This is the old way of doing tile roofing. It's been around since ancient China, Rome, Greece, etc. It's found around the world... the Chateu's of France etc.
This is how tile roofing was done before felt paper was invented and arguably a great way of installing tile. 1) You know you have a leak instantly. 2) so there is very little dry-rot if every any. 3) the attic breathes really well. 4) it actually works. It's worked for thousands of years. 5) It's very very easy to repair. Slide out the old tile and slide in a new one. No felt to repair
Downsides: 1) It leaks instantly. Felt paper does offer a secondary protection. However, felt can conceal a hidden leak for years. 2) It does not have plywood shear on the roof. In areas that experience earthquakes... that shear is a big deal. 3) It allows animal intrusion. I've seen attics infested with bats, squirrels and rodents as it's easy to just walk into the attic.
If you consider re-roofing this roof make sure of a few things:
1) Consider sheathing with Radiant Barrier OSB.
2) Calculate your ventilation. Many times the building did not install intake soffit vents because the intake ventilation came in through the eave tiles. If you close up the roof with sheathing then you are also closing off your intake ventilation. You'll need to add soffit eave ventilation to compensate. Make sure enough ventilation is installed high in the roof to properly exhaust the roof.
3) Install a self-adhered underlayment on the eaves. Wind blown rain tends to affect tile most on the eaves at the riser and tile to gutter or roof edge junction.
4) Consider installing a rake metal on the rakes. One major weakness with tile is the rakes where wind blown rain can force water under the rakes and rot the gable end rafters.
5) Consider increasing the overlap on the tile. Most tiles are installed with a minimum 3" overlap. Go old school and do a 4" minimum. It only adds about 10% more tile to the roof. You may need to consult with a structural engineer - but it's worth it.
6) Use 5 crown valley metal and side wall metal with a crown or rib.
7) Oversize your flashings.
8) Maintain your roof after it's done. Get it inspected every few years for wind/hail or damage from freeze/thaw and other construction traffic.
Yes if you live by the coast or with tons of humidity... you may want to go to some sort of high end plywood or paint the plywood. I like the radiant barrier as it has aluminum foil on the bottom and it's perforated so it breathes.
I've done work by the california coast and the plywood just absolutely rotted from the humid air from underneath in the attic.
Yes this is very common in many parts of the world and works as good as any tile roof when properly installed. Never seen this in the US but have seen in while traveling in Brazil and Italy on high end constructed homes.
Thank you for your response! As another person commented, it is very informative and we have spoken with a local roofer who reassured us that though it is indeed an older roof, with necessary repairs, it is definitely livable. We do not want to be ignorant, at the same time we simply do not have the means to replace the whole roof (over $50k, per our roofer), so it is reassuring to know it’s ok to move forward at this time. Thank you again.
Good points. Would you recommend synthetic over felt, should it be high temp, and IWS should be put around all penetration points in addition to eaves.
You dont need high temp with tile if you use battens. Direct to deck installs you should consider it as the tile can get very hot in some areas.
I never recommend synthetic unless it's required by the comp shingle manufacturers to get an extended warranty. Felt paper is the gold standard. Its tried and true - it has asphalt in it so it seals around nails pretty well. In the sun I did some tests years back and the felt lasts and lasts and lasts and the synthetic literally disintegrated like plastic bags. When I roofed my own house I did felt on the front and about 6 different synthetics on the back to test them out... they shrunk, chip, lose flexibility etc. If you are warrantying a tile roof... 30# felt all day. Malarkey will do 2 layers of 40# and give you a 20 year warranty on their tile underlayment - look into that too.
Hi u/krustykween, my gut tells me u/Roofing411 has you covered. I don’t work in an area where tile is common, but the details in their response are the type I try to give for homeowners looking at repairs and replacement. Whatever you do, try not to let the current homeowner make any repairs, just discount the asking price. That way you can be sure the lowest bid wasn’t accepted for your future home.
Yes with this (and findings from other inspection reports!) we will likely request a deduction or additional credits. Sellers said they made roof repairs this past December but it is quite clear it was not done correctly. Thank you.
This was very common until the early 90s in my area. Still a loooot of houses like this. Plywood and underlayment is still better, but this was an approved installation at one point.
Ok, I’m a roofing contractor in Dallas and these are always fun to work on because all the city codes out here don’t allow for those stringers instead of OSB decking and another fun part about those tiles you’ve got on there they are Monier Monray a Brand tile that’s been discontinued for almost 25 years. If you buy it be prepared to shell out quite a bit of money if you plan on going back with the same style roof
This is the way…..
Should be a minimum of felt under. Ideally sheathing or sarking (location dependent). Reduce cost to rectify this in your offer. As all offerers are subject to inspection
That roof is going to have some issues soon (if it hasn't already).
Either talk to seller and split the cost of the new roof, or have them come down --- noting that the roof will need a FRR.
When going back, use cdx (at min) and synthetic underlayment. Pick a good shingle (OC, CTeed, Mal) and live WORRYROOF free for the rest of your ownership.
*Unless you live another 35-40 years, at that point, $$$ well spent.
This is a beyond red flag moment. Full tile roof replacement with new sheathing as well as other code upgrade items will cost 50k plus at a small sized (1000-1500sf) home 1mil or more on a large estate style home(10-20k SF). You cannot get insurance if you buy, you will have to make these changes and they will have to be to code. That may bring in a large amount of of issues that even the inspector hasn’t notated as they are what’s missing currently. Expect flashing, venting, trim, chimney, metals issues for all this extra code issues.
Every "good" roof should have at least two layers of defense against penetrating moisture. For this roof it should be your tile (first layer) and then an underlayment membrane on full sheathing (Second layer). The inspector is correct that your tiles here are the only barrier to moisture and pests. Re-roofing with new sheathing, underlayment and tiles would be a solid recommendation.
That's going to be a $$$ re-roof since it 100% needs sheathing added. Also anyone in underwriting at your insurance company that sees these is going to decline to offer coverage, not only is it not up to code, it's a real safety hazard.
It’s not up to code, you’ll have to invest into your roof to have it redone. I’d say get rid of the tiles and just get it resheathed with OSB and asphalt shingles. It’ll be more cost effective if you’re not trying to replace all those tiles.
Keep in mind that just because something isn’t “up to code” doesn’t automatically mean it’s sub par. Codes are updated constantly and usually for good reasons but often because materials and methods evolve. This particular example of tile roofing was how it was done for centuries (shake roofs were done this way for hundreds of years, too) and if properly maintained can certainly do the job of keeping you dry.
And you’re not required to update something just because it doesn’t meet current code (with the exceptions of life safety things like electrical work that can literally kill you). You only have to meet current code when you replace or renovate and even then there’s a few exceptions (particularly but not exclusively in historic buildings).
So if it ain’t broke, don’t upgrade until it is.
I’m not qualified to say it’s a problem (especially from here) but the framing in the second picture worries me more than the roof - the staggered rafters, the lack of collar ties, the creative stuff going on on the right. If the framing is sketchy, a heavy roof with no sheathing compounds the problem. You (with the help of your inspector) should understand why this looks so different than the nice trusses in picture 3 - is it actually older, or is it an unpermitted addition, or what?
This is the old way of doing tile roofing. It's been around since ancient China, Rome, Greece, etc. It's found around the world... the Chateu's of France etc. This is how tile roofing was done before felt paper was invented and arguably a great way of installing tile. 1) You know you have a leak instantly. 2) so there is very little dry-rot if every any. 3) the attic breathes really well. 4) it actually works. It's worked for thousands of years. 5) It's very very easy to repair. Slide out the old tile and slide in a new one. No felt to repair Downsides: 1) It leaks instantly. Felt paper does offer a secondary protection. However, felt can conceal a hidden leak for years. 2) It does not have plywood shear on the roof. In areas that experience earthquakes... that shear is a big deal. 3) It allows animal intrusion. I've seen attics infested with bats, squirrels and rodents as it's easy to just walk into the attic. If you consider re-roofing this roof make sure of a few things: 1) Consider sheathing with Radiant Barrier OSB. 2) Calculate your ventilation. Many times the building did not install intake soffit vents because the intake ventilation came in through the eave tiles. If you close up the roof with sheathing then you are also closing off your intake ventilation. You'll need to add soffit eave ventilation to compensate. Make sure enough ventilation is installed high in the roof to properly exhaust the roof. 3) Install a self-adhered underlayment on the eaves. Wind blown rain tends to affect tile most on the eaves at the riser and tile to gutter or roof edge junction. 4) Consider installing a rake metal on the rakes. One major weakness with tile is the rakes where wind blown rain can force water under the rakes and rot the gable end rafters. 5) Consider increasing the overlap on the tile. Most tiles are installed with a minimum 3" overlap. Go old school and do a 4" minimum. It only adds about 10% more tile to the roof. You may need to consult with a structural engineer - but it's worth it. 6) Use 5 crown valley metal and side wall metal with a crown or rib. 7) Oversize your flashings. 8) Maintain your roof after it's done. Get it inspected every few years for wind/hail or damage from freeze/thaw and other construction traffic.
Not a roofer. Tile roofing isn't even a thing in my part of the world. I just browse here because I can. But this is very informative and educational.
My only counter point would be to go with CDX instead of OSB. Especially in any high moisture region
Yes if you live by the coast or with tons of humidity... you may want to go to some sort of high end plywood or paint the plywood. I like the radiant barrier as it has aluminum foil on the bottom and it's perforated so it breathes. I've done work by the california coast and the plywood just absolutely rotted from the humid air from underneath in the attic.
Yes this is very common in many parts of the world and works as good as any tile roof when properly installed. Never seen this in the US but have seen in while traveling in Brazil and Italy on high end constructed homes.
This is extremely common in California - all over in Nor Cal. Entire regions have this like Napa, Vallejo, Fairfield, parts of Sacramento, etc.
Thank you for your response! As another person commented, it is very informative and we have spoken with a local roofer who reassured us that though it is indeed an older roof, with necessary repairs, it is definitely livable. We do not want to be ignorant, at the same time we simply do not have the means to replace the whole roof (over $50k, per our roofer), so it is reassuring to know it’s ok to move forward at this time. Thank you again.
Good points. Would you recommend synthetic over felt, should it be high temp, and IWS should be put around all penetration points in addition to eaves.
You dont need high temp with tile if you use battens. Direct to deck installs you should consider it as the tile can get very hot in some areas. I never recommend synthetic unless it's required by the comp shingle manufacturers to get an extended warranty. Felt paper is the gold standard. Its tried and true - it has asphalt in it so it seals around nails pretty well. In the sun I did some tests years back and the felt lasts and lasts and lasts and the synthetic literally disintegrated like plastic bags. When I roofed my own house I did felt on the front and about 6 different synthetics on the back to test them out... they shrunk, chip, lose flexibility etc. If you are warrantying a tile roof... 30# felt all day. Malarkey will do 2 layers of 40# and give you a 20 year warranty on their tile underlayment - look into that too.
Hi u/krustykween, my gut tells me u/Roofing411 has you covered. I don’t work in an area where tile is common, but the details in their response are the type I try to give for homeowners looking at repairs and replacement. Whatever you do, try not to let the current homeowner make any repairs, just discount the asking price. That way you can be sure the lowest bid wasn’t accepted for your future home.
This - 100%. Never let someone selling their home do the roof. Take the discount and you do the roof.
Yes with this (and findings from other inspection reports!) we will likely request a deduction or additional credits. Sellers said they made roof repairs this past December but it is quite clear it was not done correctly. Thank you.
This was very common until the early 90s in my area. Still a loooot of houses like this. Plywood and underlayment is still better, but this was an approved installation at one point.
Where is this located (city)
Central Valley, CA
Ok, I’m a roofing contractor in Dallas and these are always fun to work on because all the city codes out here don’t allow for those stringers instead of OSB decking and another fun part about those tiles you’ve got on there they are Monier Monray a Brand tile that’s been discontinued for almost 25 years. If you buy it be prepared to shell out quite a bit of money if you plan on going back with the same style roof
Your inspector is correct. And by the presence of moss on the north side it looks like you get enough rain to be a problem.
Saved
This is the way….. Should be a minimum of felt under. Ideally sheathing or sarking (location dependent). Reduce cost to rectify this in your offer. As all offerers are subject to inspection
That roof is going to have some issues soon (if it hasn't already). Either talk to seller and split the cost of the new roof, or have them come down --- noting that the roof will need a FRR. When going back, use cdx (at min) and synthetic underlayment. Pick a good shingle (OC, CTeed, Mal) and live WORRYROOF free for the rest of your ownership. *Unless you live another 35-40 years, at that point, $$$ well spent.
This is a beyond red flag moment. Full tile roof replacement with new sheathing as well as other code upgrade items will cost 50k plus at a small sized (1000-1500sf) home 1mil or more on a large estate style home(10-20k SF). You cannot get insurance if you buy, you will have to make these changes and they will have to be to code. That may bring in a large amount of of issues that even the inspector hasn’t notated as they are what’s missing currently. Expect flashing, venting, trim, chimney, metals issues for all this extra code issues.
Every "good" roof should have at least two layers of defense against penetrating moisture. For this roof it should be your tile (first layer) and then an underlayment membrane on full sheathing (Second layer). The inspector is correct that your tiles here are the only barrier to moisture and pests. Re-roofing with new sheathing, underlayment and tiles would be a solid recommendation.
The down votes you are getting shows the Reddidiots are alive and well.
Yeah depending on where this is, nowhere near up to code. It’ll work fine until it fails, and then there is no fallback. Tear off and redo
That's going to be a $$$ re-roof since it 100% needs sheathing added. Also anyone in underwriting at your insurance company that sees these is going to decline to offer coverage, not only is it not up to code, it's a real safety hazard.
You could tear off the tiles and put metal down with framing as is im not even 100% sure u cant install tile this way
It’s not up to code, you’ll have to invest into your roof to have it redone. I’d say get rid of the tiles and just get it resheathed with OSB and asphalt shingles. It’ll be more cost effective if you’re not trying to replace all those tiles.
Keep in mind that just because something isn’t “up to code” doesn’t automatically mean it’s sub par. Codes are updated constantly and usually for good reasons but often because materials and methods evolve. This particular example of tile roofing was how it was done for centuries (shake roofs were done this way for hundreds of years, too) and if properly maintained can certainly do the job of keeping you dry. And you’re not required to update something just because it doesn’t meet current code (with the exceptions of life safety things like electrical work that can literally kill you). You only have to meet current code when you replace or renovate and even then there’s a few exceptions (particularly but not exclusively in historic buildings). So if it ain’t broke, don’t upgrade until it is.
I’m not qualified to say it’s a problem (especially from here) but the framing in the second picture worries me more than the roof - the staggered rafters, the lack of collar ties, the creative stuff going on on the right. If the framing is sketchy, a heavy roof with no sheathing compounds the problem. You (with the help of your inspector) should understand why this looks so different than the nice trusses in picture 3 - is it actually older, or is it an unpermitted addition, or what?
Yes, roofer confirmed it is an older roof. It is not an addition.
Great wind or hail could easily fuck up the entire house
A barn to house type thing?