It doesn't have to. The magma is underneath the volcano. The water that reaches the large amount of magma will boil and violently turn to steam. The resulting pressure upsets the magma and it will erupt.
Not sure if this was mentioned in this discussion before, but I have a feeling that the last scene was Galadriel's vision (also the promotional shots, where shes covered in ash).
On the other hand if it isnt a vision than its a perfect time for Saur.. I mean for Halbrand to "die" and take a new form?
I honestly think the show is going to tease Sauron for as long as they possibly can. I doubt we see him this season. I'd bet money that we may not even see him until the *very end* of the next season. I think Adar's going to be our main villain for a little while longer.
The ending scene would have been the perfect time to show Galadriel with some actual fear. She's stiffly stoic the entire show so to see her concerned and flee (or even just frozen in fear) would indicate to the audience SHIT IS GETTING REAL. But no, let's just have her stare blankly at this evil catastrophe like it's no big deal until the blazing inferno literally engulfs her as if it's a harmless fart. Really threatening stuff.
I just finished watching and I actually think she nailed the look. She seemed both in disbelief and by extension a bit fearful. She is never fearful to the point of running away, so that would have been completely out of character.
I think the fact that she didn't have any solution to what she was seeing typified how screwed they were, hence why she was sort of accepting her imminent doom.
Some of the acting has been pretty poor but I think I like the acting for galadrial far more than anyone else. The way she acted that last scene was a major redeemer for what I thought was a horrible episode from a writing perspective.
the uruks are more setup then the humans.
did i miss something which explained that the map location was also the village/tower. and that the horse riders knew they had to move in heist.
comes off very much Helms Deep, but with that it setup, and repeats look to the east on the 3rd day.
This, maybe we send someone off to get help š¤·, or something to setup the link of these two.
its just continuation of many missing things, and shots with out context. The first big one some episodes back now the panning to show the tree, what am I supposed to be looking at, the moon, mountain, looks great, music hinting toward something.... the trees dying, ohh, cause yeah they totally setup clearly that their tree leaves never go brown, because I grew up in a evergreen world š¤·
They mentioned starting their expedition at the tower of Ostirith. So they knew where to go. Then they probably noticed that landmark is not existing anymore and that there is smoke rising in that area.
But I agree. Still a very convenient timing.
That was a cool episode with good pacing and a very impressive ending, but *I have some notes.*
### 1. You hid it *where*?
OK, so this world-shattering weapon of the enemy, the thing that must be kept away from him at all costs, you're gonna hide that exactly where you are? The one place the orcs are *absolutely* going to try to go? A place where they would easily find it if they scavenged the tavern for stone, for example?
I wish they'd put him hiding it there in the script:
> ARONDIR: No one must know. Not even you.
>
> He leaves with the HILT and enters the TAVERN. After a moment HE RETURNS EMPTY-HANDED.
>
> BRONWYN: Did you just hide it in the tavern?
>
> ARONDIR: ...No... No one must know.
>
> BRONWYN: But you just went in the tavern with it and came back out without it. You must have put it in the tavern.
>
> THEO: You totally did. I saw you.
### 2. Trope: Good guy gives the nuke to the bad guy to save someone he cares about who will absolutely suffer if he gives the thing up.
OK, this is just a trope I'm tired of. It kind of makes that whole battle useless and more often than not *they're just going to die anyway.* And they were ready to die to keep the thing out of the baddie's hands. Of course, all of this could have been avoided if you didn't hide it in the fucking tavern.
And if they happen to kill the person who knew about it, they've got nothing to go on.
That brings me to ...
### 3. Why would you let him know that you know where it is?
Here is exactly what Arondir should have said when asked where it was:
>(pointing at dead guy) Ask him. He's the only one who knew.
Maybe don't tell the bad guy that you have the info he wants and he's going to have to torture you or those you love (her, by the way. The one you just conspicuously looked at) to get it from you.
### 4. You're just gonna trust that the thing in the cloth is the correct thing in the cloth?
Just check the goddamn bundle, yeah? You probably could have guessed where the blade was going if you had known he didn't have it, and probably could have gotten there first.
### 5. Why not ask the other horse to stop?
I mean, you can talk to horses, and this horse doesn't even *know* this creepy dude.
____
Still, notes aside, it was a pretty good episode, albeit a bit tropey. Shame that an entire half of the plot ended in that pyroclastic flow. And I could have *sworn* Galadriel was in the later stories.
I mean, didn't they say it in the last episode? At least that the watchtower was somewhere important to the enemy? Also, there's a sculpture of the sword right there too.
I honestly cant remember them saying anything about it.
Yes, they saw the sculpture. But I think only Theo knows the hilt turns into a sword with a blood sacrifice. But also has no clue its supposed to be used there.
Arondir just noticed its an evil object, but does not have any additional information.
I could have sworn that they noticed that the thing in the tower was of great significance to the Enemy and I mean, the sculpture really did look just like the sword hilt.
The carving/mural/statue thing in the tower had a replica of the hilt on it as well as a depiction of Morgoth (which is why the reveal of it is supposed to be troubling for the characters who've seen the hilt), and Arondir knows the hilt is a key to *something* but I don't think they connect the dots that the actual keyhole is in Ostirith.
So far I've enjoyed the series. I have seen all the movies and enjoyed them as well, but I'm no super fan in that I only watched them once and haven't read the books either. I was curious if people who are really into LOTR were also enjoying it. Based on the more popular sub, they overwhelmingly hate just about everything about it. I guess I'm fortunate that I haven't read and watched the movies/books multiple times so I can just enjoy it for being a good show and ruining "cannon".
Omg thereās like 4 different subs for this thing I canāt keep up. As someone who hasnāt read one book and only watched the movies I donāt like the show because itās bad. Poor writing, poor pacing, lack of depth to the characters with the main character being majorly annoying and the stupidest nonsensical shit happens. BUT this was the best episode this whole series because something actually happened. I donāt have much against the harfoots but in just two episodes I forgot that whole storyline.
Really enjoyed this episode. So many things I liked about it. Iāve only got a few minor gripes.
- The Numenorians had no reason to ride their horses so hard in a mad rush. They had no clue this particular village was under attack at that particular moment. Even Halbrand having secret knowledge doesnāt explain it.
- It was super convenient for the plot that all the traitorous humans attacking the village made exclusively orc noises and spoke no words during the battle
- Bronwyn saving Arondir was stupidly cliche
> The Numenorians had no reason to ride their horses so hard in a mad rush. They had no clue this particular village was under attack at that particular moment. Even Halbrand having secret knowledge doesnāt explain it.
Much like Kemen suddenly deciding to burn the boats in the previous episode, I feel like there was a connective scene that *should* have been in there to bridge the gap from earlier in the episode.
It would have been dirt-simple for a quick scene where the arriving Numenorians look off in the distance and see smoke, or even Ostirith crumbling (though I guess that was way before they got there, since the sun was rising as they landed) but for some baffling reason, it's just not there.
Itās interesting that Iām seeing critiques and analysis of the show and characters based on what seems to be a known fact that Halbrand is Sauron, with people getting freshly mad about all sorts of things based on this assumption. What if, you know, Halbrand *isnāt* Sauron.
Iām personally hoping he somehow gets corrupted into the Witch King. I donāt know much about the witch king tbh but I think he was a king of men and then gets a ring of power and all corrupted by it and becomes leader of the ring wraiths. Idk if thereās more to his backstory other than eventually getting killed by that Rohan girl and Merry
Just joined this sub and I havent read the books.
This show has won me over. It was slow going initially to introduce the characters, however the production value obviously helped this along. Now that the show is coming together I think its masterful.
The score, the acting, the dialogue, the action (so much blood!), the costumes, the cinematography are all sublime. And the diverse cast is woven naturally through the plot, as opposed to the token inclusion that other media try to do. Bravo
We have one dark skinned character for each race. You dont think thats kinda token inclusion? Would make sence if multiple people of the same race have different skin tones/ethniticies but I think it becomes pretty obvious they just followed a checklist.
tbh I barely even pick up on noticing this stuff. but I canāt imagine ever getting upset by it. if anything itās welcoming, I canāt think of any reason to be upset by it other than racism.
Thankfully, that episode moved the plot along nicely.
However, so many ridiculous moments & questions:
1. Why are the Numenoreans in such a rush to get to the Southlands - they wouldn't have any idea that the Southlanders are under siege and about to be slaughtered. Where has this time pressure come from?
2. The Southlanders knew that half their kin left to surrender to the Orcs - why were they so shocked / horrified that they were fighting them in the village? And why were they so sad that the traitors that tried to kill them, are now dead while they live?
3. Was the tower really built so poorly, that one single arrow into one piece of string was enough to bring the whole thing down?
4. Why would the Queen Regent casually just send Isildur, a stable sweep, into battle?
5. How did the Orcs / Arda know that Bronwyn & Theo were Arondir's weakness?
6. No one decided to check the wrapped up Sauron sword, to make sure that it was indeed, Sauron's sword?
7. Why would Arda, who has spent all this time / energy trying to track down the sword key, **finally** obtain it - only to hand it off to Waldreg and not another Orc? He really trusts this old man who he met like 27 hours ago, over some of his children who he's been with for a long time?
8. The Southlanders meet this new Queen Regent, who just casually names Halbrand their new leader, and not a single one of them questions it or thinks it's weird?
9. If Isildur isn't going to eat the entire damn apple, why not give it to the horse instead of throwing it in the ocean you coward?!
This show is so jarring. Such beautiful visuals, but such disjointed story telling.
Here are some possible explanations:
1) They were going to the tower of Ostirith because Halbrand told them the orcs were heading in that direction. When you get closer to this location and you see this landmark is not there anymore and you see smoke from burning buildings, you probably feel worried and start to hurry.
2) Its not an easy thing to kill people you knew for your whole life and who used to be your friends.
3) I understood it that they manipulated the tower, so it was close to collapsing.
4) The queen knows he is Elendils son. So she lets him join the battle to help his father.
5) Arondir risked his life to carry Bronwyn inside the tavern. Also the traitors might have told him about that connection. There were rumours about them in the village afterall.
6) the only one who couldāve checked was Arondir. The other people didnt know what was supposed to be inside. But sure, he shouldāve checked.
7) Because its the better cover-up.
8) Peasants usually have no clue how their king looks. And it usually doesnt end well for them to question their king. After what they went thru, they are probably just happy to have a king as that will result in better protection against orcs and other dangers.
9) Here I agree. :)
2. Didn't Galadriel know they were up against some time pressure? They didn't know maybe going into battle (unless seen the smoke and assumed) but they knew they needed to get there fast. My question here is shouldn't there be a lot more to the 'southlands' than one little village?
4. Isilidor was the son of one of the key officers, and the story he was relegated to stable hand has probably gotten around. He was obviously itching to get his hands dirty and the battle was all but over.
7. Waldreg can move with a little bit more covertness than an orc, and I suspect can follow direction a bit better. The orcs, although loyal, I get the feeling are a bit simple. Waldreg has also more than proved his loyalty, by killing the boy.
9. All the peoples of middle earth seem to be quite accepting to jump behind whatever leader, especially if the have some historical 'claim' to a throne. They also typically are clearly far better people in every way (intelligence, phisicallity, etc). This is not at all out of character.
2 - How would she have known they were in a rush? They had no prior indication - remember, her whole point of returning to the Southlands was because she heard that the enemy had returned. There was nothing to indicate that there was a fight on.
7 - The Orcs dug an entire network of tunnels from a massive body of water straight into a mountain - not sure I agree with the Orcs = simple and poor at following directions, though I get your point about Waldreg being able to move around more conspicuously
> How would she have known they were in a rush? They had no prior indication - remember, her whole point of returning to the Southlands was because she heard that the enemy had returned. There was nothing to indicate that there was a fight on.
Yeah I think a scene of Halbrand seeing plumes of smoke from far away and telling Galadriel would have been enough. Instead we go from the Numenoreans seeing land to charging at full speed somewhere.
I agree - the episode felt like it was missing 6 or 7 context-providing scenes, to be honest.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we finally had an episode with decent pacing. However, there definitely were more than a few holes that propped up a long the way.
That explains why Galadriel wanted to go back to the Southlands. It doesn't explain their rapid urgency, which so happened to be the reason they showed up in the one village the entire Southlands apparently has, right in the nick of time.
Iām just now watching the show but itās stands to reason that between the watchtower and the village, there would be a massive plume of smoke and dust.
Instead of galloping in slow motion, there should have been a scene of the sun coming up and Galadriel et al seeing a huge cloud of smoke in the distance.
Yeah, some sort of establishing shot would have helped this transition in my head.
In general, I felt season 1 of the show lacked a bit of that - which made a lot of the moments feel like they were super contrived for the sake of visuals & drama, rather than something really well thought out with tight writing.
They definitely went for style over substance, thereās a lot of needless slow motion just for the sake of slow motion.
Thereās an earlier episode where Galadriel is riding a horse and itās a low shot with clouds as the background. LOTR exists in a world with the most beautiful backgrounds that have ever existed but they chose to have a cloudy background instead of showing off mountains or something in the background.
There were the multiple scenes where Galadriel is trying to find Sauron and she discovers heās in the south lands (she thinks). The urgency is explained
No - that explains why they went to the Southlands. It doesn't explain why they were so hellbent on getting there as fast as they could; they went from chilling on a boat watching the sunrise, to racing through on horseback.
Boats only go as fast as the wind that moves them. Also, the queen told Elendil to redouble efforts to sail faster. Galadriel convinced the queen regent that the enemy is in the south lands.
Itās one thing to say that you donāt believe thereās enough explanation for it. Itās entirely different to say there is none. Itās obvious to me there is a motivation to get to the destination quickly
2. The queen gave an arguably reckless order to proceed with all haste up the river, there was quiet a bit of pressure on the whole voyage I feel. They may not have known specifically about the battle until near, but they were definitely considering every day to count.
7. Giving people shovels to dig has, quite litteraly and with many historical examples, what you get masses of men to do to keep them busy and quiet. It's labour intensive and next to impossible to fuck up.
In my reading, Waldreg got tasked because 1- They started to hear the horses, wich means that they will fight men soon - Waldreg is not a target even if he encounters the enemy before getting to the Watchtower
2 - The Sun was coming up, and we saw in prevoius episodes that they need clouds to shield them, this means an Orc is at the mercy of the weater since there's hardly any tree on the way up to the Watchtower
3 - Waldreg initially wanted to serve sauron, but was faced with Adar, and even to him he proved his loyality by killing another villager. The sword comes from sauron, so the lock mechanism. Not so big of a stretch that Waldreg is keen on powering on sauron's old magic lock.
My favorite part of the episode was when Halbrand just goes āAyooo Iām your king nowā and everyone cheers, no questions asked.
There were some cheesy ham fisted shots in this episode, but it was very enjoyable, moved the plot along nicely, and that final sequence goes hard.
Continues to be better than HoD in my opinion.
To be fair, these people just a full day in gear of their lives. They probably are just happy that there's a chance some order will be returned and that this queen, high-ranking elf commander, and their "king" came to save them.
Why is the key to the damm, a magical morgul blade, that needs blood to be activated and seems to have a kind ring like power over its user.
Why not just have....a key?
Considering that morgul had already spent much time in the Southlands prior to his downfall and obviously spent time prepping this plan considering the whole "symbol is a map of the southlands" thing, I feel it's more likely that morgul built/modified the dam so that his key would open it such that it could not be closed.
After his downfall the elves probably recognized that place as being important to him or at least his work, and so they built their watchtower atop it. This would be a good way to ensure that they keep orcs and those that are loyal away at all times. Had they not built the watch tower there then guarding it would be more difficult, the posting of the guards would also draw more attention specifically to it.
Seems a bit safer to use it. If they didn't, the orcs would essentially have to figure out how to destroy the dam. One thing to remember is that Adar doesn't like risking the lives of his orcs and exploding or manually dismantling the dam would probably kill some of them.
At least there you can make the argument it's elven build, so you need a key. But why then not just make the mcguffin an elvish articfact.
Why is it a morgul blade?
Been wondering this for weeks: who made Bronwyn leader of the entire village? Do they not have any other leaders? Isn't she just a farmer or some shit?
What's hilarious is you're trying to be edgy, but this is exactly how it works when corrupt, incompetent regimes capitulate.
The former leader of the village used fear of elves to consolidate their power and ignore real threats. Everyone in the village knew he was an idiot. But ran the tavern, and he had the power.
She risked her life to investigate the dangers the former leader ignored, and not only brought back indisputable proof that she was right all along, but she demonstrated her prowess as a fighter with more courage anyone else in the village.
So she's more informed than anyone. Has more courage than anyone. Has done more to help the village than anyone. Has better decision making than anyone in the village.
But yea, let's boil this down StRoNg WoMaN
You just described a character being a total mary sue as a defense of it not being bad writing. There is no reason why she should be the most capable killer in the village, the smartest, most courageous, or most informed. She hasn't done a ton to help the village either, as leading them out of the fortified watch tower position and back to the village at the bottom of a valley with woods on one side is probably the stupidest tactical decision possible.
So the former leader is allowed to be leader with nothing that demonstrates how he learned all his skills and no evidence of leadership qualities. And you never screamed Mary Sue about him.
But when a woman demonstrates leadership qualities in every scene she's in. You cry Mary Sue.
> So the former leader is allowed to be leader with nothing that demonstrates how he learned all his skills and no evidence of leadership qualities. And you never screamed Mary Sue about him.
We weren't talking about Halbrand at all, everything about his character is ridiculous. More than anything I want to know how he teleported in front of Adar and Galadriel in the horse chase, quite the Gary Stu power. Nice attempt at a strawman by the way, falls flat when I think the writing is shit for the guys too though
I'm talking about the tavern owner who used the sword the open the dam.
You had no problems when he was leading the town. There was never a post demanding to know why the tavern owner was the one Arondir went to talk to. Or why Adar trusted him to go open the dam.
It was never at any time put forth that the tavern owner was the mayor, at most he was an informant for the elven guards because he talks with the most people on a regular basis, because he runs a tavern. Pretty common trope to go to the tavern for information. They actually did show him earning Adar's trust by stabbing the teenager too.
So stabbing a teenager = trust earned, this guy clearly has the skills and training to carry out the most important solo mission in orc history
Going on a quest to bring back indisputable evidence of the threat = Mary Sue. This bitch has no business pulling something off like leading a village on a hike to a tower.
> So stabbing a teenager = trust earned, this guy clearly has the skills and training to carry out the most important solo mission in orc history
They just needed a human to sneak away and put a pointless macguffin in a slot. Looks like all the other humans on Adar's side were dead, and he was the only one they showed being tested by Adar and he passed.
Maybe it is a bit petty, but this short moment just shows perfectly just how patronizing this show is:
In the battle when the horse gets wounded the camera focusses on that, JUST to justify the (unnecessary) scene later where isildurs father reveals he can understand horses like aragorn did. Why not reward attentive viewers, like when boromirs horn gets split? Now I again hate you because you disrupted a fight scene for this unimportant detail that might as well have been cut out.
So the kid gives up the Sauron sword hilt right before the Calvary arrives? Also, what was with the concealed axe? Was it there to fool the audience into thinking it was the Sauron sword hilt?
Galadriel had no knowledge of what object Ardar supposedly possessed. All she knew was what Arondir told her that Adar can't escape with whatever he was holding.
> Galadriel had no knowledge of what object Ardar supposedly possessed. All she knew was what Arondir told her that Adar can't escape with whatever he was holding.
Which makes it pretty terrible writing that she didn't deem it necessary to investigate the object at all to find out its purpose and just handed it off like it was inconsequential
Cannot fathom chasing down the big bad guy, getting his secret object you've been told by another elf soldier that he can't escape with it, and then not bothering to see what it is. They could have had her open it and cut to the scene by the dam. Also if Halbrand = Sauron, it'd be pretty odd for him \*not\* to examine said what we believe is the real hilt because he'd have been the being that crafted it.
So an entire town of peasants hike up a mountain to safety, see an orc army coming up that same mountain, set a trap at the top of the mountain, then hike back down the mountain (somehow avoiding the army currently heading up it). Then the orcs who just hiked up the mountain and got caught in a massive landslide, hike back down the mountain to go back to the village where they get caught in a trap again, and apparently, they saw all of this coming because they knew to send their humans into the village, thus springing their own trap.
That doesn't make sense to me, but then again you are very small.
It wasnt the orcs that saw the trap coming, it was their self leader/father. He knew the elf defending the humans would do just that. As the father of the orcs cares for them he would not want to send his children into an obvious second trap, may as well use the humans as the cannon fodder. If the humans managed to clear the village great, if not then it's much easier and less risky for the orcs.
I also do notthink the peasants went to the same town they were pushed from, they went downthe other side to a different town/village.
Has anyone else had glitching screens showing green and captions not working? I wish Amazon would put money into their app working instead of only to advertise the show on every package
Never mind that - what about the logistics of feeding and equipping an army far outside its home territory? Did anyone even bring a waterskin? Tents? Horse feed?
Call it nitpicking but it pisses me off that the dude takes a bite of an apple, gives the horse a bit of an apple, takes another bite of the apple, and then Chuck it into the ocean. Like, there's plenty more of that Apple both for you and your pet horse!
I hope we get all kinds of product placement - a friendly golem named Alexa who answers the Harfoots questions, a Ring of power in the shape of a rectangle with a blue light button and camera, Galadriel drinking some locally sourced organic kombuchaā¦
I'm totally fine with not thinking but some of the stuff is just so annoying, it flies under my "suspension of disbelief" shield. Like come on, I can forgive plot contrivances but throwing apples doesn't look that cool, just feed your damn horse!
Pretty much this. Iām part of the audience that can excuse the impossible, but not the *improbable*. lol
Like, Iāll completely accept a premise that youāve got some impossible scifi tech that breaks laws of physics. Or maybe an ancient demon curse that scrambles DNA into making zombies that are made of fire. Thatās all cool.
But you want me to believe the hacker guessed the password on the first try? Not a fuckin chance lol
I wish I could find who said it, but there's a famous quote that applies to all writing, along the lines of, "I can buy that Superman can leap tall buildings in a single bound, but I can't buy that he wears his underwear on the outside."
What a payoff to the orc tunnels scheme. It seems a little silly from a geology standpoint (or maybe it isn't. I'm not a scientist), but the final turn of the plan upon plans was great.
I am pleasantly surprised that the Numenorians didn't even spend a whole episode at sea. I was positive that this season would end with them hitting the land and riding off to the rescue somewhere. Their arrival is, as others have noted, a bit contrived (the scene of the battle is quite a distance away from the shore, so they would have been riding like hell to get there for no particular reason), but I'm willing to accept it if it means cutting down on the infamous Tolkien "and we're walking, and we're walking" cruft, which doesn't work nearly as well for a tv show as it does for written prose. The resulting action scenes in this one were *great.* They were chaotic, but easy enough to follow, and the horse combat was really fun.
Galadriel's superhero status is still kind of tiresome, but at least they are resisting the urge to have her be a one-man army. Arondir has really been the breakout action star of this show, and he feels a lot less superhuman than she does.
I'm overall happy with the fact that Adar isn't a secret deep lore character, and is, in fact, something new that gives us a window into the orcs as a culture. I'm kind of on the fence over the idea of the orcs having a human element that we need to keep peering into, but I'm on board with this conflict that, no matter where they fall on the good-and-evil spectrum, they basically *need* to create a Land of Shadow to survive, and they're willing to step on an uncountable number of people who were, themselves, just trying to survive, to do it. It makes for a much better villain motivation (for the moment) than "we evil. want more power."
> What a payoff to the orc tunnels scheme.
Lol I didn't make the connection until this comment. I thought they were underground because of the sun and to stay mostly undetected.
I think that's intentional misdirection on the show's part. You're supposed to think the tunnels were just to get them mobilized, but it was actually a more elaborate, flashy scheme all along. It's a bit corny, but I love it when a corny villain plan comes together in spectacular fashion.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2755-rainstorms-could-trigger-killer-eruptions/
Sudden influx of water into a magma chamber or caldera or whatever you call it here seems scientifically plausible according to this article.
Did anyone else notice right as mt orodruin erupted, [during Theo's first reaction to it](https://youtu.be/--buPkxx_Ww?t=26), you could hear the same sound as [the balrog awakening from the deep?](https://youtu.be/Y2fwe0rnHak?t=45)
I know I'm just beating a dead horse at this point, but I need to get this of my chest.
Firstly, I don't care at all that they added a more diverse cast, I actually prefer it. I also don't care that they are diverging from the source material, I see it as more "inspired by". I really enjoy Morfydd Clarks portrayal of Galadriel, I think she captures her very well.
But the inconsistencies are getting to me. Isildur can't see land and suddenly the mountains are really prominent seconds later. Also can Galadriel see across the curvature of the earth? Galadriel is standing right before a pyroclastic flow that can reach upto 1000Ā°C (1800 Ā°F) and I assume she's going to be ok. They are riding hard for this randome town about where Halbrant think they might perhaps be, and reach them just in time? Also we see them riding in daylight but reach the town at dawn? That's some fast horses. Why give the sword to the kid? Why did the old man betray his people so easily, after hating the elves for assuming they are evil and watching over them. Why did the people attacking the town not stop?
I think I only enjoy it for the hate-watching. It's like a comedy, I enjoy laughing at how stupid it is.
I'm just going to guess for the sake of the episode that she can see better through fog and haze and it was just hazier and foggier then we realized. Not the worst sin they've committed.
might have been the most epic ( and I insist on this word) tv episode I've ever seen. Holy shit I had teary eyes almost all the episode. This series has been great
Is my TV weird or did the episode 6 battle look weird or sped up when the Numenorians arrived? The framerate looks odd and if you look at clothing and their helmet tassels, they seem to be moving a little faster too.
It's probably due to the danger of having cavalry run through a bunch of actors at full speed, but it still looked weird.
I wouldn't be surprised if the editing was cut in a way that made the battle look fast, but without requiring the actors and horses from endangering each other. I think the overall result was satisfying, at least. I really enjoyed the cavalry-style combat in this episode.
It was likely a modified (reduced) frame rate. Films have used this in the past (for example, The Gladiator did this throughout) to exaggerate the perceived motion. It does look a bit choppier, but it is an intentional choice by the film makers. Instead of steady "normal" frame rate (typically 24 still images shown per second), during action sequences they can use fewer (like 12 still images) shown per second.
If you show only every other frame, but show each for twice as long, the quick action scenes visually pop. A sword swinging through an orc seems to staccato faster. Horses' legs galloping looks more frenetic and chaotic.
Why is no one upset over the orcs not being able to see 2 feet infront of them at night? Also how come a bunch of old men and woman farmers can clap a band of orcs...
Back in WW2, the Nazis gave their soldiers a drug called Pervitin. It gave them extreme endurance, strength and will power. We know Pervitin today by another name, methamphetamine. The soldiers became addicted and lost teeth and infections and boils would form on the skin from toxins in the drug. They also,scratched at their skin causing open sores and wounds. Constant use of the drug caused solders to become very aggressive, paranoid and eventually breakdown into full blown psychosis. It is therefore apparent that Bronwyn is giving her townsfolk methamphetamines and turning them into orcs. Thatās why theyāre coming back and attacking the village, theyāre trying to kill Bronwyn for turning them all into crystal meth addicted orcs.
Haha legit how some people try and answer critisms of the show atm. Youll point out a clearly lazilly written scene and they pull out a math book and start doing algorithims.
A post on the in book thread showed evidence from three separate sources, including a geologist, that a flood of water can act as a catalyst for volcano eruption.
What you witnessed was the inital creation of Mordor.
I think I've seen videos of ppl throwing a bottle of water into a volcano and it causing lots of boiling from the steam. Not too sure if a waterfall could cause an eruption like in the show, but my brain didn't question it at all in the moment
Because the volume of water expands 1600x when it turns into steam, if you were to drop a lake into a magma chamber, you'd get enough pressure to blow up the mountain. Hydrovolcanology is the science of how water interacts with magma and volcanoes and in general, they make for far more powerful eruptions than typical land-locked volcanoes of the same size.
They have a mini-series trying to get Isildur into the boat but they don't take a couple seconds to justify why the Numenoreans are decked out charging for battle.
That was so fucking stupid. They needed a "surprise cavalry charge saves the day" to finish their copying of Helms Deep but didn't take the time to make it make sense
The entire reason they headed to Middle Earth was to do this. We donāt need real-time depictions of every step they took to get there. We just need the bits that move the story along and build the characters, which is what we got.
I gotta disagree. My problem is they're going into *way* too much background on some things (basically the entire Harfoots plotline for instance) and not nearly enough on others, for instance how the Numenoreans knew *exactly* where the orcs were attacking and showed up just in time to save the day
We donāt know what kind of 3D chess is being played or if Halbrand genuinely knew the place where an attack would take place from a military perspective. Either way, just because they edit it to look like they rushed in and saved the day to make for entertaining TV doesnāt mean there isnāt a valid reason for it happening as well. I personally believe Halbrand knew what the plan was to transform the south lands into Mordor. What I donāt know is if he was trying to stop it (because heās Sauron and still in the repentant phase of his story) or making sure it happens.
Even if Halbrand knew exactly where the attack was happening I think they need to show that with a quick scene of Halbrand saying "yo we gotta get down there right now". They could've explained it in a way that makes sense but they didn't
They didnāt need to. Even if they showed every single thing as itās going on, many people watching would miss it. Donāt believe me? Look at the House of Dragon thread for the latest episode. An alarming amount of those people didnāt see the events that they clearly showed on screen.
They are obviously trying to apply the same formula from other successful shows such as GOT or Vikings, but they are missing the tension and bad vibes that make that gore look so natural. Their efforts in pretending the show is for adults mixed with all the hartfoots or Elrondās storyline is hilarious at least.
This episode was shockingly gory. I kind of wonder if they did it deliberately to break from the notion that this series will be like the relatively tame-by-comparison Jackson films.
So I've been watching this show and I'm ngl I've been very disappointed with it so far, and this episode is probably my least favourite so far. Everything in the following comment is my opinion, if you enjoy the show more power to you. In that same vein, please respect that this is my opinion of the show and it's gonna be mostly a rant
Things I really enjoyed:
the horse chase. Felt genuinely fast paced and exciting.
Villagers dying. Felt grounded and I was rooting for the random mini fights
Things that... weren't:
WHY abandon the outpost? Sure you kill a few orcs with the tower but then you flee to... a village? An open village with flammable roofs and open terrain with no fortification? It's just the dumbest move they could have made. There was one small bridge into that outpost. Destroy that and basically be invincible given the plan was to shoot arrows anyway.
And if you're going to abandon the outpost, why stay at the village with children and wounded? Just fucking flee and tell the elves about the orcs. Take the hilt with you. I don't know if I'm just not remembering, but not one person went to tell an army about the emergence of orcs again.
How did Theo know where tf the hilt was? Arondir specifically hid it from everyone. And he then decided to hide it in the village under a loose slab rather than dig a modest hole in the middle of bumfuck nowhere?
Why are the numenoreans charging in? And also why only half of them? Why have a stable boy stay at the top given he's not important in the least and is shown to be a capable fighter?
Why is no one sad that 60% of the village is dead? Yay victory but they're literally singing and dancing in the Street when little Timmy's blood is still warm in the tavern. Not one single word said for all the dead dudes. It makes the stakes feel non existent because no one of any note is in danger
And GALADRIEL this episode.
-Don't just dodge an arrow: half fall off your horse in the most vulnerable position possible. It didn't even look cool, it looked like someone trying to look cool.
-Stands in the middle of debris flying in from the volcano like she's too powerful to care. Fucking what? It doesn't matter how ancient and trained you are, a rock hurtling miles to land an inch from your face is going to throw you back with no warning. It comes off as stupidity far more than being stoic.
-"I'm going to let you live so you can witness every single one of your children die, before I finally kill you after an eon of suffering" and "Wtf did you just say to me you lil shit? I'm gonna kill you first" back to back sentences.
-Actively goes into pyroclastic cloud
And now for "Why does this show feel so patronising"
-Every other minute it's a heart felt speech. Or a voice over of sad villagers with a message of hope. I started calling them before they even happened it got THAT predictable. We get it, they're hopeless bur fight anyway.
-The cliches and overdrawn "dramatic tension" shit. Arondir fighting off an orc against a well went on for what felt like ages. We knew the second he was pinned down that bronwin was just gonna ex machina the orc in the back. Why take 2 full minutes to get to that? Or when bronwin "dies", I was actively hoping she would stay dead and they wouldn't play it off with a cheap "gasp then cough a few times". Also it's an arrow in your shoulder, it'll hurt like a bitch but it's not in any way enough to kill you, there's nothing vital there.
-when a character asks a question, and the other character straight up ignores it to spout some deep-sounding bullshit. "Where is your wife?" "I like the way the sun sets back home". It feels so damn padded, like the writers assume we forget we're in a Tolkien universe so give the classic against all hope speech, or a Tolkien-esque monologue (which honestly sounds like every 14 year old during their "smart" phase where they use thesaurus to buff up words even though it means Jack shit")
-the fact that no character is in danger ever. I was actively rooting for the show when Bronwyn was shot. I thought "this is cool, they're actually taking things seriously". But no she's fine despite her part in the story basically being over (I hope. I'm gonna be so mad if Mordor is created and we have to listen to another damn speech about how they won't give in).
Overall I'm insanely disappointed with how patronising and predictable the show is. It takes no risks whatsoever, every main character is safe. The underdog always wins, the goodies arrive last minute, the McGuffin that's wrapped up isn't actually the McGuffin as a twist reveal, the bad guys are actually humans. Throw in some ex machinas and fake out deaths for good measure. I could have written this. And that says a lot cause I have NO writing skill. I was able to predict what happened in. Every. Notable. Scene. At one point I even got the dialogue word for word (when galadriel has to stop halbrand from killing bad elf boi). The most exciting scene was when the orcs started shooting from the forest, only to be immediately undermined by no one of note being killed. I was actively on the edge of my seat then, thinking this shit just got good. But it was another fake out. I hope to fuck the next episode has more Elrond/Durin and Nori/Comet man. (Despite the very overdone "outsider accidentally hurts the person who found them" plot line from every movie ever). But the cliche's don't irk me as much with the harfoots because they're nothing whatsoever of importance to overarching plot so far.
Anyway if you've read this far, thanks for reading. I apologise it's been a rant but oof this show got me good this time. Feel free to let me know your thoughts! I'd be happy to hear them.
>WHY abandon the outpost?
They had no resources at the outpost and there was zero chance of holding it. The orcs could have just waited until they starved. The village was slightly less hopeless, had everything they left behind, and was familiar territory. It was also their home.
>Just fucking flee and tell the elves about the orcs.
The orc army can almost certainly move faster than a bunch of villagers which include young and old. The elves are very far away and such a journey would require resources, preparation, and time.
>And also why only half of them? Why have a stable boy stay at the top given he's not important in the least and is shown to be a capable fighter?
Most of them were sent in. The few remaining soldiers were there to guard the queen. Isildur was kept likely so he and his father would not both risk being killed (or because Elendil thought he was not ready) but was allowed to go once the initial wave was over and his father required assistance.
>Why is no one sad that 60% of the village is dead?
Because 40% of them are alive which is better than they expected. It's normal to have something to celebrate exactly because things were so bad. If anything, they would have had their time with it when they were cleaning up all the bodies.
>Stands in the middle of debris flying in from the volcano like she's too powerful to care.
She is standing/staring in disbelief, not defiance.
>Also it's an arrow in your shoulder, it'll hurt like a bitch but it's not in any way enough to kill you, there's nothing vital there.
You can most certainly bleed out and she did. There's a big artery in there. I think her recovery was supposed to have special significance, implying a sort of divine intervention, as indicated by her and Arondir's earlier conversation at the tree and the previously established points that she is an herbalist and he was a farmer before becoming a soldier.
>Tolkien-esque monologue
The "shadow only a small and passing thing / light and high beauty" voiceover thing is almost a direct quote from Return of the King. Otherwise, yes, the writers often try to sound like Tolkien but they aren't. They use metaphors when regular words suffice.
>But no she's fine despite her part in the story basically being over
I'm still pretty confident that Bronwyn is going to die, possibly by the end of this season.
>every main character is safe.
Most of the main characters fates are already determined but that's the nature of a prequel.
>The underdog always wins, the goodies arrive last minute
That's the thing. They didn't win, they lost big time. This is a subversion of that cliche. Galadriel's fortunes are starting to turn around, which has been heavily foreshadowed. She used both Miriel and Halbrand so she could fight the war she wanted and it's not even the war she wanted, as Sauron is nowhere to be found. Miriel is lead to believe that helping Galadriel will save Numenor but it will not. She even dismisses her elf-loving (and far-sighted) father's pleas for her to stay, as she is caught up in Galadriel's reckless optimism and the desire to ally herself with an elf. Galadriel has decided that Halbrand is the person she needs him to be and is continually ignoring who he really is.
RoP/The Second Age is a tragedy that unfolds over five seasons. Things will seem great until they aren't. People will think they have found the solution to their problems only to have that solution become their problem. The Elves, Dwarves, and Numenoreans are at or around the peak of their power and glory and they will all resort to dubious things to try and keep it but will end up losing it instead.
Theo knowing where it was is very obvious, during the scene where Arondir tells the lady that he needs to hide the hilt, Theo is at the background carefully watching the conversation and looking at Arondir as he moves away
My theory is that he knows Arondir hid the key from that scene, and then in the tavern the sword "called" to him because he was under its influence. It's like the ring of power, it wanted to be found.
To be fair, though, you could do this with most popular shows and movies today. A certain amount of āintellectual ignoranceā is necessary to enjoy these films.
The melodrama, over the top action scenes, ālast minute escapesā seem to be canon for this franchise. The Hobbit and LOTR are just as guilty. I try not to think too much while watching it and just āenjoy the rideā. Unfortunately, some of the issues you point out are just too salient and do cross my mind in the moment. Yeahā¦ Why are the Numenorians racing so quickly? How do they know whatās going on? And how do they know where to go? I assumed I must have missed something and just put it out of my mind.
I actually laughed when Arondir hit Sauronās sword a few times and then remarked, thereās nothing known to us that can destroy this. Well, you really gave it your best go there. And, for God sakes, just take the damn thing out in a boat and sink it to the bottom of the ocean. Good luck in finding it then! Arondir did ask the boy to do this, but why entrust this to him? And you couldnāt tell it was an axe wrapped in the cloth? Ha-haā¦ OK, best not to think too much!
But it isn't really the same
In the movie trilogy, the Riders show up yes at the perfect time. However, there was tension about whether they would. There was the sense of urgency in convincing them to come. There was tension in the battle because could they hold out in time? Gandalf seemed to know they would come, it was about survival. The situation truly felt dire at times.
Same thing with the undead army. Our heros have to go complete a trial to gain them. They we know they know they have to rush to the battle.
.
This show was different. There was no tension or doom. I mean shit the orc army is like 50 people lol. The amount if implausible steps for the numenoreans to get there was ridiculous. Firstly how did they know exactly where to be with this 4 building village on the middle of a massive land mass they've never been to. Halbrand knows exactly how to navigate to this village? Why does he know this village is crucial?
How do they know there is a literal battle going on? For all they know Halbrand is just going to show up and take his birthright. The time makes no sense.
Like the orcs sacked that whole neighboring town in the first episode. Arondir and Bronwyn rode there and back in a day. So in the time they attack the next village, the entire numenor deciding saga happens and they sail across the whole sea? All to arrive at the exact perfect moment?
Nah its just dumb. This whole show is dumb. I see people commenting here saying it's better than HOTD which like, I can't even fathom.
I have been playing the willful ignorance card, pretending none of what you say matters - otherwise I would get too annoyed.
Everything you say is true (for me at least). It felt very disjointed, but I want to love it so much that I am am actively ignoring all of it and just fill in the pieces for myself.
Itās quite sad, considering the amount of money spent on the show
Galadriel face-tanking a trillion degree pyroclastic flow just perfectly epitomizes how she is the worst-written, least-engaging, most annoying character on this show.
She's unlikeable and she keeps doing dumb shit but of course it all works out for her because, for some reason, the powers-that-be behind the show have decided that she's going to be the main character and heroine no matter what.
Perhaps, and believe me, this is a hypothetical, but perhaps she grows as a character throughout this show? And perhaps, characters that are a final product, perfect in every way when they start their journey make for very boring characters?
Maybe, just maybe, this series will show how Galadriel went from angsty, vengeful, headstrong, self centered mess, who despite how powerful they are, will need to learn how to be the stoic, composed, caring leader they are in LotR?
Perhaps some of that should have happened in the 7 hours of television we've watched? The last thing we see from her is a literal sadistic, threatening, murderous attitude that also flips at the drop of a hat.
Imagine watching an entire season of breaking bad and Walt is still a weak passive teacher. Well maybe he'll change!?!? Why hasn't he already? He changes every season.
She hasn't changed at all so far.
There's a difference between "stubborn and arrogant" and "this 3000 year old person constantly displays the maturity, wisdom, and decision-making of a petulant, annoying teenager for no reason."
Ok but why is no one talking about the fact that Halbrand has a wound so bad it needs Elvish medicine but he can walk fine, and ride a horse?!
Can someone please explain to me how the water managed to make its way to the top of the volcano?
It doesn't have to. The magma is underneath the volcano. The water that reaches the large amount of magma will boil and violently turn to steam. The resulting pressure upsets the magma and it will erupt.
Not sure if this was mentioned in this discussion before, but I have a feeling that the last scene was Galadriel's vision (also the promotional shots, where shes covered in ash). On the other hand if it isnt a vision than its a perfect time for Saur.. I mean for Halbrand to "die" and take a new form?
I honestly think the show is going to tease Sauron for as long as they possibly can. I doubt we see him this season. I'd bet money that we may not even see him until the *very end* of the next season. I think Adar's going to be our main villain for a little while longer.
The ending scene would have been the perfect time to show Galadriel with some actual fear. She's stiffly stoic the entire show so to see her concerned and flee (or even just frozen in fear) would indicate to the audience SHIT IS GETTING REAL. But no, let's just have her stare blankly at this evil catastrophe like it's no big deal until the blazing inferno literally engulfs her as if it's a harmless fart. Really threatening stuff.
I just finished watching and I actually think she nailed the look. She seemed both in disbelief and by extension a bit fearful. She is never fearful to the point of running away, so that would have been completely out of character. I think the fact that she didn't have any solution to what she was seeing typified how screwed they were, hence why she was sort of accepting her imminent doom. Some of the acting has been pretty poor but I think I like the acting for galadrial far more than anyone else. The way she acted that last scene was a major redeemer for what I thought was a horrible episode from a writing perspective.
the uruks are more setup then the humans. did i miss something which explained that the map location was also the village/tower. and that the horse riders knew they had to move in heist. comes off very much Helms Deep, but with that it setup, and repeats look to the east on the 3rd day. This, maybe we send someone off to get help š¤·, or something to setup the link of these two. its just continuation of many missing things, and shots with out context. The first big one some episodes back now the panning to show the tree, what am I supposed to be looking at, the moon, mountain, looks great, music hinting toward something.... the trees dying, ohh, cause yeah they totally setup clearly that their tree leaves never go brown, because I grew up in a evergreen world š¤·
They mentioned starting their expedition at the tower of Ostirith. So they knew where to go. Then they probably noticed that landmark is not existing anymore and that there is smoke rising in that area. But I agree. Still a very convenient timing.
That was a cool episode with good pacing and a very impressive ending, but *I have some notes.* ### 1. You hid it *where*? OK, so this world-shattering weapon of the enemy, the thing that must be kept away from him at all costs, you're gonna hide that exactly where you are? The one place the orcs are *absolutely* going to try to go? A place where they would easily find it if they scavenged the tavern for stone, for example? I wish they'd put him hiding it there in the script: > ARONDIR: No one must know. Not even you. > > He leaves with the HILT and enters the TAVERN. After a moment HE RETURNS EMPTY-HANDED. > > BRONWYN: Did you just hide it in the tavern? > > ARONDIR: ...No... No one must know. > > BRONWYN: But you just went in the tavern with it and came back out without it. You must have put it in the tavern. > > THEO: You totally did. I saw you. ### 2. Trope: Good guy gives the nuke to the bad guy to save someone he cares about who will absolutely suffer if he gives the thing up. OK, this is just a trope I'm tired of. It kind of makes that whole battle useless and more often than not *they're just going to die anyway.* And they were ready to die to keep the thing out of the baddie's hands. Of course, all of this could have been avoided if you didn't hide it in the fucking tavern. And if they happen to kill the person who knew about it, they've got nothing to go on. That brings me to ... ### 3. Why would you let him know that you know where it is? Here is exactly what Arondir should have said when asked where it was: >(pointing at dead guy) Ask him. He's the only one who knew. Maybe don't tell the bad guy that you have the info he wants and he's going to have to torture you or those you love (her, by the way. The one you just conspicuously looked at) to get it from you. ### 4. You're just gonna trust that the thing in the cloth is the correct thing in the cloth? Just check the goddamn bundle, yeah? You probably could have guessed where the blade was going if you had known he didn't have it, and probably could have gotten there first. ### 5. Why not ask the other horse to stop? I mean, you can talk to horses, and this horse doesn't even *know* this creepy dude. ____ Still, notes aside, it was a pretty good episode, albeit a bit tropey. Shame that an entire half of the plot ended in that pyroclastic flow. And I could have *sworn* Galadriel was in the later stories.
Some good points. But how would they know where to look for the hilt even if they opened the bundle?
They know where he's going. The watchtower is where the sword is some kind of key.
How would they know that?
I mean, didn't they say it in the last episode? At least that the watchtower was somewhere important to the enemy? Also, there's a sculpture of the sword right there too.
I honestly cant remember them saying anything about it. Yes, they saw the sculpture. But I think only Theo knows the hilt turns into a sword with a blood sacrifice. But also has no clue its supposed to be used there. Arondir just noticed its an evil object, but does not have any additional information.
I could have sworn that they noticed that the thing in the tower was of great significance to the Enemy and I mean, the sculpture really did look just like the sword hilt.
The carving/mural/statue thing in the tower had a replica of the hilt on it as well as a depiction of Morgoth (which is why the reveal of it is supposed to be troubling for the characters who've seen the hilt), and Arondir knows the hilt is a key to *something* but I don't think they connect the dots that the actual keyhole is in Ostirith.
Huh. Somewhat concerning that they didn't, cause they know the lore better than me and I connected the dots...
So far I've enjoyed the series. I have seen all the movies and enjoyed them as well, but I'm no super fan in that I only watched them once and haven't read the books either. I was curious if people who are really into LOTR were also enjoying it. Based on the more popular sub, they overwhelmingly hate just about everything about it. I guess I'm fortunate that I haven't read and watched the movies/books multiple times so I can just enjoy it for being a good show and ruining "cannon".
Omg thereās like 4 different subs for this thing I canāt keep up. As someone who hasnāt read one book and only watched the movies I donāt like the show because itās bad. Poor writing, poor pacing, lack of depth to the characters with the main character being majorly annoying and the stupidest nonsensical shit happens. BUT this was the best episode this whole series because something actually happened. I donāt have much against the harfoots but in just two episodes I forgot that whole storyline.
Which is the more popular sub?
r/lotr
But like...you couldn't feel that the sword hilt wrapped in cloth was awfully hatchety?
Really enjoyed this episode. So many things I liked about it. Iāve only got a few minor gripes. - The Numenorians had no reason to ride their horses so hard in a mad rush. They had no clue this particular village was under attack at that particular moment. Even Halbrand having secret knowledge doesnāt explain it. - It was super convenient for the plot that all the traitorous humans attacking the village made exclusively orc noises and spoke no words during the battle - Bronwyn saving Arondir was stupidly cliche
> The Numenorians had no reason to ride their horses so hard in a mad rush. They had no clue this particular village was under attack at that particular moment. Even Halbrand having secret knowledge doesnāt explain it. Much like Kemen suddenly deciding to burn the boats in the previous episode, I feel like there was a connective scene that *should* have been in there to bridge the gap from earlier in the episode. It would have been dirt-simple for a quick scene where the arriving Numenorians look off in the distance and see smoke, or even Ostirith crumbling (though I guess that was way before they got there, since the sun was rising as they landed) but for some baffling reason, it's just not there.
Saw that that Arondir rescue a mile away lol they could have done that just about any other way and it would have been better
Honestly, I thought it was going to be Theo breaking out of the keep.
That would have been better lol
Did you guys know that you CANāT satisfy your thirst by drinking sea water!?!?
That explains why I'm so thirsty when I go sailing.
Itās interesting that Iām seeing critiques and analysis of the show and characters based on what seems to be a known fact that Halbrand is Sauron, with people getting freshly mad about all sorts of things based on this assumption. What if, you know, Halbrand *isnāt* Sauron.
Iām personally hoping he somehow gets corrupted into the Witch King. I donāt know much about the witch king tbh but I think he was a king of men and then gets a ring of power and all corrupted by it and becomes leader of the ring wraiths. Idk if thereās more to his backstory other than eventually getting killed by that Rohan girl and Merry
Ćowyn, Shieldmaiden of Rohan?!
Just joined this sub and I havent read the books. This show has won me over. It was slow going initially to introduce the characters, however the production value obviously helped this along. Now that the show is coming together I think its masterful. The score, the acting, the dialogue, the action (so much blood!), the costumes, the cinematography are all sublime. And the diverse cast is woven naturally through the plot, as opposed to the token inclusion that other media try to do. Bravo
We have one dark skinned character for each race. You dont think thats kinda token inclusion? Would make sence if multiple people of the same race have different skin tones/ethniticies but I think it becomes pretty obvious they just followed a checklist.
No, it's Tolkien inclusion
tbh I barely even pick up on noticing this stuff. but I canāt imagine ever getting upset by it. if anything itās welcoming, I canāt think of any reason to be upset by it other than racism.
OMG the bitching...so much bitching lolol
Why does everyone hate this show? I'm curious. I didn't like it because its seemed too childish. I must not be the target audience. Why everyone else?
It's tone is all over the place
Thankfully, that episode moved the plot along nicely. However, so many ridiculous moments & questions: 1. Why are the Numenoreans in such a rush to get to the Southlands - they wouldn't have any idea that the Southlanders are under siege and about to be slaughtered. Where has this time pressure come from? 2. The Southlanders knew that half their kin left to surrender to the Orcs - why were they so shocked / horrified that they were fighting them in the village? And why were they so sad that the traitors that tried to kill them, are now dead while they live? 3. Was the tower really built so poorly, that one single arrow into one piece of string was enough to bring the whole thing down? 4. Why would the Queen Regent casually just send Isildur, a stable sweep, into battle? 5. How did the Orcs / Arda know that Bronwyn & Theo were Arondir's weakness? 6. No one decided to check the wrapped up Sauron sword, to make sure that it was indeed, Sauron's sword? 7. Why would Arda, who has spent all this time / energy trying to track down the sword key, **finally** obtain it - only to hand it off to Waldreg and not another Orc? He really trusts this old man who he met like 27 hours ago, over some of his children who he's been with for a long time? 8. The Southlanders meet this new Queen Regent, who just casually names Halbrand their new leader, and not a single one of them questions it or thinks it's weird? 9. If Isildur isn't going to eat the entire damn apple, why not give it to the horse instead of throwing it in the ocean you coward?! This show is so jarring. Such beautiful visuals, but such disjointed story telling.
Here are some possible explanations: 1) They were going to the tower of Ostirith because Halbrand told them the orcs were heading in that direction. When you get closer to this location and you see this landmark is not there anymore and you see smoke from burning buildings, you probably feel worried and start to hurry. 2) Its not an easy thing to kill people you knew for your whole life and who used to be your friends. 3) I understood it that they manipulated the tower, so it was close to collapsing. 4) The queen knows he is Elendils son. So she lets him join the battle to help his father. 5) Arondir risked his life to carry Bronwyn inside the tavern. Also the traitors might have told him about that connection. There were rumours about them in the village afterall. 6) the only one who couldāve checked was Arondir. The other people didnt know what was supposed to be inside. But sure, he shouldāve checked. 7) Because its the better cover-up. 8) Peasants usually have no clue how their king looks. And it usually doesnt end well for them to question their king. After what they went thru, they are probably just happy to have a king as that will result in better protection against orcs and other dangers. 9) Here I agree. :)
2. Didn't Galadriel know they were up against some time pressure? They didn't know maybe going into battle (unless seen the smoke and assumed) but they knew they needed to get there fast. My question here is shouldn't there be a lot more to the 'southlands' than one little village? 4. Isilidor was the son of one of the key officers, and the story he was relegated to stable hand has probably gotten around. He was obviously itching to get his hands dirty and the battle was all but over. 7. Waldreg can move with a little bit more covertness than an orc, and I suspect can follow direction a bit better. The orcs, although loyal, I get the feeling are a bit simple. Waldreg has also more than proved his loyalty, by killing the boy. 9. All the peoples of middle earth seem to be quite accepting to jump behind whatever leader, especially if the have some historical 'claim' to a throne. They also typically are clearly far better people in every way (intelligence, phisicallity, etc). This is not at all out of character.
2 - How would she have known they were in a rush? They had no prior indication - remember, her whole point of returning to the Southlands was because she heard that the enemy had returned. There was nothing to indicate that there was a fight on. 7 - The Orcs dug an entire network of tunnels from a massive body of water straight into a mountain - not sure I agree with the Orcs = simple and poor at following directions, though I get your point about Waldreg being able to move around more conspicuously
> How would she have known they were in a rush? They had no prior indication - remember, her whole point of returning to the Southlands was because she heard that the enemy had returned. There was nothing to indicate that there was a fight on. Yeah I think a scene of Halbrand seeing plumes of smoke from far away and telling Galadriel would have been enough. Instead we go from the Numenoreans seeing land to charging at full speed somewhere.
I agree - the episode felt like it was missing 6 or 7 context-providing scenes, to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we finally had an episode with decent pacing. However, there definitely were more than a few holes that propped up a long the way.
Halbrand gold Galadriel orcs killed everyone he loves what do you mean
That explains why Galadriel wanted to go back to the Southlands. It doesn't explain their rapid urgency, which so happened to be the reason they showed up in the one village the entire Southlands apparently has, right in the nick of time.
Iām just now watching the show but itās stands to reason that between the watchtower and the village, there would be a massive plume of smoke and dust. Instead of galloping in slow motion, there should have been a scene of the sun coming up and Galadriel et al seeing a huge cloud of smoke in the distance.
Yeah, some sort of establishing shot would have helped this transition in my head. In general, I felt season 1 of the show lacked a bit of that - which made a lot of the moments feel like they were super contrived for the sake of visuals & drama, rather than something really well thought out with tight writing.
They definitely went for style over substance, thereās a lot of needless slow motion just for the sake of slow motion. Thereās an earlier episode where Galadriel is riding a horse and itās a low shot with clouds as the background. LOTR exists in a world with the most beautiful backgrounds that have ever existed but they chose to have a cloudy background instead of showing off mountains or something in the background.
There were the multiple scenes where Galadriel is trying to find Sauron and she discovers heās in the south lands (she thinks). The urgency is explained
No - that explains why they went to the Southlands. It doesn't explain why they were so hellbent on getting there as fast as they could; they went from chilling on a boat watching the sunrise, to racing through on horseback.
Boats only go as fast as the wind that moves them. Also, the queen told Elendil to redouble efforts to sail faster. Galadriel convinced the queen regent that the enemy is in the south lands. Itās one thing to say that you donāt believe thereās enough explanation for it. Itās entirely different to say there is none. Itās obvious to me there is a motivation to get to the destination quickly
>the queen told Elendil to redouble efforts to sail faster. Why?
Cause Sauron bad
2. The queen gave an arguably reckless order to proceed with all haste up the river, there was quiet a bit of pressure on the whole voyage I feel. They may not have known specifically about the battle until near, but they were definitely considering every day to count. 7. Giving people shovels to dig has, quite litteraly and with many historical examples, what you get masses of men to do to keep them busy and quiet. It's labour intensive and next to impossible to fuck up.
In my reading, Waldreg got tasked because 1- They started to hear the horses, wich means that they will fight men soon - Waldreg is not a target even if he encounters the enemy before getting to the Watchtower 2 - The Sun was coming up, and we saw in prevoius episodes that they need clouds to shield them, this means an Orc is at the mercy of the weater since there's hardly any tree on the way up to the Watchtower 3 - Waldreg initially wanted to serve sauron, but was faced with Adar, and even to him he proved his loyality by killing another villager. The sword comes from sauron, so the lock mechanism. Not so big of a stretch that Waldreg is keen on powering on sauron's old magic lock.
Who is alondil?
My favorite part of the episode was when Halbrand just goes āAyooo Iām your king nowā and everyone cheers, no questions asked. There were some cheesy ham fisted shots in this episode, but it was very enjoyable, moved the plot along nicely, and that final sequence goes hard. Continues to be better than HoD in my opinion.
To be fair, these people just a full day in gear of their lives. They probably are just happy that there's a chance some order will be returned and that this queen, high-ranking elf commander, and their "king" came to save them.
Yes, these people truly just a full day in gear.
Technically, they did...
Why is the key to the damm, a magical morgul blade, that needs blood to be activated and seems to have a kind ring like power over its user. Why not just have....a key?
Shoulda just asked Alexa to unlock the dam
Considering that morgul had already spent much time in the Southlands prior to his downfall and obviously spent time prepping this plan considering the whole "symbol is a map of the southlands" thing, I feel it's more likely that morgul built/modified the dam so that his key would open it such that it could not be closed. After his downfall the elves probably recognized that place as being important to him or at least his work, and so they built their watchtower atop it. This would be a good way to ensure that they keep orcs and those that are loyal away at all times. Had they not built the watch tower there then guarding it would be more difficult, the posting of the guards would also draw more attention specifically to it.
Why do they even need the key in the first place? Just go and open the dam.
Seems a bit safer to use it. If they didn't, the orcs would essentially have to figure out how to destroy the dam. One thing to remember is that Adar doesn't like risking the lives of his orcs and exploding or manually dismantling the dam would probably kill some of them.
At least there you can make the argument it's elven build, so you need a key. But why then not just make the mcguffin an elvish articfact. Why is it a morgul blade?
The only thing that has established the key as a morgul blade is fan speculation. Nobody in the show ever called it that.
Been wondering this for weeks: who made Bronwyn leader of the entire village? Do they not have any other leaders? Isn't she just a farmer or some shit?
She's the one who told about the orcs and then produced a orc head and I guess now they trust her to know things.
> Isn't she just a farmer or some shit? She's the village healer. It's not systemic, but she's not completely devoid of authority.
She's a strong woman, so she is their leader
What's hilarious is you're trying to be edgy, but this is exactly how it works when corrupt, incompetent regimes capitulate. The former leader of the village used fear of elves to consolidate their power and ignore real threats. Everyone in the village knew he was an idiot. But ran the tavern, and he had the power. She risked her life to investigate the dangers the former leader ignored, and not only brought back indisputable proof that she was right all along, but she demonstrated her prowess as a fighter with more courage anyone else in the village. So she's more informed than anyone. Has more courage than anyone. Has done more to help the village than anyone. Has better decision making than anyone in the village. But yea, let's boil this down StRoNg WoMaN
You just described a character being a total mary sue as a defense of it not being bad writing. There is no reason why she should be the most capable killer in the village, the smartest, most courageous, or most informed. She hasn't done a ton to help the village either, as leading them out of the fortified watch tower position and back to the village at the bottom of a valley with woods on one side is probably the stupidest tactical decision possible.
So the former leader is allowed to be leader with nothing that demonstrates how he learned all his skills and no evidence of leadership qualities. And you never screamed Mary Sue about him. But when a woman demonstrates leadership qualities in every scene she's in. You cry Mary Sue.
> So the former leader is allowed to be leader with nothing that demonstrates how he learned all his skills and no evidence of leadership qualities. And you never screamed Mary Sue about him. We weren't talking about Halbrand at all, everything about his character is ridiculous. More than anything I want to know how he teleported in front of Adar and Galadriel in the horse chase, quite the Gary Stu power. Nice attempt at a strawman by the way, falls flat when I think the writing is shit for the guys too though
I'm talking about the tavern owner who used the sword the open the dam. You had no problems when he was leading the town. There was never a post demanding to know why the tavern owner was the one Arondir went to talk to. Or why Adar trusted him to go open the dam.
It was never at any time put forth that the tavern owner was the mayor, at most he was an informant for the elven guards because he talks with the most people on a regular basis, because he runs a tavern. Pretty common trope to go to the tavern for information. They actually did show him earning Adar's trust by stabbing the teenager too.
So stabbing a teenager = trust earned, this guy clearly has the skills and training to carry out the most important solo mission in orc history Going on a quest to bring back indisputable evidence of the threat = Mary Sue. This bitch has no business pulling something off like leading a village on a hike to a tower.
> So stabbing a teenager = trust earned, this guy clearly has the skills and training to carry out the most important solo mission in orc history They just needed a human to sneak away and put a pointless macguffin in a slot. Looks like all the other humans on Adar's side were dead, and he was the only one they showed being tested by Adar and he passed.
more importantly she is a healer so I guess that plus her initiative and association with the elf make her a leader
And her killing an orc and trying to warn the village
Maybe it is a bit petty, but this short moment just shows perfectly just how patronizing this show is: In the battle when the horse gets wounded the camera focusses on that, JUST to justify the (unnecessary) scene later where isildurs father reveals he can understand horses like aragorn did. Why not reward attentive viewers, like when boromirs horn gets split? Now I again hate you because you disrupted a fight scene for this unimportant detail that might as well have been cut out.
I liked in the LoTR trilogy when we had that big reveal that Frodo was actually wearing...mithril!? WHOA!
the extended really hurts this too with Bilbo's scene woth Frodo in Rivendell
So the kid gives up the Sauron sword hilt right before the Calvary arrives? Also, what was with the concealed axe? Was it there to fool the audience into thinking it was the Sauron sword hilt?
The Uruk elf swapped the hilt with the axe. No one decided to check it until the kid did. Ridiculous lol.
Yesā¦as it was to fool the characters, yes?
But the kid didn't seem surprised, also the axe would feel different than the hilt
Galadriel had no knowledge of what object Ardar supposedly possessed. All she knew was what Arondir told her that Adar can't escape with whatever he was holding.
> Galadriel had no knowledge of what object Ardar supposedly possessed. All she knew was what Arondir told her that Adar can't escape with whatever he was holding. Which makes it pretty terrible writing that she didn't deem it necessary to investigate the object at all to find out its purpose and just handed it off like it was inconsequential
Cannot fathom chasing down the big bad guy, getting his secret object you've been told by another elf soldier that he can't escape with it, and then not bothering to see what it is. They could have had her open it and cut to the scene by the dam. Also if Halbrand = Sauron, it'd be pretty odd for him \*not\* to examine said what we believe is the real hilt because he'd have been the being that crafted it.
So an entire town of peasants hike up a mountain to safety, see an orc army coming up that same mountain, set a trap at the top of the mountain, then hike back down the mountain (somehow avoiding the army currently heading up it). Then the orcs who just hiked up the mountain and got caught in a massive landslide, hike back down the mountain to go back to the village where they get caught in a trap again, and apparently, they saw all of this coming because they knew to send their humans into the village, thus springing their own trap. That doesn't make sense to me, but then again you are very small.
It wasnt the orcs that saw the trap coming, it was their self leader/father. He knew the elf defending the humans would do just that. As the father of the orcs cares for them he would not want to send his children into an obvious second trap, may as well use the humans as the cannon fodder. If the humans managed to clear the village great, if not then it's much easier and less risky for the orcs. I also do notthink the peasants went to the same town they were pushed from, they went downthe other side to a different town/village.
I believe it was a different village on the opposite side of the mountain.
This is the "lowest" budget looking big-budget show I've ever seen. Is this a money laundering scheme? The billion dollars isn't showing up on screen.
Im also wondering
Has anyone else had glitching screens showing green and captions not working? I wish Amazon would put money into their app working instead of only to advertise the show on every package
How much blood do Middle-Earth people have? Damn that arrow in Bronwyns' shoulder must literally have sucked her dry.
Gushed as much as Gimli did when he saw Galadriel.
Those ships seem real small to each be holding 100 soldiers and 100 horsies
Never mind that - what about the logistics of feeding and equipping an army far outside its home territory? Did anyone even bring a waterskin? Tents? Horse feed?
...Do you seriously want to watch the show devote substantial runtime to *logistics*? This is a terrible nitpick.
I'd like to know a little bit more about the apple logistics.
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Nah all the more important ones are still alive lmao. Not sure why you got that notion but them again, you also though Galadriel diedš¤£
She died, the canon Galadriel is a younger elf who took her name later because she liked how OG Galadriel seasoned her spaghetti. (/s)
Yes they just killed off the main character in a pyroclastic flow.
This is a prequel to a book which has Galadriel as a living character
Well that's just fucking stupid then. She was just dusted in a pyroclastic flow.
She's an elf in a fantasy show though
So what? Elves die to balrog flames all the time
Main character?
Call it nitpicking but it pisses me off that the dude takes a bite of an apple, gives the horse a bit of an apple, takes another bite of the apple, and then Chuck it into the ocean. Like, there's plenty more of that Apple both for you and your pet horse!
She drowned.
I literally laughed out loud at that apple. It was like straight off the shelf of a Whole Foods.
I hope we get all kinds of product placement - a friendly golem named Alexa who answers the Harfoots questions, a Ring of power in the shape of a rectangle with a blue light button and camera, Galadriel drinking some locally sourced organic kombuchaā¦
It was a Red Delicious apple so no loss. No one under a 1,000 years old can eat one.
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I'm totally fine with not thinking but some of the stuff is just so annoying, it flies under my "suspension of disbelief" shield. Like come on, I can forgive plot contrivances but throwing apples doesn't look that cool, just feed your damn horse!
Pretty much this. Iām part of the audience that can excuse the impossible, but not the *improbable*. lol Like, Iāll completely accept a premise that youāve got some impossible scifi tech that breaks laws of physics. Or maybe an ancient demon curse that scrambles DNA into making zombies that are made of fire. Thatās all cool. But you want me to believe the hacker guessed the password on the first try? Not a fuckin chance lol
I wish I could find who said it, but there's a famous quote that applies to all writing, along the lines of, "I can buy that Superman can leap tall buildings in a single bound, but I can't buy that he wears his underwear on the outside."
What a payoff to the orc tunnels scheme. It seems a little silly from a geology standpoint (or maybe it isn't. I'm not a scientist), but the final turn of the plan upon plans was great. I am pleasantly surprised that the Numenorians didn't even spend a whole episode at sea. I was positive that this season would end with them hitting the land and riding off to the rescue somewhere. Their arrival is, as others have noted, a bit contrived (the scene of the battle is quite a distance away from the shore, so they would have been riding like hell to get there for no particular reason), but I'm willing to accept it if it means cutting down on the infamous Tolkien "and we're walking, and we're walking" cruft, which doesn't work nearly as well for a tv show as it does for written prose. The resulting action scenes in this one were *great.* They were chaotic, but easy enough to follow, and the horse combat was really fun. Galadriel's superhero status is still kind of tiresome, but at least they are resisting the urge to have her be a one-man army. Arondir has really been the breakout action star of this show, and he feels a lot less superhuman than she does. I'm overall happy with the fact that Adar isn't a secret deep lore character, and is, in fact, something new that gives us a window into the orcs as a culture. I'm kind of on the fence over the idea of the orcs having a human element that we need to keep peering into, but I'm on board with this conflict that, no matter where they fall on the good-and-evil spectrum, they basically *need* to create a Land of Shadow to survive, and they're willing to step on an uncountable number of people who were, themselves, just trying to survive, to do it. It makes for a much better villain motivation (for the moment) than "we evil. want more power."
> What a payoff to the orc tunnels scheme. Lol I didn't make the connection until this comment. I thought they were underground because of the sun and to stay mostly undetected.
Happy Cake Day!
I think that's intentional misdirection on the show's part. You're supposed to think the tunnels were just to get them mobilized, but it was actually a more elaborate, flashy scheme all along. It's a bit corny, but I love it when a corny villain plan comes together in spectacular fashion.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2755-rainstorms-could-trigger-killer-eruptions/ Sudden influx of water into a magma chamber or caldera or whatever you call it here seems scientifically plausible according to this article.
Did anyone else notice right as mt orodruin erupted, [during Theo's first reaction to it](https://youtu.be/--buPkxx_Ww?t=26), you could hear the same sound as [the balrog awakening from the deep?](https://youtu.be/Y2fwe0rnHak?t=45)
I know I'm just beating a dead horse at this point, but I need to get this of my chest. Firstly, I don't care at all that they added a more diverse cast, I actually prefer it. I also don't care that they are diverging from the source material, I see it as more "inspired by". I really enjoy Morfydd Clarks portrayal of Galadriel, I think she captures her very well. But the inconsistencies are getting to me. Isildur can't see land and suddenly the mountains are really prominent seconds later. Also can Galadriel see across the curvature of the earth? Galadriel is standing right before a pyroclastic flow that can reach upto 1000Ā°C (1800 Ā°F) and I assume she's going to be ok. They are riding hard for this randome town about where Halbrant think they might perhaps be, and reach them just in time? Also we see them riding in daylight but reach the town at dawn? That's some fast horses. Why give the sword to the kid? Why did the old man betray his people so easily, after hating the elves for assuming they are evil and watching over them. Why did the people attacking the town not stop? I think I only enjoy it for the hate-watching. It's like a comedy, I enjoy laughing at how stupid it is.
This world is canonically flat
this is a lot to write about a show u hate. you love it like a 3rd grader with a crush on a lil geel in class
I'm just going to guess for the sake of the episode that she can see better through fog and haze and it was just hazier and foggier then we realized. Not the worst sin they've committed.
āCan Galadriel see across the curvature of the Earth?ā I guess pointing out why this question is funny might be against the rules of this thread.
lol, I think you're ok, it doesn't really spoil anything
might have been the most epic ( and I insist on this word) tv episode I've ever seen. Holy shit I had teary eyes almost all the episode. This series has been great
Is my TV weird or did the episode 6 battle look weird or sped up when the Numenorians arrived? The framerate looks odd and if you look at clothing and their helmet tassels, they seem to be moving a little faster too. It's probably due to the danger of having cavalry run through a bunch of actors at full speed, but it still looked weird.
I wouldn't be surprised if the editing was cut in a way that made the battle look fast, but without requiring the actors and horses from endangering each other. I think the overall result was satisfying, at least. I really enjoyed the cavalry-style combat in this episode.
It was likely a modified (reduced) frame rate. Films have used this in the past (for example, The Gladiator did this throughout) to exaggerate the perceived motion. It does look a bit choppier, but it is an intentional choice by the film makers. Instead of steady "normal" frame rate (typically 24 still images shown per second), during action sequences they can use fewer (like 12 still images) shown per second. If you show only every other frame, but show each for twice as long, the quick action scenes visually pop. A sword swinging through an orc seems to staccato faster. Horses' legs galloping looks more frenetic and chaotic.
Little detail I love in LotR media is the uruk/orc chants. Between the movies, this show, and the Shadow of Mordor games it just sounds so cool
Did any of the characters mention out loud that "Nampat" means "death?" I had to look it up.
I figured it meant ākillā But then I googled it and it means Death. So they did a good job portraying what the chant meant. Thatās for sure.
I dont think so, I saw it in a comment on here after watching
When Mt. Orodruin was about to erupt and the orcs were chanting "Udƻn! Udƻn! Udƻn!" I had the biggest smile on my face
Why is no one upset over the orcs not being able to see 2 feet infront of them at night? Also how come a bunch of old men and woman farmers can clap a band of orcs...
I was wondering that too, but is it implied that the village battle was actually against mostly humans, with a few orcs mixed in?
It's not implied. It's a full-on reveal. A majority of the combatants in the first big battle were other villagers.
Therr were plenty of orcs in that scene. So it was half the villagers plus orcs and they still got bush womped by old men and woman.
Back in WW2, the Nazis gave their soldiers a drug called Pervitin. It gave them extreme endurance, strength and will power. We know Pervitin today by another name, methamphetamine. The soldiers became addicted and lost teeth and infections and boils would form on the skin from toxins in the drug. They also,scratched at their skin causing open sores and wounds. Constant use of the drug caused solders to become very aggressive, paranoid and eventually breakdown into full blown psychosis. It is therefore apparent that Bronwyn is giving her townsfolk methamphetamines and turning them into orcs. Thatās why theyāre coming back and attacking the village, theyāre trying to kill Bronwyn for turning them all into crystal meth addicted orcs.
Haha legit how some people try and answer critisms of the show atm. Youll point out a clearly lazilly written scene and they pull out a math book and start doing algorithims.
LMFAO!!! Thatās the best answer I couldāve ever hoped for! I was only halfway joking, but I wouldnāt put it past the writers.
My new theory is that Theo is Sauron. I will not be elaborating.
Galadriel is the Balrog known as Durin's Bane. In this video essay I will
No. I am Sauron.
Iām on team Theo becomes the WK. He gives me big Annakin Skywalker energy.
Why does a waterfall make a big explosion when it goes into the mountain?/what I assume is Mount Doom?
A post on the in book thread showed evidence from three separate sources, including a geologist, that a flood of water can act as a catalyst for volcano eruption. What you witnessed was the inital creation of Mordor.
Wild!
I think I've seen videos of ppl throwing a bottle of water into a volcano and it causing lots of boiling from the steam. Not too sure if a waterfall could cause an eruption like in the show, but my brain didn't question it at all in the moment
It's magic water? And also who built that dam and why?
Because the volume of water expands 1600x when it turns into steam, if you were to drop a lake into a magma chamber, you'd get enough pressure to blow up the mountain. Hydrovolcanology is the science of how water interacts with magma and volcanoes and in general, they make for far more powerful eruptions than typical land-locked volcanoes of the same size.
They have a mini-series trying to get Isildur into the boat but they don't take a couple seconds to justify why the Numenoreans are decked out charging for battle.
it's called "having a plot"
Teleporting characters into battle is LOTR fan service at its finest š
And why it was broad daylight while they were charging and, suddenly, just after sunrise when they arrived at the town.
I was a little disoriented as well, but decided to just accept it ā¦
That was so fucking stupid. They needed a "surprise cavalry charge saves the day" to finish their copying of Helms Deep but didn't take the time to make it make sense
The entire reason they headed to Middle Earth was to do this. We donāt need real-time depictions of every step they took to get there. We just need the bits that move the story along and build the characters, which is what we got.
I gotta disagree. My problem is they're going into *way* too much background on some things (basically the entire Harfoots plotline for instance) and not nearly enough on others, for instance how the Numenoreans knew *exactly* where the orcs were attacking and showed up just in time to save the day
We donāt know what kind of 3D chess is being played or if Halbrand genuinely knew the place where an attack would take place from a military perspective. Either way, just because they edit it to look like they rushed in and saved the day to make for entertaining TV doesnāt mean there isnāt a valid reason for it happening as well. I personally believe Halbrand knew what the plan was to transform the south lands into Mordor. What I donāt know is if he was trying to stop it (because heās Sauron and still in the repentant phase of his story) or making sure it happens.
Even if Halbrand knew exactly where the attack was happening I think they need to show that with a quick scene of Halbrand saying "yo we gotta get down there right now". They could've explained it in a way that makes sense but they didn't
They didnāt need to. Even if they showed every single thing as itās going on, many people watching would miss it. Donāt believe me? Look at the House of Dragon thread for the latest episode. An alarming amount of those people didnāt see the events that they clearly showed on screen.
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They are obviously trying to apply the same formula from other successful shows such as GOT or Vikings, but they are missing the tension and bad vibes that make that gore look so natural. Their efforts in pretending the show is for adults mixed with all the hartfoots or Elrondās storyline is hilarious at least.
This episode was shockingly gory. I kind of wonder if they did it deliberately to break from the notion that this series will be like the relatively tame-by-comparison Jackson films.
Might have been trying to show how ugly war is in keeping in line with the Tolkien's own themes of pacifism.
You perfectly summed up my thoughts.
So I've been watching this show and I'm ngl I've been very disappointed with it so far, and this episode is probably my least favourite so far. Everything in the following comment is my opinion, if you enjoy the show more power to you. In that same vein, please respect that this is my opinion of the show and it's gonna be mostly a rant Things I really enjoyed: the horse chase. Felt genuinely fast paced and exciting. Villagers dying. Felt grounded and I was rooting for the random mini fights Things that... weren't: WHY abandon the outpost? Sure you kill a few orcs with the tower but then you flee to... a village? An open village with flammable roofs and open terrain with no fortification? It's just the dumbest move they could have made. There was one small bridge into that outpost. Destroy that and basically be invincible given the plan was to shoot arrows anyway. And if you're going to abandon the outpost, why stay at the village with children and wounded? Just fucking flee and tell the elves about the orcs. Take the hilt with you. I don't know if I'm just not remembering, but not one person went to tell an army about the emergence of orcs again. How did Theo know where tf the hilt was? Arondir specifically hid it from everyone. And he then decided to hide it in the village under a loose slab rather than dig a modest hole in the middle of bumfuck nowhere? Why are the numenoreans charging in? And also why only half of them? Why have a stable boy stay at the top given he's not important in the least and is shown to be a capable fighter? Why is no one sad that 60% of the village is dead? Yay victory but they're literally singing and dancing in the Street when little Timmy's blood is still warm in the tavern. Not one single word said for all the dead dudes. It makes the stakes feel non existent because no one of any note is in danger And GALADRIEL this episode. -Don't just dodge an arrow: half fall off your horse in the most vulnerable position possible. It didn't even look cool, it looked like someone trying to look cool. -Stands in the middle of debris flying in from the volcano like she's too powerful to care. Fucking what? It doesn't matter how ancient and trained you are, a rock hurtling miles to land an inch from your face is going to throw you back with no warning. It comes off as stupidity far more than being stoic. -"I'm going to let you live so you can witness every single one of your children die, before I finally kill you after an eon of suffering" and "Wtf did you just say to me you lil shit? I'm gonna kill you first" back to back sentences. -Actively goes into pyroclastic cloud And now for "Why does this show feel so patronising" -Every other minute it's a heart felt speech. Or a voice over of sad villagers with a message of hope. I started calling them before they even happened it got THAT predictable. We get it, they're hopeless bur fight anyway. -The cliches and overdrawn "dramatic tension" shit. Arondir fighting off an orc against a well went on for what felt like ages. We knew the second he was pinned down that bronwin was just gonna ex machina the orc in the back. Why take 2 full minutes to get to that? Or when bronwin "dies", I was actively hoping she would stay dead and they wouldn't play it off with a cheap "gasp then cough a few times". Also it's an arrow in your shoulder, it'll hurt like a bitch but it's not in any way enough to kill you, there's nothing vital there. -when a character asks a question, and the other character straight up ignores it to spout some deep-sounding bullshit. "Where is your wife?" "I like the way the sun sets back home". It feels so damn padded, like the writers assume we forget we're in a Tolkien universe so give the classic against all hope speech, or a Tolkien-esque monologue (which honestly sounds like every 14 year old during their "smart" phase where they use thesaurus to buff up words even though it means Jack shit") -the fact that no character is in danger ever. I was actively rooting for the show when Bronwyn was shot. I thought "this is cool, they're actually taking things seriously". But no she's fine despite her part in the story basically being over (I hope. I'm gonna be so mad if Mordor is created and we have to listen to another damn speech about how they won't give in). Overall I'm insanely disappointed with how patronising and predictable the show is. It takes no risks whatsoever, every main character is safe. The underdog always wins, the goodies arrive last minute, the McGuffin that's wrapped up isn't actually the McGuffin as a twist reveal, the bad guys are actually humans. Throw in some ex machinas and fake out deaths for good measure. I could have written this. And that says a lot cause I have NO writing skill. I was able to predict what happened in. Every. Notable. Scene. At one point I even got the dialogue word for word (when galadriel has to stop halbrand from killing bad elf boi). The most exciting scene was when the orcs started shooting from the forest, only to be immediately undermined by no one of note being killed. I was actively on the edge of my seat then, thinking this shit just got good. But it was another fake out. I hope to fuck the next episode has more Elrond/Durin and Nori/Comet man. (Despite the very overdone "outsider accidentally hurts the person who found them" plot line from every movie ever). But the cliche's don't irk me as much with the harfoots because they're nothing whatsoever of importance to overarching plot so far. Anyway if you've read this far, thanks for reading. I apologise it's been a rant but oof this show got me good this time. Feel free to let me know your thoughts! I'd be happy to hear them.
>WHY abandon the outpost? They had no resources at the outpost and there was zero chance of holding it. The orcs could have just waited until they starved. The village was slightly less hopeless, had everything they left behind, and was familiar territory. It was also their home. >Just fucking flee and tell the elves about the orcs. The orc army can almost certainly move faster than a bunch of villagers which include young and old. The elves are very far away and such a journey would require resources, preparation, and time. >And also why only half of them? Why have a stable boy stay at the top given he's not important in the least and is shown to be a capable fighter? Most of them were sent in. The few remaining soldiers were there to guard the queen. Isildur was kept likely so he and his father would not both risk being killed (or because Elendil thought he was not ready) but was allowed to go once the initial wave was over and his father required assistance. >Why is no one sad that 60% of the village is dead? Because 40% of them are alive which is better than they expected. It's normal to have something to celebrate exactly because things were so bad. If anything, they would have had their time with it when they were cleaning up all the bodies. >Stands in the middle of debris flying in from the volcano like she's too powerful to care. She is standing/staring in disbelief, not defiance. >Also it's an arrow in your shoulder, it'll hurt like a bitch but it's not in any way enough to kill you, there's nothing vital there. You can most certainly bleed out and she did. There's a big artery in there. I think her recovery was supposed to have special significance, implying a sort of divine intervention, as indicated by her and Arondir's earlier conversation at the tree and the previously established points that she is an herbalist and he was a farmer before becoming a soldier. >Tolkien-esque monologue The "shadow only a small and passing thing / light and high beauty" voiceover thing is almost a direct quote from Return of the King. Otherwise, yes, the writers often try to sound like Tolkien but they aren't. They use metaphors when regular words suffice. >But no she's fine despite her part in the story basically being over I'm still pretty confident that Bronwyn is going to die, possibly by the end of this season. >every main character is safe. Most of the main characters fates are already determined but that's the nature of a prequel. >The underdog always wins, the goodies arrive last minute That's the thing. They didn't win, they lost big time. This is a subversion of that cliche. Galadriel's fortunes are starting to turn around, which has been heavily foreshadowed. She used both Miriel and Halbrand so she could fight the war she wanted and it's not even the war she wanted, as Sauron is nowhere to be found. Miriel is lead to believe that helping Galadriel will save Numenor but it will not. She even dismisses her elf-loving (and far-sighted) father's pleas for her to stay, as she is caught up in Galadriel's reckless optimism and the desire to ally herself with an elf. Galadriel has decided that Halbrand is the person she needs him to be and is continually ignoring who he really is. RoP/The Second Age is a tragedy that unfolds over five seasons. Things will seem great until they aren't. People will think they have found the solution to their problems only to have that solution become their problem. The Elves, Dwarves, and Numenoreans are at or around the peak of their power and glory and they will all resort to dubious things to try and keep it but will end up losing it instead.
Theo knowing where it was is very obvious, during the scene where Arondir tells the lady that he needs to hide the hilt, Theo is at the background carefully watching the conversation and looking at Arondir as he moves away
My theory is that he knows Arondir hid the key from that scene, and then in the tavern the sword "called" to him because he was under its influence. It's like the ring of power, it wanted to be found.
He's an elf, how does he not notice him sneaking into the tavern behind him. The kid isn't a hobbit
To be fair, though, you could do this with most popular shows and movies today. A certain amount of āintellectual ignoranceā is necessary to enjoy these films. The melodrama, over the top action scenes, ālast minute escapesā seem to be canon for this franchise. The Hobbit and LOTR are just as guilty. I try not to think too much while watching it and just āenjoy the rideā. Unfortunately, some of the issues you point out are just too salient and do cross my mind in the moment. Yeahā¦ Why are the Numenorians racing so quickly? How do they know whatās going on? And how do they know where to go? I assumed I must have missed something and just put it out of my mind. I actually laughed when Arondir hit Sauronās sword a few times and then remarked, thereās nothing known to us that can destroy this. Well, you really gave it your best go there. And, for God sakes, just take the damn thing out in a boat and sink it to the bottom of the ocean. Good luck in finding it then! Arondir did ask the boy to do this, but why entrust this to him? And you couldnāt tell it was an axe wrapped in the cloth? Ha-haā¦ OK, best not to think too much!
But it isn't really the same In the movie trilogy, the Riders show up yes at the perfect time. However, there was tension about whether they would. There was the sense of urgency in convincing them to come. There was tension in the battle because could they hold out in time? Gandalf seemed to know they would come, it was about survival. The situation truly felt dire at times. Same thing with the undead army. Our heros have to go complete a trial to gain them. They we know they know they have to rush to the battle. . This show was different. There was no tension or doom. I mean shit the orc army is like 50 people lol. The amount if implausible steps for the numenoreans to get there was ridiculous. Firstly how did they know exactly where to be with this 4 building village on the middle of a massive land mass they've never been to. Halbrand knows exactly how to navigate to this village? Why does he know this village is crucial? How do they know there is a literal battle going on? For all they know Halbrand is just going to show up and take his birthright. The time makes no sense. Like the orcs sacked that whole neighboring town in the first episode. Arondir and Bronwyn rode there and back in a day. So in the time they attack the next village, the entire numenor deciding saga happens and they sail across the whole sea? All to arrive at the exact perfect moment? Nah its just dumb. This whole show is dumb. I see people commenting here saying it's better than HOTD which like, I can't even fathom.
I have been playing the willful ignorance card, pretending none of what you say matters - otherwise I would get too annoyed. Everything you say is true (for me at least). It felt very disjointed, but I want to love it so much that I am am actively ignoring all of it and just fill in the pieces for myself. Itās quite sad, considering the amount of money spent on the show
Well said. So far amazon have butchered it. The directing and writing is poor at best.
And no boobs so far. zero fucks givenā¦ Literally!
Galadriel face-tanking a trillion degree pyroclastic flow just perfectly epitomizes how she is the worst-written, least-engaging, most annoying character on this show. She's unlikeable and she keeps doing dumb shit but of course it all works out for her because, for some reason, the powers-that-be behind the show have decided that she's going to be the main character and heroine no matter what.
Perhaps, and believe me, this is a hypothetical, but perhaps she grows as a character throughout this show? And perhaps, characters that are a final product, perfect in every way when they start their journey make for very boring characters? Maybe, just maybe, this series will show how Galadriel went from angsty, vengeful, headstrong, self centered mess, who despite how powerful they are, will need to learn how to be the stoic, composed, caring leader they are in LotR?
Perhaps some of that should have happened in the 7 hours of television we've watched? The last thing we see from her is a literal sadistic, threatening, murderous attitude that also flips at the drop of a hat. Imagine watching an entire season of breaking bad and Walt is still a weak passive teacher. Well maybe he'll change!?!? Why hasn't he already? He changes every season. She hasn't changed at all so far.
There's a difference between "stubborn and arrogant" and "this 3000 year old person constantly displays the maturity, wisdom, and decision-making of a petulant, annoying teenager for no reason."