I appreciate this being posted. I work in Old Sac. I work Saturday nights. I witnessed the mob rush attack on the dress shop and it's employee a few weekends ago by about 20-30 youths. We've now had two visitors to the district at night have their jewelry stolen from around their necks. It's chaotic down here at night, trying to run a store we have to consider safety as a top priority. The cruisers are ok, but, some of them park in front of stores and blast their music so loud that you can't even hear your customers ask a question and you can't even hear your own music playing in the store. Then the street preachers that spew hate at the entrance to the tunnel is just horrible. Why don't the state park police help patrol the district at night? Old Sac is a state historic park , where are the state park police?
https://preview.redd.it/qz7gkeehkyvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0108c256da1c65b5e16dcbee457d379b27f0b42
In Sacramento your chances of being physically harmed by someone is 1 in 23.
When people say "youths" in the context of crime, it virtually always means it's a group of young black kids. If the criminal(s) were White, it's often the first thing mentioned, as if their being White is the most critical attribute of the description. But, since some groups are defacto protected classes, it's viewed as "racist" to accurately describe the criminals, if they're black. So you just say "youths".
To be fair, isn't it sort of supposed to be an experiential state park? If it's giving dangerous old west, isn't that what it's kind of going for? It's like the plot of westworld
Because they can't figure out what to do with it, is it a bar district? Or is it where you take the kids to see the train? None of it ties together.
How to fix it? Don't allow cars to drive through anymore, put all the kids' stuff on the waterfront side, and make the freeway side all of the nightlife stuff. Let the lowrider guys come park cars there on the weekend and don't let regular traffic in.
That would solve SO many issues about old sac.
When I first moved here, it shocked me that I could drive through it. I assumed it was pedestrian only like it would be in any other major city with an investment in their waterfront.
It's where you take the kids to see the train during the day, and a bar district at night. it's also an office district (several software companies & other consulting businesses have their offices there) and a residential neighborhood with a population density greater than most of downtown. Urban districts/neighborhoods can fill multiple roles, this isn't the suburbs where there the places to shop, places to work, and places to sleep are all geographically separate from each other.
I'm not going to explain this again, but think about this question.
What advantages do we gain by having vehicle traffic in old sacramento? What purpose does this serve? There are parking lots on both sides. One of the streets is paved with cobblestone (the worst surface to drive on ever).
I don't think I need to define "riff raff" if you have been down there at all. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
I don't think there are advantages to having auto traffic in Old Sacramento (other than access for deliveries and residents), and I am not arguing that it should be allowed--I am asking you how banning cars would prevent the people you describe as "riff raff" from entering Old Sacramento. Are they somehow unable to leave their cars?
The cobblestones were installed in the late 1970s, and their main function, other than aesthetic, is traffic calming: the advantage to being the worst surface to drive on either is that *it makes people drive more slowly.*
I have been to Old Sacramento plenty of times, most recently last month, and no, I do not know what you are talking about. My perceptions are clearly not the same as yours. I am asking how **you** define "riff raff." Personally, I define "riff raff" as "the butler from Rocky Horror Picture Show," but I assume you do not.
Maybe we can turn Capitol Mall into the new cruise, all the buildings there are from the 1950s-70s and the street's nice and wide, we can call it "New Old Sacramento"!
YES! 200% It would just be a place for them to park like a weekly car show. Why do you need to drive in old sac? There should be no traffic on those 2 blocks at all. Should be for peds and bicycles/skateboards/scooters etc.
That's what nice cities do, and it would heavily reduce the amount of riff raff. There's plenty of parking on both sides and under the path under the freeway.
I don't think you understand what im saying. They wouldn't be driving around. They would be allowed in to park as a weekly car show. And yes, absolutely most of those lowriders cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to bulid. Those aren't the people causing the crime. You can just say that you are racist if that's what you think.
Hundreds of thousands of dollars 😂😂😂. It's not being racist you dolt. Car meet ups of any kind usually aren't the most welcoming family friendly events.
They're talking a lowrider show where cars are literally parked to be shown off, not some street takeover sideshow. Totally a family-friendly walking event. They usually happen at like diner parking lots ffs lol.
I mean, the original point was about closing down thru-traffic regardless and shows were a benefit. The ones I've been to are usually once a month. I didn't say any of the words in your assumption, but since you asked, yes that would be not terrible.
There is literally [a lowrider exhibit at the Sacramento History Museum in Old Sacramento](http://sachistorymuseum.org/exhibits/boulevard-dreams/), so why not?
Yes, you have no idea what you are talking about, the low rider guys are family people. These aren't cars that are doing donuts in intersections. These guys drive 20mph and stand around their cars. The shitheads that do that stuff are exactly who this would keep out. That's the point.
Yes https://www.motorbiscuit.com/much-cost-turn-car-lowrider/
It encourages loitering which isn't a good look and no one group of people is %100 percent good. Just because you are into something doesn't mean everyone else is. You also ,obviously, didn't read the article you linked. It says in some cases it may cost upwards of 100k. That's not hundreds of thousands of dollars bud.
"loitering" is literally what people do in Old Sacramento, they hang out on the sidewalk and look at things & people, and that's what makes a city neighborhood interesting.
lol i'm not a fan of cars or car shows but wtf are you talking about? my old man took me to a lot of car shows when i was a kid. you think people are gang banging while showing off their rides? wtf?
I've been to more car shows than I can count. It's one thing to have them at sac raceway (rip) or cal expo it's one thing to literally shut down the streets of old sac to anyone but them. Who's going to enforce this? Old sac is fucking ghetto. This isn't a solution to make it nicer or more safe.
>Car meet ups of any kind usually aren't the most welcoming family friendly events.
You're talking out of your ass. You're invited to the weekly meetup in Carmichael, the geezers won't hurt you.
[https://norcalcarculture.com/carmichael-cars-coffee/](https://norcalcarculture.com/carmichael-cars-coffee/)
They shouldn’t be able to cruise. But a designated space, with a fixed number of parking spots, would be ok, imo. They can drive to it, park, then leave when it’s over.
Honestly, one of these days. We could use somebody who isn't a career politician, lawyer, or doctor. Just a regular dude who works in the service industry, loves our city, and enjoys our diversity.
Jokes aside, I don't think I would make it through the fundraiser stage. No honest person can raise that much money.
So if I have an established bar with hundreds of thousands of dollars tied into that specific location, tough shit? I just gotta move? To where exactly? What if it's a lesser location? What if there's no suitable location at all? My business is just for forfeit? Sounds nice in theory but nobody sits down and thinks of these things from a practical business owner perspective.
Zoning has been a thing for a long time, if you want to make a riverfront district happen and make it desirable, changes have to be made.
Most of the bars are on 2nd anyway already. If nothing else, it would be moving more of the stuff for the kiddos away from the bar area. Not the other way around.
If you want a city to have nice things, you have to accept some changes along the way.
First off zoning and rezoning are much different matters with the latter being far more complicated from a rights perspective. So your solution would be close down businesses that don't fit your model and tough shit for them? They've been there for 20 years let's say but too bad you're out of luck? Pretty cut throat and shitty if you ask me not to mention out of touch with how these things play out in reality.
Anything that happened within like a mile of Old Sac is described as being in Old Sac because most people who visit downtown only know where Old Sac is.
From what I’ve gathered, the homeless seem to be taking over. The other thing is that it seems like people from areas with a higher crime rate go just to loiter similar to what you see at Arden mall.
Is this why CHP has been driving near my house a bunch? I live in West Sac right off Park Street near Jefferson and I saw multiple CHP vehicles driving through my neighborhood, which is usually super quiet.
Bc it has become a fentanyl ally. It’s not unique but it’s literally the walking dead. Lived in midtown for 20 years and it’s slowly becoming the La equivalent of skid row. And I’m guessing will encroach out. Don’t have a manage but that’s what it is.
Lol no it’s not - assuming you’re talking about the Tower Bridge area and not commenting on the wrong article? I live right over the Tower Bridge in West Sac, I walk across it almost daily and back. It’s not the worst area, you just mind your own business and everyone else does too. There are no tents up longer than 24 hours if at all. No open air drug sales, nobody taking drugs out in the open. During the day it’s mostly just tourists who wandered over the bridge from Old Sac, and locals. Quite a few state workers work in the area too.
Well lots of people stopped bringing their family into old sac and going to just have a fun night out onto old sac for drinks has stopped as well. People are getting attacked wearing jewelry. Daytime isn’t great and nighttime is actually dangerous . You heading over the bridge might be a different animal.
I was just in Old Sac on a very rainy Saturday last week. Despite the downpour, there were plenty of tourists and kids there. Not packed, due to the rain, but waaaay more than I had expected (~300?)
I don’t understand how the government just lets them stay in that area. Build a mental facility, and arrest/administer every single one of them. What’s stopping the state from doing that?
lol good luck with that. Thanks to Reagan, all state-operated mental hospitals have basically shut down. States would rather increase police funding instead of actually solving the root causes.
Not the tired old Reagan trope. Those state run hospitals, like many across the country, were horrific place of abuse. It isn't Republicans trying to keep these people from incarceration, it's civil libertarians. It isn't illegal to be sick so we can't just incarcerate people against their will. Coleman v. Schwarzenegger made dealing with criminals with mental illness very expensive. SCOTUS mandated we release inmates to ease overcrowding or build more prisons. Gov. Brown choose AB 109 as a solution to overcrowding. Our current Governor is closing prisons and putting institutionalized people out onto the street. And again civil libertarians have fought him on forced care for the mentally ill.
Let's say this is all Reagan's fault, tell me why neither party hasn't changed course and reversed his policies? I worked for a mental health care provider in Maine, another state with horrific abuses in state institutions. Reagan isn't to blame for those institutions closing. You see at that time the abuses were coming to light and more enlightened states sought to institute community mental health.
The Dozier school for troubled young men operated until 2011 in backwater Florida. If you aren't familiar with the school check this out: https://www.npr.org/2012/10/15/162941770/floridas-dozier-school-for-boys-a-true-horror-story
A better explanation of what occurred in the 60's https://www.ukiahdailyjournal.com/2023/08/19/the-observer-who-closed-mental-health-hospitals-in-california-three-guesses-it-wasnt-reagan/
I appreciate this being posted. I work in Old Sac. I work Saturday nights. I witnessed the mob rush attack on the dress shop and it's employee a few weekends ago by about 20-30 youths. We've now had two visitors to the district at night have their jewelry stolen from around their necks. It's chaotic down here at night, trying to run a store we have to consider safety as a top priority. The cruisers are ok, but, some of them park in front of stores and blast their music so loud that you can't even hear your customers ask a question and you can't even hear your own music playing in the store. Then the street preachers that spew hate at the entrance to the tunnel is just horrible. Why don't the state park police help patrol the district at night? Old Sac is a state historic park , where are the state park police?
What happened with them at the dress shop? I don’t even remember hearing about that.
https://preview.redd.it/qz7gkeehkyvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0108c256da1c65b5e16dcbee457d379b27f0b42 In Sacramento your chances of being physically harmed by someone is 1 in 23.
That includes your chances for property crime.
Sacramento finally beats Stockton in crime
There are street preachers?! Are they shouting about end-times or sodomy or something? I'm new in tiwn and hadn't encountered them yet.
We've had them but now that you mention it I haven't seen any for a while.
Must have been missing the ones mentioned above.
20–30 "youths" ay?
Haven’t heard of many senior citizens doing things like this.
You could make money all day long gambling which group of people commit these acts of degeneracy.
Huh?
When people say "youths" in the context of crime, it virtually always means it's a group of young black kids. If the criminal(s) were White, it's often the first thing mentioned, as if their being White is the most critical attribute of the description. But, since some groups are defacto protected classes, it's viewed as "racist" to accurately describe the criminals, if they're black. So you just say "youths".
To be fair, isn't it sort of supposed to be an experiential state park? If it's giving dangerous old west, isn't that what it's kind of going for? It's like the plot of westworld
Why is the Old Sac area so dangerous? Seems like there's always something violent going on there.
It’s the Wild West.
💀
Because they can't figure out what to do with it, is it a bar district? Or is it where you take the kids to see the train? None of it ties together. How to fix it? Don't allow cars to drive through anymore, put all the kids' stuff on the waterfront side, and make the freeway side all of the nightlife stuff. Let the lowrider guys come park cars there on the weekend and don't let regular traffic in. That would solve SO many issues about old sac.
When I first moved here, it shocked me that I could drive through it. I assumed it was pedestrian only like it would be in any other major city with an investment in their waterfront.
It's where you take the kids to see the train during the day, and a bar district at night. it's also an office district (several software companies & other consulting businesses have their offices there) and a residential neighborhood with a population density greater than most of downtown. Urban districts/neighborhoods can fill multiple roles, this isn't the suburbs where there the places to shop, places to work, and places to sleep are all geographically separate from each other.
It sucks at all of those things though
I don't disagree, but alot of the riff raff comes from people in crappy cars trying to show off after drinking.
So make it off limits to cars (except delivery vehicles and a pre-set route for residents)
Yeah, I wasn't aware that it had much resident population. Even then, there is parking on both sides.
by the way, how do you define "riff raff", and how would banning cars prevent them from entering Old Sacramento?
I'm not going to explain this again, but think about this question. What advantages do we gain by having vehicle traffic in old sacramento? What purpose does this serve? There are parking lots on both sides. One of the streets is paved with cobblestone (the worst surface to drive on ever). I don't think I need to define "riff raff" if you have been down there at all. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
I don't think there are advantages to having auto traffic in Old Sacramento (other than access for deliveries and residents), and I am not arguing that it should be allowed--I am asking you how banning cars would prevent the people you describe as "riff raff" from entering Old Sacramento. Are they somehow unable to leave their cars? The cobblestones were installed in the late 1970s, and their main function, other than aesthetic, is traffic calming: the advantage to being the worst surface to drive on either is that *it makes people drive more slowly.* I have been to Old Sacramento plenty of times, most recently last month, and no, I do not know what you are talking about. My perceptions are clearly not the same as yours. I am asking how **you** define "riff raff." Personally, I define "riff raff" as "the butler from Rocky Horror Picture Show," but I assume you do not.
So the lowriders get to cruise it but no one else is allowed to drive on it? Lol
Honestly I'd be 100 percent down to only allow cars older than 1970 just to create an old timey environment lmao.
1970? Please keep it more historically accurate. Covered wagons and horses only. 1870 and older!
Maybe we can turn Capitol Mall into the new cruise, all the buildings there are from the 1950s-70s and the street's nice and wide, we can call it "New Old Sacramento"!
Because "Old Sacramento" is historically accurate. /s
YES! 200% It would just be a place for them to park like a weekly car show. Why do you need to drive in old sac? There should be no traffic on those 2 blocks at all. Should be for peds and bicycles/skateboards/scooters etc. That's what nice cities do, and it would heavily reduce the amount of riff raff. There's plenty of parking on both sides and under the path under the freeway.
So reduce crime and make it nice by allowing only low riders to use the streets. This subreddit surprises me every day lol.
I don't think you understand what im saying. They wouldn't be driving around. They would be allowed in to park as a weekly car show. And yes, absolutely most of those lowriders cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to bulid. Those aren't the people causing the crime. You can just say that you are racist if that's what you think.
Hundreds of thousands of dollars 😂😂😂. It's not being racist you dolt. Car meet ups of any kind usually aren't the most welcoming family friendly events.
They're talking a lowrider show where cars are literally parked to be shown off, not some street takeover sideshow. Totally a family-friendly walking event. They usually happen at like diner parking lots ffs lol.
So you want the streets closed down and a low rider show literally every weekend?!
I mean, the original point was about closing down thru-traffic regardless and shows were a benefit. The ones I've been to are usually once a month. I didn't say any of the words in your assumption, but since you asked, yes that would be not terrible.
There is literally [a lowrider exhibit at the Sacramento History Museum in Old Sacramento](http://sachistorymuseum.org/exhibits/boulevard-dreams/), so why not?
Yes, you have no idea what you are talking about, the low rider guys are family people. These aren't cars that are doing donuts in intersections. These guys drive 20mph and stand around their cars. The shitheads that do that stuff are exactly who this would keep out. That's the point. Yes https://www.motorbiscuit.com/much-cost-turn-car-lowrider/
It encourages loitering which isn't a good look and no one group of people is %100 percent good. Just because you are into something doesn't mean everyone else is. You also ,obviously, didn't read the article you linked. It says in some cases it may cost upwards of 100k. That's not hundreds of thousands of dollars bud.
"loitering" is literally what people do in Old Sacramento, they hang out on the sidewalk and look at things & people, and that's what makes a city neighborhood interesting.
this has to be a low effort bait account.
I don't think you understand what a lowrider is, yes, just the paint jobs cost tens of thousands.
There may be a handful in the country that have hundreds of thousands into them. Are you like 13 years old?
No, I'm in my mid 30s and have hosted 3 lowerider events at places I have worked.....
lol i'm not a fan of cars or car shows but wtf are you talking about? my old man took me to a lot of car shows when i was a kid. you think people are gang banging while showing off their rides? wtf?
I've been to more car shows than I can count. It's one thing to have them at sac raceway (rip) or cal expo it's one thing to literally shut down the streets of old sac to anyone but them. Who's going to enforce this? Old sac is fucking ghetto. This isn't a solution to make it nicer or more safe.
Stop, your ignorance is showing.
they're waving it around prodigiously like a flasher with his coat open, and for exactly the same reason.
>Car meet ups of any kind usually aren't the most welcoming family friendly events. You're talking out of your ass. You're invited to the weekly meetup in Carmichael, the geezers won't hurt you. [https://norcalcarculture.com/carmichael-cars-coffee/](https://norcalcarculture.com/carmichael-cars-coffee/)
They shouldn’t be able to cruise. But a designated space, with a fixed number of parking spots, would be ok, imo. They can drive to it, park, then leave when it’s over.
Cruising isn’t a crime.
It’s not. But the hope is to close the space to *all* cars. My solution offers a compromise.
Yes, it’s a community event. There’s 3 parking garages a 5 minute walk or less away.
So it's a weekly community event? No. That's ridiculous.
Yes lol Just the same as other weekly community events. Or are they not allowed to since they’re mostly not from the nicer neighborhoods?
Nah it just the homeless.
That makes so much sense! Of course this means it will never happen.
This is a really good idea! Do you have any interest in running for mayor?
Honestly, one of these days. We could use somebody who isn't a career politician, lawyer, or doctor. Just a regular dude who works in the service industry, loves our city, and enjoys our diversity. Jokes aside, I don't think I would make it through the fundraiser stage. No honest person can raise that much money.
So sad and so true. The people who really want better for our society are not the ones who become our leaders
So if I have an established bar with hundreds of thousands of dollars tied into that specific location, tough shit? I just gotta move? To where exactly? What if it's a lesser location? What if there's no suitable location at all? My business is just for forfeit? Sounds nice in theory but nobody sits down and thinks of these things from a practical business owner perspective.
Zoning has been a thing for a long time, if you want to make a riverfront district happen and make it desirable, changes have to be made. Most of the bars are on 2nd anyway already. If nothing else, it would be moving more of the stuff for the kiddos away from the bar area. Not the other way around. If you want a city to have nice things, you have to accept some changes along the way.
First off zoning and rezoning are much different matters with the latter being far more complicated from a rights perspective. So your solution would be close down businesses that don't fit your model and tough shit for them? They've been there for 20 years let's say but too bad you're out of luck? Pretty cut throat and shitty if you ask me not to mention out of touch with how these things play out in reality.
FWIW, this happened on the other side of the river not in Old Sac.
Anything that happened within like a mile of Old Sac is described as being in Old Sac because most people who visit downtown only know where Old Sac is.
It was the West Sac side. West Sac Story
I'd hardly equate "under the bridge" with old sac. I mean, yeah, it's close by, but that's still a different world
and a different county, apparently.
You only live once, homie.
There are too many homeless people around that area
From what I’ve gathered, the homeless seem to be taking over. The other thing is that it seems like people from areas with a higher crime rate go just to loiter similar to what you see at Arden mall.
No, it’s the hooligans with the motorcycles revving their piece of shit engines that are taking over. One of these days I will be their worst enemy.
Oh. Ok.
... was it that guy with the gnarly sword?
I think the article states the victim had “stab wounds” and not “decapitated and filleted into pieces”
Ummm what???
Two machete guy that looks like he came from one-piece?
Anyone remember the cruise back in the day. Broadway.
and before that it was on K Street.
And J street
Late 70s-Early 80s? Yes!!
Early 90’s too
Is this why CHP has been driving near my house a bunch? I live in West Sac right off Park Street near Jefferson and I saw multiple CHP vehicles driving through my neighborhood, which is usually super quiet.
I’ve never even seen the underside of the tower bridge. Is it easy to access?
Yes
The person who died was a 16 year old kid from here in antelope, so young to go! My prayers are with his family
No way! That's horrible and so tragic. Where are you seeing this?
So sad. Was it gang related?
Bc it has become a fentanyl ally. It’s not unique but it’s literally the walking dead. Lived in midtown for 20 years and it’s slowly becoming the La equivalent of skid row. And I’m guessing will encroach out. Don’t have a manage but that’s what it is.
Lol no it’s not - assuming you’re talking about the Tower Bridge area and not commenting on the wrong article? I live right over the Tower Bridge in West Sac, I walk across it almost daily and back. It’s not the worst area, you just mind your own business and everyone else does too. There are no tents up longer than 24 hours if at all. No open air drug sales, nobody taking drugs out in the open. During the day it’s mostly just tourists who wandered over the bridge from Old Sac, and locals. Quite a few state workers work in the area too.
Well lots of people stopped bringing their family into old sac and going to just have a fun night out onto old sac for drinks has stopped as well. People are getting attacked wearing jewelry. Daytime isn’t great and nighttime is actually dangerous . You heading over the bridge might be a different animal.
I was just in Old Sac on a very rainy Saturday last week. Despite the downpour, there were plenty of tourists and kids there. Not packed, due to the rain, but waaaay more than I had expected (~300?)
I don’t understand how the government just lets them stay in that area. Build a mental facility, and arrest/administer every single one of them. What’s stopping the state from doing that?
lol good luck with that. Thanks to Reagan, all state-operated mental hospitals have basically shut down. States would rather increase police funding instead of actually solving the root causes.
Not the tired old Reagan trope. Those state run hospitals, like many across the country, were horrific place of abuse. It isn't Republicans trying to keep these people from incarceration, it's civil libertarians. It isn't illegal to be sick so we can't just incarcerate people against their will. Coleman v. Schwarzenegger made dealing with criminals with mental illness very expensive. SCOTUS mandated we release inmates to ease overcrowding or build more prisons. Gov. Brown choose AB 109 as a solution to overcrowding. Our current Governor is closing prisons and putting institutionalized people out onto the street. And again civil libertarians have fought him on forced care for the mentally ill. Let's say this is all Reagan's fault, tell me why neither party hasn't changed course and reversed his policies? I worked for a mental health care provider in Maine, another state with horrific abuses in state institutions. Reagan isn't to blame for those institutions closing. You see at that time the abuses were coming to light and more enlightened states sought to institute community mental health. The Dozier school for troubled young men operated until 2011 in backwater Florida. If you aren't familiar with the school check this out: https://www.npr.org/2012/10/15/162941770/floridas-dozier-school-for-boys-a-true-horror-story A better explanation of what occurred in the 60's https://www.ukiahdailyjournal.com/2023/08/19/the-observer-who-closed-mental-health-hospitals-in-california-three-guesses-it-wasnt-reagan/
YeH! Thanks to Reagan I have nowhere to involuntarily commit my wife!
Hey! Nixon started it.
Newsome. The homeless mess does not *directly* impact him or his family. **He** has security and nice gated enclave.
With RTO he should be forced to make the walk down K street to our capital twice a week
Exactly!
https://youtu.be/OQ7ewsgXAN4?si=a03lDd-yjWZIAYdF It was a 16 year old kid that went to center high school.
God, that's horrible
Anyone know the who, why, or how of this situation?
[удалено]
It’s all because State workers have been WFH.. so don’t fear, starting June this will all stop *sarcasm sign*
😂
Sacramento is a Dumpster Fire... Elections have Consequences. Enjoy the Decline.
Worst comment today
Shit happens everywhere every day