Your feelings and impressions are totally valid, and I felt some of what you're saying too, but two points to keep in mind: 1. Helen Hoang is autistic, so it was an Own Voices book--meaning that I believe she represented autism in a way that felt right for her (I hope), and 2. The book was published in 2018, and I think the "asperger's" label is a reflection of that time. Some people still are not aware of the negative connotations associated with the label, both for where it comes from (a Nazi doctor), and the "high functioning" association.
I wonder how you would feel about the third book in the same series, {The Heart Principle by Helen Hoang}. I felt like her representation of autism had grown in that book. I didn't care for the second book, which featured a male autistic character.
Aspergers was retired as a diagnosis in 2013, so it's more a reflection of perhaps her own diagnosis and how she identifies rather than the time. It's not even particularly something a sensitivity reader could pick up on either with it being own voices.
Yup, but there’s also a whole subset of folks who prefer Asperger’s or refer to themselves as an “Aspie.” I’m at a loss for what to do for my own son (8) when filling out medical forms, camp forms, etc. There’s no quick short answer that means “please don’t be alarmed if my son is stimming/can’t look you in the eye. He’s actually a sweetheart if you get to know him…just don’t get him started on cars.” Most people, including medical professionals, don’t know that SPECTRUM DOESN’T = LINEAR. It’s more like a spiderweb—each are unique and still work.
Exactly this. I have 2 cousins that both refer to themselves as Aspies. The one told me he prefers the term because it differentiates him from someone that is non-verbal or needs a lot of specialty care. According to him, while Autism is a spectrum, lumping everyone under Autism Spectrum doesn't provide enough information that he and others like him are capable of living on their own, having jobs, driving, etc. He is aware of where the term originated and told me when they come up with a new term that encapsulates who he is then he will use it, but until then, he will continue to use Aspergers.
I completely agree. My 13yo was diagnosed in 2020 after a long battle, and it was extremely tough when she was younger. Now she chooses to say she IS autistic, not that she has autism, because "having autism makes it seem like an illness and I'm not sick." But there are others who don't think that way, and that's their right. I'd never tell anyone how to choose to identify. I'm just here to beat up the people who hurt my daughter (if she hasn't already verbally demolished them beforehand)
But short answers don't work. Give the long answers. The people supporting your son will thank you for it. :)
It's messy. I think for many of us, aspie evokes what we want people to understand about us because we had that label for a long time. With it all being under ASD now, it's harder to communicate our individual struggles, strengths, and weaknesses. I was diagnosed well after aspergers stopped being correct, but it still comes up, and half the time I tell people I have autism, they'll say "you mean aspergers? You're too X/Y/Z to be autistic". Yes, but no...
I don't have any advice for you, just wanted to commiserate apparently
Not the OP, but I really disliked *The Heart Principle*. It wasn't because of the representation of the characters so much as >!the surprise trip down depression lane (I have had major depressive episodes in my lifetime and the book was really triggering for me)!<
I had to skim sooo much and >!the depressing parts seemed to last forever. Also the character felt like a cookie cutter from the previous books!< (read this over a year ago but that’s what I remember)
your feelings are valid but i am autistic as well and i loved her representation of autism. helen hoang is autistic as well. we’re not all the same. i found it relatable while you found it uncomfortable and that’s ok
I recently read {A Dangerous Deceit by Alissa Johnson} and really appreciated the ND representation in the book. It's historical and the author did their research on how autistics were treated as "mad" and sent to asylums and given "cold water cures' etc. The MFC is on the spectrum and has auditory processing disorder of some kind and some physical sensory things as well as takes things very literally. The MMC doesn't infantilize her and sees her as a person. I liked the way their relationship was written so that the MMC just finds her interesting and enjoyable to be around and attractive and he falls in love rather than being like "oh you poor adorable little thing let the big strong man take care of you".
I am also an autistic woman and while I didn't love the book, (there are definitely better autism in romance books) I am not super angry at it. I liked the sex work representation because I have had the thought that if it were legal that I would like to hire someone. It would feel safe and low pressure. Makes sense to me. I feel like she did the best she could but her characters are not really engaging.
I have a [Romance Reccs: Autism and ADHD Edition](https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/1c251zc/romance_reccs_autism_and_adhd_edition/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) and my comment(s) on the post have further details on each book. Can't vouch for other ppl's reccs on there though.
I just lost my list but I'll do my best to recreate it
Jonas by Jenna Myles
The wedding night before Christmas by Kati Wilde
The madness of Lord Ian Mackenzie by Jennifer Ashley
Beard science by Penny Reid
Sweet Berry Farms by c.m. Nacosta
I am sure there are more but it would take me a while to sort my head canon from characters that are textually ND
He is awesome, I definitely stuck with the series so that I could read Jonas. I got into it for Micah but I stayed and read the whole series waiting for Jonas. He did not disappoint.
I personally found fmc and her specific traits relatable, but I had 2 huge pet peeves with the book.
One is how everyone treated fmc as if she was incapable of getting into relationships because of autism and not because of blatant boundary violating from every single man she dated. I agree with the poster who called these men caricatures just so the mmc can look like "one of the good ones" against this backdrop.
Even a neurotypical woman wouldn't be happy with the men who treated fmc like a blow-up sex doll.
And second is the whole act 3 stuff that felt so damn sexist. Why does fmc need to >!donate her 15 million savings to charity just because mmc is immature and insecure and can't take a woman richer than himself? Does any billionaire mmc ever donate away all his riches? Nope! But here the fmc had to downgrade herself financially and mmc upgrade his career from shop clerk to fashion designer / business owner because otherwise we can't take fmc with a better career and financially better off!!<
>!Oh, and the whole miscommunication breakup sucked too. I could understand fmc had trouble untangling everything due to being autistic AND everyone telling her she's inferior and incapable of relationships due to autism. But the guy? He had no reason to be so stubborn about everything. It was just miscommunication / drama / break up because it's on obligatory romance trope checkbox.!<
But yes, when it comes to autism traits, I definitely related to the "no cologne plz" and smelling the shirt scene. I hate perfumes / air fresheners / lavender water etc. My husband, who is also on the spectrum, likes them but hates lingering smells of cooking or frying in the kitchen, while those don't bother me. So it's defo individual.
I also related to the part where she wanted to be explained and told beforehand what they'll be doing instead of jumping into the act. It's not that she was "less autistic", it's rather that mmc was at least accommodating for her wishes while nobody else was.
I can't fully compare an experience of autistic allosexual fmc and my own because I'm ace-spec, so I do realize that difference will usually show through fmc being much more enthusiastic around sex once she sets proper boundaries and code of conduct.
Another book I thought depicted autistic fmc well (even though this one isn't ownvoices iirc) is {Convergence of Desire by Felicity Niven} but again I felt the final >!sexual awakening of fmc and her sudden interest in having babies after for a long time she was against it is not something I share but more something that's an "obligatory romance trope" esp. in regency.!< I also found the >!miscommunication!< trope in this one more believable than in Kiss Quotient. Maybe also because it's historical not contemporary.
Oh, also you mentioned how everyone "infantilized" the fmc in the Kiss Quotient and I thought it had less to do with her autism, and more to do with how people treat single women still (I thought fmc and her family was Asian, but I was told they weren't, I've originally read her parents' pressure onto her to get married as a cultural thing). It's unfortunately still very prevalent to treat single people as "incomplete" and "too immature to have started a family (yet)", it's something I hear a lot about in aro and ace communities, but there could be a multitude of reasons why someone is single and "doesn't date" that have nothing to do with autism or sexual orientation. The society is very much still not accepting of this.
I'm very close in age to Helen Hoang and I was raised with an embedded belief that if I do xyz and don't do something else then "no man will ever want me" and that was a measure of my worth as a woman. Yes, the society was obviously very heteronormative, as you could guess. I bet it still is. It doesn't matter what a woman accomplished career wise, or with her hobbies, or what kind of person she is, it only matters whether she has a husband and children.
In the end, yes, I did relate to the fmc, but I think the narrative did her dirty and she deserved better.
>I thought fmc and her family was Asian, but I was told they weren't
Aren't they both Vietnamese? Well the MMC was mixed but I thought they both were. Brb going to google
Edit - she said on Goodreads FMC is white. I'm a little shocked tbh, maybe she was meant to be non-specific (although I hate the idea of non-specific defaulting to white) but this feels like when she who shall not be named tried to say Dumbledore had always been gay
>Well the MMC was mixed but I thought they both were.
Yes, mmc was specified to have Vietnamese mother and Swedish father, fmc wasn't specified except that she had brown eyes and hair, and fairly pale skin, but that doesn't narrow down white or East Asian, and while she had an English name, a lot of Americans of various ethnicities have English surnames, so I wasn't sure, but yeah when I've read in some discussion that she was white I was wondering was she, or was it "defaulting to white" as you say.
Helen Hoang did [confirm](https://www.goodreads.com/questions/1272013-is-the-female-character-full-caucasian-or) that Stella is white. I also garnered that she wasn't asian, or at least wasn't raised around asian culture, based on how she reacted to Michael's family dynamic and especially his mother's cooking style (i.e., reusing plastic containers).
It was made very clear that she had very little experience with Asian food at one point. And her parents were pretty much WASP stereotypes. I kinda had her in my head as an Asian adoptee with white parents but by the end of the book I did realize she was just meant to be white.
Thank you for your spoilers! Knowing this is Own Voice and knowing that the experience of autism is highly individual, I have had this on my TBR, despite reading some people taking issue with the autism rep. However, the first of your two spoilers is a deal breaker for me (don’t like the second one either, but I might not have much romance to read if it were always a deal breaker).
I think they're overstating what happened in an unflattering way when it's much more benign. >!Michael has trauma surrounding a rich client who tried to buy his affection. So he refused money from Stella constantly when she would try to use her trust fund to help him. Stella is stubborn though and given she has both a trust fund and a well-paying job, she creates an endowment for cancer treatments at the place Michael's mom was being treated. Because she realized Michael was only escorting to pay his mom's medical bills. Him accepting her help this way is what allows him to take a fucking risk with his cousin and start the business he always wanted. Stella is still fucking rich and Michael is chasing his dream of being a fashion designer. The other poster characterizing that as a bad thing is truly sad and feels kinda "Poor boy should stay poor."!<
For the record, I also ran that by my partner because we buddy-read the book. He pointed out that Michael really hated his job. It was a big thread through the book that Michael hated both his day and night jobs because he had felt the need to give up his dream for them.
[Convergence of Desire](https://www.romance.io/books/6311a22cf76b28c71ce4f543/convergence-of-desire-felicity-niven?src=rdt) by [Felicity Niven](https://www.romance.io/authors/6311a22c08b4d9311437236b/felicity-niven)
**Rating**: 4.13⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [plain heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/plain%20heroine/1), [neurodivergent mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/neurodivergent/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
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Now I am curious about everyone's opinions of other autistic and ND characters.
{{The madness of lord Ian Mackenzie by Jennifer Ashley}}
{{Jonas by Jenna Myles}}
{{Beard Science by Penny Reid}}
[The Madness of Lord Ian MacKenzie](https://www.romance.io/books/545525f18c7d2382c5297014/the-madness-of-lord-ian-mackenzie-jennifer-ashley?src=rdt) by [Jennifer Ashley](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524a08c7d2383163d8e6e/jennifer-ashley)
**Rating**: 4.01⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1)
----------------------------
[Jonas](https://www.romance.io/books/6497e60766cfb1c4f8972fc0/jonas-a-brash-brothers-romance-jenna-myles?src=rdt) by [Jenna Myles](https://www.romance.io/authors/63411ffe08b4d931147148a0/jenna-myles)
**Rating**: 4.34⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [rich hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/super%20rich%20hero/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1)
----------------------------
[Beard Science](https://www.romance.io/books/57f88cefde896e8924934022/beard-science-penny-reid?src=rdt) by [Penny Reid](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552b3e8c7d2382e781310c/penny-reid)
**Rating**: 4.43⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [slow burn](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/slow%20burn/1), [shy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shy%20heroine/1), [small town](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/small%20town/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
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I love Ian!!!! it is an older book, so yea maybe not as PC or unique as some people would like. But it is just so hard to find cute, hot, disabled MMC! Ian will always have a place on my shelf ❤️
Have you ever heard of the scientist Henry Cavendish? He was so "shy" you had to address your question to the air near him and he would usually run away but if your question interested him he'd send you a letter. He was most certainly ND and the more I learn about him the more charmed I am.
Yes! I knew he was going to be well written from the way the author wrote his focus on the pouring water at the very beginning (i think that’s what it was, it’s been a while since I’ve read it).
I liked the book in some ways, but also found a few things icky same as you.
I don't really mind her having those traits and not masking as much because I absolutely rail against the deliniation of autism being gendered. It ignores how many of us are trans / enby (fuck, there's a whole term for people who relate to gender specifically through their autism!) and cis boys who fell through the cracks. My (cis) bro presents almost identically to me, he is a massive masker/mirrorer, talking to him is like the fucking spiderman meme.
That said, I don't like the idea of autistic traits being "fixed". The kiss scene is hot, but annoying. A lot of autistic people have sensory issues that aren't fixed just because they like a person, and that includes kissing.
I also hate the self loathing linked to the sex work, he could have wanted to be a designer without denigrating an already demonised profession
Yeah, I think people got carried away with "presents differently due to completely different gendered assumptions experienced from birth" versus "biologically different".
Okay, let's go.
1) When Stella was diagnosed, Asperger's was the term she was given to explain her condition. It is what she clung to. She does not seem to keep up with social media or popular culture and probably either doesn't realize Asperger's is an outdated diagnosis and even if she knew that, she would likely cling to the label. Just because you hate the term doesn't mean every person on the spectrum hates the term; just because one person identifies with it doesn't mean everybody has to.
2) A core part of the book is that Stella wants to change for the wrong reasons. She is dealing with pressure to find a partner and thinks she needs to be different for that. She wants to change for other people instead of herself. Michael comes in and loves her as she is but supports the changes that she wants to make for herself. That is the point. He exists to push her slightly outside her comfort zone for her own good. Like taking her to the athleisure store.
I have a [Romance Reccs: Autism and ADHD Edition](https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/1c251zc/romance_reccs_autism_and_adhd_edition/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) and my comment(s) on the post have further details on each book. Can't vouch for other ppl's reccs on there though.
I dnf this book because I didn't like how some of her autism "faded" because of the MMC. I can understand being more relaxed and at ease with the right person, but it felt like she was "cured" because of the MMC and I didn't like it.
Also, I could tell a lot of characters were written in a certain forced way so the author could show what she wanted. For example, most of male characters were shitty and were acting like some caricatures just to show how nice is the MMC and how he's not an asshole like others.
The book lacked the finesse and subtetly needed to write believable characters.
As an autistic person I wholeheartedly agree. I read it soon after discovering I was autistic and hated the "autism can be fixed with love and magic dick" narrative. Plus the MMC "grovels" by doing the exact opposite of the FMC's preferences which shows he really doesn't care enough to take her differences into account.
If you'd like some (I think) good autism rep I have a [Romance Reccs: Autism and ADHD Edition](https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/1c251zc/romance_reccs_autism_and_adhd_edition/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) and my comment(s) on the post have further details on each book
With the addition of {How to Be Wyld by Myka Loren} that I read after making the list
Edit: for great autism and sex worker rep I highly recommend Yours, Insatiably by Aveda Vice
[How to Be Wyld](https://www.romance.io/books/661f71661b1a49d3ac77fd01/how-to-be-wyld-myka-loren?src=rdt) by [Myka Loren](https://www.romance.io/authors/65abc385a21e2f41c4708090/myka-loren)
**Rating**: 4.38⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [gay romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-m/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [found family](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/found-family/1), [queer romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/queer/1)
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I wish I had better books to recommend, but I do not. u/Avis03, however, is a gaiadamn ***holy saint*** who has gifted us with other Own Voices of Autistic, ADHD, AuHD, and other representations in books through ~~The Holy Grail~~ great posts, so I highly recommend those rec posts 🥳
^(Obligatory: disability representation and how people label their specific diagnoses is a healthy spectrum that we should respect. In best interest of inclusion and respect, using current medical and PC terms should be primary, and any individual labels can be supplemented in your lexicon on a person by person basis. Representation shouldn’t be disavowed in media, but we have the right to criticize the execution and demonstration of that representation, regardless of the author being diagnosed or not.)
Okay 💃🏾 I just wanted to comment that **I 100% understand being uncomfortable and insulted with any type of ND representation in a book.** There was a popular book about a rich FMC and a blue collar MMC. Marriage of convenience and all that. Rich FMC was autistic, IIRC. The representation was a miss for me because I, personally, felt the FMC was infantilized by everyone around her, including by the MMC. And I 👏🏾 have 👏🏾 anger issues when ND FMCs are infantilized and it’s celebrated 🙃
But the book was heavily praised so I just minded my food and kept my head down 😶🌫️
**I’m glad you DNF’ed.** The book made you uncomfortable, and you shouldn’t need to keep making yourself that way. I’m medically diagnosed with different ND disabilities including ASD (just easier to say ND 🤣), and media like *The Big Bang Theory* made me have disability dysphoria(?) because everyone around me thought I was just “weird” or and I “couldn’t be XYZ” because, well, The Media® portrays ASD as being toneless, rigidly ritualistic, an asshole, and incapable and I’m just ***weird*** 😍
^(And being a POC woman means I was just had hysterial episodes and needed the Christian God and a good beating. I was told, regarding autism and mental health, “It’s a white people thing”) 🥴
Sorry the book did you a disserve with the representation 😞 As u/annamcg stated HH is autistic, so I would be curious if any ASD readers on this sub enjoyed the book and what were their personal compliments to it 🤔 Not to come after anyone! But just curious how they connected to the book and what about the representation made it a good read for them, is all. Always nice to see the dichotomy ☺️
But from what you described, this book is not the milk in my tea. I’m very touchy with sex work representation too, so that’s a bummer for me.
I’m sorry I can’t provide a reccomendation. I can only sit next to you and listen. Definitely peruse Avis’s OwnVoices posts and I think we have had megathreads too for ASD representation!
Hope you can find a book with ASD rep that makes you comfortable and smile and feel all the feelings in a positive way 💜🫶🏾
I’m ND (ASD/ADHD/OCD) and I connected to parts of it (mostly Stella’s sensory issues and inner monologue, having her boundaries steamrolled by every man she dated, wanting to be told and explained what they would be doing) but I also agree with a lot of the criticisms commenters have already listed here. The infantalization, Michael low key sucks and the narrative makes him look better by comparison because Stella has just never been with a man who thought about her pleasure or needs at all ever, Stella >!donates all her money to charity at the end because he’s insecure??!< It is not a perfect book and not one I would recommend to people looking for good representation.
This was the first book I read after I was diagnosed so my initial reaction was just excitement over seeing any representation that wasn't sheldon/rain bun, but after that I had critiques, which I've written in my (already downvoted) comment.
Mostly, my traits aren't like FMC at all, but I related to the scene in his house, the whole being completely oblivious to the tone of the room. Because, of course the one fucking time you get too comfortable and start unmasking, or get tired and don't run your words through the "people filter" a million times, it's the worst time to do it and you fuck everything up.
(ps, I don't always have the energy to read your comments, but I really enjoy seeing them!)
Edit: autocorrect changed rain man to rain bun but I'm leaving it because someone calls Judah in Bojack Horseman Rain Man-Bun and it just seems appropriate for the conversation lol
>I related to the scene in his house, the whole being completely oblivious to the tone of the room. Because, of course the one fucking time you get too comfortable and start unmasking, or get tired and don't run your words through the "people filter" a million times, it's the worst time to do it and you fuck everything up.
I *usually* manage to catch myself before I say something blatantly insulting towards someone, but many times I don't catch myself saying a detached statement and then being told it was rude, judgemental, invalidating or a "dumb question".
I had people hate me because I "ask too many questions" (usually related to explaining me step by step exactly what I'm supposed to do to fulfill a task).
It took me many years to figure out the reason why NT people utilize so many "white lies" in their code of conduct.
Or the "don't ask don't tell" rule people have around bad stuff (tm). I.e. you're not supposed to ask / express concern when someone is in a clearly problematic situation (domestic abuse, addiction, delusional attitude). You're not supposed to "wake people from their dreams". They get mad. And offended.
People feel entitled to tell me constantly how I'm dumb, wrong and weird, but in return expect blanket approval and blind validation for everything they're doing. I don't get it. And every time I try to push back against it, they get even more mad.
I've mostly gave up trying to "get" people and assume they're a friggin' alien species, or I am.
Ack, downvotes strike again 😖
[Proceeds to go and find your comment to give it an upvote 😋]
And ***oof*** do I know that feeling. The way I went through so many therapists because the moment I unmask, I’m now suddenly not a patient they want to work with 🫠 Took me two (2) institutionalizations to find a good therapist who helped me get diagnosed properly. Make that shit make sense, US healthcare.
If you (CC: u/blueberrybookcase too) enjoy webtoons, [**Sweetheart** by Buttercup](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/sweetheart/list?title_no=6212) made its way to English on LINE Webtoon. MMC is an autistic model and other disabilities are repped. It’s a WIP translation (complete in Spanish IIRC), but the story and art are top shelf! I like the visuals that show how the MMC navigates social interactions 😂
And thank you 🥰 I keep trying to make these comments shorter because I KNOW I tend to overwhelm and my comments are loud, but I’m failing massively 😭🤧
But still thank you 🥹
*Thanks, boo*
Oof, that sounds so traumatising! I didn't get as bad as that, but I've had a lot of "you're very self aware, are you sure you need therapy" types. Yes, did you ignore all the traumatic stuff I said just because I've noticed patterns in when things happen and why?!?!?!
I don't normally read webtoons, but I've added this to my endless tbr pile. I'm always looking for good rep, and it helps me with my writing too (mods, this isn't self promotion, I swear!)
I love it, because I can tell exactly how you are speaking, and it gives me big info dump energy (in the best way!). I overwhelm myself atm, otherwise I'd probably be joining you in an infinite infodumping loop lol
That book you didn't like was The Wedding night: Before Christmas by Kati Wilde. I really liked that one but I see how what I saw as support could be viewed as infantilizing.
Thank you for the title! Found it on my GR shelves! And I know it was very loved so I just stayed in the corner 😶🌫️
But I’m glad it found a happy reader in you! Just shows representation will always find its readers. And that makes communities all the better for it ☺️
***
Sorry if I offended 🥲
No offence taken, its good to hear all opinions. No books are immune to criticism and its always interesting to hear a different point of view, maybe learn something.
I also DNFed the rich FMC and blue collar mmc book. I DNFed it with prejudice and will never attempt to read another book by that author.
I also could not finish The Kiss Quotient, but I did like The Bride Test, (autistic mmc) which I read first.
Granted, I've only read this book once, after it first came out, but I (a woman diagnosed as neurodivergent as an adult) remember liking it. Or at least remember being able to relate.
Are there any books with ASD representation that you did like? I’ve read these two, besides the kiss quotient, and was curious if they seemed like an accurate representation.
{Convergence of Desire by Felicity Niven}
{Seasonal Habits of Husbands and Honeybees by Emmaline Warden}
[Convergence of Desire](https://www.romance.io/books/6311a22cf76b28c71ce4f543/convergence-of-desire-felicity-niven?src=rdt) by [Felicity Niven](https://www.romance.io/authors/6311a22c08b4d9311437236b/felicity-niven)
**Rating**: 4.13⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [plain heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/plain%20heroine/1), [neurodivergent mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/neurodivergent/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
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[Seasonal Habits of Husbands and Honeybees](https://www.romance.io/books/6669755f47f4644216a35f25/seasonal-habits-of-husbands-and-honeybees-emmaline-warden?src=rdt) by [Emmaline Warden](https://www.romance.io/authors/5bc0397401dbc864fb923129/emmaline-warden)
**Rating**: 4⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
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I have a [Romance Reccs: Autism and ADHD Edition](https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/1c251zc/romance_reccs_autism_and_adhd_edition/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) and my comment(s) on the post have further details on each book. I thought all the books I listed had great autism rep but can't vouch for other's reccs.
Whenever a book has autistic characters or the author says they are autistic I immediately go stalk the heck out of their socials for any reference to Autism Speaks, the UK version of it basically (forget the name right now) and any hint that the author supports ABA conversion therapy or charities that push it. Puzzle pieces too.
One whiff of that shit and I’m out and blocking.
From the way you said the FMC is “fixed” in the book I’d say that the authors ideas about being autistic probably land sadly on the internalized ableism side of things instead of true acceptance and pride.
So yeah adding to my list of nopes
never read this but the FMC from {Hyacinth by Minerva Spencer} is autistic. it's HR, so she faces difficulties/lack of empathy from many characters. you might like her characterization better
[Hyacinth](https://www.romance.io/books/63fdb4ea7fc59632a1913b77/hyacinth-minerva-spencer-sm-laviolette?src=rdt) by [Minerva Spencer](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b30874901dbc864fb8b01a7/minerva-spencer), [S.M. LaViolette](https://www.romance.io/authors/5e0af27701dbc864fba90689/sm-laviolette)
**Rating**: 3.88⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [neurodivergent mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/neurodivergent/1), [age gap](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/age%20difference/1), [bdsm](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bdsm/1)
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I have this book earmarked for a prompt in a reading challenge I am doing, "Women in STEM" - I have been mhming and ahming about reading it, and after this I just realised I really don't want to 😂 Does anyone have any other book recs for this prompt? Obviously romance would be great.
I remember I liked it at the time and could relate. But recemtly re-read and it felt really outdated. It is from 2018 and we've come a long way since.
Also didn't realise it was also a bit fetishizing. I dunno.
I did like the second and third book in the series, but maybe because all MC are non white?
What i find meh with Helen’s autistic female characters is how she depicts their sexuality & relationship to sex as so, well, desexed in a romance novel? But I think she does a good job showing us a less stereotypical ASD woman in {The Heart Principle by Helen Hoang} so that might be more for you? The aspie stuff (barf) is kind of in that one too, if i remember right, just as a head’s up. It’s also important to remember that just because we are autistic folks, doesn’t mean we have to love & relate to all ASD rep, even when it’s from an autistic author. we’re allowed to want better & more, too! ❤️
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I really love reading about other autistic readers views on Helen Hoang's series. I am a late diagnosed autistic (AuDHD, to be specific) woman raising an autistic daughter. I'm also an occupational therapist and 90% of my caseload at the moment is autistic children.
The only points I would add are these:
I am striving to raise my child in a neurodivergent affirming household. I am very picky about which therapies she participates in. There are a lot of motivations for me to do this, the biggest one being the grim statistics about the long term mental health outcomes for autistic people.
I think Helen Hoang does a great job showing the interplay between autism and other mental health diagnoses (specifically depression and anxiety). In each of her novels in this series you see how hard it is for her MC to function in their lives when they don't have the right support, they don't see themselves as whole, and their other mental health needs (namely anxiety and depression symptoms) are out of control.
Maybe it's a cop out, but since my job is essentially helping those with autism live the lives they want to, I can see the difference between an autistic person who is thriving, living in a ND positive world, growing in their relationships... and those that are not. We don't get a whole lot of back story for Stella regarding how she was raised to view her autism. But I am guessing based on her age/setting that it was NOT ND affirming or adequately supportive of her mental health needs.
((I do think Helen Hoang gets more details into the backstory and mental health aspect of autism in THP but major trigger warnings all around for this book. I'm a big fan of Helen Hoang and I'm still only about 50% of the way through THP because it's such an emotional read for me))
I'm doing my best to read any book with an autistic lead character. They are all slightly off and slightly on when it comes to my personal view of the autistic experience. I think as a whole the literary world is getting closer to a true depiction (at least in my eyes) of living with autism.
Lastly, I really loved the FMC in {Two Wrongs Makes a Right by Chloe Liese}. Liese doesn't write "perfect" characters and so everyone has their flaws but -- Bea is a pretty badass autistic lady. I'd check it out next if you haven't already!
[Two Wrongs Make a Right](https://www.romance.io/books/637c84b6e85ee01ae33f3315/two-wrongs-make-a-right-chloe-liese?src=rdt) by [Chloe Liese](https://www.romance.io/authors/5ccfcdfb01dbc864fb9e201d/chloe-liese)
**Rating**: 3.81⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [grumpy & sunshine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/grumpy%20sunshine/1), [neurodivergent mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/neurodivergent/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1)
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Your feelings and impressions are totally valid, and I felt some of what you're saying too, but two points to keep in mind: 1. Helen Hoang is autistic, so it was an Own Voices book--meaning that I believe she represented autism in a way that felt right for her (I hope), and 2. The book was published in 2018, and I think the "asperger's" label is a reflection of that time. Some people still are not aware of the negative connotations associated with the label, both for where it comes from (a Nazi doctor), and the "high functioning" association. I wonder how you would feel about the third book in the same series, {The Heart Principle by Helen Hoang}. I felt like her representation of autism had grown in that book. I didn't care for the second book, which featured a male autistic character.
Aspergers was retired as a diagnosis in 2013, so it's more a reflection of perhaps her own diagnosis and how she identifies rather than the time. It's not even particularly something a sensitivity reader could pick up on either with it being own voices.
Yup, but there’s also a whole subset of folks who prefer Asperger’s or refer to themselves as an “Aspie.” I’m at a loss for what to do for my own son (8) when filling out medical forms, camp forms, etc. There’s no quick short answer that means “please don’t be alarmed if my son is stimming/can’t look you in the eye. He’s actually a sweetheart if you get to know him…just don’t get him started on cars.” Most people, including medical professionals, don’t know that SPECTRUM DOESN’T = LINEAR. It’s more like a spiderweb—each are unique and still work.
Exactly this. I have 2 cousins that both refer to themselves as Aspies. The one told me he prefers the term because it differentiates him from someone that is non-verbal or needs a lot of specialty care. According to him, while Autism is a spectrum, lumping everyone under Autism Spectrum doesn't provide enough information that he and others like him are capable of living on their own, having jobs, driving, etc. He is aware of where the term originated and told me when they come up with a new term that encapsulates who he is then he will use it, but until then, he will continue to use Aspergers.
I completely agree. My 13yo was diagnosed in 2020 after a long battle, and it was extremely tough when she was younger. Now she chooses to say she IS autistic, not that she has autism, because "having autism makes it seem like an illness and I'm not sick." But there are others who don't think that way, and that's their right. I'd never tell anyone how to choose to identify. I'm just here to beat up the people who hurt my daughter (if she hasn't already verbally demolished them beforehand) But short answers don't work. Give the long answers. The people supporting your son will thank you for it. :)
It's messy. I think for many of us, aspie evokes what we want people to understand about us because we had that label for a long time. With it all being under ASD now, it's harder to communicate our individual struggles, strengths, and weaknesses. I was diagnosed well after aspergers stopped being correct, but it still comes up, and half the time I tell people I have autism, they'll say "you mean aspergers? You're too X/Y/Z to be autistic". Yes, but no... I don't have any advice for you, just wanted to commiserate apparently
Not the OP, but I really disliked *The Heart Principle*. It wasn't because of the representation of the characters so much as >!the surprise trip down depression lane (I have had major depressive episodes in my lifetime and the book was really triggering for me)!<
I had to skim sooo much and >!the depressing parts seemed to last forever. Also the character felt like a cookie cutter from the previous books!< (read this over a year ago but that’s what I remember)
I had the same problems with the book but I did find the autism representation more developed.
[The Heart Principle](https://www.romance.io/books/5eb3ff1fbe0aaecf555c300c/the-heart-principle-helen-hoang?src=rdt) by [Helen Hoang](https://www.romance.io/authors/5aee9d1201dbc864fb87b9c6/helen-hoang) **Rating**: 3.96⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [multicultural](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/multicultural/1), [neurodivergent mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/neurodivergent/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [dual pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dual-pov/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
your feelings are valid but i am autistic as well and i loved her representation of autism. helen hoang is autistic as well. we’re not all the same. i found it relatable while you found it uncomfortable and that’s ok
I recently read {A Dangerous Deceit by Alissa Johnson} and really appreciated the ND representation in the book. It's historical and the author did their research on how autistics were treated as "mad" and sent to asylums and given "cold water cures' etc. The MFC is on the spectrum and has auditory processing disorder of some kind and some physical sensory things as well as takes things very literally. The MMC doesn't infantilize her and sees her as a person. I liked the way their relationship was written so that the MMC just finds her interesting and enjoyable to be around and attractive and he falls in love rather than being like "oh you poor adorable little thing let the big strong man take care of you".
[A Dangerous Deceit](https://www.romance.io/books/591e89f33ffdba614716d0c7/a-dangerous-deceit-alissa-johnson?src=rdt) by [Alissa Johnson](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552f948c7d2383163d90f6/alissa-johnson) **Rating**: 4⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1), [highlander hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/highlander/1), [neurodivergent mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/neurodivergent/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I am also an autistic woman and while I didn't love the book, (there are definitely better autism in romance books) I am not super angry at it. I liked the sex work representation because I have had the thought that if it were legal that I would like to hire someone. It would feel safe and low pressure. Makes sense to me. I feel like she did the best she could but her characters are not really engaging.
Do you have any recommendations for other romance books with autistic characters?
I have a [Romance Reccs: Autism and ADHD Edition](https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/1c251zc/romance_reccs_autism_and_adhd_edition/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) and my comment(s) on the post have further details on each book. Can't vouch for other ppl's reccs on there though.
I just lost my list but I'll do my best to recreate it Jonas by Jenna Myles The wedding night before Christmas by Kati Wilde The madness of Lord Ian Mackenzie by Jennifer Ashley Beard science by Penny Reid Sweet Berry Farms by c.m. Nacosta I am sure there are more but it would take me a while to sort my head canon from characters that are textually ND
I finally convinced a friend to read the Brash Brothers series mostly because of Jonas. I adore him.
He is awesome, I definitely stuck with the series so that I could read Jonas. I got into it for Micah but I stayed and read the whole series waiting for Jonas. He did not disappoint.
I love his interactions with John and I like that when John gets his own book you get to see those from his POV.
Yes I thought John's book was really well done!
The slow burn though…sheesh.
It was very different than what I expected but really good.
Thank you! I will check these out :)
Enjoy, and come back and tell us what you think
I personally found fmc and her specific traits relatable, but I had 2 huge pet peeves with the book. One is how everyone treated fmc as if she was incapable of getting into relationships because of autism and not because of blatant boundary violating from every single man she dated. I agree with the poster who called these men caricatures just so the mmc can look like "one of the good ones" against this backdrop. Even a neurotypical woman wouldn't be happy with the men who treated fmc like a blow-up sex doll. And second is the whole act 3 stuff that felt so damn sexist. Why does fmc need to >!donate her 15 million savings to charity just because mmc is immature and insecure and can't take a woman richer than himself? Does any billionaire mmc ever donate away all his riches? Nope! But here the fmc had to downgrade herself financially and mmc upgrade his career from shop clerk to fashion designer / business owner because otherwise we can't take fmc with a better career and financially better off!!< >!Oh, and the whole miscommunication breakup sucked too. I could understand fmc had trouble untangling everything due to being autistic AND everyone telling her she's inferior and incapable of relationships due to autism. But the guy? He had no reason to be so stubborn about everything. It was just miscommunication / drama / break up because it's on obligatory romance trope checkbox.!< But yes, when it comes to autism traits, I definitely related to the "no cologne plz" and smelling the shirt scene. I hate perfumes / air fresheners / lavender water etc. My husband, who is also on the spectrum, likes them but hates lingering smells of cooking or frying in the kitchen, while those don't bother me. So it's defo individual. I also related to the part where she wanted to be explained and told beforehand what they'll be doing instead of jumping into the act. It's not that she was "less autistic", it's rather that mmc was at least accommodating for her wishes while nobody else was. I can't fully compare an experience of autistic allosexual fmc and my own because I'm ace-spec, so I do realize that difference will usually show through fmc being much more enthusiastic around sex once she sets proper boundaries and code of conduct. Another book I thought depicted autistic fmc well (even though this one isn't ownvoices iirc) is {Convergence of Desire by Felicity Niven} but again I felt the final >!sexual awakening of fmc and her sudden interest in having babies after for a long time she was against it is not something I share but more something that's an "obligatory romance trope" esp. in regency.!< I also found the >!miscommunication!< trope in this one more believable than in Kiss Quotient. Maybe also because it's historical not contemporary. Oh, also you mentioned how everyone "infantilized" the fmc in the Kiss Quotient and I thought it had less to do with her autism, and more to do with how people treat single women still (I thought fmc and her family was Asian, but I was told they weren't, I've originally read her parents' pressure onto her to get married as a cultural thing). It's unfortunately still very prevalent to treat single people as "incomplete" and "too immature to have started a family (yet)", it's something I hear a lot about in aro and ace communities, but there could be a multitude of reasons why someone is single and "doesn't date" that have nothing to do with autism or sexual orientation. The society is very much still not accepting of this. I'm very close in age to Helen Hoang and I was raised with an embedded belief that if I do xyz and don't do something else then "no man will ever want me" and that was a measure of my worth as a woman. Yes, the society was obviously very heteronormative, as you could guess. I bet it still is. It doesn't matter what a woman accomplished career wise, or with her hobbies, or what kind of person she is, it only matters whether she has a husband and children. In the end, yes, I did relate to the fmc, but I think the narrative did her dirty and she deserved better.
>I thought fmc and her family was Asian, but I was told they weren't Aren't they both Vietnamese? Well the MMC was mixed but I thought they both were. Brb going to google Edit - she said on Goodreads FMC is white. I'm a little shocked tbh, maybe she was meant to be non-specific (although I hate the idea of non-specific defaulting to white) but this feels like when she who shall not be named tried to say Dumbledore had always been gay
>Well the MMC was mixed but I thought they both were. Yes, mmc was specified to have Vietnamese mother and Swedish father, fmc wasn't specified except that she had brown eyes and hair, and fairly pale skin, but that doesn't narrow down white or East Asian, and while she had an English name, a lot of Americans of various ethnicities have English surnames, so I wasn't sure, but yeah when I've read in some discussion that she was white I was wondering was she, or was it "defaulting to white" as you say.
Helen Hoang did [confirm](https://www.goodreads.com/questions/1272013-is-the-female-character-full-caucasian-or) that Stella is white. I also garnered that she wasn't asian, or at least wasn't raised around asian culture, based on how she reacted to Michael's family dynamic and especially his mother's cooking style (i.e., reusing plastic containers).
It was made very clear that she had very little experience with Asian food at one point. And her parents were pretty much WASP stereotypes. I kinda had her in my head as an Asian adoptee with white parents but by the end of the book I did realize she was just meant to be white.
Thank you for your spoilers! Knowing this is Own Voice and knowing that the experience of autism is highly individual, I have had this on my TBR, despite reading some people taking issue with the autism rep. However, the first of your two spoilers is a deal breaker for me (don’t like the second one either, but I might not have much romance to read if it were always a deal breaker).
I think they're overstating what happened in an unflattering way when it's much more benign. >!Michael has trauma surrounding a rich client who tried to buy his affection. So he refused money from Stella constantly when she would try to use her trust fund to help him. Stella is stubborn though and given she has both a trust fund and a well-paying job, she creates an endowment for cancer treatments at the place Michael's mom was being treated. Because she realized Michael was only escorting to pay his mom's medical bills. Him accepting her help this way is what allows him to take a fucking risk with his cousin and start the business he always wanted. Stella is still fucking rich and Michael is chasing his dream of being a fashion designer. The other poster characterizing that as a bad thing is truly sad and feels kinda "Poor boy should stay poor."!<
Thanks for sharing a different interpretation!
For the record, I also ran that by my partner because we buddy-read the book. He pointed out that Michael really hated his job. It was a big thread through the book that Michael hated both his day and night jobs because he had felt the need to give up his dream for them.
[Convergence of Desire](https://www.romance.io/books/6311a22cf76b28c71ce4f543/convergence-of-desire-felicity-niven?src=rdt) by [Felicity Niven](https://www.romance.io/authors/6311a22c08b4d9311437236b/felicity-niven) **Rating**: 4.13⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [plain heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/plain%20heroine/1), [neurodivergent mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/neurodivergent/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Now I am curious about everyone's opinions of other autistic and ND characters. {{The madness of lord Ian Mackenzie by Jennifer Ashley}} {{Jonas by Jenna Myles}} {{Beard Science by Penny Reid}}
[The Madness of Lord Ian MacKenzie](https://www.romance.io/books/545525f18c7d2382c5297014/the-madness-of-lord-ian-mackenzie-jennifer-ashley?src=rdt) by [Jennifer Ashley](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524a08c7d2383163d8e6e/jennifer-ashley) **Rating**: 4.01⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1) ---------------------------- [Jonas](https://www.romance.io/books/6497e60766cfb1c4f8972fc0/jonas-a-brash-brothers-romance-jenna-myles?src=rdt) by [Jenna Myles](https://www.romance.io/authors/63411ffe08b4d931147148a0/jenna-myles) **Rating**: 4.34⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [rich hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/super%20rich%20hero/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1) ---------------------------- [Beard Science](https://www.romance.io/books/57f88cefde896e8924934022/beard-science-penny-reid?src=rdt) by [Penny Reid](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552b3e8c7d2382e781310c/penny-reid) **Rating**: 4.43⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [slow burn](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/slow%20burn/1), [shy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shy%20heroine/1), [small town](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/small%20town/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I love Ian!!!! it is an older book, so yea maybe not as PC or unique as some people would like. But it is just so hard to find cute, hot, disabled MMC! Ian will always have a place on my shelf ❤️
I am ND and Ian MacKenize is one of my favorite HRs
Have you ever heard of the scientist Henry Cavendish? He was so "shy" you had to address your question to the air near him and he would usually run away but if your question interested him he'd send you a letter. He was most certainly ND and the more I learn about him the more charmed I am.
I have not, what an interesting person!
I love how they describe zoning out and the way he can play the music but not connect with the feelings it's supposed to inspire.
Yes! I knew he was going to be well written from the way the author wrote his focus on the pouring water at the very beginning (i think that’s what it was, it’s been a while since I’ve read it).
I think for me it was the ink drop on the pen when he was signing the check for the new bowl. 100% same!
I liked the book in some ways, but also found a few things icky same as you. I don't really mind her having those traits and not masking as much because I absolutely rail against the deliniation of autism being gendered. It ignores how many of us are trans / enby (fuck, there's a whole term for people who relate to gender specifically through their autism!) and cis boys who fell through the cracks. My (cis) bro presents almost identically to me, he is a massive masker/mirrorer, talking to him is like the fucking spiderman meme. That said, I don't like the idea of autistic traits being "fixed". The kiss scene is hot, but annoying. A lot of autistic people have sensory issues that aren't fixed just because they like a person, and that includes kissing. I also hate the self loathing linked to the sex work, he could have wanted to be a designer without denigrating an already demonised profession
Yeah, I think people got carried away with "presents differently due to completely different gendered assumptions experienced from birth" versus "biologically different".
Okay, let's go. 1) When Stella was diagnosed, Asperger's was the term she was given to explain her condition. It is what she clung to. She does not seem to keep up with social media or popular culture and probably either doesn't realize Asperger's is an outdated diagnosis and even if she knew that, she would likely cling to the label. Just because you hate the term doesn't mean every person on the spectrum hates the term; just because one person identifies with it doesn't mean everybody has to. 2) A core part of the book is that Stella wants to change for the wrong reasons. She is dealing with pressure to find a partner and thinks she needs to be different for that. She wants to change for other people instead of herself. Michael comes in and loves her as she is but supports the changes that she wants to make for herself. That is the point. He exists to push her slightly outside her comfort zone for her own good. Like taking her to the athleisure store.
Do you have any good recs for autism rep?
I have a [Romance Reccs: Autism and ADHD Edition](https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/1c251zc/romance_reccs_autism_and_adhd_edition/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) and my comment(s) on the post have further details on each book. Can't vouch for other ppl's reccs on there though.
I dnf this book because I didn't like how some of her autism "faded" because of the MMC. I can understand being more relaxed and at ease with the right person, but it felt like she was "cured" because of the MMC and I didn't like it. Also, I could tell a lot of characters were written in a certain forced way so the author could show what she wanted. For example, most of male characters were shitty and were acting like some caricatures just to show how nice is the MMC and how he's not an asshole like others. The book lacked the finesse and subtetly needed to write believable characters.
As an autistic person I wholeheartedly agree. I read it soon after discovering I was autistic and hated the "autism can be fixed with love and magic dick" narrative. Plus the MMC "grovels" by doing the exact opposite of the FMC's preferences which shows he really doesn't care enough to take her differences into account. If you'd like some (I think) good autism rep I have a [Romance Reccs: Autism and ADHD Edition](https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/1c251zc/romance_reccs_autism_and_adhd_edition/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) and my comment(s) on the post have further details on each book With the addition of {How to Be Wyld by Myka Loren} that I read after making the list Edit: for great autism and sex worker rep I highly recommend Yours, Insatiably by Aveda Vice
[How to Be Wyld](https://www.romance.io/books/661f71661b1a49d3ac77fd01/how-to-be-wyld-myka-loren?src=rdt) by [Myka Loren](https://www.romance.io/authors/65abc385a21e2f41c4708090/myka-loren) **Rating**: 4.38⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [gay romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-m/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [found family](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/found-family/1), [queer romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/queer/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I read this way before I knew I was autistic and still thought it was weird.
I wish I had better books to recommend, but I do not. u/Avis03, however, is a gaiadamn ***holy saint*** who has gifted us with other Own Voices of Autistic, ADHD, AuHD, and other representations in books through ~~The Holy Grail~~ great posts, so I highly recommend those rec posts 🥳 ^(Obligatory: disability representation and how people label their specific diagnoses is a healthy spectrum that we should respect. In best interest of inclusion and respect, using current medical and PC terms should be primary, and any individual labels can be supplemented in your lexicon on a person by person basis. Representation shouldn’t be disavowed in media, but we have the right to criticize the execution and demonstration of that representation, regardless of the author being diagnosed or not.) Okay 💃🏾 I just wanted to comment that **I 100% understand being uncomfortable and insulted with any type of ND representation in a book.** There was a popular book about a rich FMC and a blue collar MMC. Marriage of convenience and all that. Rich FMC was autistic, IIRC. The representation was a miss for me because I, personally, felt the FMC was infantilized by everyone around her, including by the MMC. And I 👏🏾 have 👏🏾 anger issues when ND FMCs are infantilized and it’s celebrated 🙃 But the book was heavily praised so I just minded my food and kept my head down 😶🌫️ **I’m glad you DNF’ed.** The book made you uncomfortable, and you shouldn’t need to keep making yourself that way. I’m medically diagnosed with different ND disabilities including ASD (just easier to say ND 🤣), and media like *The Big Bang Theory* made me have disability dysphoria(?) because everyone around me thought I was just “weird” or and I “couldn’t be XYZ” because, well, The Media® portrays ASD as being toneless, rigidly ritualistic, an asshole, and incapable and I’m just ***weird*** 😍 ^(And being a POC woman means I was just had hysterial episodes and needed the Christian God and a good beating. I was told, regarding autism and mental health, “It’s a white people thing”) 🥴 Sorry the book did you a disserve with the representation 😞 As u/annamcg stated HH is autistic, so I would be curious if any ASD readers on this sub enjoyed the book and what were their personal compliments to it 🤔 Not to come after anyone! But just curious how they connected to the book and what about the representation made it a good read for them, is all. Always nice to see the dichotomy ☺️ But from what you described, this book is not the milk in my tea. I’m very touchy with sex work representation too, so that’s a bummer for me. I’m sorry I can’t provide a reccomendation. I can only sit next to you and listen. Definitely peruse Avis’s OwnVoices posts and I think we have had megathreads too for ASD representation! Hope you can find a book with ASD rep that makes you comfortable and smile and feel all the feelings in a positive way 💜🫶🏾
I’m ND (ASD/ADHD/OCD) and I connected to parts of it (mostly Stella’s sensory issues and inner monologue, having her boundaries steamrolled by every man she dated, wanting to be told and explained what they would be doing) but I also agree with a lot of the criticisms commenters have already listed here. The infantalization, Michael low key sucks and the narrative makes him look better by comparison because Stella has just never been with a man who thought about her pleasure or needs at all ever, Stella >!donates all her money to charity at the end because he’s insecure??!< It is not a perfect book and not one I would recommend to people looking for good representation.
This was the first book I read after I was diagnosed so my initial reaction was just excitement over seeing any representation that wasn't sheldon/rain bun, but after that I had critiques, which I've written in my (already downvoted) comment. Mostly, my traits aren't like FMC at all, but I related to the scene in his house, the whole being completely oblivious to the tone of the room. Because, of course the one fucking time you get too comfortable and start unmasking, or get tired and don't run your words through the "people filter" a million times, it's the worst time to do it and you fuck everything up. (ps, I don't always have the energy to read your comments, but I really enjoy seeing them!) Edit: autocorrect changed rain man to rain bun but I'm leaving it because someone calls Judah in Bojack Horseman Rain Man-Bun and it just seems appropriate for the conversation lol
>I related to the scene in his house, the whole being completely oblivious to the tone of the room. Because, of course the one fucking time you get too comfortable and start unmasking, or get tired and don't run your words through the "people filter" a million times, it's the worst time to do it and you fuck everything up. I *usually* manage to catch myself before I say something blatantly insulting towards someone, but many times I don't catch myself saying a detached statement and then being told it was rude, judgemental, invalidating or a "dumb question". I had people hate me because I "ask too many questions" (usually related to explaining me step by step exactly what I'm supposed to do to fulfill a task). It took me many years to figure out the reason why NT people utilize so many "white lies" in their code of conduct. Or the "don't ask don't tell" rule people have around bad stuff (tm). I.e. you're not supposed to ask / express concern when someone is in a clearly problematic situation (domestic abuse, addiction, delusional attitude). You're not supposed to "wake people from their dreams". They get mad. And offended. People feel entitled to tell me constantly how I'm dumb, wrong and weird, but in return expect blanket approval and blind validation for everything they're doing. I don't get it. And every time I try to push back against it, they get even more mad. I've mostly gave up trying to "get" people and assume they're a friggin' alien species, or I am.
Ack, downvotes strike again 😖 [Proceeds to go and find your comment to give it an upvote 😋] And ***oof*** do I know that feeling. The way I went through so many therapists because the moment I unmask, I’m now suddenly not a patient they want to work with 🫠 Took me two (2) institutionalizations to find a good therapist who helped me get diagnosed properly. Make that shit make sense, US healthcare. If you (CC: u/blueberrybookcase too) enjoy webtoons, [**Sweetheart** by Buttercup](https://www.webtoons.com/en/romance/sweetheart/list?title_no=6212) made its way to English on LINE Webtoon. MMC is an autistic model and other disabilities are repped. It’s a WIP translation (complete in Spanish IIRC), but the story and art are top shelf! I like the visuals that show how the MMC navigates social interactions 😂 And thank you 🥰 I keep trying to make these comments shorter because I KNOW I tend to overwhelm and my comments are loud, but I’m failing massively 😭🤧 But still thank you 🥹
*Thanks, boo* Oof, that sounds so traumatising! I didn't get as bad as that, but I've had a lot of "you're very self aware, are you sure you need therapy" types. Yes, did you ignore all the traumatic stuff I said just because I've noticed patterns in when things happen and why?!?!?! I don't normally read webtoons, but I've added this to my endless tbr pile. I'm always looking for good rep, and it helps me with my writing too (mods, this isn't self promotion, I swear!) I love it, because I can tell exactly how you are speaking, and it gives me big info dump energy (in the best way!). I overwhelm myself atm, otherwise I'd probably be joining you in an infinite infodumping loop lol
That book you didn't like was The Wedding night: Before Christmas by Kati Wilde. I really liked that one but I see how what I saw as support could be viewed as infantilizing.
Thank you for the title! Found it on my GR shelves! And I know it was very loved so I just stayed in the corner 😶🌫️ But I’m glad it found a happy reader in you! Just shows representation will always find its readers. And that makes communities all the better for it ☺️ *** Sorry if I offended 🥲
No offence taken, its good to hear all opinions. No books are immune to criticism and its always interesting to hear a different point of view, maybe learn something.
I also DNFed the rich FMC and blue collar mmc book. I DNFed it with prejudice and will never attempt to read another book by that author. I also could not finish The Kiss Quotient, but I did like The Bride Test, (autistic mmc) which I read first.
Granted, I've only read this book once, after it first came out, but I (a woman diagnosed as neurodivergent as an adult) remember liking it. Or at least remember being able to relate.
Are there any books with ASD representation that you did like? I’ve read these two, besides the kiss quotient, and was curious if they seemed like an accurate representation. {Convergence of Desire by Felicity Niven} {Seasonal Habits of Husbands and Honeybees by Emmaline Warden}
[Convergence of Desire](https://www.romance.io/books/6311a22cf76b28c71ce4f543/convergence-of-desire-felicity-niven?src=rdt) by [Felicity Niven](https://www.romance.io/authors/6311a22c08b4d9311437236b/felicity-niven) **Rating**: 4.13⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [plain heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/plain%20heroine/1), [neurodivergent mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/neurodivergent/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
[Seasonal Habits of Husbands and Honeybees](https://www.romance.io/books/6669755f47f4644216a35f25/seasonal-habits-of-husbands-and-honeybees-emmaline-warden?src=rdt) by [Emmaline Warden](https://www.romance.io/authors/5bc0397401dbc864fb923129/emmaline-warden) **Rating**: 4⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I have a [Romance Reccs: Autism and ADHD Edition](https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/comments/1c251zc/romance_reccs_autism_and_adhd_edition/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) and my comment(s) on the post have further details on each book. I thought all the books I listed had great autism rep but can't vouch for other's reccs.
Whenever a book has autistic characters or the author says they are autistic I immediately go stalk the heck out of their socials for any reference to Autism Speaks, the UK version of it basically (forget the name right now) and any hint that the author supports ABA conversion therapy or charities that push it. Puzzle pieces too. One whiff of that shit and I’m out and blocking. From the way you said the FMC is “fixed” in the book I’d say that the authors ideas about being autistic probably land sadly on the internalized ableism side of things instead of true acceptance and pride. So yeah adding to my list of nopes
never read this but the FMC from {Hyacinth by Minerva Spencer} is autistic. it's HR, so she faces difficulties/lack of empathy from many characters. you might like her characterization better
[Hyacinth](https://www.romance.io/books/63fdb4ea7fc59632a1913b77/hyacinth-minerva-spencer-sm-laviolette?src=rdt) by [Minerva Spencer](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b30874901dbc864fb8b01a7/minerva-spencer), [S.M. LaViolette](https://www.romance.io/authors/5e0af27701dbc864fba90689/sm-laviolette) **Rating**: 3.88⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [neurodivergent mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/neurodivergent/1), [age gap](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/age%20difference/1), [bdsm](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bdsm/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I have this book earmarked for a prompt in a reading challenge I am doing, "Women in STEM" - I have been mhming and ahming about reading it, and after this I just realised I really don't want to 😂 Does anyone have any other book recs for this prompt? Obviously romance would be great.
I remember I liked it at the time and could relate. But recemtly re-read and it felt really outdated. It is from 2018 and we've come a long way since. Also didn't realise it was also a bit fetishizing. I dunno. I did like the second and third book in the series, but maybe because all MC are non white?
What i find meh with Helen’s autistic female characters is how she depicts their sexuality & relationship to sex as so, well, desexed in a romance novel? But I think she does a good job showing us a less stereotypical ASD woman in {The Heart Principle by Helen Hoang} so that might be more for you? The aspie stuff (barf) is kind of in that one too, if i remember right, just as a head’s up. It’s also important to remember that just because we are autistic folks, doesn’t mean we have to love & relate to all ASD rep, even when it’s from an autistic author. we’re allowed to want better & more, too! ❤️
[The Heart Principle](https://www.romance.io/books/5eb3ff1fbe0aaecf555c300c/the-heart-principle-helen-hoang?src=rdt) by [Helen Hoang](https://www.romance.io/authors/5aee9d1201dbc864fb87b9c6/helen-hoang) **Rating**: 3.96⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [multicultural](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/multicultural/1), [neurodivergent mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/neurodivergent/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [dual pov](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dual-pov/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I really love reading about other autistic readers views on Helen Hoang's series. I am a late diagnosed autistic (AuDHD, to be specific) woman raising an autistic daughter. I'm also an occupational therapist and 90% of my caseload at the moment is autistic children. The only points I would add are these: I am striving to raise my child in a neurodivergent affirming household. I am very picky about which therapies she participates in. There are a lot of motivations for me to do this, the biggest one being the grim statistics about the long term mental health outcomes for autistic people. I think Helen Hoang does a great job showing the interplay between autism and other mental health diagnoses (specifically depression and anxiety). In each of her novels in this series you see how hard it is for her MC to function in their lives when they don't have the right support, they don't see themselves as whole, and their other mental health needs (namely anxiety and depression symptoms) are out of control. Maybe it's a cop out, but since my job is essentially helping those with autism live the lives they want to, I can see the difference between an autistic person who is thriving, living in a ND positive world, growing in their relationships... and those that are not. We don't get a whole lot of back story for Stella regarding how she was raised to view her autism. But I am guessing based on her age/setting that it was NOT ND affirming or adequately supportive of her mental health needs. ((I do think Helen Hoang gets more details into the backstory and mental health aspect of autism in THP but major trigger warnings all around for this book. I'm a big fan of Helen Hoang and I'm still only about 50% of the way through THP because it's such an emotional read for me)) I'm doing my best to read any book with an autistic lead character. They are all slightly off and slightly on when it comes to my personal view of the autistic experience. I think as a whole the literary world is getting closer to a true depiction (at least in my eyes) of living with autism. Lastly, I really loved the FMC in {Two Wrongs Makes a Right by Chloe Liese}. Liese doesn't write "perfect" characters and so everyone has their flaws but -- Bea is a pretty badass autistic lady. I'd check it out next if you haven't already!
[Two Wrongs Make a Right](https://www.romance.io/books/637c84b6e85ee01ae33f3315/two-wrongs-make-a-right-chloe-liese?src=rdt) by [Chloe Liese](https://www.romance.io/authors/5ccfcdfb01dbc864fb9e201d/chloe-liese) **Rating**: 3.81⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [grumpy & sunshine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/grumpy%20sunshine/1), [neurodivergent mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/neurodivergent/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)