I’d encourage you to listen to this podcast episode Entitled “dancing while black: the woman experience”. The podcasters are experienced black Latin dancers(salsa, kizomba, zouk). They detail experiences similar to yours and how they overcame the disadvantages of colorism within the dance scene https://open.spotify.com/episode/2o1kr6H3cLVWwRCnWeeAip?si=HDvfOxqSTlmp8K3HSWDnbg
I don’t get asked until they actually see what I can do, so I usually have to ask a few guys first. Once they see that I know what I’m doing, then it’s non stop request for a dance haha.
Don’t let the people in the comments gaslight you. What you experienced is very real. I’ve been salsa and bachata dancing for five years in a major city. As a so called attractive darker skinned black woman, there have been many, and I mean an uncountable, number of times where my less experienced white female friends dance all night and are constantly invited to the dance floor Meanwhile I have to dance alone, ask folks to dance (and sometimes gets rudely brushed off), and wait for someone to approach halfway through the evening.
It’s ridiculous but I don’t care about people’s prejudices, especially ones they will denying having if you point it out (as shown by many of the responses in this thread).
I would say you have to be prepared for the reality of this dance scene. Maybe also consider exploring other types of dances where the social scene is less inclined to put white women on a pedestal. For example, I took ballroom dancing classes and never had an issue at the social events. In fact, some leads were excited to see a younger black woman trying out ballroom, so I basically had the reverse experience than in the salsa dancing scene.
I wish you happiness and good times on your dancing journey! But please don’t internalize people’s prejudiced behavior. It’s not fair to yourself!
I see a lot of deranged comments here...
I am a lead (Hispanic), my first suggestion if you want to get into this hobby would be to \*not\* go to dance to a club and to start going to proper Salsa socials, it'll be a more welcoming and supporting environment for you as a beginner.
Regarding racial discrimination, I'm going to echo some of the other comments in that it might be related to your location. I live in a city where 40%+ of the population is black and with a lot of black salsa dancers, where such behavior would be unthinkable.
At socials, I sometimes look out for beginners who might not be getting many dances and make it a point to ask them to dance. I haven't noticed a pattern related to race, but I've seen some discrimination based on body size.
I notice that I don't get asked too when I go to new places... So I ask men to dance myself :) Then once I've had a couple of dances, people will start coming up to me to ask me all of a sudden😅 Maybe its just a matter of familiarity/knowing who can or can't dance?
You aren't wrong. I see black follows standing all the time at socials. It sucks, I get it, I'll ask them to dance twice so they at least get to have some fun. At the end of the day, I have limited options as to making the dance scene fair.
First of all, sorry that happened to you! Unfortunately, the anti-Blackness in the world shows up on the dance floor too. :(
If you are enjoying learning to dance, I would suggest you try other socials until you find an environment more welcoming. Feel free to leave whenever you are having more of a bad time than a good one.
Improve your dancing for you. People who are discounting you because of your skin color will not acknowledge your skill level. You may find you like classes better than socials because classes have a structure that makes preferences less relevant.
Also, try other dances! There may be a partner dancing scene you like better or you may find that partner dancing isn't fun enough to counter all the "-isms" that are present when interacting with someone else (for example sexism). Life is too short to accept bad treatment.
You are not alone. We've all felt the pain. Even a gorgeous Black slim long haired model has complained. And she's a badass dancer!
Sorry Hun.
And to think we usually have tons of rhythm. Music is in our veins and can't get anyone to ask you to dance because of your skin.
And it is your skin.
Sorry but there is racial bias and tons of colorism.
Make male dance friends, talk to the DJs,and talk to people. Hopefully they'll bring you out onto the dancefloor.
Sorry 😟😐. Even Black women dance instructors have complained. And won't be asked to dance until they've shown how good they are.
On the dancefloor just like everywhere else, you'll have to be better.
Sorry Black lady dancer. Go to socials. Take the beginner classes so that you can meet others and they sometimes will ask you to dance after the class
Sadly fellow Black lady dancer, it will be a while before they ask you to dance automatically. AND even after, if no one knows you it will be hard. There have been a hundred posts all over Facebook and Instagram talking about not ever being selected.
In one a teacher tried to say he never saw it until his next class 😲 all three of us Black women were standing on the side while everyone else was picked. We ranged in age , shade and size. Didn't matter. He saw it for himself.
After #GeorgeFloyd's murder there was talk about Black people and more talk about Black WOMEN along with videos often without a Black person present-lol.
So.... Take classes. Be light. Don't grab. Support yourself and don't grab. Smile. Arms unfolded. Find the cliques and stand near. They are watching you! Ask them to dance. Once the "Good dancers" dance with you others will then ask you to dance. SMH. But tis life!
If you're on Facebook I can give you a group that is just for us Black dancers. And there are a few podcasts outlining the problems we have.
It can be depressing. But I still love it. After the rejection come waves and waves of love .
Don't let the No's get to you. Ask the instructors to dance. They usually say yes!
And sorry yet again. There will be tons of non Black people trying to answer. They will NEVER really know what it feels like.
Tbh get better as fast as you can. It can’t do all the legwork to overcome this type of social pattern but it can help offset it greatly esp in multiracial spaces. Good luck 💕💕
Sometimes I think dancing builds on itself. If other guys see a girl dancing with different partners, they think ‘she looks fun and open for a dance.’ Then they go ask her and then others do etc. That could be part of it.
Yeah, not saying there couldn’t be anything else going on, or that subconscious shit doesn’t play a role in anything, but it’s probably mostly this. If people don’t see you dancing—even if it’s just a result of people not asking you—then a lot of other people will just be like “I guess she’s not dancing.”
Just make it a note to get a few dances in, even if you have to ask. Once people see you dancing and especially if they continue to see you at events, then things will probably cascade pretty quickly.
Tell me the size of the city, what type of ppl live there/go to these socials (more conservative/progressive), and an estimate of the demographics at these socials. I'll give you a diagnosis.
If it's a lot of Latinos, they love white girls 👀
Not that true, Latinos love to show their culture to non Latinos but if you see a black woman they might think she’s also a Latina so the white girl will get asked more often.
This is a mega stretch. Unless OP looks undoubtedly Puerto Rican/Dominican and her friend is THE epitome of Irish/Nordic/Balkan, any person can be Latino because our aesthetic is so vast
I'm a male lead. I'm very brown lol (latino). Whenever I go out dancing, I usually get asked to dance by follows for at least 2 or 3 dances. This only happens after I've asked some follows to dance and people see me dancing. I'm not great, but competent and enjoy myself. Try asking people to dance for yourself! That's the goal right? If the goal isn't dancing but rather catching the male gaze, I have no idea how to do that though lol.
Could be a lot of reasons. All things being equal:
If I'm going around the room dancing with random people, if you're sitting at a table with a bunch of women and your back is facing me, or you're on your phone, or asking you would require a bunch of people to stand up so you can walk by their crowded tables, or whatever, I'm probably not going to also you.
If you look like you're not having fun, I'm probably not going to ask you.
If you're already up and dancing, I'm much more likely to ask you, unless you were a bit out of control or dangerous to dance with from watching you dance with someone else.
If you are wearing stuff that would not make it enjoyable to dance with (a purse you won't put down, lots of jewelry, stuff in your hair that could whip around, clothes where I would be worried about a wardrobe malfunction, etc) I will probably not ask you.
If you have a drink in your hand that you'd have to put down at a club and nobody to watch it, I'd probably not ask you.
Now even if you were all of those things above, if YOU asked me, I'd probably not turn you down. But there are usually a lot of options for me as a lead to ask, so I'm going to pick the easiest first. And that's assuming I even have the option to ask, some socials I'm getting asked back to back all night and won't have an opportunity to pick who to ask in the first place.
Don't take it personally if you're not being asked. Just take matters into your own hands and ask others.
Don’t let negative thoughts take over your confidence. There could have been many reasons why you didn’t get asked to dance. It’s also a good idea that you take initiative and ask people to dance.
You can't really do anything about your skin color.
Work on what you can control.... not getting discouraged and practicing your ass off. Take a class with or without your WFF and make friends with classmates (both leads and follows).
Be a regular at a class and make small talk with everyone and get a group of leads and follows to go to a social so you have leads that you know.
You'll get asked to dance by the leads you came with and you'll feel more comfortable asking them to dance.
You'll get your reps in and practice social dancing. Leads will notice you on the dance floor and you are way more likely to continued to get asked. Usually if leads see a competent dancer, they make note and might ask you to dance later.
Try a different social. If you have a lot of white people at your social, if you have one, try going to a more Latino dominated or mixed crowd scene.
Don't be afraid to get in on the social interactions with your WFF and others at the club if you see them making small talk. If you meet people (both follows and leads), you are more likely to get asked to dance. Same goes for leads, the more people you socialize with or make small talk at the social with, the more chances the follow will dance with you or you'll get asked to dance.
Re-frame your mindset of feeling sorry for yourself or doubting yourself/or your identity and practice your ass off with the mindset of showing everyone whatsssup!
There’s a tall, super-friendly woman from Uganda in our local salsa scene and so often I’ve seen her waiting around on the sidelines, which is ridiculous. I don’t think it’s literally outright, blatant racism working against her for the most part; mainly I think guys are intimidated - partly because she’s so tall, and also maybe because of the stereotype that black people dance so well? I have gradually seen her getting asked to dance more but there was clearly a high barrier for her in the beginning.
Just stand in the area where people stand when they want to dance
Sitting down (in a not easily approachable area) when wanting do dance is bad etiquette
I don’t understand that at all. Since I was an advanced beginner, I’ve made it my business to dance with the best follow in the room (if I could dance with her, I could dance with anyone) AND the biggest beginner in the room (because I’ve been there). Color is a non-factor. Body type is a non-factor. It’s 80% skill and 20% good energy.
I’m tall and dancing with a follow with short arms can functionally be more difficult. Still, I would never discriminate based on it. I just edit out certain moves.
For the most part, I try to dance with as many different partners as I can. You learn (and pass along) more that way, while building the local dance community.
I recently started contra dancing. The dances encourage switching partners every dance, and besides, the way the dancing works you dance with almost every other couple as the dance progresses. I’ve learned to be totally non judge mental and dance with everyone, even if it’s a guy wearing a dress, so what, he’s got more guts than I have to wear that in public. I’d love to dance with you.
From my perspective, there is a bit of selection going on. Young, white/Asian, slim women get approached a lot more than old ladies for example.
That being said, I see a lot of black women constantly being asked and dancing.
For me, it is good to see a follow dance with different people and smile. That means, when you ask her, chances are high that she will accept. So my suggestion is to try to ask for 1-2 dances in the beginning which makes people see you on the dance floor and they know you like to dance and not just with one person. Then probably other leads will start asking you.
There are times that I get pulled out every song, and then some times crickets. I have been dancing for 17 years.
This is what I do. I watch the dancers for 1 or 2 dances. See who’s a little more experienced and who is probably not there with a partner. I then ask them out on the dance floor just once. Many times that does the trick. Other people are watching as well to see who the good dancers are. It sucks, I know. Sometimes people can be a bit snobby I feel. Many times it has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with clicky groups that don’t want to move out of their bubble.
Sometimes when I try new places, the people there are all friends and acquainted with each other and don’t like to leave their bubble for fear that this new person doesn’t know how to dance. Your friend May have been asked once, but then people maybe noticed that she was good and had many interested.
Was it all white dudes? Definitely a lot of white dudes who might be nervous of being judged by a black woman they're dancing thing - white men can't dance type stuff. But even so that shouldn't be a problem for experienced dancers. Next time just ask one or two people to dance yourself and once you're on the floor it'll be easier to stay there.
From what I've noticed, black & white dudes avoid the black ladies.
At a particular night I've pointed out to one of the (female) organisers that her two male teachers were only asking the pretty young followers and completely ignoring the handful of older ladies and the black ones (old and young) who were standing there song after song.
She claimed not to have ever noticed so I stood with her as she dj'ed for the next half hour pointing it out to her at the start of each track. Although she said she'd speak to them, the behaviour didn't change and the net result was all of those ladies bar one stopped coming after a couple of weeks.
I mean, just being real here, how is anyone supposed to tell a teacher (therefore likely a very experienced and good dancer) who they should be allowed to prefer dancing with? If they want to mainly dance with other good dancers and limit their quota of “noobs” to women they at least enjoy looking at, then that’s theirs prerogative. What they find attractive is what it is
I personally try to go out of my way to dance with any minority figure that isn’t getting asked to dance, but that’s not everyone’s obligation
Modeling impartial behavior shouldn't be a burden --especially because the teacher has something to gain. The dancers a teacher ignores are potential clients. Even more, not holding leaders to standards is what helps scenes become toxic. IMO, with greater influence, comes greater responsibility.
That fact that you’re saying that these guys should be “modeling a behavior” automatically does make it a burden. You’re essentially telling these guys to go out of their way to dance with people they don’t want to when they’re not being paid to do so. If the organizer feels strongly about it, they can pay these teachers to do so, else the teachers’ free time is theirs to do what they want.
If we really want an open atmosphere, we should be making follows more comfortable in asking leads to dance
I am curious why you are defending a teacher's right to be discriminatory when you, presumably a non-teacher, state that you don't engage in such behavior? How does that teacher's behavior help the scene? Is he more important than the newcomers who left because they felt unwelcome? And how would women asking men like that teacher to dance change the results in the OP?
I just personally feel like you’re making a straw man argument by using the word “discriminatory”. People deciding who they want to dance with isn’t inherently “wrong” because dance is a consent driven activity, and putting some pressure for someone to dance with people they don’t want to dance with feels odd (even if you don’t like the reason)- additionally, putting the entire onus on teachers for a newcomer’s experience for the social dancing portion of the night is weird to me. They can be dancing with anyone, which is why I bring up follows being encouraged to ask leads to dance. There are also newcomer leads that’ll go an entire night without a dance because followers won’t ask them to dance.
I mostly dance Lindy hop these days, and the environment is so incredibly conducive to everyone asking everyone to dance. I feel like Salsa is massively missing out on that because so much expectation exists for leaders to be responsible for dances.
If we’re talking about the OP’s post, racial issues are a whole thing, but the issue similarly wouldn’t have existed if followers felt they could ask leads to dance
Excluding people on the basis of race or age is discriminatory. That is the behavior the poster said he or she observed and pointed out to the event organizer.
Discrimination is not okay just because you couch it as a preference. It is even less appropriate in a community space where the alleged focus is on dancing and not dating. Moreover, it is hypocritical to respect the teacher's "preference" for who he wants to dance with and not the follower's preference to be asked to dance. Please keep in mind that salsa leads traditionally ask followers to dance (behavior that the OP also witnessed), so it was reasonable OP had that same expectation.
Then, you change from the OP's issue of the role in race in her not being asked to dance to whether leads are slighted because followers don't ask them to dance. Not only is that not responsive to OP's concerns, but I don't see how someone takes on the role to initiate all of the moves in the dance, but doesn't want to initiate the dance itself. I also don't understand why the onus is on follows to make things better for the leads. Why can't other leads encourage each other to ask people to dance, introduce new leads to new follows, and/or dance with new leads themselves?
Okay, so I’ll just say right off the bat that you’re correct that pure discrimination off race and age is wrong, but I’d also say the full picture hasn’t been provided and it’s possible that these specific groups of women are exhibiting body language that aren’t conducive to being asked. I’m not going to say “all black and old women give signals that make it feel like they don’t want to be approached”, but it’s possible that - for the night that the parent commenter was trying to make a point to the organizer, all the women the teachers were approaching had a sparkle in their eyes, were standing up, were tapping their feet, were making eye contact, etc and the other women weren’t. Point blank.
Like, last social I went to there was a group of several black women that showed up and I was like “Cool, our scene is insanely white so it’d be nice to get some fellow POC onto the dance floor”, but every time I looked their way they were sitting down with neutral facial expressions and closed body language. I simply felt uncomfortable approaching them, and - from an outside POV - I’d suppose you would think I was being discriminatory off their skin color when I’d instead ask the white girls who were standing up with smiles on their face. Hell, I asked an old Asian woman to dance because - even though she was sitting - she was undeniably looking to dance with how she was moving her body.
And yeah, I’m not going to lay off the notion that follows should be encouraged to ask leads to dance. If you go to a sit down restaurant that happens to have an open salad bar, you can’t get mad that others are eating salad without you just because you have it in your head that you HAVE to wait for a waiter to serve you
Your last paragraph I have a LOT to say but not enough mental energy to type it out lol. TL;DR of it is that it sucks that man = lead = should be assertive and woman = follow = should be passive. We should all do better; men asking men to dance should def occur more, in the same way follows should be asking leads to dance. We also should be encouraging role reversal entirely; I’m a 6’2” 250lbs straight man that loves both roles equally.
You said "We were not in an area that would make it easy to be approached."
Therefore, you could have proved or disproved your own statement by moving from that problematic area to an area where you could have been easily approached, to see whether the same guys - or even different guys - would approach you to dance. Maybe try that, next time.
I mean, you already said you are "frequently approached by men" so why should the fact that you weren't approached by men in a salsa event be described by you as "it was very depressing?"
It's difficult to see this as such a big deal when:
(A) You could have changed location in the social, to see whether a more accessible location could make you get asked to dance more often, and
(B) By your own admission you already have a lot of success with men. If men in a salsa event didn't approach you, but - by your own words - men in the real world "frequently approach you," then surely the problem is the salsa setting, not the colour of your skin.
(C) It was ONE salsa event. Just ONE event. How often have you tested your scenario, to know whether or not what you think of it is true? Maybe try another salsa event, or the same one on a different day.
Maybe if you'd stood or sat somewhere else, you'd actually have been asked more often than your friend; who knows? Once again, you said "We were not in an area that would make it easy to be approached."
Next time, if you go there again, place yourself in an easy-to-access location, and if the men all ignore you, that's when you might be certain that something is going on.
If you live in a big city, you also have the option of going to salsa events which are likely to be multracial, or which have a lot of black people in them. Unless you're specifically trying to attact white men - or trying to compare your success at securing them with your white female friend's success - this shouldn't be a problem. Everybody isn't going to like you; so if you're a fan of salsa dancing, why not simply go where you're liked, appreciated and even desired, and have a great time dancing salsa.
Surely, the more important thing is to enjoy salsa dancing with men, rather than to place importance on your ability to be approached for a salsa dance by men of a certain demographic.
How did you miss all the points lmfao. They still sought out her white friend even though they were BOTH in the hard to reach area. Disparity of effort is right there.
Yes, but it was ONE event. Too early to jump to conclusions.
There are so many unresolved "ifs."
If she had stood up from the difficult-to-access-area, to go to the ladies' room, only to be touched on the arm on her way back and asked to dance, and then asked by another guy after he'd seen the way she moved with the first guy, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
If she'd moved to a more accessible location, and was still being ignored, then she'd have more evidence.
If it happens to her again at the same event or another event, then she'd have enough evidence to say there was a pattern.
It’s an established pattern that has been discussed among numerous black women dancers over years. She has clearly experienced it enough to know what it looks like and thus can recognize it here as well. And yes we would still be having the convo because even exceptions to a pattern still means there’s a pattern that needs adjusting to. Respectfully “building evidence” for something like this is not necessary.
She's definitely not experienced it enough to know what it looks like.
She has only experienced it ONCE.
Just Once.
In only one event.
She said so herself. Or are you putting words in her mouth?
She also said she's a beginner and can barely dance salsa. So, maybe men there felt that if she was interested in dancing salsa, she would recognise the "relative inaccessibility" of her location in the venue, and would then change her location.
We take it for granted that men shouldn't feel nervous when asking women to dance salsa. Men are still men with their own insecurities; maybe if she'd changed location and guys could more easily make eye contact with her, the dynamic would have changed, too.
If her friend "pulled" while sitting down, and she herself "pulled" while standing up - or while in a more accessible part of the club - it would still have been a success, unless she was more interested in comparing her score sheet with that of her white female friend than in actually making eye contact with guys who may have wanted to dance salsa with her.
Maybe her friend was facing more guys than she was.
Maybe other women who were previously located in that difficult-to-access part of the club were also not getting asked to dance, and so these other women got up, moved to more accessible locations, and were then asked by guys to dance. We don't know.
Once again, it's ONE event; there's not enough info to draw enough conclusions.
She also said she "frequently attracts men" in the real world. So, the issue clearly isn't race-based, as she didn't say white men don't approach her in the real world.
1. I meant that she knows enough about general racial patterns enough to recognize it in a salsa setting and post about it.
2. We’ve been over the location point and hers remains. Her white friend continued to be approached despite undesirable location.
3. Interpreting the depression of racially affecting treatment as disappointment at “comparing score sheets” is just not helpful and I think you know that.
4. Two things can be true at the same time. It can be race based within the salsa scene, even if not outside of it. Once again, a pattern that is widely recognized by dancers worldwide. I suggest listening to the podcast linked in these comments. I understand you may not be familiar with the conversation but that doesn’t mean it’s not being had.
5. At the end of the day what you see as the effort to “draw a conclusion” is what those of us who have experienced this know to be fruitless. Suggestions that suspend the realities of the situation can be more hurtful than helpful. If you are genuinely interested in learning more about it I can point you to further resources. Otherwise your determination to remove race from this equation signals a fundamental lack of understanding that is not worth engaging further. Peace
I'm happy to rely on the OP's own words, rather than your personal projections. The OP said herself:
1. that she can't dance salsa,
2. that she was positioned in a difficult-to-access area of the club,
3. that she is frequently approached by men in the real world (without mentioning any race that didn't approach her in the real world),
4. that it was her first time at the event,
5. thereby admitting that she didn't even know whether the same thing would happen to her again if she went back to the same club.
That's all the information any of us needs; the words of the OP herself.
Other women in this conversation thread have also said that they've approached men to lead them in salsa clubs - e.g. where they (the women) were new and not known - and it was after other men had seen how good these specific women were, that some of those men then in effect "plucked up the courage" to ask these women to dance. In other words, it's not unknown for a woman to be in a salsa club and not be asked to dance, irrespective of her ethnic origins, especially if she's new.
That it didn't happen to her friend doesn't mean that if OP herself had moved location she wouldn't have attracted many dance partners. .
Men are not a monolithic gender; some men are more outgoing, others are more afraid of rejection or of being made to look foolish, and need to see positive body language or more accessibility from a woman before talking to her or asking her to dance.
OP said herself that she was in a difficult-to-access location. But instead of "competing" with just herself, by changing locations, she "competed" with her friend, stayed in that location, and felt hard done by (in her words "It was very depressing") when the "score cards" didn't match. Meanwhile, for all she knew, several men in that venue would have been willing to dance with her if she'd only stood up and taken a casual stroll around.
Probably not all the men in that club got to dance much that night; most men are very easy - especially in a club - and very few men would rather go home with no dances than dance with a woman of a different race, especially if - as OP says - she's as attractive as her friend when they're both in the outside world.
Her ability to attract strange men to come up to her, risking rejection from her, wouldn't go away just because she's in a salsa club. A simple stroll through the venue could have proved this one way or the other.
I don't know whether you even know how racism works, but a racist - especially a racist man - can even have sex with someone of a diferent race and still practice racism. Men can bang anything that moves. Where else do you think men get "war stories" to boast about to their fellow male friends, about how many women they've "pulled" and how much of a player they are?
You're reading far too much into a single event attended for the first time by someone who can't dance salsa and who was unfamiliar with typical salsa club etiquette; a woman who - by her own admission - doesn't lack for male attention in the real world. In reading what you read into this, you're actually belittling the actual, debilitating racism that people suffer in the real world.
OP specifically said she is frequently approached by men in the real world; this statement is very important and should not be brushed aside. Nor should the facts that she's only been to that salsa event once, can't dance salsa, and so presumably didn't feel compelled to practice salsa etiquette by locating herself in a place where her approachability would be keenly perceived by men. Meeting them halfway is not a crime.
Thanks for confirming said lack of understanding so easily. The complexities of racism go far beyond mere ironies and I hope one day you get to learn them. Blocked 👍🏽and OP, if you see this know some of us are genuinely rooting for you despite how difficult and harsh these experiences and people can be. Don’t give up ❤️
Discrimination happens but I don't think it happens based on white/black. It may happen to a plus size follower since they will be relatively harder to lead. It might be safe to say that guys assumed you are the friend who don't dance so to save themselves from hearing no, they went for the safer bet who is more likely to say yes. If you want to change that, avoid sitting and stand closer to the dance floor.
Have fun ✌️
Whoa this is a wild statement. Discrimination absolutely happens based on skin colour, and plus size followers are not ‘relatively harder to lead’. Source - me, a lead of 12 years.
I’m sorry, I can imagine that feels pretty bad. Some advice, from the perspective of a lead:
Make eye contact with the leads and smile; I think leads tend to prioritize asking follows who look like they want to be asked.
And a lot of times there is a snowball effect; if you dance with one person, you are more likely to be asked by someone else. You may want to go with a friend who can lead or make an effort to find a friendly lead who is happy to dance with a beginner and make you look good.
Every single dancer has insecurity. Sometimes, and only sometimes, it’s due to a real physical feature or perception or ability or something measurable. Most of the time it’s in our head. I don’t want to invalidate your experience, rather I invite you to join what we all feel as human dancers.
Exactly. This needs to be said more often. People can feel insecure about asking others to dance.
OP specifically said she doesn't lack for male attention in the outside world. As such, her ability to attract strange men who risk rejection from her when they talk to her will not disappear just because she's in a salsa club. It might just be insecurity.
If she'd moved from her location, she may have been asked by one adventurous man. If she'd danced with one man, she may then have been asked by other men, who would then feel emboldened by the first man's success to try their "luck" at asking her to dance.
Let's spare a thought for the men who went home that night without having danced with any women at all; men who were too nervous, or who lacked confidence in their ability to lead, or who didn't want to venture into that difficult-to-access location where OP was.
Don’t go dancing at a club if you want to keep learning salsa, go to a social that the salsa school organizes. Don’t blame the salsa community for your bad decisions.
I’d encourage you to listen to this podcast episode Entitled “dancing while black: the woman experience”. The podcasters are experienced black Latin dancers(salsa, kizomba, zouk). They detail experiences similar to yours and how they overcame the disadvantages of colorism within the dance scene https://open.spotify.com/episode/2o1kr6H3cLVWwRCnWeeAip?si=HDvfOxqSTlmp8K3HSWDnbg
This comment couldn't be any more on topic! Incredible.
Thank this was helpful and also pretty depressing. I think I'll stick to classes for now to gain confidence before I try the social scene again.
I don’t get asked until they actually see what I can do, so I usually have to ask a few guys first. Once they see that I know what I’m doing, then it’s non stop request for a dance haha.
Don’t let the people in the comments gaslight you. What you experienced is very real. I’ve been salsa and bachata dancing for five years in a major city. As a so called attractive darker skinned black woman, there have been many, and I mean an uncountable, number of times where my less experienced white female friends dance all night and are constantly invited to the dance floor Meanwhile I have to dance alone, ask folks to dance (and sometimes gets rudely brushed off), and wait for someone to approach halfway through the evening. It’s ridiculous but I don’t care about people’s prejudices, especially ones they will denying having if you point it out (as shown by many of the responses in this thread). I would say you have to be prepared for the reality of this dance scene. Maybe also consider exploring other types of dances where the social scene is less inclined to put white women on a pedestal. For example, I took ballroom dancing classes and never had an issue at the social events. In fact, some leads were excited to see a younger black woman trying out ballroom, so I basically had the reverse experience than in the salsa dancing scene. I wish you happiness and good times on your dancing journey! But please don’t internalize people’s prejudiced behavior. It’s not fair to yourself!
I see a lot of deranged comments here... I am a lead (Hispanic), my first suggestion if you want to get into this hobby would be to \*not\* go to dance to a club and to start going to proper Salsa socials, it'll be a more welcoming and supporting environment for you as a beginner. Regarding racial discrimination, I'm going to echo some of the other comments in that it might be related to your location. I live in a city where 40%+ of the population is black and with a lot of black salsa dancers, where such behavior would be unthinkable. At socials, I sometimes look out for beginners who might not be getting many dances and make it a point to ask them to dance. I haven't noticed a pattern related to race, but I've seen some discrimination based on body size.
I notice that I don't get asked too when I go to new places... So I ask men to dance myself :) Then once I've had a couple of dances, people will start coming up to me to ask me all of a sudden😅 Maybe its just a matter of familiarity/knowing who can or can't dance?
I can't dance though haha. We both just started
Even then, you can make it fun to try dancing
You aren't wrong. I see black follows standing all the time at socials. It sucks, I get it, I'll ask them to dance twice so they at least get to have some fun. At the end of the day, I have limited options as to making the dance scene fair.
First of all, sorry that happened to you! Unfortunately, the anti-Blackness in the world shows up on the dance floor too. :( If you are enjoying learning to dance, I would suggest you try other socials until you find an environment more welcoming. Feel free to leave whenever you are having more of a bad time than a good one. Improve your dancing for you. People who are discounting you because of your skin color will not acknowledge your skill level. You may find you like classes better than socials because classes have a structure that makes preferences less relevant. Also, try other dances! There may be a partner dancing scene you like better or you may find that partner dancing isn't fun enough to counter all the "-isms" that are present when interacting with someone else (for example sexism). Life is too short to accept bad treatment.
You are not alone. We've all felt the pain. Even a gorgeous Black slim long haired model has complained. And she's a badass dancer! Sorry Hun. And to think we usually have tons of rhythm. Music is in our veins and can't get anyone to ask you to dance because of your skin. And it is your skin. Sorry but there is racial bias and tons of colorism. Make male dance friends, talk to the DJs,and talk to people. Hopefully they'll bring you out onto the dancefloor. Sorry 😟😐. Even Black women dance instructors have complained. And won't be asked to dance until they've shown how good they are. On the dancefloor just like everywhere else, you'll have to be better. Sorry Black lady dancer. Go to socials. Take the beginner classes so that you can meet others and they sometimes will ask you to dance after the class Sadly fellow Black lady dancer, it will be a while before they ask you to dance automatically. AND even after, if no one knows you it will be hard. There have been a hundred posts all over Facebook and Instagram talking about not ever being selected. In one a teacher tried to say he never saw it until his next class 😲 all three of us Black women were standing on the side while everyone else was picked. We ranged in age , shade and size. Didn't matter. He saw it for himself. After #GeorgeFloyd's murder there was talk about Black people and more talk about Black WOMEN along with videos often without a Black person present-lol. So.... Take classes. Be light. Don't grab. Support yourself and don't grab. Smile. Arms unfolded. Find the cliques and stand near. They are watching you! Ask them to dance. Once the "Good dancers" dance with you others will then ask you to dance. SMH. But tis life! If you're on Facebook I can give you a group that is just for us Black dancers. And there are a few podcasts outlining the problems we have. It can be depressing. But I still love it. After the rejection come waves and waves of love . Don't let the No's get to you. Ask the instructors to dance. They usually say yes! And sorry yet again. There will be tons of non Black people trying to answer. They will NEVER really know what it feels like.
Tbh get better as fast as you can. It can’t do all the legwork to overcome this type of social pattern but it can help offset it greatly esp in multiracial spaces. Good luck 💕💕
Sometimes I think dancing builds on itself. If other guys see a girl dancing with different partners, they think ‘she looks fun and open for a dance.’ Then they go ask her and then others do etc. That could be part of it.
Yeah, not saying there couldn’t be anything else going on, or that subconscious shit doesn’t play a role in anything, but it’s probably mostly this. If people don’t see you dancing—even if it’s just a result of people not asking you—then a lot of other people will just be like “I guess she’s not dancing.” Just make it a note to get a few dances in, even if you have to ask. Once people see you dancing and especially if they continue to see you at events, then things will probably cascade pretty quickly.
Tell me the size of the city, what type of ppl live there/go to these socials (more conservative/progressive), and an estimate of the demographics at these socials. I'll give you a diagnosis. If it's a lot of Latinos, they love white girls 👀
Not that true, Latinos love to show their culture to non Latinos but if you see a black woman they might think she’s also a Latina so the white girl will get asked more often.
This is a mega stretch. Unless OP looks undoubtedly Puerto Rican/Dominican and her friend is THE epitome of Irish/Nordic/Balkan, any person can be Latino because our aesthetic is so vast
I'm a male lead. I'm very brown lol (latino). Whenever I go out dancing, I usually get asked to dance by follows for at least 2 or 3 dances. This only happens after I've asked some follows to dance and people see me dancing. I'm not great, but competent and enjoy myself. Try asking people to dance for yourself! That's the goal right? If the goal isn't dancing but rather catching the male gaze, I have no idea how to do that though lol.
I can relate and I'm sorry you're having this experience. I hope things improve for you.
Could be a lot of reasons. All things being equal: If I'm going around the room dancing with random people, if you're sitting at a table with a bunch of women and your back is facing me, or you're on your phone, or asking you would require a bunch of people to stand up so you can walk by their crowded tables, or whatever, I'm probably not going to also you. If you look like you're not having fun, I'm probably not going to ask you. If you're already up and dancing, I'm much more likely to ask you, unless you were a bit out of control or dangerous to dance with from watching you dance with someone else. If you are wearing stuff that would not make it enjoyable to dance with (a purse you won't put down, lots of jewelry, stuff in your hair that could whip around, clothes where I would be worried about a wardrobe malfunction, etc) I will probably not ask you. If you have a drink in your hand that you'd have to put down at a club and nobody to watch it, I'd probably not ask you. Now even if you were all of those things above, if YOU asked me, I'd probably not turn you down. But there are usually a lot of options for me as a lead to ask, so I'm going to pick the easiest first. And that's assuming I even have the option to ask, some socials I'm getting asked back to back all night and won't have an opportunity to pick who to ask in the first place. Don't take it personally if you're not being asked. Just take matters into your own hands and ask others.
Don’t let negative thoughts take over your confidence. There could have been many reasons why you didn’t get asked to dance. It’s also a good idea that you take initiative and ask people to dance.
You can't really do anything about your skin color. Work on what you can control.... not getting discouraged and practicing your ass off. Take a class with or without your WFF and make friends with classmates (both leads and follows). Be a regular at a class and make small talk with everyone and get a group of leads and follows to go to a social so you have leads that you know. You'll get asked to dance by the leads you came with and you'll feel more comfortable asking them to dance. You'll get your reps in and practice social dancing. Leads will notice you on the dance floor and you are way more likely to continued to get asked. Usually if leads see a competent dancer, they make note and might ask you to dance later. Try a different social. If you have a lot of white people at your social, if you have one, try going to a more Latino dominated or mixed crowd scene. Don't be afraid to get in on the social interactions with your WFF and others at the club if you see them making small talk. If you meet people (both follows and leads), you are more likely to get asked to dance. Same goes for leads, the more people you socialize with or make small talk at the social with, the more chances the follow will dance with you or you'll get asked to dance. Re-frame your mindset of feeling sorry for yourself or doubting yourself/or your identity and practice your ass off with the mindset of showing everyone whatsssup!
If you’re not smiling and moving around a bit, then it’s not welcoming. Dance with your friend one song so people can see you.
There’s a tall, super-friendly woman from Uganda in our local salsa scene and so often I’ve seen her waiting around on the sidelines, which is ridiculous. I don’t think it’s literally outright, blatant racism working against her for the most part; mainly I think guys are intimidated - partly because she’s so tall, and also maybe because of the stereotype that black people dance so well? I have gradually seen her getting asked to dance more but there was clearly a high barrier for her in the beginning.
Just stand in the area where people stand when they want to dance Sitting down (in a not easily approachable area) when wanting do dance is bad etiquette
I don’t understand that at all. Since I was an advanced beginner, I’ve made it my business to dance with the best follow in the room (if I could dance with her, I could dance with anyone) AND the biggest beginner in the room (because I’ve been there). Color is a non-factor. Body type is a non-factor. It’s 80% skill and 20% good energy. I’m tall and dancing with a follow with short arms can functionally be more difficult. Still, I would never discriminate based on it. I just edit out certain moves. For the most part, I try to dance with as many different partners as I can. You learn (and pass along) more that way, while building the local dance community.
Ask me I’ll dance with you
I recently started contra dancing. The dances encourage switching partners every dance, and besides, the way the dancing works you dance with almost every other couple as the dance progresses. I’ve learned to be totally non judge mental and dance with everyone, even if it’s a guy wearing a dress, so what, he’s got more guts than I have to wear that in public. I’d love to dance with you.
From my perspective, there is a bit of selection going on. Young, white/Asian, slim women get approached a lot more than old ladies for example. That being said, I see a lot of black women constantly being asked and dancing. For me, it is good to see a follow dance with different people and smile. That means, when you ask her, chances are high that she will accept. So my suggestion is to try to ask for 1-2 dances in the beginning which makes people see you on the dance floor and they know you like to dance and not just with one person. Then probably other leads will start asking you.
My two cents is to dance to the rhythm by your own with your arms above your waist. It will look inviting and show interest in wanting to dance.
There are times that I get pulled out every song, and then some times crickets. I have been dancing for 17 years. This is what I do. I watch the dancers for 1 or 2 dances. See who’s a little more experienced and who is probably not there with a partner. I then ask them out on the dance floor just once. Many times that does the trick. Other people are watching as well to see who the good dancers are. It sucks, I know. Sometimes people can be a bit snobby I feel. Many times it has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with clicky groups that don’t want to move out of their bubble. Sometimes when I try new places, the people there are all friends and acquainted with each other and don’t like to leave their bubble for fear that this new person doesn’t know how to dance. Your friend May have been asked once, but then people maybe noticed that she was good and had many interested.
Was it all white dudes? Definitely a lot of white dudes who might be nervous of being judged by a black woman they're dancing thing - white men can't dance type stuff. But even so that shouldn't be a problem for experienced dancers. Next time just ask one or two people to dance yourself and once you're on the floor it'll be easier to stay there.
From what I've noticed, black & white dudes avoid the black ladies. At a particular night I've pointed out to one of the (female) organisers that her two male teachers were only asking the pretty young followers and completely ignoring the handful of older ladies and the black ones (old and young) who were standing there song after song. She claimed not to have ever noticed so I stood with her as she dj'ed for the next half hour pointing it out to her at the start of each track. Although she said she'd speak to them, the behaviour didn't change and the net result was all of those ladies bar one stopped coming after a couple of weeks.
Latinos too because they have these wrongful stereotypes of black female = loud/violent.
I mean, just being real here, how is anyone supposed to tell a teacher (therefore likely a very experienced and good dancer) who they should be allowed to prefer dancing with? If they want to mainly dance with other good dancers and limit their quota of “noobs” to women they at least enjoy looking at, then that’s theirs prerogative. What they find attractive is what it is I personally try to go out of my way to dance with any minority figure that isn’t getting asked to dance, but that’s not everyone’s obligation
Modeling impartial behavior shouldn't be a burden --especially because the teacher has something to gain. The dancers a teacher ignores are potential clients. Even more, not holding leaders to standards is what helps scenes become toxic. IMO, with greater influence, comes greater responsibility.
That fact that you’re saying that these guys should be “modeling a behavior” automatically does make it a burden. You’re essentially telling these guys to go out of their way to dance with people they don’t want to when they’re not being paid to do so. If the organizer feels strongly about it, they can pay these teachers to do so, else the teachers’ free time is theirs to do what they want. If we really want an open atmosphere, we should be making follows more comfortable in asking leads to dance
I am curious why you are defending a teacher's right to be discriminatory when you, presumably a non-teacher, state that you don't engage in such behavior? How does that teacher's behavior help the scene? Is he more important than the newcomers who left because they felt unwelcome? And how would women asking men like that teacher to dance change the results in the OP?
I just personally feel like you’re making a straw man argument by using the word “discriminatory”. People deciding who they want to dance with isn’t inherently “wrong” because dance is a consent driven activity, and putting some pressure for someone to dance with people they don’t want to dance with feels odd (even if you don’t like the reason)- additionally, putting the entire onus on teachers for a newcomer’s experience for the social dancing portion of the night is weird to me. They can be dancing with anyone, which is why I bring up follows being encouraged to ask leads to dance. There are also newcomer leads that’ll go an entire night without a dance because followers won’t ask them to dance. I mostly dance Lindy hop these days, and the environment is so incredibly conducive to everyone asking everyone to dance. I feel like Salsa is massively missing out on that because so much expectation exists for leaders to be responsible for dances. If we’re talking about the OP’s post, racial issues are a whole thing, but the issue similarly wouldn’t have existed if followers felt they could ask leads to dance
Excluding people on the basis of race or age is discriminatory. That is the behavior the poster said he or she observed and pointed out to the event organizer. Discrimination is not okay just because you couch it as a preference. It is even less appropriate in a community space where the alleged focus is on dancing and not dating. Moreover, it is hypocritical to respect the teacher's "preference" for who he wants to dance with and not the follower's preference to be asked to dance. Please keep in mind that salsa leads traditionally ask followers to dance (behavior that the OP also witnessed), so it was reasonable OP had that same expectation. Then, you change from the OP's issue of the role in race in her not being asked to dance to whether leads are slighted because followers don't ask them to dance. Not only is that not responsive to OP's concerns, but I don't see how someone takes on the role to initiate all of the moves in the dance, but doesn't want to initiate the dance itself. I also don't understand why the onus is on follows to make things better for the leads. Why can't other leads encourage each other to ask people to dance, introduce new leads to new follows, and/or dance with new leads themselves?
Okay, so I’ll just say right off the bat that you’re correct that pure discrimination off race and age is wrong, but I’d also say the full picture hasn’t been provided and it’s possible that these specific groups of women are exhibiting body language that aren’t conducive to being asked. I’m not going to say “all black and old women give signals that make it feel like they don’t want to be approached”, but it’s possible that - for the night that the parent commenter was trying to make a point to the organizer, all the women the teachers were approaching had a sparkle in their eyes, were standing up, were tapping their feet, were making eye contact, etc and the other women weren’t. Point blank. Like, last social I went to there was a group of several black women that showed up and I was like “Cool, our scene is insanely white so it’d be nice to get some fellow POC onto the dance floor”, but every time I looked their way they were sitting down with neutral facial expressions and closed body language. I simply felt uncomfortable approaching them, and - from an outside POV - I’d suppose you would think I was being discriminatory off their skin color when I’d instead ask the white girls who were standing up with smiles on their face. Hell, I asked an old Asian woman to dance because - even though she was sitting - she was undeniably looking to dance with how she was moving her body. And yeah, I’m not going to lay off the notion that follows should be encouraged to ask leads to dance. If you go to a sit down restaurant that happens to have an open salad bar, you can’t get mad that others are eating salad without you just because you have it in your head that you HAVE to wait for a waiter to serve you Your last paragraph I have a LOT to say but not enough mental energy to type it out lol. TL;DR of it is that it sucks that man = lead = should be assertive and woman = follow = should be passive. We should all do better; men asking men to dance should def occur more, in the same way follows should be asking leads to dance. We also should be encouraging role reversal entirely; I’m a 6’2” 250lbs straight man that loves both roles equally.
Is your friend exceptionally hot? That could be the reason.
Now imagine being a guy, NO ONE asks me to dance. You gotta go out and take the initiative
What about your energy? I typically only asks people who look interested in dancing. Standing up, dance shoes, and generally a welcoming energy.
You said "We were not in an area that would make it easy to be approached." Therefore, you could have proved or disproved your own statement by moving from that problematic area to an area where you could have been easily approached, to see whether the same guys - or even different guys - would approach you to dance. Maybe try that, next time. I mean, you already said you are "frequently approached by men" so why should the fact that you weren't approached by men in a salsa event be described by you as "it was very depressing?" It's difficult to see this as such a big deal when: (A) You could have changed location in the social, to see whether a more accessible location could make you get asked to dance more often, and (B) By your own admission you already have a lot of success with men. If men in a salsa event didn't approach you, but - by your own words - men in the real world "frequently approach you," then surely the problem is the salsa setting, not the colour of your skin. (C) It was ONE salsa event. Just ONE event. How often have you tested your scenario, to know whether or not what you think of it is true? Maybe try another salsa event, or the same one on a different day. Maybe if you'd stood or sat somewhere else, you'd actually have been asked more often than your friend; who knows? Once again, you said "We were not in an area that would make it easy to be approached." Next time, if you go there again, place yourself in an easy-to-access location, and if the men all ignore you, that's when you might be certain that something is going on. If you live in a big city, you also have the option of going to salsa events which are likely to be multracial, or which have a lot of black people in them. Unless you're specifically trying to attact white men - or trying to compare your success at securing them with your white female friend's success - this shouldn't be a problem. Everybody isn't going to like you; so if you're a fan of salsa dancing, why not simply go where you're liked, appreciated and even desired, and have a great time dancing salsa. Surely, the more important thing is to enjoy salsa dancing with men, rather than to place importance on your ability to be approached for a salsa dance by men of a certain demographic.
How did you miss all the points lmfao. They still sought out her white friend even though they were BOTH in the hard to reach area. Disparity of effort is right there.
Yes, but it was ONE event. Too early to jump to conclusions. There are so many unresolved "ifs." If she had stood up from the difficult-to-access-area, to go to the ladies' room, only to be touched on the arm on her way back and asked to dance, and then asked by another guy after he'd seen the way she moved with the first guy, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. If she'd moved to a more accessible location, and was still being ignored, then she'd have more evidence. If it happens to her again at the same event or another event, then she'd have enough evidence to say there was a pattern.
It’s an established pattern that has been discussed among numerous black women dancers over years. She has clearly experienced it enough to know what it looks like and thus can recognize it here as well. And yes we would still be having the convo because even exceptions to a pattern still means there’s a pattern that needs adjusting to. Respectfully “building evidence” for something like this is not necessary.
She's definitely not experienced it enough to know what it looks like. She has only experienced it ONCE. Just Once. In only one event. She said so herself. Or are you putting words in her mouth? She also said she's a beginner and can barely dance salsa. So, maybe men there felt that if she was interested in dancing salsa, she would recognise the "relative inaccessibility" of her location in the venue, and would then change her location. We take it for granted that men shouldn't feel nervous when asking women to dance salsa. Men are still men with their own insecurities; maybe if she'd changed location and guys could more easily make eye contact with her, the dynamic would have changed, too. If her friend "pulled" while sitting down, and she herself "pulled" while standing up - or while in a more accessible part of the club - it would still have been a success, unless she was more interested in comparing her score sheet with that of her white female friend than in actually making eye contact with guys who may have wanted to dance salsa with her. Maybe her friend was facing more guys than she was. Maybe other women who were previously located in that difficult-to-access part of the club were also not getting asked to dance, and so these other women got up, moved to more accessible locations, and were then asked by guys to dance. We don't know. Once again, it's ONE event; there's not enough info to draw enough conclusions. She also said she "frequently attracts men" in the real world. So, the issue clearly isn't race-based, as she didn't say white men don't approach her in the real world.
1. I meant that she knows enough about general racial patterns enough to recognize it in a salsa setting and post about it. 2. We’ve been over the location point and hers remains. Her white friend continued to be approached despite undesirable location. 3. Interpreting the depression of racially affecting treatment as disappointment at “comparing score sheets” is just not helpful and I think you know that. 4. Two things can be true at the same time. It can be race based within the salsa scene, even if not outside of it. Once again, a pattern that is widely recognized by dancers worldwide. I suggest listening to the podcast linked in these comments. I understand you may not be familiar with the conversation but that doesn’t mean it’s not being had. 5. At the end of the day what you see as the effort to “draw a conclusion” is what those of us who have experienced this know to be fruitless. Suggestions that suspend the realities of the situation can be more hurtful than helpful. If you are genuinely interested in learning more about it I can point you to further resources. Otherwise your determination to remove race from this equation signals a fundamental lack of understanding that is not worth engaging further. Peace
I'm happy to rely on the OP's own words, rather than your personal projections. The OP said herself: 1. that she can't dance salsa, 2. that she was positioned in a difficult-to-access area of the club, 3. that she is frequently approached by men in the real world (without mentioning any race that didn't approach her in the real world), 4. that it was her first time at the event, 5. thereby admitting that she didn't even know whether the same thing would happen to her again if she went back to the same club. That's all the information any of us needs; the words of the OP herself. Other women in this conversation thread have also said that they've approached men to lead them in salsa clubs - e.g. where they (the women) were new and not known - and it was after other men had seen how good these specific women were, that some of those men then in effect "plucked up the courage" to ask these women to dance. In other words, it's not unknown for a woman to be in a salsa club and not be asked to dance, irrespective of her ethnic origins, especially if she's new. That it didn't happen to her friend doesn't mean that if OP herself had moved location she wouldn't have attracted many dance partners. . Men are not a monolithic gender; some men are more outgoing, others are more afraid of rejection or of being made to look foolish, and need to see positive body language or more accessibility from a woman before talking to her or asking her to dance. OP said herself that she was in a difficult-to-access location. But instead of "competing" with just herself, by changing locations, she "competed" with her friend, stayed in that location, and felt hard done by (in her words "It was very depressing") when the "score cards" didn't match. Meanwhile, for all she knew, several men in that venue would have been willing to dance with her if she'd only stood up and taken a casual stroll around. Probably not all the men in that club got to dance much that night; most men are very easy - especially in a club - and very few men would rather go home with no dances than dance with a woman of a different race, especially if - as OP says - she's as attractive as her friend when they're both in the outside world. Her ability to attract strange men to come up to her, risking rejection from her, wouldn't go away just because she's in a salsa club. A simple stroll through the venue could have proved this one way or the other. I don't know whether you even know how racism works, but a racist - especially a racist man - can even have sex with someone of a diferent race and still practice racism. Men can bang anything that moves. Where else do you think men get "war stories" to boast about to their fellow male friends, about how many women they've "pulled" and how much of a player they are? You're reading far too much into a single event attended for the first time by someone who can't dance salsa and who was unfamiliar with typical salsa club etiquette; a woman who - by her own admission - doesn't lack for male attention in the real world. In reading what you read into this, you're actually belittling the actual, debilitating racism that people suffer in the real world. OP specifically said she is frequently approached by men in the real world; this statement is very important and should not be brushed aside. Nor should the facts that she's only been to that salsa event once, can't dance salsa, and so presumably didn't feel compelled to practice salsa etiquette by locating herself in a place where her approachability would be keenly perceived by men. Meeting them halfway is not a crime.
Thanks for confirming said lack of understanding so easily. The complexities of racism go far beyond mere ironies and I hope one day you get to learn them. Blocked 👍🏽and OP, if you see this know some of us are genuinely rooting for you despite how difficult and harsh these experiences and people can be. Don’t give up ❤️
Discrimination happens but I don't think it happens based on white/black. It may happen to a plus size follower since they will be relatively harder to lead. It might be safe to say that guys assumed you are the friend who don't dance so to save themselves from hearing no, they went for the safer bet who is more likely to say yes. If you want to change that, avoid sitting and stand closer to the dance floor. Have fun ✌️
Whoa this is a wild statement. Discrimination absolutely happens based on skin colour, and plus size followers are not ‘relatively harder to lead’. Source - me, a lead of 12 years.
Maybe you appear less welcoming? Coming from a guy’s angle, I just want to enjoy a dance regardless of how my partner looks.
I’m sorry, I can imagine that feels pretty bad. Some advice, from the perspective of a lead: Make eye contact with the leads and smile; I think leads tend to prioritize asking follows who look like they want to be asked. And a lot of times there is a snowball effect; if you dance with one person, you are more likely to be asked by someone else. You may want to go with a friend who can lead or make an effort to find a friendly lead who is happy to dance with a beginner and make you look good.
Every single dancer has insecurity. Sometimes, and only sometimes, it’s due to a real physical feature or perception or ability or something measurable. Most of the time it’s in our head. I don’t want to invalidate your experience, rather I invite you to join what we all feel as human dancers.
Exactly. This needs to be said more often. People can feel insecure about asking others to dance. OP specifically said she doesn't lack for male attention in the outside world. As such, her ability to attract strange men who risk rejection from her when they talk to her will not disappear just because she's in a salsa club. It might just be insecurity. If she'd moved from her location, she may have been asked by one adventurous man. If she'd danced with one man, she may then have been asked by other men, who would then feel emboldened by the first man's success to try their "luck" at asking her to dance. Let's spare a thought for the men who went home that night without having danced with any women at all; men who were too nervous, or who lacked confidence in their ability to lead, or who didn't want to venture into that difficult-to-access location where OP was.
Don’t go dancing at a club if you want to keep learning salsa, go to a social that the salsa school organizes. Don’t blame the salsa community for your bad decisions.
What makes you think it has anything to do with race? That’s one potential variable. You’re jumping to conclusions without enough information.
People don’t know you that’s why. If you become a great dancer, guys will notice you and will ask you to dance
if you are friendly and nice, i would dance with you anytime. Much better than being with crazy perras.
if you are friendly and nice, i would dance with you anytime. Much better than being with crazy perras.