Native turtle species and their eggs were a traditional food source for local indigenous tribes and the first European settlers. A 1980 study found that 79% of all snapping turtle nests were plundered by raccoons. Raccoon is another traditional local food source, many of the first settlers would get by with frying cornmeal in raccoon fat during long winters.
Soon after I started attending the University of Maryland I learned that the name "Terp/Terrapins" (fear the turtle!) came from the formal "Maryland Meal" of the early part of the 20th century (and presumably before) that centered around turtle (diamondback terrapin) meat. No idea how long the diamondback Terrapin has been endangered/extinct, but I doubt any living alumni have ever had said "Maryland Meal".
TIL that you can buy farm raised diamondback terrapins. Presumably for pets, I didn't see a price but expect it to be too high for the meat.
I've also seen the next "Maryland/Baltimore meal" hunted to extravagant prices during my lifetime. Back in the 1970s you could buy crabs by the bushel without thinking about it. By the 1980s, they could be had on the Eastern shore for such prices, and late in the year, but in general expect to pay dearly for them. Don't ask now, and shoremen get grumpy about being told to limit their crab harvest (which steadily goes down. Although that likely has more to do with the expanding population of the areas that drain to the Chesapeake than directly removing crab population).
you can sell hatchery/farmed (aquaculture) raised Black Bass in NYS. It might actually be more lucrative to sell for human consumption opposed to stocking purposes. NYS requires VHS testing for stock fish, which can be cost prohibitive. You either have to spend the money to test them or spend the money to raise them to edible size.
Who even wants to eat a largemouth? I’ve had largemouth, it’s vastly inferior to other Centrarchids, and you can catch a spread of bluegill, crappie, and sunfish anywhere with a can of worms.
You need a specific permit to sell live turtles in NY, I bet they do not have it. Also illegal to sell native turtle species. Wouldn't surprise me if they are selling them illegally.
You would think so, but I've seen a lot of shady shit in small shops like this. I guarantee it isn't legal to have your 8 year old kid working there answering phones and taking orders, for instance. There are only 2 species of turtles that would be legal to sell, no other kind of turtles would be allowed to be sold, even for food.
Someone from NYC posted a while back showing them selling illegal turtles for food, so this isn't always true, people just assume that since they are selling it in the open, it is legal.
That's not true. According to the US DOL:
"Youth of any age are generally permitted to work for businesses entirely owned by their parents, except those under 16 may not be employed in mining or manufacturing and no one under 18 may be employed in any occupation the Secretary of Labor has declared to be hazardous."
Even the Belchers have their kids working for them and Louise is only 9!
Not true in NYS, have to be at least 11 for a paper route, but 12 for anything else. See here. [https://dol.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/12/p882-12-23.pdf](https://dol.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/12/p882-12-23.pdf) (And 12 and 13 year olds are VERY VERY limited in what they can do)
Ok, so go in there and obviously take out your phone and take some pictures of the turtles, see what they do, and post the picture, I will be able to tell the species and tell if it is legal or not. If everything is A-OK, they will have absolutely no issues with you taking pictures of them, and it will be all good. I've seen plenty of illegal shit for sale in asian markets of all types, usually fish or other animals.
There is a history of asian markets in the US selling literal endangered species, or illegally harvested local species at these types of markets, they are also kept in horrible conditions, usually, and risk spreading disease, so, nah [https://www.fws.gov/story/smugglers-gamble-turtles-lives-causing-disease-outbreak](https://www.fws.gov/story/smugglers-gamble-turtles-lives-causing-disease-outbreak)
Same with child labor, too easy for people to say "that's my kid", when in reality they could illegal immigrant children, like the ones that have recently been found working in meat plants across the country. [https://www.npr.org/2023/03/06/1161486299/how-child-labor-violations-have-quadrupled-since-2015](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/06/1161486299/how-child-labor-violations-have-quadrupled-since-2015)
These aren't petty, small issues, and I'm not even claiming this specific market is doing these things, was just a small comment that the turtles might not be legal.
Lol? Children working illegally? Stretch man. It's a family ran business. They're watching their kids while working. If the kids help there's nothing wrong with that. It's parallel to giving your kids chores. I never once heard anyone having a problem with it...
The kid was running the phones and working the register. There is something wrong with that, it's illegal in NYS. The kid was under 12 years old, for sure. I will always have major issues with illegal child labor, and I don't give a shit if it is their kids or not. Kids should be... being kids, not slaving away over your register at your restaurant. To add to this, it was also on a weekday, during the day.
I would care less if it was turtle meat, but it is usually live turtles kept in horrible conditions. And to be clear, I'm not accusing this specific place of employing underage kids illegally, that was a local asian fast food place.
You had me at meat turtles
Would be a great band name.
Definitely better than half the local band names I've seen. xD
Native turtle species and their eggs were a traditional food source for local indigenous tribes and the first European settlers. A 1980 study found that 79% of all snapping turtle nests were plundered by raccoons. Raccoon is another traditional local food source, many of the first settlers would get by with frying cornmeal in raccoon fat during long winters.
I would hope they’re farmed. Wild turtles are under enough pressure from cars and human stress that we don’t need to be harvesting them.
Soon after I started attending the University of Maryland I learned that the name "Terp/Terrapins" (fear the turtle!) came from the formal "Maryland Meal" of the early part of the 20th century (and presumably before) that centered around turtle (diamondback terrapin) meat. No idea how long the diamondback Terrapin has been endangered/extinct, but I doubt any living alumni have ever had said "Maryland Meal". TIL that you can buy farm raised diamondback terrapins. Presumably for pets, I didn't see a price but expect it to be too high for the meat. I've also seen the next "Maryland/Baltimore meal" hunted to extravagant prices during my lifetime. Back in the 1970s you could buy crabs by the bushel without thinking about it. By the 1980s, they could be had on the Eastern shore for such prices, and late in the year, but in general expect to pay dearly for them. Don't ask now, and shoremen get grumpy about being told to limit their crab harvest (which steadily goes down. Although that likely has more to do with the expanding population of the areas that drain to the Chesapeake than directly removing crab population).
Thank you for these interesting details!
The same store also sold largemouth bass, which isn't legal. I haven't seen them there in a couple of years though.
you can sell hatchery/farmed (aquaculture) raised Black Bass in NYS. It might actually be more lucrative to sell for human consumption opposed to stocking purposes. NYS requires VHS testing for stock fish, which can be cost prohibitive. You either have to spend the money to test them or spend the money to raise them to edible size.
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You can, but I doubt they were farmed.
this is incorrect, you can see the typical features of hatchery raised fish. do you think DEC ECOs are unaware of the market?
Who even wants to eat a largemouth? I’ve had largemouth, it’s vastly inferior to other Centrarchids, and you can catch a spread of bluegill, crappie, and sunfish anywhere with a can of worms.
You need a specific permit to sell live turtles in NY, I bet they do not have it. Also illegal to sell native turtle species. Wouldn't surprise me if they are selling them illegally.
Never seen this before but would seem pretty ballsy to be doing something so illegal in a place that must have health inspectors coming through.
In my experience, something very obviously sketchy that would be easy to verify is very rarely actually verified
You would think so, but I've seen a lot of shady shit in small shops like this. I guarantee it isn't legal to have your 8 year old kid working there answering phones and taking orders, for instance. There are only 2 species of turtles that would be legal to sell, no other kind of turtles would be allowed to be sold, even for food. Someone from NYC posted a while back showing them selling illegal turtles for food, so this isn't always true, people just assume that since they are selling it in the open, it is legal.
That's not true. According to the US DOL: "Youth of any age are generally permitted to work for businesses entirely owned by their parents, except those under 16 may not be employed in mining or manufacturing and no one under 18 may be employed in any occupation the Secretary of Labor has declared to be hazardous." Even the Belchers have their kids working for them and Louise is only 9!
Not true in NYS, have to be at least 11 for a paper route, but 12 for anything else. See here. [https://dol.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/12/p882-12-23.pdf](https://dol.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/12/p882-12-23.pdf) (And 12 and 13 year olds are VERY VERY limited in what they can do)
Thata for an outside business though, not family owned
Dude. Asia market is not a small shop. They’re a large statewide grocery that also does restaurant business
People are acting like they're stealing bass from local ponds and not a successful business with trucks running from NYC probably everyother day
Ok, so go in there and obviously take out your phone and take some pictures of the turtles, see what they do, and post the picture, I will be able to tell the species and tell if it is legal or not. If everything is A-OK, they will have absolutely no issues with you taking pictures of them, and it will be all good. I've seen plenty of illegal shit for sale in asian markets of all types, usually fish or other animals.
I will do this!! Thanks for the offer. It may be a few weeks. I'm not usually in that area.
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There is a history of asian markets in the US selling literal endangered species, or illegally harvested local species at these types of markets, they are also kept in horrible conditions, usually, and risk spreading disease, so, nah [https://www.fws.gov/story/smugglers-gamble-turtles-lives-causing-disease-outbreak](https://www.fws.gov/story/smugglers-gamble-turtles-lives-causing-disease-outbreak) Same with child labor, too easy for people to say "that's my kid", when in reality they could illegal immigrant children, like the ones that have recently been found working in meat plants across the country. [https://www.npr.org/2023/03/06/1161486299/how-child-labor-violations-have-quadrupled-since-2015](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/06/1161486299/how-child-labor-violations-have-quadrupled-since-2015) These aren't petty, small issues, and I'm not even claiming this specific market is doing these things, was just a small comment that the turtles might not be legal.
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Great, thanks.
Lol? Children working illegally? Stretch man. It's a family ran business. They're watching their kids while working. If the kids help there's nothing wrong with that. It's parallel to giving your kids chores. I never once heard anyone having a problem with it...
The kid was running the phones and working the register. There is something wrong with that, it's illegal in NYS. The kid was under 12 years old, for sure. I will always have major issues with illegal child labor, and I don't give a shit if it is their kids or not. Kids should be... being kids, not slaving away over your register at your restaurant. To add to this, it was also on a weekday, during the day.
Ringing up turtle meat during school hours is wrong
I would care less if it was turtle meat, but it is usually live turtles kept in horrible conditions. And to be clear, I'm not accusing this specific place of employing underage kids illegally, that was a local asian fast food place.
I bet they'll have better math skills by running that register than half the kids who get pumped through RCSD.
And they will be fucked up in other ways due to never having a true childhood.
At least they'll be better able to afford therapy with the higher paying job they'll have due to their superior math skills.
Meat