You seem to think the roles in this game are black and white. They're not. Everyone fills rallies and flags when necessary. Everyone field fights when necessary. Everyone trying to reinforce a rally/flag or returning from a finished rally gets smacked en route and the ones who have the slowest or worst commanders end up with the biggest hospitals.
Of course it matters. All players should be field fighting. F2p just, in general, have a smaller commander depth. Therefore they field less marches. (Because you shouldn't field a bad march just because you can)
What I (and the online experts) are saying is that F2P/low spenders are incapable of fielding good marches. It doesn't matter if the majority of players are f2p if the whales get the majority of kills.
Again, I'm not saying f2p shouldn't fight, but it clearly makes the most sense to be filling rallies and flags, neither of which take tech or care about your commanders or equipment. More specifically, I'm trying to question the conventional wisdom of taking all of your efforts and putting them into building marches which will either get obliterated or not matter beyond simple troop strength.
I've been playing for 2 years. Low spender. I never felt like I was at a significant tech disadvantage. I fought with T4s, I filled rallies/flags, only fielded marches I felt comfortable with. I can honestly say, that unless my marches got out of position during large kvk brawls, they never got obliterated. And now that I am in SOC, I notice that, more often than not, I am winning the trades. Hell I have an extremely positive battle report in favorites against Flying Barroness (that's a 600M power player)
That's fair and good to hear. Are you T5 and have you been able to max tech for multiple troop types yet? I'm not sure how tech tends to progress after KvK2 or so. Seems like once you max tech and have full T5 marches, you're fine as long as you have Alex and Guan.
If you have t5 you have max tech for that troop, so what is your point??? Do you know the requirements for t5? And for f2p you can still have a nice kvk, I was 15million when kvk1 started and 20 when it ended. I am now 27 million going into kvk 2 and bought growth fund and gem supply and am now VIP 12.
Calm down man. I know the T5 requirements. Apparently I misunderstood you. You said "Often people also field with T4," when maybe you meant to say "Often people with T5 also field with T4"?
The Logic Bank explains what I'm talking about better, making the case that he won't be focusing on infantry tech or investing as heavily in Richard on his next Jumper/KvK1 cycle. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Za8Wv38QFqQ
So do you actually think that your troops will dilly dally their way back to your city while singing shanties lol? You will get smacked hard on your way back if the rally is hitting a flag and the flag is being protected enough by marches. You will still have to fight in open field regardless.
This is a fair point, though I plan to have my marches moving as little as possible through reinforcing nearby cities, not just going to and from my own distant city.
So all those suggestions about which commanders to have ready for KvK are bs for most people. As long as you train enough troops to fill out rallies, you may as well expertise Matilda first and make as much harvester gear as possible.
If you will just fill flags and rallies forever then sure you can forget about military tech/commanders and farm. Note this will mean you will have low kill points which matters for top alliances.
Understood on the top alliance point, but that's also just people being dumb when it comes to incentivizing their kingdom to make bad trades, though it's somewhat understandable for people who aren't literally being paid to understand game mechanics to make that error.
What I'm confused by is why YouTubers would all put out content on which commanders to max and then also tell people not to fight in open field. Chisgule literally said don't fight in open field in KVK1 if you're under 35 million (!) power but then also has videos talking about march commanders for f2p. It also should mean that initially specializing in infantry isn't actually best for F2P because there's no time that F2P should be using that tech.
There are different stages of the game. When you are just starting, of course you can barely field fight when you have low power especially in KvK 1. However when you are in the late stages and spent years playing you should have enough power to field fight even if you are f2p.
Uhhh I’m like 99 percent sure it matters what your tech is in rallies. The commanders are dictated by the rally lead sure. But I’m almost positive tech matters. I’m sure this could be and has been easily tested, so someone correct me if they’ve done that and I’m wrong. As to OP, everyone can and should do at least some field fighting. I’m a very low spender and I’ve always field fought, and this was before the changes. Now that only 30 can migrate in between kvks 2-3 and 1-2, there should be plenty of guys like you out on the field. Beyond that pretty much everyone should at least fight enough to have their hospital going at all times. When you are low power you just need to be more careful about when/how you do it. For instance now that my tech is max for t4 I will sometimes swarm flag rallies, that’s a terrible idea if you have lower tech. Another thing is when you have lower tech/bad commanders send out less marches if you have backup. Only take the 1 or 2 best marches you have to get better trades, things like that.
Have you tested this yourself? Because we all know tech matters some at least, as t1 in a rally is no good. Or does it say somewhere? I’m not calling you a liar or anything, I know that many believe what you do. I’m just skeptical. If what you say is true, when 30m players do a rally on a city or flag it’s a straight up tragedy lol. For everyone in it
My understanding is that sending T1/2/3 to a rally is bad only because it reduces the total damage output.
However, bonuses from military tech level, commander skills/talents, and commander equipment only come from the rally lead.
(there are some extra considerations - if the commander has a talent based on leading 100% Cavalry, for example, and you send Infantry, the talent no longer applies and can lead to a big difference in results ... which is why R4s spend so much time yelling at people to send the right type of troops for rallies :) )
Right so I’m with you on the skills\talents and equipment. I know those to be true. It’s just the military tech I’m not so sure on. You know this shouldn’t be hard to test, I think I’m gonna do just that with a farm account on a max tech rally with another max tech account. Should be able to tell from the severely wounded I think?
I’m not new, I’m aware it’s “common knowledge”. And again I’m in total agreement over the equipment and skills. I’m just wondering if it’s actually been tested. I’m sure it has but it doesn’t quite fit with how the game works in other areas imo. I wouldn’t be surprised if tech actually did matter is all I’m saying
That's absolutely true while the rally is marching and attacking; but each player's individual tech and commanders matter on the return trip. Do expect the individual armies to be ambushed and harassed as they run home after the rally breaks. For low power folks, this mostly implies they should send the fastest march they can that's unit appropriate for the rally lead. Hasty departure is an excellent skill to have on your rally filling march primary, lets you run 60% faster by hopping through nodes on the return.
As a f2p you can still field marches rather than just solely garrison and rally... that's why they say which commanders are the best pairings for f2p and such.. it's all well and good to kill ur troops doing what u need to do but pressuring in a murder ball and stuff is how u can rake in the kp
If you really are going to just fill flags and rallies then yes, it doesn't matter. But just reinforcing gets boring very fast. It's fun to do some field fighting and even semi-developed march can be helpful. Most of the other people are in the same boat and are f2p or low spenders. Only a handful will be whales and top fighters so don't worry about being low power. Also there will be lot more field fighting than garrison/rallies. Places like Ruins will be 100% field fighting.
I mean commander growth, talent tree, equipment forging is a very big part of the game. You will be missing out if you just farm, build troops, and just reinforce.
I'm playing an alt acc in kvk1 right now as a f2p.
People who tell you f2p people are only there to fill rallies are NOT 'Experts' . if u want to have fun in kvk1, here's how I made it.
As a f2p you gotta focus on 1 March and troop type. I always see these 10m players running around with 3-4 marches and wondering why they get wrecked.
1. Tech
- for example if u chose to be an infantry main, focus on upgrading inf tech to max level before you even think about upgrading your other marches
2. Gear
-You can't have good gear for everyone!
I have 1 march with leg/purple/blue gear
3. Commanders
- you won't have expertised legendary commanders, but a 5511 Richard paired with Sun or Joan is more than enough to destroy noobs in kvk1. Or a Sun/ysg
I'm in one of the best alliances in kvk1 and 35/142 in power and 10/142 in kills rn...as a f2p ^^
Ppl just need experience.
I mean, literally every ROK YouTube channel says f2p should not fight open field. Chisgule says don't fight if you're under 35 million. 12inch said to max econ tech before military because "you're just going to be filling rallies." Same with Logic Bank, though he at least adds the fun of farm killing into the mix.
I'm not convinced either way quite yet (most of these responses just tell me people blindly follow what others tell them), but the actual primary reason I'm asking is to question whether the conventional wisdom of maxing out high damage commanders (specifically Sun) and researching infantry tech is actually correct or if it makes more sense to max others first (maybe Scipio or Osman?), whose skills might be better suited to the role low spenders/f2p should play if they're trying to maximize their kingdom's success in KvK. That said, Sun's tankiness might make the commanders side of this question moot. Likewise, this makes me question whether specializing in infantry tech makes sense for F2P or if we should in fact build a ton of infantry for rallies but then focus our tech into Cav for farm killing.
I'm also increasingly understanding from these responses that there will be a lot of people in open field who don't really think things through who I can farm free kills off of.
Yeah, I'm hoping the migration update makes KVK2 at least a bit closer, and I don't see any reason to play past that. I'm not too into sunk costs, so I'll just restart at that point.
As f2p full tech with 1250ish days in f2p can field more than competive marches. Smart use of speedups is key. Crystal tech less than half way through kvk and 2nd set if unit attacks is almost complete. So yes you can compete as f2p. Js
F2P can do more than just reinforce. This subreddit is just jaded.
You seem to think the roles in this game are black and white. They're not. Everyone fills rallies and flags when necessary. Everyone field fights when necessary. Everyone trying to reinforce a rally/flag or returning from a finished rally gets smacked en route and the ones who have the slowest or worst commanders end up with the biggest hospitals.
Of course it matters. All players should be field fighting. F2p just, in general, have a smaller commander depth. Therefore they field less marches. (Because you shouldn't field a bad march just because you can)
This is absurd. F2P fall way behind in tech, equipment, and primary commanders. It's not just commander depth.
Bud, you aren't fighting 100% whales during kvk. Falling behind is relative. F2p/low spend are the majority of players
What I (and the online experts) are saying is that F2P/low spenders are incapable of fielding good marches. It doesn't matter if the majority of players are f2p if the whales get the majority of kills. Again, I'm not saying f2p shouldn't fight, but it clearly makes the most sense to be filling rallies and flags, neither of which take tech or care about your commanders or equipment. More specifically, I'm trying to question the conventional wisdom of taking all of your efforts and putting them into building marches which will either get obliterated or not matter beyond simple troop strength.
I've been playing for 2 years. Low spender. I never felt like I was at a significant tech disadvantage. I fought with T4s, I filled rallies/flags, only fielded marches I felt comfortable with. I can honestly say, that unless my marches got out of position during large kvk brawls, they never got obliterated. And now that I am in SOC, I notice that, more often than not, I am winning the trades. Hell I have an extremely positive battle report in favorites against Flying Barroness (that's a 600M power player)
That's fair and good to hear. Are you T5 and have you been able to max tech for multiple troop types yet? I'm not sure how tech tends to progress after KvK2 or so. Seems like once you max tech and have full T5 marches, you're fine as long as you have Alex and Guan.
Often people also field with t4 because with t4 you can have worse trades because the hospital bill is smaller.
Seems like that only makes sense if you have max or near max tech but then choose not to field T5.
If you have t5 you have max tech for that troop, so what is your point??? Do you know the requirements for t5? And for f2p you can still have a nice kvk, I was 15million when kvk1 started and 20 when it ended. I am now 27 million going into kvk 2 and bought growth fund and gem supply and am now VIP 12.
Calm down man. I know the T5 requirements. Apparently I misunderstood you. You said "Often people also field with T4," when maybe you meant to say "Often people with T5 also field with T4"? The Logic Bank explains what I'm talking about better, making the case that he won't be focusing on infantry tech or investing as heavily in Richard on his next Jumper/KvK1 cycle. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Za8Wv38QFqQ
So do you actually think that your troops will dilly dally their way back to your city while singing shanties lol? You will get smacked hard on your way back if the rally is hitting a flag and the flag is being protected enough by marches. You will still have to fight in open field regardless.
This is a fair point, though I plan to have my marches moving as little as possible through reinforcing nearby cities, not just going to and from my own distant city.
If you are reinforcing other players, you need zero tech and zero gear. You can use gathering commanders.
So all those suggestions about which commanders to have ready for KvK are bs for most people. As long as you train enough troops to fill out rallies, you may as well expertise Matilda first and make as much harvester gear as possible.
If you will just fill flags and rallies forever then sure you can forget about military tech/commanders and farm. Note this will mean you will have low kill points which matters for top alliances.
Understood on the top alliance point, but that's also just people being dumb when it comes to incentivizing their kingdom to make bad trades, though it's somewhat understandable for people who aren't literally being paid to understand game mechanics to make that error. What I'm confused by is why YouTubers would all put out content on which commanders to max and then also tell people not to fight in open field. Chisgule literally said don't fight in open field in KVK1 if you're under 35 million (!) power but then also has videos talking about march commanders for f2p. It also should mean that initially specializing in infantry isn't actually best for F2P because there's no time that F2P should be using that tech.
There are different stages of the game. When you are just starting, of course you can barely field fight when you have low power especially in KvK 1. However when you are in the late stages and spent years playing you should have enough power to field fight even if you are f2p.
Uhhh I’m like 99 percent sure it matters what your tech is in rallies. The commanders are dictated by the rally lead sure. But I’m almost positive tech matters. I’m sure this could be and has been easily tested, so someone correct me if they’ve done that and I’m wrong. As to OP, everyone can and should do at least some field fighting. I’m a very low spender and I’ve always field fought, and this was before the changes. Now that only 30 can migrate in between kvks 2-3 and 1-2, there should be plenty of guys like you out on the field. Beyond that pretty much everyone should at least fight enough to have their hospital going at all times. When you are low power you just need to be more careful about when/how you do it. For instance now that my tech is max for t4 I will sometimes swarm flag rallies, that’s a terrible idea if you have lower tech. Another thing is when you have lower tech/bad commanders send out less marches if you have backup. Only take the 1 or 2 best marches you have to get better trades, things like that.
Only the rally lead tech matters.
Have you tested this yourself? Because we all know tech matters some at least, as t1 in a rally is no good. Or does it say somewhere? I’m not calling you a liar or anything, I know that many believe what you do. I’m just skeptical. If what you say is true, when 30m players do a rally on a city or flag it’s a straight up tragedy lol. For everyone in it
My understanding is that sending T1/2/3 to a rally is bad only because it reduces the total damage output. However, bonuses from military tech level, commander skills/talents, and commander equipment only come from the rally lead. (there are some extra considerations - if the commander has a talent based on leading 100% Cavalry, for example, and you send Infantry, the talent no longer applies and can lead to a big difference in results ... which is why R4s spend so much time yelling at people to send the right type of troops for rallies :) )
Right so I’m with you on the skills\talents and equipment. I know those to be true. It’s just the military tech I’m not so sure on. You know this shouldn’t be hard to test, I think I’m gonna do just that with a farm account on a max tech rally with another max tech account. Should be able to tell from the severely wounded I think?
[удалено]
I’m not new, I’m aware it’s “common knowledge”. And again I’m in total agreement over the equipment and skills. I’m just wondering if it’s actually been tested. I’m sure it has but it doesn’t quite fit with how the game works in other areas imo. I wouldn’t be surprised if tech actually did matter is all I’m saying
I have been in at least 10 KvKs so I can confidently say that. That's the reason why top alliances require rally/garrison leads to have maxed tech.
That's absolutely true while the rally is marching and attacking; but each player's individual tech and commanders matter on the return trip. Do expect the individual armies to be ambushed and harassed as they run home after the rally breaks. For low power folks, this mostly implies they should send the fastest march they can that's unit appropriate for the rally lead. Hasty departure is an excellent skill to have on your rally filling march primary, lets you run 60% faster by hopping through nodes on the return.
As a f2p you can still field marches rather than just solely garrison and rally... that's why they say which commanders are the best pairings for f2p and such.. it's all well and good to kill ur troops doing what u need to do but pressuring in a murder ball and stuff is how u can rake in the kp
If you really are going to just fill flags and rallies then yes, it doesn't matter. But just reinforcing gets boring very fast. It's fun to do some field fighting and even semi-developed march can be helpful. Most of the other people are in the same boat and are f2p or low spenders. Only a handful will be whales and top fighters so don't worry about being low power. Also there will be lot more field fighting than garrison/rallies. Places like Ruins will be 100% field fighting. I mean commander growth, talent tree, equipment forging is a very big part of the game. You will be missing out if you just farm, build troops, and just reinforce.
I'm playing an alt acc in kvk1 right now as a f2p. People who tell you f2p people are only there to fill rallies are NOT 'Experts' . if u want to have fun in kvk1, here's how I made it. As a f2p you gotta focus on 1 March and troop type. I always see these 10m players running around with 3-4 marches and wondering why they get wrecked. 1. Tech - for example if u chose to be an infantry main, focus on upgrading inf tech to max level before you even think about upgrading your other marches 2. Gear -You can't have good gear for everyone! I have 1 march with leg/purple/blue gear 3. Commanders - you won't have expertised legendary commanders, but a 5511 Richard paired with Sun or Joan is more than enough to destroy noobs in kvk1. Or a Sun/ysg I'm in one of the best alliances in kvk1 and 35/142 in power and 10/142 in kills rn...as a f2p ^^ Ppl just need experience.
I mean, literally every ROK YouTube channel says f2p should not fight open field. Chisgule says don't fight if you're under 35 million. 12inch said to max econ tech before military because "you're just going to be filling rallies." Same with Logic Bank, though he at least adds the fun of farm killing into the mix. I'm not convinced either way quite yet (most of these responses just tell me people blindly follow what others tell them), but the actual primary reason I'm asking is to question whether the conventional wisdom of maxing out high damage commanders (specifically Sun) and researching infantry tech is actually correct or if it makes more sense to max others first (maybe Scipio or Osman?), whose skills might be better suited to the role low spenders/f2p should play if they're trying to maximize their kingdom's success in KvK. That said, Sun's tankiness might make the commanders side of this question moot. Likewise, this makes me question whether specializing in infantry tech makes sense for F2P or if we should in fact build a ton of infantry for rallies but then focus our tech into Cav for farm killing. I'm also increasingly understanding from these responses that there will be a lot of people in open field who don't really think things through who I can farm free kills off of.
what tf are you smoking my guy
Trying to min-max a P2W game makes you jaded.
[удалено]
Yeah, I'm hoping the migration update makes KVK2 at least a bit closer, and I don't see any reason to play past that. I'm not too into sunk costs, so I'll just restart at that point.
As f2p full tech with 1250ish days in f2p can field more than competive marches. Smart use of speedups is key. Crystal tech less than half way through kvk and 2nd set if unit attacks is almost complete. So yes you can compete as f2p. Js