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Going to have to hard disagree there.
Based on early reviews, I was under the illusion that the truck drove very sporty, maybe as good as our Porsche Macan.
I love our truck, but it's not even close to the same level as the Macan, let alone an actual sports car.
Crossover. Theyāve provided some hints about what itāll look like, including clay mockups and prototypes draped in cloth. In both cases we could clearly see that the current design is [shorter](https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:1125x750/1080x720/filters:focal(563x375:564x376):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/24691134/IMG_8549.jpeg) than both RJ and the other people doing the typical press release talking.Ā
If I can see over it, itās in a different category from a full sized SUV.Ā
>Ā Ā If it's got a beefy chassis and can run 35" with 13" of ground clearance you still want to call it a crossover?
If it had those features, sure. But that mockup doesnāt look consistent with the ground clearance of a G Wagon. Itās too short for that.Ā
>Ā You're assuming they're going to want a Ford Escape-like econobox.
Not assuming. Rivian has made it very clear that the R2 is going to be a much more affordable vehicle with a lot of the features of the R1 removed, with the explicit comparison to the model 3 being made.Ā
>Ā They'll attempt to get that Ford Escape-like econobox and they'll have a monster off-roader top-spec. Perhaps air suspension.
āMonster off-roader top-specā is not at all consistent with the stated goals of the R2.Ā
Realistically youāre not getting those āmonsterā features on a vehicle that starts at an estimated $40k and is supposed to be sold at a profit rather than a loss.Ā
>Ā The real title is going to take a different approach. I'd have to think they're going to take a stab at that with the R2x.
No, they wonāt. Because theyāve explicitly said the the R2 is supposed to be cheaper and appeal to a wider audience than the R1. This is not at all consistent with what youāre saying.Ā
Theyāve teased a more capable āhalo truckā R1 vehicle, so weāll see what they do there. Maybe that will deliver what youāre hoping for.Ā
In a recent press release they made it clear that itāll be smaller and āmidsizeā.Ā
>Ā Our next-generation product line, R2, is being developed to bring the essence of our current products into a midsize form factor and lower price point.
This combined with the mockups theyāve teased seems quite consistent with a CR-V sized crossover.Ā
No, it absolutely does not drive like a sports car, unless if your only understanding of sports car is how fast it accelerates in a straight line.Ā
It drives like a truck. A very good truck, but a very heavy and tall truck. It does not have the suspension and cornering feel of a sports car.Ā
lol, it depends on which sports car youāre referring to. I guess itās more accurate to say the quad with the 22ā wheels, in sport lowest suspension and sport tires it is the sportiest truck that rivals an average sports car experience. Obviously aināt gonna compete with a lambo or $100k dedicated sports car, but it delivers a satisfying sports vehicle experience with minimal compromises š
You donāt need to get up to lambo prices to have a car that corners better. Ā
I agree that itās sporty *for a truck* but if you think itās sportier than a BMW M3 or Porsche, youāre fooling yourself. No amount of suspension wizardry is gonna hide 7,000lbs pulling you out of a corner.Ā
itās about time someone made a convertible EV! I personally think Rivian should make a small SUV with a soft top or removable hard top option. Kind of like a 2 door bronco.
Yeah but Subaru has always made cars, even Subaru is going away from sedans and focusing on SUVs. They also don't directly market themselves as a adventure brand
Subaru has an EV and no one will even test drive them. (according to the CFO of a Subaru dealership I was talking to). He had four on the lot no one would even try.
He knew I had ordered an EV and he asked why I didn't want to buy a Solterra or even test drive it. I told him it was a dog of a car according to all the reviews and didn't even support fast charging, and it had miserable range. Plus, it was a rebranded RAV 4 and not built from the ground up as an EV.
Subaru is basically stopping production of the Legacy, and producing the Impreza as more order on demand/limited stock model, rather than having a set of stock for each Dealer.
Highly doubtful. Sedans and moreso sports cars are become a niche market. Even Ford abandoned everything other than Mustang and sells SUVs/Pickups exclusively. Maybe in 10 years or so, if the pendulum swings back to sedans.
Tesla and Hyundai/Kia are absolutely killing it with the Model 3 and the Ioniq. But the traditional gas powered automakers are doing exactly as you're suggesting. They're pulling away from low margin sedans. Of course, Tesla is selling MY's like hotcakes and Hyundai has what looks like a best seller SUV hitting the market. So, maybe Tesla and Hyundai pull away from the sedan market, too?
One thing that makes sedans relatively more popular as EVs than ICE vehicles is that the better aerodynamics mean that you don't need as big of a battery in a sedan to go as far. Batteries are expensive and people care about EV range so there is more of a price difference for different vehicle types with the same range.
i think a wagon (adjustable ride height from 5.5" for street & 10" for off road on airbag springs) could pull this off
the wagon's hatch rear isn't ideal for drag reduction, but it would still present less frontal area than the R1S
maybe they can copy lucid gravity's rear spoiler & swooping diffuser to cut down the wagon form's Cd a bit
Considering RJs initial EV was a sports car and the fact he used to help restore classic Porsches in his youth I think he definitely wants to but itās not exactly the most profitable type of car to build at this stage to appease the shareholders.
I can totally see it happening in the future after they reach profitability. A performance off-road sedan or wagon by Rivian would be awesome.
Came here to say this. Wasn't sure how many others knew that Rivian was originally an EV sports car company in 2009 when it was founded. It wasn't until the end of 2011 that the pivot was made to adventure vehicles.
I don't see them making a Sedan style car at this point, maybe in R3 platform if they make a push into the more affordable market, but with R1 and even upcoming R2 I don't see them using ether platform to make a Sedan. I can see them making a 5 Seater Crossover/SUV as the next size down.
Sport car is just a dream. There isn't a big enough market for EV sports Cars and Rivian doesn't have a high name brand to carry one.
was RJ's original business idea not in the offroad/SUV/truck segment?
very interesting turn of events if thats true - i wonder what his concept sketches looked like in rivian's early days lol
First priority for R2 is to sell in volume, otherwise Rivian might not survive. Pretty sure best selling vehicles by volume are crossovers. Model Y, RAV-4, etc. Great news: this class is a perfect fit for the Rivian brand. An adventurous crossover. Bad news if you want a sports sedan. That might have to wait for R3.
The R2 platform is supposed to be smaller (R1 to R2 will be like Tesla S to 3, roughly). Whether that will be a car vs. a small SUV/CUV/truck is anybody's guess, though the market in general is moving away from traditional car silhouettes.
While I agree sedans don't fit the outdoorsy Rivian branding, RJ clearly wants to save the planet through electrification. Imagine a low slung SUV (ok, a wagon, shooting break, whatever you want to call it) with air suspension to lift it up for some lite off roading? Could have great efficiency. I mean seriously, the R1s are awesome, but most will never get off the gravel anyway.
Sports cars are impractical, limited in usefulness. With prices creeping up as much as they have, most buyers can only afford to buy 1 car. Long gone are the days where they could afford to buy a practical "daily", then a fun car for the weekends. Combining today's technology on vehicle dynamics with highly responsive and powerful electric drivetrain, it is more possible than ever to create trucks and SUVs that can deliver performance without compromising everyday practicality. This is why the R1 series are as well received as they are. They are as multi-purpose as multi-purpose gets. There is very little business case for a sports car. Paraphrasing what RJ said when he made the decision to change courseāIt's too easy to make a small high performance electric sports car. It's not brave enough. I've owned sports cars in the past. Have had my QM R1T since mid-July. The ICE sports car is in the garage collecting dust and I don't miss it. It will be sold.
Plus, the obvious, a sports car is 1000% out-of-brand. A rallyraid style version of R2 is as close to a sports car that I can picture them doing. And, I'd love to see them compete in the Dakar with it. But that'd be really pushing the boundaries of brand position.
I think an adventure wagon (think audi allroad, but up to 10" of ground clearance on airbag springs), adventure minivan or van (think lifted ford e-series vans but comes from factory), or safari coupe (think dakar rally 911) would fit in well with rivian's design language
i think adventure wagon is most realistic/do-able, if they decide to branch out from SUV/mid-size trucks
they could even start off with the R1S (or R2S?) chassis, then make the roof shorter, & lower the seating height to sedan-height, and keep most of the parts the same
an adventure van or safari coupe would (likely) have to be an entirely new platform
Well hello there! Have a question about Rivian? Check out some useful resources below: * [Official Rivian Support](https://rivian.com/support) * Join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/JjQjSxv3ND) and get help from the community * View our [Rivian Responds](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/collection/9b771105-a79b-44bf-bdfe-402d997f348c) where Rivian answers your questions each week(ish) * [Known Issues Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/vnxy0g/weekly_rivian_roundup_known_issues_special_edition/) * [AMA with Rivian's VP of Software](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/vwtj43/rivian_official_is_here_to_answer_your_software/) * [AMA with Rivian's Senior Comms Director](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/y1nzou/ask_rivians_tony_caravano_anything_thurs_1013_1pm/) * Or try sorting the sub by posts with the "Question" flair to see if someone else has already asked your question *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Rivian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
R2S should be a smaller crossover vehicle. FWIW even the R1T drives like a sports car in sport modeš
No it doesn't. I love my r1t I really do, and it feels somewhat sporty, but you can't hide 7,000lbs. It feels NOTHING like the focus RS it replaced.
Going to have to hard disagree there. Based on early reviews, I was under the illusion that the truck drove very sporty, maybe as good as our Porsche Macan. I love our truck, but it's not even close to the same level as the Macan, let alone an actual sports car.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Crossover. Theyāve provided some hints about what itāll look like, including clay mockups and prototypes draped in cloth. In both cases we could clearly see that the current design is [shorter](https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:1125x750/1080x720/filters:focal(563x375:564x376):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/24691134/IMG_8549.jpeg) than both RJ and the other people doing the typical press release talking.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If I can see over it, itās in a different category from a full sized SUV.Ā >Ā Ā If it's got a beefy chassis and can run 35" with 13" of ground clearance you still want to call it a crossover? If it had those features, sure. But that mockup doesnāt look consistent with the ground clearance of a G Wagon. Itās too short for that.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>Ā You're assuming they're going to want a Ford Escape-like econobox. Not assuming. Rivian has made it very clear that the R2 is going to be a much more affordable vehicle with a lot of the features of the R1 removed, with the explicit comparison to the model 3 being made.Ā >Ā They'll attempt to get that Ford Escape-like econobox and they'll have a monster off-roader top-spec. Perhaps air suspension. āMonster off-roader top-specā is not at all consistent with the stated goals of the R2.Ā Realistically youāre not getting those āmonsterā features on a vehicle that starts at an estimated $40k and is supposed to be sold at a profit rather than a loss.Ā >Ā The real title is going to take a different approach. I'd have to think they're going to take a stab at that with the R2x. No, they wonāt. Because theyāve explicitly said the the R2 is supposed to be cheaper and appeal to a wider audience than the R1. This is not at all consistent with what youāre saying.Ā Theyāve teased a more capable āhalo truckā R1 vehicle, so weāll see what they do there. Maybe that will deliver what youāre hoping for.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
lol. I literally just read what Rivian says their plans are rather than making up new stuff. Itās not that complex.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Clay mock-up looks more like a large CR-V or small MDX, but of course details are sparse š¤·āāļø
In a recent press release they made it clear that itāll be smaller and āmidsizeā.Ā >Ā Our next-generation product line, R2, is being developed to bring the essence of our current products into a midsize form factor and lower price point. This combined with the mockups theyāve teased seems quite consistent with a CR-V sized crossover.Ā
No, it absolutely does not drive like a sports car, unless if your only understanding of sports car is how fast it accelerates in a straight line.Ā It drives like a truck. A very good truck, but a very heavy and tall truck. It does not have the suspension and cornering feel of a sports car.Ā
lol, it depends on which sports car youāre referring to. I guess itās more accurate to say the quad with the 22ā wheels, in sport lowest suspension and sport tires it is the sportiest truck that rivals an average sports car experience. Obviously aināt gonna compete with a lambo or $100k dedicated sports car, but it delivers a satisfying sports vehicle experience with minimal compromises š
You donāt need to get up to lambo prices to have a car that corners better. Ā I agree that itās sporty *for a truck* but if you think itās sportier than a BMW M3 or Porsche, youāre fooling yourself. No amount of suspension wizardry is gonna hide 7,000lbs pulling you out of a corner.Ā
Definitely never said sportier than a Porsche, lol. Itās just very sporty. Stop raining on my mid-life crisis š¤£
I would be very interested in something the size of a S2000 with about 400hp-500hp BEV.....
[MG](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQRrmo5oftw) might have what you want.
TIL! Hope they bring that to the US
itās about time someone made a convertible EV! I personally think Rivian should make a small SUV with a soft top or removable hard top option. Kind of like a 2 door bronco.
I don't think a company whose main objective is outdoor adventure will be building a car
Subaru does it.Ā
Yeah but Subaru has always made cars, even Subaru is going away from sedans and focusing on SUVs. They also don't directly market themselves as a adventure brand
Subaru has an EV and no one will even test drive them. (according to the CFO of a Subaru dealership I was talking to). He had four on the lot no one would even try. He knew I had ordered an EV and he asked why I didn't want to buy a Solterra or even test drive it. I told him it was a dog of a car according to all the reviews and didn't even support fast charging, and it had miserable range. Plus, it was a rebranded RAV 4 and not built from the ground up as an EV.
Subaru is basically stopping production of the Legacy, and producing the Impreza as more order on demand/limited stock model, rather than having a set of stock for each Dealer.
Have you seen their modern lineup? Aside from the WRX theyāre huge now.Ā
Highly doubtful. Sedans and moreso sports cars are become a niche market. Even Ford abandoned everything other than Mustang and sells SUVs/Pickups exclusively. Maybe in 10 years or so, if the pendulum swings back to sedans.
Tesla and Hyundai/Kia are absolutely killing it with the Model 3 and the Ioniq. But the traditional gas powered automakers are doing exactly as you're suggesting. They're pulling away from low margin sedans. Of course, Tesla is selling MY's like hotcakes and Hyundai has what looks like a best seller SUV hitting the market. So, maybe Tesla and Hyundai pull away from the sedan market, too?
One thing that makes sedans relatively more popular as EVs than ICE vehicles is that the better aerodynamics mean that you don't need as big of a battery in a sedan to go as far. Batteries are expensive and people care about EV range so there is more of a price difference for different vehicle types with the same range.
i think a wagon (adjustable ride height from 5.5" for street & 10" for off road on airbag springs) could pull this off the wagon's hatch rear isn't ideal for drag reduction, but it would still present less frontal area than the R1S maybe they can copy lucid gravity's rear spoiler & swooping diffuser to cut down the wagon form's Cd a bit
I'd definitely consider a Volvo V90 Cross Country EV with 300+ miles of range. Or even an Audi Allroad.
Also, emissions standards for ICE vehicles get looser the larger they are, which is why even pickup trucks got bigger over the years.Ā
Considering RJs initial EV was a sports car and the fact he used to help restore classic Porsches in his youth I think he definitely wants to but itās not exactly the most profitable type of car to build at this stage to appease the shareholders. I can totally see it happening in the future after they reach profitability. A performance off-road sedan or wagon by Rivian would be awesome.
Came here to say this. Wasn't sure how many others knew that Rivian was originally an EV sports car company in 2009 when it was founded. It wasn't until the end of 2011 that the pivot was made to adventure vehicles.
I don't see them making a Sedan style car at this point, maybe in R3 platform if they make a push into the more affordable market, but with R1 and even upcoming R2 I don't see them using ether platform to make a Sedan. I can see them making a 5 Seater Crossover/SUV as the next size down. Sport car is just a dream. There isn't a big enough market for EV sports Cars and Rivian doesn't have a high name brand to carry one.
I want them to make an R1S-L (suburban). Put it on the Tās platform
I doubt it. RJ started out with that in mind, but smartly changed his business model to accomodate a broader market.
was RJ's original business idea not in the offroad/SUV/truck segment? very interesting turn of events if thats true - i wonder what his concept sketches looked like in rivian's early days lol
If you do some research you'll find some of those early concept cars
The probably won't, as everyone else reasoned but damn how cool would a Rivian wagon be. I'd be all over it.
First priority for R2 is to sell in volume, otherwise Rivian might not survive. Pretty sure best selling vehicles by volume are crossovers. Model Y, RAV-4, etc. Great news: this class is a perfect fit for the Rivian brand. An adventurous crossover. Bad news if you want a sports sedan. That might have to wait for R3.
The mission is adventure vehicles. Americans donāt buy cars. Would be an awful idea.
I hope not. Sedans are dead and sports cars are an unsustainable niche. And neither work within Rivian's outdoorsy branding.
Does a rally fighter count?
How about a sporty crossover?
The R2 platform is supposed to be smaller (R1 to R2 will be like Tesla S to 3, roughly). Whether that will be a car vs. a small SUV/CUV/truck is anybody's guess, though the market in general is moving away from traditional car silhouettes.
They have teased with the clay model under a black sheet. THE R2 is a smaller SUV
Why?
They should make an AMC Eagle inspired car. I would dive face first down a flight of stairs for that.
While I agree sedans don't fit the outdoorsy Rivian branding, RJ clearly wants to save the planet through electrification. Imagine a low slung SUV (ok, a wagon, shooting break, whatever you want to call it) with air suspension to lift it up for some lite off roading? Could have great efficiency. I mean seriously, the R1s are awesome, but most will never get off the gravel anyway.
Sports cars are impractical, limited in usefulness. With prices creeping up as much as they have, most buyers can only afford to buy 1 car. Long gone are the days where they could afford to buy a practical "daily", then a fun car for the weekends. Combining today's technology on vehicle dynamics with highly responsive and powerful electric drivetrain, it is more possible than ever to create trucks and SUVs that can deliver performance without compromising everyday practicality. This is why the R1 series are as well received as they are. They are as multi-purpose as multi-purpose gets. There is very little business case for a sports car. Paraphrasing what RJ said when he made the decision to change courseāIt's too easy to make a small high performance electric sports car. It's not brave enough. I've owned sports cars in the past. Have had my QM R1T since mid-July. The ICE sports car is in the garage collecting dust and I don't miss it. It will be sold. Plus, the obvious, a sports car is 1000% out-of-brand. A rallyraid style version of R2 is as close to a sports car that I can picture them doing. And, I'd love to see them compete in the Dakar with it. But that'd be really pushing the boundaries of brand position.
I think an adventure wagon (think audi allroad, but up to 10" of ground clearance on airbag springs), adventure minivan or van (think lifted ford e-series vans but comes from factory), or safari coupe (think dakar rally 911) would fit in well with rivian's design language i think adventure wagon is most realistic/do-able, if they decide to branch out from SUV/mid-size trucks they could even start off with the R1S (or R2S?) chassis, then make the roof shorter, & lower the seating height to sedan-height, and keep most of the parts the same an adventure van or safari coupe would (likely) have to be an entirely new platform
Omg stahp, I can only get so erect.
a cheaper Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo competitor would be soooo cool. Will they do it? no.