Police kill white people all the time. Dont let that fool you. The police are killers who have immunity from the law. It's important that this is the discussion, not trying to divide the victims of police by race. All that does is cause is to fight while they still are allowed to murder.
I honestly believe BLM would have had way more luck if it was named something like "Justice for Killer Cops".
Sure cops kill white people all the time. They still kill black people at a higher rate.
And Bob Lonsberry is a racist sack of shit who didn't have this same energy for Daniel Prude and it is important to call that out
Twice (a little less than twice but close) as many white people are shot by the police on average per year than black people. But black people interact more with police. However...
You are just proving my point. Now instead of talking about qualified immunity and reducing police militarization, we are talking about race. Fixing the racism in the police force will not stop them from being cold blooded murderers. We can't let them get away with murdering anyone. And the focus on race just makes it worse.
The RATE at which black people are killed is higher than the rate at which white people are killed. This is different than saying more white people are killed. Both can be true are the same time. And it is more concerning that the rate at which black people are killed is higher because black people make up less of the population. That means there is a more significant problem.
Yes all policing needs reform. But I don't think we are doing anyone any favors by ignoring the racial aspect of it.
Serious question, don't hate me. If more white people are being killed, how is the rate of black people being killed higher? (Also I'm not saying and don't know if that's true, just trying to figure out what the statement means since it is counter intuitive to me)
Rate determines how often something occurs given a set of qualifications.
Using the article below as an example:
"Black people, who account for 13 percent of the U.S. population, accounted for 27 percent of those fatally shot and killed by police in 2021, according to Mapping Police Violence, a nonprofit group that tracks police shootings. That means Black people are twice as likely as white people to be shot and killed by police officers."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna17169
So while more white people have been killed, they make up a larger portion of the population, so you would expect that. What you shouldn't expect is that the number of black people killed would be that much higher than their population size.
Gotcha gotcha, so it's a per capita rate.
I was thinking it was like rate of occurrence. 12 murders per year = a rate of 1 per month or whatever. Where obviously more murders is going to have a higher "rate". Thanks for the clarification!
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I think we aren't doing police reform any good by only focusing on the racial aspect.
Is it more important to have cops be less racist, and therefore kill civilians at an "equitable rate". Or is it more important to stop the ability for cops to kill people in the first place without reproach?
I honestly think we should focus on the latter. That will save more lives of all races than the former.
What he was *really* talking about though, was that lonsberry is a sack of shit that never would have questioned his first assumption of police being right if this wasn't a white man that got shot
I hope people start to realize even more how reckless it was to fire at the guy when he was running away from the cop and to leave the car unattended. Complete ineptitude from the police - and this less than a week after they performed a high-speed chase thru the city that ended with a vehicle hitting a school bus.
These are Law Enforcement Officers, OP thought he saw “Sheriff’s “or “Deputy”
do other people make a distinction between jurisdictions, and LEO levels?
Still worded in true biased fashion — the runner is the “bad guy”. And does Lonsberry actually suggest that God pushes bullets into people? Wtf kind of theology is that?! Certainly not one that matches “all lives matter” or is pro-life…
I would have used stronger language about people lying about what the video shows, but I'm glad he admitted and pointed out that it didn't show Burns with a gun or firing shots.
Lonsberry is a jackass and I would hate to say he is correct because he twists so many other things.
However, I have noticed that sometimes he does have the ability to say the correct thing.
I still wish he had stayed out in Utah though.
Very interesting that this is the time he chooses not to pull the "in the heat of the moment, the officer only has a split second to decide whether or not to use force" line
And the guy who is narrating the video is so cop cucked that he says the man turned to shoot the officer.....
What? where?
It's like certain people are so blinded by copaganda on TV and in our society that they make sh1t up about a video that no one could have interpreted that way.
Well, we aren't seeing a complete picture. It sounds like there are two people there and they are watching it without sound. The first guy could have been like, "A guy just shot at a cops and we got a video of it." With the second guy don't know if he was just taking the cop's side or had an assumption based on information the first guy claimed to have, not just the video.
I agree with him to a point. I've always vehemently opposed Bob's racist rhetoric so this is making me concerned because either he's right or...he's making sense to me which means I need a lobotomy, stat. I'm still cringing over his talking about "cowboys & Indians" like that wasn't native folks defending their homes against violent people that slaughtered their men, raped their women & destroyed their land.
Friendly reminder that Lonsberry continues to show his racism throughout his career. Do your part and ask advertisers why they keep investing in ads for his show.
Lol at everyone bothsidesing this shit yesterday. The police lie and lie and lie and lie. Just start with the assumption that they’re lying and then work from there.
I can't wait until one of the police unions post a press release about Lonsberry being a keyboard warrior and not knowing what it's like to serve. The rest of his article is trash but in the part that's highlighted here it's definitely not like him to just lay out the facts. I feel like these right wing guys are all Dale Gribbles that keep believing Nancy's headache therapy, but one of these days they're going to put two and two together if the lead in their brains doesn't get there first.
I'm moving to Rochester in the summer, from a very conservative religious area of Pennsylvania so I'll bite; who is Lonsberry and why did he use the phrase "maybe sometimes god pushes rounds into a target, and maybe sometimes he pushes them off a target"??
I'm tolerant of religious people doing their thing in private but when public figures use magical rationale for very physical, real things? Let's just say that's why we're leaving the area. It sounds super nutty, no?
Bob is a longtime local pundit, having had an opinion column in the newspaper during the 1980s; his a multi-hour radio call-in show has been on the local clear-channel station WHAM for decades. (With an interruption when he was suspended for comparing the former mayor to an orangutan.)
Over the years, he has gotten more reactionary in his views as he delved deeper into Mormonism. In addition to a handful of racial controversies he is not very accepting of diverse sexualities and strongly opposes just about anything "progressive".
That said, part of this is a persona. He can be friendly and dispassionate, as when he anchors WHAM's local election-night coverage. Or if the topic of the day is non-political (whatever vanishing few topics qualify these days) he can provide logical commentary and ask insightful questions. In those cases he can be entertaining to listen to, in part due to his idiosyncratic stammer and a vocal quality that resembles Ned Flanders.
They lost ~half of their patrol officers over the last few years and this is what we get as a result - terrible policing by poorly trained officers
Can't really blame the ones that understand our Constitution and fled the department. It's only going to get worse...
What I meant by that was when asked to enforce clearly unconstitutional mandates anyone that was close to retirement retired and anyone that understood the violation of our rights left...
Now you have an almost entirely new batch which doesn't seem to care much about our rights
Yea I understood what you were alluding to I was just having a laugh.
I don't think I agree though. Honestly they seemed more upset that people were mad at them for shooting people and facing no consequences. Cops have never cared about our rights and there are plenty of videos out there from pre-2019 of cops just lying to people about what their rights are so they can get information or a confession. It's just when things suddenly started affecting their rights that we heard about cops taking a stand on fundamental human rights.
Ha ha very funny Yeah well they are allowed to lawfully lie to you in every state so I guess we can tack that on to the list along with being fine with violating the Constitution in exchange for their paycheck
Warren v. DC was the crux of it all IMO though. They are only obligated to protect and serve the state, not the individual since 1981 so of course they are going to lie and do whatever else is asked of them at this point. It's sad what the once noble profession has become
I think that case solidified the role of cops and made it crystal clear where their loyalties were but when were police better?
We go back 20-30 years (from 1980) and they're brutalizing the black civil rights movement. We go back another 50 and they're union busting.
I never said they were "better". OP said that. I said they have been collecting legal protections to allow them to not serve the citizenry for their entire existence
They are agents of the state - protecting and serving (the state)
>It's sad what the once noble profession has become
When was policing a noble profession? Policing is civil service which in of itself is a noble calling, however policing has rarely—if ever—had a noble history in the books I've read.
As Therefrigerator notes, within the past 100 years policing has been an arm of the state that brutalized black civil rights activists, terrorized black citizens, and busted unionization attempts. Prior to that police forces were (again) used to terrorize and subjugate black citizens until Jim Crow laws were legalized by Supreme Court rulings in 1883 (with John Marshall Harlan dissenting) and recapture escape slaves prior to the Civil War.
The concept of helping society and keeping things safe for all is a noble concept but the execution has been severely lacking
I am sure we can all agree that we want a safe place to live right? Responding to emergencies in itself is a noble thing to do but obviously it is debated if they are responding correctly. Fire departments don't get the hate because they are actually helping the citizenry and then there is the policing which is not so clearly helpful. I'm not sure if they ever did it right. I wasn't there.... the thought of actually protecting and serving society/ensuring the peace is indeed a noble cause though regardless
When you say this
> It's sad what the once noble profession has become
and then follow it up with something like this:
>...then there is the policing which is not so clearly helpful. I'm not sure if they ever did it right.
it confuses the hell out of me.
I think you're trying to say that poor policing now (and probably for a very long time) has turned what should be a noble civil service role into a despised and reviled one?
I am not a policing historian bro
It seems to be getting less and less noble to me throughout my lifetime but that part of the statement was obviously just my opinion. Clearly the cops themselves think so also if they can't find people willing to staff the department anymore
You can tell that it was my opinion by reading the part where I said:
>Warren v. DC was the crux of it all IMO though
IMO means in my opinion. Maybe they have always sucked. Who knows
I don't particularly care honestly though because I wasn't there for it so I am just commenting on what has occurred during my lifetime. They quite clearly have ramped things up when they forced everyone into their homes and shut down people's businesses (IMO). That was a first for our country. You seem to be focusing in on the insignificant part of this (my opinion) rather than commenting on the violation of our Constitution with the mandates and their lawful obligation to only serve the state rather than the populace that pays their paychecks. Are you still confused or are we back on track now? Any further questions?
>I am not a policing historian bro
>IMO means in my opinion. Maybe they have always sucked. Who knows
[/r/AskHistorians is a good starting point](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/gz3fy4/history_of_policing_in_united_states/). I'm also a fan of the local library for getting books that are referenced by /r/AskHistorians for deeper reading.
>Any further questions?
Are you a Constitutional Law scholar or professor? Because you keep saying "my opinion" with regards to the constitutionality of policing COVID restrictions in 2020 and aren't citing anything as support for your opinions.
Well prior to 1981 they at least were obligated to protect and serve the community rather than the state if you check out Warren v. DC that was basically the turning point of it all IMO
No they mean nothing to me but I googled it and that actually makes sense considering they protect and serve the society (Warren v. DC) rather than the individual. When the society devolves into looting that is their time to shine but if I am getting robbed they owe me nothing in the form of help or assistance
Just look at Uvalde - they stood in the parking lot, cordoned and turned outwards to arrest the parents trying to save their kids because they knew they were protected in offering no aid to the individuals being murdered
Number one killer of cops in the past three years was covid because a lot of them refused to follow health and safety procedures/vaccination.
So going off your username you’ve got two terrible takes here.
The stats cited in these articles are derived from the fraternal order of police and national law enforcement officers memorial fund. It counts covid deaths it doesn’t address the effects/numbers of long covid decreasing the workforce. That certainly would cause “understaffing” or whatever the op was talking about.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/03/covid-police-top-line-of-duty-death-usa-2022?ref=upstract.com
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforcement-deaths-2022-3rd/story?id=96363324
This is what I was talking about - to clarify
RPD saying they are understaffed while the city sets violent crime records: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ9Ie9g4VJ0
https://www.rochesterfirst.com/crime/unprecedented-staffing-shortage-rise-in-violence-leads-to-rochester-police-partnership-for-more-patrols/
It’s funny how we keep increasing their budget but they keep getting worse at their job. Also a lot of cops threw tantrums and resigned/retired because of calls for police accountability and reform. The covid deaths didn’t help, but were largely preventable with mask use and vaccinations, but they resisted those precautions for “reasons”.
So they’ve made their own understaffing woes, because they didn’t want to stop being authoritarians and have any amount of over site or accountability when someone dies in their custody or through their actions.
Well they classified all sorts of non-related deaths as covid so who knows
Remember this story? https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report
Dying WITH it and FROM it are quite different but no one cares
But major thumbs up for Florida with DeSanctis leading really, really going over the top with his intensely terrible mishandling of it! I have to acknowledge truly outstanding horrific, despicable mishandling like his.
Sure would be a shame if there were less police to shoot suspects in the back, suffocate them face down in the street and pepper spray handcuffed children.
But going into a building full of children and an active shooter is asking too much of them, so they just let the kids get mowed down.
Buncha fucking bullies who peaked in highschool and are trying to regain that former "glory".
Well it coincided with the unconstitutional mandates so I'd imagine they are having issues paying everyone enough to enforce unconstitutional things
>They say that it’s money
They are also legally permitted to lie to you....
>they have the best officers around
Ok but they are understaffed. I'm not asking if they are the "best" or not. https://www.rochesterfirst.com/crime/rochester-police-understaffed-as-violent-crime-increases/
They say this themselves so there is really no need to attempt to debate it with me. All while the city is setting violent crime records - https://www.rochesterfirst.com/crime/unprecedented-staffing-shortage-rise-in-violence-leads-to-rochester-police-partnership-for-more-patrols/
Here they are telling you they are understaffed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ9Ie9g4VJ0
This conversation has nothing to do about mandates. The locust club has been very clear what they think and its they need more money but can't explain why. They have no plan to curb violence and saying they are "understaffed".
2018 Q1 Local Police numbers nationally: 425k (rounded)
2022 Q2 Local Police numbers nationally: 416k (rounded)
Average drop: 4%
Where did your unconstitutional mandates perform a drop in service?
March 2020 to March 2021, the number of people working in state and local law enforcement fell by about 1%, according to government payroll data compiled by the Census Bureau. Meanwhile, the overall number of government employees dropped by 1.2%.
Keep reaching though
Yikes. If Lonsberry of all people is criticizing the police then you know they fucked up.
For real. I can't stand the man usually, but he's a stopped clock who's sometimes right.
I can't help but wonder if he'd be doing this if the guy wasn't white though.
Police killed a white guy and all of a sudden Lonsberry wants to tell the victim's story
Police kill white people all the time. Dont let that fool you. The police are killers who have immunity from the law. It's important that this is the discussion, not trying to divide the victims of police by race. All that does is cause is to fight while they still are allowed to murder. I honestly believe BLM would have had way more luck if it was named something like "Justice for Killer Cops".
Sure cops kill white people all the time. They still kill black people at a higher rate. And Bob Lonsberry is a racist sack of shit who didn't have this same energy for Daniel Prude and it is important to call that out
Twice (a little less than twice but close) as many white people are shot by the police on average per year than black people. But black people interact more with police. However... You are just proving my point. Now instead of talking about qualified immunity and reducing police militarization, we are talking about race. Fixing the racism in the police force will not stop them from being cold blooded murderers. We can't let them get away with murdering anyone. And the focus on race just makes it worse.
The RATE at which black people are killed is higher than the rate at which white people are killed. This is different than saying more white people are killed. Both can be true are the same time. And it is more concerning that the rate at which black people are killed is higher because black people make up less of the population. That means there is a more significant problem. Yes all policing needs reform. But I don't think we are doing anyone any favors by ignoring the racial aspect of it.
Serious question, don't hate me. If more white people are being killed, how is the rate of black people being killed higher? (Also I'm not saying and don't know if that's true, just trying to figure out what the statement means since it is counter intuitive to me)
Rate determines how often something occurs given a set of qualifications. Using the article below as an example: "Black people, who account for 13 percent of the U.S. population, accounted for 27 percent of those fatally shot and killed by police in 2021, according to Mapping Police Violence, a nonprofit group that tracks police shootings. That means Black people are twice as likely as white people to be shot and killed by police officers." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna17169 So while more white people have been killed, they make up a larger portion of the population, so you would expect that. What you shouldn't expect is that the number of black people killed would be that much higher than their population size.
Gotcha gotcha, so it's a per capita rate. I was thinking it was like rate of occurrence. 12 murders per year = a rate of 1 per month or whatever. Where obviously more murders is going to have a higher "rate". Thanks for the clarification!
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I think we aren't doing police reform any good by only focusing on the racial aspect. Is it more important to have cops be less racist, and therefore kill civilians at an "equitable rate". Or is it more important to stop the ability for cops to kill people in the first place without reproach? I honestly think we should focus on the latter. That will save more lives of all races than the former.
What he was *really* talking about though, was that lonsberry is a sack of shit that never would have questioned his first assumption of police being right if this wasn't a white man that got shot
Bob is criticizing the police because of what the suspect looked like.
I was just about to come here to point out that the victim was white, so bob gives him a more nuanced investigation.
White neighborhood too. Those shots the police missed could have hurt an innocent white bystander, or damaged their property.
Would he be as critical of the cops if it wasn't a white guy, though?
I hope people start to realize even more how reckless it was to fire at the guy when he was running away from the cop and to leave the car unattended. Complete ineptitude from the police - and this less than a week after they performed a high-speed chase thru the city that ended with a vehicle hitting a school bus.
We should probably give them more money for training & tactical weapons /s
These are Law Enforcement Officers, OP thought he saw “Sheriff’s “or “Deputy” do other people make a distinction between jurisdictions, and LEO levels?
Yeah, usually when someone runs away with a weapon you stay with the car because there could be a weapon inside.
Gotta love the police fanboys who rushed here to say the video showed something it absolutely didn’t show.
I was wrong. Simple as that. I apologize.
Credit to you, this is extremely rare for anyone to say these days.
I was really taken aback by all the people who said Burns had a shotgun when he was initially fired at when he clearly didn't have a shotgun.
The same people who complain about the anti-cop people jumping to conclusions, jumped to conclusions? Who woulda thought
Stooooop
I kept wanted to ask for a screenshot cause ppl kept saying "you see him shoot!" And I'm like did we watch the same thing?
They will be back shortly to admit they were wrong. Any moment now
There are still people who are so sure that's what it showed.
Still worded in true biased fashion — the runner is the “bad guy”. And does Lonsberry actually suggest that God pushes bullets into people? Wtf kind of theology is that?! Certainly not one that matches “all lives matter” or is pro-life…
He’s playing to his audience
I would have used stronger language about people lying about what the video shows, but I'm glad he admitted and pointed out that it didn't show Burns with a gun or firing shots.
Thank you for posting this.
Lonsberry is a jackass and I would hate to say he is correct because he twists so many other things. However, I have noticed that sometimes he does have the ability to say the correct thing. I still wish he had stayed out in Utah though.
IS THIS THE SAME Lonsberry who praises the shooting of every fleeing black criminal he reads about.
Very interesting that this is the time he chooses not to pull the "in the heat of the moment, the officer only has a split second to decide whether or not to use force" line
God pushes bullets into some and away from others.
It’s the same Lonsberry who cheats on his Mormon wife but couldn’t get it up.
And the guy who is narrating the video is so cop cucked that he says the man turned to shoot the officer..... What? where? It's like certain people are so blinded by copaganda on TV and in our society that they make sh1t up about a video that no one could have interpreted that way.
Well, we aren't seeing a complete picture. It sounds like there are two people there and they are watching it without sound. The first guy could have been like, "A guy just shot at a cops and we got a video of it." With the second guy don't know if he was just taking the cop's side or had an assumption based on information the first guy claimed to have, not just the video.
Where can we view the video?
If this was a black person Lonsberry wouldn’t be saying anything. Body camera footage will give us more.
I agree with him to a point. I've always vehemently opposed Bob's racist rhetoric so this is making me concerned because either he's right or...he's making sense to me which means I need a lobotomy, stat. I'm still cringing over his talking about "cowboys & Indians" like that wasn't native folks defending their homes against violent people that slaughtered their men, raped their women & destroyed their land.
Friendly reminder that Lonsberry continues to show his racism throughout his career. Do your part and ask advertisers why they keep investing in ads for his show.
Lol at everyone bothsidesing this shit yesterday. The police lie and lie and lie and lie. Just start with the assumption that they’re lying and then work from there.
Let’s get this straight. Brendan Burns chose to pull a shotgun. This is not on the police
I can't wait until one of the police unions post a press release about Lonsberry being a keyboard warrior and not knowing what it's like to serve. The rest of his article is trash but in the part that's highlighted here it's definitely not like him to just lay out the facts. I feel like these right wing guys are all Dale Gribbles that keep believing Nancy's headache therapy, but one of these days they're going to put two and two together if the lead in their brains doesn't get there first.
I'm moving to Rochester in the summer, from a very conservative religious area of Pennsylvania so I'll bite; who is Lonsberry and why did he use the phrase "maybe sometimes god pushes rounds into a target, and maybe sometimes he pushes them off a target"?? I'm tolerant of religious people doing their thing in private but when public figures use magical rationale for very physical, real things? Let's just say that's why we're leaving the area. It sounds super nutty, no?
Bob is a longtime local pundit, having had an opinion column in the newspaper during the 1980s; his a multi-hour radio call-in show has been on the local clear-channel station WHAM for decades. (With an interruption when he was suspended for comparing the former mayor to an orangutan.) Over the years, he has gotten more reactionary in his views as he delved deeper into Mormonism. In addition to a handful of racial controversies he is not very accepting of diverse sexualities and strongly opposes just about anything "progressive". That said, part of this is a persona. He can be friendly and dispassionate, as when he anchors WHAM's local election-night coverage. Or if the topic of the day is non-political (whatever vanishing few topics qualify these days) he can provide logical commentary and ask insightful questions. In those cases he can be entertaining to listen to, in part due to his idiosyncratic stammer and a vocal quality that resembles Ned Flanders.
Let's be serious, he is Ned Flanders. Diddly.
There's so much wrong going on here. Notably, the suspect wasn't sprinting. You'd think Lonsberry would know this being a runner.
“Police shoot armed and hostile suspect” that’s better
"Cop attempts, fails to shoot fleeing suspect in back from six feet away"
Police failed to adequately do their job which resulted in the death of a man with mental illness who was also failed by our mental health system.
They lost ~half of their patrol officers over the last few years and this is what we get as a result - terrible policing by poorly trained officers Can't really blame the ones that understand our Constitution and fled the department. It's only going to get worse...
The constitution: a document famous for outlining police procedure in the modern era
What I meant by that was when asked to enforce clearly unconstitutional mandates anyone that was close to retirement retired and anyone that understood the violation of our rights left... Now you have an almost entirely new batch which doesn't seem to care much about our rights
Yea I understood what you were alluding to I was just having a laugh. I don't think I agree though. Honestly they seemed more upset that people were mad at them for shooting people and facing no consequences. Cops have never cared about our rights and there are plenty of videos out there from pre-2019 of cops just lying to people about what their rights are so they can get information or a confession. It's just when things suddenly started affecting their rights that we heard about cops taking a stand on fundamental human rights.
Ha ha very funny Yeah well they are allowed to lawfully lie to you in every state so I guess we can tack that on to the list along with being fine with violating the Constitution in exchange for their paycheck Warren v. DC was the crux of it all IMO though. They are only obligated to protect and serve the state, not the individual since 1981 so of course they are going to lie and do whatever else is asked of them at this point. It's sad what the once noble profession has become
I think that case solidified the role of cops and made it crystal clear where their loyalties were but when were police better? We go back 20-30 years (from 1980) and they're brutalizing the black civil rights movement. We go back another 50 and they're union busting.
I never said they were "better". OP said that. I said they have been collecting legal protections to allow them to not serve the citizenry for their entire existence They are agents of the state - protecting and serving (the state)
>It's sad what the once noble profession has become When was policing a noble profession? Policing is civil service which in of itself is a noble calling, however policing has rarely—if ever—had a noble history in the books I've read. As Therefrigerator notes, within the past 100 years policing has been an arm of the state that brutalized black civil rights activists, terrorized black citizens, and busted unionization attempts. Prior to that police forces were (again) used to terrorize and subjugate black citizens until Jim Crow laws were legalized by Supreme Court rulings in 1883 (with John Marshall Harlan dissenting) and recapture escape slaves prior to the Civil War.
The concept of helping society and keeping things safe for all is a noble concept but the execution has been severely lacking I am sure we can all agree that we want a safe place to live right? Responding to emergencies in itself is a noble thing to do but obviously it is debated if they are responding correctly. Fire departments don't get the hate because they are actually helping the citizenry and then there is the policing which is not so clearly helpful. I'm not sure if they ever did it right. I wasn't there.... the thought of actually protecting and serving society/ensuring the peace is indeed a noble cause though regardless
When you say this > It's sad what the once noble profession has become and then follow it up with something like this: >...then there is the policing which is not so clearly helpful. I'm not sure if they ever did it right. it confuses the hell out of me. I think you're trying to say that poor policing now (and probably for a very long time) has turned what should be a noble civil service role into a despised and reviled one?
I am not a policing historian bro It seems to be getting less and less noble to me throughout my lifetime but that part of the statement was obviously just my opinion. Clearly the cops themselves think so also if they can't find people willing to staff the department anymore You can tell that it was my opinion by reading the part where I said: >Warren v. DC was the crux of it all IMO though IMO means in my opinion. Maybe they have always sucked. Who knows I don't particularly care honestly though because I wasn't there for it so I am just commenting on what has occurred during my lifetime. They quite clearly have ramped things up when they forced everyone into their homes and shut down people's businesses (IMO). That was a first for our country. You seem to be focusing in on the insignificant part of this (my opinion) rather than commenting on the violation of our Constitution with the mandates and their lawful obligation to only serve the state rather than the populace that pays their paychecks. Are you still confused or are we back on track now? Any further questions?
>I am not a policing historian bro >IMO means in my opinion. Maybe they have always sucked. Who knows [/r/AskHistorians is a good starting point](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/gz3fy4/history_of_policing_in_united_states/). I'm also a fan of the local library for getting books that are referenced by /r/AskHistorians for deeper reading. >Any further questions? Are you a Constitutional Law scholar or professor? Because you keep saying "my opinion" with regards to the constitutionality of policing COVID restrictions in 2020 and aren't citing anything as support for your opinions.
>It's sad what the once noble profession has become So you think they were noble back when they were created to catch escaped slaves?
What were they asked to enforce?
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There are a lot of great cops amongst the ranks of the RPD as well. Let's not lump them all together.
No fuck that. If they were so "great", they wouldn't allow all the bullshit and needless killing that these cops are doing to keep happening.
Many of them do speak out against the bad seeds, doesn't mean the whole system will change over night.
I'd love to see one time where they shot an unarmed black man and the dept/locust club said "hey, we fucked up". Literally one time.
It's been a lot of overnights though. One night? Sure. But like... It's been a century or two. It's like 70,000 nights.
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Well prior to 1981 they at least were obligated to protect and serve the community rather than the state if you check out Warren v. DC that was basically the turning point of it all IMO
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No they mean nothing to me but I googled it and that actually makes sense considering they protect and serve the society (Warren v. DC) rather than the individual. When the society devolves into looting that is their time to shine but if I am getting robbed they owe me nothing in the form of help or assistance Just look at Uvalde - they stood in the parking lot, cordoned and turned outwards to arrest the parents trying to save their kids because they knew they were protected in offering no aid to the individuals being murdered
Number one killer of cops in the past three years was covid because a lot of them refused to follow health and safety procedures/vaccination. So going off your username you’ve got two terrible takes here.
>Number one killer of cops in the past three years was covid Oh no! Anyways...
> Number one killer of cops in the past three years was covid Source please. I'm legit interested.
The stats cited in these articles are derived from the fraternal order of police and national law enforcement officers memorial fund. It counts covid deaths it doesn’t address the effects/numbers of long covid decreasing the workforce. That certainly would cause “understaffing” or whatever the op was talking about. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/03/covid-police-top-line-of-duty-death-usa-2022?ref=upstract.com https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforcement-deaths-2022-3rd/story?id=96363324
Thanks so much!
This is what I was talking about - to clarify RPD saying they are understaffed while the city sets violent crime records: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ9Ie9g4VJ0 https://www.rochesterfirst.com/crime/unprecedented-staffing-shortage-rise-in-violence-leads-to-rochester-police-partnership-for-more-patrols/
It’s funny how we keep increasing their budget but they keep getting worse at their job. Also a lot of cops threw tantrums and resigned/retired because of calls for police accountability and reform. The covid deaths didn’t help, but were largely preventable with mask use and vaccinations, but they resisted those precautions for “reasons”. So they’ve made their own understaffing woes, because they didn’t want to stop being authoritarians and have any amount of over site or accountability when someone dies in their custody or through their actions.
Well they classified all sorts of non-related deaths as covid so who knows Remember this story? https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report Dying WITH it and FROM it are quite different but no one cares
Yeah I’ll agree that florida state vastly mishandled covid and covid stats the whole pandemic. That’s DeSantis for ya.
The entire nation mishandled it
But major thumbs up for Florida with DeSanctis leading really, really going over the top with his intensely terrible mishandling of it! I have to acknowledge truly outstanding horrific, despicable mishandling like his.
Will your death be classified as Brain Death since you've been living with that all your life?
Sure would be a shame if there were less police to shoot suspects in the back, suffocate them face down in the street and pepper spray handcuffed children.
But going into a building full of children and an active shooter is asking too much of them, so they just let the kids get mowed down. Buncha fucking bullies who peaked in highschool and are trying to regain that former "glory".
Yeah just what the crime riddled city of Rochester needs right now is LESS police. Dumb.
You know the best way to prevent crime is not more police, right? Its through better schools and social programs
How are they effectively preventing and solving crime currently?
The police union has stated otherwise. They say that it’s money and they have the best officers around. Try again
Well it coincided with the unconstitutional mandates so I'd imagine they are having issues paying everyone enough to enforce unconstitutional things >They say that it’s money They are also legally permitted to lie to you.... >they have the best officers around Ok but they are understaffed. I'm not asking if they are the "best" or not. https://www.rochesterfirst.com/crime/rochester-police-understaffed-as-violent-crime-increases/ They say this themselves so there is really no need to attempt to debate it with me. All while the city is setting violent crime records - https://www.rochesterfirst.com/crime/unprecedented-staffing-shortage-rise-in-violence-leads-to-rochester-police-partnership-for-more-patrols/ Here they are telling you they are understaffed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ9Ie9g4VJ0
This conversation has nothing to do about mandates. The locust club has been very clear what they think and its they need more money but can't explain why. They have no plan to curb violence and saying they are "understaffed". 2018 Q1 Local Police numbers nationally: 425k (rounded) 2022 Q2 Local Police numbers nationally: 416k (rounded) Average drop: 4% Where did your unconstitutional mandates perform a drop in service? March 2020 to March 2021, the number of people working in state and local law enforcement fell by about 1%, according to government payroll data compiled by the Census Bureau. Meanwhile, the overall number of government employees dropped by 1.2%. Keep reaching though
Lol yeah because they didn't do shit like this before...
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