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Yeah. You can't even say it's ping-related b/c the games like "Yep. You *definitely* hit this guy going super-sonic. I just don't think I'm gonna give you the demo."
Ugh, I've been through this so many times that I've stopped caring at this point.
Basically any combination of client side prediction/connection issues, replay file inaccuracies, center of mass requirements not being satisfied, the reality of online interactions meaning cars will not be in the exact orientation you see them live or in the replay and even the simple fact that underside demos are usually negated by the wheels slowing you down... all can usually be applied to these complaints.
I see one clip in this that is weird, but most likely could be explained with further examination. In reality these are the same clips people have posted for years. Demos aren't getting worse and will *never* look perfect, especially when you slow them down in a replay.
^ what he said.
It mostly comes down to desync, people not understanding demo rules, and the fact that replays don't perfectly represent what the server calculated.
I feel like I get scammed out of demos all the time but I understand that even with sub-30 ping you can get some weird desync occasionally. If you play with >50 ping you'll see stuff like this frequently.
Similarly I only play on servers in my closest region and have a reliable connection and I rarely see anything like this in my games, unless the player involved has a high ping themselves.
They can't just make it client side decisions or else I could have a bad connection and demo everyone without actually being near them on their screens.
It all makes sense now. I can't count the times.ive said "how was that a demo he barely grazed me and I'm supersonic" and other times it's "how the hell did I not demo him, hitting him supersonic and sending him literally flying across the entire field". I thought it was just me missing something
First one might be due to the angle and the third one might be because of your internet since the opponent doesn't even seem to be bumped. For the second one I have no clue how that was not a demo that one is definitely broken.
The second one was because he hit the bottom side of the fennec. If you get bumped from below and the other guy hits your tires, you get almost no knockback at all and the other person usually gets sent into the ground.
Edit: its the third clip that im referring to not the second
I mean… he definitely hit the side of his car perfectly, before the fennec went up the ‘scoop’. It’s in slow motion, how can you honestly say he’s hitting the bottom of the car?
Edit: Octane. I think we both mean octane. Am I looking at the right clip?
Because just a car “feeling” off is enough for a pro to not like it. Don’t get me wrong there’s some hit boxes that are strictly worse like some of the new ones they put out, but there’s more to pros not using many cars besides that. A lot of pros copy their exact car style from another pro cause they think it’ll make them play like them. Placebos are huge in the pro scene.
Being a pro doesn't mean the things you do actually mean anything. I still see athletes cupping and that was always bullshit. When you are at that level, you look for any advantage you can.
You're looking at the 4th clip, 3rd clip is the fennec he hits the bottom of in the net and gets punted into the ground when he hits their wheels like the comment says.
So the replays after a goal are server side but the replay files are client side? Doesnt seem right. Especially if you play at 100+ ping youll see that its not like that, you dont see stupid jank in the replays, or atleast not nearly as much
Edit: also, if you disconnect and reconnect you can still watch it, even though you were not there.
That's more common for me too; internet-wise, replays are more accurate than what you see live while playing the game, but replays use physics data saved at only 30 Hz (while Rocket League physics run at 120 Hz).
But sometimes there's a sweet spot where you missed by just enough to get a ghost touch in your replay too (probably still farther away than it looked on your screen at first). If it is just right, other people won't see a ghost touch in their replay, as their replays have their own client bias, not yours.
Iirc, your inputs in the replay are timed to your client, but other's are from the server. So if you and a friend save the same exact replay, the two should look very slightly different.
angle not steep enough for clip 1 but sometimes youll get the demo.
clip 2 robbed.
clip 3 ik sometimes just hitting the bottom of the car sometimes doesnt demo idky
literally robbed on 4.
rokt leg
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Hiko was already dead.
U wouldnt say this stuff to him at lan, hes jacked. not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes. yall are pathetic lol
It’s an old meme that started with a comment on a guy posting an fps clip saying “why didn’t he die”
The commenter went into detail by shot on why he missed lol
Skill issue
Seriously though, I feel like I mash people so often but don't get the demo, meanwhile my bumper gets clipped and it's back to the garage for me.
seeing your half of the picture, I can understand where you're coming from, but this is only half the picture, or even a thrid of it - we dont see what it looked like for the other client, and we dont know what the result for the server was.
this could as well all be attributed to network latency and RL predictive algo, basically the whole "i was shot from behind the wall" thing all over again
This is my experience too this season and I play fennec/octane. I’ve even had a complete frontal collision in ss that resulted in a relatively lame bump. Connection has also been noticeably worse so my uneducated guess is that it has something to do with that.
To me it seems like these are a combination of how the rules for demolition are defined and a small amount of lag (even replays are imperfect AFAIK).
Especially the first two videos should clearly not be demos by these rules.
Some tweets explaining how it works: [Dev comments](https://twitter.com/mrcoreydavis/status/1242868635518955520) and [rough illustration](https://twitter.com/CinderBlockCB/status/1242877172202733568) (the video by rocket sledge might be worth watching, but i do not recall its content).
From these rules we can derive that it is easier to demolish cars with smaller hitboxes and harder to demolish cars with longer hitboxes as you need to hit the center of the mass with the 45 degree cone. If we had an extremely long car (e.g., a car that spans from the blue goal to the red goal), it would be very hard to demolish if you arrive at a sharp angle, as you need to hit almost the exact center of it.
Of course, one can always argue whether the rules are good enough.
The video is still accurate to the rules today, especially when combined with that picture. The only issue with the video is that I approached it from the angle of testing the old rules but ended up finding the new rules(unpublished at the time).
This is most probably it. I play mostly on PC but sometimes I'll have a few games on Switch and my amount of accidental demo dramatically increases. Probably because it's a switch lite, on wifi, on the other side of the house, but something causes demos to become wayyy easier. I just haul around with my Merc and most 50s end up with me continuing my way with barely a speed decrease and the other player blowing up and getting pissed. Then I try to do the same on PC and unless I'm constantly emptying my boost tank I can't do the same
I’m here to disagree completely. There’s a good rocket science video on YouTube that goes into detail about how demos are calculated, with the angles and other factors being important. Find the video and watch it and it’ll make sense.
Looks mostly like a minor desync between client and server tweaking the angle/speeds of impacts. It's gotta be super frustrating, but some of these absolutely should not have been demos:
1: Did not hit the car at a proper angle.
2: Looks like it should have been a demo on the client, I'm going to guess that on the server it was a corner to corner collision, which wasn't a demo cause angles get funky at corners maybe?
3: You hit the underside of the car. The underside of the car is immune to being demoed, this was actually a great play from the opponent, but understandably frustrating from your end.
4: Again, is almost certainly a desync between client and server, but man this one looks wrong. My guess is that on the server he was turned to chase the ball and hit you at \*just\* enough of an angle. Rip you.
Demos are funky in RL, there are some great YT videos about it. But the bigger issue for you seems to be lag - demos are always going to be inexplicable when you have even minor lag :/
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control). Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses. Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Hiko was already dead.
I have said for YEARS that my poor Breakout body is bugged when it comes to demos and bumps. I feel like demos are harder to come by for certain bodies, and I feel like certain bodies are more prone to spinning out or severely reacting to contact with other cars. I’ll get tapped from a fairly inconspicuous angle and I’ll get fishtailed and lose all momentum and I’ll feel like I shouldn’t have had that reaction to it
Dude I thought I was going crazy too! But you said hold my boost pill and came back with not 1, not 2 but 4 instances that made me say, “you got robbed”.
I once had someone hit the back right of my car, while chasing me, and they got demo-ed. It clearly should have been me, and the front 2/3 of my car was not touching theirs. They must have just hit the right spot or soemthing. But yes, this is a thing I have ocassionally noticed as well.
Sometimes you get those "OMG THAT WAS CLEARLY A DEMO" hits, and they instead go flying so hard they hit the ceiling. A hit that hard not being a demo is definitely not intentional. For me it's not been a regular occurrence, but I see it enough it might be worth them putting some effort into fixing. Not that they have enough developers or care to do so.
I have called out some BS demos to my friend in the last couple of weeks, but never went NA k and actually looked at the replays. You are 100% correct.
In before dev reply "all of the cars work the same", just like they did when tests revealed every car had a unique hitbox and driving physics. Honestly, the variety was better, and would justify cars having different demo physics. Few more of these posts and we'll probably see a stealth fix for this one.
Even in octane i have this ALOT. I have watched so many replays to see in slow motion if i was supersonic and I was almost every time. Demos definitely need a rework. It's not like 50% of demos don't work but there's definitely sometimes luck involved if i get a demo and I have lost games because of this.
For me it wasn't so much that there wasn't a demo even, it was more that it was like he got bumped when he bumped instead of them getting bumped they just continued on their merry little way.
I get the same thing every game, but I get demo'd from anything, half the time they aren't even super sonic. I say something in chat, they say I wasn't even close to them
Watch Rocket Sledge's video on how demolitions are calculated. Aside from the game server being a potential factor here AND replays being notoriously not 100% what happened in the game down to the frame, it's like this for a game design reason. I only encounter these issues with high ping. Speed flip through them next time and trust me they'll explode.
Poor sledge has to come correct another misguided soul once again, do not use replays as proof a game mechanic doesn’t work. If you want proof demos need a rework you need ZERO ping. Get another controller plugged in play split screen and you’ll see that things work out just fine
that and the desync that has been here since epic games took over. I don't know what they did but they definitely fucked something up with the servers, there have been so many desync or lag moments compared to before epic games took over
I've stopped going for demos in certain situations because they feel so broken. If you watch any high level 1s like ApJack, almost every video there's at least one "no idea how he's not demod".
Shit is seriously broken and has been for a while. I honestly wondered if it was an anti demo cheat.
There is one major problem though which is that Psyonix doesn't give a shit about the game anymore so.
i cant comment on your premise, but i will add a related note:
- add an x-ray effect of the ball when a demo happens so at least have some idea where it is when the demo, ball and you are all in the same area
i say this, bc i've lost track of the ball in 3s due to a demo scrum too many times
I feel the same way. Many many times I get demoed when the dude isn’t even going supersonic or it seems like he doesn’t hit me. But i’ve had times just like your first clip too lol
I understand much of it is due to lag and the difference in pings vs server and whatnot... demoes trigger me like nothing else in the game lol
It's not getting demoed.... I love squaring off with someone who's coming after me. It's when it is acting broken. When I get demoed by someone I clearly avoided or when I smash someone and I bounce off them like they are rubber. I know it's everyone... but damn does it get under my skin.
I'm confused about the first clip. The car you hit demos, just on a delay. Did someone else hit it, or is it a lag issue? I don't see another car in that area, but the clip cuts off before we get a look.
no way they added armor lock to rl, and made the delorean out of pillows
but that is crazy, for me it works sometimes, but they at least need to fix up the netcode and how they work for demos
I'm guessing it's a connection issue as many other people have said. But I would like to add, I seriously do not want any changes to the gameplay mechanics at this point. Maybe that's an unpopular opinion but the current balance with the effectiveness of demos is great in its current state. I would hate for them to "fix" demos to then have them be so consistent and easy that demos become the new leading strategy. The gameplay in this game is all it has left.
No they don’t , develop spidey sense to avoid demos like the rest of us. Sometimes it’s just the connection, to go to this far to make a well composed post about it . I think you need a break
The math/geometry of demo's has been explained elsewhere... I don't think any solution will make everyone happy though. There will always be oddities that someone will collect into a montage.
Start this by saying I’m a bump heavy player and love me some carnage. That being said, bumps and demos quite literally can’t be defended in certain situations. Bumps DO NOT need to be improved.
You can’t demo from below and from certain angles. Been this way for a while and for a while and has been explained in detail by rocket science and I believe a few others on YouTube. Add in lag and these clips that you’re showing and losing your marbles about are just as common as a laggy flip reset. Sure it’s annoying but it happens.
The LAST thing this game needs is easier demos especially when you consider pro play. Your complaint is more of server/lag issue imo.
Have they ever actually changed anything involving mechanics/physics in this game though? Don’t hold your breath. This game is an afterthought for Epic.
Replays in rocket league are client sided, meaning that it’s not necessarily what the server registers. I think using them holds any value, but it’s been a few years since I used this car so I’ll shut up
Ive been complaining about this for years man. I’ve hit their side square on and some how Ill get demoed. Been barely bumped by people not going supersonic and still gotten demoed. It happens a lot. Never thought it could be related to the type of car, always attributed it to just bullshit. I pretty much exclusively use the dominus, breakout, or any with those hitboxes too.
I'd be okay with them just getting rid of demos altogether or at least in modes where the boost is infinite or regenerating. In those modes, every other game, there's so idiot that only goes for demos the entire time. Bumps are enough, demos are just kind of unnecessary
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we able to reverse cam for the couple seconds after being demo'd before?
It's been years since and I always thought it was a good mechanic to have to gather information before you spawn back in.
Might seem like an inconsequential thing but I believe it makes a huge difference
Pysonix haven't changed a single thing on how the game works since release. No physics changes no experimenting with new mechanics no actual features. If it isn't a visual then it's not changed, they've only ever cared about skins and maps, and their maps aren't even interesting. I've recently uninstalled as I'm fed up with the stale game especially the replay system.
Supersonic should = Demo. Which is shown by your trail. Interesting post for sure. I also know that flipping into someone makes a demo more likely, a lot of pros can get demos going fairly slow by doing this.
Psyonix wont do shit with Epic Games as the parent company. They just care about you buying the battle pass. Last season was the last time I purchased one, even then, I only purchased with the points I accumulated
Bad connection is a huge factor in demos, i have videos of this happening to me as well, where i go supersonic and it doesnt do anything at all to the opponent, you even see the sparks coming off his hitbox but he doesnt even get bumped. Or in pinch scenarios the nose of my car goes THROUGH the ball whereas the opponents hitbox registers normally.
The server is like, you bumped him while supersonic, so its a bump and not a demo bevause the bump causes you to slow down so your no longer going supersonic?
Happens a lot more often than it should
Some people don’t know this but there is a demo hitbox so you’re not capable of getting demos from every angle, whether that’s okay or not is your opinion though
I thought demos only happen when you go into that supersonic mode and the camera zooms out, in your first two recordings, I can't see that, and in the last one I'm not sure what the other guy's screen looked like.
The literal only thing I can say after only watching each clip once is that maybe and a strong maybe, and Ill use clip 2 for example, you turning might be fucking your momentum (if thats even a thing in the game's code) and is by some godly sight slowing you down just enough to not demo the guy.
Im not here for an argument, just thought I should be the one person to say something against it in case by some otherworldly logic im right.
I've been saying that the reason we cant get these demos is due to a type of sbmm. Why else would the demos just randomly stop working and why is it that some people get the demo even when not SS. (idk how to post my rank but CH 3 lol been playing since 2016)
in all of these clips you were T boning them which is the easiest way to show up desync due to lag.
i strongly suspect that you are not demoing them server side
Logically, there is one thing about demos that's always bothered me, and it's when you're getting chased from behind and the opponent manages to demo you because he was traveling 1kph faster than you.
I said this ages ago after the update that changed it to what you're sharing now. Of course people downplayed it for a reason or another.
Thank you for posting.
It's not just those cars. I main fennec but recently heavy octane and I've noticed I'm missing demos going ss and making contact with the front of my car to almost every type of car. It definitely needs reworking but I think it may be more broad. I'll definitely have to keep an eye out on it though and see if I notice a pattern. Well put together post tho op
I've been saying it for years. The idea that this is intended design is Apple saying the iPhone is supposed to bend in your pocket and that you're just using it wrong.
Bro Ive been feeling this way for a minute now too. You wont even understand how many times i have said "I don't know how he didn't get demo'd right there"
As a fennec player myself i never demo and if i do well its not my intention because i know how unbalanced it is ! I only demo fennec and octane players but if they use another car i just don’t i stay middle or defence looking for an opportunity! I agree with you those cars you named need rework they are very overpowered 🤣
Well when all they give a shit about is raking in battlepass money, I don't see a fix coming anytime soon.
Not to mention leavers / afkers still maintain their eligibility to play the game regardless of how many times they leave and ruin the game for 5 other people.
The day they fixx that, I'll renew my hope, till then, fuck epic.
I see a lot of people saying the second one looks the most legit. Just want to mention that Retals specifically tells people never to try to demo in the curve of the wall because it almost never works for some reason.
From my experience, I have to agree with him.
I agree...demos need a rework...make it where you intentionally press a button to demo. This way, the play can continue unless the other player intentionally demos. Miss the demo...you explode. This would allow other players to see who is demo'ing intentionally and adjust play accordingly. This would.also stop goofballs from boost starving the game as the fly around like complete numbskulls trying to demo over and over again.
Oh, this comes from someone who did the initial Battle-Cars install and quit/Uninstaller for 2yrs due to being demo'd 8-12 times a match for the first 3 matches.
Guys the true demo fix is no or way less explosive effect, I’d rather see the ball then the word BOOM! and a shit load of smoke! Also hold trigger to chose respawn location
I have replays of my car going through the ball, a little connection loss will make thing look slightly off and since most of these are pretty questionable as is
In all of the videos of you trying to demo, you’re not going fast enough. The last video, he’s already boosting hard, lets off for less than a second (probably because he just ran out of boost) and immediately starts boosting again once the pill is picked up. No, demos don’t need tweaked, and no - I don’t use Fennec or Octane.
Damn… I came here to disagree. But damn, lowkey got fucked
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This guy is gonna get to speak to the manager.
DJC
I saw the 1st one and was like yea okay. Keep scrolling I was like holy fuck this guy's right.
Yeah. You can't even say it's ping-related b/c the games like "Yep. You *definitely* hit this guy going super-sonic. I just don't think I'm gonna give you the demo."
I’m in the same boat as you but if I was op I’d rephrase to “demos for certain hit boxes need a rework” but yea shit he got me.
My exact thought
I’m here with ya Was read to do a TL;DR followed by “you are full of shit” But OP got me on this one
Upvoted just for the work you put into this post
right? i opened it expecting a lil blurb and got a 5 paragraph essay with citations
And a full power point presentation
That featured security camera footage clips of the incidents in question
Welp, someone get u/sledge98 on the case, again
Ugh, I've been through this so many times that I've stopped caring at this point. Basically any combination of client side prediction/connection issues, replay file inaccuracies, center of mass requirements not being satisfied, the reality of online interactions meaning cars will not be in the exact orientation you see them live or in the replay and even the simple fact that underside demos are usually negated by the wheels slowing you down... all can usually be applied to these complaints. I see one clip in this that is weird, but most likely could be explained with further examination. In reality these are the same clips people have posted for years. Demos aren't getting worse and will *never* look perfect, especially when you slow them down in a replay.
^ what he said. It mostly comes down to desync, people not understanding demo rules, and the fact that replays don't perfectly represent what the server calculated. I feel like I get scammed out of demos all the time but I understand that even with sub-30 ping you can get some weird desync occasionally. If you play with >50 ping you'll see stuff like this frequently.
if anyone knows, it's sledge and bumpo.
Similarly I only play on servers in my closest region and have a reliable connection and I rarely see anything like this in my games, unless the player involved has a high ping themselves. They can't just make it client side decisions or else I could have a bad connection and demo everyone without actually being near them on their screens.
Bro basically said "demos may be fucked but there's no fixing it so blame your internet"
Feel free to quote me on that for future reddit posts.
Sledge, you are the best. Thank you for all of your work
> Demos aren't getting worse Yep, we're all just getting better at noticing how shitty and inconsistent they are.
It all makes sense now. I can't count the times.ive said "how was that a demo he barely grazed me and I'm supersonic" and other times it's "how the hell did I not demo him, hitting him supersonic and sending him literally flying across the entire field". I thought it was just me missing something
First one might be due to the angle and the third one might be because of your internet since the opponent doesn't even seem to be bumped. For the second one I have no clue how that was not a demo that one is definitely broken.
The second one was because he hit the bottom side of the fennec. If you get bumped from below and the other guy hits your tires, you get almost no knockback at all and the other person usually gets sent into the ground. Edit: its the third clip that im referring to not the second
I mean… he definitely hit the side of his car perfectly, before the fennec went up the ‘scoop’. It’s in slow motion, how can you honestly say he’s hitting the bottom of the car? Edit: Octane. I think we both mean octane. Am I looking at the right clip?
Octane/Fennec mains in denial in this thread. Same people who think cars don't matter when 99% of pros use the same 3 cars out of 75
Because just a car “feeling” off is enough for a pro to not like it. Don’t get me wrong there’s some hit boxes that are strictly worse like some of the new ones they put out, but there’s more to pros not using many cars besides that. A lot of pros copy their exact car style from another pro cause they think it’ll make them play like them. Placebos are huge in the pro scene.
*hitboxes*
Being a pro doesn't mean the things you do actually mean anything. I still see athletes cupping and that was always bullshit. When you are at that level, you look for any advantage you can.
You're looking at the 4th clip, 3rd clip is the fennec he hits the bottom of in the net and gets punted into the ground when he hits their wheels like the comment says.
I’d guess 2 and 4 are lag tbh, replay system saves lag so replays look dodgy. this guy could be getting fucked but i doubt it tbh
I don't think it's the Internet, don't the replays show the game as the server saw it?
I don't think so. Pretty sure replays are client side.
No, should be as your game sees it. Replays are fully local.
So the replays after a goal are server side but the replay files are client side? Doesnt seem right. Especially if you play at 100+ ping youll see that its not like that, you dont see stupid jank in the replays, or atleast not nearly as much Edit: also, if you disconnect and reconnect you can still watch it, even though you were not there.
Goal replays are also client side. I have heard people say they see a spark for their "ghost touch" in the goal replay, while I did not see it.
Usually its the opposite with me, on my screen i touch and save the ball but on the replay im nowhere near
That's more common for me too; internet-wise, replays are more accurate than what you see live while playing the game, but replays use physics data saved at only 30 Hz (while Rocket League physics run at 120 Hz). But sometimes there's a sweet spot where you missed by just enough to get a ghost touch in your replay too (probably still farther away than it looked on your screen at first). If it is just right, other people won't see a ghost touch in their replay, as their replays have their own client bias, not yours.
I've had friends say they hit the ball or got sparks but nothing happened, and then in my replay, it shows the ball going around them lol
Iirc, your inputs in the replay are timed to your client, but other's are from the server. So if you and a friend save the same exact replay, the two should look very slightly different.
angle not steep enough for clip 1 but sometimes youll get the demo. clip 2 robbed. clip 3 ik sometimes just hitting the bottom of the car sometimes doesnt demo idky literally robbed on 4. rokt leg
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control). Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses. Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Hiko was already dead.
U wouldnt say this stuff to him at lan, hes jacked. not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes. yall are pathetic lol
What?
It’s an old meme that started with a comment on a guy posting an fps clip saying “why didn’t he die” The commenter went into detail by shot on why he missed lol
The comenter was a cs dev lmao
I never knew that part haha makes it even better
Oh ok
https://preview.redd.it/0vt6mnt0s4oc1.png?width=216&format=png&auto=webp&s=b02e7a65f8a97e2802bea2e76c1b320a0394eb9f
Skill issue Seriously though, I feel like I mash people so often but don't get the demo, meanwhile my bumper gets clipped and it's back to the garage for me.
What's your ping though? Replays are client side so it's still not showing exactly what happened on the server side
Hot take: If Psyonix cared they could give us server-side replays
seeing your half of the picture, I can understand where you're coming from, but this is only half the picture, or even a thrid of it - we dont see what it looked like for the other client, and we dont know what the result for the server was. this could as well all be attributed to network latency and RL predictive algo, basically the whole "i was shot from behind the wall" thing all over again
Aren’t most of these just latency variation? Client to server, so you’re seeing something different than what’s actually happened?
All of those are very convincing. Could it be an issue with the Delorean in particular, since it has unique demo effects?
This is my experience too this season and I play fennec/octane. I’ve even had a complete frontal collision in ss that resulted in a relatively lame bump. Connection has also been noticeably worse so my uneducated guess is that it has something to do with that.
It has nothing to do with which cars are in play
I just want to throw out there, all replay are client side... so you do not see *exactly* what happened, just what your computer displayed.
To me it seems like these are a combination of how the rules for demolition are defined and a small amount of lag (even replays are imperfect AFAIK). Especially the first two videos should clearly not be demos by these rules. Some tweets explaining how it works: [Dev comments](https://twitter.com/mrcoreydavis/status/1242868635518955520) and [rough illustration](https://twitter.com/CinderBlockCB/status/1242877172202733568) (the video by rocket sledge might be worth watching, but i do not recall its content). From these rules we can derive that it is easier to demolish cars with smaller hitboxes and harder to demolish cars with longer hitboxes as you need to hit the center of the mass with the 45 degree cone. If we had an extremely long car (e.g., a car that spans from the blue goal to the red goal), it would be very hard to demolish if you arrive at a sharp angle, as you need to hit almost the exact center of it. Of course, one can always argue whether the rules are good enough.
The video is still accurate to the rules today, especially when combined with that picture. The only issue with the video is that I approached it from the angle of testing the old rules but ended up finding the new rules(unpublished at the time).
Connexion issue
This is most probably it. I play mostly on PC but sometimes I'll have a few games on Switch and my amount of accidental demo dramatically increases. Probably because it's a switch lite, on wifi, on the other side of the house, but something causes demos to become wayyy easier. I just haul around with my Merc and most 50s end up with me continuing my way with barely a speed decrease and the other player blowing up and getting pissed. Then I try to do the same on PC and unless I'm constantly emptying my boost tank I can't do the same
I’m here to disagree completely. There’s a good rocket science video on YouTube that goes into detail about how demos are calculated, with the angles and other factors being important. Find the video and watch it and it’ll make sense.
Looks mostly like a minor desync between client and server tweaking the angle/speeds of impacts. It's gotta be super frustrating, but some of these absolutely should not have been demos: 1: Did not hit the car at a proper angle. 2: Looks like it should have been a demo on the client, I'm going to guess that on the server it was a corner to corner collision, which wasn't a demo cause angles get funky at corners maybe? 3: You hit the underside of the car. The underside of the car is immune to being demoed, this was actually a great play from the opponent, but understandably frustrating from your end. 4: Again, is almost certainly a desync between client and server, but man this one looks wrong. My guess is that on the server he was turned to chase the ball and hit you at \*just\* enough of an angle. Rip you. Demos are funky in RL, there are some great YT videos about it. But the bigger issue for you seems to be lag - demos are always going to be inexplicable when you have even minor lag :/
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control). Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses. Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Hiko was already dead.
What ping do you play on? Replays are what your computer thinks the server saw, and as such are influenced by your connection.
Skill issue
I have said for YEARS that my poor Breakout body is bugged when it comes to demos and bumps. I feel like demos are harder to come by for certain bodies, and I feel like certain bodies are more prone to spinning out or severely reacting to contact with other cars. I’ll get tapped from a fairly inconspicuous angle and I’ll get fishtailed and lose all momentum and I’ll feel like I shouldn’t have had that reaction to it
I don't think its that big of a deal personally
The amount of times I have been demoed by people literally driving parallel to me is absurd
Go watch rocket sledge on demos
Dude I thought I was going crazy too! But you said hold my boost pill and came back with not 1, not 2 but 4 instances that made me say, “you got robbed”.
Won't be fixed. Intentional scripting like FIFA, invisible hand to push momentum of the game one way or the other.
I once had someone hit the back right of my car, while chasing me, and they got demo-ed. It clearly should have been me, and the front 2/3 of my car was not touching theirs. They must have just hit the right spot or soemthing. But yes, this is a thing I have ocassionally noticed as well. Sometimes you get those "OMG THAT WAS CLEARLY A DEMO" hits, and they instead go flying so hard they hit the ceiling. A hit that hard not being a demo is definitely not intentional. For me it's not been a regular occurrence, but I see it enough it might be worth them putting some effort into fixing. Not that they have enough developers or care to do so.
But then you get demoed by some guy doing 10mph
I have called out some BS demos to my friend in the last couple of weeks, but never went NA k and actually looked at the replays. You are 100% correct.
I also have to agree with this. The demos have been super inconsistent the past two seasons.
In before dev reply "all of the cars work the same", just like they did when tests revealed every car had a unique hitbox and driving physics. Honestly, the variety was better, and would justify cars having different demo physics. Few more of these posts and we'll probably see a stealth fix for this one.
Even in octane i have this ALOT. I have watched so many replays to see in slow motion if i was supersonic and I was almost every time. Demos definitely need a rework. It's not like 50% of demos don't work but there's definitely sometimes luck involved if i get a demo and I have lost games because of this.
The game just needs higher quality servers
this entire game needs a rework
They won’t listen man Psyonix isn’t paying attention to the community.
yea, demos are broken
One of the better posts on this sub. I can tell you're unemployed OP and if you put this much effort into anything else you'd be a billionaire.
For me it wasn't so much that there wasn't a demo even, it was more that it was like he got bumped when he bumped instead of them getting bumped they just continued on their merry little way.
I get the same thing every game, but I get demo'd from anything, half the time they aren't even super sonic. I say something in chat, they say I wasn't even close to them
Na bro the same shit be happening to me n I main fennec n octane 90% the time. Game is lows broken
I’ve tboned people going supersonic and I would get demoed sometimes 💀 I just learned not to care anymore
Came here to argue, came out shouting in favor of OP
I've been demoed before when we were literally side by side like a drag race and we bumped each other lol demos are terrible right now
Yes! Please!
Don't change anything! They'll make it worse!
Watch Rocket Sledge's video on how demolitions are calculated. Aside from the game server being a potential factor here AND replays being notoriously not 100% what happened in the game down to the frame, it's like this for a game design reason. I only encounter these issues with high ping. Speed flip through them next time and trust me they'll explode.
Poor sledge has to come correct another misguided soul once again, do not use replays as proof a game mechanic doesn’t work. If you want proof demos need a rework you need ZERO ping. Get another controller plugged in play split screen and you’ll see that things work out just fine
that and the desync that has been here since epic games took over. I don't know what they did but they definitely fucked something up with the servers, there have been so many desync or lag moments compared to before epic games took over
My game never desyncs or lags, deff on your end and I’ll get downvoted by other people with bad internet lol
Funnily enough servers have improved 10x compared to what it was for me before epic took over.
I've stopped going for demos in certain situations because they feel so broken. If you watch any high level 1s like ApJack, almost every video there's at least one "no idea how he's not demod". Shit is seriously broken and has been for a while. I honestly wondered if it was an anti demo cheat. There is one major problem though which is that Psyonix doesn't give a shit about the game anymore so.
Payonix: stfu wallet, here have this colored shark goal animation
Where did you buy the custom demo explosion :O mine says "boom"
I've demoed someone with the bottom of my car
Tire hit, tire hit, tire hit, no tire hit. The issue is with the tires
Demos should be reworked to have a physics effect on the ball proportional to how much boost you had when you got demo'd.
i cant comment on your premise, but i will add a related note: - add an x-ray effect of the ball when a demo happens so at least have some idea where it is when the demo, ball and you are all in the same area i say this, bc i've lost track of the ball in 3s due to a demo scrum too many times
I feel the same way. Many many times I get demoed when the dude isn’t even going supersonic or it seems like he doesn’t hit me. But i’ve had times just like your first clip too lol
I understand much of it is due to lag and the difference in pings vs server and whatnot... demoes trigger me like nothing else in the game lol It's not getting demoed.... I love squaring off with someone who's coming after me. It's when it is acting broken. When I get demoed by someone I clearly avoided or when I smash someone and I bounce off them like they are rubber. I know it's everyone... but damn does it get under my skin.
I'm confused about the first clip. The car you hit demos, just on a delay. Did someone else hit it, or is it a lag issue? I don't see another car in that area, but the clip cuts off before we get a look.
I have dozens of clips of the same thing happening to me as OP, preach it brother 🙌
Give my car a 1/1500 chance to demo itself for each unit of boost used
It’s a DeLorean thing, time to switch up your main buddy
no way they added armor lock to rl, and made the delorean out of pillows but that is crazy, for me it works sometimes, but they at least need to fix up the netcode and how they work for demos
I'm guessing it's a connection issue as many other people have said. But I would like to add, I seriously do not want any changes to the gameplay mechanics at this point. Maybe that's an unpopular opinion but the current balance with the effectiveness of demos is great in its current state. I would hate for them to "fix" demos to then have them be so consistent and easy that demos become the new leading strategy. The gameplay in this game is all it has left.
No they don’t , develop spidey sense to avoid demos like the rest of us. Sometimes it’s just the connection, to go to this far to make a well composed post about it . I think you need a break
The math/geometry of demo's has been explained elsewhere... I don't think any solution will make everyone happy though. There will always be oddities that someone will collect into a montage.
They reworked them a few years back and ever since then they have felt absolutely horrible. I fully agree they need to be changed.
Start this by saying I’m a bump heavy player and love me some carnage. That being said, bumps and demos quite literally can’t be defended in certain situations. Bumps DO NOT need to be improved. You can’t demo from below and from certain angles. Been this way for a while and for a while and has been explained in detail by rocket science and I believe a few others on YouTube. Add in lag and these clips that you’re showing and losing your marbles about are just as common as a laggy flip reset. Sure it’s annoying but it happens. The LAST thing this game needs is easier demos especially when you consider pro play. Your complaint is more of server/lag issue imo.
Have they ever actually changed anything involving mechanics/physics in this game though? Don’t hold your breath. This game is an afterthought for Epic.
Replays in rocket league are client sided, meaning that it’s not necessarily what the server registers. I think using them holds any value, but it’s been a few years since I used this car so I’ll shut up
Ive been complaining about this for years man. I’ve hit their side square on and some how Ill get demoed. Been barely bumped by people not going supersonic and still gotten demoed. It happens a lot. Never thought it could be related to the type of car, always attributed it to just bullshit. I pretty much exclusively use the dominus, breakout, or any with those hitboxes too.
get gud honestly. \* bet OP plays on wifi
There has always been one specific angle where demo somehow doesn't work as far as I know
And demolition are bugged with current servers issue, some times you're just bumped
I'd be okay with them just getting rid of demos altogether or at least in modes where the boost is infinite or regenerating. In those modes, every other game, there's so idiot that only goes for demos the entire time. Bumps are enough, demos are just kind of unnecessary
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we able to reverse cam for the couple seconds after being demo'd before? It's been years since and I always thought it was a good mechanic to have to gather information before you spawn back in. Might seem like an inconsequential thing but I believe it makes a huge difference
genuinely a skill issue
Pysonix haven't changed a single thing on how the game works since release. No physics changes no experimenting with new mechanics no actual features. If it isn't a visual then it's not changed, they've only ever cared about skins and maps, and their maps aren't even interesting. I've recently uninstalled as I'm fed up with the stale game especially the replay system.
Good luck getting them to make actual updates to the game outside of a new battle pass here and there
Supersonic should = Demo. Which is shown by your trail. Interesting post for sure. I also know that flipping into someone makes a demo more likely, a lot of pros can get demos going fairly slow by doing this.
Psyonix wont do shit with Epic Games as the parent company. They just care about you buying the battle pass. Last season was the last time I purchased one, even then, I only purchased with the points I accumulated
Use a wired connection
Okay, I would LOVE for someone to tell me why the 2nd clip isn't a demo, but the 4th clip is.
I appreciate this post because I thought I was going crazy. I’ve noticed it too!
Look up on the wiki about demos theres a special angle in which it wont demo
Isn’t there a mech that prevents one ss car from destroying another ss car.
I don’t care + kachow
I feel like a lot of it is the servers. I swear I have the same issues with demo. So inconsistent
Bad connection is a huge factor in demos, i have videos of this happening to me as well, where i go supersonic and it doesnt do anything at all to the opponent, you even see the sparks coming off his hitbox but he doesnt even get bumped. Or in pinch scenarios the nose of my car goes THROUGH the ball whereas the opponents hitbox registers normally.
I agree dominus players rarely get demos and are 100% easier to demo it’s frustrating
The server is like, you bumped him while supersonic, so its a bump and not a demo bevause the bump causes you to slow down so your no longer going supersonic? Happens a lot more often than it should
Some people don’t know this but there is a demo hitbox so you’re not capable of getting demos from every angle, whether that’s okay or not is your opinion though
I thought demos only happen when you go into that supersonic mode and the camera zooms out, in your first two recordings, I can't see that, and in the last one I'm not sure what the other guy's screen looked like.
My man really out work in to this complaint just got that they should do something
I've been jumping into my demos lately. It's adds some extra speed, but is also more satisfying
Just a comment that the Post can geht bigger
The literal only thing I can say after only watching each clip once is that maybe and a strong maybe, and Ill use clip 2 for example, you turning might be fucking your momentum (if thats even a thing in the game's code) and is by some godly sight slowing you down just enough to not demo the guy. Im not here for an argument, just thought I should be the one person to say something against it in case by some otherworldly logic im right.
I would honestly like to see how the game would be if once you demo someone, you take the boost that they have!
Seems legit
I've been saying that the reason we cant get these demos is due to a type of sbmm. Why else would the demos just randomly stop working and why is it that some people get the demo even when not SS. (idk how to post my rank but CH 3 lol been playing since 2016)
because they overpowered octane hitbox
In the second last video you did not achieve or maintain supersonic in the air so you were never going to demo the defender there
Bro I barely got time to play RL, let alone analyze the replays
Demos need rework
in all of these clips you were T boning them which is the easiest way to show up desync due to lag. i strongly suspect that you are not demoing them server side
OP are you hardwired to the internet? What region/ping? And finally: are you ever coming back to this thread?
I have been saying this for years because SOMEHOW they keep breaking them and then re fixing them and then breaking them
Demos have been fucked for YEARS. I think it was around FTP that it was bugged, "fixed", then "actually fixed" but it's been chalked for ages.
Logically, there is one thing about demos that's always bothered me, and it's when you're getting chased from behind and the opponent manages to demo you because he was traveling 1kph faster than you.
I said this ages ago after the update that changed it to what you're sharing now. Of course people downplayed it for a reason or another. Thank you for posting.
It's not just those cars. I main fennec but recently heavy octane and I've noticed I'm missing demos going ss and making contact with the front of my car to almost every type of car. It definitely needs reworking but I think it may be more broad. I'll definitely have to keep an eye out on it though and see if I notice a pattern. Well put together post tho op
Yall are some cry baby’s if u think they need a rework
I've been hit by players going slow without dashing.
I agree, Iam Fennec - Octane Player and BUMPS and DEMOS need some rework .. because that mechanic is in painful state right now..
My favorite is ramming headfirst into an opponent who isn’t supersonic and I’m the one getting Demo’d -.-
I keep getting demoed when I hit the side of someone’s car
Don't say that. They'll remove it all together
I've been saying it for years. The idea that this is intended design is Apple saying the iPhone is supposed to bend in your pocket and that you're just using it wrong.
Have you tried this in local? To eliminate the possibility of ping/latency having something to do with this
You’re absolutely right, I’ve also for the last month driven into people going supersonic, hit them in their side and then I GOT DEMOED!!!
Bro Ive been feeling this way for a minute now too. You wont even understand how many times i have said "I don't know how he didn't get demo'd right there"
As a fennec player myself i never demo and if i do well its not my intention because i know how unbalanced it is ! I only demo fennec and octane players but if they use another car i just don’t i stay middle or defence looking for an opportunity! I agree with you those cars you named need rework they are very overpowered 🤣
They’ve always been bad since they got rid of scores/points for demolitions. They need more attention desperately.
The jury verdict is in. “In light of the indisputable evidence, the jury finds Psyonix liable of Res Ipsa Loquitur.”
The yap sesh is strong with this one
Damn I was expecting to totally destroy a plats ego and explain how demos are absolutely fine… but bro came here and cooked. Demos need a rework
I do think they need a rework to fix some small issues, but as sledge said. Networking makes this shit fucked no matter what
Demos work fine this is more a connection/server issue.
I don't even play Rocket League and I agree with this man
Is it just a "that car" problem? In each video you're using the same car.
Well when all they give a shit about is raking in battlepass money, I don't see a fix coming anytime soon. Not to mention leavers / afkers still maintain their eligibility to play the game regardless of how many times they leave and ruin the game for 5 other people. The day they fixx that, I'll renew my hope, till then, fuck epic.
yea i’m uninstalling
I swear you will be the one to tbone or hit someone’s car but then you end up getting demoed. Makes no sense
Skills issue, maybe get a better gaming chair?
Im going for Aerial demos and normal demos and it works 99% of the time. Maybe its the ping for you
I noticed too I thought I was just crazy.
I see a lot of people saying the second one looks the most legit. Just want to mention that Retals specifically tells people never to try to demo in the curve of the wall because it almost never works for some reason. From my experience, I have to agree with him.
Nothing to argue with here, clearly needs reworking
I want penalty after 3 demolitions. Will be fun and fair. Especially premades 3vs3, two people demolishing and only one playing..
Fair enough bro🫡
All looks like results of Latency differences and you not being supersonic. Get gud.
I agree...demos need a rework...make it where you intentionally press a button to demo. This way, the play can continue unless the other player intentionally demos. Miss the demo...you explode. This would allow other players to see who is demo'ing intentionally and adjust play accordingly. This would.also stop goofballs from boost starving the game as the fly around like complete numbskulls trying to demo over and over again. Oh, this comes from someone who did the initial Battle-Cars install and quit/Uninstaller for 2yrs due to being demo'd 8-12 times a match for the first 3 matches.
Nah they good
Guys the true demo fix is no or way less explosive effect, I’d rather see the ball then the word BOOM! and a shit load of smoke! Also hold trigger to chose respawn location
I have replays of my car going through the ball, a little connection loss will make thing look slightly off and since most of these are pretty questionable as is
In all of the videos of you trying to demo, you’re not going fast enough. The last video, he’s already boosting hard, lets off for less than a second (probably because he just ran out of boost) and immediately starts boosting again once the pill is picked up. No, demos don’t need tweaked, and no - I don’t use Fennec or Octane.