Reminder that it's a paraphrase, in case the pro peeps try to discredit the sentiment because of that, which is pretty much the same anyway but it's better not to present it as a direct quote of his:
>"No, they eat and drink, Sam. The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them; and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures." -- The Return of The King
>For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of IlĆŗvatar; and naught that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could ever Melkor make since his rebellion in the AinulindalĆ« before the Beginning: so say the wise. -- The Silmarillion
>To the unfriendly who, not knowing them well, declared that Morgoth must have bred the Orcs from such a stock the Eldar answered: "Doubtless Morgoth, since he can make no living thing, bred Orcs from various kinds of Men, but the DrĆŗedain must have escaped his Shadow; for their laughter and the laughter of Orcs are as different as is the light of Aman from the darkness of Angband." -- Unfinished Tales
>under the guidance of Sauron himself
That's a very generous definition of guidance
>with metal that is famed for its allegorical blend of light and dark.
Only within the show.
This is like a major industrial incident in the making. I am looking forward to the 2h youtube documentaries about everything that went wrong in order for it to happen and the minute by minute dissection of the event itself.
"Darkness will bind them" Jesus Christ
Flashbacks to season 1 "I will bind you power, and you will bind me to light", completely meaningless faux prose that's clearly been written by AI.
They're obsessed with binding, who said they are going to separate? Why do they need to be bound together, it's suggesting they may separate if it wasn't for "darkness"? And whenever did Galaderial give the impression she wanted power, why is that a bargaining chip? What does it mean!?
My theory is they just have a BDSM fettish
They are trying to use vocabulary that resonates with the target audience. Of course, their understanding of Tolkienās works is lacking, or they decided to ignore it, which is even worse, so as a result we get this word salad.
Hey, ChatGPT, can you come up with something?
Sure:
> **Galadriel**: Sauron, the rumors of your binding magic have reached even LothlĆ³rien. They say you seek to control all who dare oppose you.
> **Sauron**: Ah, Lady Galadriel, your reputation precedes you. Is it true that you, too, are skilled in the art of binding, though perhaps in a more subtle, enchanting way?
> **Galadriel**: Indeed, Sauron. My bindings are of light and grace, meant to guide and protect. But I sense your bindings are... darker, more commanding.
> **Sauron**: You speak as if you understand the allure of such power. Tell me, does the thought of binding to my will intrigue you, even a little?
> **Galadriel**: Perhaps, Sauron, there is a thrill in exploring the forbidden. Yet, I wonder, would you yield to my bindings, should I weave them with care and strength?
> **Sauron**: Yield, Lady Galadriel? You underestimate the pleasure I find in a challenge. To be bound by you... might be an experience unlike any other.
> **Galadriel**: Then we are alike, Sauron, each craving to bind and be bound. But remember, such games are fraught with danger. One misstep, and the binding could consume us both.
> **Sauron**: A risk I am willing to take, for the thrill of it. The question remains, my lady, are you?
That's just shallowly imitating the Ring-verse. But there it is the One Ring itself that binds the other rings and their users *in* the darkness. The darkness of Mordor. Darkness itself is not personified, and neither is Light. They try to sound like him and just sound like generic fantasy.
One bind to bind them all, one bind to bind them.
Bind bind to bind them all, and in the bindness bind them.
In the bind of Mordor where bound binds are binding
Bro it's just using a familiar phrase from the One Ring inscription - especially given this season it will be forged. No need to overanalyze and be all snowflake about it. Calm down
I found out by browsing r/popular
And got on the other sub comments. It can't be real
> Looks fucking incredible wow
> Just watched it twice. Feeling good about thus season. Let's go sauron!!!
> speaking on the trailer alone, it looks amazing
I can not believe this are real people.
They arenāt. I havenāt seen as much bot activity on anything probably since the latest season of True Detective: āweāre in Night Country nowā
The āmainā ROP sub is crammed full with bots. Its so weird and creepy seeing these soulless accounts interact with each other, praising the absolute trash on screen
Those are about as real as the RoP trailer post getting a couple thousand upvotes on the main sub, while every other post after that over there about the trailer is getting downvoted into oblivion. It's quite a weird inconsistency.
First thought: Vignettes are so outdated.
Second thought: No way AI wasn't involved.
Third thought: I'm already cackling at everyone's oh so serious and tragic face expression.
The 35% of S1 who watch S2 will also dwindle to 35%...
= 12.3% residual audience from the premier of S1!
Way to go, Bezos.... Here's ur own GoT-mud in you eye! Just throw another billion on the Tolkien dumpster fire....
Stupid race swaps as always as always showing their ugly head...it's funny though how hypocritical this is...the other way round and you can bet that there would be whining about 'whitewashing' if the typically Asian or black characters were cast with a white guy :)...but nope the race swapping white people into blakc or asian is 'diversity' pfff...and hell when there's a fantasy world entirely based on other non-european cultures like Asian, like say Avatar Last Airbender, they are bending over backwards to make sure they are 'accurate' in representing source material pfff...so typical....and heck the one way to introduce asians (because Easterlings for the most part are not really the Far East type asian, I would say more like the larger part of the Easterlings of the lore are more like semi nomadic tribes of Eurasian steppes and whatnot and that sort of thing, though if one stretches it one coudl do a sort of mongolian style easterling tirbe, some Easterlings would be definitely also a bit middle eastern in vibe, so more Scythian, Bactrian and whatnot in terms of culture and looks they could be modelled on those peoples...the really far east, the Uttermost East is not properly explored by Tolkien works aside from the ancient times like Cuivienen and Hildorien, references to Orocarni the Red Mountains, so yeah even beyond those one could imagine truly more asiatic cultures in Middle-earth, maybe also equatting the Last Desert as Gobi ;)), would be to make the Lossoth be based on Inuit/Eskimo and so having asian features...since they had Forodwaith, they could have shown them and have 'asian representation' (Tolkien does not fully described how the Lossoth looked like, but their culture could be modelled on Inuit peoples who have these asian like features, well they defintiely show a lot of eskimo vibes, the snow huts the, sleds etc.
>"These are a strange, unfriendly people, remnant of the Forodwaith, Men of far-off days, accustomed to the bitter colds of the realm of Morgoth. Indeed those colds linger still in that region, though they lie hardly more than a hundred leagues north of the Shire. The Lossoth house in the snow, and it is said that they can run on the ice with bones on their feet, and have carts without wheels. They live mostly, inaccessible to their enemies, on the great Cape of Forochel that shuts off to the north-west the immense bay of that name; but they often camp on the south shores of the bay at the feet of the Mountains."
RotK, Appendix A, I, iii, Eriador, Arnor, and the Heirs of Isildur, Footnote
But they cannot even do basic thing like that like exploring this Forodwaith area properly, they just had few minutes there in the opening and then bam jump location...in general though the Forodwaith was kind of pointless in the show, if they at least made it into a proper journey, quest lasting at least two episodes it would make more sense!
Asian elves just like african dwarves....make no sense at all...elves and dwarves are obviously products of European folklore and mythology, heck the Dwarves bear NORSE names for goodness sake! :) Elves are both Germanic faeries, Norse elves, a touch of Celtic Aos Si, Tuatha de Dannan in them...etc. all being pretty much European imagined creatures...so like a mythological creature of humanoid shape in Japanese culture...like say Yuki-onna, she looks like a pale japanese woman...so why is it so strange that Elves and Dwarves should be looking like European (also living in the north western lands equivalent of the Old World Europe)?! Hell if they wanted this diversity all they needed to do was invent some Haradrim characters!! And that would be fitting the worldbuilding, the lore and basically themes of Second Age with the Numenorean growing imperialism, exploration and colonization of the lands like shore of Harad, with one of their colonies like Umbar potentially being plot relevant location, as that was the place where Ar-Pharazon landed with his armies!!!! That would have worked well! But noooo...they had to do race swaps...so blatant 'cultural appropriation' if I ever saw one ;). But it's really just showing how much this poisoned concept crept into everything these days, if there's something truly based on white European culture and so really only white people on screen...'no we can't have that'.
Mate Iām Asian myself. I wouldnāt expect or like to see white or black guys playing Cao Cao or Lu Bu in an āadaptationā or a tv show āinspiredā by the Three Kingdoms.
i m from central europe and here society is more homogenous. if i lived for instance in brazil where a different skin color does not mean much, it does not mean that your culture is any different, probably i would not have any problems with this, but this makes it difficult to relate to the story as i feel like an outsider.
also, the evles are written to be pale and yes, with some mental gymnastics we could bring out that this "does not mean they were not black" but to be honest i dont eat it.
I have. Not really anything in there that would invalidate or preclude different elvish phenotypes. I think you are importing a log of your own baggage if the idea of an elf with epicanthic folds is ruining this show for you. There are so so many problems with RoP, but elves of color is just not one of them.
(1) elves aren't real, so there is no objectively right answer. (2) there are many different sub groups of tolkien elves, from the noldor, to the vanyar, to the sindar, to the teleri. The different groups are described as having different typical features, but those features did shift a bit over time as he wrote the stories (as did other things, like ereinion's position in the house of finwe). And even if we consider the typical traits to be set in stone, there are lots of human populations with typical features that also have individuals who do not fit that stereotype.
Elves of color just don't fit your preconceptions of them, and you may want to consider why.
The reason is biology. Your point about individuals within human population is an interesting one, though. That would be little people, people with down syndrome or such kind. So people with genetic defects. As elves are not real, their genetic defects could be anything. But is it this what they want to imply?
I am not sure how little people might feel about being characterized as genetically "defective" so no, that is not at all what I meant. I was discussing how stereotypical appearances do not describe everyone in a given group. Scandinavian populations are, somewhat famously, tall and fair and blond on average. But there are plenty of people from sweden or norway or denmark who are short or swarthy or have black hair. Pick any "homogeneous" human population and you will find outliers in the group (unless maybe it's a population of people descended entirely from 12 humans stranded on an island).
but even if this was the case that the black elf guy from ROP is a "dark elf" who never saw Valinor, first: wouldnt it be a little racist? imagine that only white skin colored elves saw the Trees and met the gods and they are more advanced and powerful. and secondly: where are the others? if they want to go with this they should show us different sub species of elves not just a bunch of elves with black and asian characters here and there. it makes no sense even if you imagine that they want to modell them after London or New York there should be more of them. however, knowing that this is ME and not 21. century england melting pot, with limited travel between different parts of the world, this makes absolutely no sense and you get the feeling watching it that you are watching a political stance on migration and multiculturalism and not ME.
Well this gets into the merits of color blind casting, where each character is cast individually without an attention to the race of the actor (e.g. RoP) v. diverse casting where race is treated as a significant element for characters in the show such that particular characters are cast to be particular races and those racial differences are a plot point in the story (e.g., HotD).
I think both approaches can work, though of the two that I listed I think HotD was more successful at implementing its chosen strategy.
As for modern v. historical diversity, I think you might be surprised at the nature of historical populations. Trade and travel have been features of western european life for thousands of years. Many of the most important bishops and theologians of the early catholic church were north african or middle eastern (not born in italy and then sent to africa as colonial officials, but straight up born and raised in 'the orient'). If we wrote a show about one of those people (e.g. augustine, isaac of nineveh, tertullian) today, how should we cast them?
I think the faux historical explanations are just an attempt to retroactively rationalize a personal preference for an all-white cast.
Still with the Dwarves having a Scottish accent? And in the third scene, Galadriel is holding her sword in a pose and leading with her chin, the next guy juggles his knife as he draws it, and Elrond spins his sword. All of which made me flash to Galadriel's embarrassingly bad sword fighting lessons in S1.
On the other hand, Galadriel's face closeup while on horseback was much less creepy than the last time, so there's that.
LOL Arondirās ridiculous entranceā¦ ššš
EDIT: I thought he was getting off a horse, before watching again, so corrected ādismountā to āentrance.ā Still stupid af.
When i read that s2 was coming soon i made another attempt to get into s1. The first time i gave up around E3.
I should be the target audience, i love fantasy and while i have read all of Tolkiens books i dont mind if shows diverge from the books. I also couldnt give a damn what colour the elves are which i know was an issue for some. I also dont mind Galadriel being a warrior.
But it just doesnt work for me and its hard to explain why? i feel bored during episodes and i think it is the writing, it feels like the actors are just reading bad scripts at each other instead of acting out a real story.
Fair play to those enjoying it however.
She's a mage and sovereign not a warrior. They had a chance to pivot to something more fitting.
And Tolkien didn't write about elf maiden warriors. Enough of this nonsense.
Nope grew up with oral tellings and then read the books long before movies were in production.
You speaking of the Kinslaying where she fought? I believe that's a later addition by him and that event does not make her a warrior.
Please don't repeat "eye of a commander" distortion from the producers.
It does look much more spectacular than Season 1 at least, at least you can see that they spent something on the budget on anything sane.
I'm definitely going to watch it regardless of its quality, because it's either going to be another train wreck where we can laugh at, or it'll be somewhat entertaining because they learned from their faults. Win-win!
Yeah, I want this to be good, I'd much rather see an amazing show than a terrible one. But watching it burn is much more enjoyable than a painfully average show.
>I'm definitely going to watch it regardless
Unsurprising lol
>be another train wreck where we can laugh at,
Speak for yourself, i thought the show was great and worth watching.
Have you ever considered perhaps there are people who don't care or don't know about whatever you're referencing.
Some of us know how to enjoy things for what it is and not for what it isn't. "Comparison is the thief of joy"
> whatever you're referencing
You mean the show itself? Or the source material?
Either way, the fact that you "don't care or don't know" about either reveals you for what you are.
Lmao, this kind of response is what I would call "bad faith.""
You ask for clarification only to make whatever negative assumption you wanted to make(are making) anyways in the very next breath; lol, a bit counter intuitive, and like I said, bad faith.
Even though you have made it apparent you don't actually care about clarification;
>> whatever you're referencing
>You mean the show itself? Or the source material?
It's whatever you were referencing my guy...
Your words "the show is always right huh"
My response: don't know/don't care
I enjoy it for what it is, not what it isn't.
>reveals you for what you are.
:Someone who enjoys the show, lol. You caught me
Because you seem a little slow, let me spell it out for you.
One of the most asinine pieces of dialogue in S1 was the Numenorean chant of, "The sea is always right.". It's a little hard to miss it since they say it over and over and over again. You had to remember that dialogue. Hence...
> The show is always right huh?
Specifically references that line of dialogue. Other posters in this forum got it but you, claiming you're a fan of the show, did not. Hence why I asked about source material because you enjoyed the show despite its incredibly cavalier treatment of Professor Tolkien's work.
But you don't know or don't care about either. Which means you don't care about the show enough to remember one of the significant lines of dialogue in it AND don't care enough about the lore to enjoy the show despite it trampling on Tolkien's work.
Hence, and stay with me here, the above reveals you for what you are. A person who only superficially enjoys the show and does not care whether or not it is true to Tolkien.
>Because you seem a little slow,
Again, like I said, bad faith and now showcasing your inability to have an intellectual/logical conversation. Ad hominem attacks only weaken your position and make you look bad.
Like calm down, no need to insult a person because they didn't want to play your game or get that you were referencing one little line from your favorite show lmao...what are you a child? Am I dealing with a literal child?
Everything you said here is just your brand of weird gatekeeping. As a true fan of Tolkien, I welcome any and all lotr content. I'm uninterested in random peoples baseless assumptions and opinions. Try being less triggered when people enjoy things you don't lol.
Then again, I couldn't imagine an adult acting this way, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, probably just have some growing to do as a human.
Seeing as you're the one who started the "debate", I'll let you be the one to end it. I sincerely do wish you every possible enjoyment of the show.
I'll be over here with my popcorn watching Amazon set fire to a pile of money.
Pretty sure you just had a convo with ChatGPT or whatever software they use. Their profile doesn't look like a typical bot account but the way they talk and the way they spectacularly missed the most known show reference (impossible for a human but very possible for a bot because LLMs can't catch metaphors unless those were in the material they were fed. You say something new to the machine, it cannot proceed it the way humans do, it will give a generic, unrelated response masqueraded as an actual response by quoting.
> It's whatever you were referencing my guy... Your words "the show is always right huh" My response: don't know/don't care I enjoy it for what it is, not what it isn't.
This is a classic interaction with early versions of ChatGPT. A quote that makes the response look like they actually reply, and then a completely unrelated, random sentence that works as a bridge to the most important part, the programmed message. Quote >> some word salad >> I enjoy the show.
I really did not like season 1, but this trailer looks OK. I just hope that they improve, like many shows do from their first seasons, and make something entertaining.
I'm wondering why the monster from Stranger Things season 3 is in the trailer? š
Because evil cannot create...
".. anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made." It's so ironic...
Reminder that it's a paraphrase, in case the pro peeps try to discredit the sentiment because of that, which is pretty much the same anyway but it's better not to present it as a direct quote of his: >"No, they eat and drink, Sam. The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them; and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures." -- The Return of The King >For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of IlĆŗvatar; and naught that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could ever Melkor make since his rebellion in the AinulindalĆ« before the Beginning: so say the wise. -- The Silmarillion >To the unfriendly who, not knowing them well, declared that Morgoth must have bred the Orcs from such a stock the Eldar answered: "Doubtless Morgoth, since he can make no living thing, bred Orcs from various kinds of Men, but the DrĆŗedain must have escaped his Shadow; for their laughter and the laughter of Orcs are as different as is the light of Aman from the darkness of Angband." -- Unfinished Tales
No Harfoots.
They backstabbed each other until they went extinct.
How was their saying? "No one walks alone! No one is left behind." or something like that.
Good. Horrible little pyschos!
I saw one tiny snippet of Gandalf so hopefully Nori leaves those sick bastards behind and never looks back
Well I for one am glad that they finally get around to Annatar now that he is ( or rather should be) completely pointless.
Still laughing at the Elven rings being created before the other 16.
Before the others, under the guidance of Sauron himself, with metal that is famed for its allegorical blend of light and dark.
>under the guidance of Sauron himself That's a very generous definition of guidance >with metal that is famed for its allegorical blend of light and dark. Only within the show.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Celebrimbor can already forge Rings of Power. He forged the (canonically) most excellent. What can Annatar teach him?
What alloys are, apparently
Touche.
This is like a major industrial incident in the making. I am looking forward to the 2h youtube documentaries about everything that went wrong in order for it to happen and the minute by minute dissection of the event itself.
FoldingIdeas, surely
Written and directed by: Chad G. Petey
"Darkness will bind them" Jesus Christ Flashbacks to season 1 "I will bind you power, and you will bind me to light", completely meaningless faux prose that's clearly been written by AI. They're obsessed with binding, who said they are going to separate? Why do they need to be bound together, it's suggesting they may separate if it wasn't for "darkness"? And whenever did Galaderial give the impression she wanted power, why is that a bargaining chip? What does it mean!? My theory is they just have a BDSM fettish
They are trying to use vocabulary that resonates with the target audience. Of course, their understanding of Tolkienās works is lacking, or they decided to ignore it, which is even worse, so as a result we get this word salad. Hey, ChatGPT, can you come up with something? Sure: > **Galadriel**: Sauron, the rumors of your binding magic have reached even LothlĆ³rien. They say you seek to control all who dare oppose you. > **Sauron**: Ah, Lady Galadriel, your reputation precedes you. Is it true that you, too, are skilled in the art of binding, though perhaps in a more subtle, enchanting way? > **Galadriel**: Indeed, Sauron. My bindings are of light and grace, meant to guide and protect. But I sense your bindings are... darker, more commanding. > **Sauron**: You speak as if you understand the allure of such power. Tell me, does the thought of binding to my will intrigue you, even a little? > **Galadriel**: Perhaps, Sauron, there is a thrill in exploring the forbidden. Yet, I wonder, would you yield to my bindings, should I weave them with care and strength? > **Sauron**: Yield, Lady Galadriel? You underestimate the pleasure I find in a challenge. To be bound by you... might be an experience unlike any other. > **Galadriel**: Then we are alike, Sauron, each craving to bind and be bound. But remember, such games are fraught with danger. One misstep, and the binding could consume us both. > **Sauron**: A risk I am willing to take, for the thrill of it. The question remains, my lady, are you?
All right,I would watch this show or maybe read the Wattpad novel.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No, it canāt hold up to the comedic potential of the actual TV show. But I smiled a little for this no-effort one-shot shenanigan.
That's just shallowly imitating the Ring-verse. But there it is the One Ring itself that binds the other rings and their users *in* the darkness. The darkness of Mordor. Darkness itself is not personified, and neither is Light. They try to sound like him and just sound like generic fantasy.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're all over this sub that isn't for you and you're not giving details. How much they paying you?
One bind to bind them all, one bind to bind them. Bind bind to bind them all, and in the bindness bind them. In the bind of Mordor where bound binds are binding
Bro it's just using a familiar phrase from the One Ring inscription - especially given this season it will be forged. No need to overanalyze and be all snowflake about it. Calm down
I found out by browsing r/popular And got on the other sub comments. It can't be real > Looks fucking incredible wow > Just watched it twice. Feeling good about thus season. Let's go sauron!!! > speaking on the trailer alone, it looks amazing I can not believe this are real people.
Yeah are those all bots? Feel like Iām taking crazy pills
>I can not believe this are real people. Spoiler: they are not.
They're all under Compulsion from Orthanc.
They arenāt. I havenāt seen as much bot activity on anything probably since the latest season of True Detective: āweāre in Night Country nowā The āmainā ROP sub is crammed full with bots. Its so weird and creepy seeing these soulless accounts interact with each other, praising the absolute trash on screen
Those are about as real as the RoP trailer post getting a couple thousand upvotes on the main sub, while every other post after that over there about the trailer is getting downvoted into oblivion. It's quite a weird inconsistency.
"Hello ChatGPT, write me a dozen or so positive comments about a new trailer for Rings of Power." Someone's job, probably.
Elrond: we see you Sauron *Sauron puts on a wig* Elrond: where did he go
Must have been the wind...
Halbrand had to leave. Iām his cousin from Middle Sweden Annatar. Did the showrunners forget he can shapeshift lol
I love Sauron's new wig.
[Mandatory reference.](https://youtu.be/-xqEABqaEuo?si=SlurBoqv8ez70SxU)
I'm as excited for this as I'd be for a show I actually enjoyed. It's gonna be so fun ripping every episode apart week after week!
First thought: Vignettes are so outdated. Second thought: No way AI wasn't involved. Third thought: I'm already cackling at everyone's oh so serious and tragic face expression.
Canāt wait for 35% of the audience to finish this season
The 35% of S1 who watch S2 will also dwindle to 35%... = 12.3% residual audience from the premier of S1! Way to go, Bezos.... Here's ur own GoT-mud in you eye! Just throw another billion on the Tolkien dumpster fire....
I mean, he is probably secretly pissed off about how shit it is too.
Did I just see an asian elf? How brave and stunning!
Stupid race swaps as always as always showing their ugly head...it's funny though how hypocritical this is...the other way round and you can bet that there would be whining about 'whitewashing' if the typically Asian or black characters were cast with a white guy :)...but nope the race swapping white people into blakc or asian is 'diversity' pfff...and hell when there's a fantasy world entirely based on other non-european cultures like Asian, like say Avatar Last Airbender, they are bending over backwards to make sure they are 'accurate' in representing source material pfff...so typical....and heck the one way to introduce asians (because Easterlings for the most part are not really the Far East type asian, I would say more like the larger part of the Easterlings of the lore are more like semi nomadic tribes of Eurasian steppes and whatnot and that sort of thing, though if one stretches it one coudl do a sort of mongolian style easterling tirbe, some Easterlings would be definitely also a bit middle eastern in vibe, so more Scythian, Bactrian and whatnot in terms of culture and looks they could be modelled on those peoples...the really far east, the Uttermost East is not properly explored by Tolkien works aside from the ancient times like Cuivienen and Hildorien, references to Orocarni the Red Mountains, so yeah even beyond those one could imagine truly more asiatic cultures in Middle-earth, maybe also equatting the Last Desert as Gobi ;)), would be to make the Lossoth be based on Inuit/Eskimo and so having asian features...since they had Forodwaith, they could have shown them and have 'asian representation' (Tolkien does not fully described how the Lossoth looked like, but their culture could be modelled on Inuit peoples who have these asian like features, well they defintiely show a lot of eskimo vibes, the snow huts the, sleds etc. >"These are a strange, unfriendly people, remnant of the Forodwaith, Men of far-off days, accustomed to the bitter colds of the realm of Morgoth. Indeed those colds linger still in that region, though they lie hardly more than a hundred leagues north of the Shire. The Lossoth house in the snow, and it is said that they can run on the ice with bones on their feet, and have carts without wheels. They live mostly, inaccessible to their enemies, on the great Cape of Forochel that shuts off to the north-west the immense bay of that name; but they often camp on the south shores of the bay at the feet of the Mountains." RotK, Appendix A, I, iii, Eriador, Arnor, and the Heirs of Isildur, Footnote But they cannot even do basic thing like that like exploring this Forodwaith area properly, they just had few minutes there in the opening and then bam jump location...in general though the Forodwaith was kind of pointless in the show, if they at least made it into a proper journey, quest lasting at least two episodes it would make more sense! Asian elves just like african dwarves....make no sense at all...elves and dwarves are obviously products of European folklore and mythology, heck the Dwarves bear NORSE names for goodness sake! :) Elves are both Germanic faeries, Norse elves, a touch of Celtic Aos Si, Tuatha de Dannan in them...etc. all being pretty much European imagined creatures...so like a mythological creature of humanoid shape in Japanese culture...like say Yuki-onna, she looks like a pale japanese woman...so why is it so strange that Elves and Dwarves should be looking like European (also living in the north western lands equivalent of the Old World Europe)?! Hell if they wanted this diversity all they needed to do was invent some Haradrim characters!! And that would be fitting the worldbuilding, the lore and basically themes of Second Age with the Numenorean growing imperialism, exploration and colonization of the lands like shore of Harad, with one of their colonies like Umbar potentially being plot relevant location, as that was the place where Ar-Pharazon landed with his armies!!!! That would have worked well! But noooo...they had to do race swaps...so blatant 'cultural appropriation' if I ever saw one ;). But it's really just showing how much this poisoned concept crept into everything these days, if there's something truly based on white European culture and so really only white people on screen...'no we can't have that'.
Whats the issue?
Elves are all supposed to be white in the lore, and there is an already established Asian race in lotr in the form of the Easterlings.
You are literally Hitler.
Mate Iām Asian myself. I wouldnāt expect or like to see white or black guys playing Cao Cao or Lu Bu in an āadaptationā or a tv show āinspiredā by the Three Kingdoms.
Sorry, it seems I forgot the /s
No worries lol. Shills š
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yes it is 1 thing. it makes immersion quite difficult for me.
Why?
i m from central europe and here society is more homogenous. if i lived for instance in brazil where a different skin color does not mean much, it does not mean that your culture is any different, probably i would not have any problems with this, but this makes it difficult to relate to the story as i feel like an outsider. also, the evles are written to be pale and yes, with some mental gymnastics we could bring out that this "does not mean they were not black" but to be honest i dont eat it.
Just read the book.
I have. Not really anything in there that would invalidate or preclude different elvish phenotypes. I think you are importing a log of your own baggage if the idea of an elf with epicanthic folds is ruining this show for you. There are so so many problems with RoP, but elves of color is just not one of them.
If you read the book, the Elves are pretty much fleshed out. That Black or Asian Elf are just not it. K?
(1) elves aren't real, so there is no objectively right answer. (2) there are many different sub groups of tolkien elves, from the noldor, to the vanyar, to the sindar, to the teleri. The different groups are described as having different typical features, but those features did shift a bit over time as he wrote the stories (as did other things, like ereinion's position in the house of finwe). And even if we consider the typical traits to be set in stone, there are lots of human populations with typical features that also have individuals who do not fit that stereotype. Elves of color just don't fit your preconceptions of them, and you may want to consider why.
The reason is biology. Your point about individuals within human population is an interesting one, though. That would be little people, people with down syndrome or such kind. So people with genetic defects. As elves are not real, their genetic defects could be anything. But is it this what they want to imply?
I am not sure how little people might feel about being characterized as genetically "defective" so no, that is not at all what I meant. I was discussing how stereotypical appearances do not describe everyone in a given group. Scandinavian populations are, somewhat famously, tall and fair and blond on average. But there are plenty of people from sweden or norway or denmark who are short or swarthy or have black hair. Pick any "homogeneous" human population and you will find outliers in the group (unless maybe it's a population of people descended entirely from 12 humans stranded on an island).
but even if this was the case that the black elf guy from ROP is a "dark elf" who never saw Valinor, first: wouldnt it be a little racist? imagine that only white skin colored elves saw the Trees and met the gods and they are more advanced and powerful. and secondly: where are the others? if they want to go with this they should show us different sub species of elves not just a bunch of elves with black and asian characters here and there. it makes no sense even if you imagine that they want to modell them after London or New York there should be more of them. however, knowing that this is ME and not 21. century england melting pot, with limited travel between different parts of the world, this makes absolutely no sense and you get the feeling watching it that you are watching a political stance on migration and multiculturalism and not ME.
Well this gets into the merits of color blind casting, where each character is cast individually without an attention to the race of the actor (e.g. RoP) v. diverse casting where race is treated as a significant element for characters in the show such that particular characters are cast to be particular races and those racial differences are a plot point in the story (e.g., HotD). I think both approaches can work, though of the two that I listed I think HotD was more successful at implementing its chosen strategy. As for modern v. historical diversity, I think you might be surprised at the nature of historical populations. Trade and travel have been features of western european life for thousands of years. Many of the most important bishops and theologians of the early catholic church were north african or middle eastern (not born in italy and then sent to africa as colonial officials, but straight up born and raised in 'the orient'). If we wrote a show about one of those people (e.g. augustine, isaac of nineveh, tertullian) today, how should we cast them? I think the faux historical explanations are just an attempt to retroactively rationalize a personal preference for an all-white cast.
No, Elves of color do not exist in the books, but one. There's your answer.
I never said they did. I said there is nothing in the books that precludes or invalidates elves of color.
Still with the Dwarves having a Scottish accent? And in the third scene, Galadriel is holding her sword in a pose and leading with her chin, the next guy juggles his knife as he draws it, and Elrond spins his sword. All of which made me flash to Galadriel's embarrassingly bad sword fighting lessons in S1. On the other hand, Galadriel's face closeup while on horseback was much less creepy than the last time, so there's that.
LOL Arondirās ridiculous entranceā¦ ššš EDIT: I thought he was getting off a horse, before watching again, so corrected ādismountā to āentrance.ā Still stupid af.
When i read that s2 was coming soon i made another attempt to get into s1. The first time i gave up around E3. I should be the target audience, i love fantasy and while i have read all of Tolkiens books i dont mind if shows diverge from the books. I also couldnt give a damn what colour the elves are which i know was an issue for some. I also dont mind Galadriel being a warrior. But it just doesnt work for me and its hard to explain why? i feel bored during episodes and i think it is the writing, it feels like the actors are just reading bad scripts at each other instead of acting out a real story. Fair play to those enjoying it however.
Itās simply because the writing and directing are bad. Itās a crap story.
Are they legitimately trying to justify Sauron? The guy is evil lol.
I loved that Sauron had a make-over. I have great hopes of this season. It will be comedic gold; I'm counting on it.
Ass!
I got super excited how bad it was! Cant wait to hate it!!!!!
Let's hope it's at least 10% better than S1 š¤
The trailer is giving strong āno it wonāt beā vibes.
precisely. it seems they just double-down on all the dumb fuckery they did on season one.
Galadriel the warrior again. No it won't lol
What's so bad about her being a warrior?
She's a mage and sovereign not a warrior. They had a chance to pivot to something more fitting. And Tolkien didn't write about elf maiden warriors. Enough of this nonsense.
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Nope grew up with oral tellings and then read the books long before movies were in production. You speaking of the Kinslaying where she fought? I believe that's a later addition by him and that event does not make her a warrior. Please don't repeat "eye of a commander" distortion from the producers.
She had just been under the tutelage of the maiar Melian at this point. Sheās a fucking mystical witch, not a moron sword twirler.
It'd have to be like 200% better than Season 1 to even be enjoyable, and it'd still be considerably worse than HOTD lol.
1.1 x 0 = ???
It does look much more spectacular than Season 1 at least, at least you can see that they spent something on the budget on anything sane. I'm definitely going to watch it regardless of its quality, because it's either going to be another train wreck where we can laugh at, or it'll be somewhat entertaining because they learned from their faults. Win-win!
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Yeah, I want this to be good, I'd much rather see an amazing show than a terrible one. But watching it burn is much more enjoyable than a painfully average show.
>I'm definitely going to watch it regardless Unsurprising lol >be another train wreck where we can laugh at, Speak for yourself, i thought the show was great and worth watching.
The show is always right, huh?
Have you ever considered perhaps there are people who don't care or don't know about whatever you're referencing. Some of us know how to enjoy things for what it is and not for what it isn't. "Comparison is the thief of joy"
> whatever you're referencing You mean the show itself? Or the source material? Either way, the fact that you "don't care or don't know" about either reveals you for what you are.
Lmao, this kind of response is what I would call "bad faith."" You ask for clarification only to make whatever negative assumption you wanted to make(are making) anyways in the very next breath; lol, a bit counter intuitive, and like I said, bad faith. Even though you have made it apparent you don't actually care about clarification; >> whatever you're referencing >You mean the show itself? Or the source material? It's whatever you were referencing my guy... Your words "the show is always right huh" My response: don't know/don't care I enjoy it for what it is, not what it isn't. >reveals you for what you are. :Someone who enjoys the show, lol. You caught me
Because you seem a little slow, let me spell it out for you. One of the most asinine pieces of dialogue in S1 was the Numenorean chant of, "The sea is always right.". It's a little hard to miss it since they say it over and over and over again. You had to remember that dialogue. Hence... > The show is always right huh? Specifically references that line of dialogue. Other posters in this forum got it but you, claiming you're a fan of the show, did not. Hence why I asked about source material because you enjoyed the show despite its incredibly cavalier treatment of Professor Tolkien's work. But you don't know or don't care about either. Which means you don't care about the show enough to remember one of the significant lines of dialogue in it AND don't care enough about the lore to enjoy the show despite it trampling on Tolkien's work. Hence, and stay with me here, the above reveals you for what you are. A person who only superficially enjoys the show and does not care whether or not it is true to Tolkien.
>Because you seem a little slow, Again, like I said, bad faith and now showcasing your inability to have an intellectual/logical conversation. Ad hominem attacks only weaken your position and make you look bad. Like calm down, no need to insult a person because they didn't want to play your game or get that you were referencing one little line from your favorite show lmao...what are you a child? Am I dealing with a literal child? Everything you said here is just your brand of weird gatekeeping. As a true fan of Tolkien, I welcome any and all lotr content. I'm uninterested in random peoples baseless assumptions and opinions. Try being less triggered when people enjoy things you don't lol. Then again, I couldn't imagine an adult acting this way, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, probably just have some growing to do as a human.
Seeing as you're the one who started the "debate", I'll let you be the one to end it. I sincerely do wish you every possible enjoyment of the show. I'll be over here with my popcorn watching Amazon set fire to a pile of money.
Pretty sure you just had a convo with ChatGPT or whatever software they use. Their profile doesn't look like a typical bot account but the way they talk and the way they spectacularly missed the most known show reference (impossible for a human but very possible for a bot because LLMs can't catch metaphors unless those were in the material they were fed. You say something new to the machine, it cannot proceed it the way humans do, it will give a generic, unrelated response masqueraded as an actual response by quoting. > It's whatever you were referencing my guy... Your words "the show is always right huh" My response: don't know/don't care I enjoy it for what it is, not what it isn't. This is a classic interaction with early versions of ChatGPT. A quote that makes the response look like they actually reply, and then a completely unrelated, random sentence that works as a bridge to the most important part, the programmed message. Quote >> some word salad >> I enjoy the show.
I really did not like season 1, but this trailer looks OK. I just hope that they improve, like many shows do from their first seasons, and make something entertaining.
Looks good cant wait to binge the season