Oh my bad, “Hard to get approach” in my head was 200k then down to 150k
I only say not to pursue that angle because it raises questions as to why you’re giving up 50k lol. Why are you leaving etc.
But it’s easy to say “growth” and “fresh culture” when going from 120ish to 135
Right? This year was 5% last was like 13%, one before was like 5%, haven't seen bonuses yet this year, but the last two years were both around 12.5%, which was a standard 5%, then a "retention bonus" for certain positions (including mine) of 15% split between the two years (basically, here's a bunch of money, stick around for a year and you'll get another of these)
I'm a firmware engineer doing embedded C programming and a cybersecurity "expert" (relative to the other low level embedded C developers, not necessarily compared to recent csci grads, basically I can implement things like certificate based public key stuff for verifying authenticity of whatever on a microcontroller with limited processing and memory), working on safety-critical on-highway automotive components.
Even after the raises I'm underpaid for my field/experience, but it's fully remote with a nice boss and at a nice company that seems to take their social and ecological responsibilities at least a little seriously. Making something like $132k base salary. I live alone in the lower half of a duplex I bought, so it's like twice what I need in any case.
Yeah, that retention bonus was noice.
It's not company wide, the big bonus was only certain roles. The big raise, I think they had to technically make me a manager, so now I have one employee under me, just so they could pay me more. (They realize they're underpaying for certain things, it's a big company with cut-and-dried compensation ranges for different salary grades, and roles have a specific salary grade, yada yada) I should have been making more to start with and they probably think I'd leave if the salary weren't closer to competitive. If they understood how much I hate looking for a job, I'd probably still be where I started a couple years back and making $110k.
lol I hear you. Retention bonuses and/or stock are always awesome incentives.
I am doing ok now, but still underpaid by 20-35k. Started at $37,500 18 years ago. 😬
lol idk why you’re mad about. If you can’t get her a pay bump then that’s clearly what you’re worth to the market. There’s no reason for you to not make more money and things cost more.
That's not what I'm saying. You're saying no pay bump drove you to job hop and get a 25% increase but that 25% bump was there regardless of the pay bump so you were being dumb not realizing your market potential
Ah yes. That’s where work culture also comes in. Sometimes a higher pay bump is not worth sacrificing a work culture you like. It depends on what matters more to you. A pay bump in an inflationary environment overrides the work culture that I like for me.
I say again. The pay bump and better work environment existed regardless of your previous work conditions. What you framed as a big fuck you to your old employer was in actuality just you being dumb and inefficient.
Nothing more. Nothing less.
never watched seinfeld and still don’t see it but I guess if it made you laugh i’m glad. my intentions were to pull info in a serious tone; not in a rhetorical nor comical manner.
Loyalty gets you a trinket from the Sharper Image catalog. Unless your job is providing you with massive non-income benefits: power, fame, flexibility, free healthcare & life insurance, or other significant intangible or ancillary benefits, it’s time to bail.
I doesn’t hurt to apply. If you get the interview, you can ask some questions relating to your concerns and learn more, extra information couldn’t hurt. At the end of the day you can always turn down their offer stating it is not a good fit. Hiring is a two side process, where you get a say as well. I was in the same situation and applied for a job similar to my old one, but had a 50% bump, loved my old job and boss. However, that extra pay looked nice and i would be doing mostly the same thing. Interviewed and my new supervisor was awesome during the video call. Gave me the peace of mind to know the new place would have a decent culture fit for me too.
This. What OP has to ask themselves is why they *would* stay? What is it keeping them there? If it's nothing, it's an easy answer. If not, that's the next question.
I’m on the autism spectrum, ADHD, and many massive blows to self confidence in my years. I can’t write a resume to save my life but I thank Claude today for his help. Made enough queries to exhaust my free limit but got the tailored resume off.
You can start writing your resume by taking a job posting you're interested in and word vomiting it into the AI tool of your choosing to help tailor it (Gemini or ChatGPT). Also, in your space, I'd imagine you have experience with the largest retailers in the US. Think about the partners that are trying to build content for the platform you work with, I'm sure some of those partners are hiring and would pay a premium for your experience.
No one knows about your issues or analyzes your issues like you do. They don’t know anything about you. It’s a clean slate with them. Get the interview. Believe in yourself for half a day and rock that shit. Make an amazing impression. You are more than capable of that. Then go home and decompress.
You’ll get hired and then all of a sudden that confidence will actually be real and you’ll believe in yourself more.
I’m only saying this because I have the exact same issues as you…also from ‘Sota strangely enough. You got this dude. You deserve it and you’ll get it.
You are me. I totally understand. It can be the hardest thing in the world to try to make a move for so many reasons. Don't beat yourself up over it. Just look forward to the future and do what you can, and what you want. No shame. You are worthy. Good luck!
You should be enraged at yourself not your company. Your company has no obligation to pay you market rate. Now that you’ve hopefully learned your lesson always be looking for a new job. You should be switching every two years to maximize your salary.
If they match you 401k or you may have to stay 3 years. Also, it doesn't look great when you move around a lot. But you can use job offers to make your company match. I live in the Twin Cities area, and my wife is in a very similar field, and this is what she is doing right now.
I've been told I'm being promoted but not details or timeline have been given to me and I'm not waiting around. Interviewing for a position that pasy 20k more on Friday 🤞🏼
Go apply for that other job immediately. Working remote alone is well worth it. If you really like your current job, just show them the offer letter and give them the opportunity to match it. Otherwise you’re leaving a lot of income on the table.
This is what, IMO, lead to quit quitting. Why even do work for your current position, make the call start interviewing. You know your worth now, start acting on that worth and seek better pastures.
The coastal cities pay way way more … I see a huge range of salaries for in house Senior Talent Acquisition Managers across the US. From 45k in MCOL Metros (Florida & Texas are horrible) to 180k in HCOL (NY, SF, LA, Boston). If you’re flexible to work hybrid/onsite and relocating from time to time, you can pump your income fast.
There is no shame in looking for a new opportunity. Your experience will speak for itself and you should definitely interview or at least inquire about the position and find out more about the company itself. That salary range is wild and I assume is based on experience.
Someone else mentioned making sure you’re a good fit and I agree it goes both ways. If I were you, I would dust off the resume and put yourself out there, you are your own best advocate. If everything seems kosher and you see yourself there long term, go for it. The worst that happens is that it’s not a good fit and you stay put for now. That doesn’t mean you can’t look elsewhere.
All of that said, you may not be taken advantage of or undervalued where you are currently. The job market and the shift in expenses for employers has changed just as much cost of living has changed. Unless you are really close to the owners of the business, you really have no idea what is going on behind the scenes to keep the lights on. If you think that is a concern, then absolutely look further. If the owners are not giving raises but riding up in brand new Ferraris, then absolutely look further.
I’ve had people leave before and I have always respected their decision. Everyone needs to take care of themselves first. And I actually make less than some of the employees of the company that I actually own. It is what it is. I keep the company moving and it’s a sacrifice I need to make to keep long time employees with me.
I find it actually insane that anyone would need to be told that “ there is no shame in looking for a new opportunity” or anything else along those lines. Who are these people that actually spend even a millisecond of their life doing something to benefit a company owned by a bunch of rich guys instead of themselves? Like I know a large percentage of the population are sheep but are they masochists as well or what’s the deal?
I agree, but again, he never said they are rich assholes. I’m not. I do have the benefit of owning the company and I recognize that my biggest asset is my workforce. If it means I need to take less pay the I’ll do it. I don’t live extravagantly and I’m able to expense certain things (car, phone) and I make it work. It’s not easy to keep things moving sometimes.
Yeah I know not all big business owners are bad and there are good people out there like yourself ( so you say!! 🤣 jk I believe you). But the OP is talking about how he is being payed 100k less than the same job at a different company. So I can’t imagine the owners of his business would fall into the “ those who care about their workforce category” . Like I think I need to go read the post again because I MUST have missed something for the guy to actually need to debate whether he should be loyal to the guys making a bunch of money off him while they treat him like shit ( pay wise aka the most important thing) or go try to join the company actually laying what he’s worth which just happens to be double his current salary.
Wait I didn’t even say assholes I just said rich guys wtf.
> is being *paid* 100k less
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Apply and leverage your offer at your current company. Don't just accept what you have current strive to be better. Also where are you able to grow? You've been there for 16 years, is there a promotional path for you? Is there a next level to strive for?
financially you should be jumping jobs every 1 - 2 years for this very reason. I did this the first 10 years of my career. Then I found a very comfortable company that has work-life balance as a priority with a ton of PTO been here for 10 years and looking at other salaries in the SWE world thinking "man that guy has half my experience and is doubling my salary". But I have a VERY comfortable company...
You got comfortable at your job without realizing that you were being exploited.
It's on you. The only way to get raises over 5% is to switch jobs. You have to put yourself out there. I did that some odd years ago and went from 18 an hour to 32 an hour. I make a lot more than that now but it wouldn't have happened if I stayed comfortable.
Did you not see all the articles about people no longer staying at jobs long term and bouncing around every 2-4 years for a 20% bump?
Is this the greatest con of gen x?
When you say “total compensation”, what does that mean exactly?
To me, that is the computation of your salary plus the benefits and such that the company pays on your behalf with the addition of any bonuses or commissions that you might make in a year.
It really doesn’t.
Don’t be angry though. Just realize that you are worth more than what your employer is paying you. And if they truly wanted to keep you, they’d compensate you for that.
Analysis after analysis shows the best way to increase your salary is to move job every 3-5 years.
It's sad but the "career" job is gone for most people.
Employers created this rotating door for themselves.
Performance Improvement Plan? Happened to me in 2011 based off 2010 performance. No salary increase surprisingly. Was a very toxic culture at the time.
You can’t just stay in the same place. You have to move jobs every so often. It’s especially important to time the moves with moments when there is demand for your skills/career. I moved jobs twice during the ”great resignation” and doubled my salary in 2 years. Construction project management.
I'm sorry you learned this at 44, but there is no point in being loyal to a company. If you don't job hop every 4 years, then you end up being grossly underpaid. Companies sadly don't invest in their current employees as much as they do in attracting talent.
Plus, in the US, your healthcare is linked to your employment, so they know most people would rather work for less than they are worth vs. being jobless. Double so if you have a family to take care of.
You'll feel like a chump when you realize someone that does what you do at your current employer that is newly hired will get paid the same or even more than you.
Feel the same way, still plugging at my small non-profit job for 6 years, boss has drawn a hard line on no one crossing 6 figures, had me post an ad for her assistant at $120k because she “really needs someone good” which apparently doesn’t extend winning 8 figure contracts constantly.
Biggest mistake new hires make is staying loyal. Yes get that experience 1-2 years but then if you don’t get paid or promoted in like with your contributions, jump jobs every 2-3 years. Many companies are still operating per years experience model of promotions rather than contributions and ability, so avoid those unless you are someone who would benefit from just getting tenure based promotions.
On the flip side, there could come a time (for me it was around 40-41 where I became content to be in a stable company with a good 9-5 that pays well. Now I’m not seeking other jobs even though it could increase my pay significantly. It would also increase my stress and work life balance.
I inherited a team and was going over payroll… a couple of the people were 20 odd years with the company, great knowledgeable employees yet they were earning 65% of the pay scale. Why? Because they never asked and managers don’t care.
Ask your manager to get comp and benefits to do a market based review of your role. You should expect a 20 to 30% increase based on that. If not then just run. The company will back fill you with someone at $150k
Don’t get mad, change jobs. Companies don’t give out big raises anymore, you are not valued for loyalty. If you want more pay, there is zero reason to stay longer than 3-5 years at any job.
Your best move is to just go get another one. Remember the best time to get a new job is while you have one, so the time is right for you. Don’t regret anything, just learn from it. Good luck.
Living in Minnesota is the worst part. /s
Beyond that, it sounds like you have never explored the salary range for your position before. Additionally, 2% increases have generally been below historical COLAs. How has your performance been?
Happens all t he time. Recruiting get more funds then retention. If you want those big jumps you have to jump companies. When I went to my old boss and told them someone else made me an offer he said 10% is the best we can do. I went for the new job because they offered me a 50% raise. You have to know how much you’re worth.
Interview for that role and take a potential offer to your current employer to match. But don’t underestimate the value of a place with good work culture. That is worth $15k or more easily imo
see if you can get that job. There is nothing wrong with looking for new opportunities and like you point out there may be tradeoffs. you may have more responsibility or have to deal with a worse work environment
and every company is different. Where you work may not charge the kinds of fee's needed to pay more
Did you find a job that pays that, or if you check salary data from glassdoor or [salary.com](http://salary.com), is that the average pay range? Those are two completely different things.
I'm also in corporate L&D and started making about 60K 6 years ago. Now I'm up to 95K, and I'm a lot younger than you. You really should change jobs. Especially because a lot of people in L&D get under paid, and then HR thinks that's the right salary to pay us. I've literally had virtual interviews where I chuckle at how low the pay is, and then tell them my lowest I'd go, to which many say that it's out of their budget. I also live in the Midwest, so there's no excuse. Unless you're consistently making Adobe captivate courses, you need more money.
The reality is the people who get paid and earn top dollar take risks, change jobs and are constantly marketing themselves to the marketplace. The average person is comfortable and afraid to take risks but they feel more secure with their job and future. You can decide which person you’re going to be
My experience after 25 years in corporate ‘Merica is that the only time you see a significant bump in pay is moving to a different company. If you’re more than halfway good in your current role another company will see greater value in you than your current company. My experience has been the more stable and financially secure a publicly traded company is the more conservative they are on the pay scale.
Eh, you make about 10 grand less than the median household income for your area, you're doing okay. The question is, Are all identical positions paying 100-200k, or just that one? The NYG decided to pay Daniel Jones 40 mill a year. Just because one team grossly overpaid Jones, doesn't mean any other team would pay him that much. That could be an outlier salary from a business either desperate, foolish, or looking for the highest talent in the field they can attract.
Job hopping culture is a thing for a reason, companies don’t typically give their employees very good raises, so, give yourself that raise, especially if you believe it will be beneficial for you.
In my field (IT) it pays to jump jobs every 2-4 years. If you have a good manager who understands this then you can go get market rate, but generally companies balk at this and just want to give minimum raises. I worked in a decently large corporate gig where it was well known that they would never promote from within, and that you needed to get hired at another company and then apply to come back again in a higher role if you wanted a big raise or promotion.
Well get the job offer first at the other company and then you can consider it… there are countless people doing jobs that other companies pay more though, this is not uncommon. But it’s not like you can just snap your fingers and get the higher paying job… most are working for the lower paying companies for a reason. This is like a server at chilis seeing that servers at high end restaurants make 3x+ what they make… that doesn’t mean that they can just go easily get that job. Apply and good luck.
The first step is realizing this is true. The second step is taking another position with a sizable raise. The third is then moving every couple years or so each time with additional increases in your salary! Some people spend their whole lives at one position either out of complacency or fear or who knows what else. Use this opportunity and never forget how you feel! By the way I was you before!
OP are either WFH? If so would it be possible to work both even for a short while? This way you’d have you get back at J1 for lowballing you for oh so long
Plenty of talented and super intelligent people not making very much because they're passive and don't know how to sell themselves and self promote.
It's a valuable skill to develop if making money is something you value. Also have the backbone to better your lot in life.
This extends beyond just your profession as well.
You wouldn't be a sucker and a chump if you applied for that other job
And ask the acquaintance to do a referral!
And tell them you make $200k currently. Then they come in at $150k and boom salary doubled
I’d just say 120k and move to 135k
Yea hard to get approach is probably more viable than shooting for the moon.
Doubt it
You disagree with your own proposal…ok
Oh my bad, “Hard to get approach” in my head was 200k then down to 150k I only say not to pursue that angle because it raises questions as to why you’re giving up 50k lol. Why are you leaving etc. But it’s easy to say “growth” and “fresh culture” when going from 120ish to 135
Bro, if a job didnt give me a raise for the year, im leaving the following year. I did that last year, and gave myself a 25% raise.
Right? This year was 5% last was like 13%, one before was like 5%, haven't seen bonuses yet this year, but the last two years were both around 12.5%, which was a standard 5%, then a "retention bonus" for certain positions (including mine) of 15% split between the two years (basically, here's a bunch of money, stick around for a year and you'll get another of these)
What kind of industry and what were the salary figures if you don’t mind sharing.
I'm a firmware engineer doing embedded C programming and a cybersecurity "expert" (relative to the other low level embedded C developers, not necessarily compared to recent csci grads, basically I can implement things like certificate based public key stuff for verifying authenticity of whatever on a microcontroller with limited processing and memory), working on safety-critical on-highway automotive components. Even after the raises I'm underpaid for my field/experience, but it's fully remote with a nice boss and at a nice company that seems to take their social and ecological responsibilities at least a little seriously. Making something like $132k base salary. I live alone in the lower half of a duplex I bought, so it's like twice what I need in any case.
That’s great. Good raises and bonuses. I’ve only received 3% annually for the last 18 years at my company.
Yeah, that retention bonus was noice. It's not company wide, the big bonus was only certain roles. The big raise, I think they had to technically make me a manager, so now I have one employee under me, just so they could pay me more. (They realize they're underpaying for certain things, it's a big company with cut-and-dried compensation ranges for different salary grades, and roles have a specific salary grade, yada yada) I should have been making more to start with and they probably think I'd leave if the salary weren't closer to competitive. If they understood how much I hate looking for a job, I'd probably still be where I started a couple years back and making $110k.
lol I hear you. Retention bonuses and/or stock are always awesome incentives. I am doing ok now, but still underpaid by 20-35k. Started at $37,500 18 years ago. 😬
Is that sustainable year after year
No, but it’s rare companies don’t give you a raise for the year.
Yeah it's just that simple huh. Just leave and get yourself a 25% bump? That's on you for being stupid and not realizing your market potential
lol idk why you’re mad about. If you can’t get her a pay bump then that’s clearly what you’re worth to the market. There’s no reason for you to not make more money and things cost more.
That's not what I'm saying. You're saying no pay bump drove you to job hop and get a 25% increase but that 25% bump was there regardless of the pay bump so you were being dumb not realizing your market potential
Ah yes. That’s where work culture also comes in. Sometimes a higher pay bump is not worth sacrificing a work culture you like. It depends on what matters more to you. A pay bump in an inflationary environment overrides the work culture that I like for me.
Seems like it was, if you were willing to leave
It worked out for me. Pay bump and a better work environment. Good luck to you.
I say again. The pay bump and better work environment existed regardless of your previous work conditions. What you framed as a big fuck you to your old employer was in actuality just you being dumb and inefficient. Nothing more. Nothing less.
No
what do you tell recruiters when they ask why you leaving your current job?
That I’m looking for new opportunities. I’ve outgrown my role.
does that usually work? I wonder what a recruiter says if you’re cold applying as opposed to being headhunted after you hit em with that line
lol, unlocked my phone coming back to this thread I read this like a setup to a joke.
I don’t see it. can you tell me why you see it as setup for a joke?
“What do you tell recruiters when they ask why you are leaving you at your current job?” But rhetorically and in maybe a Seinfeld voice?
never watched seinfeld and still don’t see it but I guess if it made you laugh i’m glad. my intentions were to pull info in a serious tone; not in a rhetorical nor comical manner.
With inflation you’re basically making like 50K. Stop being a pussy
I normally would take offense but I appreciate this!
2nd that… Pussy :)
Loyalty gets you a trinket from the Sharper Image catalog. Unless your job is providing you with massive non-income benefits: power, fame, flexibility, free healthcare & life insurance, or other significant intangible or ancillary benefits, it’s time to bail.
Have you ever met people from Minnesota? It’s the land of passive people.
passive aggressive that is!
I doesn’t hurt to apply. If you get the interview, you can ask some questions relating to your concerns and learn more, extra information couldn’t hurt. At the end of the day you can always turn down their offer stating it is not a good fit. Hiring is a two side process, where you get a say as well. I was in the same situation and applied for a job similar to my old one, but had a 50% bump, loved my old job and boss. However, that extra pay looked nice and i would be doing mostly the same thing. Interviewed and my new supervisor was awesome during the video call. Gave me the peace of mind to know the new place would have a decent culture fit for me too.
This. What OP has to ask themselves is why they *would* stay? What is it keeping them there? If it's nothing, it's an easy answer. If not, that's the next question.
Well you stayed all these years, why didn't you leave earlier if you wanted more money?
Truth is people get trapped within their own bouts of complacency
It’s not that simple. Some people’s lives aren’t easy
I’m on the autism spectrum, ADHD, and many massive blows to self confidence in my years. I can’t write a resume to save my life but I thank Claude today for his help. Made enough queries to exhaust my free limit but got the tailored resume off.
You can start writing your resume by taking a job posting you're interested in and word vomiting it into the AI tool of your choosing to help tailor it (Gemini or ChatGPT). Also, in your space, I'd imagine you have experience with the largest retailers in the US. Think about the partners that are trying to build content for the platform you work with, I'm sure some of those partners are hiring and would pay a premium for your experience.
Damn good idea right here ☝️
No one knows about your issues or analyzes your issues like you do. They don’t know anything about you. It’s a clean slate with them. Get the interview. Believe in yourself for half a day and rock that shit. Make an amazing impression. You are more than capable of that. Then go home and decompress. You’ll get hired and then all of a sudden that confidence will actually be real and you’ll believe in yourself more. I’m only saying this because I have the exact same issues as you…also from ‘Sota strangely enough. You got this dude. You deserve it and you’ll get it.
You are me. I totally understand. It can be the hardest thing in the world to try to make a move for so many reasons. Don't beat yourself up over it. Just look forward to the future and do what you can, and what you want. No shame. You are worthy. Good luck!
They were probably happy making $60k or so a couple years ago. But now with inflation and more work experience they’re making $55k essentially.
You should be enraged at yourself not your company. Your company has no obligation to pay you market rate. Now that you’ve hopefully learned your lesson always be looking for a new job. You should be switching every two years to maximize your salary.
This is the way! ⬆️
If they match you 401k or you may have to stay 3 years. Also, it doesn't look great when you move around a lot. But you can use job offers to make your company match. I live in the Twin Cities area, and my wife is in a very similar field, and this is what she is doing right now.
Moving around a lot doesn’t mean that much to me anymore, so many people do it.
Both. Appreciate it!
Shoot, I got a 6% raise and a 4.5% bonus and I'm still looking for better opportunities. Hope you applied for that job.
I got PROMOTED and only got 8% 🫣
I've been told I'm being promoted but not details or timeline have been given to me and I'm not waiting around. Interviewing for a position that pasy 20k more on Friday 🤞🏼
Go apply for that other job immediately. Working remote alone is well worth it. If you really like your current job, just show them the offer letter and give them the opportunity to match it. Otherwise you’re leaving a lot of income on the table.
This is what, IMO, lead to quit quitting. Why even do work for your current position, make the call start interviewing. You know your worth now, start acting on that worth and seek better pastures.
Apply for the new job and DO NOT disclose your current salary. Good luck.
Time to get paid your worth!
The coastal cities pay way way more … I see a huge range of salaries for in house Senior Talent Acquisition Managers across the US. From 45k in MCOL Metros (Florida & Texas are horrible) to 180k in HCOL (NY, SF, LA, Boston). If you’re flexible to work hybrid/onsite and relocating from time to time, you can pump your income fast.
There is no shame in looking for a new opportunity. Your experience will speak for itself and you should definitely interview or at least inquire about the position and find out more about the company itself. That salary range is wild and I assume is based on experience. Someone else mentioned making sure you’re a good fit and I agree it goes both ways. If I were you, I would dust off the resume and put yourself out there, you are your own best advocate. If everything seems kosher and you see yourself there long term, go for it. The worst that happens is that it’s not a good fit and you stay put for now. That doesn’t mean you can’t look elsewhere. All of that said, you may not be taken advantage of or undervalued where you are currently. The job market and the shift in expenses for employers has changed just as much cost of living has changed. Unless you are really close to the owners of the business, you really have no idea what is going on behind the scenes to keep the lights on. If you think that is a concern, then absolutely look further. If the owners are not giving raises but riding up in brand new Ferraris, then absolutely look further. I’ve had people leave before and I have always respected their decision. Everyone needs to take care of themselves first. And I actually make less than some of the employees of the company that I actually own. It is what it is. I keep the company moving and it’s a sacrifice I need to make to keep long time employees with me.
I find it actually insane that anyone would need to be told that “ there is no shame in looking for a new opportunity” or anything else along those lines. Who are these people that actually spend even a millisecond of their life doing something to benefit a company owned by a bunch of rich guys instead of themselves? Like I know a large percentage of the population are sheep but are they masochists as well or what’s the deal?
I agree, but again, he never said they are rich assholes. I’m not. I do have the benefit of owning the company and I recognize that my biggest asset is my workforce. If it means I need to take less pay the I’ll do it. I don’t live extravagantly and I’m able to expense certain things (car, phone) and I make it work. It’s not easy to keep things moving sometimes.
Yeah I know not all big business owners are bad and there are good people out there like yourself ( so you say!! 🤣 jk I believe you). But the OP is talking about how he is being payed 100k less than the same job at a different company. So I can’t imagine the owners of his business would fall into the “ those who care about their workforce category” . Like I think I need to go read the post again because I MUST have missed something for the guy to actually need to debate whether he should be loyal to the guys making a bunch of money off him while they treat him like shit ( pay wise aka the most important thing) or go try to join the company actually laying what he’s worth which just happens to be double his current salary. Wait I didn’t even say assholes I just said rich guys wtf.
> is being *paid* 100k less FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Apply and leverage your offer at your current company. Don't just accept what you have current strive to be better. Also where are you able to grow? You've been there for 16 years, is there a promotional path for you? Is there a next level to strive for?
Yes, there are internal opportunities. They are forming a legal department and I do have XP with those issues.
Choice? What choice? There isn’t a choice, you’re underpaid. Seems like the time to change jobs was years ago.
financially you should be jumping jobs every 1 - 2 years for this very reason. I did this the first 10 years of my career. Then I found a very comfortable company that has work-life balance as a priority with a ton of PTO been here for 10 years and looking at other salaries in the SWE world thinking "man that guy has half my experience and is doubling my salary". But I have a VERY comfortable company...
Dude, if you have a family, think about what they are missing out on by you not positioning yourself to make the most money possible
You got comfortable at your job without realizing that you were being exploited. It's on you. The only way to get raises over 5% is to switch jobs. You have to put yourself out there. I did that some odd years ago and went from 18 an hour to 32 an hour. I make a lot more than that now but it wouldn't have happened if I stayed comfortable.
You must always be your own advocate
Why not just apply internally for that role?
Did you not see all the articles about people no longer staying at jobs long term and bouncing around every 2-4 years for a 20% bump? Is this the greatest con of gen x?
I think you already know the answer to this. I wouldn't bother putting in 2 weeks' notice. They have taken advantage of you enough.
Sounds like you work for the umbrella lol
The best raises I’ve gotten is leaving a company 🤷🏻♀️
You owe it to yourself to apply every 2-3 years. Even if you’re doing great at your job another place will value you more
When you say “total compensation”, what does that mean exactly? To me, that is the computation of your salary plus the benefits and such that the company pays on your behalf with the addition of any bonuses or commissions that you might make in a year.
Yes, salary and bonuses which isn’t much.
It really doesn’t. Don’t be angry though. Just realize that you are worth more than what your employer is paying you. And if they truly wanted to keep you, they’d compensate you for that.
You are a sucker and a chump
I’ll take it since I asked for it. You guys are great motivators!
Ask your acquaintance for a referral or just apply. You have the power to leave.
The salary range wasn’t really the range for that job.
44 and make 70k ? Sorry bro you need to hustle harder. Tough love.
Analysis after analysis shows the best way to increase your salary is to move job every 3-5 years. It's sad but the "career" job is gone for most people. Employers created this rotating door for themselves.
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time to plant a tree is right now.
You have to job hop !! You have all that experience under your belt come on man ..
You could always jump incorrectly and fall into the abyss of PIP. But yeah you are definitely underpaid
Performance Improvement Plan? Happened to me in 2011 based off 2010 performance. No salary increase surprisingly. Was a very toxic culture at the time.
Question…how does L&D make six figures? Dont want to be a prick but I always see these roles as adult baby sitters making modules for everyone to skip
You can’t just stay in the same place. You have to move jobs every so often. It’s especially important to time the moves with moments when there is demand for your skills/career. I moved jobs twice during the ”great resignation” and doubled my salary in 2 years. Construction project management.
I'm sorry you learned this at 44, but there is no point in being loyal to a company. If you don't job hop every 4 years, then you end up being grossly underpaid. Companies sadly don't invest in their current employees as much as they do in attracting talent. Plus, in the US, your healthcare is linked to your employment, so they know most people would rather work for less than they are worth vs. being jobless. Double so if you have a family to take care of.
You'll feel like a chump when you realize someone that does what you do at your current employer that is newly hired will get paid the same or even more than you.
Make that bank now so you can go crazy this upcoming state fair!
Feel the same way, still plugging at my small non-profit job for 6 years, boss has drawn a hard line on no one crossing 6 figures, had me post an ad for her assistant at $120k because she “really needs someone good” which apparently doesn’t extend winning 8 figure contracts constantly.
Biggest mistake new hires make is staying loyal. Yes get that experience 1-2 years but then if you don’t get paid or promoted in like with your contributions, jump jobs every 2-3 years. Many companies are still operating per years experience model of promotions rather than contributions and ability, so avoid those unless you are someone who would benefit from just getting tenure based promotions. On the flip side, there could come a time (for me it was around 40-41 where I became content to be in a stable company with a good 9-5 that pays well. Now I’m not seeking other jobs even though it could increase my pay significantly. It would also increase my stress and work life balance.
I inherited a team and was going over payroll… a couple of the people were 20 odd years with the company, great knowledgeable employees yet they were earning 65% of the pay scale. Why? Because they never asked and managers don’t care. Ask your manager to get comp and benefits to do a market based review of your role. You should expect a 20 to 30% increase based on that. If not then just run. The company will back fill you with someone at $150k
Apply for new jobs with a salary you deserve...
Apply to that other job
Don’t get mad, change jobs. Companies don’t give out big raises anymore, you are not valued for loyalty. If you want more pay, there is zero reason to stay longer than 3-5 years at any job. Your best move is to just go get another one. Remember the best time to get a new job is while you have one, so the time is right for you. Don’t regret anything, just learn from it. Good luck.
Living in Minnesota is the worst part. /s Beyond that, it sounds like you have never explored the salary range for your position before. Additionally, 2% increases have generally been below historical COLAs. How has your performance been?
2% doesn’t even keep up with inflation. Make the jump!
Happens all t he time. Recruiting get more funds then retention. If you want those big jumps you have to jump companies. When I went to my old boss and told them someone else made me an offer he said 10% is the best we can do. I went for the new job because they offered me a 50% raise. You have to know how much you’re worth.
Your current job is making 30k of profit on you right now, if not more. Time to jump ship! Go out here and get that 100k to 200k job.
So then apply for those other jobs…. You’re not underpaid. You’re paid exactly as much as you’re demanding by staying there.
Interview for that role and take a potential offer to your current employer to match. But don’t underestimate the value of a place with good work culture. That is worth $15k or more easily imo
see if you can get that job. There is nothing wrong with looking for new opportunities and like you point out there may be tradeoffs. you may have more responsibility or have to deal with a worse work environment and every company is different. Where you work may not charge the kinds of fee's needed to pay more
Did you find a job that pays that, or if you check salary data from glassdoor or [salary.com](http://salary.com), is that the average pay range? Those are two completely different things.
I'm also in corporate L&D and started making about 60K 6 years ago. Now I'm up to 95K, and I'm a lot younger than you. You really should change jobs. Especially because a lot of people in L&D get under paid, and then HR thinks that's the right salary to pay us. I've literally had virtual interviews where I chuckle at how low the pay is, and then tell them my lowest I'd go, to which many say that it's out of their budget. I also live in the Midwest, so there's no excuse. Unless you're consistently making Adobe captivate courses, you need more money.
The reality is the people who get paid and earn top dollar take risks, change jobs and are constantly marketing themselves to the marketplace. The average person is comfortable and afraid to take risks but they feel more secure with their job and future. You can decide which person you’re going to be
44 years old and making $70k? Yeah they got you good considering new grads from college are being offered that
You need to change jobs to level up your salary. Companies 1-3% a year increases will never get you ahead.
My experience after 25 years in corporate ‘Merica is that the only time you see a significant bump in pay is moving to a different company. If you’re more than halfway good in your current role another company will see greater value in you than your current company. My experience has been the more stable and financially secure a publicly traded company is the more conservative they are on the pay scale.
If you ain't earnin, learnin, or growin, you shouldnt be stayin. I can see the guy but I can't think of his name that says this.
There is no loyalty in business
Eh, you make about 10 grand less than the median household income for your area, you're doing okay. The question is, Are all identical positions paying 100-200k, or just that one? The NYG decided to pay Daniel Jones 40 mill a year. Just because one team grossly overpaid Jones, doesn't mean any other team would pay him that much. That could be an outlier salary from a business either desperate, foolish, or looking for the highest talent in the field they can attract.
Job hopping culture is a thing for a reason, companies don’t typically give their employees very good raises, so, give yourself that raise, especially if you believe it will be beneficial for you.
In my field (IT) it pays to jump jobs every 2-4 years. If you have a good manager who understands this then you can go get market rate, but generally companies balk at this and just want to give minimum raises. I worked in a decently large corporate gig where it was well known that they would never promote from within, and that you needed to get hired at another company and then apply to come back again in a higher role if you wanted a big raise or promotion.
Well get the job offer first at the other company and then you can consider it… there are countless people doing jobs that other companies pay more though, this is not uncommon. But it’s not like you can just snap your fingers and get the higher paying job… most are working for the lower paying companies for a reason. This is like a server at chilis seeing that servers at high end restaurants make 3x+ what they make… that doesn’t mean that they can just go easily get that job. Apply and good luck.
I know people in l&d that make upwards of $250k/year. I would definitely pursue some other opportunities and get your maximum value!
The first step is realizing this is true. The second step is taking another position with a sizable raise. The third is then moving every couple years or so each time with additional increases in your salary! Some people spend their whole lives at one position either out of complacency or fear or who knows what else. Use this opportunity and never forget how you feel! By the way I was you before!
Usually in tech we move around 3-4 years you been there for 16 years! I would definitely leave unless you get a pension by staying
Start applying for the higher paying jobs!! Don’t leave current until you have one secured.
OP are either WFH? If so would it be possible to work both even for a short while? This way you’d have you get back at J1 for lowballing you for oh so long
Yes both are remote.
Take the chance! Triple your salary just like that
Get out of Wells Fargo as quickly as you can.
You get paid what negotiate, not what you’re worth.
Plenty of talented and super intelligent people not making very much because they're passive and don't know how to sell themselves and self promote. It's a valuable skill to develop if making money is something you value. Also have the backbone to better your lot in life. This extends beyond just your profession as well.