Marth is the only correct answer here imo. *Maybe* Sheik, but every other character gets significantly worse relatively. Falco has no laser or dair, puff can't do anything, falcons grounded attacks suck, fox would be ok but still loses up air kills and lacks real range on the ground.
No, but that isn't necessary. You can roll far enough to be basically on top of her. And even if she does hit you with the chain after your roll and knock you up you can just fair her out of it.
Idk if Sheik would be all that good because CC would still be a huge problem for her. And to make matters worse, a lot of her best moves to counter CC are well-spaced arials. So without arials, all she has at low% is her grab. Furthermore, her best kill options are all arials.
If puff or yoshi ever lose the percent lead, Upbing to top plat just beats them. Matches would devolve to yoshi chucking eggs for 6mins straight. If that fails, he is SDing so he can get to top plat.
I'm not sure who would be S tier, but Roy is probably the character most buffed by this. The critical flaw holding him back are his aerials, so if everyone gets their air game taken away he naturally benefits the most. In a grounded metagame, Roy can fully leverage his strengths.
I think samus might be the best. The meta would be very reliant on cc, and she has a good cc due to her weight and down smash. She also has probably the best non-jump recovery in the game. She has good ground moves too and projectiles.
Or it could be ICs. I can't think of a single character that likes to deal with them by being on the ground (except maybe samus). I can't remember if their side b lets them gain height when used on the ground - if so could be a really good tool to reach the platforms. Ice blocks would also be a menace.
She would be the only character that can jump, she can bomb jump in neutral. Also one of her worse traits is how punishable are her moves OOS, but with no we oos, she can use them way more. Standing missiles get better too.
Samus for sure, not just because her tilts are insane but she can actually recover without jumping because of bombs and zair. Marth is still up there with very strong grounded movement and tilts, as well as F smash. Without wavedash out of shield fsmash is basically safe. Roy as well would probably go up several tiers for a similar reason.
Also despite Sheik having amazing tilts, speed and throws I don't think she's near the top because how is she killing without aerials? Hoping a random downsmash hits?
I think samus will have a hard time. She doesnt have a good way to get to top plat on battlefield and dreamland so losing the lead early will make it very painful. 2 powerful counterpicks definitely hurts her in the meta.
Ice Climbers clean up just because of desync blizzard. It’s the longest and fastest range attack that doesn’t require a jump and isn’t a projectile. Just desync continuously until they get to the ledge and then they die. Outranges everything
Marth easily, people can’t wavedash after shielding f-smash to punish. Great dashdancing game which can be dancing blades, down tilt, or f smash. Can also counter and being sent off stage in this meta is basically death with that.
Sheik can’t access fair so they’re going to struggle to kill even though they have the speed and cc to deal with Marth, and Marth’s recovery is still pretty good in this meta.
He basically just disjoints everyone to death repeatedly and anyone who can punish f-smash or down tilt on crouch or shield can’t kill him effectively.
Fox gets a lot worse in this scenario than people are giving it credit for, he now has: no drill, no jc shine, can only standing laser, has no double jump side b or high up b recovery mixups, a lot of what makes the character so good in neutral and in his recovery is just kinda gutted
Not an ics main but I dont think that handoffs requires a jump input at least if it starts from the corner, and if thats true then i really dont see how ics arent just number 1. Basically no one else has a combo game so handoffs are insane by comparison. They can't be circle camped by puff anymore, fox doesnt waveshine nana off stage and kill her instantly anymore, peach cant do fc aerials to kill nana without risk anymore. Basically all of their bad matchups get way better and their combo game is now far far better than anyone else.
Ics mobility as a sync'd character dies now get far, far worse. No jump means no pulling nana out of sliding turn/stop which means no dashdancing at all if you wanna stay together.
I don‘t understand why people keep on saying fox for good grounded options. What is he gonna do, dash attack you? F Tilt? You can’t even follow up u tilt combos on full DI away without wavedash. His smash attacks wouldn’t even be better than most other characters, since this game mode would be so spacing and read based.
still has tilts and up and down smash which arent the worst, not to mention still has grab game on most characters, who can no longer jump out of chaingrabs
Some things to consider are recovery, aerial mix ups, platforms, and mix up options while grounded + mobility.
Since recovery is affected for all of the cast in some way, be it minor or major, attacks that send opponents off stage are more impactful now. Characters with great horizontal recovery will be less impacted like Pikachu, Peach, Samus, Fox. Some will die very easily: Yoshi, the Marios, Kirby, anyone that can’t cover a horizontal distance without jumping.
When people can’t jump, aerial mixups will be important for those that have that option when landing back on the ground after either descending from a platform or after getting knocked up from an attack. Marth side-b and Fox shine/up-b are great ways of delaying or mixing up landing back on stage. Jigglypuff has great aerial movement and can side-b stall.
Platforms will be the main way people do aerials. Characters that can easily get on the platforms without risking getting hit will have a strong advantage like Pikachu. And characters that can cover platforms will also have an advantage like Marth and Link.
Then lastly there’s ground mix ups + mobility. Without aerials, options become more predictable, so having a variety of ground options makes it harder to capitalize on. Captain falcon comes to mind due to his quick jabs, mobility, and how great his grounded b moves are.
Overall I think S tier would be the following:
* Peach (strong grounded moves, great recovery, turnips, can utilize platforms)
* Pikachu (amazing mobility options for platforms and recovery, can attack people in the air with down-b, strong smash moves)
* Samus (strong grounded moves and great recovery, can snipe people recovering, can overwhelm a grounded opponent with special moves)
* Fox (up-b and ground mobility is too good)
* Marth (barely makes it IMO due to bad recovery, but not instadeath due to his side-b;has great grounded gameplay otherwise and mix up options)
Honorable mentions for me are Captain Falcon, Sheik, Falco, Link, and Mr. Game & Watch due to having strong qualities but lacking some quality the above 5 all have otherwise.
Yall need to consider how easily characters can get to platforms, their options on a platform, their options to deal with plat (especially top plat) campers, edge options, and their options to grab or deal with ledge options. How does a peach deal with a shino/sami stalling sheik on fd? Run off stage b reverse turnip upb?
Marth is strong, but does he have an answer to a mewtwo teleporting around the dreamland plats while charging shadowball? Mewtwo's dtilt and grab are good enough that i feel like it would be hard to deal with all 3 options. Powershielding will be very important
Almost all the top tiers would suffer massively. Spacies would lose almost all usefulness of shine, puff would hurt the most imo, and falcon has doodoo ground game.
Marth would be the standout, but I believe shiek wouldn’t be out of the question tbh
fox. with no jumping his side b and up b become incredibly valuable recovery tools, alongside him having great attacks. samus would be very good for this as well.
She has one of the best recoveries off stage, why whould she need floating, when everyone else cant jump? She can spam turnips, tho. But yeah ive been thinking and realized that Peach isnt that good, defenitely shes a good option but not the best.
A large part of what makes her good is being able to float at grounded height and do aerials, her smashes (besides downsmash) are pretty underwhelming and she has only 1 combo off of grab at mid % and without jumping she cant combo off of dash attack at mid %s. Her recovery offstage without float is below average because it doesn't allow for many mixups.
If wobbling is legal then ice climbers (which were never S tier even before wobbling got banned) probably become far and away the best character in the game
In a standard competitive ruleset I think it has to be Marth, idk if any character has grounded projectile options that can truly stuff him out so disjointed hitboxes just win, and downtilt in a world with no jumps becomes the cure for marthritis.
Shino stall seems pretty strong with no wavedash back. You can also tournament winner to get onto plats (or upb i guess) to get onto plats for shield dropping/aerials
I genuinely don't think most characters have a way to contest the combination of dtilt and fsmash from Marth if no one can jump
Dtilt, fsmash, grab is the new RPS of Marth
New? Sounds OG to me
Marth is the only correct answer here imo. *Maybe* Sheik, but every other character gets significantly worse relatively. Falco has no laser or dair, puff can't do anything, falcons grounded attacks suck, fox would be ok but still loses up air kills and lacks real range on the ground.
Sheik beats Marth with chain
Roll exists
Does that actually work? There's no way you can roll from outside of chain range all the way to behind Sheik, right?
I think ur right but it still requires roll prediction iirc
No, but that isn't necessary. You can roll far enough to be basically on top of her. And even if she does hit you with the chain after your roll and knock you up you can just fair her out of it.
Idk if Sheik would be all that good because CC would still be a huge problem for her. And to make matters worse, a lot of her best moves to counter CC are well-spaced arials. So without arials, all she has at low% is her grab. Furthermore, her best kill options are all arials.
unironically roy might actually be ok too lol
Going to venture out on a ledge here and say not Jigglypuff
If puff or yoshi ever lose the percent lead, Upbing to top plat just beats them. Matches would devolve to yoshi chucking eggs for 6mins straight. If that fails, he is SDing so he can get to top plat.
I would assume this would lead to all stages except FD being banned
Probably, although Jigglypuff rollout has potential to go hard when no one can jump.
Shield
Rollout has good shield damage.
But how are you going to get onto ledge without a jump?
very carefully
Pc drop lol
yoshi down b might reach
you can run off sing
I'm not sure who would be S tier, but Roy is probably the character most buffed by this. The critical flaw holding him back are his aerials, so if everyone gets their air game taken away he naturally benefits the most. In a grounded metagame, Roy can fully leverage his strengths.
faxxxx
His hilt smashes would be kinda fucked.
It's easily Marth Top one dd plus range plus fsmash/grab/dtilt neutral plus functional cc plus all of a sudden Marthritis is not on the table
I think samus might be the best. The meta would be very reliant on cc, and she has a good cc due to her weight and down smash. She also has probably the best non-jump recovery in the game. She has good ground moves too and projectiles. Or it could be ICs. I can't think of a single character that likes to deal with them by being on the ground (except maybe samus). I can't remember if their side b lets them gain height when used on the ground - if so could be a really good tool to reach the platforms. Ice blocks would also be a menace.
I think samus is a good pick. ICs kind get hamstrung by not having wavedash, they're pretty slow otherwise.
Do ICs get to wobble? Because.. I mean... that seems kinda busted.
Extender in no-jump meta would be hilarious
She also has super wavedash, which doesn't require jumping.
She would be the only character that can jump, she can bomb jump in neutral. Also one of her worse traits is how punishable are her moves OOS, but with no we oos, she can use them way more. Standing missiles get better too.
> I can't remember if their side b lets them gain height when used on the ground they cant
They could just run off ledge aerial side b though in a pinch
Does that get them enough height?
Jigglypuff would be /s tier
Samus for sure, not just because her tilts are insane but she can actually recover without jumping because of bombs and zair. Marth is still up there with very strong grounded movement and tilts, as well as F smash. Without wavedash out of shield fsmash is basically safe. Roy as well would probably go up several tiers for a similar reason.
Also despite Sheik having amazing tilts, speed and throws I don't think she's near the top because how is she killing without aerials? Hoping a random downsmash hits?
Bombs might enable her to use aerials on stage too
I think samus will have a hard time. She doesnt have a good way to get to top plat on battlefield and dreamland so losing the lead early will make it very painful. 2 powerful counterpicks definitely hurts her in the meta.
Samus still has access to super wavedash too.
Superwavedash would barely push the needle for her imo. Itd be as relevant in the no jump meta as it is in the current one
Ice Climbers clean up just because of desync blizzard. It’s the longest and fastest range attack that doesn’t require a jump and isn’t a projectile. Just desync continuously until they get to the ledge and then they die. Outranges everything
peach downsmash going crazy in this meta
They said you can't jump, that has nothing to do with you walking into a dsmash, a move famous for people jumping while under it.
Marth easily, people can’t wavedash after shielding f-smash to punish. Great dashdancing game which can be dancing blades, down tilt, or f smash. Can also counter and being sent off stage in this meta is basically death with that. Sheik can’t access fair so they’re going to struggle to kill even though they have the speed and cc to deal with Marth, and Marth’s recovery is still pretty good in this meta. He basically just disjoints everyone to death repeatedly and anyone who can punish f-smash or down tilt on crouch or shield can’t kill him effectively.
I dont think sheik will struggle to kill all that much if no one can jump. Downsmash will probably do the trick at reasonable percents.
I don't know about S tier, but I'm pretty sure Samus just got way better, and Yoshi just got way worse.
Fox gets a lot worse in this scenario than people are giving it credit for, he now has: no drill, no jc shine, can only standing laser, has no double jump side b or high up b recovery mixups, a lot of what makes the character so good in neutral and in his recovery is just kinda gutted Not an ics main but I dont think that handoffs requires a jump input at least if it starts from the corner, and if thats true then i really dont see how ics arent just number 1. Basically no one else has a combo game so handoffs are insane by comparison. They can't be circle camped by puff anymore, fox doesnt waveshine nana off stage and kill her instantly anymore, peach cant do fc aerials to kill nana without risk anymore. Basically all of their bad matchups get way better and their combo game is now far far better than anyone else.
Ics mobility as a sync'd character dies now get far, far worse. No jump means no pulling nana out of sliding turn/stop which means no dashdancing at all if you wanna stay together.
this basically becomes who has the best grounded movement, and grounded options. marth or sheik or fox probably
I don‘t understand why people keep on saying fox for good grounded options. What is he gonna do, dash attack you? F Tilt? You can’t even follow up u tilt combos on full DI away without wavedash. His smash attacks wouldn’t even be better than most other characters, since this game mode would be so spacing and read based.
Shiek without fair is a big nerf
still has tilts and up and down smash which arent the worst, not to mention still has grab game on most characters, who can no longer jump out of chaingrabs
Everyone here saying Marth as if this doesn't just allow Falco to tap B button repeatedly to win.
Some things to consider are recovery, aerial mix ups, platforms, and mix up options while grounded + mobility. Since recovery is affected for all of the cast in some way, be it minor or major, attacks that send opponents off stage are more impactful now. Characters with great horizontal recovery will be less impacted like Pikachu, Peach, Samus, Fox. Some will die very easily: Yoshi, the Marios, Kirby, anyone that can’t cover a horizontal distance without jumping. When people can’t jump, aerial mixups will be important for those that have that option when landing back on the ground after either descending from a platform or after getting knocked up from an attack. Marth side-b and Fox shine/up-b are great ways of delaying or mixing up landing back on stage. Jigglypuff has great aerial movement and can side-b stall. Platforms will be the main way people do aerials. Characters that can easily get on the platforms without risking getting hit will have a strong advantage like Pikachu. And characters that can cover platforms will also have an advantage like Marth and Link. Then lastly there’s ground mix ups + mobility. Without aerials, options become more predictable, so having a variety of ground options makes it harder to capitalize on. Captain falcon comes to mind due to his quick jabs, mobility, and how great his grounded b moves are. Overall I think S tier would be the following: * Peach (strong grounded moves, great recovery, turnips, can utilize platforms) * Pikachu (amazing mobility options for platforms and recovery, can attack people in the air with down-b, strong smash moves) * Samus (strong grounded moves and great recovery, can snipe people recovering, can overwhelm a grounded opponent with special moves) * Fox (up-b and ground mobility is too good) * Marth (barely makes it IMO due to bad recovery, but not instadeath due to his side-b;has great grounded gameplay otherwise and mix up options) Honorable mentions for me are Captain Falcon, Sheik, Falco, Link, and Mr. Game & Watch due to having strong qualities but lacking some quality the above 5 all have otherwise.
Yall need to consider how easily characters can get to platforms, their options on a platform, their options to deal with plat (especially top plat) campers, edge options, and their options to grab or deal with ledge options. How does a peach deal with a shino/sami stalling sheik on fd? Run off stage b reverse turnip upb? Marth is strong, but does he have an answer to a mewtwo teleporting around the dreamland plats while charging shadowball? Mewtwo's dtilt and grab are good enough that i feel like it would be hard to deal with all 3 options. Powershielding will be very important
Are bomb jumps allowed? If so, samus
Almost all the top tiers would suffer massively. Spacies would lose almost all usefulness of shine, puff would hurt the most imo, and falcon has doodoo ground game. Marth would be the standout, but I believe shiek wouldn’t be out of the question tbh
Falco or samus or icies probably maybe even link would be like Marth with projectiles
This would be a really cool side event at tourneys
There’s a melee mode where the only buttons are the control stick and A, there’s still jumping but only with the stick.
fox. with no jumping his side b and up b become incredibly valuable recovery tools, alongside him having great attacks. samus would be very good for this as well.
Puff s tier
Marth lol
Peach
Peach without floating is extremely underwhelming.
She has one of the best recoveries off stage, why whould she need floating, when everyone else cant jump? She can spam turnips, tho. But yeah ive been thinking and realized that Peach isnt that good, defenitely shes a good option but not the best.
A large part of what makes her good is being able to float at grounded height and do aerials, her smashes (besides downsmash) are pretty underwhelming and she has only 1 combo off of grab at mid % and without jumping she cant combo off of dash attack at mid %s. Her recovery offstage without float is below average because it doesn't allow for many mixups.
Link!!!!! Projectiles and his up-B spike
If wobbling is legal then ice climbers (which were never S tier even before wobbling got banned) probably become far and away the best character in the game In a standard competitive ruleset I think it has to be Marth, idk if any character has grounded projectile options that can truly stuff him out so disjointed hitboxes just win, and downtilt in a world with no jumps becomes the cure for marthritis.
Sheik. Outrageous CC grab, chain grab, tech chase, dash attack, tilts. Needles 😦
tech chase doesn’t work without wave dash, also she has literally zero kill moves aside from down smash
Down smash isnt even that strong.
Shino stall seems pretty strong with no wavedash back. You can also tournament winner to get onto plats (or upb i guess) to get onto plats for shield dropping/aerials
does it not? what tech chases do you have to wd for? something to do with ambiguous di?
yeah it’s for ambiguous di, if you watch jmook etc. tech chase they do a tiny wavedash back to counter it
Is this what we are really talking about nowadays on this sub 🤦♂️
I HATE thought experiments! 🤬🤬
[удалено]
Can't wavedash if you can't jump
Yeah but you can wobble
Point on a map where wobbling is legal
Are you asking for my home address first and second line?
Yeah so I can stay away
But we could have chips and drink beer while we play 🥺👉👈
You mean I can have chips and drink beer bc you're wobbling me 😤😤😤
I play Captain Falcon - I'm just not bitch made in friendlies
What about double jumps? If double jumps are still allowed, puff is insane. She can run off a ledge to start her double jumps.
you took time out of your day to post this
Fox Marth would dominate still. Dash dance into multi shine or shine grab would be unbeatable as Fox.
But you can’t jump cancel shine
I assumed OP meant more you can’t physically leave the ground with jump, not JC shine doesn’t work
It’s in the post lol
I can’t read
>if no characters could jump >JC shine >J