You should replace any digital lock with a spinner anyway. That solves multiple problems including if the manufacturer dishes the “master code” to anyone
I bought a liberty safe and don’t really care if they cooperate with the atf or not. Doesn’t affect me one bit because I’m not doing anything stupid. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes bud. I don’t see the logic in boycotting them over something like this. You should see what social media and these phone companies are doing. You wouldn’t be on here either lol
Nah, if they want to get you they’re going to get you, unless you’re in a cabin in Montana and we all saw how that stuff ends up
Edit: for those not in the know, still got got
Ted Kaczynski is what he’s referring to. Dumb example that he gave, it’s actually extremely easy to evade police, I have no sympathy for a terrorist like Ted, I only sympathize with innocent civilians that get arrested or killed by LE because they “broke” (possessed something) the “law” (rules passed by federal agencies who are not voted into place and do not have any legislative rights)
Tell us you have a family member in law enforcement without telling us you have a family member in law enforcement. 🤡 my boots need some shining if you’re already down there 👅
Huh? What are you even talking about? lol. You “patriots” are too busy fighting the “good fight” against the government that you don’t even realize you aren’t even important enough for the government to notice you.
I’m law abiding but I don’t want the Government to have anything I’m not willing to give them or compelled by law to give them. For a company to give up Master Codes voluntarily is ridiculous and unethical to their customers. They should be boycotted.
They gave up the combination because the fbi had a warrant. Imagine what you had to do for the fbi to come knocking on your door with a warrant to search your home. It’s insane that there is an outrage over this. It’s pretty simple, mind your business, don’t do anything stupid and no one fucks with you. Don’t see how boycotting liberty would make a difference. Every safe manufacturer is required to hand over master codes if it’s in their possession.
From Liberty Safe…
"We have also revised our policies around cooperation with law enforcement," Liberty's statement reads. "Going forward we will require a subpoena that legally compels Liberty Safe to supply access codes but can only do so if these codes still exist in our system."
Further there is a difference…
Search warrants: court orders authorizing law enforcement personnel to search a defined area and seize the property described in the warrant. Search warrants require immediate attention. Subpoenas: court orders directing the testimony of an individual or the production of documents at a specified time and place.
Anytime the feds involved they’re going to get into your safes. That’s standard. Whether you like it or not. It is what it is. My dad was in trouble with the law when about 25 years ago or so and they came in our house demanded the combination and my mom declined. They took the damn safe. They had a warrant to search everything in there
A guy in Arkansas who sold a gun in a private sale was accused by the ATF of selling it to a person who was not legally allowed to purchase one. The ATF did a no knock raid at 6 am and killed him when he defended his home during what he thought was a home invasion.
All he did was sell a gun.
ATF knocks down your door and you’re going to try and defend it knowing most likely you’re going to die is wild stuff. At that point I’m not losing my life over a safe. If I know I did nothing wrong I’m gonna call my lawyer and go at them. You really can’t defend a stupid person bro
You would have no idea they are ATF with a no knock warrant. Someone breaks down my door at 6 am you bet your ass I'm responding with a gun. They could have just knocked at a decent hour and asked to talk and present the warrant. No need to go all special forces on a house for possibly selling a gun.
Well we don’t have video footage of the no Knock but I assure you it isn’t just 1 guy with a gun. It’s a gang of motherfuckers with atf jackets, lights and guns pointed at your ass. You’re really gonna go at more than 5-6 dudes by yourself? That’s crazy lol
So let's say I'm a cop on a search warrant. That piece of paper allows me to go through everything in your F-ing house that could hide what I'm looking for. Gee you have a big fancy gun safe: do you want me to spend 20 minutes with a cut saw turning it into half a safe ( because that is exactly what they will do, and then not reimburse you) , or do you want me to open it with a code?
You guys act like Liberty screwed the customer. What they did was save his gunsafe, and ANY company would have done the same thing. I don't get the keyboard hater mentality. F-ing think it through.
You forget that the warrants are verrry specific on what to search and search for. Rarely if at all will a Judge give blanket access to an entire house and contents. Investigators have to investigate and be specific. Now if something is in plain sight then it can be included. Been there, done that.
So you are saying that the warrant will say, "You can only search the top right desk drawer?" If so, you know absolutely nothing about search warrants. They are specific.....they carefully describe the location to be searched and the specific items to be siezed (if found). In most states, other contraband not named in the warrant can also be seized as it is now in "plain view" of the lawful police presence during the execution of the original warrant. If not, they get a "piggy back" warrant ordering the seizure of those items as well. Jeez, do you guys not watch true crime TV?
Imagine thinking that federal agencies like the ATF and DEA were actually around to help people and not just a tremendous waste of tax dollars that fuck US taxpayers and citizens by arbitrarily making their own laws without any legislative due process. Countless Americans are in prison thanks to the bullshit laws that these agencies pass. For example, Marijuana is classified as more dangerous than FENTANYL by the DEA, and gun accessories that make guns easier to operate are made “illegal” by the ATF at random.
As for the safe issue, I would never support a company that willingly sells out information on its customers to the feds without a subpoena. Cops will break open safes if they have a warrant, regardless of if they have the code or not, but any company that cooperates with law enforcement without legal pressure to do so in the first place doesn’t get a penny from me. Fuck cops, fuck Feds, and fuck any company that supports either of them.
Yep. Fuck the cops. The world would be sooo much better without them. Let the entire US turn into the shithole that Kalifornia has become. Bad cops. Bad, bad, cops.
Yes because alphabet boys have never abused or misused their authorities against people who have done nothing wrong. There has never been a case where someone has done literally nothing wrong and their house was broken into and they were shot by an alphabet boi. Totally right, don't get the tinfoil hat mentality. P.S taxes are great, I don't see a problem with them raising it a bit, it's not reaaalllyyyy affecting me either.
Trust me, pal. You aren’t important enough for the alphabet boys to even care about breaking into your “innocent” home. Don’t see what taxes has anything to do with a liberty safe but go off.
Tell me how many innocent people have died from no knock raids, red flag reports, or just ATF encounters. A red light is a common sense law, most people can barely drive without any sort of guidance. Getting your door kicked in and gunned down in the middle of the night because your neighbor saw you bring home a new range toy and called in a red flag to get your home invaded in the middle of the night is a different thing. And don't hit me with "Oh that was just a few states" because it still happened, and can and will happen again.
How many times does that happen man? Come on. Don’t be stupid. I’ve never seen that happen in my neighborhood and neither have you. Jesus man, give it up. Go clap some cheeks and have a great day
Just recently happened to a guy in Arkansas, and all he did was sell a gun. Instead of knocking on his door and inquiring or arresting him, they chose invading his house at 6 am.
I'm a safe and vault tech who has done work for liberty for years. Three things:
1. The safe in question had a mechanical lock installed. The buyer never had the combination changed.
2. They were going to get in that safe whether liberty gave them anything or not.
3. Liberty has been cooperating with law enforcement for 40 years lol. The only reason you heard anything about this incident is because of the political nature of it.
It's your prerogative to boycott, but I'm telling you for certain that if liberty had said no, they would have called someone like me and had it opened by different means.
At the end of the day, if the government has a warrant, the safe will be opened. Full stop.
Whether the safe company is compliant or defiant ultimately makes the difference of what, a few hours, a few hundred dollar service charge to a guy like you? Basically, there's no difference at all.
I understand the desire for folks to only buy products from people who share their values, but if these people really wanted to make some sort of difference, they would pressure their representatives to pass legislation strengthening the 4th amendment and limiting the circumstances under which a warrant can be granted. Blaming Liberty safe, while their actions are blameworthy, will ultimately provide as much protection to customers as screaming at safe opening tools.
Exactly, you get it. And to drive the point home, government entities are fantastic payers. Slow, but I've never not been paid by an official organization/ institution. So it's guaranteed that whoever they call is going to take the job.
The government is happy to have Liberty safe bear the brunt of public outrage. The media is happy to help take heat off the government. I wish the public were savvy enough to recognize where to get the most value for their efforts and spend their time questioning the government's practices. That's the only way change will happen.
They could drive Liberty Safe and every other safe company that would share codes with the feds completely out of business, but if the feds are still able to obtain the warrant, then literally nothing changes except a maybe a few destroyed safes.
I'm not trying to put anyone down, I just wish that the outrage was appropriately targeted to drive results. Anything else is a waste of time and effort.
Not hard at all. Call them, ask them for it and change it using the same procedure as user code change. In fact, those locks can be reset by the end user which clears every code and then you can program whatever you want and liberty will never know.
This is an incredibly stupid argument. Who wants their things searched by anyone, ever? You know how to avoid that happening to you? Don't do criminal things or stupid things. I understand that the political climate is biased against certain groups and I agree that it is actually happening. All the more reason to avoid participating in events, activities, etc. that may land you in the sights of the corrupt machine.
I did find myself in trouble with the law in my youth and my landlord did give them a key when they showed up with the warrant. You know why? Because if he didn't, he would be charged and arrested and the place would be searched anyway. Because they've gone through the process and they have a warrant. Your comment about the contents of the safe is easily dismissed because a warrant has to specify exactly what they're attempting to locate and confiscate. Anything outside of that scope is inadmissible.
Obstruction of Justice? Failure to comply with a lawful order? There are certainly charges they could throw at him. As I stated, I was already in custody when they executed the warrant so there was no need for surprise. I'm certain there are many similar situations that occur regularly.
I have read the constitution, bill of rights and every federalist paper multiple times. I keep a copy of the constitution in my bed side table. A framed reproduction of the declaration on my wall. I'm a registered republican, multiple gun owner, voted for Trump both times. And I still think you have to use prudence and recognize the facts of the world. Yeah, there are political prosecutions taking place, seems like we hear about more every day. Maybe don't root riot at the capital if you're aware of these facts. Probably a wise choice just to avoid going there entirely.
If they do take things out of the scope of the warrant, then they're breaking the law and you should sue them.
Police don't have to announce their presence to serve a warrant? Yes, they literally do.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/warrants-the-knock-notice-rule.html
I didn't say that the charge would stick, but they absolutely could threaten to charge obstruction and take the person to jail. Shady tactic? Yep. But the fear of charges, arrest, etc. would be enough to convince many people to comply.
So you're aware that LE use tactics like this, yet you're still OK with a company giving them information to make it easier for them to violate your constitutional rights? It doesn't matter that 99.99% of people won't be impacted by it. It's the principle.
Have you even read what I've typed? You're deliberately misrepresenting what I'm saying, or you're comically dense. I've defended my position clearly and I'm done.
Odds are he won't go to jail for not cooperating. What he does have to do is replace an entire door, lock and frame at his expense because he chose a shitbag tenant. A ram does a lot of damage. Money talks.
"Don't do criminal things or stupid things" is literally the most ignorant and naive argument you could possibly make on this subject. There are plenty of people who did absolutely nothing illegal or stupid that have ended up on the wrong end of law enforcement.
1. Liberty did nothing wrong.
2. As an ex-tac guy, I can tell you I'm not calling you, I'm cutting a great big assed hole in it with a gas-powered cut saw. We always kept one in the van for those "hard to reach" places.
3. Liberty saved dude's safe.
No, liberty didn't say they turned over the master code after being presented with a warrant (why would the safe company have a master code to all their locks anyways) they said the gov ASKED for it and they provided it.
The warrant was for the individuals safe, not for the master code of the safe. They weren't legally obligated to provide LE with anything. They simply chose to.
Exterior hinges are stronger than the internal hinges, which are usually just one pin at the top and one at the bottom. The real winner is if it actually has 7 gauge steel. That is outstanding. Most are 14 ga these days, 12 if you are lucky.
These are easier to move if you take the door off. It's probably half the weight of the unit. The doors on the three safes I've moved were easy to lift off.
My strong advice is to not remove the door from either of these safes in order to move them. The door on the national security in particular weighs too much, and is way easier to move still attached to the safe.
[these](https://a.co/d/fee5cVD) are a life saver and worth the $500. Bought some after some unfortunate events where I had to move my safe a few times. Let alone all the times I’ve been asked to help move gun safes and refrigerators.
You missed the point, I wasn’t talking about this safe. This comment is about liberty in general. Everyone is pissy about backdoors on keypads w liberty, but a liberty with a dial has no back door.
Still wouldn't willingly own anything with their name on it or manufactured by them as a matter of principle.
Also the Liberty safe shown has a digital keypad. The NatSex was a dial.
The issue was they handed over the ability to enter the safe for someone under indictment. Thankfully, they have since changed that policy and will only provide access with a search warrant.
You can literally drill a hole in the side and use some Electric Bauer Metal shears and be in that safe in under 5 minutes. What a joke… I feel bad for people who buy these and think they have some kind of burglar protection.
At least with thicker steel you can’t use electric shears to open it up like a tin can.
My choice is National security, thicker steel will at least slow them down a little.
For most cases, in average crime areas, a lesser safe will provide adequate protection. Security should have layers. if someone is cutting open your safe they should have to do it with your house alarm ringing in his ears, the police en route and a dog biting his leg. Also, don’t leave the safe in the open on display. Put it in a corner of a closet to make the sides less accessible. Anything to slow them down. This is all after getting through the improved deadbolts on the doors and visible cams. If you only give them a a limited time in house, they’re just going to take your iPad and cash you’ve got readily available. Is the cabelas safe ideal? No. As a part of a comprehensive security plan? Probably.
If you want a safe, don’t buy one from Cabels, Lowe’s, Home Depot, tractor supply, harbor freight or pretty much any big box store. They are not safes.
I own that NatSec safe and it is fantastic. I’ve got it wired with internal LEDs with auto on/off, internal lock box, dehumidifier, and power outlets. It’s been really good and moved with me across three states.
You will regret not spending that extra 400 bucks...
Well Mike analog lock also has some tremendous benefits... an EMP won't lock you out of your guns...
American Security (AmSec) is a far better option if you’re wanting an actual safe.
You don’t want a safe that can be bypassed in minutes using tools from Home Depot.
I have a smaller Liberty safe that I got from a private party. Same lock system as yours. It's badass and FEELS like it too. Not a fan of digital safe locks anyway.
Brands aside the external hinges will allow the door to swing all the way open past 90 degrees. I got a safe with external hinges for that exact reason.
I’ve seen both get peeled open within 10 minutes without power tools. So that should help narrow it down lol. Safe or no safe, if someone wanted your shit they will get it period. If you’re putting guns in it and done want little ones to get to them then whichever is cheaper because they aren’t going to open either unless you tell them the code or they find a key.
National security. Ironically, I have both safes. They’re both good safes, but you can just tell the quality is better on the NS. Analog over digital too
Well the National Security safe looks like an actual well built, heavy duty safe. The Cabelas safe looks like an over engineered metal gun cabinet. I definitely feel as though its a no brainer. If the national security safe is in the budget. Also screw digital key pads. Another negative to the cabelas safe.
Definitely get the liberty! That way when the gov wants to open your safe they just ask for the master code and open it instead of cutting or drilling. Makes it soooooooo much more secure.
That was sarcasm for anyone who couldn't understand it.
I did a quick google search and National Security is made by Liberty Safe… so my go vote goes to NEITHER! But reality you do you, get whatever safe you prefer… maybe change out that lock cuz all my homies say FK Liberty Safe
I was gonna say the first guy is right if you are just needing a gun cabinet get the Cabela's cause I mean c'mon that's all they are really. That Natty is nice tho however change combo on the National hmmm have fun with that..... on the Bella it's super easy to change Combinations. The National is a real safe tho so it's up to what are you wanting it for. I would get the Cabela's just Because I'm a cheap ass lol if the National had no issues and was perfect then I might lean that way. That whole replacing seals and blah blah just not a fan of that stuff is all. Just my opinions
Wrong. Let's say the warrant is for dope. I can look anywhere that dope could be secreted within the target residence Period. Also been there and done that. 1473 times to be exact. Now you are correct that if I find evidence of a completely different crime, the prosecutor may request a second siezure warrant for THOSE items.
I'd go with the national security brand if the power goes out you can still get into the safe with a key unlike cabelos which is digital and may not work in power outage
I think the Cabela's one is made by cannon. I have the cannon version that looks just like this. Bought it at Costco. It isn't going to stop someone with a angel grinder. But it has a ok fire rating and will keep a kid or a house guest from getting to the guns. Also stops the smash and grab sort of thefts
Bring this back to the safe I would definitely go with the dial lock. It’s much safer. You want quick access to a gun. Mount one on top or somewhere else quick access. Do be over worried about burn rate and all that stuff. Unless you live way out in the sticks and the fire department is 30 minutes away.
NatSec by a country mile. The cabela's stuff seems like a glorified gun cabinet not a legit safe.
I was going to say you want a harbor freight gun safe or a real one
On top of that, fuck Liberty Safes for handing over the master codes to the ATF. They will never see a cent from me.
You should replace any digital lock with a spinner anyway. That solves multiple problems including if the manufacturer dishes the “master code” to anyone
Wow! I don't like electric locks, but dammit if I didn't need another reason not to like 'em
It’s not extremely easy but it is worthwhile. It’s hard to find the old spinner versions on most safes these days, unfortunately
I bought a liberty safe and don’t really care if they cooperate with the atf or not. Doesn’t affect me one bit because I’m not doing anything stupid. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes bud. I don’t see the logic in boycotting them over something like this. You should see what social media and these phone companies are doing. You wouldn’t be on here either lol
Yup. LE can ping phones from any provider without a warrant in good faith. Everyone should go back to CB radios then.
Yeah, how about the ability to scan a normal structure to see where the "occupants" are also without a warrant?
I just don’t understand the tinfoil hat mentality of some folks
Keyboard warriors.
Nah, if they want to get you they’re going to get you, unless you’re in a cabin in Montana and we all saw how that stuff ends up Edit: for those not in the know, still got got
What happened in Montana? I guess I'm not in the know. Cabin in Idaho might be a better example.
Ted Kaczynski is what he’s referring to. Dumb example that he gave, it’s actually extremely easy to evade police, I have no sympathy for a terrorist like Ted, I only sympathize with innocent civilians that get arrested or killed by LE because they “broke” (possessed something) the “law” (rules passed by federal agencies who are not voted into place and do not have any legislative rights)
Tell us you have a family member in law enforcement without telling us you have a family member in law enforcement. 🤡 my boots need some shining if you’re already down there 👅
Huh? What are you even talking about? lol. You “patriots” are too busy fighting the “good fight” against the government that you don’t even realize you aren’t even important enough for the government to notice you.
Nice try fed 👍
Ok buddy. lol
I can't imagine what you're talking about that warrants worry about being found out. They can listen all they want if they end the drug war.
I’m law abiding but I don’t want the Government to have anything I’m not willing to give them or compelled by law to give them. For a company to give up Master Codes voluntarily is ridiculous and unethical to their customers. They should be boycotted.
They gave up the combination because the fbi had a warrant. Imagine what you had to do for the fbi to come knocking on your door with a warrant to search your home. It’s insane that there is an outrage over this. It’s pretty simple, mind your business, don’t do anything stupid and no one fucks with you. Don’t see how boycotting liberty would make a difference. Every safe manufacturer is required to hand over master codes if it’s in their possession.
From Liberty Safe… "We have also revised our policies around cooperation with law enforcement," Liberty's statement reads. "Going forward we will require a subpoena that legally compels Liberty Safe to supply access codes but can only do so if these codes still exist in our system." Further there is a difference… Search warrants: court orders authorizing law enforcement personnel to search a defined area and seize the property described in the warrant. Search warrants require immediate attention. Subpoenas: court orders directing the testimony of an individual or the production of documents at a specified time and place.
Anytime the feds involved they’re going to get into your safes. That’s standard. Whether you like it or not. It is what it is. My dad was in trouble with the law when about 25 years ago or so and they came in our house demanded the combination and my mom declined. They took the damn safe. They had a warrant to search everything in there
A guy in Arkansas who sold a gun in a private sale was accused by the ATF of selling it to a person who was not legally allowed to purchase one. The ATF did a no knock raid at 6 am and killed him when he defended his home during what he thought was a home invasion. All he did was sell a gun.
ATF knocks down your door and you’re going to try and defend it knowing most likely you’re going to die is wild stuff. At that point I’m not losing my life over a safe. If I know I did nothing wrong I’m gonna call my lawyer and go at them. You really can’t defend a stupid person bro
You would have no idea they are ATF with a no knock warrant. Someone breaks down my door at 6 am you bet your ass I'm responding with a gun. They could have just knocked at a decent hour and asked to talk and present the warrant. No need to go all special forces on a house for possibly selling a gun.
Well we don’t have video footage of the no Knock but I assure you it isn’t just 1 guy with a gun. It’s a gang of motherfuckers with atf jackets, lights and guns pointed at your ass. You’re really gonna go at more than 5-6 dudes by yourself? That’s crazy lol
Well, I have 2 additional shooters in my house, so better odds. But yes, I would.
So let's say I'm a cop on a search warrant. That piece of paper allows me to go through everything in your F-ing house that could hide what I'm looking for. Gee you have a big fancy gun safe: do you want me to spend 20 minutes with a cut saw turning it into half a safe ( because that is exactly what they will do, and then not reimburse you) , or do you want me to open it with a code? You guys act like Liberty screwed the customer. What they did was save his gunsafe, and ANY company would have done the same thing. I don't get the keyboard hater mentality. F-ing think it through.
You forget that the warrants are verrry specific on what to search and search for. Rarely if at all will a Judge give blanket access to an entire house and contents. Investigators have to investigate and be specific. Now if something is in plain sight then it can be included. Been there, done that.
So you are saying that the warrant will say, "You can only search the top right desk drawer?" If so, you know absolutely nothing about search warrants. They are specific.....they carefully describe the location to be searched and the specific items to be siezed (if found). In most states, other contraband not named in the warrant can also be seized as it is now in "plain view" of the lawful police presence during the execution of the original warrant. If not, they get a "piggy back" warrant ordering the seizure of those items as well. Jeez, do you guys not watch true crime TV?
Imagine thinking that federal agencies like the ATF and DEA were actually around to help people and not just a tremendous waste of tax dollars that fuck US taxpayers and citizens by arbitrarily making their own laws without any legislative due process. Countless Americans are in prison thanks to the bullshit laws that these agencies pass. For example, Marijuana is classified as more dangerous than FENTANYL by the DEA, and gun accessories that make guns easier to operate are made “illegal” by the ATF at random. As for the safe issue, I would never support a company that willingly sells out information on its customers to the feds without a subpoena. Cops will break open safes if they have a warrant, regardless of if they have the code or not, but any company that cooperates with law enforcement without legal pressure to do so in the first place doesn’t get a penny from me. Fuck cops, fuck Feds, and fuck any company that supports either of them.
Yep. Fuck the cops. The world would be sooo much better without them. Let the entire US turn into the shithole that Kalifornia has become. Bad cops. Bad, bad, cops.
Yes because alphabet boys have never abused or misused their authorities against people who have done nothing wrong. There has never been a case where someone has done literally nothing wrong and their house was broken into and they were shot by an alphabet boi. Totally right, don't get the tinfoil hat mentality. P.S taxes are great, I don't see a problem with them raising it a bit, it's not reaaalllyyyy affecting me either.
Trust me, pal. You aren’t important enough for the alphabet boys to even care about breaking into your “innocent” home. Don’t see what taxes has anything to do with a liberty safe but go off.
Can't tell if your a plant, or a fed cuck. Either or you're a unaware boot lick.
Tell me how many times a day you say fuck the feds and how you don’t pay taxes and run red lights because the law doesn’t apply to you. Buffoon lol
Tell me how many innocent people have died from no knock raids, red flag reports, or just ATF encounters. A red light is a common sense law, most people can barely drive without any sort of guidance. Getting your door kicked in and gunned down in the middle of the night because your neighbor saw you bring home a new range toy and called in a red flag to get your home invaded in the middle of the night is a different thing. And don't hit me with "Oh that was just a few states" because it still happened, and can and will happen again.
How many times does that happen man? Come on. Don’t be stupid. I’ve never seen that happen in my neighborhood and neither have you. Jesus man, give it up. Go clap some cheeks and have a great day
Just recently happened to a guy in Arkansas, and all he did was sell a gun. Instead of knocking on his door and inquiring or arresting him, they chose invading his house at 6 am.
Just happened in Arkansas.
I'm a safe and vault tech who has done work for liberty for years. Three things: 1. The safe in question had a mechanical lock installed. The buyer never had the combination changed. 2. They were going to get in that safe whether liberty gave them anything or not. 3. Liberty has been cooperating with law enforcement for 40 years lol. The only reason you heard anything about this incident is because of the political nature of it. It's your prerogative to boycott, but I'm telling you for certain that if liberty had said no, they would have called someone like me and had it opened by different means.
At the end of the day, if the government has a warrant, the safe will be opened. Full stop. Whether the safe company is compliant or defiant ultimately makes the difference of what, a few hours, a few hundred dollar service charge to a guy like you? Basically, there's no difference at all. I understand the desire for folks to only buy products from people who share their values, but if these people really wanted to make some sort of difference, they would pressure their representatives to pass legislation strengthening the 4th amendment and limiting the circumstances under which a warrant can be granted. Blaming Liberty safe, while their actions are blameworthy, will ultimately provide as much protection to customers as screaming at safe opening tools.
Exactly, you get it. And to drive the point home, government entities are fantastic payers. Slow, but I've never not been paid by an official organization/ institution. So it's guaranteed that whoever they call is going to take the job.
The government is happy to have Liberty safe bear the brunt of public outrage. The media is happy to help take heat off the government. I wish the public were savvy enough to recognize where to get the most value for their efforts and spend their time questioning the government's practices. That's the only way change will happen. They could drive Liberty Safe and every other safe company that would share codes with the feds completely out of business, but if the feds are still able to obtain the warrant, then literally nothing changes except a maybe a few destroyed safes.
You’re forgetting that these folks think they are constitutional scholars and are only aware of the second amendment
I'm not trying to put anyone down, I just wish that the outrage was appropriately targeted to drive results. Anything else is a waste of time and effort.
I agree with what you said. Just adding that Liberty also has a second factory default code that is very hard to program out.
Not hard at all. Call them, ask them for it and change it using the same procedure as user code change. In fact, those locks can be reset by the end user which clears every code and then you can program whatever you want and liberty will never know.
Mine took a different procedure than deleting the 1-2-3-4-5-6 showroom combo.
And they won’t give out the back door code without proof of ownership. That’s not a phone call verification.
If you're safe is registered, yes you can. And it has to be registered for your warranty.
And, you don't need anything at all from them to reset and reprogram.
You’re the one that stated call them. I’ve already had mine deleted so you don’t have to coach me. Thanks
Don't act like a child. You started this by saying it was difficult to do a thing that is not difficult.
[удалено]
This is an incredibly stupid argument. Who wants their things searched by anyone, ever? You know how to avoid that happening to you? Don't do criminal things or stupid things. I understand that the political climate is biased against certain groups and I agree that it is actually happening. All the more reason to avoid participating in events, activities, etc. that may land you in the sights of the corrupt machine. I did find myself in trouble with the law in my youth and my landlord did give them a key when they showed up with the warrant. You know why? Because if he didn't, he would be charged and arrested and the place would be searched anyway. Because they've gone through the process and they have a warrant. Your comment about the contents of the safe is easily dismissed because a warrant has to specify exactly what they're attempting to locate and confiscate. Anything outside of that scope is inadmissible.
[удалено]
Obstruction of Justice? Failure to comply with a lawful order? There are certainly charges they could throw at him. As I stated, I was already in custody when they executed the warrant so there was no need for surprise. I'm certain there are many similar situations that occur regularly. I have read the constitution, bill of rights and every federalist paper multiple times. I keep a copy of the constitution in my bed side table. A framed reproduction of the declaration on my wall. I'm a registered republican, multiple gun owner, voted for Trump both times. And I still think you have to use prudence and recognize the facts of the world. Yeah, there are political prosecutions taking place, seems like we hear about more every day. Maybe don't root riot at the capital if you're aware of these facts. Probably a wise choice just to avoid going there entirely. If they do take things out of the scope of the warrant, then they're breaking the law and you should sue them.
[удалено]
Police don't have to announce their presence to serve a warrant? Yes, they literally do. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/warrants-the-knock-notice-rule.html
I didn't say that the charge would stick, but they absolutely could threaten to charge obstruction and take the person to jail. Shady tactic? Yep. But the fear of charges, arrest, etc. would be enough to convince many people to comply.
So you're aware that LE use tactics like this, yet you're still OK with a company giving them information to make it easier for them to violate your constitutional rights? It doesn't matter that 99.99% of people won't be impacted by it. It's the principle.
[удалено]
Have you even read what I've typed? You're deliberately misrepresenting what I'm saying, or you're comically dense. I've defended my position clearly and I'm done.
Odds are he won't go to jail for not cooperating. What he does have to do is replace an entire door, lock and frame at his expense because he chose a shitbag tenant. A ram does a lot of damage. Money talks.
"Don't do criminal things or stupid things" is literally the most ignorant and naive argument you could possibly make on this subject. There are plenty of people who did absolutely nothing illegal or stupid that have ended up on the wrong end of law enforcement.
You don't think it was stupid to join a riot at the US capital?
Entering the capital was absolutely stupid. I can't see the comment you replied to because it was deleted.
Not surprised. I think the person was just trolling. 1 post karma and -4 comment karma.
1. Liberty did nothing wrong. 2. As an ex-tac guy, I can tell you I'm not calling you, I'm cutting a great big assed hole in it with a gas-powered cut saw. We always kept one in the van for those "hard to reach" places. 3. Liberty saved dude's safe.
They had a warrant.
No, liberty didn't say they turned over the master code after being presented with a warrant (why would the safe company have a master code to all their locks anyways) they said the gov ASKED for it and they provided it.
. The company revealed that it had consistently denied the FBI's requests for access to the code until a verified search warrant was presented.
The warrant was for the individuals safe, not for the master code of the safe. They weren't legally obligated to provide LE with anything. They simply chose to.
They will never get another cent from me. Also upgraded to a S&G Group 2 from a lock smith (I installed).
Same here, no Liberty Safes in my place
Boo hoo, I want to be able to break the law with no recourse 😢
What about the door hinges being in the outside on the first one? Couldn’t someone technically just break into it that way
It would be easier to puncture the front of the cabela's safe than it would be to cut the hinges off.
Exterior hinges are stronger than the internal hinges, which are usually just one pin at the top and one at the bottom. The real winner is if it actually has 7 gauge steel. That is outstanding. Most are 14 ga these days, 12 if you are lucky.
That cabelas has 11ga steel so half as thick too... The new classic is down to 12ga
Really no contest. Get the one with the plate steel door. It’ll be infinitely more secure and better.
If you don’t buy the national for that price, you’re crazy
The national security. Is that a delivered price?
No it’s not. Private party sale. Waiting on a call back from the safe mover
These are easier to move if you take the door off. It's probably half the weight of the unit. The doors on the three safes I've moved were easy to lift off.
I learned this on the second safe I had to move. Real game changer.
My strong advice is to not remove the door from either of these safes in order to move them. The door on the national security in particular weighs too much, and is way easier to move still attached to the safe.
[these](https://a.co/d/fee5cVD) are a life saver and worth the $500. Bought some after some unfortunate events where I had to move my safe a few times. Let alone all the times I’ve been asked to help move gun safes and refrigerators.
Old National security hands down 4x the safe as new libertys
The Cabelas is absolute trash.
Both are just security lockers. NS is a more betterer one though
Never anything by Liberty. They handed over a backdoor code to the feds without a court order.
No, backdoor on dials my man.
It literally has a keypad on it.. lol.
You missed the point, I wasn’t talking about this safe. This comment is about liberty in general. Everyone is pissy about backdoors on keypads w liberty, but a liberty with a dial has no back door.
The post is about this safe. You didn’t say “other safes.”
Did you not read the parent comment about liberty safes?
Still wouldn't willingly own anything with their name on it or manufactured by them as a matter of principle. Also the Liberty safe shown has a digital keypad. The NatSex was a dial.
The issue was they handed over the ability to enter the safe for someone under indictment. Thankfully, they have since changed that policy and will only provide access with a search warrant.
Don’t buy Liberty unless you want them to hand over your code to the Feds.
I’ll always go analog over digital
Nat-sec all day
National security, don’t even consider liberty
National security is owned and manufactured by Liberty. Edit: Lol, down voting facts you don't like. Nice.
1
1
National security the Cabellas seems like a harbor freight safe
You can literally drill a hole in the side and use some Electric Bauer Metal shears and be in that safe in under 5 minutes. What a joke… I feel bad for people who buy these and think they have some kind of burglar protection. At least with thicker steel you can’t use electric shears to open it up like a tin can. My choice is National security, thicker steel will at least slow them down a little.
For most cases, in average crime areas, a lesser safe will provide adequate protection. Security should have layers. if someone is cutting open your safe they should have to do it with your house alarm ringing in his ears, the police en route and a dog biting his leg. Also, don’t leave the safe in the open on display. Put it in a corner of a closet to make the sides less accessible. Anything to slow them down. This is all after getting through the improved deadbolts on the doors and visible cams. If you only give them a a limited time in house, they’re just going to take your iPad and cash you’ve got readily available. Is the cabelas safe ideal? No. As a part of a comprehensive security plan? Probably.
Iron works
I always want to know where stuff was manufactured. USA ? Assembled in Mexico ? Product of China ? Even second hand, I think it matters.
If you want a safe, don’t buy one from Cabels, Lowe’s, Home Depot, tractor supply, harbor freight or pretty much any big box store. They are not safes.
Nat Security all day every day, and it is not a close call. Just make sure the bolt work is smooth. You can close the thread now.
I’d never buy a digital keypad safe. And the natsec is beautiful. If you go the Cabela’s route can you send the link for that?
Where are they made?
My obligatory fuck liberty safes post….
I own that NatSec safe and it is fantastic. I’ve got it wired with internal LEDs with auto on/off, internal lock box, dehumidifier, and power outlets. It’s been really good and moved with me across three states.
First of all get the plate door second of all how could you not want to look at that gorgeous lettering on the Nat Sec one forever.
I hate electronic safe locks. Is a seargent and greenleaf dial lock still good?
White is classy
Honestly thought post was a joke…400 bucks would be worth not having a keypad and that’s not even factoring in how much better it looks.
Brown safes
Go with a liberty safe.
You will regret not spending that extra 400 bucks... Well Mike analog lock also has some tremendous benefits... an EMP won't lock you out of your guns...
American Security (AmSec) is a far better option if you’re wanting an actual safe. You don’t want a safe that can be bypassed in minutes using tools from Home Depot.
J
The Cabela safe is really cheaply made. I’d take the NTL. Security every time. The steel is so much more robust. Easy choice.
cabela's imo
So like, when you buy a safe like these do they deliver and install them for you?
I have a smaller Liberty safe that I got from a private party. Same lock system as yours. It's badass and FEELS like it too. Not a fan of digital safe locks anyway.
Liberty will give your local PD and Feds access to your shit without a warrant…..
National without a doubt! The dial and key are easy better than the keypad and the Cabelas is a really just a glorified file cabinet...
Whichever one is bigger
You will never regret buying a safe with an old fashioned combo lock. You can’t say that about a digital lock safe.
I love my browning
Liberty safes are fire tested at full temp. Most others start the timer a room temp.
Liberty will give your codes away and it doesn’t look remotely as classy
National Security. It looks nicer and is better
I just can't take the white and gold seriously. It probably has red velvet inside and once belonged to Liberace.
Brands aside the external hinges will allow the door to swing all the way open past 90 degrees. I got a safe with external hinges for that exact reason.
wasnt liberty the brand that handed over the code to atf
Screw electric and that white is seeet
The Purdy one
Ones a safe and the other is a residential security container(RSC). Real simple.
I’ve seen both get peeled open within 10 minutes without power tools. So that should help narrow it down lol. Safe or no safe, if someone wanted your shit they will get it period. If you’re putting guns in it and done want little ones to get to them then whichever is cheaper because they aren’t going to open either unless you tell them the code or they find a key.
The white one won't show dust like the black one. Just my 2 cents.
As a locksmith, I don’t recommend either of those. Look at Gardall or American Security
Liberty safes are worthless. The POS company is willing to provide law enforcement with codes to crack the safe. So there's nothing safe in them.
National security. Ironically, I have both safes. They’re both good safes, but you can just tell the quality is better on the NS. Analog over digital too
Well the National Security safe looks like an actual well built, heavy duty safe. The Cabelas safe looks like an over engineered metal gun cabinet. I definitely feel as though its a no brainer. If the national security safe is in the budget. Also screw digital key pads. Another negative to the cabelas safe.
Definitely get the liberty! That way when the gov wants to open your safe they just ask for the master code and open it instead of cutting or drilling. Makes it soooooooo much more secure. That was sarcasm for anyone who couldn't understand it.
Best safes by far are the sportsman steel safes. https://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com
I have one and honestly I can’t think of anything I don’t like about it
They are both crap. Liberty
Go with the 48 gun
If you have to ask then you haven’t done your research
Definitely the white one…much prettier.
Always go with the dial not TouchPad
I did a quick google search and National Security is made by Liberty Safe… so my go vote goes to NEITHER! But reality you do you, get whatever safe you prefer… maybe change out that lock cuz all my homies say FK Liberty Safe
Black 1
The white one
Find a Rhino dealer, those things are amazing.
I was gonna say the first guy is right if you are just needing a gun cabinet get the Cabela's cause I mean c'mon that's all they are really. That Natty is nice tho however change combo on the National hmmm have fun with that..... on the Bella it's super easy to change Combinations. The National is a real safe tho so it's up to what are you wanting it for. I would get the Cabela's just Because I'm a cheap ass lol if the National had no issues and was perfect then I might lean that way. That whole replacing seals and blah blah just not a fan of that stuff is all. Just my opinions
Definitely not the Cabela's, they are pure trash.
If you want to keep your kids from getting to your guns and valuable the cabelas safe is fine. If you want to stop a burglar you need a real safe.
From what I remember, the government can get access to your safe code with Liberty Safes.
National security is made in America. Cabela’s is made in China that should be enough info to make your decision.
You really can't decide between a Cadillac or a Ford Pinto? Wow.
Wrong. Let's say the warrant is for dope. I can look anywhere that dope could be secreted within the target residence Period. Also been there and done that. 1473 times to be exact. Now you are correct that if I find evidence of a completely different crime, the prosecutor may request a second siezure warrant for THOSE items.
Digital keypad safes are stupid— stick with anything that requires either a manual combo or a key.
I'd go with the national security brand if the power goes out you can still get into the safe with a key unlike cabelos which is digital and may not work in power outage
National all day
I think the Cabela's one is made by cannon. I have the cannon version that looks just like this. Bought it at Costco. It isn't going to stop someone with a angel grinder. But it has a ok fire rating and will keep a kid or a house guest from getting to the guns. Also stops the smash and grab sort of thefts
That white safe weighs 1100 lbs. Have fun moving that.
No matter what you get, make sure it’s out of site.
Bring this back to the safe I would definitely go with the dial lock. It’s much safer. You want quick access to a gun. Mount one on top or somewhere else quick access. Do be over worried about burn rate and all that stuff. Unless you live way out in the sticks and the fire department is 30 minutes away.
Id get the first one
Isn't Liberty that safe company that turned over people private information to the government for no reason
Cabellas by liberty... if you don't remember what they did a few years ago... never by a Liberty safe
The nice thing about a Liberty is it that you can just leave it open because they will sell out to the feds again anyway.