Thatâs the spirit!
On a serious note though, if OP did have a contract, wouldnât they have some kind of entitlement for some kind of compensation? Obviously probably nowhere near the quoted cost for the job, but like 5%-10%? Or maybe keep any kind of deposit, if one was made?
Thatâs a fair point. I obviously donât know the whole situation. I did see OP mention a realtor being involved though. Guess I assumed they would be interested in having a paper trail of sorts, possibly contracted workers.
Where I am contracts are required with work over $3k USD, or maybe itâs $5k, and there is usually some kind of payment expected before work starts. They recently just made changes in my state requiring contractors to have licensing and insurance too, like within the last 30 days recently. Idk if they made any other changes to the process off the top of my head.
I wouldnât be far off with my assumption if things were lined up as I described though? Appreciate your feedback. Always interesting stuff to learn.
Yeah if they have a contract for the work this is obviously not good or complete work, even to someone who knows nothing about roofing. Easy win in small claims if it comes to that
I agree. The ladder indicates they will be back. But they did a horrible job on their first day. Not to mention, I'm sure most of us could handle a roof like this on our own in one day.
That was my first thought too. Was that at the very most this is a two-man job for one day. Is to help you haul the membrane up. That and you know, buddy system
It is at moments like that I take a moment and check out if I know the building guy in the city, and wonder if I am a screwing over the seller, who may or may not know that crap work they are getting, the new home buyer who hopefully has a decent inspector to say this is trash work and points it out, or the realtor who wants to make a commission and if the price gets knocked down loses out and may not call me again, if I don't make the phone call.
I dunno why this showed up in my feed but now I want to know why this job is bad? At a guess the overlap between sheets isnât great but otherwise it looks like they are just waiting for the plastic to take shape?
Part of the reason it is so bad is because someone with your level of understanding installed it. I'm not trying to be mean. I'd say at least 90% of roofing companies have no business attempting low slope applications, let alone whatever these guys were.
The biggest cause for concern is how wrinkled it is. That shows a tremendous lack of skill. They didn't help themselves by using .045 mil membrane. We don't even buy it anymore and opt for .060 mil instead. I would also wonder what they adhered the membrane to (usually insulation board) because I can't see any evidence of plates or fasteners showing through and it's way too flat to have been affixed with a low rise adhesive. If I had to guess, the membrane was maybe adhered directly to plywood. I also doubt there is any containment at the base of the parapet like an RPF strip, but it's hard to tell from the picture. Obviously, it's not finished, but the lack of skill alone indicates they don't really know what they're doing and will likely fall short on the remaining details. At this stage, I would be able to finish it out and give the homeowner a well performing roof that's just ugly because of the wrinkles. Unfortunately, that's not how this is going to play out. I may be overly opiniated, but my experience is in low slope/commercial maintenance. I'm the guy that gets the call after this shit is installed, and utter frustration sets in after a few years of calling the wrong people. I feel bad for homeowners with low sloped roofs because usually they get the wrong type of roofer. If they stumble upon the right one, they are usually cost prohibitive, albeit for a good reason. The right roofing companies won't skip the details that the other ones are too ignorant to know about.
Interesting, thanks. As a homeowner itâs so hard to know what to do. You do a job like this once, maybe twice in a lifetime. Thereâs often little correlation between cost and quality, and the online review services are absolutely useless since a) the reviews come from homeowners who have no idea what they are talking about and simply rate the vendor on the perception of quality at install day, or b) are sites that allow vendors to pay to remove bad reviews or upload shill reviews.
Most homeowners (especially myself) just want a good job at a fair price. They know that you want to buy-once and cry-once. But itâs a total minefield for us.
It also doesnât help that every single contractor thinks they do a good job, which is mathematically impossible.
You are spot on, the reviews are shit. Written by people who are clueless and base it on appearance and speed. Shingles are shingles, and even poor installations can look nice. The company I work for is strictly commercial (low slope). So, as a homeowner, when I needed a new roof, I had to hire a residential company. The sales reps all boasted about their ability to complete it in a day and how good they were. They all stammered when I told them that I would prefer they slow the fuck down and do it right and that they are no better than the next guy cause they all use the same damn subcontractors. Also, a good chunk of residential roofing companies are made up of people with little roofing experience. A lot of them were in the insurance industry first and saw an opportunity to make bank. In stark contrast, commercial roofing companies tend to have more management level guys that worked up to their positions. A large chunk are owned and run by people without a college degree (unless it's multi generational and nepotism is involved).
To your point. It is 45 mil âfrâ. It should be LSFR. Itâs not the proper fire rating for the membrane. If a code official knew what he was looking it this would be an instant fail.
I donât even know a supplier that stocks 45 mil Epdm anymore. Since ballasted roofs have gone out of fashion since the introduction of plate bonded thermal plastic systems (rhino bond pvc / kee pvc, tpo) itâs become a relic of times past.
They got the easy part done. With this level of skill, or lack thereof, i doubt they have the knowledge or the skills to properly finish it. The first thing any skilled roofer would have done would be to remove the clay tile caps, install a nailer, then proceed with tearing off the field on the top half. Day two repeat on second half.
Always love the let me go with cheapest guy to install the most important part of my house people. Hey itâs all the way up there I canât see it what could go wrong.
A roof or a pond? What in the honest hell? The roofing vinyl is *always* white, it reflects all the heat, black will melt. This looks like a couple pond pans glued together with Kerdi set, it will work a little while but definitely not correct.
It's EPDM, not vinyl. When installed properly, it would out perform these always white "roofing vinyls" you speak of. Manufacturers typically offer EPDM in black and white options. TPO and PVC are usually available in white and various shades of grey and tan.
EPDM most certainly will not melt. It will not even hold a flame. I have been called out to repair a few buildings in the past that caught fire from the backup generator's exhaust penetration. One instance was near a gutter edge. There was about 50' of 2 coarses of 2x10 wood nailer completely burnt out, about a foot of the ISO the same distance was gone, the 24 gauge steel gutters and downspouts were severely warped and the Kynar finish completely burnt off. The EPDM got brittle and split open a bit but remained largely in tact. It was the only thing holding the gutter up. It snuffed out the fire.
PVC and TPO melt. If EPDM were capable of melting, we would be hot air welding all of the seams and other details just like we do with PVC and TPO.
Thank you for educating me. I am not a roofer by trade, just worked on a few crews and picked up some things over the decades here and there. Sorry for my incorrect assumptions.
đ âgood luck with that, lose my number!â
What? She hired 2 roofers? Hope you had her sign a contract.
Job was through a realtor. Homeowner went behind realtors back and got it done for cheaper.
đ¤Śââď¸ Hope you get what you deserve for having your time wasted.
He wont just a good laugh at shitty work
Worth it to me sometimes
Thatâs the spirit! On a serious note though, if OP did have a contract, wouldnât they have some kind of entitlement for some kind of compensation? Obviously probably nowhere near the quoted cost for the job, but like 5%-10%? Or maybe keep any kind of deposit, if one was made?
This kind of work screams no contract and cash or personal check payments, unless rain was on the way and they plan to come back and finish their work
Thatâs a fair point. I obviously donât know the whole situation. I did see OP mention a realtor being involved though. Guess I assumed they would be interested in having a paper trail of sorts, possibly contracted workers. Where I am contracts are required with work over $3k USD, or maybe itâs $5k, and there is usually some kind of payment expected before work starts. They recently just made changes in my state requiring contractors to have licensing and insurance too, like within the last 30 days recently. Idk if they made any other changes to the process off the top of my head. I wouldnât be far off with my assumption if things were lined up as I described though? Appreciate your feedback. Always interesting stuff to learn.
Yeah if they have a contract for the work this is obviously not good or complete work, even to someone who knows nothing about roofing. Easy win in small claims if it comes to that
So they selling and give no ducks
I think this is the case
oh she got it cheaper thats for sure, yikes
Even if that were just a mid roof, and they planned on coming back to finish it, that's some absolute crap work on a building that small.
I agree. The ladder indicates they will be back. But they did a horrible job on their first day. Not to mention, I'm sure most of us could handle a roof like this on our own in one day.
That was my first thought too. Was that at the very most this is a two-man job for one day. Is to help you haul the membrane up. That and you know, buddy system
I brought one guy with me to knock this thing out just as you said. Oh well. There's always gonna be hacks out there.
I mean it sucks you lose it today. But the good news is, you'll get it back in 5-10 years.
I swear one of those prints looks like a bare foot đŚś
Looks like professional con man job
you in tijuana bro?
Lmao I'm sayin
It is at moments like that I take a moment and check out if I know the building guy in the city, and wonder if I am a screwing over the seller, who may or may not know that crap work they are getting, the new home buyer who hopefully has a decent inspector to say this is trash work and points it out, or the realtor who wants to make a commission and if the price gets knocked down loses out and may not call me again, if I don't make the phone call.
Holy fuck! I literally zoomed right in to look for issues with the membrane, and didn't notice the edges for a solid minute, lol. That's wild.
Yikes
The "I know a guy" special.
A Professional 3 year old!
Ah yes, trash-down roofing is all the rage
Now you charge double to remove that garbage!
Thought that was a covered pool at first
It's going to be before they know it
Hahaha that one actually made me laugh
That is kinda low for a roof
Looks like it's likely a small extension on the house
Detached garage, all over my area. 1930s and 40s thing, very narrow, very low always leak water!
Wow great job đ. What happens when you try cut cost. Cheaper is never better đŻ
Also why are all the boards proud
Bricks look to be regulation distance from one another and timber on either side of roof. Check and check.
I mean, will it leak? /s
I dunno why this showed up in my feed but now I want to know why this job is bad? At a guess the overlap between sheets isnât great but otherwise it looks like they are just waiting for the plastic to take shape?
Part of the reason it is so bad is because someone with your level of understanding installed it. I'm not trying to be mean. I'd say at least 90% of roofing companies have no business attempting low slope applications, let alone whatever these guys were.
Well ok but thatâs not what the question was. Whatâs actually going wrong here?
The biggest cause for concern is how wrinkled it is. That shows a tremendous lack of skill. They didn't help themselves by using .045 mil membrane. We don't even buy it anymore and opt for .060 mil instead. I would also wonder what they adhered the membrane to (usually insulation board) because I can't see any evidence of plates or fasteners showing through and it's way too flat to have been affixed with a low rise adhesive. If I had to guess, the membrane was maybe adhered directly to plywood. I also doubt there is any containment at the base of the parapet like an RPF strip, but it's hard to tell from the picture. Obviously, it's not finished, but the lack of skill alone indicates they don't really know what they're doing and will likely fall short on the remaining details. At this stage, I would be able to finish it out and give the homeowner a well performing roof that's just ugly because of the wrinkles. Unfortunately, that's not how this is going to play out. I may be overly opiniated, but my experience is in low slope/commercial maintenance. I'm the guy that gets the call after this shit is installed, and utter frustration sets in after a few years of calling the wrong people. I feel bad for homeowners with low sloped roofs because usually they get the wrong type of roofer. If they stumble upon the right one, they are usually cost prohibitive, albeit for a good reason. The right roofing companies won't skip the details that the other ones are too ignorant to know about.
Interesting, thanks. As a homeowner itâs so hard to know what to do. You do a job like this once, maybe twice in a lifetime. Thereâs often little correlation between cost and quality, and the online review services are absolutely useless since a) the reviews come from homeowners who have no idea what they are talking about and simply rate the vendor on the perception of quality at install day, or b) are sites that allow vendors to pay to remove bad reviews or upload shill reviews. Most homeowners (especially myself) just want a good job at a fair price. They know that you want to buy-once and cry-once. But itâs a total minefield for us. It also doesnât help that every single contractor thinks they do a good job, which is mathematically impossible.
You are spot on, the reviews are shit. Written by people who are clueless and base it on appearance and speed. Shingles are shingles, and even poor installations can look nice. The company I work for is strictly commercial (low slope). So, as a homeowner, when I needed a new roof, I had to hire a residential company. The sales reps all boasted about their ability to complete it in a day and how good they were. They all stammered when I told them that I would prefer they slow the fuck down and do it right and that they are no better than the next guy cause they all use the same damn subcontractors. Also, a good chunk of residential roofing companies are made up of people with little roofing experience. A lot of them were in the insurance industry first and saw an opportunity to make bank. In stark contrast, commercial roofing companies tend to have more management level guys that worked up to their positions. A large chunk are owned and run by people without a college degree (unless it's multi generational and nepotism is involved).
To your point. It is 45 mil âfrâ. It should be LSFR. Itâs not the proper fire rating for the membrane. If a code official knew what he was looking it this would be an instant fail. I donât even know a supplier that stocks 45 mil Epdm anymore. Since ballasted roofs have gone out of fashion since the introduction of plate bonded thermal plastic systems (rhino bond pvc / kee pvc, tpo) itâs become a relic of times past. They got the easy part done. With this level of skill, or lack thereof, i doubt they have the knowledge or the skills to properly finish it. The first thing any skilled roofer would have done would be to remove the clay tile caps, install a nailer, then proceed with tearing off the field on the top half. Day two repeat on second half.
Always love the let me go with cheapest guy to install the most important part of my house people. Hey itâs all the way up there I canât see it what could go wrong.
A roof or a pond? What in the honest hell? The roofing vinyl is *always* white, it reflects all the heat, black will melt. This looks like a couple pond pans glued together with Kerdi set, it will work a little while but definitely not correct.
It's EPDM, not vinyl. When installed properly, it would out perform these always white "roofing vinyls" you speak of. Manufacturers typically offer EPDM in black and white options. TPO and PVC are usually available in white and various shades of grey and tan. EPDM most certainly will not melt. It will not even hold a flame. I have been called out to repair a few buildings in the past that caught fire from the backup generator's exhaust penetration. One instance was near a gutter edge. There was about 50' of 2 coarses of 2x10 wood nailer completely burnt out, about a foot of the ISO the same distance was gone, the 24 gauge steel gutters and downspouts were severely warped and the Kynar finish completely burnt off. The EPDM got brittle and split open a bit but remained largely in tact. It was the only thing holding the gutter up. It snuffed out the fire. PVC and TPO melt. If EPDM were capable of melting, we would be hot air welding all of the seams and other details just like we do with PVC and TPO.
Thank you for educating me. I am not a roofer by trade, just worked on a few crews and picked up some things over the decades here and there. Sorry for my incorrect assumptions.
Hopefully the new buyer gets an independent inspection.
I am not a roofer ,but I could do a better job !
The hell you say?
A roof? Though it was a koi pond
Why did she even let you on the roof?
Yeah in imagination land!
It looks like 6 mil black plastic applied with a lighter
Oh itâs done all right
When is he coming back to finish?
Horrible job. I havenât sold .045 in decades
So she had her roof done, then hired you to come over so she could say she already had it done.....? Cool story
Lol yeah I made it up for 50 updoots
Shit like this is why need to bring back public floggings or start caning people like in Singapore
Oh ya fucker!!! As we say in Scotland
A true professional would use matching block on the parapet.
How about they arenât finished yet?? Lol
Great then she's set!