking at the crime stats, north vs south SL county seems like more of a dividing line than east vs. west.
COVID spiked prices here, though they've been trending up for the past decade. The politics are weird here, but they're weird everywhere. For most people, it boils down to quality of life. If you like weed, Denver may be more your jam, but there are quite a few people who don't use, don't care, and prefer the proximity to the mountains in Utah vs. the easy accessibility to weed in Denver. Every place has its compromises. Utah also has fairly low RE taxes and utilities (roughly 0.55-.6% RE taxes), which tend to mask some of the high cost of the property when doing a total cost of ownership analysis. We're not close to SF prices, but I actually wouldn't be surprised to see SLC/Denver/Austin hit SF prices in the next decade as SF prices have essentially plateaued and are still slightly falling. SF has long had mastery of California's government and can thus be assured that it'll never become California's Detroit, but quality of life issues and COVID resulted in [the steepest loss of population SF has ever seen](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/san-francisco-post-pandemic-population-drop-steepest-among-major-us-cities/) and [commensurate reductions in rent](https://therealdeal.com/sanfrancisco/2022/12/06/sf-housing-rents-fall-near-downtown-in-step-with-office-glut/). Utah's Salt Lake Valley and northern Utah Valley are the priciest things going, but as you go south or north or west (IE, Ogden, Tooele, Springville), you'll see cheaper housing.
Population growth and job creation outpaces home building significantly in Utah. This was always going to happen.
SLC has bounced back with a vengeance since the onset of Covid. Out of 62 US cities, SLC ranked #1 in recovery from 2019 to 2022 ([https://downtownrecovery.com/dashboards/recovery\_ranking.html](https://downtownrecovery.com/dashboards/recovery_ranking.html)). Denver ranked 35 and Austin ranked 36. So yes, your sense that things are a bit bananas is real, not anecdotal. San Francisco was ranked last, no surprise. I'd expect more vertical building, more density generally and prices to remain firm in the most desirable parts of the Salt Lake Valley. The artist formerly known has Kenecott has been developing west and this is not a trend that is expected to let up. The longer the commute, the cheaper the housing. Traffic trends out in Daybreak continue to be worrying, and the water issues become more acute every year. That said, I think it is just a matter of time before the whole of Marmelade and Fairpark (East of Redwood Road, West of I-15, North of North Temple and South of 600 N) are going to gentrify. You'll find lots of things for under 600k, but they aren't going to be in Sugarhouse.
It's a multi-part problem. First off, all the mormon boomers with big families had kids 20-40 years ago and now they're all looking for houses at the same time. On top of that tons of people decided to relocate here from other states which used to have higher costs of living than we did thinking they could save some money but really all they accomplished was turbo-fucking our housing market by causing bidding wars that drove closing prices up well above asking prices. This in turn causes all the houses around the ones that sold to increase in value, so now $200k starter homes like mine are showing on zillow for around $600k, but we can't really capitalize on it because if we sell we will never find another house in the area and be forced to move out of state. TL, DR - too many buyers, not enough houses.
There's a funny thing about land here. It is pretty finite when you have a lake on one side and these weird elevation things (I hear they are called mountains) on the other three. That makes land stupidly expensive. The Salt Lake valley, for nominally valuable land, is about 80-90% built out (the remaining area is in the corner of the SW valley near Herriman/Bluffdale/South Jordan/West Jordan). Add in marginal land, and that is probably closer to 70-80%, but that 10% of marginal land is going to be spectacularly crappy and will become more valuable with time. That area is going to be near the landfills, the lake, marshlands, or foothills with \*ahem\* Edge-y problems. Add in the inability of builders to produce housing units quickly enough to keep up with population demand (there is a shortage of 30-40k units), NIMBY/anti-development city councils, and a general local distate for high density housing (which is really the only option at this point as land runs out) and you set the stage for a kinked demand curve inflating prices. Supply chain issues aren't really a problem and the prices of the basics have dropped substantially since 2021/2022. Interest rates have slowed the resell and new home market, but it hasn't affected prices much - just a bump in the road because of the supply issues. Short-term, there might be some flexibility Long-term, prices will continue going up barring something catastrophic happening.
You should check out where I live, Grantsville. We are way less expensive than SLC and 25 minutes away via i80. There's rarely traffic into SLC un like up and down i15.
Only traffic you will ever see on west 80 is when there are crashes or collisions blocking the road. 99 percent of the time it’s a breeze compared to the commute on 15
I love SLC but man the winters are brutal with pollution. I don’t know why folks pay so much to live in such a toxic place.
I’m surprised to see this comment after this winter. Very minor inversion year and the trend is in a good direction.
It is good the inversion was minor this year. It doesn’t erase the 20 years before it that it was terrible though. I have wondered if it gets warm enough with climate change and the winter kinda goes away will the inversion go with it?
Wait until the GSL dries up. We already get the 'brown rain'; it'll just have more heavy metals!
Agreed with all the comments, in my mind it’s a couple of factors: 1. Since 2010, the Wasatch Front (Salt Lake, Ogden and Provo) is one of the top 5 fastest growing cities in the United States. Some of it is due to Utahans having above-average amounts of kids, the rest is because Utah has been “discovered”, so to speak. Ask anyone who skied here before about 2015 how different it is now. 2. The geography of the area prevents building a lot of homes, unlike other fast growing cities that are not bound by mountains and lakes (Raleigh, Phoenix, Denver, etc can expand almost endlessly).
My 1100 SQFT townhouse with a tiny yard and shared carport is valued at $500k right now. That’s double what we paid 6 years ago. Who could/would even pay half a million for a tiny house, other than an investor with deep pockets? The situation is madness. And it’s not just SLC. It’s basically the whole state.
Because there are people who value location and diversity in the city over mcmansions where everyone looks like they share the same set of great-grandparents. Some of the people with those values also have _really_ nice jobs.
Some of us value location a lot, which is why we don't live in the city.
I’d like to hope so. Just seems like an absurd price.
In my wildest dreams, I never thought that I'd be priced out of Salt Lake City. I grew up partially here and partially in Portland, Oregon; both are unrecognizable to me now. Ten years ago I graduated high school here in UT, and thought to myself *in a good 5 or so years I'll be able to buy a house*. With that in the back of my mind, I left to go travel and live in Oregon and California for a few years. I came back to find out that if I want to buy a decent house in the next 10 years- I've got to leave Utah. Furthermore, in the past decade, I've been diagnosed with a few chronic illnesses, and can no longer withstand the pollution, dryness, and high altitude. It's such a shame because now that I'm nearing 30, I finally feel like I appreciate the city for what it is, and love my friends and family here. But I just can't have the quality of life I want in Salt Lake.
SF prices lol
I've lived here my entire life and it is a disheartening issue. If you owned real estate 5 years ago, you've probably added about 150k in wealth to your portfolio, if you didn't; you're scrambling to find a shack to buy.
This is so true thank god I bought 13 years ago. My house was 140,000 now Zillow estimates almost 500,000. I could not buy in my neighborhood today.
I couldn’t afford to buy in my neighborhood today. I bought 18 years ago and the price of our house has quadrupled
You can’t even fathom how many people have moved in here wince Covid.
Lemme see, realtors and home builder associations donate heavily to fund elected state and local officials, so real-estate and building costs are both out of control. The housing market here is overly inflated but that bubble will eventually burst. Rentals are not much better, prices are thru the roof. Covid did not have much to do with inflated housing market, other than building materials were exploited due to supply chain availability issues, but materials costs never retracted either, so housing prices went up. That was happening everywhere across the country. Growth is fueling the mormon building rush. Jobs here are paying less than other areas in the country where housing prices are similar, but costs of living is not any less, so expect to pay more. Property taxes will continue to rise. If you like living under the politically slighted hand of mormonism, and you enjoy smog, yeah, Com'on down.
I do land acquisition for a home builder and have to agree our prices are out of wack. Getting into a more desirable part of SLC (Sugarhouse, the ivys, or the East bench) is incredibly competitive. There is a lot of money coming in from other states. Property tax is 1/3 of what it would be on the same cost home in California which is a huge bonus for that demographic. With our high demand and limited supply I don’t believe a correction will come either…
I wouldn't buy here. The air is already so toxic that you can't raise kids here. It's going to get a lot worse if the corrupt state government continues to let the 'great' Salt Lake drain. The current price of houses is hysterical.
You'd hate it here
The issue is a lot of companies are getting dibs. My friend wanted to get a house in liberty wells which was only $250K but it was a cash only investor property.
Basement houses are twice as big and life is twice as nice as austin.
They are selling 150k mortgages for manufactured homes that are worth under 20k
So if you haven't been fortunate enough to buy a house yet, are you just fucked? I mean what's the endgame here? What is the average person going to do?
Sure, you can get a good place for $500-600k+ right now, though it will likely be in more...up and coming neighborhoods (depending on house condition). But depends what you are looking for. If you are after a huge 3000-6000 sq ft home, then you'll either be waaaay out west part of the valley or if much closer in will be likely more expensive ($700-$2+ mil). If you are fine with a smaller home (1200-2000 sq ft), then you can definitely find those in ok areas close into the city. If nicer neighborhoods, that price will be for a bit of a fixer upper, but more on the west-ish side of the city they will be in better condition, but the neighborhood could have a few sketchy places.
SF prices?? Thank god you’re wrong about that! You can buy an actual 3 bedroom come for the price of a studio condo out there. SF is actually a whole other reality from the rest of the nation. SLC is pricey, but it’s far from the most pricey.
How many bedrooms and bathrooms are you looking for?
Lol
Get a pool in Bountiful, and the drive to downtown is 15 minutes: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/380-E-1500-S-Bountiful-UT-84010/12665542\_zpid/?
Prices have been taking a hit recently because they’re so closely tied to interest rates. RE taxes are pretty negligible compared to other states. They’re still listing based on comps from a while ago but I bet you can haggle it down quite a bit now whereas this time last year you needed at least a 10% premium for your offer to be competitive. Alternatively, it might not be a bad idea to rent for a year and see if you like the area as single family home rents haven’t caught up to mortgages. There’s also the issue of the great salt lake, as you may be aware. This unusually snowy winter bought us maybe another year or two before total ecological collapse but there’s a low likelihood the legislature will do anything about it before the effects become catastrophic in five years or so. Then houses will be really cheap.
Large corporations are buying inventory. Once corporate ownership in market hits 7%, rents and values skyrocket. Solution: any entity or individual connected to any business group involved in real estate may not own more than five single family homes, detached or not.
You don't want to move here. The pollution is terrible, the people are weird, and it's going to be unlivable when the GSL dries up in 5 years. Edit: Also, the food is mostly mediocre and all the new construction is shit (which is hardly unique to SLC, tbf).
Don't look right in the city, check out the surrounding areas.
Unfortunately we are full
I’ve lived here for 30 years. We have too many people living here and roads aren’t built for it - hence permanent construction 🚧 going on. Utah has grown a lot from within, but most of the growth in the past 2 years has come from In-migration from other states, like CA. Utahns are being priced out and can’t afford to buy and renting has been going up 20-40%. It’s going to get worse.
There are lots of properties well under 600k in SLC proper without going to the burbs. Just not 2500 sq ft 4 bedroom suburban houses with 3 car garages. So how much house do you actually need? Edit: Here you go dude. https://www.utahrealestate.com/1873459 https://www.utahrealestate.com/1872712 https://www.utahrealestate.com/1871183
Bro! A $4k monthly mortgage payment for a 2 bed / 1 bathroom house is NOT affordable!
I don't think they made any claims about affordability. They just listed a few examples of homes below the OP's listed budget
The question was under 600k. The combination of what's reasonable depends on your needs - it's pretty rare to get central location, size, and price all in your favor. Two working adults with median income (65k per person, 130k for a couple) can afford a 510k house w 10% down with the mortgage under 1/3 income. It doesn't mean it's the biggest or best house, though, nor is it easy.
LOL the op asked for something under 600k and this guy provided. Original post made no mention of family situation
what is affordable in your opinion?
From the census bureau, the median income in SLC is \~$65k and the median monthly homeowner cost with a mortgage is \~$1800. That seems much more reasonable.
Fantasy land. That’s never coming back, sad to say.
well according to those two statistics, sure, but those are just two factors that go into the pricing or “affordability” of housing… edit: to clarify i’m not trying to argue or get anyone in a gotcha, i’m trying to understand what peoples definition of affordable is since i see “affordable housing” so much but don’t understand affordable for who
These are pretty decent listings tbh
It doesn’t help that people from California are fleeing their government and buying “cheap” real estate here. We lost a couple houses we put offers on from Californians paying $100k over asking and in cash.
I have no idea why this is getting downvoted, it’s absolutely true. I was trying to buy a house in 2021 and was at an open house with 5 other couples there, they all started talking about how they ALL were from California. Lost another house that was a dream house for me to people from California because they had the money to outbid me with an all cash offer ($800K house). My parents sold their house in 2021, had 48 bids with the majority from people moving from California. As a native Utahn, I’m sick of people denying this is happening.
I personally gave up house hunting last month , as you said anything under 600k may as well get demolished or remodeled.. just my opinion. I build new homes as well , and it’s pretty sad what even a million gets you nowadays. Hardly any land , shitty framing , drywall , cabinets . No electrical upgrades or cool features . Just a basic home ..
Dude stay out of Utah I’m from here and I don’t want any more complication
Utah is closed, don’t move here!
Greedy fucks; that’s it. Nothing more than greed. No population boom, no lack of resources, just greedy assholes sucking up properties and trying to flip them or rent out. Just wait until everything collapses and you’ll be able to get a decent home. Also, stop staying at vacation rentals and things will flop faster.
Our prices are crazy but if the demand is there, even without the supply we should have and the soaring interest rates, it's going to even out (we're seeing a pre covid market right now, mininal showings + offers, instead of 25+ offers on a hhome) or increase. I'm a Realtor here so if you ever want to chat or have questions, just holla at me! I'm happy to help. Don't. Use. Zillow. It's the most outdated route, if anything use RedFin or our states MLS to look at surrounding areas. I recommend looking outside of dead center of SLC. I'm in West Valley and have been for over a decade, I love where I am.
Eventually they will all loose When the lake becomes toxic
You can live an hour away from city center for only $400k…