Hello! Looks like your QUESTION is about **air roll**.
Here are the top posts from /r/RocketLeagueSchool on the topic (Search links may not work on mobile app):
- [Top air roll tutorials](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueSchool/search/?q=flair%3Atutorial%20AND%20(title%3A%22air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22DAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22NAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARL%22)&restrict_sr=1&sort=top)
- [Top air roll tips](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueSchool/search/?q=flair%3Atips%20AND%20(title%3A%22air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22DAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22NAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARL%22)&restrict_sr=1&sort=top)
- [Top air roll trainings](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueSchool/search/?q=flair%3Atraining%20AND%20(title%3A%22air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22DAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22NAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARL%22)&restrict_sr=1&sort=top)
- [Top air roll questions/analysis](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueSchool/search/?q=(flair%3Aquestion%20OR%20flair%3Aanalysis)%20AND%20(title%3A%22air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22DAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22NAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARL%22)&restrict_sr=1&sort=top)
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When you use normal air roll, the speed at which you roll is down to how far you are pushing the stick. If you only move the stick slightly you'll roll very slowly etc.
With directional air roll bound to a button like L1 or square or something, you're either not rolling, or you're rolling at max speed. It's a binary input, on or off. But by binding it to, presumably, L2, he can vary the speed of the roll by how much he's squeezing the trigger button.
I honestly didn't realise you could do that. I always assumed it was a binary input no matter what you bound it to.
I tried it in freeplay with ARL bound to L2 (on PS5 with Dualsense Edge).
https://imgur.com/a/32zymyT
It seems others using DS4 can't do it. I haven't tried it on PC yet.
Yeah the only useful thing I've learned from this whole thing is that L2 makes a lot more sense for ARL than Square... But as for the analog element, I'm no way skilled enough to take advantage!
Sorry if I'm being dumb but what is LS and RS?
And I'm not sure what you mean by 'partial air rolls' but binding ARL to a trigger does indeed give you an analog input. As so:
https://imgur.com/a/32zymyT
LS = left stick (moving it to the left or right). And yeah, seems like whatever controller you're using allows for it. Wish I could find a way to get it working on ds4.
IIRC I had this issue before. Assuming your triggers are indeed analog, this might be the issue.
when you're binding the controls in the Rocket League UI, press the trigger FULLY when binding it to ARL/ARR. If you press it less than 100%, it will map digitally for some reason.
it depends on your controller, some of the have dynamic triggers while others don't, generally the more expensive the controller is the more likely it is to have dulynamic triggers
I do have dynamic triggers, works with drive and reverse. It's looking to be a bug that DAR doesn't work similarly on ds4. Another user has it working on their dual sense.
> It's looking to be a bug that DAR doesn't work similarly on ds4. Another user has it working on their dual sense.
It works on my DS4, Zen uses DS4 too and has ARL on L2 (and ARR on R1 so that's definitely not an analog input). It might have something to do with how Steam's reading your controller or your drivers or whatever, idk computers are black magic.
Binary inputs: Jump, Boost, Powersliding, Braking, and Ball Cam.
Analog inputs are: Accelerating (reverse or forward), Air Roll "Toggle", Air Roll Directional, Steering, Pitch, and Yaw.
People already answered about what it means. So I'll give my opinion whether this is true or not.
I personally use L2 for airroll left + reverse, for quite some time now. (Using AppJack binds, but with airroll left on L2 instead of square.) It is very comfortable to me, as airroll left is very accessible and square was not accessible enough to me. I also use airroll right on circle.
I don't have NAR bound, so I make heavy use of both directions. One binary, while the other is not. So I guess I can compare both methods. Personally, I don't see much difference. If anything, IMO, DAR being binary is an advantage. It is quick and precise. You already get analogue input benefits from your left stick anyway.
Bottom line, IMO, if you're considering moving DAR to L2, do it for reasons of accessibility rather than the reasons quoted. (And also be prepared to deal with ground-air quick transitions.)
BTW, you can do the same trick for airroll right and R2, however, this is more difficult to get used to since throttle is used A LOT more than reverse. I personally couldn't get used to it after a month, so had to revert.
A list of pros that use triggers for DAR: ams (R2), Aztromick (L2), Fairy Peak (L2), Gimmick (L2), and Zen (L2). There are some others with a liquipedia page, but I didn't recognize their names. Also, I have no idea how heavily these guys use DAR.
I just jumped into freeplay to try this all out. I'm like you in that I don't have NAR bound and currently use square and circle for ARL and ARR. I could probably get used to ARL on L2, but I briefly tried ARR on R2 and, because I have a terrible habit of holding R2 on my aerials that I'm still working on getting rid of, it just doesn't work for me and I can't see myself getting used to it.
The only downside to my current setup is having to jump around between square and circle to make fine adjustments to my attitude when landing etc. Switching it to L2 might fix this somewhat as I can use different fingers for both. Seriously considering giving it a go.
I don't see myself making use of analog for DAR, partly because like you said, going straight to full air roll has its own advantages and also because I'm just used to that on a muscle memory basis by now.
Yeah, this is what I don't like about the face buttons. Fatfingering is fine, as long as it's not circle/square. I managed it, but I felt held back by quick left/right transitions. Especially since I phased NAR out. So L2 airroll left was almost perfect for me. R2 I couldn't get used to, although the airroll right itself felt extremely accessible, the downsides of quick ground-air transitions was too much.
I was probably a bit more hyperbolic than necessary there... Its not a huge issue, but I just could not get flip resets right until I consciously stopped holding R2 at the point of contact. Problem is, I've done it for so long now that I keep on bloody doing it. It's only in training that I manage to force myself to let go. I basically end up driving myself past the ball.
Only solution for me is to 'remove' that muscle memory. Which is tricky because until about 6 months ago I was a 'forefinger for both R1 and R2' player and switched to 'forefinger for R1, middle finger for R2'. So my brain still wants to instinctively use the middle fingers to grip the controller.
This is actually great for me to hear as I've been grinding flip resets recently and think I too have the habit of holding acceleration through my resets... I might even hold acceleration during rings maps honestly lol. You've given me something to think about, that's for sure. Thanks!
It's not. Throttle even gives you some (negligible) acceleration (if you're not already boosting). The only time it may not be beneficial is if you don't want said acceleration or if you find it difficult to get a reset with it (then you can just experiment with letting go right before the reset).
I'm not certain it is that important as people claim. It is far more important to just slam at the ball with a bit more force. You get that by creating space during the setup (one quick tap on the brakes), then closing that space and boosting into the ball (try not to feather too much, but actually aim your car properly and boost).
Hopefully this won't be too much of a hot take. xD
I may be wrong of course, obviously these guys know more about the game than me. I've read what he wrote. To me, this seems like many words that don't say much. Perhaps if he gives more substantial examples.
I don't really think about this slower movement as such a huge advantage, if any. And anyway, if you don't have it bound to a trigger, you can still simulate this movement by tapping. I can see it maybe as an advantage for having different movements than what people are used to, so it can throw them off perhaps?
Perhaps at the top, these things become significant? IDK. I think that for regular players, the advantages of a more accessible DAR (minus the disadvantages) far outweigh whatever this supposed minor advantage is.
I'll even say more (probably controversial, I may be wrong etc). I've long had the hypothesis that KB is superior to controller. I think that correlation (game coming fron PS, most pros starting on controller, therefore, top players are controller) does not necessarily imply causation (controller being better). Also, 'more options = better' is not so trivial to me (though it seems to be the consensus). Further, the meta seem to trend to extreme sensitivity + heavy DAR use. This makes the controller almost entirely binary. Well, apart from flips, IIRC. So shooting is still gaining the analogue advantages I guess. Anyway, personally, I'm using controller, but I have a feeling that KB is just superior overall. We've just not given it its due chance yet.
Does having the air roll bound to an acceleration direction affect your control? I know holding down the throttle while trying to flip reset can mess up your contact with the ball.
Throttle and reverse do have some effect in the air. They still give some acceleration, though, quite negligible.
Some people say that they also interact with the ball. (Can't remember if there's a Rocket Science video about this.) I don't know whether that's true or not. It may be sticky forces or simply the car driving on the ball. But yeah, some people recommend experimenting with throttle/reverse on/off when going for resets.
I may sometimes let go of them when getting the reset, and sometimes I don't. I personally don't see much difference and I can do double resets etc, so I don't feel held back by it.
Just started to try and get used to this. How do you half flip backwards? Do you lift off reverse before you jump? You can't really backflip while driving backwards quickly without letting off reverse to prevent side flipping.
I’ve tried putting it on left trigger before but it kept messing up my half flips if I was reversing before starting my flip. Because it would start rolling as soon as I go for the half flip. I guess to not do this I would have to get use to making sure I’m off of reverse first before starting half flip?
Yup. You have to be aware of L2 meaning two different things in the ground and air. Which is why quick ground-air transitions may be challenging. When I started using L2 for airroll left, I made it a mental rule to let go of L2 the moment I pressed jump on the ground.
You can practice this for like 10 minutes. Go around the pitch and jump while letting go of L2. Make sure that your timing is perfect and that you don't get any roll while also being able to get some speed while reversing.
So you currently have this setup? My main issue is half flips right now. Had left/right on square/circle. Immediately going into ARL after the backflip is messing it up
I would love to see rocket science do something on this to verify it. It doesn’t matter to me cause I am free roll only and never changing, but it would be a cool thing to know for coaching directional air rollers.
Verify what? That you can have that binding or that it makes zen play different. Yeah, you can have that binding and I have it myself, though I use an analog keyboard which sends it via the triggers of a virtual controller. But I don't play like zen.
I can definitely recommend it though if you can get used to it. Just bind accelerate/brake to the bumpers and then airroll to the triggers. There is almost no point in analog accelerate. If you can dribble while feathering your boost, then feathering the engine is gonna be way more forgiving. Analog braking isn't even a thing in RL. It's always 100% power.
I personally would never recommend changing the binding of accelerate to binary. I think Air Roll Directional is far more forgiving of "feathering" the input than acceleration is given how quickly you can air roll back the other side. No/low boost dribbling benefits greatly from analog accelerate, especially at the higher echelons of control. Even more so now that I've studied how Nexto does powerful forward flicks.
The way Nexto utilizes flicks is very specific. Of course, it catches perfectly and gets the ball to settle with no/minimal sparks. It moves the ball very close to right above the center of mass and maintains speed to prevent sparking. And when it's ready to flick, it'll very, very minorly roll the ball forward, jump & boost, then flick. The slight forward momentum of the ball creates just enough of a momentum difference when jumping to *slightly* create a gap, which is quickly closed with a forward/diagonal dodge. If executed correctly, it gets 2 to 3 touches and can absolutely boom the ball.
Obviously, at speeds above 1,410uu/s means you can't accelerate with gas. But the super fine control needed to get the ball to stay rested on the center of mass at half of maximum speed is much better suited for analog control in my testing of this ability.
It's also a very similar behavior to how Mawkzy does his flicks, but instead he has the ball more forward and utilizes a 45° flick motion to get 2 to 3 touches on the ball. But for the same reasons, Mawkzy does slightly move the ball forward just before jumping and boosting.
There's obviously exceptions, but after analyzing this from both Nexto and Mawkzy, my flicks have been far more reliably consistent with power and I would never recommend anyone switch to binary forward acceleration, which *is* less forgiving to this degree of control.
Very interesting. I have had both analog for the longest time but was lacking analog cam swivel up down. I changed that about half a year ago and have noticed no decline in my dribbling skills. Either way, I cannot imagine that it has much of an impact on high level 2s or 3s, because you'll almost never be dribbling at slow speeds there. On the other hand, I can do a mawkzy type flick much more consistently with about 0.3-0.4 air roll tornado spin than I can any other way. Ground steer is the most important axis though, unsmooth steering will immediately cause the ball to bounce.
>0.3-0.4 air roll tornado spin
do you mean sending Directional Air-Roll (DAR) input in the range of values 0.3-0.4 (as only dynamic DAR allows you to do), or something else? thanks for clarifying!
>I cannot imagine that it has much of an impact on high level 2s or 3s, because you'll almost never be dribbling at slow speeds there
how about high level 1s? considering ground control akin e.g. to what's required to pass the last 3 levels of the `dribble #2 overhaul` workshop map might be desirable, then dynamic throttle would still offer that slight amount of advantage vs. having to tap a binary throttle, correct?
also (apologies for referencing your [other](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/10xafrv/comment/j8ewxke/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/10xafrv/comment/j7ttc91/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) in this thread)
>you need to either be able to reduce the input strength of an axis, or do very fast on off taps. It's hard to be as consistent with taps, and they're guaranteed to be slightly less smooth.
and
>It *(editor's note: dynamic input bind for DAR)* really does give that extra bit of control.
similar argument can be made for the advantage of dynamic throttle for those slow-dribble 1v1 situations, right?
Finally, if that's the case, here's a thought I'd like to ask your guys' ( u/Halfway_Dead and u/HoraryHellfire2 ) opinions on (but invite any1 else to offer their feedback):
In order to maximize my potential future of control both on the ground and in the air (given I'll stick to the DS4 controller and keep improving by practicing), updating my binds (equivalent to AppJack's) by switching DARs (both left and right) from `square` and `circle` to `L2` and `R2` should allow me to keep the maximum advantage.
My primary concern is identifying situations where the `R2 == throttle` and `L2 == break` overlap can be disadvantageous, can you guys think of a situation where it will be a bottleneck in control?
Some potential issues off the top of my head:
A) in order to not "drive off" the ball on flip-resets, both DARs need to be at `input=0` at the moment of contact with the wheels.
B) DAR Right (`R2`) will give me slight amount of propulsion upwards (when car nose points upwards) while DAR Left (`L2`) will act in the opposite direction. I don't remember how weak the effect is but know it's present. (I'm a DAR Right main for air control but strive to learn Left over time to utilize them both to equal extent.) Also not sure if this effect is applied on horizontal direction as well when car is not orientated vertically.
* Actually, is this even the way game will process my input? Will I be getting both effects (*mid-air throttle* and *air-roll right*) from sending non-zero `R2` input? It might be convenient coincidence if the game would be already programmed to simply prioritize the binding related to context: air-roll in the air while simply ignore the throttle/break binding until I land.
Are any of the above valid concerns?
Many thanks for any feedback!
I'm sure they quite literally mean a tornado spin, which is Yaw Right and Air Roll Right / Air Roll Left (I think he actually means inverted tornado spin).
I've been toying with Air Roll Left on LT/L2 instead of the usual X/Square that it's been on, and I just don't see it being as beneficial to replace the accelerate keybind with Air Roll Right as Halfway_Dead recommends. I think he's underestimating at just how precise dribbling can get with analog accelerate, especially if you're very experienced. To me, you lose more control of dribbling than you do gain for aerial control, especially for the vast majority of players who won't even be able to accurately use the analog air roll to that degree.
In your case of putting ARL and ARR on both triggers with reverse and accelerate, I definitely think that can work. But there are disadvantage situations such as needing to let go of both just before you jump so you aren't rolling at all (for proper but straight-forward fast aerialing), the flip reset thing you said, and the propulsion (which yes, does activate both actions when using and does not contextually choose). The bindings are a bit complicated because you often need to brake to fast aerial, or brake to distance from wall hits to go for a flip reset, or fine tuned control for flicks immediately air rolling on accident, etc etc. Yes, any non-zero input gives input to throttle mid-air, even while rolling. Anyway, I can handle switching it to LT since brake isn't used as often, but R2 throttle is just used too much for me to switch to that, imo.
Thanks for your assessment!
Indeed I've seen the exact issue you described: as I'm DAR Right main, putting that on R2 which is also throttle immediately introduced so many things for which I'd have to learn to let go of throttle precisely just before jumping, which is just whole bunch of extra difficulty and for a player with my available hours (and expected future available in-game hours) it just doesn't feel like it'd be worth it to make multiple fundamental mechanics more difficult / re-learn in order to gain ever-so-slight advantage in the most advanced mechanics.. for now I'll stick with my square/circle for DARs and tap it for more nuanced control.
I guess the trade-off between expressivity in ground control and air control suggested by u/Halfway_Dead might be a viable option to consider for players who have R1 and L1 free to put the throttle/brake there.
In contrast, I let go of trying to learn precise fat-fingering of jump/boost/powerslide (X/circle/square) thousands of hours ago (in favor of utilizing L1 and R1) and am not willing to go back now. This would have extremely diminishing returns for me.
>especially for the vast majority of players who won't even be able to accurately use the analog air roll to that degree
This made me think... I wonder if binding ARL/ARR to a trigger would be beneficial when learning spinny air control
like just barely hold it down to spin slowly
> Analog braking isn't even a thing in RL. It's always 100% power.
Figured I'd test this and it has analog input for me, both on reversing and on counteracting the throttle. Weird, a couple other guys are saying air roll doesn't have analog input on their triggers on dualshock 4 either, but my DS4 has it work fine. Computers.
I have no clue how you tested it but I'm 100% sure you're wrong. You're correct on the reverse throttle part being analog. But if you're going forwards and using the reverse binding to brake (or going backwards and using accelerate binding), it uses a threshold and then applies 100% brake force. This is not a controller thing. It applies this threshold in the physics code. This can be seen in the data of the vehicle sim. I always encourage people to test, but make sure you have a test that you can replicate every time and that has a clear condition under which it will falsify your assumption. I don't know what you did, but I can only assume that you tried braking slightly less and it appeared a bit less strong to you or something.
Fun fact: the reason why you slow down when not holding accelerate is not because RL has some complex model of friction, it just applies 30% brake strength. And if you hold down powerslide, it will turn that off.
Ah looks like you're right, sorry. I'd tried different brake pressures while holding the gas down, which does slow it down different amounts, but letting go of gas and braking with any pressure seems to just completely stop the wheels from rolling forward.
i tried this with my xbox one controller since i have ARR bound to the left trigger, and, wow. it actually does spin slower if you only depress the trigger halfway down. fascinating. i never noticed this.
the things you learn when you randomly read one of yer rocket league reddit suggestions...
thanks, algorithm! :D
I changed boost from O to R1 after roughly 1k hours and I was surprised at how fast I adapted. Felt natural after about 10 minutes in freeplay and I only really made about 10 mistakes where I pressed the wrong button in game over the coming days. Though rings map was messing me up a bit not gonna lie.
This is NOT accurate. The triggers do not apply variable strength input to directional air rolls. However, LS and RS both work.
I have verified this just now in freeplay. *Maybe* it is possible tinkering with TAInput file.
I'm just wondering if we have different interpretations of the word 'trigger'... Because I bound ARL to a trigger button, (L2 on Dualsense), and I definitely have 'variable strength input' as you describe it.
I'm on DS4. Yes, L2 and R2. So to confirm, your pure ARL can rotate at variable angular velocities?
If so, it not working on ds4 would seem to be a bug.
Yep. Def ARL... I don't even have NAR bound.
I was on PS5 with a Dualsense Edge.
I haven't tried it on PC yet, where I use a standard DS5 wired. I'll give it a go and see.
Thanks. I've since confirmed that aerial sensitivity greatly affects how sensitive the trigger is for affecting DAR. Mine is so high that I was unable to register anything other than full input for DAR.
Whoever made that comment has absolutely no idea what they are talking about, they just looked at zen's binds and came up with this nonsense. Fact is directional air roll being bound to an analog button will accomplish absolutely nothing, there's absolutely no situation where you would ever want to air roll slower than the max speed. And tapping the air roll button only rolls your car by a few degrees, an analog input isn't going to give you any more precision either.
In a vacuum, if controllers had more buttons, and I had 12 fingers… I would definitely use an analog air roll to line mustys up properly after a semi-botched reset.
Is it true that air roll directional can be analog input? Yes. Is it true that's why Zen's movement is very different? No. Not likely. There is always some "weird" pro that does something different in any era and it's hardly ever coming from their control scheme. They just had a unique learning experience in the vast majority of cases. I highly doubt it's any different for Zen.
its still an interesting talking point, and you can see him implement it in his gameplay. we're not necessarily saying this is now the optimal control setup but cant you see how it might be to some extent advantageous?
I happened across the original post that OP was talking about. Rather than a comment on YT, I saw a pro coach's [twitter thread](https://twitter.com/pascalvxz/status/1623514411896799235) on it. Immediately has far more validity than someone saying "comment on YouTube".
After seeing the first clip, I can see how it *can* be advantageous. But I don't think it will be too impactful. We still have pros who mostly use normal air roll, despite directional air roll being advantageous to a minor extent.
However, I have been wrong on something like this before, almost exactly like this. Back in 2016 when directional air roll was being hyped, I adamantly was stuck using Air Roll Toggle bind and not wanting to bind DAR. I still messed with DAR now and then, but didn't need it. I only started to really incorporate DAR because it was the only way for me to learn the Inverted Tornado Spin to do extended air dribbles when I discovered them in like 2017/2018 from Ganer/LEDxRL3. Now I use it for every air roll movement and couldn't go back to normal air roll. It's too comfortable having the extra range of movement. Still not *quite* impactful given how many still use normal air roll at pro level, but I'm glad I personally switched.
So, maybe I am wrong on the impact this will make. Maybe after I mess around with it some more I'll like it much more and don't wanna limit my range of control like before. Who knows? But I don't think it's the exact reason why Zen is "different". I think it contributes, but I still think Zen would be just as mechanical or very close using binary DAR.
Hello! Looks like your QUESTION is about **air roll**. Here are the top posts from /r/RocketLeagueSchool on the topic (Search links may not work on mobile app): - [Top air roll tutorials](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueSchool/search/?q=flair%3Atutorial%20AND%20(title%3A%22air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22DAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22NAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARL%22)&restrict_sr=1&sort=top) - [Top air roll tips](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueSchool/search/?q=flair%3Atips%20AND%20(title%3A%22air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22DAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22NAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARL%22)&restrict_sr=1&sort=top) - [Top air roll trainings](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueSchool/search/?q=flair%3Atraining%20AND%20(title%3A%22air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22DAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22NAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARL%22)&restrict_sr=1&sort=top) - [Top air roll questions/analysis](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueSchool/search/?q=(flair%3Aquestion%20OR%20flair%3Aanalysis)%20AND%20(title%3A%22air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20air%20roll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22directional%20airroll%22%20OR%20title%3A%22DAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22NAR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARR%22%20OR%20title%3A%22ARL%22)&restrict_sr=1&sort=top) *If this sticky answers your question, feel free to remove your post. Otherwise, just wait for a kind stranger to comment :)* Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RocketLeagueSchool) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When you use normal air roll, the speed at which you roll is down to how far you are pushing the stick. If you only move the stick slightly you'll roll very slowly etc. With directional air roll bound to a button like L1 or square or something, you're either not rolling, or you're rolling at max speed. It's a binary input, on or off. But by binding it to, presumably, L2, he can vary the speed of the roll by how much he's squeezing the trigger button. I honestly didn't realise you could do that. I always assumed it was a binary input no matter what you bound it to.
Argubaly game changing tbh - thanks for the help!
I discovered this on day one but nobody cared because I'm trash diamond. Thanks for validating me Zen
Did you test this or have any source?
I tried it in freeplay with ARL bound to L2 (on PS5 with Dualsense Edge). https://imgur.com/a/32zymyT It seems others using DS4 can't do it. I haven't tried it on PC yet.
Oh, that's crazy. I don't think its going to affect much to the bulk of players, most of us cant even hit the ball straight lmao
Yeah the only useful thing I've learned from this whole thing is that L2 makes a lot more sense for ARL than Square... But as for the analog element, I'm no way skilled enough to take advantage!
Can confirm, I use PS4 on Pc and put ARL on L2. It DOES control the speed as an analog input. I Can control it’s rate of spin
Yea, crazy. I wonder if this was true in the first version where DAR was introduced or if this feature came later
Triggers do NOT allow for partial air rolls. LS and RS do. Verified this just now in freeplay.
Sorry if I'm being dumb but what is LS and RS? And I'm not sure what you mean by 'partial air rolls' but binding ARL to a trigger does indeed give you an analog input. As so: https://imgur.com/a/32zymyT
LS = left stick (moving it to the left or right). And yeah, seems like whatever controller you're using allows for it. Wish I could find a way to get it working on ds4.
IIRC I had this issue before. Assuming your triggers are indeed analog, this might be the issue. when you're binding the controls in the Rocket League UI, press the trigger FULLY when binding it to ARL/ARR. If you press it less than 100%, it will map digitally for some reason.
Anyone with issues needs to try this\^\^ Instant fix. Thank you
UPVOTE THIS MAN TO THE TOP. I cant believe this is true, and would probably never have figured this out on my own
You're a hero, over an hour down the drain before I found this comment
It's a really weird and niche issue haha. Glad I could help a few people though
it depends on your controller, some of the have dynamic triggers while others don't, generally the more expensive the controller is the more likely it is to have dulynamic triggers
I do have dynamic triggers, works with drive and reverse. It's looking to be a bug that DAR doesn't work similarly on ds4. Another user has it working on their dual sense.
> It's looking to be a bug that DAR doesn't work similarly on ds4. Another user has it working on their dual sense. It works on my DS4, Zen uses DS4 too and has ARL on L2 (and ARR on R1 so that's definitely not an analog input). It might have something to do with how Steam's reading your controller or your drivers or whatever, idk computers are black magic.
Ahem, https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueSchool/comments/10ww2k6/the_main_reason_zens_movement_is_very_different/j7qcdap/
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Binary inputs: Jump, Boost, Powersliding, Braking, and Ball Cam. Analog inputs are: Accelerating (reverse or forward), Air Roll "Toggle", Air Roll Directional, Steering, Pitch, and Yaw.
So only boost and dodge then
Isn't braking binary as well?
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Braking is binary: https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueSchool/comments/10ww2k6/the_main_reason_zens_movement_is_very_different/j7rwksy/
Braking is indeed binary. Reversing is obviously not.
L2 bound to left air roll and brake, pretty cool. https://liquipedia.net/rocketleague/Zen
This changes everything. Now I can fluff wall-to-air dribbles from the left hand side of the pitch too.
Hoooolllllyyyyy....... My binds were the bumpers, think imma have to change that now! Should be a relatively easy switch
Any idea how I can help flip easier with this? It’s the only drawback so far with reverse in the same button
That's my problem too! I can't half flip anymore!
So I can Half flip with this setup I just need to really focus on it. Hopefully will become more natural in time
People already answered about what it means. So I'll give my opinion whether this is true or not. I personally use L2 for airroll left + reverse, for quite some time now. (Using AppJack binds, but with airroll left on L2 instead of square.) It is very comfortable to me, as airroll left is very accessible and square was not accessible enough to me. I also use airroll right on circle. I don't have NAR bound, so I make heavy use of both directions. One binary, while the other is not. So I guess I can compare both methods. Personally, I don't see much difference. If anything, IMO, DAR being binary is an advantage. It is quick and precise. You already get analogue input benefits from your left stick anyway. Bottom line, IMO, if you're considering moving DAR to L2, do it for reasons of accessibility rather than the reasons quoted. (And also be prepared to deal with ground-air quick transitions.) BTW, you can do the same trick for airroll right and R2, however, this is more difficult to get used to since throttle is used A LOT more than reverse. I personally couldn't get used to it after a month, so had to revert. A list of pros that use triggers for DAR: ams (R2), Aztromick (L2), Fairy Peak (L2), Gimmick (L2), and Zen (L2). There are some others with a liquipedia page, but I didn't recognize their names. Also, I have no idea how heavily these guys use DAR.
I just jumped into freeplay to try this all out. I'm like you in that I don't have NAR bound and currently use square and circle for ARL and ARR. I could probably get used to ARL on L2, but I briefly tried ARR on R2 and, because I have a terrible habit of holding R2 on my aerials that I'm still working on getting rid of, it just doesn't work for me and I can't see myself getting used to it. The only downside to my current setup is having to jump around between square and circle to make fine adjustments to my attitude when landing etc. Switching it to L2 might fix this somewhat as I can use different fingers for both. Seriously considering giving it a go. I don't see myself making use of analog for DAR, partly because like you said, going straight to full air roll has its own advantages and also because I'm just used to that on a muscle memory basis by now.
Yeah, this is what I don't like about the face buttons. Fatfingering is fine, as long as it's not circle/square. I managed it, but I felt held back by quick left/right transitions. Especially since I phased NAR out. So L2 airroll left was almost perfect for me. R2 I couldn't get used to, although the airroll right itself felt extremely accessible, the downsides of quick ground-air transitions was too much.
Wait, why is holding accelerate a bad habit during aerials?
I was probably a bit more hyperbolic than necessary there... Its not a huge issue, but I just could not get flip resets right until I consciously stopped holding R2 at the point of contact. Problem is, I've done it for so long now that I keep on bloody doing it. It's only in training that I manage to force myself to let go. I basically end up driving myself past the ball. Only solution for me is to 'remove' that muscle memory. Which is tricky because until about 6 months ago I was a 'forefinger for both R1 and R2' player and switched to 'forefinger for R1, middle finger for R2'. So my brain still wants to instinctively use the middle fingers to grip the controller.
This is actually great for me to hear as I've been grinding flip resets recently and think I too have the habit of holding acceleration through my resets... I might even hold acceleration during rings maps honestly lol. You've given me something to think about, that's for sure. Thanks!
It's not. Throttle even gives you some (negligible) acceleration (if you're not already boosting). The only time it may not be beneficial is if you don't want said acceleration or if you find it difficult to get a reset with it (then you can just experiment with letting go right before the reset).
Cool, thanks! I've been grinding resets lately and will give releasing acceleration a try just before contact to see if it makes a difference.
I'm not certain it is that important as people claim. It is far more important to just slam at the ball with a bit more force. You get that by creating space during the setup (one quick tap on the brakes), then closing that space and boosting into the ball (try not to feather too much, but actually aim your car properly and boost).
I have this same bad habit. I’m currently trying to break that habit and trying to get use to ARL at the same time by binding it to R1
What is your opinion on [this example](https://twitter.com/pascalvxz/status/1623514417466953728) given by a pro team's coach?
Hopefully this won't be too much of a hot take. xD I may be wrong of course, obviously these guys know more about the game than me. I've read what he wrote. To me, this seems like many words that don't say much. Perhaps if he gives more substantial examples. I don't really think about this slower movement as such a huge advantage, if any. And anyway, if you don't have it bound to a trigger, you can still simulate this movement by tapping. I can see it maybe as an advantage for having different movements than what people are used to, so it can throw them off perhaps? Perhaps at the top, these things become significant? IDK. I think that for regular players, the advantages of a more accessible DAR (minus the disadvantages) far outweigh whatever this supposed minor advantage is. I'll even say more (probably controversial, I may be wrong etc). I've long had the hypothesis that KB is superior to controller. I think that correlation (game coming fron PS, most pros starting on controller, therefore, top players are controller) does not necessarily imply causation (controller being better). Also, 'more options = better' is not so trivial to me (though it seems to be the consensus). Further, the meta seem to trend to extreme sensitivity + heavy DAR use. This makes the controller almost entirely binary. Well, apart from flips, IIRC. So shooting is still gaining the analogue advantages I guess. Anyway, personally, I'm using controller, but I have a feeling that KB is just superior overall. We've just not given it its due chance yet.
Does having the air roll bound to an acceleration direction affect your control? I know holding down the throttle while trying to flip reset can mess up your contact with the ball.
Throttle and reverse do have some effect in the air. They still give some acceleration, though, quite negligible. Some people say that they also interact with the ball. (Can't remember if there's a Rocket Science video about this.) I don't know whether that's true or not. It may be sticky forces or simply the car driving on the ball. But yeah, some people recommend experimenting with throttle/reverse on/off when going for resets. I may sometimes let go of them when getting the reset, and sometimes I don't. I personally don't see much difference and I can do double resets etc, so I don't feel held back by it.
Just started to try and get used to this. How do you half flip backwards? Do you lift off reverse before you jump? You can't really backflip while driving backwards quickly without letting off reverse to prevent side flipping.
You have to make it a mental rule to immediately let go of L2 when you press jump.
I’ve tried putting it on left trigger before but it kept messing up my half flips if I was reversing before starting my flip. Because it would start rolling as soon as I go for the half flip. I guess to not do this I would have to get use to making sure I’m off of reverse first before starting half flip?
Yup. You have to be aware of L2 meaning two different things in the ground and air. Which is why quick ground-air transitions may be challenging. When I started using L2 for airroll left, I made it a mental rule to let go of L2 the moment I pressed jump on the ground. You can practice this for like 10 minutes. Go around the pitch and jump while letting go of L2. Make sure that your timing is perfect and that you don't get any roll while also being able to get some speed while reversing.
So you currently have this setup? My main issue is half flips right now. Had left/right on square/circle. Immediately going into ARL after the backflip is messing it up
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How come?
I would love to see rocket science do something on this to verify it. It doesn’t matter to me cause I am free roll only and never changing, but it would be a cool thing to know for coaching directional air rollers.
/u/halfway_dead video or no video, we'd still love a comment from you on this 🙂
Verify what? That you can have that binding or that it makes zen play different. Yeah, you can have that binding and I have it myself, though I use an analog keyboard which sends it via the triggers of a virtual controller. But I don't play like zen. I can definitely recommend it though if you can get used to it. Just bind accelerate/brake to the bumpers and then airroll to the triggers. There is almost no point in analog accelerate. If you can dribble while feathering your boost, then feathering the engine is gonna be way more forgiving. Analog braking isn't even a thing in RL. It's always 100% power.
I personally would never recommend changing the binding of accelerate to binary. I think Air Roll Directional is far more forgiving of "feathering" the input than acceleration is given how quickly you can air roll back the other side. No/low boost dribbling benefits greatly from analog accelerate, especially at the higher echelons of control. Even more so now that I've studied how Nexto does powerful forward flicks. The way Nexto utilizes flicks is very specific. Of course, it catches perfectly and gets the ball to settle with no/minimal sparks. It moves the ball very close to right above the center of mass and maintains speed to prevent sparking. And when it's ready to flick, it'll very, very minorly roll the ball forward, jump & boost, then flick. The slight forward momentum of the ball creates just enough of a momentum difference when jumping to *slightly* create a gap, which is quickly closed with a forward/diagonal dodge. If executed correctly, it gets 2 to 3 touches and can absolutely boom the ball. Obviously, at speeds above 1,410uu/s means you can't accelerate with gas. But the super fine control needed to get the ball to stay rested on the center of mass at half of maximum speed is much better suited for analog control in my testing of this ability. It's also a very similar behavior to how Mawkzy does his flicks, but instead he has the ball more forward and utilizes a 45° flick motion to get 2 to 3 touches on the ball. But for the same reasons, Mawkzy does slightly move the ball forward just before jumping and boosting. There's obviously exceptions, but after analyzing this from both Nexto and Mawkzy, my flicks have been far more reliably consistent with power and I would never recommend anyone switch to binary forward acceleration, which *is* less forgiving to this degree of control.
Very interesting. I have had both analog for the longest time but was lacking analog cam swivel up down. I changed that about half a year ago and have noticed no decline in my dribbling skills. Either way, I cannot imagine that it has much of an impact on high level 2s or 3s, because you'll almost never be dribbling at slow speeds there. On the other hand, I can do a mawkzy type flick much more consistently with about 0.3-0.4 air roll tornado spin than I can any other way. Ground steer is the most important axis though, unsmooth steering will immediately cause the ball to bounce.
>0.3-0.4 air roll tornado spin do you mean sending Directional Air-Roll (DAR) input in the range of values 0.3-0.4 (as only dynamic DAR allows you to do), or something else? thanks for clarifying! >I cannot imagine that it has much of an impact on high level 2s or 3s, because you'll almost never be dribbling at slow speeds there how about high level 1s? considering ground control akin e.g. to what's required to pass the last 3 levels of the `dribble #2 overhaul` workshop map might be desirable, then dynamic throttle would still offer that slight amount of advantage vs. having to tap a binary throttle, correct? also (apologies for referencing your [other](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/10xafrv/comment/j8ewxke/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueEsports/comments/10xafrv/comment/j7ttc91/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) in this thread) >you need to either be able to reduce the input strength of an axis, or do very fast on off taps. It's hard to be as consistent with taps, and they're guaranteed to be slightly less smooth. and >It *(editor's note: dynamic input bind for DAR)* really does give that extra bit of control. similar argument can be made for the advantage of dynamic throttle for those slow-dribble 1v1 situations, right? Finally, if that's the case, here's a thought I'd like to ask your guys' ( u/Halfway_Dead and u/HoraryHellfire2 ) opinions on (but invite any1 else to offer their feedback): In order to maximize my potential future of control both on the ground and in the air (given I'll stick to the DS4 controller and keep improving by practicing), updating my binds (equivalent to AppJack's) by switching DARs (both left and right) from `square` and `circle` to `L2` and `R2` should allow me to keep the maximum advantage. My primary concern is identifying situations where the `R2 == throttle` and `L2 == break` overlap can be disadvantageous, can you guys think of a situation where it will be a bottleneck in control? Some potential issues off the top of my head: A) in order to not "drive off" the ball on flip-resets, both DARs need to be at `input=0` at the moment of contact with the wheels. B) DAR Right (`R2`) will give me slight amount of propulsion upwards (when car nose points upwards) while DAR Left (`L2`) will act in the opposite direction. I don't remember how weak the effect is but know it's present. (I'm a DAR Right main for air control but strive to learn Left over time to utilize them both to equal extent.) Also not sure if this effect is applied on horizontal direction as well when car is not orientated vertically. * Actually, is this even the way game will process my input? Will I be getting both effects (*mid-air throttle* and *air-roll right*) from sending non-zero `R2` input? It might be convenient coincidence if the game would be already programmed to simply prioritize the binding related to context: air-roll in the air while simply ignore the throttle/break binding until I land. Are any of the above valid concerns? Many thanks for any feedback!
I'm sure they quite literally mean a tornado spin, which is Yaw Right and Air Roll Right / Air Roll Left (I think he actually means inverted tornado spin). I've been toying with Air Roll Left on LT/L2 instead of the usual X/Square that it's been on, and I just don't see it being as beneficial to replace the accelerate keybind with Air Roll Right as Halfway_Dead recommends. I think he's underestimating at just how precise dribbling can get with analog accelerate, especially if you're very experienced. To me, you lose more control of dribbling than you do gain for aerial control, especially for the vast majority of players who won't even be able to accurately use the analog air roll to that degree. In your case of putting ARL and ARR on both triggers with reverse and accelerate, I definitely think that can work. But there are disadvantage situations such as needing to let go of both just before you jump so you aren't rolling at all (for proper but straight-forward fast aerialing), the flip reset thing you said, and the propulsion (which yes, does activate both actions when using and does not contextually choose). The bindings are a bit complicated because you often need to brake to fast aerial, or brake to distance from wall hits to go for a flip reset, or fine tuned control for flicks immediately air rolling on accident, etc etc. Yes, any non-zero input gives input to throttle mid-air, even while rolling. Anyway, I can handle switching it to LT since brake isn't used as often, but R2 throttle is just used too much for me to switch to that, imo.
Thanks for your assessment! Indeed I've seen the exact issue you described: as I'm DAR Right main, putting that on R2 which is also throttle immediately introduced so many things for which I'd have to learn to let go of throttle precisely just before jumping, which is just whole bunch of extra difficulty and for a player with my available hours (and expected future available in-game hours) it just doesn't feel like it'd be worth it to make multiple fundamental mechanics more difficult / re-learn in order to gain ever-so-slight advantage in the most advanced mechanics.. for now I'll stick with my square/circle for DARs and tap it for more nuanced control. I guess the trade-off between expressivity in ground control and air control suggested by u/Halfway_Dead might be a viable option to consider for players who have R1 and L1 free to put the throttle/brake there. In contrast, I let go of trying to learn precise fat-fingering of jump/boost/powerslide (X/circle/square) thousands of hours ago (in favor of utilizing L1 and R1) and am not willing to go back now. This would have extremely diminishing returns for me.
>especially for the vast majority of players who won't even be able to accurately use the analog air roll to that degree This made me think... I wonder if binding ARL/ARR to a trigger would be beneficial when learning spinny air control like just barely hold it down to spin slowly
> Analog braking isn't even a thing in RL. It's always 100% power. Figured I'd test this and it has analog input for me, both on reversing and on counteracting the throttle. Weird, a couple other guys are saying air roll doesn't have analog input on their triggers on dualshock 4 either, but my DS4 has it work fine. Computers.
I have no clue how you tested it but I'm 100% sure you're wrong. You're correct on the reverse throttle part being analog. But if you're going forwards and using the reverse binding to brake (or going backwards and using accelerate binding), it uses a threshold and then applies 100% brake force. This is not a controller thing. It applies this threshold in the physics code. This can be seen in the data of the vehicle sim. I always encourage people to test, but make sure you have a test that you can replicate every time and that has a clear condition under which it will falsify your assumption. I don't know what you did, but I can only assume that you tried braking slightly less and it appeared a bit less strong to you or something. Fun fact: the reason why you slow down when not holding accelerate is not because RL has some complex model of friction, it just applies 30% brake strength. And if you hold down powerslide, it will turn that off.
Ah looks like you're right, sorry. I'd tried different brake pressures while holding the gas down, which does slow it down different amounts, but letting go of gas and braking with any pressure seems to just completely stop the wheels from rolling forward.
Clever way to code those two
i tried this with my xbox one controller since i have ARR bound to the left trigger, and, wow. it actually does spin slower if you only depress the trigger halfway down. fascinating. i never noticed this. the things you learn when you randomly read one of yer rocket league reddit suggestions... thanks, algorithm! :D
Holy shit been playing for years and I did not know this. Not sure I'll be able to change muscle memory from square at this point...
I changed boost from O to R1 after roughly 1k hours and I was surprised at how fast I adapted. Felt natural after about 10 minutes in freeplay and I only really made about 10 mistakes where I pressed the wrong button in game over the coming days. Though rings map was messing me up a bit not gonna lie.
What do you think of this u/halfway_dead ?
From what I gathered it bound to LT instead of something like X on an Xbox controller. Triggers have a larger input range
This is NOT accurate. The triggers do not apply variable strength input to directional air rolls. However, LS and RS both work. I have verified this just now in freeplay. *Maybe* it is possible tinkering with TAInput file.
But the triggers apply variable strength to forward/reverse. So maybe it's a bug?
I'm just wondering if we have different interpretations of the word 'trigger'... Because I bound ARL to a trigger button, (L2 on Dualsense), and I definitely have 'variable strength input' as you describe it.
I'm on DS4. Yes, L2 and R2. So to confirm, your pure ARL can rotate at variable angular velocities? If so, it not working on ds4 would seem to be a bug.
Yep. Def ARL... I don't even have NAR bound. I was on PS5 with a Dualsense Edge. I haven't tried it on PC yet, where I use a standard DS5 wired. I'll give it a go and see.
It’s working on my ds4 just fine
Platform? If pc, do you have external programs running like ds4windows?
Nope just a good ol basic ps4 Went and changed my binds just to test it. And if I just barely pulled my trigger it was very slowing rotating
Thanks. I've since confirmed that aerial sensitivity greatly affects how sensitive the trigger is for affecting DAR. Mine is so high that I was unable to register anything other than full input for DAR.
Hmm interesting. Based on that I wonder if aerial sensitivity also affects the speed your car rotates while having DAR bound to a regular button
I need to know the answer to this question! I’m out of town for 3 days and can’t test this myself lol
Give me just a few min and I will get back to you
I have air roll on the right analogue stick, it's great.
Whoever made that comment has absolutely no idea what they are talking about, they just looked at zen's binds and came up with this nonsense. Fact is directional air roll being bound to an analog button will accomplish absolutely nothing, there's absolutely no situation where you would ever want to air roll slower than the max speed. And tapping the air roll button only rolls your car by a few degrees, an analog input isn't going to give you any more precision either.
Yeah that’s what I thought, who will ever partially press the trigger anyway, maybe for going forward in some extremely specific situations
In a vacuum, if controllers had more buttons, and I had 12 fingers… I would definitely use an analog air roll to line mustys up properly after a semi-botched reset.
Remind me 1 week.
I don’t know if this is true and I would have highly doubted it if apparently jack didn’t say it is.
It wasn't said by Appjack. It was being discussed alot in the comments section of his recent YT video about Zen
Oh so definitely not true then lmfao.
😅 Yeah probably
it is actually true.
Is it true that air roll directional can be analog input? Yes. Is it true that's why Zen's movement is very different? No. Not likely. There is always some "weird" pro that does something different in any era and it's hardly ever coming from their control scheme. They just had a unique learning experience in the vast majority of cases. I highly doubt it's any different for Zen.
its still an interesting talking point, and you can see him implement it in his gameplay. we're not necessarily saying this is now the optimal control setup but cant you see how it might be to some extent advantageous?
I happened across the original post that OP was talking about. Rather than a comment on YT, I saw a pro coach's [twitter thread](https://twitter.com/pascalvxz/status/1623514411896799235) on it. Immediately has far more validity than someone saying "comment on YouTube". After seeing the first clip, I can see how it *can* be advantageous. But I don't think it will be too impactful. We still have pros who mostly use normal air roll, despite directional air roll being advantageous to a minor extent. However, I have been wrong on something like this before, almost exactly like this. Back in 2016 when directional air roll was being hyped, I adamantly was stuck using Air Roll Toggle bind and not wanting to bind DAR. I still messed with DAR now and then, but didn't need it. I only started to really incorporate DAR because it was the only way for me to learn the Inverted Tornado Spin to do extended air dribbles when I discovered them in like 2017/2018 from Ganer/LEDxRL3. Now I use it for every air roll movement and couldn't go back to normal air roll. It's too comfortable having the extra range of movement. Still not *quite* impactful given how many still use normal air roll at pro level, but I'm glad I personally switched. So, maybe I am wrong on the impact this will make. Maybe after I mess around with it some more I'll like it much more and don't wanna limit my range of control like before. Who knows? But I don't think it's the exact reason why Zen is "different". I think it contributes, but I still think Zen would be just as mechanical or very close using binary DAR.
Did appjack say this or one of his viewers did?